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Yasukuni Shrine a symbol of haunting wartime legacy

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By Linda Sieg

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Yasukuni is in Japan. China and Korea have no say in the matter.

-18 ( +25 / -43 )

Yasukuni, Japans holy ground. Where heroes go to rest and where the nation prays for our fallen heroes.

-21 ( +24 / -45 )

As what the poster above me said, it's in Japan and is a Japanese historical shrine. If every monument, landmark and event that would remind the people of the historical animosities our ancestors did in the past, we would probably have to destroy a lot of the world's historical sites, rewrite a lot of household terms, sayings and shows, and ban certain festivals from being celebrated. Would that change what people did? No. Would it remind the people of what happened in the past and the possibly bad things they shouldn't replicate? Probably. It's already in history, let's live with it. As someone who has grandparents that had first hand experience of the hardships under Japanese occupation, I also understand where South Korea, China and the rest of Japan's wartime victims are saying, but how about we move forward and bury the hatchet. Remembering history is great, but the world needs to move on.

1 ( +22 / -21 )

Been there it was a vile and disgusting place that pathetically tried to justify Japan's brutal occupation of neighbors then at the same time play the sympathy card. It's a stain on modern Japan.

19 ( +41 / -22 )

Where heroes go to rest

@Orac - Yes, but war criminals are not heroes and should not be worshipped. This is a sacred place to remember those that have fallen in the war, but I personally don't think it's a place for war criminals to rest. These criminals got away with committing some truly disgusting actions and deserve no place at a beautiful place like Yasukuni shrine.

31 ( +41 / -10 )

China and South Korea are the ones who have made the Yasukuni Shrine a legacy of WWII as part of their plan to damage the US-JPN alliance. China (PRC) did not even exist until 3 years after WWII ended, and South Korea had 240,000 Korean men serving in the Imperial Japanese Military, the vast majority willingly, killing and committing war crimes against allied POWs.

Yet the Unites States, UK, Australia, etc who fought and defeated Imperial Japan do not have a problem with Yasukuni. Lieutenant General Wallace Gregson of the 3rd Marine Division visited Yasukuni on April 26, 2001. The late former President Lee Teng-hui of Taiwan (Republic of China) which actually fought Imperial Japan visited Yasukuni on October 27, 2007.

For the Japanese, Yasukuni enshrines 2,466,532 souls going back to civil wars in the 1800s.

-11 ( +21 / -32 )

Boring typical propaganda/ misconception article.

The truth is,

China and Korea didn't have any problem with Yasukuni before 1985. Prior to that, every Jpn minister visited Yasukuni, Then, it all started after Japanese lefty brainwashed and talked China and Korea into being against it.

Tojo??

Tojo was not even in Japanese cabinet when Japan annexed Korea and had the battle with KMT in China .

He has nothing to with China and Korea. The prime minister at that time was Fumimaro Konoe who is not honored in Yasukuni. Tojo is responsible for the pacific war against the US.

Of course, there should be an argument about who should/should not be honored there but that does not mean you can deny the entire shrine, which has been there since 1869 throughout Russia-Japan war and WW1 honoring Koreans, Taiwanese, and animals(military horse/bird/dog), as well.

-5 ( +20 / -25 )

Yasukuni is in Japan. China and Korea have no say in the matter.

They keep saying something, often a couple of times a year. It seems they do have a say.

12 ( +25 / -13 )

CrickyToday  04:23 pm JST

Been there it was a vile and disgusting place that pathetically tried to justify Japan's brutal occupation of neighbors then at the same time play the sympathy card. It's a stain on modern Japan.

I've been there too and the only "justification" as you call it I saw were specific references to British colonization in Asia, including the taking of Hong Kong after the Opium Wars. Hate Japan much?

-9 ( +20 / -29 )

I respect our emperors for no longer visiting the shrine. I think that's a highly diplomatic move to pay respect to nations that were victims of the war.

I've been here since I was a kid and it's a beautiful place no doubt. But personally, I don't think war criminals have a place in this sacred place. I've come to later realise that some of the history facts that you'll see in the museum have been watered down as well.

Whilst it may stand as a painful memory for Korea and China, I hope it also stands as a dark reminder of the consequences of war.

21 ( +26 / -5 )

Many Japanese premiers visited Yasukuni after the war, but refrained from saying it was in an official capacity, until Aug. 15 1985, when Yasuhiro Nakasone made an official visit.

The move, on the 40th anniversary of the war's end, drew harsh criticism from China. Nakasone did not go again.

The controversy is more recent-born. What had China and Korea not reacted at ll for four decades since the war end, prior to the 1985 visit? "A-class" leaders were enshrined in 1975, again no response was made from these neighbors.

When it comes to their criticism on Japan's wartime, the purpose is not necessarily innocent or sincere. It is politically motivated.

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

It's a beautiful shrine, but the museum whitewashes Japan's responsibility for and actions in the war. Interesting place to visit and observe - there are some characters there.

12 ( +23 / -11 )

The attached so called museum is nothing more than a justification of atrocities by not mentioning them at all. This stupid idea that Japan somehow freed the locals from European colonial rule, to be replaced with Imperial brutality just doesn't make sence. The whole place is nothing more than a feel good area for locals who don't feel good.

11 ( +25 / -14 )

Japan has every right to remember its war dead. Having visited Yasukuni shrine though and the attached museum, I don't think it's the right place.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Boring...

From my experience, those against Yasukuni, usually refuse to listen to opponents say or learn more detail about it.

I show you two Yasukuni Honored figures.

[1] Korean price,Yi U, 李鍝

His grand father is Korean Emperor Gojong. He was killed with A-bomb in Hiroshima.

He was well respected by Japanese people and his guard Hiroshi (吉成 弘) committed suicide on account of not being able to save Prince. Prince funeral was held even at the time Japan was in chaos losing a war.

[2] Yousuke Matsuoka

Japan was allied with Germany, but Japan was against antisemitism.

Yousuke Matsuoka, helped Jewish people to move/live in Manchuria under Japanese rule, and talked and

promised them Japan would not let Nazi harm them.

Matsuoka was arrested after a war as an A-class criminal, and after his death he was honored in Yasukuni.

Try search,

Fugu plan

Book, "Under the shahow of rising sun",  Meron Medzini

-11 ( +12 / -23 )

Do people remember a pro wrestler Great Togo? He was an American born Nisei pro wrestler. He played a role of a heel or a villain. He intentionally named him "Great Tojo" to attract attentions of Americans not long after the war. He became very popular as a heel. But he had to change his name soon to Great Togo. He was stabbed by a fan who hated him at the stadium. Togo was a hero admiral of the imperial navy defeating Russia. It was a good old days. As a child, I was impressed with American society which allowed a pro wrestler naming him "Great Tojo." I loved and still love Americans who understand sense of humor.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Yasukuni,

Victimhood at its most lucid.

Whitewashing anything unpleasant under the carpet.

16 ( +25 / -9 )

OssanAmericaToday  04:40 pm JST

China and South Korea are the ones who have made the Yasukuni Shrine a legacy of WWII

I always thought the people who made it a political issue were the priests related to WWII military leaders who decided to enshrine the war criminals without telling anyone until afterwards.

16 ( +25 / -9 )

Pro-Japan posters will always jump to the defense of the grotesque abomination that is Yasukuni, saying there are only a handful of war criminals enshrined there, out of millions.

But they omit the fact that there are in fact more than a thousand war criminals enshrined, of which 14 are class A war criminals.

In all, about 5,700 Japanese were charged in Classes B and C before the international war crimes tribunal in Tokyo. Almost 1,000 were executed. Others were tried and executed by the Communist Chinese and by the Soviet Union. It's these men whose presence at Yasukuni offends Japan's neighbors, including 14 Class A criminals.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-12-26/why-yasukuni-shrine-so-controversial

13 ( +23 / -10 )

 The late former President Lee Teng-hui of Taiwan (Republic of China) which actually fought Imperial Japan visited Yasukuni on October 27, 2007.

roc fought against imperial japan.

lee fought as iwasato masao, for imperial japan.

lee's elder brother also fought for imperial japan and died, and his name is listed in the shrine. his visit was for his brother.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It should be protected as a monument to how little thinking in the ruling party has changed in the past century and a half. What could have been the Meiji Revolution and the beginnings of a democracy based on Enlightenment values was instead the Meiji Restoration, and a doubling down on the mistakes of Japan's past centuries that kept the old aristocracy - whose decedents are still in power - ascendant...

3 ( +6 / -3 )

My grandfather a medic and his brother were taken captive by thr IJF, my grandfather was a broken man after, he seldom talked and would sit in the backyard crying. He until his last hide food under his bed. His brother was beaten to death in Thailand he was too sick and starved to stand up. And was beaten to death for it. Put that in Yashcuni as a balanced view.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

"Japan was allied with Germany, but Japan was against antisemitism." Right, just like Japan's military adventurism in Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria and elsewhere was intended not to expand it's colonial reach and obtain raw materials for expanding the empire, but to liberate their poor Asian brothers from the oppressive yoke of Western occupation...

9 ( +13 / -4 )

I've been there too and the only "justification" as you call it I saw were specific references to British colonization in Asia, including the taking of Hong Kong after the Opium Wars.

@Ossan - Wow, for even you to admit Yasukuni displays certain justifications for their warmongering past, it must be full to the brim with revisionist propaganda.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

If Shinto turns war criminals into god's it's not much different than the teachings of modern day Isis. I'm surprised to hear that Japan encourages it's people to act brutally to attain spiritual rewards.

Secular peaceful Japan should forcefully remove the bodies of the war criminals from the Yasukuni shrine and bury them at sea at a secret location. Then the shrine can be redevoted to commemorate all war dead in all wars in all places.

Japan should also build something similar to Germany's peace center constructed in Berlin on the site of the former Gestapo HQ and admit to the war crimes conducted by their ancestors. Then finally maybe we can all move on.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Yasukuni is a wonderful place. I visit it at least once a year. Particularly I like to visit in early January, they have very lovely exhibitions of ema from dozens of shrines across all Japan, exhibitions of stickers from many sake brands, and ikebana. Very festive New Year atmosphere.

Chinese and South Korean cries about Yasukuni are pathetic. They use the subject just as a conventional tool to put political pressure on Japan, to extract concessions.

Leave Yasukuni alone. Every country needs a place to honor its fallen soldiers. USA, UK or France have their memorials to their wars and soldiers, but nobody tell them "hey, Brits, stop it, your soldiers killed countless Africans, Chinese and Indians during your brutal colonial conquests", or "French, your soldiers are criminals too, they butchered Africans, Vietnamese and Algerians". Every country has ugly pages in its history. Japan was punished for its crimes. Some countries were not.

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

Asakaze your display of nationalism is as alarming as it is disgraceful unbeknownst to you it's a blight on the education you received. To somehow make/ say a compound that includes a meausum that takes the most bizarre version of historical fact as wonderful...it's a disgraceful place and has no relevance in a civilised world. But as it celebrates disgraceful behaviour I will except as that a celebration of wonderful brutality depraved actions that should never be forgotten.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

Cricky, it's not nationalism, it's common sense. And your self-righteousness is even more alarming and disgraceful.

To somehow make/ say a compound that includes a meausum that takes the most bizarre version of historical fact

I visited the Army Museum in London, long time ago I was at Les Invalides in Paris. Do you think that both museums are much different in concept from Yushukan at Yasukuni? Glory to the military heritage of one's own country, remembrance to those who fought and died. Why for U.K. and France it's OK, but for Japan is horrendous?

-10 ( +8 / -18 )

I go every year because I like museums. There is a human torpedo, Kaiten. When I’m there I don’t think about war criminals or the Yasukuni controversy. Reading the letters of 20 year olds to their wives or parents saddens me to think how little choice they had in this collective society. Of course if I visit a museum dedicated to victims of the Japanese army’s atrocities, it will be sad as well. These are young people who are now dancing on Tik Tok and enjoying making pranking videos. I’m happy for them.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

I am a follower of both神道and 浄土真宗 a shrine and temples are place of respect. Yes some people in wars do negative things during war but there were also loved ones who lost their lives and heros of other wars. When I went to Tokyo and visited it it was nice and felt no negative energy.

My grandfather also fought the Russians and bairly survived in the second world war to live a normal life afterwards. He was just a soldier fighting for his country and to get back to his family.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

AsakazeToday  07:02 pm JST

Chinese and South Korean cries about Yasukuni are pathetic. They use the subject just as a conventional tool to put political pressure on Japan, to extract concessions.

Perhaps they wouldn't make a fuss if Japanese politicians stopped using shrine visits to drum up support among their right-wing constituents.

Leave Yasukuni alone. Every country needs a place to honor its fallen soldiers.

Japan does have publicly-owned secular facilities for that, doesn't it?

USA, UK or France have their memorials to their wars and soldiers, but nobody tell them "hey, Brits, stop it, your soldiers killed countless Africans, Chinese and Indians during your brutal colonial conquests", or "French, your soldiers are criminals too, they butchered Africans, Vietnamese and Algerians". Every country has ugly pages in its history. Japan was punished for its crimes. 

Crimes which its leaders routinely deny ever took place, probably because they'd rather get votes and money from right-wing fanatics than bullets, death threats and severed fingers in their mailboxes.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Imagine that Merkel in Germany will go to ceremony to hour "german heroes" from SS or wehrmacht who killed millions of Slavs Jews and other nationals in VW2.

Hard to imagine that?

Yes fact is Japan was agressor in East Asia and Pacific a japanese armed forces committed many atrocities against Chinese etc.

Question is WHY to "honour" these "heroes"?

Why DOUBLE STANDARD?

4 ( +12 / -8 )

It's a nice photo, ruined by the one priest who was too undisciplined to just focus on his worship.

It's one thing to have your eye caught, but quite another to cock your head to one side and glare at a camera.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yasukuni shrine is Japanese.

It has many ancient and other memorials and is in general to Honor the Dead. Who fought for Japan.

Since in these times local traditions are now international, we should perhaps reassess how this is interpreted internationally.

I am Japanese American. It does not bother me. If it upsets our neighbors so much, then I want dialogue.

If all come together with sincerity, I think it can be done.

If it is nationalist hurling of rocks, then Japan and Korea and China and others will simply USE issues to complain.

History will tell and show how this played out.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Lets be straight too. If you on the winners side, you will be a hero, and re write history.

When modern powerful nations commit war crimes, we don’t pay for it.

We usually don’t even let it be called anything like such.

Think about it

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

“Been there it was a vile and disgusting place that pathetically tried to justify Japan's brutal occupation of neighbors then at the same time play the sympathy card. It's a stain on modern Japan.”

Agreed

5 ( +9 / -4 )

MatejToday  09:00 pm JST

Imagine that Merkel in Germany will go to ceremony to hour "german heroes" from SS or wehrmacht who killed millions of Slavs Jews and other nationals in VW2.

Hard to imagine that?

Yes fact is Japan was agressor in East Asia and Pacific a japanese armed forces committed many atrocities against Chinese etc.

Question is WHY to "honour" these "heroes"?

Why DOUBLE STANDARD?

After WW2 the US decided it was more politically expedient to let lots of Japan's wartime leaders out of jail to help them in the Cold War than to have them all hanged or shot, and then funneled election campaign funds to them through the CIA while they brazenly peddled historical revisionism, because however bad it was letting Japan turn communist was deemed to be worse.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

It amazes me how the winners of wars get to choose who are the war criminals. The Japanese bomb military installations and we incinerate their cities -- did I miss a meeting?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Simon Foston

Perhaps they wouldn't make a fuss if Japanese politicians stopped using shrine visits to drum up support among their right-wing constituents

If you had any idea of Japanese politics you'd know that right-wing sentiments are not popular in Japan. Guys in black vans with battle flags can be noisy, but they are fringe groups. Can you name even one "right-wing constituency"?

Japan does have publicly-owned secular facilities for that, doesn't it?

Where, exactly?

Crimes which its leaders routinely deny ever took place

Name a couple of Japanese leaders who "routenely deny / denied".

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Tojo and the others were secretly elevated to the status of gods at the shrine in a solemn ceremony that year

Others have suggested dropping the Class-A war criminals from the list of those honored, but shrine officials say that is impossible.

I hear this 'impossible' word quite a lot in Japan. 無理. I've heard it when I've asked for some extra pickle on my burger. It usually means 'unwilling'.

I suggest dropping the shrine officials who claim it is impossible and find someone who can do it with a few waves of his haraigushi stick. It's embarrassing that Japan still honours genocidal maniacs.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Asakaze - right wing elements are common in Japanese politics / society. Ultra conservative Nippon Kaigi has 10,000s of members including prime minister Abe and most of the cabinet. The uyoku as you stated are extreme fringe and not so huge in numbers - but not so the far right wing.

And re public owned secular facilities - well I'm surprised by your ignorance about the existence of Chidorigafuchi which is even mentioned in the article. This cemetery was established by the govt.

And re politicians - esp leaders - denying crimes took place. Well I'll just have to let you research that one. The current leader and his deputy for one have denied certain war crimes. It's well reported.

And as many have stated - it was the sly enshrinement of the class A war criminals - technically inappropriate as they didn't die while on duty - that has caused most of the controversy. If they weren't enshrined for the purpose of appealing to Nippon Kaigi et al, then the controversy would be far less.

And strange how the rightists rarely make comments about how successive emperors refuse to go there, because of the war criminals deified as martyrs. You'd the emperors actions would signify somethings amiss - but no, the hard heads just keep on keeping on.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

It amazes me how the winners of wars get to choose who are the war criminals.

It all started with the insane Tokyo trial. Just by looking at General Yamashitas trial, it doesn’t take many brain cells to realise that it wasn’t a fair trial. I do think they should remove the “war criminals” and enshrine them elsewhere however, just to see what China and Korea will come up with next.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Adding that I did not only mean the Tokyo trial (e.g. Yamashita went to US Supreme Court in the end).

Revenge driven trials were common unfortunately.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

AsakazeToday  10:04 pm JST

If you had any idea of...

I am well aware that right-wing politicians don't actually need to be popular to get into power. Do you have any idea why that is?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

It is their right to honor their war dead, something the haters continue to ignore.

Honoring war dead doesn't mean honoring war criminals.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

@browny1

Ultra conservative Nippon Kaigi

You don't see a difference between "conservative" and "right-wing"? Educate yourself before writing on the subject.

The uyoku as you stated are extreme fringe and not so huge in numbers - but not so the far right wing

The worg Uyoku means "right wing". You contradict yourself in one sentence.

I'm surprised by your ignorance about the existence of Chidorigafuchi

I'm surprised by your ignorance, you even don't know that Chidorigafuchi is dedicated to those who died during WWII only. Yasukuni is dedicated to those who died in ALL wars since Meiji. I hope you can comprehend the difference.

Well I'll just have to let you research that one

If a poster claims something it's up to him to support his claim with facts. So I'll wait the results of painstaking research of Simon Foston.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

@Kuruki, there are no remains of any war criminals at Yasukuni Shrine. After being executed and cremated their remains were dumped into Tokyo Bay. In Shinto people are forgiven for their misdeeds while alive. It is very different from the Wests Christian religion where criminals after their death go to hades. It is their kami that is interned there and that is their souls. This is a private shrine and it would be interference in their religious right to dictate terms to them.

FYI I am a member of Peters church or the Mother Church. I am Roman Catholic and I have enough tolerance to let them worship as they see fit.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

This Cricky guy has no clue what they are talking about.

Yasukuni is a fantastic shrine and the history there is amazing, the museum is also incredible I make sure I visit that shrine daily when Im in Japan.

The only down side is that the tiles are very white and its blinding in summer.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

"Yasukuni, Japans holy ground. Where heroes go to rest and where the nation prays for our fallen heroes."

Your heros are our convicted war criminals. German leaders do not go to pray at the graves of their WWII butchers. Instead they lay wreaths and pray at the sites of some of their Nazi predecessors worst atrocities, atoning for a past that in many cases occurred before they were born. They pray for the souls of those the Germans killed, not for the killers as the Japanese do. If you cannot understand that important difference you will never understand why Japan is still not trusted by her neighbors and why, as long as those 12 Class A war criminals remain interred there Japan will be open for continued harsh criticism.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

"It is their right to honor their war dead, something the haters continue to ignore.

Honoring war dead doesn't mean honoring war criminals."

Twelve Class A war criminals from WWII were dug up and reburied there in 1975. They are indeed honoring war criminals there and it is detestable.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

"After WW2 the US decided it was more politically expedient to let lots of Japan's wartime leaders out of jail to help them in the Cold War than to have them all hanged or shot, and then funneled election campaign funds to them through the CIA while they brazenly peddled historical revisionism, because however bad it was letting Japan turn communist was deemed to be worse."

The US did something similar in Germany but in both cases actual war criminals were not released.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"I visited the Army Museum in London, long time ago I was at Les Invalides in Paris. Do you think that both museums are much different in concept from Yushukan at Yasukuni? Glory to the military heritage of one's own country, remembrance to those who fought and died. Why for U.K. and France it's OK, but for Japan is horrendous?"

Are the French and British museums memorializing convicted war criminals? Do you see the very real difference between them and the Japanese? Visit Manzanar sometime. It's not that far from LA. Maybe 3 1/2 hours north of LAX traffic permitting. The US at least also memorializes its worst mistakes.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I believe the Yasukuni Shrine is OK in itself. To honor the war dead is always a natural and good thing to do. But to elevate Class-A war criminals enshrined there to God-status is despicable. It would've been like Germany made Hitler and his co-workers Gods. It's wrong, and it definitely sends the wrong message.

Why do something that would cause resentment in the rest of Asia? Of course the people of Europe would react negatively if Germany made Hitler a God for instance. God-status should be granted to people of good deeds, not people who wage wars of aggression and bring about a lot of death.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Every country deserves to have a memorial for its war dead. However, when they start using the memorial to worship war criminals as gods there are problems. The fact that these WW2 criminals were only added to the shrine in the 80’s shows that it was only done to antagonize the victims of Japan’s imperial rule in Asia. If the tributes to these criminals were removed their would be no problem. The fact they are there and considered to be gods is just a middle finger to those who suffered through WW2.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

The names of 21,181 Koreans, conscripted and forced to participate in the war, have been engraved on stones at Yaukuni since 1959, according to Japan's Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare. There was no attempt by Yasukuni to accommodate the wishes of the Koreans' families before "enshrining" them in Yasukuni. Tokyo District Court, after deliberating (delaying) for over five years, ruled in 2018 against 27 families requesting the removal of the names of their family members from Yasukuni.

Yasukuni is toxic; it should be replaced with a secular alternative.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Bruce ChatwinToday  06:56 am JST

Yasukuni is toxic; it should be replaced with a secular alternative.

So it should. That will never happen, though - it would have to be debated in the Diet and the right-wing nationalist crowd would easily kill the motion.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It seems that many here do not understand the historical meaning of Yasukuni. It was at the center of the Kokka Shinto (State Shinto), which was again an important element of Japanese ultra-nationalism. With this religion people were indoctrinated, you could say brainwashed. In this respect, this religion can be compared to radical Islam because it promised the fighters to die as martyrs. Japanese ultra-nationalism can be compared to that of Nazi Germany maybe even more radical. The Nazis first had to create the Germanic myth; in Japan they simply used the indigenous religion. This indoctrination led to the cruel behavior of the Japanese soldiers in Asia. What would people say if there was still a symbol of Nazi indoctrination in Germany?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

So it should. That will never happen, though - it would have to be debated in the Diet and the right-wing nationalist crowd would easily kill the motion.

Yes, you're right. Nippon Kaigi, aka the LDP, would kill the motion.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Asakaze thank you for your reply.

Your 1st point re educating myself on the terms conservative & right wing. Thanks for pointing out that. If it's nitpicking the nuance of terms that upsets you I'll gladly change my phrase to "Right wing Nippon Kaigi". Good.

And your 2nd point re Uyoku and far right wing. It's obvious to any learned reader that I was simply using the terms to differentiate between the two ie Uyoku has a history of extremism, violence, harassment, intimidation and uses physical presence to do such. On the contrary there are far right leaning group who don't follow these aggressive tactics - eg the afore mentioned Nippon Kaigi. I can't recall them demonstrating loudly, brashly in the streets with blaring martial music & hate filled propaganda. Maybe I've missed that. Got it?

And your 3rd point re Chidorigafuchi. Of course I know what the cemetery is - rofl. You said "where is a public owned secular facility?" in response to simon fs question. You didn't specify, so I offered the case of Chidorigafuchi as a matter-of-fact example. And in addition it has been proposed to be turned into a National Wartime Cemetery to commemorate the deaths of all Japanese persons killed in war. By doing so would allow all people to pray for the souls of the deceased in a non-secular setting. This would go a long way to solving the current difficult situation.

Many would like to do this, but probably it won't happen because of the afore mentioned intimidation and threatening actions of the Uyoku would stifle debate and action.

And your 4th point re politicians denying war crimes - well as life is too short to link to the 100s+ of articles existing a 2 second search turned 1 up for starters.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/japans-defense-minister-courts-controversy-refuses-acknowledge-war/story?id=41116766

Lest we Forget.

Thanks.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Nah, it's just a symbol of plain old hatred, bigotry, and fascism.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Once you enter the halls of Valhalla and dine with the Valkyries, there is no going back.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cricky watches a bunch of Merchant-Ivory films and thinks the British Empire committed no atrocities in Africa, India or China. It was all roses and Kipling and stuff.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

However, having said the above, I do think the country needs a secular Tomb of the Unknowns to honor their dead.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

knightsofraidenToday  12:11 pm JST

Once you enter the halls of Valhalla and dine with the Valkyries, there is no going back.

I don't think Yasukuni has any Valkyries - I believe the idea is that your soul is mystically fused together with all the other souls there, including those of the military top brass who got you killed in their stupid, pointless war, everyone's crimes are supposedly all forgiven but if the priests are wrong about that you're trapped with thousands of murdering psychopaths because they can't de-enshrine you. Enjoy.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I was wondering what all the articles about uyoku, yasukuni and other wonderful right wing Nippon topics was all about but then I forgot...its August.

There is a stone lantern at that place with some interesting carvings on it, like the soldiers fighting and surrendering. Thats about the only thing I found worthwhile there. A very dark and alternative view of history atmosphere about it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Been there it was a vile and disgusting place that pathetically tried to justify Japan's brutal occupation of neighbors then at the same time play the sympathy card. It's a stain on modern Japan.”

My experience exactly.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It's a dump. Knock it down.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Ben,

You go to the shrine daily when in Japan?

Bizarre

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Yet I never saw Chinese, Koreans, White people in Japan actually protest there. cowards

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

So is the Arlington National Cemetery in the US and nobody complains about it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Simon Foston

I am well aware that right-wing politicians don't actually need to be popular to get into power. Do you have any idea why that is?

Instead of abstract and pointless political discussions name even one "right-wing constituency" that exist in Japan as you claim.

@Desert Tortoise

Are the French and British museums memorializing convicted war criminals? Do you see the very real difference between them and the Japanese?

War criminals - yes, just not convicted. Do you think that British and French generals who built empires in Africa and Asia, their troops during colonial campaigns behaved better then Japanese? Seriously? The only real difference is that Japan lost the war and was punished for its crimes. UK and France lost their empires but were lucky to slip away unpunished. That's all, otherwise no difference.

@browny1

Thank you for a detailed reply. Frankly, your lengthy description of the difference between right-wing and conservative was not necessary, I'm aware of the political situation in Japan. And your tendency to paint everything as right-wing is too escessive. Can I call organizations like Heritage Foundation in the U.S. right-wing? My point: in the West there are a lot of powerful organizations that are as right-wing as Nippon Kaigi. Got it?

I'm glad you are aware about Chidorigafuchi. About the idea to turn into "National Wartime Cemetery to commemorate the deaths of all Japanese persons killed in war": if that decision is made, then it's fine. But this decision must be made without pressure from noisy crowds abroad.

And your link about Inada was really funny. She declined to go into details about the war, so? Where is "systematic denying"? And have a thought about this: how a president of the USA (any) would react if asked about American crimes in annihilation of dozens of Native tribes or during the war in Vietnam, how any U.K. prime minister would react if asked about British crimes during the colonization of India or the Opium wars?

Regards

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Always find it interesting that China repeatedly warns other nations to stop meddling in its internal affairs and yet it has no problem poking its nose in to the Yasukuni issue over and over again!

Could you imagine if Japan was to raise concern about the issue of Mao and his tomb and how its an affront to all those that died under his leadership. The outrage that would cause!

Yes the situation is not ideal at the Shrine but, japan is hardly alone in having controversial memorials, Stalin is interned in the Kremlin Wall, and he was hardly a saint and puts what Japan did in Asia to shame with his ethnic cleansing! Yet Russia has no intention of removing him. The UK has memorials all over the place to those responsible for war crimes in Africa, yet haven't been removed, and lets not get started on the issue of memorials to those American leaders involved in the forced removals of Native Americans.

It a classic example of hypocrisy form other nations and i don't blame Japan in refusing to budge on the issue, especially as no one else has shown any intention of acting out a similar demand, to what they are asking Japan to do.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"War criminals - yes, just not convicted. Do you think that British and French generals who built empires in Africa and Asia, their troops during colonial campaigns behaved better then Japanese? Seriously? The only real difference is that Japan lost the war and was punished for its crimes. UK and France lost their empires but were lucky to slip away unpunished. That's all, otherwise no difference."

We Americans know a few things about the barbarities of the British ! We suffered under British kings too and fought a nasty little revolution to be freed from their thieving and butchery. However the UK today does not whitewash its history in the manner of the Japanese. You know your nation's history good and bad. Japanese kids are not taught the bad.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"Always find it interesting that China repeatedly warns other nations to stop meddling in its internal affairs and yet it has no problem poking its nose in to the Yasukuni issue over and over again!"

Even better, point out to the Chinese that Mao killed an order of magnitude more Chinese than the Japanese killed. You might start an argument ......................lol.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I don't think Yasukuni has any Valkyries

They have the hottest shrine maidens, though.

military top brass who got you killed in their stupid, pointless war,

Almost all wars are stupid and pointless in the long run. That is why Sun Tzu and others have advocated for winning them without actually having to fight one.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Desert TortoiseToday  01:45 am JST

Even better, point out to the Chinese that Mao killed an order of magnitude more Chinese than the Japanese killed. You might start an argument ......................lol.

Why is that better? Not to excuse Mao's atrocities or anything, but who cares who killed more? You really think the Japanese wouldn't have gone on killing all the Chinese they felt they wanted to or needed to if they'd had the means and the opportunity?

Desert TortoiseToday  01:41 am JST

We Americans know a few things about the barbarities of the British ! We suffered under British kings too and fought a nasty little revolution to be freed from their thieving and butchery. 

Apart from some excessive taxation that the American colonists admittedly should have had some say about, what "barbarities," "thieving and butchery" are you talking about? Anything as bad as, say, what happened in the Highlands after Culloden in 1746, the Peterloo Massacre of 1819, or, for that matter, the treatment of black slaves and Native Americans by the United States?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Funded by the government until 1945...

When, after giving Yasukuni a wide berth for years, curiosity got the better of me and I finally paid a visit to that infamous shrine, I wondered at the immaculate condition of the buildings and grounds, prompting my first silly question: who provides the moolah for the upkeep? Who else but well-heeled chauvinist well-wishers on the right (where else?) and the dark figures controlling the slush funds from the sewers of the criminal underworld.

The enshrined souls of the so-called "heroes" impressed me less since they are nothing but the fiction of "The State" (the men who planned and carried out the wars of aggression in Asia) which cruelly used its citizens as cannon-fodder for its own nefarious ends and, after defeat, dubbed their victims, the human detritus of their wars, as "heroes" to salve their guilty conscience and deflect criticism of their crimes against humanity.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The heart of the issue is that the government, education system and society in Japan avoids encouraging people to explore all sides of an issue, especially controversial ones. This needs to change if Japan is going to participate in the 21st century with the rest of the world.

Yasukuni shrine follows this education directive where it could be so much more to help peace initiatives. Awareness of all the issues helps guard against acts of injustice and inhumanity to recur, and misunderstood by many educated in the J education system. That is the reason why I feel the world is so upset at Yasukuni (and other exhibits happening around Japan at this time of year)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Given that China has deified the mass-murder Mao in that creepy mausoleum and are currently engaged in two ethnic genocides in Xinjiang and Tibet, the Chinese government has no right or credibility to complain about Yasukuni shrine and war crimes of the past.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

UnamusedToday  10:34 am JST

Given that China has deified the mass-murder Mao in that creepy mausoleum and are currently engaged in two ethnic genocides in Xinjiang and Tibet, the Chinese government has no right or credibility to complain about Yasukuni shrine and war crimes of the past.

So you're saying you think that what they do at Yasukuni is basically okay?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Government should flatten it and sell of the Real-Estate to pay for the debt incurred by the Covid-19 Virus.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yasukuni poisoned itself and Japan by inducting the souls of proven war criminals.

But if you think there are no war criminals buried in Arlington Cemetery you are crazy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China and South Korea just doesn’t get it.

Yasukuni Shrine is the last stronghold and vanguard vs the virtual colonization of today’s Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Asakaze - thanks again for your offerings.

"...And your tendency to paint everything as right-wing is too escessive. Can I call organizations like Heritage Foundation in the U.S. right-wing? My point: in the West there are a lot of powerful organizations that are as right-wing as Nippon Kaigi. Got it?.."

Pray tell me where have I painted everything excessively as right wing. My mentions are simply on topic. And powerful RW organizations in the USA are irrelevant to this discussion on Japan. But even so, then tell me a RW org in the US that has as members the President and most of the senior cabinet.

"...Where is "systematic denying"? And have a thought about this: how a president of the USA (any) would react if asked about American crimes in annihilation of dozens of Native tribes or during the war in Vietnam, how any U.K. prime minister would react if asked about British crimes during the colonization of India or the Opium wars?..."

Again I simply posted the Inada link after a 2 second search - a 1 minute search will turn up tons - after you said show links of politicians denying war crimes. I did. And if you want to follow up Inada in more detail (or any politician), please feel free to do so. And once again - I don't know why you're bringing up the US or Britain in this discussion. The topic is about Japan. Sure mention as an analysis of empires or whatever, but not as a "whadda about" call. Just a simple diversionary tactic.

And finally - you write as if you think you know me. Hardly at all.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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