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Abe makes 3rd ritual offering to Yasukuni Shrine, but stays away

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same amount (Y30,000) what former PM Koizumi had offered?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oh no, here we go again....

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Abe never learned his mistakes.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

is this shrine addiction?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This guy is a delusional megolomaniac. Not only does he not learn from history (instead white-washes it willingly), but only yesterday he was saying the leaks at Fukushima are 'under control' (yes, he literally said it again).

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

This is most " regretable" but I'm sure they will " sincerely reflect on the situation", "collect all relevant information swiftly " and "take appropriate action speedily ", "to avoid public confusion" - "we will consider forming an expert panel.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

The faction that prioritizes friendly relations with China in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (called the China school) takes advantage of the protests from the Chinese government to expand their power base thereby interfering in PM Abe's affairs.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How long is this crap about the Yasukuni Shrine going to continue..these so called killers are dead and how long are certain Asian people going to continue on bad mouthing them and the Japanese people? Let's move on and try not to make the same mistakes that every country has made in the past.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

More Abe Monkey tricks? Pity no one is watching.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If Nakasone hadn't had war criminals interned in secret in the 80's this wouldn't be the ongoing problem it is today. However this is also a fallacy that shrines can control spirits at all, so another shrine that commemorates the war dead without war criminals would be a solution. Then there would be nothing to admonish and the region could move forward, finally.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I think Abe is sending a political message at the same time as he is making good on his traditional rights. A little understanding of Japanese religious traditions is enough to see that the Yasukuni fills a positive function for many Japanese. The problem is not the Yasukuni or the Japanese people that go there to grieve over their ancestors. The problem is the people that carries memories of bad blood from a long time ago. You need to learn to let go of your bad feelings for the past in order to have a future. Im sure Abe and other Japanese people could find a more diplomatic approach about history if people stopped bugging them. There is no way he is ever going to retreat and give respect to the neighbors as long as they keep disrespecting him and the people of Japan. And yes I have heard it all before - "they started so it must be their fault, or they started and then it is their fault and on and on...."

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Just let him be. He is offering his prayers to a shrine in his own country. He can do whatever he wants. Besides, he is staying away from it which shows that he actually may put others into consideration as to their thoughts.

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@mjh875k

Own country? He can whatever he wants?

Probably but the problem is that he's violating the Japanese constitution and nobody seems to care. People are rising the issue with Korea and China which is a valid point but not really relevant in this particular case since he's not going there but he's making ritual offerings. The real problem is that we have here a prime minister of a country violating the constitution of the his own country.

Japan is a secular country by means of its constitution and a prime minister has not right to donate even private money (it does not matter) to a religious entity. Abe could do whatever he wants if he would be a random citizen but he's a prime minister and he represents the Japanese state and government. The japanese constitution says in article 20

Article 20, Freedom of Religion, Secularity of the State

Freedom of religion is guaranteed to all. No religious organization shall receive any privileges from the State, nor exercise any political authority. No person shall be compelled to take part in any religious act, celebration, rite or practice. The State and its organs shall refrain from religious education or any other religious activity.

Note the clause

No religious organization shall receive any privileges from the State, nor exercise any political authority.

Abe as a prime minister is violating this fundamental principle of the Japanese constitution. I don't care that the constitution was written by "western countries" which don't understand the japanese culture or this kind of BS. In fact a constitution written by democracies was the best thing that happened for Japan after the war. Abe wants to change the article above in the constitution and actually the present government is already violating the constitution since the Komeito party has ties with some buddhist sect but the constitution forbids any political activity of a religious group.

Japan is turning to a total joke, the constitution is not even respected by its politicians, this is just disgusting. How can then the integrity of the population freedom in this country be preserved with such leaders who decide that they can do whatever they want?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

He has not visited the shrine in person because he wants to rebuild relationships with China and South Korea.

the PM identify Yasukuni shrine as one of the diplomatic obstacles with the said countries however, sending ritual offering is just no difference with visiting. and such war criminals are still glorified - looks like the only strategy for them to instill nationalistic feelings - and perhaps to keep their posts!

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Yasukuni is a shrine to the war dead, which unfortunately includes a number of war criminals. By using Chinese and S Korean governments' logic everyone who prays at that shrine is praying to war criminals? Sorry, I don't buy that. That's like saying everyone who goes to Arlington War Memorial is also honouring those few American soldiers who raped and killed Vietnamese women and young girls during the Vietnam War... it's nonsense.

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Just let him be. He is offering his prayers to a shrine in his own country. He can do whatever he wants.

Quite. But given the supposed separation of government from religion, why can't he just do it in a strictly private capacity and without telling anyone?

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The actual perps might all be dead, but if there is a difference between honoring Tojo and his cronies and Hitler and his cronies, I sure as hell don't know what it is.

Something that some people overlook when they talk about letting the past stay in the past is that when Abe honors Tojo, he is doing it today. Anyone so honoring Hitler would be branded a neo-Nazi and in some places, thrown in jail for it. Here, some people defend honoring Tojo.

How can you say he is not honoring Tojo and friends, but rather all the others who died serving the emperor (Tojo and pals were hung after the war so calling them war dead is false)? You can't say that he is not honoring Tojo. Of course he is honoring Tojo his buddies too. And that will rightly anger decent people today.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

How can you say he is not honoring Tojo and friends, but rather all the others who died serving the emperor (Tojo and pals were hung after the war so calling them war dead is false)? You can't say that he is not honoring Tojo. Of course he is honoring Tojo his buddies too. And that will rightly anger decent people today.

Simple. The co-mingled creamated ashes of the 7 executed so-called war criminal are housed in Aichi Pref. Tojo has a family grave in Tokyo. If any lawmakers go there, then you have a valid argument that these lawmakers are honoring specifically to them.

After the disclosure of enshrinement of so-called Class A war criminals in 1979, there has been 21 visits by the Prime ministers and not a sound from China or Korea. In fact, as late as 2002, Korea had sent their military attache to Yasukuni. Simply put, it's a manufactured political tool by China and Korea today as just only a few years ago, they went against the visitation of Prime ministers. Now, it's evolved to where the offerings as well as the visitation of lawmakers are not satisfactory to them.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

ControlFreak - who says Abe is honouring Tojo?

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There are a buch of souls who were buried in Arrigton Cementery including bad soldiers who raped Vietnamise ladies.

Despite of this negative point, I think that visiting that cementery does mean that we are worshiping bad soldiers who made wrong things with poor ladies during the Vietnam and Korea War.

The same apply to Yasukuni Shrine. There are a great number of soldiers who fought for Japan. Paying respect to those great soldiers who fought for Japan doesnt mean that those who are visiting that Shrine is worshiping bad soldiers.

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Probably but the problem is that he's violating the Japanese constitution and nobody seems to care.

There's been at least 5 cases where such activities contitute a violation of the constitutuion. The decisions are mixed based on which district court for the content of Article 20 itself is contradictory. For example,

"Freedom of religion is guaranteed to all."

If it were to use the U.S. as an example, a President of the United States cannot attend Christian church or funeral nor can he/she place his/her hand on the Bible during the oath ceremony.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

At least he didn't visit. That seems to get the neighbors all worked up. Although I agree with Matsuyama-san I think diplomacy requires a cautious approach.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This is not even news-worthy!

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nigelboy Oct. 17, 2013 - 09:57PM JST After the disclosure of enshrinement of so-called Class A war criminals in 1979, there has been 21 visits by the Prime ministers and not a sound from China or Korea.

In 1979, Japanese media had reputation for being more conservative on issues concerning Japan and World War II, and its reporting clearly reflected such an outlook. At the same time, Japan maintained that the Chinese or Korean protests were nothing more than baseless and unjustifiable accusations. With the lack of Chinese and Korean representation to serve in a balancing role, the Japanese media was thus able to shield its readers from what was in essence a very strong negative response from these countries. With the further addition of Koizumi's 'careful considerations' for the rest of Asia as well as the Japanese constitution when making his decisions, the Japanese public were bias in support of the government regarding the shrine visits.

If you look at two or three decades ago, the Chinese media was under greater state scrutiny, which means that one should expect its content to revolve around greater reconciliation and lesser antagonism with Japan. And in fact, this is exactly what Chinese media did to a large extent. Their vehement protests were targeted only at the hard-line conservative elements in Japan, with the hand of friendship always remaining open to the majority of the Japanese people. At the time, the Chinese goverment was more concerned with the honest reporting of the Yasukuni that might be the cause popular anti-Japanese sentiment. Chinese media only highlight the goodwill of China in improving Sino-Japanese ties and people in China may be drawn to infer that Japan has been more managed in its diplomacy than it actually is. There is importance of the role played by the media of both countries. Chinese media was controlled entirely by the goverment.

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In 1979, Japanese media had reputation for being more conservative on issues concerning Japan and World War II, and its reporting clearly reflected such an outlook.

False. There has always been controversy surrounding domestically whether or not such visits as PM violates the constitution as early as 1975 which was covered by the media. And again, there are NO RECORD of Chinese/Korean officials complaining about Yasukuni visits during the span of the said 21 visits despite both nations having an embassy there.

Your second paragraph basically proves that the controversy is fueled by the Chinese government themselves which is exactly my point.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

When you are making amends, isn't it normal to appear sincere or at least look apologetic? Atonement begins with a sincere apologies which promotes healing...but current Govt of JPN has confidently neglected to do so by choosing to pay tributes to war criminals at a shrine that openly profess JPN had the right to invade and colonize weaker countries under the laws of Imperlism. It seems current Govt is desperately trying to keep it's Imperial traditions alive by denying the truth/history and defying the victims who have been killed under Japan's dominance. So go tell the living victims to "get over it" or "stop dwelling on the past"... I don't think an average person who knows the difference between right and wrong would be able to say such things to the victims. The whole Yasukuni debacle is a inappropriate Big joke by JPN who avoided facing the consequences for their past brutalities. The real people Govt needs to pay tributes are not the criminals at Yasukuni but the heroes who suffered Japan's aggression fueled by Imperialistic greed.

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Yasukuni has more souls enshrined from Boshin-War more than 100 years ago. A majority of these souls were from Yaqmaguchi prefecture, the prefecture that toppled Shogun system, Abe's ancestors are from Yamaguxhi Prefecture. He should have freedom of religeon, too.

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Like every year, when you have over 168 J-goverment officials and Abe before becoming a PM visited and prayed for 14 class A war criminals, it does not help to improve relationship with China and Korea. These elected officials are doing the same thing every year. Apologies don't mean anything when your elected officials that represents millions of Japanese people still go to Yasukuni to pray for their buddy Tojo and JIA. Japan cannot make small steps forward like what Germany did. If PM Abe has any guts, he should demand that no J-goverment representative will go to Yasukuni, or your fired.

It's all about Japan continuing playing the victim card and nothing else is allowed. To have a better understanding of atrocities that were committed by JIA to their neighboring countries, is there any large museum in Tokyo or other major cities that detail the massacure of Nanjing, Manila, Manchuria, and other parts of Southeast Asia that are paid by the Japan goverment? In a annual Hiroshima August 6th rememberance, did anybody including the PM mentioned about the sufferings that Japan caused to their neighbors? No wonder Chinese delegation never attends Hiroshima memorial.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

ControlFreak - who says Abe is honouring Tojo?

@Thunderbird2--Has Abe ever denied that he was honoring Tojo and the other 1,068 convicted war criminals enshrined there? I never heard of it. So why should I not assume he is honoring Tojo along with everyone else? Particularly since all those enshrined are enshrined for having served the emperor, yet the emperor himself refused to go there after it was revealed the war criminals were enshrined there?

If a German chancellor ever went to a place honoring Hitler, Goerring, Goebbels, SS troops and death camp guards along with thousands of Wermacht soldiers too, the only people who would support the chancellor in that act would be neo-Nazis. I can't believe how many of you are throwing your lot in with the black van idiots.

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@fip330: You are the first one that mentioned Abe and Tojo were buddy How old is Ab e? He does not look over 100years old. Do you know his makeup artist?. Maybe you can leak his secret for us. How old is he? Was he Tojo's buddy in military? I wonder how come we do not know his military careers with Tojo?

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ControlFreak Oct. 18, 2013 - 07:43AM JST If a German chancellor ever went to a place honoring Hitler, Goerring, Goebbels, SS troops and death camp guards along with thousands of Wermacht soldiers too, the only people who would support the chancellor in that act would be neo-Nazis. I can't believe how many of you are throwing your lot in with the black van idiots.

You have a short memory. If you recall in 1985, German Chancellor Kohl with Reagan went to Bitberg where 49 SS and 2000 German troops are buried there.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Back on topic please. Germany is not relevant to this discussion.

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as a non japanese i think that whatever the japanese want to do in their own country they have to decide themselfs. a constitution written by foreigeners is no constitution but supression and any supressed country and people have the duty to protest and object this in any way. maybe china and korea are ashamed that the small country they tried to dominate for so many centuries exceeded them in developement by itself and not to be the slave of western economics! china and korea do not credit japan for the sacrifice the country and it's people made during a war they knew they would loose but still did their duty and with this war they ended the colonisation of all asian countries! maybe japan was the great liberator as they where the first non european power to win a battle over western armies in vife hundred years, not the chinese nor the korean could or still can. a bit more respect would be approriate and what is a war criminal for the enemy is a hero at home, that's logic. like all those allied bombers who bombed europe for vife years during the second world war are seen as the war criminals they are, bombing innocent civilians ; day in day out leading to the destroying and collapse of the total european infrastructure what lead to the big starvations in the last winter of the war. get real and warn china and korea to mind their own business and shut up about japan! like china or korea mean anything real in this world, the only reason they are devloped is that are being used by western companies to rape their country and destroying their culture just for some peanuts as the profits of trade goes to the leaders of western countries. it where these countries like america which invested so much money into china and korea thet they came this far, not the other way around but japan did this miracle by it self. the meiji restoration which made japan step out of the middleages as last country on earth and became a world power right after, with it's own money and hard work!!! the pan chin war was the result of this transformation, china and korea as decent countries should oversee this fact as they themelf act as whores of western powers. i love yasukuni jinja, i go there everytime when i am in japan, i am a peacecorps veteran and killed and slaughtered innocent woman and childeren in the name of the united nations and peace. my grandfather fought against the imperial army in the dutch indonesian islands for vife years and he never hated nor bad mouthed these soldiers, infact he honoured them and had a deep respect to them. he never got a medal from his own goverment, but i did and i left my medal, the third highest of my country as i saved the lives of my fellow soldiers by killing childeren at yasukuni jinja inner shrine. i did this to make a commitment in the hope the soul of my grandfather and his enemies would find rest as all soldiers are warcriminals in the eyes of the innocent.

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Controlfreak: Are you not answering your own questions here? As far as I can read your saying that any one that visits Yasukuni is honoring Tojo. Ergo neonazi, to make it short. The thing is that you seem to be assuming rather than trying to understand the real issue. Example: One japanese woman goes to the shrine. She does her thing and then returns home. Now did she go there to honor Tojo, or is that just in your head? Try to se that there is a lot of people going there because their traditions bid them to do so and you can be sure they are thinking about their own ancestors, not a bunch of boring war criminals from long ago. Some of the visitors may be relatives to the war criminals and I guess they can take responsibility for their prayers. If head of state Abe goes to Yasukuni and make a prayer to the war criminals then it is a problem for the japanese people and media. If he gives prayer to his own ancestors thats his and his families business. Its always easy to succumb to prejudice but its never necessary.

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You have a short memory. If you recall in 1985,

sfjp330--Your barbs are weak. 1985 was 30 years ago! Plus, you cherry pick. However, I suppose I should have been more clear. Every war cemetery contains the remains of war criminals and every war memorial contains the names of war criminals, although we don't know who they all are because we are not omnipotent.

The Yasukuni difference is that it honors 1,068 known, tried and convicted war criminals. Not people who died fighting whose crimes were never discovered, but 1,068 people tried and convicted and punished for their heinous war crimes after the war. I know of no other place that does that yet has politicians all the way up to the PM paying respects.

One japanese woman goes to the shrine. She does her thing and then returns home. Now did she go there to honor Tojo, or is that just in your head?

@Sentiments--She honored Tojo just by paying respects. That is why the emperor himself does not even go there. I went to Yasukuni once just to see it and what goes on. I did not pray or give money. I did not pay respects. I have no respect for the place.

If head of state Abe goes to Yasukuni and make a prayer to the war criminals then it is a problem for the japanese people and media.

Its a problem for everyone who suffered at the hands of the IJA. Its a problem for all those whose relatives suffered at the hands of the IJA. Its a problem for anyone who is even remotely thinking of dealing with the Japanese government because it shows that they are dirty, dishonest, and beyond being worthy of contempt. To go and pay respects at a place that enshrines 1068 war criminals! Seriously! Obviously they think Japan did nothing wrong during WWII and so who knows what they are capable of in the future.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Im sorry but it is very hard to take your argument seriously. The kami of yasukuni includes millions of war dead and a group of war criminals can not dictate how to treat the rest of them. Then of course the Kami may not be the same thing as the acts of the war criminals. Only a few persons in Japan try to think that Japans imperial army did not do wrong. As you said most of the notorious criminals got convicted. So how is that relevant for the the Japanese people in present time? Actually for the future Im more worried about people that have a strong urge to try to condemn a population for crimes committed a long time ago. It has a pre-modern ring to it.

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@Dennis Smit: Will you e33expalin following of yor statyement? ;;;;; but i did and i left my medal, the third highest of my country as i saved the lives of my fellow soldiers by killing childeren at yasukuni jinja inner shrine. i did this to make a commitment in the hope the soul of my grandfather and his enemies would find rest as all soldiers are warcriminals in the eyes of the innocent........................... There was no murders of killing children at Yasukun=ni Jinja Inner Shrine.. There is a building shrine behind of Hondo in Yasukuni Shrine, Late Emperor Hirohito doncated that with his private money.

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So how is that relevant for the the Japanese people in present time? Actually for the future Im more worried about people that have a strong urge to try to condemn a population for crimes committed a long time ago. It has a pre-modern ring to it.

I am not condemning the population of Japan. I am condemning the supporters of Yasukuni no matter what their nationality is.

Yasukuni is the very embodiment of the denial of Japan's war crimes. The crimes might be in the past, but the denial is very much today. Anyone denying the well documented evil of the past is a very unpredictable person and no one a sane person calls a friend. There is no telling what current evil they will deny and overlook. But somethings we know they deny and overlook are the sex slaves, something the U.S. government has condemned the Japanese government for and that was not long ago. Modern court decisions also deny slave laborers as well as the sex slaves. Modern history books commit lies of omission.

Yasukuni is also the embodiment of spitting on the graves of all the people the IJA killed and raped, whether American soldier, Chinese baby in a crib or teenage Korean girl abducted from her home. Yasukuni took it upon themselves to enshrine 1,068 tried, convicted and punished war criminals with those who died in service to the emperor, both Japanese and non-Japanese, both voluntary and conscripted, and did this against the wishes of the families of the very people enshrined there and against the wishes of the emperor himself.

If any of those enshrined at Yasukuni ever had any honor, the inclusion of the war criminals stained it. Anyone who wants to honor them separate of the war criminals needs to go someplace else.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Control Freack@ - You should not judge their act of paying respect for good souls, but yeah support them.

Think this way, if you were one of those 2 million souls, wouldnt you feel happy to see that they are paying respect to your contribution to the country you fought for?

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@ mitsuo

There were not fighting for their country but for a corrupt elite, there's a lot of it about.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Many people here seem to forget that history is written by the winners after a war. Japan is no better or worse than any other country. During war terrible things happen and atrocities are committed by all involved. Japan happens to have been on the losing side and therefore demonized by the winners. That is why wars are bad people. Normal people do abnormal things and most of those things would horrify the normal people if they were not at war. This shrine is to honor those who gave their lives for Japan. Let those countries without guilt complain there rest of us should just shut up and let them visit their memorial.

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@Dennis711

Problem with Japan is the continue denials by some of their leaders. Even today, lawmaker like Nariaki Nakayama, who believes the Nanjing Massacre, in which Japanese Imperial soldiers rampaged across the Chinese capital in an orgy of bloodshed, never happened. In 2007, former education minister Nariaki Nakayama declared he was proud that the LFP had succeeded in getting references to "wartime sex slaves" struck from most authorized history texts for junior high schools. Japan should understand that almost one third of their GDP is attributed to the trade with China and South Korea. And China itself accounts for 21 percent of Japan's GDP and the Japanese companies will suffer in a long run if corrections are not made. Japan should accept the historical fact that Japan caused tremendous damage and suffering to their neighboring countries.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Any nation's long term strategy must be to be at peace with its neighbors (or to integrate it into its own territory.) The US is most exploratory in this regard. Having accomplished this since Monroe doctrine, it has been able to "roam" the world.

If the politicians are (not) careful, they could make northeast asia the next middle east. China and Japan may become the next Israel and Iran. I see the Russians and Americans are already planning their foot holds. They are both "pivoting" to Asia now. Disaster will befall you when remote powers fight for influence in your region of the world. An arms race is already underway.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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