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Abe to discuss China's air defense zone with Biden

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Wouldn't it make more sense to go to China and discuss it with them?

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

BertiWooster'. But that takes just common sense, something we first teach our children

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Not at all. It makes perfect sense for the U.S. to consult with it's allies first to present a united front before going to China to listen to their nonsense,

5 ( +15 / -10 )

Looks like classic 'diplo-speak' from Washington. "We have not requested the airlines to submit plans, but we expect US carriers to follow local notification policies." Which is it? They have now fictively CYA'd themselves in the case of an incident, but are now sending an inconsistent message to everyone else. The initial strong reaction of sending in 2 B-52s has now been diluted with these vague words...

6 ( +9 / -3 )

The real intention of China's extending the ADIZ has nothing to do with the Senkaku Islands, it all has to do with the Miyako Strait which is the shortest distance for the Chinese Navy to reach the Pacific Ocean.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

China's access to the pacific is totally hemmed in by the Japanese archipelago and the Senkaku Islands are geographically insignificant to this fact.

Long ago, a kingdom of what us only recently known as China abandoned naval expansion and colonization in favour of diplomatic isolation.

Not having any territory anywhere else in the world is the price they have to pay that decision - they have to take responsibility for their actions.

Today China is the biggest threat to global political and economic stability, and we should all collectively and individually take a very strong stance towards this trouble maker.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Mr. Biden’s Asia trip has been planned for quite a while, and his first stop is China. The overture of the US is just a part of wide ranges of diplomatic efforts in play for developing a more productive environment to improve business & diplomatic ties between US and China after Snowden’s episode. Many American companies took a hit after NSA’s incident. For instance, both IBM and Cisco have suffered double digits loss of orders recently in China.

It is quite clear that Mr. Abe and his followers are in some sorts of denial, they kept telling themselves that the US will put its national interests aside and backup their nationalistic ambitions even though the reality says otherwise given the backdrop of Iran interim deal. Yes, Biden will reiterate American known position in terms of the treaty and ask Japan to restrain when he visits Japan. But beyond that, Abe should not expect too much from him on ADIZ, which the US does not like it, but just has to deal with it.

Many of us from the states know that American public has grown wary about the wars, just about any kind of wars at this point. In part, the US public has realized the superb military might of America has not guaranteed desired results after many young lives were sacrificed and billions dollars evaporated in the thin air. Obama's Admin is unlikely to wage another war.

Don’t get me wrong, the majority of people in this forum may be expatriates just like me who do care about Japan. That is why we provide some of out- of-the-box perspectives for others to contemplate.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Ytf we need to care China ADIZ , china just make it up by its self , no one or even the UN to recognize this , lol , china better stay on bedkeep its dream for good

0 ( +2 / -2 )

EthanWilberDec. 02, 2013 - 09:25AM JST Mr. Biden’s Asia trip has been planned for quite a while, and his first stop is China.

"On his first stop, Biden will meet with Japanese Prime Minister ..."

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/233921661.html

When you start your opening sentence with complete inaccuracy any motivation to read further evaporates quickly.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Biden's first stop is Tokyo.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dear JT Moderator:

Thanks for the correction.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

wanderlustDec. 02, 2013 - 08:33AM JST

Looks like classic 'diplo-speak' from Washington. "We have not requested the airlines to submit plans, but we expect US carriers to follow local notification policies." Which is it?

You are exactly correct on this. They have been sending two conflicting messages since last Saturday. Biden has to deliver just ONE message to China, Japan, S. Korea and US State Department. It has to be concise, clear and firm.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It shocked Japan that U.S. carriers submitting flight plans to Beijing. They did not notify Japan about it in advance . We are feeling qualities of Japan-U.S. Security Treaty is changing as time goes by.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

All of Asia needs to remember WW2 and the pain it caused, accept it and work to avoid it as Germany has. Stop the arms race, stop pointing fingers. "Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The FAA recommended compliance as a safety measure. It doesn't change the U.S. position on the matter.

Also, China keeps stating that Japan and the U.S. have similar zones. However, they are not exclusion zones, and planes only need to comply if they are heading towards Japan or the U.S.

In China, anyone flying in the airspace is supposedly subject to their rules. So, there is a main difference. Japan and the the U.S.' zones are a legitimate protection of the country from plane coming to those countries, and China's zone is to control airspace by force and extend their territorial claims.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes, because we all know how much weight Joe Biden pulls both at home and around the world... He's a big...deal! (But with as much real power as, say, Caroline Kennedy.)

As for the US not notifying Japan in advance about their recommendations to civilian carriers, proof please? You have no idea what the two countries discuss amongst themselves (and which doesn't get reported.)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Hopefully the discussions will strengthen the opposition to China's ADIZ and bring forth methods for persuading China to recind it, as well as ironing over plans to prepare for the worst if/when China turns violent (which they might if they bow to the demands of its people, who want actions, not words). I know little about Joe Biden, but I should hope that his visiting the area should in some way be a big step towards resolving this dispute without armed conflict.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Ossan: "Not at all. It makes perfect sense for the U.S. to consult with it's allies first to present a united front before going to China to listen to their nonsense,"

The US has already kow-towed to China's new ADIZ, and that is what Japan will do when told by their masters. They just have to figure out how to put lipstick on it.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

They can use big nets to take the scrambled airjets on China, so no one will be killed.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I think White house overlook this issue from a higher standpoint so they basically balanced both sides(JP & CN) no matter what they orally said. Anyway I think AIDZ is not a real issue (pls refer to below Art. From CNN) but was exaggerated for political purpose and actually many countries, like the US & Canada, ADIZ overlapped.

What is an "Air Defense Identification Zone" or ADIZ? The ADIZ is not a new concept. It's essentially a buffer zone outside a country's sovereign airspace. Several countries including the United States and Japan have established ADIZ in international airspace next to their nations. A foreign aircraft traveling in an ADIZ can be required to identify itself for entry into that country's airspace. It is unilaterally imposed, so it doesn't really have a legal basis and isn't based on negotiation with neighbors, said James Hardy, the Asia-Pacific Editor of IHS Jane's Defence Weekly. "It's purpose is to give the country an early warning zone in which it can intercept potentially unfriendly aircraft."

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

yosun@

yeah, your right but people are beyond reason, everyone likes to bash China, the West brainwash their people into doing so......

Déjà vu again@

yeah, China is now paying for taking a humanitarian and peaceful approach to other nations when they where much less civilised. If China took the American stance, the world will now be one, under Chinese rule.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

America recognizes that itself and the rest of the world outside Japan cannot afford another area of conflict. It also recognizes which country is at fault and trying to get America and other countries involved in a historical dispute that Japan simply refuses to admit that it committed tremendous atrocities and hardship on the people of China, Korea and most of Southeast Asia. Its recalcitrance and blatant stubbornness with insisting its rights when it has repeatedly been proven wrong shows how unreasonable it is as a country led by a lying prime minister and his coterie of thugs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China=insolent child....a child that keeps pressing ....until something snaps...where corporal punishment needs to be "handed" out. Seriously I don't see how China can posibly think it will gain anything from all this. The world ( excluding 3rd world with their hands held out ) is definitly not going to side with China in anyway

1 ( +4 / -3 )

BertieWoosterDec. 02, 2013 - 07:55AM JST Wouldn't it make more sense to go to China and discuss it with them?

No, you must first go to your ally and talk with them before you travel and try to reason with your enemy.......

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Do the Department of State and The Pentagon have conflict of opinion?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There is no valid Zone there is instead a fictional sham Chinese propaganda ploy to try to carve out control when they have no right to it. The area they have tried to "mark' as their zone is international air space and open ocean and they have no privileged claim to it. Japan on the other had owns and has soveringty over the Senkaku Islands. Period. So the US supports its ally, Japan, while China is attacking both of them with these aggressive moves. It is not a matter of point of view it is a matter of facts.

What Biden or the US Govt does or does not do is not that important at this point, the treaty between Japan and the US establishes the mutual support that will be there if needed. We in the US value and respect Japan far more than we do China for many reasons...and history from 70 years ago does not apply here. We live in the world as it is today, and we must learn to live together today. That means China can learn to get along with and respect its neighbors and join the international community as an equal or it can continue to try to force its desires with bullying and force and it will be ostracized and isolated and alone, and if and when it faces challenges as any modern industrialized nation may or can, it won't get much help from anyone.

So the future lies in everyone's hands, not just the biggest or most aggressive ..but in the joint community of hopes and goals. I hope for the best for everyone but it is clear that Japan and the US must stand together and stop this aggressive and fallacious fantasy ploy of China now before it gets worse.

And yes we have no idea what has been communicated between the US and Japan, and they have no reason to have to report it all to us. I am sure that communication is open and flowing freely. The FAA issues notifications as a standard measure for all regions of the world for US Carriers, and they are called Advisories and included in the Jep Packs that all pilots scan when taking command of flights. It is NOT a matter of national policy but just a routine matter that happens daily and in this case CNN and the US media is a lousy source for they have no real idea of the issues and their simplistic approach to issues is not much help either.

Japan Today continues to be one of the best sources on this very interesting situation and we are lucky to be able to receive such good coverage.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Ossanamerica, one Japanese official in the Japanese media likened the US move instructing US airlines to adhere to Chinese demands, as something to the fact that Japan used a ladder to climb up to the roof, but then someone cleared the ladder. By the way, South Korea told their airlines don't bother respecting Chinese ADIZ claims.

Not at all. It makes perfect sense for the U.S. to consult with it's allies first to present a united front before going to China to listen to their nonsense,

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

US 'rock solid' commitment to ally Japan burdens with ironies:

US has much more commercial interest in China than it has in Japan. Just ask the CEOs US fortunate 500. China is Ford's biggest market. How many ford cars sold in Japan last year, few thousands

Japan never had a sense of appreciation for what US had done for them since WWII. Instead, the society prevails a sense of resent, which see US as 'imperialistic' power keeps an uphand over Japan. Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzmgyFQNv...

Japan doesn't share the same social value with the US. The videos below tells something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pE2ms1P5... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBjQcPdgH... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J58rLOBQa...
0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapanDec. 02, 2013 - 12:58PM JST Ossan: "Not at all. It makes perfect sense for the U.S. to consult with it's allies first to present a united front before going to China to listen to their nonsense,"

The US has already kow-towed to China's new ADIZ,

Wrong as always. The United States objects to and military aircraft will not comply with China's ADIZ requirements. The FAA has recommended that commercial airlines comply for safety reasons.

and that is what Japan will do when told by their masters. They just have to figure out how to put lipstick on it.

If the US is Japan's "master" then South Korea's even moreso. How is South Korea going to put lipstick on it?

chucky3176Dec. 02, 2013 - 08:24PM JST Ossanamerica, one Japanese official in the Japanese media likened the US move instructing US airlines to adhere to >Chinese demands, as something to the fact that Japan used a ladder to climb up to the roof, but then someone >cleared the ladder. By the way, South Korea told their airlines don't bother respecting Chinese ADIZ claims.

If the above is true then the exact same analogy holds true for South Korea doesn't it? You really should be more concerned about South Korea losing it's ladder than worrying about Japan.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

24 hours before Biden arrive in Japan, 1 of 6 Poseidon P-8 Submarine Hunter landed in Kadena Airbase. After he leave Japan, the remaining 5 Poseidons will be coming to Okinawa one after another.

Poseidon is the only anti-submarine asset of the US Navy that can hunt Stirling-propulsion submarine. Even the Nimitz-class battle group cannot hunt Swedish Stirling-propulsion GOTLAND SUBMARINE.

So this Poseidon deployment is one of the strong and unquestionable indicators that USA will help Japan at all cost.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The thing is though, South Korea isn't attempting to rally an allied front against China, like Japan is doing. South Korea's attitude is that both China and the US are very important for future of South Korea's economy, so it has to walk a very delicate balance, and not throw the baby out with the bath water. South Korea's fear is that if it joins the Japan lead alliance against China over this incident, Japan may very well collapse in the future against China and end up negotiating the terms with China. Or that the US, knowing China's importance on it economy, well negotiate with China. That would leave South Korea holding the bag against China. So therefore it's wise to be very careful here, and try to talk peace. Notice such talks from South Korea are not directed towards Japan. I noticed the latest trade numbers with Korea-Japan trade. They have been steadily going down over the last several years, and South Korea's export volume to Japan is now only barely above $30 billion per year, while imports from Japan have also dropped to $53 billion per year.

If the above is true then the exact same analogy holds true for South Korea doesn't it? You really should be more concerned about South Korea losing it's ladder than worrying about Japan.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

The thing is though, South Korea isn't attempting to rally ......

Blah blah blah. Yes. chucky. In summary, South Korea is an insignificant country. You don't need an essay to point this obvious fact.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

When JP complain about CN's ADIZ, JP should know how it's ASDF treat Taiwan civilian planes (refer to today's news from Taiwan below)

Taipei, Dec. 2 (CNA) Civilian aircraft from Taiwan has previously been intercepted by Japan's Air Self-Defense Force in an area where the two countries' airspace zones overlap, the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) revealed Monday. In 2002, Japanese defense craft "monitored" a Taiwanese plane testing a new air route designated B591, which stretches from Taipei to northeastern China through the overlapping zones, according to CAA official Hung Mei-yun. A similar incident occurred in 2009, she said. Responding to questions from lawmakers earlier in the day, CAA Director-General Jean Shen said that the incidents occurred where Japan's air defense identification zone (ADIZ) and Taiwan's flight information region overlap. Shen explained that the area falls between longitude 123-124 degrees east. Japan asked Taiwan to provide flight plans through the overlap starting in 2009, and Taiwan has complied. Even so, Japanese self-defense planes have intercepted Taiwanese civil aircraft in the region, which she said "poses a great danger" to Taiwan's flight control.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Not in Japan, where news on Korea dominates discussions on Japanese portals. And the biggest best seller in Japan at the moment is the book titled, "48 Reasons Why South Korea Will Go Bankrupt". lol..

Blah blah blah. Yes. chucky. In summary, South Korea is an insignificant country. You don't need an essay to point this obvious fact.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Xi may be especially willing to risk a confrontation with Japan right now in order to distract opponents of his proposed reforms, as well as ordinary Chinese who are growing restless over pollution, income inequality and official corruption. At the end of the day, China could create an ADIZ that covers the entire Pacific ocean and nobody would still care. Why? Unless you have a credible means to enforce your ADIZ, no other country should be expected to abide by its rules.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Americans don't need to discuss anything with the Japanese. They only need to discuss with the Chinese. The Japanese will do whatever the US wants anyways. When you are doing power bargaining with someone, you don't need to discuss it with your servant.

It's the Japanese who needs the Americans, not the other way round. Japan has nothing to bargain with.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Abe is a useless coward clown.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

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