COVID-19 INFORMATION What you need to know about the coronavirus if you are living in Japan or planning a visit.
politics

Abe's China overture at risk if cabinet ministers visit Yasukuni

80 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2013.

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

80 Comments
Login to comment

the politicians will visit the shrine for the sole reason intent of pissing off the Chinese. They don't care about "paying respects to the war dead." Locals and netizens will support their actions too. Their hotheaded nationalism and pride has made them blind to potential ramifications. The more the Chinese protest, the more Japanese politicians will choose to visit the shrine

3 ( +18 / -15 )

Bob--

I'm not so sure that the Japanese visit Yasukuni solely to piss off the Chinese. I think it's more about paying respect to the war dead. There are other reason to visit and pay respect at Yasukuni other the war criminals. The media, the Chinese, and Koreans focus solely on that aspect, but there is certainly more to it.

Also, the Japanese are not going to let the Chinese and Koreans dictate what they can or can not do. Every country does that. If China protested an American president visiting Arlington Cemetery, do you really think that would stop them from doing so? Of course not. Why should the Japanese stop just because the Chinese demand it?

I am demand that China stop brutalizing their own people and give back Tibet. I am willing to bet it won't happen.

-4 ( +16 / -20 )

China and Korea must learn from Japan about Japanese people's stoic and quiet attitudes shown in Hiroshima and Nagasaki memorial days. Samurai spirit still remains somewhere in the minds of Japanese people. People hold down sadness and accept the facts of the history quietly.

-2 ( +14 / -16 )

Elemetz. The point is that the shrine honors the class A war criminals who were responsible for the lives of minions of Chinese, Koreans,Taiwanese, Americans, and etc. what would your reaction be if German leaders made an memorial to Hitler and other war criminals and pray for their souls every year. In the eyes of China, Korea and many others, this is exactly what Japanese politicians are doing. Praying for the soul of war criminals.

Yes Japan has the right to honor its war Heroes but to openly and publicly pray for and honor war criminals is an direct insult to all the families in Asia and Americans who lost their lives.

-5 ( +10 / -15 )

There are more than just war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni, and you know it. Get real. Yasukuni was not made for the sole purpose of honoring war criminals. Comparing a memorial built to honor only Hitler is ludicrous.

4 ( +15 / -11 )

Japanese are intelligent, they are capable, and they are devoted, as they ever were. But their way of thinking belongs in a previous century, if not a previous millennium.

-1 ( +11 / -12 )

To hell wit China. The shrine is in Japan, the politicians are Japanese, it's what China calls an "internal matter". Nobody goes to that shrine to worship war criminals, some 14 that's a big problem out of 2 million? Because it honors war dead from all wars going back to the 1800s, it is far closer to a national cemetery than "Hitlter's grave" a ridiculous comparison.

AianhometownAug. 09, 2013 - 07:59AM JST

he point is that the shrine honors the class A war criminals who were responsible for the lives of minions of Chinese, >Koreans,Taiwanese, Americans

We Americans don't give a flying hoot. Please don't put us into that same China/Korea crowd. We are even friendly with Vietnam, thanks to China.

-5 ( +15 / -20 )

If he for a second considered Chinese government position (not Chinese people) he... lost?

Japanese papers don't make comments when Chinese officials don't celebrate the Tiananmen case... Of course he's PM representing his nation but are everyone around him representing Japan as well or Japanese people who would like to do eveything they want when they aren't working? Or is China already saying what Japanese can and what they shouldn't do? Is Japan an independant state or it's US puppy? Or not even US puppy as they don't give Japanese instruction where they should go and when like Chinese do?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Then why are war criminals enshrined there? Get rid of the names of the war criminals. Why honor or enshrine them? Do they deserve the pray and respect of the Japanese people? These men are directly responsible for taking Japan into Korea. Directly or indirectly in the death of millions of Japanese based on their policy and ambition.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Yasukuni was built in 1869, well before World War II and well before there were any war criminals. It is dedicated to honor ALL of Japan's war dead. Again, the media, China, and Korea focus solely on the war criminal aspect. To the Japanese, it much much more than that.

Besides, Mao is one of the biggest mass murders in history, yet the Chinese honor and revere him as a God. I don't see you complaining about that.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

The fact that Yasukuni Shrine is indisputably religious bodies under the Japan constitution. The state is forbidden to have any special relationship with religious bodies, even when the matter was one of 'consoling the spirits' of those deceased in war. The 'Yasukuni Problem' is whether or not the state should be connected to Yasukuni Shrine where the war dead are commemorated.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Two wrongs don't make it right. Mao was a mass murder and China should be ashamed for continuing mask over their history to glorify Mao. But this doesn't justify Japan for enshrining the war criminals next to Japanese war dead.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

My point, which you obviously chose not to directly address, is that there is more to Yasukuni than the war criminal aspect and the politicans do not go there SOLELY to piss of the Chinese. I personally think the could care less what the Chinese think, which is the way it should be. The Chinese do what is in their interet at the expense of others, but when the Japanese do the same everyone gets all bent out of shape. The hypocrisy is mind boogling.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Keep your mouth shut China!

4 ( +11 / -7 )

If any German politicians prays, worships or glorifies their Nazi past or their dead war criminals, they would get kicked out of their government so fast they wouldn't even have time to blink and maybe even be charged too. Germany, its politicians and people, have shown sincere remorse and apologies throughout many years after WW2 that enabled it and other countries it have harmed to build trust and peace again. Within the peaceful framework of EU, Germany have become one of the leader in Europe again.

Contrast that to how Japanese have acted since WW2, it is no wonder Japan still have so much problem with all of its neighbors.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

iWorld--

You mean how Japan gave billions of dollars to both China and Korea to facilitate their economic growth? A fact that the governments of both countries ignore?

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Hey China, let's keep this alive and well for the next hundred years and keep you people believing all the lies and deceit they have and are being taught. If the Chinese people were only taught what the Chinese leaders throughout history has done to them, wouldn't that be an awakening? Then, all the attention would reverse back to China itself and off of Japan and these Chinese people could base their feelings on facts and what is actually the situations of today instead of seventy years ago.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The real message of the war criminals being enshrined at Yaskuuni is that no matter what you do, no matter how much suffering you inflict, if you have Japanese blood in your veins you are ok. On the other hand if you are foreigner, no matter how much they have suffered it is not important, because you are not Japanese. Considering the suffering inflicted on neighboring Asian countries by Japan is it so hard to call them the 'invasions' that they are rather than 'advances'? If Hiroshima and Nagasaki are crimes then surely Japan's wartime actions are also crimes, why is it so easy for Japanese people to acknowledge A-bomb victims and so hard to acknowledge Asian victims of Japan's wartime aggression? Simple, The A-bomb victims were Japanese and therefore important and the others were foreign and therefore less than human and unimportant. That is the underlying fact that is hard to move beyond that for Japan.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You mean how Japan gave billions of dollars to both China and Korea to facilitate their economic growth? A fact that the >governments of both countries ignore?

One does not negate the other. Rich countries have always provided money to lesser developed countries for their development: string attached or not. These money provided by Japan sometimes requires China/South Korea to buy Japanese product and services. It is a win win for both Japan and the other two countries. However, these money doesn't whitewash the atrocities Imperial Japan have committed against China and South Korea.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

@iWorld

It becomes quite clear that China does not value long term friendship. It has switched or abandoned its friends when it is convenient or useful to do so. If you notice in any Chinese media, when Japan provided the $6 billion in ODA to China in the late 70's to build and moderize their infastructures, only the few communist goverment members knew at the time that Japan contributed greatly to rebuild at the time a primitive China, but these Chinese leaders took the credit. In the late 70's to even today, Chinese goverment have censored and never publicly told their citizens that Japan help rebuild their airports, cities and facilities. Only the negative propaganda news of Japan was told to their citizens.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

sfjp330--

Exactly.

iWorld--

I am not whitewashing, nor am I condoning. I am point out the hypocrisy that others, such as yourself, ignore.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

It would be no problem for politicians if the names and relics of war criminals were removed from Yasukuni. I wonder why they don't?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China will hate Japan no matter what, so they should probably just go and show respect for those who suffered and died for Japan.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

My first natural inclination is to tell the Chinese, that since they don't really want better ties, what does it matter whether lawmakers visit Yasukuni?

My second natural inclination is to support anyone who wants to visit and pay their respects; because anyone who dies for their country should be honored, especially if a bayonet was pointed at their backs to urge them forward. That those who pointed the bayonets are also there doesn't lessen their sacrifice.

My last natural inclination is to be flippant. How evil were these men compared to Mao and the tens of millions he starved or "re-educated" to death for his perfect society? Yet his image exists almost as an icon of veneration. People in glass houses shoudn't throw stones.

Natural inclinations aside, for the sake of Abe's foreign policy, the Cabinet should voluntarily refrain from making an appearance this year. If China continues its belligerency in spite of the olive branch, by all means, go next year, and bring the camera crews while you're at it.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

In my opinion, if they want to visit those shrines that bad, instead of publicizing their visits, they should visit them PRIVATELY(Meaning, don't bring bunch of photographers/reporters with you).

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

This is the 21st century, Japan does not exist in a bubble, it's part of the world.. I understand it's an important Shinto shrine (that predates the war) and there are many family men who were just following orders from on high, who died fighting for their country. But those men were betrayed by the leaders that sent them on one of the most brutal, relentless campaigns in world history. The internationally accepted and validated facts are clear as day, Japan's forces killed 30 million people, savagely invaded Nanking, the state enslaved an estimated 10,000 women as sex slaves and Japan's Unit 731 tortured human beings in some of the worst ways imaginable. Yasakuni shrine only presents WWII as a proud feat of bravery and celebrates Radha Binod Pal because he said Japan was innocent. Recent quotes by the Abe administration that include 'what constitutes an invasion has yet to be defined', Aso suggesting they learn from the Nazis, Hashimoto denying state involvement in the sexual enslavement of women and the consideration of changing the word 'invasion' to 'foray', not to mention the airbrushed school textbooks all suggest that Japan is not accepting its history with the humility and grace exhibited by Germany after the war. Suga's recent condemnation of the comfort women monument in America does nothing to counter that impression. Abe's in a unique position, with one clear speech he could clarify once and for all that Japan accepts even the ugly parts of its history and also state that for the last 68 years, it's become a peaceful place where many kind people live without hurting anyone. No matter what statements or textbooks the government revises, history is history. People remember pain and who caused it. If Abe really wants to restore ties, the economy and improve international relations, he needs to make some decisive speeches that 1. apologize for the offensive comments by people in his cabinet 2. clarify Japan accepts and holds the rest of the world's fact-based opinion of its wartime actions 3. Say that by teaching and remembering history accurately, Japan will never lose sight of it's path toward peace. I guess it's naive to think this would happen, but it would be a much fairer reflection of the kind, peaceful, incredibly honest people of Japan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

In the past I including others suggested that those considered official war criminals could be reburied in others shrines that their descendants wished for. During that time there were comments that this was not possible due to some guidelines or rules set up previously by the Shrines. After all rules are set up by people for the good of its citizens and in this case the living descendants of the dead therefore they can also be removed or rectified by people also. Lets not be imprisoned by our own rules and lets us look at the bigger picture in front of us.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sfjp330 AUG. 09, 2013 - 08:58AM JST

It becomes quite clear that China does not value long term friendship. It has switched or abandoned its friends when it is convenient or useful to do

It is true. However it is not only China! US and Japan are also fair weather friends for dumping friends when it it is convenient to do. If the leader change, there is no obligation for new leader to follow the old way of former leader. Marcos from Phillipines was a darling of US before. However he was dumped as parasite by US before.

If you notice in any Chinese media, when Japan provided the $6 billion in ODA to China in the late 70's to build and moderize their infastructures, only the few communist goverment members knew at the time that Japan contributed greatly to rebuild at the time a primitive China,

Japan was the nearest developed nation of China. When the economic reform started in China, South Korea is still far behind of Japan. Japan contribution for development of China is not one way traffic. Japan has capital and technology. China has vast land, huge market and some natural resource. They need each other for what other is lacking.

Without the any cent of return, Japan will not contribute for nothing. Investment is different from charity hand out. If Japanese Inc built the run way at China, they will get toll fee for many years. If they built the airport, they will get landing fee of planes. Japan wiped off the Myanmar outstanding loans of 30 billions. However it will get more contract for resource exploration and project development permits. Therefore Japan will not do charity for nothing.

but these Chinese leaders took the credit. In the late 70's to even today, Chinese goverment have censored and never publicly told their citizens that Japan help rebuild their airports, cities and facilities. Only the negative propaganda news of Japan was told to their citizens.

Not only Japan invested and contributed for PRC development. Countless nations, HK, Taiwan and oversea Chinese rushed to share the pie of China. All projects funded by foreign joint venture of China should be opened by foreign executive of Inc and official together. It will be shown as big event in PRC media. Therefore it was not censored.

As you read western media, there are countless negative publicity about thug Chinese of mainland. However there are many decent and friendly Chinese there too. That nation has 1.3 billion people. assuming a few hundreds are bad in China does not mean 1.3 billion of people are bad in your country China. Old men start the war! Middle age men inflamed in forums. Young men have to die in the war.

That shrine issues are media frenzy. Not for ordinary Japanese or Chinese interest. There is one of the warming story about Japanese tourist treated by ordinary Chinese. No more bias, No more hatred to both Japanese and Chinese.

http://japandailypress.com/lost-japanese-tourist-spends-a-month-sleeping-in-chinese-train-station-1015394/

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Visitting Yasukuni make Hiroshima and Nagasaki memorial useless and make people in China and Korea consolidate their beleive that A-bombing was correct and maybe need more.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

removing the names of war criminals or placing them in a different shrine can be an option as well to this ongoing problem. Because they were placed in the Yasukuni shrine in the first place, i don’t think that gonna change the perspective of neighbouring countries (and perhaps the world), in alot more years to come. good luck to Abe (and his advisers) in trying to move forward on this issue

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

*kuuku

removing the names of war criminals or placing them in a different shrine*

A typical idea from out side of Shito. I can see why some people get angry when the politicians go to Yasukuni. It is a very different religion from the most of religions any where. A German prime minister visits to the cemetery of Hitler and Abe goes to Yasukuni has a huge religious difference. When someone goes to the cemetery of Hitler seems that person as if he subscribes to the point of view of Hitler. I feel other religions seem that even after one individual died,his or her policy and individuality is remained at the cemetery, but shinto is not the case. Once they become so called Mitama, they are no more individuality. Just like a clean water drop or the water you use for washing your face goes back to the ocean, every water just becomes water.I am not Shintoist but culturally I know some of it and this is my best description. I am a Buddhist and I believe an individual Karma, I do not go to Yasukuni, but I send my prayer in Buddhist way for everyone who suffered all wars with my relatives who died during the carpet bombing in Tokyo 1945 . But the same time, I am not subscribing to everything,some individual mistakes,either. This is a hard issue because every nation would like to keep their religious freedom. As everyone knows, Koreans, Taiwanese, all civilians and other countries solders are there as well. Soul(Mitama) is free. If I were there after I die in case I were killed by war, I would leave to go back my temple. This is one of very difficult issues to resolve completely because the deep part of the issue is not even mere political but the issue of mind for each individual.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Elementz: "I am demand that China stop brutalizing their own people and give back Tibet. I am willing to bet it won't happen."

If China doesn't realize your 'demand' will harm relations between the two? Will relations improve if your demands are met? YES, China has internal problems it definitely needs to deal with, as does Japan. NO it has no relevancy at all to visiting Yasukuni. Your comparison isn't even apples and oranges.

I agree with you that not all, if any, ministers go to visit solely to 'piss of the Chinese', as you say, but the fact remains they more than enjoy making public the fact that they are going to visit, on the Japanese taxpayer's dime, and knowing full-well how it will make others feel. If you don't believe this arrogant attitude exists, ask the politicians to ask that the names of the war criminals be removed. What will you get? you'll get people saying they were only found war criminals because the trials in Tokyo were corrupt, that they not criminals, etc. etc. See?

It's time for Abe to have done with the number two and get off the pot already. If he wants to be a true leader, he'll recommend that the ministers NOT visit, or state that they are not recognizing the war criminals while paying respects. If he is unwilling to do so he only proves his pledges upon pledges have zero meaning. At the very least he could ask them to visit not in their official capacities.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Chamkun@ In the Buddhist tradition, there is a notion of non self, karma takes it toll. If your a Buddhist there is no soul or mitama, its a process, not an entity. In Shinto, like in Christianity the soul unites with the cosmic soul (god) after death and in worshiping the death whos committed such crimes against humanity it symbolises the agreement in this life time hence politicians honor the war criminals in their mind they are agreeing and carrying on that legacy.

I guess if Muslim groups created a shrine to worship Bin Laden, the US will blow it up. Its the same logic, thats why the Americans disposed of the remains of Bin Laden.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The point is that China does what is in its interest, so why shouldn't Japan. China will never cave into Japanese demands, so why so Japan do the same? Besides Japan did much to atone for past sins, I.e. public apologies, loans, grants, investments, etc. the more they gave the more China demanded. I think the Japanese are fed up and no longer willing to play that game. And rightfully so.

As for my Tibet comment......get your sarcasm meter checked. China is one of the most brutal and repressive regimes the world has ever witnessed, yet they cry at any minor transgression. It's all quite absurd to the point of being comical.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Elementz Aug. 09, 2013 - 07:33AM JST

I agree with you for Japan does not need to cave in China or SK demand. However I have to correct as both US and China are the most brutal and repressive regimes the world has ever witnessed. yet they at any minor transgression. It is all quite absurd to the point of being comical. Former mercilessly killed babies and women with drone attack. Later oppressed the ethnic minority with sticks, belts and guns. Former is cruler because wiping out one terrorist does not mean it needs to buthered hundred of civilians. Former is a Wild West bully. Later has insecurity about disintegration. Gutanamo bay is another hell created by former. Tragedy of Arab spring is another mess of former. Former is not Saint either. It is more likely Sinner!

I am demand that US stop brutalizing innocent foreign citizens(Afgan, Yemen, Pakistan and and give back some land to Mexico and Natives. I am willing to bet it won't happen.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

ROK and china have been protesting prime ministerial and governmental visits to Yasukuni shrine for a long time. Interestingly, the countries which protest about that is only ROK and China in this huge world. Actually, paying big respect to ancestors is normal thing as same as you visit your parent's tomb every year. The insistence of ROK and China over Yasukuni shrine is that A war criminals who were leading Old Japan are in Yasukuni shrine, which means that is a symbol of militarism of old Japan, and people who were killed or damaged by old Japan during war are still hurt by visiting r existence of Yasukuni shrine. Then what about Japanese citizens who lost their family by war? I think what ROK and China have been doing toward Yasukuni shrine is illegal of policy of "non-intervention in the domestic affairs of another nations. If they are against that kind of action which hurt to people sentiment of war victims, then why they are planning to make a memorial day of Hirohumi ito who was first prime minister of Japan and killed by assassin of ROK? It is also bad action which can hurt Japanese people. Before you complain about something of foreign country, you guys should look at what you guys have been doing toward Japan.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

What??? Um, ok.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@chamkun

This is one of very difficult issues to resolve completely because the deep part of the issue is not even mere political but the issue of mind for each individual.

that understandable, so what the govn't proposes, or what u propose? just leave it that way! that might be good culturally or traditionally, but i might say just expect another uproar and protest in years to come. i love this country by the way and i don’t want other countries to hate Japan as well. i think it would be good to think in a long term rather than short term basis.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sfjp330 wrote

The real message of the war criminals being enshrined at Yaskuuni is that no matter what you do, no matter how much suffering you inflict, if you have Japanese blood in your veins you are ok. On the other hand if you are foreigner, no matter how much they have suffered it is not important, because you are not Japanese.

Non-Japanese are enshrined at Yasukuni including many Koreans and Taiwanese (some of whose descendants object) and afaik, at least one Briton who served as observer during the first Russo-Japanese war.

In addition to the main part of the shrine for those that died fighting for Japan, there is also another, small shrine (chinreisha) dedicated to the peace of the souls of those that died fighting against Japan. So in a sense, all the fallen Chinese, Koreans, and Western Allies are enshrined there too.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

A Elementz

The Chinese do what is in their interest at the expense of others, but when the Japanese do the same everyone gets all bent out of shape.

Absolutely. The title of this article implies that there is a possibility that Abe's "overture" (voluntarily curtailing his personal religious freedoms to ease tension and placate PRC and ROK) will be favorably recognized by either country. Alas the news has already come out that the Chinese brushed it off as "empty words". I commend Mr Abe for this clear demonstration that he is able to set aside his personal beliefs when they conflict with his public duties. Of course he won't get much credit for that around here ... folks will just say that "he'll go on another day anyway" (like he should have to give himself a lifetime ban from Yasukuni), or "its just as bad if he allows any gov members to go" (like this is communist China where the party gets to tell people how to practice their religion).

@ sfjp330

The real message of the war criminals being enshrined at Yaskuuni is that no matter what you do, no matter how much suffering you inflict, if you have Japanese blood in your veins you are ok. On the other hand if you are foreigner, no matter how much they (sic) have suffered it is not important, because you are not Japanese.

Pretty big words. I think Chamkun's excellent post above goes a long way toward disproving your notion of what the "real message" is. It should also make it clear once and for all to everyone why removing the names of certain souls is not possible based on the notion of what a soul is. Surely no one here is suggesting that the Shinto religion alter is basic philosophy to accommodate tired old grievances that everyone else on the planet has long moved past?

why is it so easy for Japanese people to acknowledge A-bomb victims and so hard to acknowledge Asian victims of Japan's wartime aggression? Simple, The A-bomb victims were Japanese and therefore important and the others were foreign and therefore less than human and unimportant. That is the underlying fact that is hard to move beyond that for Japan.

You took an already flimsy supposition from your first paragraph and ran it right off a cliff with your "less than human" comments. After a long experience of living in japan I do think that foreigners will continue to be thought of as "outsiders" who can't properly understand Japan and the Japanese way. In that sense foreigners will most likely continue to be "discriminated" against for the foreseeable future. I don't mind it actually. At least you always know where you stand. I support the right of the Japanese people and government to keep running their country the way they want to. They should protect their culture from "foreign" things they don't like. None of that means they see foreigners as "less than human". If I believed that for a minute I never would have stayed here.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Elementz: "The point is that..."

How many times do you have to write that before you make 'the point'? Sorry, the point (wink) is just that you have not really made any with your comparisons to Tibet, Mao, and you may have even blamed the sun at some point, for existing as though it were the same thing as a war criminal's actions. The point is, you're talking about China's problems, not the problems that Japan has with China and cannot be denied. In other words, the point is, stop trying to deflect with bizarre comparisons that have no effect with Japan/China relations and Japan's own history (sorry, the point I was trying to make was not in that order). Get the point?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Surely no one here is suggesting that the Shinto religion alter is basic philosophy to accommodate tired old grievances that everyone else on the planet has long moved past?

Shinto philosophy is open to various interpretations it seems.

According to the Wikipedia Controversies concerning Yasukuni page "A number of proposals have been made to alleviate controversy. One is to somehow "remove" the controversial spirits and place them in a different location so that visits to Yasukuni Shrine would not be as politically charged. Moreover, the shrine is adamant that once a kami has been housed at the shrine, it cannot be separated. The one method which is suggested as theologically valid is to abolish the entire enshrinement, then repeat the entire enshrinement rite of kami since the Boshin War without including the A class war criminals. Some argue that selective abolishment of enshrinement is technically possible, as there are several precedents of selective de-enshrinement in the Tokugawa era. The Shinto processes of bunrei and kanjō exist specifically to remove a kami from its shrine and re-enshrine it elsewhere."

I think that the last sentence is typically incorrect. bunrei and kanjō exist specifically to re-enshrine a Kami at another shrine, without removing it but rather while leaving that kami at the originating shrine. The option of "abolish the entire enshrinement, then repeat the entire enshrinement rite of kami since the Boshin War without including the A class war criminals." however, seems quite valid and could be performed in the reverse order. I.e. a new shrine, perhaps within the same precinct could be created (by bunrei and kanjō or ex-nihilo) to all of the kami other than the class A "war criminals," and then the current enshrinement could be decommissioned.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

they do it to provoke china/korea, which causes them to return the insult, which then escalates relations, which then gives them validity to calls for renewed nationalism and armament

thats the jpn gameplan

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Ossan, you don't speak for America. You only speak for youself. This American here care very much about the representation of these visits for THIS shrine. Maybe the shrine was built in the 1800s but after WWII ended, Japanese gov't elected to put these criminals in this shrine mixed with many soldiers that probably could be innocent and simply following order to stand ground. Japan chose to do this. Nobody pointed a gun on its head to force them to risk "contaminating" the pool.

Its not just the visits but this all started when the right wings nuts dressed in WWI and WWII uniforms with their swords drawn out while putting on those ridiculous Tojo glasses and Hilter mustache to mimic the glorification of Japan's invasive past. These "parades" just "happens" to coincide with these visits? And the same supporters for the "visitors" just happen to be the same people who supported those politicians?

These visitors or cabinet members are also elected legislators. They are politicians who are playing to the contributing constituents. They are doing this for their own personal interest in securing votes and supports. If they do care for the dead and the spirits of their ancestors, they are dozens of shrines and multiples of occasions where they can visit and pay respect. Or they can do this privately without stepping in front of the cameras.

This is all for show. For the ones who do truly visits the shrine to pay respect, I've got no problem with that if they do it privately for the right reasons.

And let me give you a prime example for this. At Arlington National Cemetery, if you wish to be buried (veterans) there, you must be vetted by the US Army C.I.D. Any criminals or convicted war crime personnel cannot be buried there to "taint" the pool. If mismanagement is found, they will remove those buried and situate them somewhere else.

Japan should do the same. Remove those criminals. Then all these politicians can visit the shrine every day for all I care.

It'll be interesting to see if they will continue to visit the shrine like this if those criminals the signify Japan's socalled "glorious days" were indeed removed. And I would like to know who are the ones that will object to their removals.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Timtak, as I understand it, the problem is less whether it is possible to find a 'legal' way to remove them as a more fundamental doctrine of Shinto, which says you are punished for any wrongdoing within your life, and at the end of said life, it is all considered paid, like a prisoner completing his sentence. This makes it an oddball in a world of religions with "Original Sin", Hell, reincarnation into an animal's body ... etc.

Anyway, according to this doctrine, you can't really find a 'moral' justification to remove them. They might have sinned, but they have paid for it in life (certainly, they were either beheaded or incarcerated by the Allied Powers). Now they are 'off the hook'.

Perhaps an analogy is this. There is this former criminal who did something pretty heinous but is considered to have served his time and is now living in a particular community. Somehow, this causes the ire of certain people, and they demand that he be removed from said community. Even counting the idea that they are victims (these days, they are most at best the children of victims), I think most will agree if the criminal served his sentence as per local law, that should be the end of it and he should be allowed to continue living there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China needs to give it a rest

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The Japanese view seems to be that outsiders saying Japanese people should not visit a beautiful shrine that enshrines more than 2 million souls because of a few war criminals is ludicrous.

However, the current Japanese emperor has never visited the shrine for the exact same reason.

As a Korean, the Yasukuni shrine doesn't mean too much to me. I do see it as an equivalent of a national cemetery.

However I oppose several high profile Japanese politicians who seem to want to downplay Japan's war crimes, and use the Yasukuni visits to score political points. If they were really that keen to pay respects to the souls, why can't they do it privately without making a big show of it?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

After 1945 surrender, Japanese Communism Party gained power because Russia promised Russian style communism will rescue Japan. Then MacArthur decided not to make Emperor Hirohito A class War Criminal despite Truman's Order to hang Emperor. Tojo who failed his suicide attempt and said he was only one fully responsible of waqrn not Emperior or anyone and MacArthur took this to make some A class Prisoners pardoned so that they could crush communism movement. Kishi who was A class because he was in Tojo cabined (only bureaucrat who knew Japan's economy and trade, then. Kishi created a new Party and crushed Russian Attempt. Also, Nissan founder Ayukawa was released. Nissan made military vehicle. Mitsubishi had military airplane but Mitsubishi owner Iwasaki was not A class. Why Nissan is abbreviation of Nippon Sangyo. Mitsubishi symbol is three diamond. Kishi (Abe's mother side grandpa who was too friendly with USA was almost assasinated by then right wing when he came back from USA. Anyway, not all A class was enshrined for various reasons. Russia is not Communism country now. So, China has excuse to make Japan Communism by using Yasukuni Shrine which is a private shrien as an excuse.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

These visitors or cabinet members are also elected legislators. They are politicians who are playing to the contributing constituents. They are doing this for their own personal interest in securing votes and supports. If they do care for the dead and the spirits of their ancestors, they are dozens of shrines and multiples of occasions where they can visit and pay respect. Or they can do this privately without stepping in front of the cameras.

That's the whole point of being a lawmaker of a state. If you don't do it in front of the media, how are these voting public who consists of family members who died in the war, know that you did?

Since you mention other shrines, there is a place in Aichi that SPECIFICALLY house the ashes of the Class A criminals who were executed. When lawmakers go there specifically, then one can claim that he/she is honoring them.

And let me give you a prime example for this. At Arlington National Cemetery, if you wish to be buried (veterans) there, you must be vetted by the US Army C.I.D. Any criminals or convicted war crime personnel cannot be buried there to "taint" the pool. If mismanagement is found, they will remove those buried and situate them somewhere else.

Except for the inconvenient fact that the NONE of the Allied members were prosecuted for the war crimes for WWII hence no war criminals.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

In 1944,Tojo was ousted by military. Before he was arrested, he shot his heart to suicide. Along with 6 proplr, hr was hang in 1948. Allied tried and tried but Tojo shielded emperor and others saying he was responsible for all actions including when he was not prime minister. Japanese people were brainwashed to die for emperor and Gen. MacArthur somehow saved Japanese people from suicide. (Ichioku Gyoku sai slogan). In schools, teachers instructed "just pretend you were dead" General freed all other A class. Later, Kishi received UN Peace Prize.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Come on, Elementz

You can not compare oranges and lemons. Arlington and Yasukuni are very different. If the Germans had a shrine where the Nazis criminals were also buried, and the German politicians went there to pray, what would you say?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Nigelboy,

"That's the whole point of being a lawmaker of a state. If you don't do it in front of the media, how are these voting public who consists of family members who died in the war, know that you did?

Since you mention other shrines, there is a place in Aichi that SPECIFICALLY house the ashes of the Class A criminals who were executed. When lawmakers go there specifically, then one can claim that he/she is honoring them."

No, its not the whole point of being a lawmaker of the state. There is a thing called moral turpitude. They should not and cannot in good conscience elect to do something immoral but is agreeable or supported by the masses. Otherwise, if the direction of Japan turns extreme right and every politician who wanted to be elected blindly follows this discourse, Japan will repeat that horrific past. Lawmaker must have an ethical duty to resist these "temptations". That's what turn them from politicians to great leaders. Japan doesn't have one yet. We've had a few that changed history and the world. That's what separate us. If the quoted statement is your point of view and most of your people's point of view, then I am truly disappointed.

Whether Aichi has such a shrine is irrelevant. If you read what I wrote, I was referring to removing these criminals from THIS shrine. They do not deserve in a place that is being represented as a National Spiritual Place/Cemetery or whatever you people see it as. By mingling them, you gave the criminal recognition, respect and a platform for their evil actions and ideals.

"Except for the inconvenient fact that the NONE of the Allied members were prosecuted for the war crimes for WWII hence no war criminals."

Yes, that's true too. So what? We are here to talk about Japan, not the allied forces who happened to be victors against the invaders in a race war. You like to drag in non-related issues or marginally relevant information to digress the point of argument in order to muddle the issues. That's your trait from this board. But I will play along with that.

Here's a quote by Pulizer Award Winning Historian/Author John W. Dower on a Japanese neo-nationalist like you, Nigelboy, on arguing that Allied war crimes and the shortcomings of the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal were equivalent to the war crimes committed by Japanese forces during the war. This position is and quote "a kind of historiographic cancellation of immorality—as if the transgressions of others exonerate one's own crimes". While right-wing forces in Japan have tried to deny or re-write the war-time history, they have been unsuccessful due to pressure from both within and outside Japan.

Sounds familiar? These are just more eloquent words from a well respected historian on exactly what YOU, Nigelboy had been defending/arguing/debating in virtually all of these Shrine-related posts. Neo-Nationalism in Japan is popular these days.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Chamkun Aug. 09, 2013 - 12:38PM JST I can see why some people get angry when the politicians go to Yasukuni. It is a very different religion from the most of religions any where. A German prime minister visits to the cemetery of Hitler and Abe goes to Yasukuni has a huge religious difference. When someone goes to the cemetery of Hitler seems that person as if he subscribes to the point of view of Hitler. I feel other religions seem that even after one individual died,his or her policy and individuality is remained at the cemetery, but shinto is not the case.

Huge difference? In 1985, German Chancellor Kohl invited then U.S. President Reagan to accompany him to Bitburg Military Cemetery, which contained the graves of 49 members of the Waffen-ss. Kohl's request to have Reagan go to Bitburg was thus part of a strategy to rewrite recent German history and curry favor with the most reactionary elements of the West German electorate. Reagan's planned trip to Germany did not include a stop at the site of a Nazi concentration camp.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

o, its not the whole point of being a lawmaker of the state. There is a thing called moral turpitude. They should not and cannot in good conscience elect to do something immoral but is agreeable or supported by the masses. Otherwise, if the direction of Japan turns extreme right and every politician who wanted to be elected blindly follows this discourse, Japan will repeat that horrific past. Lawmaker must have an ethical duty to resist these "temptations". That's what turn them from politicians to great leaders. Japan doesn't have one yet. We've had a few that changed history and the world. That's what separate us. If the quoted statement is your point of view and most of your people's point of view, then I am truly dThe isappointed.

Repeating the horrific past. Where have I heard this before. Yes. That's right. The same posters and even countries like today like Korea and China who casually forget the recent past that Japan has been the most peaceful nation for over 60 years. And yes. Most peaceful when it was "common" for PM's to visit the shrine on Spring and Fall festivals every year. Somehow, it wasn't "extremely" right wing then but somehow when a "cabinet member" or a lawmaker visits them, the nation is doomed to repeat the mistakes. Please Highball 7. Save it. Nobody, except for the two, really buys your argument.

"Yes, that's true too. So what? We are here to talk about Japan, not the allied forces who happened to be victors against the invaders in a race war. You like to drag in non-related issues or marginally relevant information to digress the point of argument in order to muddle the issues. That's your trait from this board. But I will play along with that. "

Marginally relevant? Excuse me but it's you who brought out the issue of Arlington cemetary to the table when you conveniently ignored the fact that none of them war brought to be prosecuted despite committing what is commonly known as "war crime" for wonton bombing of civilians. Hence, it's only "clean" in the minds of U.S. and U.S. alone that the said cemetary is free from so-called "war criminals". That's my point.

"Here's a quote by Pulizer Award Winning Historian/Author John W. Dower on a Japanese neo-nationalist like you, Nigelboy, on arguing that Allied war crimes and the shortcomings of the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal were equivalent to the war crimes committed by Japanese forces during the war. This position is and quote "a kind of historiographic cancellation of immorality—as if the transgressions of others exonerate one's own crimes". While right-wing forces in Japan have tried to deny or re-write the war-time history, they have been unsuccessful due to pressure from both within and outside Japan. "

And it should because my position has always been the absurd nature of finding "criminality" in war in light of the fact that in all wars, the end results will always and forever will result in casuality of innocent civilians. If any lessons are to engage in war for any nations, I basically agree to Curtis Lemay which he staed " I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal". In other words, you better not lose.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

That's the whole point of being a lawmaker of a state. If you don't do it in front of the media, how are these voting public who consists of family members who died in the war, know that you did?

I would seriously question such people's priorities if it's more important to them whether a politician visits a shrine or not than what they're doing for their constituency. Moreover, if the point is mainly to be seen visiting the shrine doesn't it rather call the politicians' sincerity into question, and make it look like a shameless token gesture to scoop up votes?

The same posters and even countries like today like Korea and China who casually forget the recent past that Japan has been the most peaceful nation for over 60 years. And yes. Most peaceful when it was "common" for PM's to visit the shrine on Spring and Fall festivals every year. Somehow, it wasn't "extremely" right wing then but somehow when a "cabinet member" or a lawmaker visits them, the nation is doomed to repeat the mistakes.

What period specifically are you referring to? Before the spirits of the class-A war criminals were enshrined or after? Questions of guilt aside, it definitely appears to be the case that the priests at the shrine are of the view that no one enshrined there ever did anything bad whatsoever, and that there's nothing at all to feel guilty or remorseful about. Politicians who go there in their best morning wear with swarms of reporters crowding around them make it look like they're endorsing that view. It all seems to be less about respecting those who died for your country than it is about making transparent political statements. No matter what the Chinese and Koreans have or haven't said, to me that just looks a bit tacky.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I would seriously question such people's priorities if it's more important to them whether a politician visits a shrine or not than what they're doing for their constituency. Moreover, if the point is mainly to be seen visiting the shrine doesn't it rather call the politicians' sincerity into question, and make it look like a shameless token gesture to scoop up votes?

Yes. That's what lawmakers are. To do what the constituents want them to do.

"What period specifically are you referring to? Before the spirits of the class-A war criminals were enshrined or after? Questions of guilt aside, it definitely appears to be the case that the priests at the shrine are of the view that no one enshrined there ever did anything bad whatsoever, and that there's nothing at all to feel guilty or remorseful about. Politicians who go there in their best morning wear with swarms of reporters crowding around them make it look like they're endorsing that view. It all seems to be less about respecting those who died for your country than it is about making transparent political statements. No matter what the Chinese and Koreans have or haven't said, to me that just looks a bit tacky."

Either. Heck. I'll take 21 PM vists AFTER the enshrinement of the so-called Class A criminals when all of the sudden China started to make this an issue. OK. No PM. We got that. Now, it's the lawmakers and cabinet members. The rules keep changing because it's obvious yet for some, it's "tacky" by the Japanese side. Sigh.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

msmahumane--

I am not comparing Arlington to Yasukuni in the sense you are referring, and I think you know it. Further, comparing Yasukuni to a Nazi memorial is also lemons and oranges.

None of you are looking at this from the Japanese perspective, which I why I can't take your arguments seriously.

I am not condoning war criminals, atrocities, or anything of the like. I never stated that or even suggested it.

I am trying to get people to look at Yasukuni through Japanese eyes, rather than through the eyes of a subjective media and the Chinese and Koreans who have a desire and need to keep the Japanese as an external threat.

The Japanese people, not just politicians, do not want to be pushed around by the Chinese and Koreans any longer. In their view, they have done plenty to atone for the past and feel its time to move on. The Chinese and Koreans make Yasukuni a big to do because it is a convenient way to stoke nationalism and gain more concessions from the Japanese. The more the Japanese apologize, the more money they give in grants, aids, loans, the more that is demanded of them. The Japanese feel as though nothing they do will ever be enough and the more they give the more that will be demanded. They don't want to play that game anymore. The Chinese complain no matter what the Japanese do, so what is the point? Why do they have to give up their cultural heritage to constantly appease a foreign country that will hate and despise them no matter what they do? I think its a valid point.

Japanese culture is certainly unique. But there are good and bad in all cultures. We could hammer on all day about the atrocities the Chinese have committed. The Americans and Brits as well. But, I think many are not seeing the big picture and analyzing this subject objectively.

My wife is Japanese and I have discussions about topics such as this with her family and friends often. Trust me, when it comes to Yasukuni, the war criminal aspect never comes to mind. They don't even know war criminals exist in the Western sense (yes, they are not taught it, i know). But they do expect their elected officials to maintain a sense of Japanese identity and not give in to the demands of the Chinese. Should there elected officials continually do so, they will not be in office long.

Lets face it, the party leadership leadership in Beijing need to keep the Japanese as a external threat. Without an enemy to focus on, the party will have to look inward. It doesn't want that. It wants the people dope up on nationalism and focused on the external threat--in this case the Japanese--to deflect attention away from the mounting internal pressure that threaten the party's hold on power. The main function of the Communist Party is to maintain legitimacy and hold on to power. Japan and Yasukuni are nothing more than communist propaganda geared toward that end.

Yasukuni is not solely about war criminals and the Japanese do not visit the shrine and offer prayers solely to piss of the Japanese. This was my point from the beginning. Nothing more, nothing less.

highball07--

I am assuming you got the Dower quote from "Embracing Defeat." If so, page number? Curious what context he was speaking of. I read most of that book as well and I thought Dower was just fairly objective and also a little critical of the war trial process.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I am trying to get people to look at Yasukuni through Japanese eyes, rather than through the eyes of a subjective media and the Chinese and Koreans who have a desire and need to keep the Japanese as an external threat.

I've heard this a thousand times. Koreans and Chinese government want and need Japan as the enemy, to deflect attention away from internal problems. It's a popular theory. But is there a shred of evidence?

Funny nobody accuses Taiwan of doing the same when they made territorial claims to Senkaku/Diaoyu. Why? Because Taiwan is largely pro-Japan?

Maybe the rise in Japanese nationalism in the past 5 or so years is a way for Japan to deflect attention away from their stagnant economy and internal problems too?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

"Maybe the rise in Japanese nationalism in the past 5 or so years is a way for Japan to deflect attention away from their stagnant economy and internal problems too?"

Yep. That and China's rise and increased belligerence.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Removing war criminals from the shrine is not nearly enough. They should also remove the ridiculous whitewashing of history by putting their ludicrous versions of history of WWII all over the shrine.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Mitch Cohen

Why are you trying to involve Taiwan to your nation's issue?

Taiwan has not made any further complain after they had signed the fishing treaty with Japan and have not once made any complaint concerning Yasukuni. Just because Korea has a grudge doesn't automatically mean Taiwan shares the same feeling. In fact I have not seen any vocal Taiwanese here or other forums constantly complaining like the Koreans.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There was a plan by GHQ to burn of Yasukuni and create Dog Racing Arena in 1945. Rome intervened/ Because it has so many kami of Boshin, Satsunan and other old wars, and yasukuni is a private religeous shrine, Rome intervened. It has so many souls of Gakuto Doin (Student drafted) and womwn, animals who died working for military something, and many many foreigners. Once a KoreanChinese to burn. Rome had Misa (spell) of A, B, C class who were punished in 1980 (1,066 souls)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's what lawmakers are. To do what the constituents want them to do.

So if it were the case that all the people who didn't want the politicians to visit Yaskuni or didn't care one way or the other stopped being so apathetic and actually voted once in a while, the visits should stop?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nevermind, highball07.

You cut and pasted that from Wikipedia.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

To any Wikipedia users to know about Japan: English language version have only selected items. Try to read Japanese language versions before you cut and paste. Many many things were not in English language versions.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Elementz, did you not see the reference I gave for the author? Wiki copied from the author's page. Like I said to you on the other post. Go to the primary source!

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Some A class prisoners were released ande became a big politicians, Mr. Shigemitsu, Mr. Kaya, etc. Mr. Kishi crushed communism movement, Not all A class people's names are enshriend in Yasukuni. Because the man who tried to burn Yasukuni was Korean Chinese, China demanded Korea to give him to China and Korea gave him to China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@K.kawanp,

I warn you about visitting to Yasukuni shrine.

This is a very sensitive issue, even the most.

visitting Yasukuni shrine means show respect to the war criminal. This is definite things what China and Korea people believe. Or just remove the war criminals from Yasukuni shrine, no one will concern about this.

Another question about only China and Korea concern about this, remember your father or grandpa commited the crime, killed their father and grandpa, and left poverty to them. They have every right to protest this.

Hi K.kawanp, I am really worry about you, if you are Japanese if you love Japan , dont let hatred fly. They will definitely play back some day.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why are you trying to involve Taiwan to your nation's issue?

I am not.

As a half-interested observer, I was simply challenging the Japanese view that China is making an entirely baseless claim (as would be the case if the Chinese were claiming ownership over Hawaii), using the Taiwanese claim to the same islets as an example that truth is more complex than claimed by many.

My view is that both Japan and China have reasonable claim to ownership. If I was Japanese I'd be a firm believer in Japan's sovereignty over the islands, and likewise if I was Chinese.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ IRobin. I strongly recommend that you should learn about definition of Yasukuni shrine for Japanese people more. Visiting Yasukuni shrine is to show respect to the war criminal? Thats a totally one sided opinion of people who does not really research about definition of Yasukuni shrine. Seems like you do not know what ROK and CHN have been doing to protest against Japan in their country. Why does Japan have to allow all the shit what they have been doing against JPN and stop doing what we believe? Visiting Yasukuni shrine is counted as one of the strategy toward ROK and CHN. Just leave comment after YOU get enough knowledge about that. See ya

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Often fragile Sino-Japanese relations have been badly frayed for nearly a year by a row over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea claimed by both countries, disputes over Japan’s wartime history, and regional rivalries.

What Relations?

Doesn't the Sino-Japanese "Relations" sound something more like Broken Marriage where the 2 Couples hate each other so much, yet they can't get a divorce because they need each other and they have too many assets owned between each other and 1 or the other may risk paying alamony?

Simply said: The Sino-Japanese Relations is nothing more than a Marriage gone Completly Sour, but for them, its cheaper to just stay married despite the fact they hate each other so much.

The Senkkaku Islands are like The Kids that just want compromise between their parents & The Yasukuni Shrine is like the "Mother-in-Law" that comes around once in a while just makes the marriage that much more worse...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Visiting Yasukuni shrine is counted as one of the strategy toward ROK and CHN.

How's the strategy working out for you? What's it achieved so far?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The western countries are the greatest beneficiaries of this Yasukuni visits. While Japan keeps up the quarrel, western cars and electrical products and luxury items are selling so fast in China. The US and Germany are the greatest beneficiaries. Keep it up Japan and stroll towards mediocrity like what our former prime minister said. You were once thought to be peerless, but now?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Simon

You are also the one who should learn about Japanese politics history more. You do not know what democratic party did while they were main policy of Japan for 3 years, right? I can know that you do not know that visiting Yasukuni shrine is included political strategy by seeing your comment. You guys usually say that Japan stop doing everything which looks like provocations toward ROK and China, but all we have to know both of sides of insistence to discuss about historical issues. The people like you does not reach to level to discuss about historical issues.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You are also the one who should learn about Japanese politics history more.

Oh really? Well, you can't give a straight answer. I'll ask you again. What have the shrine visits actually achieved?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Under the current circumstances I think the cabinet should skip Yasukuni for a while. Somebody has to make the conciliatory move even if it's really just showboating - or a lack of it by staying home. There are more important things to contemplate. Although I think China is just looking for excuses it is better for Japan to take the high road right now.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You do not know what democratic party did while they were main policy of Japan for 3 years, right? I can know that you do not know that visiting Yasukuni shrine is included political strategy by seeing your comment.

I certainly didn't know visiting Yasukuni was part of some strategy, as you have said. All politicians ever say on the matter is that it's natural to go there to pay respects to those who gave their lives for Japan. According to you there's actually an ulterior motive they aren't admitting to! Wouldn't you agree that it is in fact dishonouring the war dead to visit the shrine for such shamelessly political reasons?

Oh, and learn some manners and cut the "you don't know this and you don't know that" crap. Being condescended to by rude people does not make me at all inclined to agree with or respect what they have ti say.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China is a polluted Communist cesspool that bullies other countries then whines and cries when other countries defend themselves. Damn Commie hypocrites.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Under the current circumstances I think the cabinet should skip Yasukuni for a while. Somebody has to make the conciliatory move even if it's really just showboating - or a lack of it by staying home. There are more important things to contemplate. Although I think China is just looking for excuses it is better for Japan to take the high road right now.

Sounds good to me. However I suspect that politicians are more concerned about what redneck voters think than taking the high road. They'd be just as well leaving foreign policy to the kind of people who continually fall for ore ore scams.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Who cares what the Chinese think? Anybody who is offended because somebody visits a shrine that commemorates 2.5 million people killed in wars has severe psychological problems and should seek medical help. China and Korea teach their people to hate Japan from birth and many of them have a pathological hatred of Japan. Neither China or Korea have the least bit of interest in "mending ties" or "repairing relations" with Japan. No doubt there are many reasons in the Chinese and Korean leadership for that, mostly political, and a deep-seated inferiority complex. China and Korea need Japan as an enemy, not as a friend. Anyone who thinks different is deluding themselves. They could tear down the Yasukuni Shrine tomorrow and China and Korea would find some other reason to foment hatred and ratchet up the anti-Japanese propaganda that they dispense by the truckload on a daily basis.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites