politics

An Olympic dispute: Japan rejects S Korean anger over map

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By Kazuhiro Nogi

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Another day, another anti-Japan protest in Korea. Takeshima is inalienable Japanese territory, thats why its shown on the map. Why doesnt Korea understand? If they really want to protest, how about carrying through with the Olympic Boycott?

1 ( +20 / -19 )

By looking at the map you can easily see that Japan has an obession of isles known as islomania. It's very important for Japan to include every island they own and claim.

-13 ( +5 / -18 )

https://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-protests-dessert-served-north-korean-leader-kim/story?id=54718602

Payback's a you-know-what.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Japan has the same argument with China and Russia over islands.

Takeshima is inalienable Japanese territory

So what you are saying is that all the Koreans living on that island are there illegally?

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

Yup, another day, another SK whine fest.

Relations between Japan and South Korea have often been strained by lingering resentment over Japan's 1910-1945 occupation of the peninsula.

Just when you thought it was safe, cookie cutter journalism at its 'finest.'

4 ( +15 / -11 )

Ganbare Japan, be careful of what you wish. If S. Korea boycotts, N. Korea could easily follow suit showing a united front. Korea is a neighboring country and the tourists visiting the Olympics would be big revenue. If Korea boycotts it will not only tarnish the legacy of the Tokyo Olympics but also hurt economically. The Tokyo Olympics would have an asterisk by it just like Moscow and L.A.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

"It's very important for Japan to include every island they own and claim"

Japan has/must do this a matter of law, i.e. if they want to keep their claim alive; this is how International Law works, as far a territorial claims go.

China did not do this for over 50 years, re: Senkakus, thus lost any legal grounds to complain.

But JT "experts" totally oblivious of this fact, would argue on the contrary.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

South Korea put the Liancourt Rocks on the Pyongchang Olympic Flag. They can dish it out but can't take it.

JJ JetplaneToday  07:26 am JST

Takeshima is inalienable Japanese territory

So what you are saying is that all the Koreans living on that island are there illegally?

How many people, apart from South Korea Coast Guard personnel, live there?

"Nearly 1,200 foreigners are "living" on the easternmost Dokdo island, according to data released on Sunday. The foreigners are among 36,000 "honorary residents" recognized by the Dokdo management office on Ulleung Island, an inhabited island west of Dokdo.They do not actually live there, but are documented as residents in a promotional campaign for the island. Since 2010, the office has issued "honorary Dokdo residency" to certificate-seeking visitors regardless of nationality to promote South Korea's sovereignty over Dokdo."

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/01/281_242039.html

And yes, according to Japanese law, those actually living there are doing so illegally. South Korea could put that to an end if they had the courage to settle at the ICJ.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

If Korea boycotts it will not only tarnish the legacy of the Tokyo Olympics but also hurt economically. The Tokyo Olympics would have an asterisk by it just like Moscow and L.A.

It would also cause tensions to escalate to a level that no one wants to see as well. IF Korea boycotts because if this "map" issue alone, I doubt few countries in the world beyond NK would support them.

However with the trade disputes, the forced labor issues, and etc, the perfect storm may be brewing, as it would give Abe a huge black eye, and that is something he wants to avoid.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

"South Korea put the Liancourt Rocks on the Pyongchang Olympic Flag. They can dish it out but can't take it"

Exactly!

South Korea rips up treaty after treaty and Japan punches back and Korea runs and cries to the Americans.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

@OssanJapan

South Korea put the Liancourt Rocks on the Pyongchang Olympic Flag. 

They didn't in the 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics. See for yourself.

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/137211/645/344/0/94/800/520?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2018/02/09/korean-unity-historic-handshake-as-pyeongchang-winter-olympics-open-1518184418270.jpg

But you can bet they will for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

"They didn't in the 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics. See for yourself."

I did look for myself. Why don't read the following:

"The Japanese government is protesting the "unacceptable" inclusion of a group of disputed islands on the Korean unification flag that South Korea and North Korea are set to compete together under at the Winter Olympics."

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/02/06/korean-unification-flag-japan-protests/

2 ( +9 / -7 )

"But you can bet they will for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. "

and if they do. The Koreans will be sent home and they will ban from the Olympics, because it is against the rules.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

here is how to solve this dispute: put a tank on the island...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

An Olympic map that few people will ever see, and fewer will ever look at. But now being made famous by Korea. Seems like an own-goal to me.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@commanteer

Seems like an own-goal to me.

IOC will be forced to act and demand Japan take down the map or risk getting Japanese team banned from the Tokyo Olympics.

IOC is very strict about this kind of stuff.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

China started this kind of protest. One time the Chinese authority took aim at Uniqlo, saying the map on the back of its catalogue ,which show the no. if it's stores in each Asian country, did not put Taiwan as part of China. Uniqlo apologized and withdrew the catalogue. It is just a bloody catalogue! A while ago Russia was at the kind of thing. Now it is Korea's turn. This childish protesting is spreading

4 ( +6 / -2 )

when compared to official site which erased a country completely

1 ( +5 / -4 )

It's amazing how childish grown men can behave over possessions they don't need or even use.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

This childish protesting is spreading

Unless Japan does it, right? Remember the whole issue they had with the islands during Pyeongchang Winter Olympics 2018?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@OssanAmerica

Dokdo has two residents whose family has lived on the islands for over 150 years. They are not new to the island and has always lived on the island.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

I'm cool with it if S.K. boycotts the Olympics as well as their violent neighbor to the north. Don't really need them.

Could free up some of those much sought after tickets.

Japan should just declare Takeshima as another one of their million World Heritage Sites.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Rio Tinto should do everyone a favour and dig up the damn island, stick it on a pair of iron ore tankers and give half to Kobe Steel and the other half to Hyundai Steel.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Speed

They could apply but it would be rejected as a world heritage site.

Europe and America recognize it as a Korean territory and that Japan gave up control of all small islands during its surrender. Also, North Korea and China also lay claim to that same island so Japan would only waste its time by applying for it as a world heritage site

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I'm cool with it if S.K. boycotts the Olympics as well as their violent neighbor to the north. Don't really need them.

Amen. Most people in the world do not even know where or what Korea is...

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

JJ JetplaneToday  09:29 am JST

@OssanAmerica

Dokdo has two residents whose family has lived on the islands for over 150 years. They are not new to the island and has always lived on the island.

So you were referring to hal abeoji and halmeoni as "all the Koreans living on the island"?

JJ JetplaneToday  10:10 am JST

Europe and America recognize it as a Korean territory 

Could you provide a link support this statement?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

dbsaiyaToday  07:39 am JST

Ganbare Japan, be careful of what you wish. If S. Korea boycotts, N. Korea could easily follow suit showing a united front. Korea is a neighboring country and the tourists visiting the Olympics would be big revenue. If Korea boycotts it will not only tarnish the legacy of the Tokyo Olympics but also hurt economically. The Tokyo Olympics would have an asterisk by it just like Moscow and L.A.

No, it will not tarnish the legacy. Noone will even remember that Korea boycotted the olympics. Believe it or not, the rest of the world don't care about Korea-Japan dispute.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Idea: Put US forces, JSDF forces n SKorean forces. Make it a joint use land to protect all 3 call it humanitarian aid essential as its mission for peaceful means,

Of course China and Russia would have fit about it, but then no one stopped China from building on rocks and building a military post either. Just idea.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Solution: evacuate all humans from the Liancourt Rocks. Give them to the US Navy as a bombing and gunnery practice range. Problem solved in 48 hours.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

haha who cares, besides, it belongs to China!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Unless Japan does it, right? Remember the whole issue they had with the islands during Pyeongchang Winter Olympics 2018?

Good point.

Japan and SK can do the same thing over the same matter, but one side will be lauded and the other side ridiculed in this Japanocentric echo chamber. Nothing new.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

This was a dumb move by Japan. Forgetting the fact that they are South Korean, 100%, what Japan has done here is guarantee protests will mar the Olympics. So, on top of the inevitable deaths from the heat, it is also going to be known as an Olympics with extreme divisiveness instead of a moment of unity. They could have just left that part blank, but nope... Japan at is most nationalistic.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Who knew a world map can be so offensive - depending on who you let draw it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@OssanJapan

Could you provide a link support this statement?

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript-View/Article/1915743/media-availability-with-secretary-esper/

Media Availability With Secretary Esper

Secretary of Defense Dr. Mark T. Esper

Q: Mr. Secretary, good morning. My name's Tom Squitieri with Talk Media News.

What information can you provide to us, please, about the Russian intrusion, in the island in — in the Sea of Japan? That scrambled the South Korean fighters.

SEC. ESPER: Well, to the best of my recollection, it's not new that they — that the Russians have been flying routes south, right? To that area. I think it's — what's new is the fact that they did cross into South Korean airspace. And...

The US defense secretary acknowledging the Liancourt Rocks airspace as ROK airspace.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The matter needs to be settled by an impartial international tribunal. Neither Japan nor Korea will agree to it. Maybe Trump can settle it when he's finished sorting out the border issue between India and Pakistan, another couple of knotheaded countries who value grudges more than they value resolution.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@smithinjapan

what Japan has done here is guarantee protests will mar the Olympics. 

Japan's bigger problem is that the IOC has a strict policy of non-politics and Japan's map violates that.

Either the map goes or Japan gets sanctioned by the IOC. I can't imagine Japanese team getting banned in the Tokyo Olympics, but the decision is upon Japanese Olympic Committee.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

*SEC. ESPER**: Well, to the best of my recollection, it's not new that they — that the Russians have been flying routes south, right? To that area. I think it's — what's new is the fact that they did cross into South Korean airspace. And...*

The US defense secretary acknowledging the Liancourt Rocks airspace as ROK airspace.

No, an offhand comment about a defense incident is not the same as recognition. A long ways from it, in fact.

And no, the Olympic committee will not force Japan to change the map. They didn't force China to change their ridiculous maps.

It's just a stupid rock, guys. Grow up.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

IMO Japan lost all credibility and right to claim anything ever after its brutal attempt to exterminate Koreans from the face of the earth

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Amen. Most people in the world do not even know where or what Korea is...

Don’t judge other people’s knowledge by your own.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

Read the full version of the 1949 allied treaty.

Here is an excerpt from it.

Article 3. The Allied and Associated Powers agree that there shall be transferred in full sovereignty to the Republic of Korea all rights and titles to the Korean Mainland territory and all offshore Korean islands, including Quelpart(Saishu To), the Nan how group (San To, or Komun Do) which forms Port Hamilton(Tonaikai), Dagelet Island(Utsuryo To, or Matsu Shima), Liancourt Rocks(Takeshima), and all other islands and islets to which Japan had acquired title lying outside … and to the east of the meridian 124°15′E. longitude, north of the parallel 33°N. latitude, and west of a line from the seaward terminus of the boundary approximately three nautical miles from the mouth of the Tumen River to a point in 37°30′N. latitude, 132°40′E. longitude

Japan has mentioned that the San Francisco treaty of 1951 overturned the allied Treaty but no one can find any mention of Takeshima or Dokdo in the San Francisco treaty. So from that point on, the US refused to acknowledge anyone as owning the islands. The only part the US fully acknowledges was that Japan surrendered ownership of its islands during the allied treaty. But because it’s disputed by at least 4 countries, the US no longer publicly recognizes any ownership.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The foreigners are among 36,000 "honorary residents" recognized by the Dokdo management office on Ulleung Island, an inhabited island west of Dokdo

Ulleung Island is certainly not uninhabited, as a simple look at Google Maps will confirm.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I am for a successful Tokyo Olympics because I live in this town. Let’s hope the the whole Japan Korea problem can be put on pause during the Olympics or optimistically speaking, be resolved by 2020.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Boys, boys , boys!

Both sides, “He started it!!!!”

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@quercetum

Let’s hope the the whole Japan Korea problem can be put on pause during the Olympic

You don't get it. The IOC alone has the final say in what map the Japanese Olympic Committee can use with regards to the Tokyo Olympics.

Per IOC regulations, the Japanese Olympic Committee is required to remove not just the Liancourt Rocks, but the Southern Kurils, and the Diaoyu Islands from the map, or else face consequences for the politicization of territorial disputes not allowed by the IOC.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Korea are being babies, seriously! The US has even stepped in and said this land is Japan's move The F on please.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is even comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima. Has any Japanese here thought about this discrepancy?

There is another small island called 'bamboo island' (Jukdo 竹島 in Korean) at 2 km (1 mile) east of Ulleungdo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukdo_(island)

You may see those abundant bamboos there: https://wayfaringflaneur.com/2018/09/02/jukdo%EC%A3%BD%EB%8F%84-bamboo-island/

Long times ago, Japanese fishermen certainly recognized the existence of Jukdo 竹島 near Ulleungdo island. At that time, Takeshima did not designate the Liancourt Rocks, but Jukdo to Japanese fishermen. Both Jukdo and Ulleungo are now Korean territories that Japan and the other countries acknowledge. Now the Japanese government claims the territorial right with a wrong name or a wrong location. Wake up. There is no bamboo in the Japanese 'Takeshima'.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

@Samit BasuToday  03:23 pm JST

You don't get it. The IOC alone has the final say in what map the Japanese Olympic Committee can use with regards to the Tokyo Olympics.

Per IOC regulations, the Japanese Olympic Committee is required to remove not just the Liancourt Rocks, but the Southern Kurils, and the Diaoyu Islands from the map, or else face consequences for the politicization of territorial disputes not allowed by the IOC.

If the goal is not to politicize, then insisting that claimed lands be left off the map is in itself a political stance. In essence, IOC would have violated its neutrality to stand on another country's side. I'm not saying they won't necessarily rule this way, just that such a decision seems contradictory to an apolitical stance.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Amen. Most people in the world do not even know where or what Korea is...

Actually, most people in the world, including most children do know where Korea is.

Have you never heard of Geography lessons?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Actually, most people in the world, including most children do know where Korea is.

Mmm, actually I would bet only a small person of humanity would be able to point out Korea on a map with no names.

But to be fair, the same could be said about almost any country. People know their own countries, and the countries bordering them. Once you get passed that, the number of countries known get less and less. At that point, people only know countries that they have taken a specific interest in, or has shown up with maps on the news etc.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Mmm, actually I would bet only a small person of humanity would be able to point out Korea on a map with no names.

Mmm, I suppose I am lucky coming from an advanced country where we studied geography at primary school level.

I remember the big globe in the geography room.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

expatToday  01:00 pm JST

The matter needs to be settled by an impartial international tribunal. Neither Japan nor Korea will agree to it. 

Wrong. Japan has asked South Korea to settle the Liancourt Rocks dispute at the ICJ THREE TIMES and South Korea has refused each time.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

JJ JetplaneToday  01:17 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

Do some reading yourself.

"During numerous drafts of peace treaties, the position of the U.S. changed in regards to the Liancourt Rocks. While at the beginning it had placed them outside Japanese boundaries, in November 1949 William Sebald, acting as political advisor to Japan recommended reconsideration in regards to the rocks. Following his advice, the Liancourt Rocks were added to the islands that were to remain part of Japan. Meanwhile the U.S. and the U.K. were continuing drafting peace treaties which would satisfy all parties. And while the U.S. now included the Liancourt Rocks as Japanese territory, the U.K. draft placed them outside Japanese jurisdiction. Ultimately the U.K. version was scrapped and the final draft included the renunciation of Quelpart (Jeju Island), Port Hamilton and Dagelet (Ulleungdo Island), but made no mention of the Liancourt Rocks. In a request of the Korean ambassador to the U.S., Assistant Secretary of State Dean Rusk replied that the Liancourt Rocks were never treated as part of Korea and have been under the jurisdiction of the Shimane province since 1905.

The 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty states;

" Chapter II, Article 2 states that “Japan, recognizing the independence of Korea, renounces all right, title and claim to Korea, including the islands of Quelpart, Port Hamilton and Dagelet.”

Note that tje Liancourt Rocks are not included.

But the most significant evidence of the U.S. view is in this exachange between the US SEc of State and tje Korean Ambassador:

"A correspondence from 1951 between Dean Rusk and the South Korean ambassador in Washington D.C. was publicized which stated: “As regards the island of Dokdo, otherwise known as Takeshima or Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea.“ (Wikisource Rusk) and further added in this publication: “We have publicly declared our view that this Island belongs to Japan, but no one in Japan or elsewhere seriously expects us to take military action under the Security Treaty to reclaim this Island for Japan. I think we need not feel undue anxiety even in the unlikely contingency that Japan should invoke the Security Treaty with respect to the Liancourt Rocks.”

https://www.academia.edu/29536003/The_U.S._Stuck_Between_a_Rock_and_a_Hard_Place_The_Role_of_the_United_States_in_the_Liancourt_Rocks_dispute_amid_Japan_and_South_Korea?auto=download

5 ( +7 / -2 )

People seem to not understand, your reading from a Japanese source. Looking for anything to blame Korea for this trade war. HOWEVER, this trade war was provoked by Japan. I, as a korean-japanese, am really upset with the Japanese government because they act if they're such a respectful country. Which is not true, since they couldn't even handle the truth of Korea's Comfort women during a UN peacekeeping speech. It's time to own up to the fact that we Japanese took alot of Korea's land and alot of war crimes happened that has not yet been own up too. Imagine the Germans trying to ignore the holoucut; it's just not right.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You don't get it. The IOC alone has the final say in what map the Japanese Olympic Committee can use with regards to the Tokyo Olympics.

I mean the whole dispute not just the islands.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It is obviously called a disputed island for a reason. Who cares about history, right now Japan has nothing but claims for the island. If Japan wanted to protect this from the Russians where were the Japanese planes protecting it? At this moment in time it is Korean owned and if you wish to dispute this fact why don't you go a head and try visit the island from Japan!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@SJ

Wake up. There is no bamboo in the Japanese 'Takeshima'.

I understand what you’re trying to say but I think you’re way out on a limb. The name of the island is just a name.

But another nearby island has bamboo. So what? Maybe there once were bamboos on Takeshima or Dokdo. Namiseom or Nami Island in Chuncheon, Gangwon, was named after a General Nami. Maybe the Takeshima 竹島 clan once inhabited the island. Why does the island have to have bamboos for it to be legitimately Japanese?

If Dokdo was named after a General Kim (金) and gold has never been discovered on the island, then it must not belong to Korea?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@quercetum

The name of the island is just a name.

If so, then try to answer my question. No Japanese has yet answered my question

There are several other islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) in Japan, and please find any island where there is no bamboo like Japanese Takeshima,

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%B9%E5%B3%B6

No 1. 竹島 (愛知県) - 愛知県蒲郡市の島

No 2. 竹島 (鹿児島県) - 鹿児島県三島村の島

No 3. 竹島 (熊本県) - 熊本県天草市の島

No 4. 竹島 (宮城県) - 宮城県南三陸町の島

No 5. 竹島 (山口県) - 山口県山口市の島

No 6. 多景島 - 別名「竹島」。琵琶湖の島の1つ

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So that there is no Bamboo growing on the Liancourt Rocks is suppose to mean something?

Dokdo  독도; Hanja: 獨島, does not describe the Liancourt Rocks either since there are two main islands in addition to surrounding rocks.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

So that there is no Bamboo growing on the Liancourt Rocks is suppose to mean something?

Dokdo 독도; Hanja: 獨島, does not describe the Liancourt Rocks either since there are two main islands in addition to surrounding rocks.

Yes. A good question.

The Chinese character '獨' was used to express the sound of 'dol' in Korean, which means 'rock'. There is no Chinese character that sounds 'dol' in Korea. 獨島 means 'rock island' in Korean. Of course, bamboo can not survive and grow on rocks.

BTW, please try to answer my question above: There are several other islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) in Japan, and please find any island where there is no bamboo.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

SJToday  03:51 am JST

BTW, please try to answer my question above: There are several other islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) in Japan, and please find any island where there is no bamboo.

Rather than ask such a pointless question, please answer this question:

How many South Koreans does it take to resolve this dispute for good?

Answer: One, to go before the International Court of Justice as Japan has suggested THREE times.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica

If S. Korea claims that Tsushima island belongs to Korea, will Japanese government agree to go to the ICJ? Please answer with Yes/No.

All 6 islands called bamboo island (takeshima) in Japan have bamboo. But only one island called takeshima does not have bamboo, and can you suggest a reason for the exception?

I already explained it. You never can explain it without accepting my explanation. Isn't it so obvious to you?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

There are several other islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) in Japan, and please find any island where there is no bamboo.

Reminds me of that time I went to elephant island in Thailand, and there were elephants everywhere.

...oh wait.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

SJToday  05:18 am JST

@OssanAmerica

If S. Korea claims that Tsushima island belongs to Korea, will Japanese government agree to go to the ICJ? Please answer with Yes/No.

Yes. Because Japan is a signatory to an agreement that accepts ICJ jurisdiction and it's rulings. Whereas South Korea is not.

The real question you should ask is Would South Korea become a responsible nation and sign the declaration in order to bring a case regarding Tsushima? Yes or No?

https://www.icj-cij.org/en/declarations

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@SJ

If S. Korea claims that Tsushima island belongs to Korea, will Japanese government agree to go to the ICJ? Please answer with Yes/No.

Yes, because Japan thinks it will win.

But no on the Diaoyu Islands. Japan refuses to accept Taiwan's ICJ challenges because Japan knows it will lose, Japan agreed to hand over the Diaoyu Islands to the "Republic of China" as the condition of surrender, so ICJ will award the Diaoyu Islands to Taiwan if the case ever went to the ICJ.

So Japan is pretty selective about which cases to accept and which cases to reject. Japan will not accept Diaoyu Islands and whaling challenges at the ICJ because Japan believes it will lose....

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

So Japan is pretty selective about which cases to accept and which cases to reject. Japan will not accept Diaoyu Islands and whaling challenges at the ICJ because Japan believes it will lose....

How does this have relevance to your Korean position? Maybe strategically it does, but it has no bearing on whether the islands are actually Japan's or Korea's.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Strangerland

How does this have relevance to your Korean position? 

Japan is not such a noble country that it accepts all ICJ challenges regardless of probable outcome. Japan is quite selective in what ICJ challenges it accepts and rejects.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Japan is not such a noble country that it accepts all ICJ challenges regardless of probable outcome. Japan is quite selective in what ICJ challenges it accepts and rejects.

And how does that have relevance to your Korean position?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japanese and Koreans are so similar.

Both overly proud and stubborn,this is one of the reasons why they keep clashing on each other.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@OssanAmerica

Yes. Because Japan is a signatory to an agreement that accepts ICJ jurisdiction and it's rulings. Whereas South Korea is not.

Oh. Thanks for your quick reply. May I ask one more question?

If S. Korea claims that Tokyo belongs to Korea, will Japanese government agree to go to the ICJ?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

SJToday  02:22 am JST

@quercetum

The name of the island is just a name.

If so, then try to answer my question. No Japanese has yet answered my question

There are several other islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) in Japan, and please find any island where there is no bamboo like Japanese Takeshima,

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%B9%E5%B3%B6

No 1. 竹島 (愛知県) - 愛知県蒲郡市の島

No 2. 竹島 (鹿児島県) - 鹿児島県三島村の島

No 3. 竹島 (熊本県) - 熊本県天草市の島

No 4. 竹島 (宮城県) - 宮城県南三陸町の島

No 5. 竹島 (山口県) - 山口県山口市の島

No 6. 多景島 - 別名「竹島」。琵琶湖の島の1つ

This is exactly my point SJ, you're caught up on this bamboo and bamboo growing on the island. It isn't enough to draw any conclusions. You actually think the International Court of Justice is going to look at that as a factor? in a territorial dispute?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@SJ

False equivalence. No nation could dream of taking such a frivolous case to any court, nevermind the ICJ.

You're demonstrating an absolutely lack of any legal understanding.

What Ossan is pointing out to you is that while Japan has legally declared that it recognizes the jurisdiction (decision) of the Court as compulsory, Korean and the Chinas have not, therefore there would be no point in doing so. It could win but the decision would not be binding or enforceable.

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@SJ Today 01:20 pm JST

If S. Korea claims that Tokyo belongs to Korea, will Japanese government agree to go to the ICJ?

Are you seriously proposing that Koreans sincerely believe that Dokdo is as central, or their claim to it as sound, as Japan's claim over its capital?

Korea's case has two huge weaknesses (similar to China over Senkaku), and they know it. Japan followed the recognized modern procedure to incorporate both those places, to no objections by the two parties. So the "Special Asians" are playing catch up from the get go (that's why some Western scholars like to make the case for them - Japan's case is so simple and solid they can't make a paper, website or blog out of it, while the Chinese and Koreans have to assemble thousands of little "historical" pieces and cataloging them can fill a book. It's like attacking someone who duly filed his claim in the Lands Registry when you did not.

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I did not ask you about the ICJ in your imagination. Please try to explain why there is no bamboo in the Japanese bamboo island called Dokdo in Korea, while all other islands called Takeshima in Japan have bamboo. If Japan can not explain it, they will lose in my own imaginary ICJ.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Please try to explain why there is no bamboo in the Japanese bamboo island called Dokdo in Korea, while all other islands called Takeshima in Japan have bamboo.

Because bamboo is something that exists in Japan, and they named it after that.

Done.

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@Ex_ResJ

Actually, most people in the world, including most children do know where Korea is.

There's a video on Youtube of a TV presenter going around asking Americans to point out Korea on a map and asking what the US should do to North Korea.

Only it's not Korea that labelled but Australia (as North Korea) and Tasmania (as South Korea). None of them got it was a joke, most of them came out with the usual "nuke it into a sheet of glass" type comments. I remember one saying, "I did not realize North Korea (Australia) was so big".

No they don't.

This is my point. Most people knew nothing about Korea and so it had a chance to make a good first impression. Instead, it's choosing to portray itself as a nation of dishonest, money grabbing, angry crazies.

Psy? He was great PR.

Hot K-Pop girl bands doing copying J-Pop girl bands? Good PR again.

Even and kimchi is on the way up as a healthfood.

All this, the comfort women stuff. Very damaging PR.

Korea needs to see the big picture, and long term, and stop trying to extort Japan.

Oh, and sex trafficking women overseas to rub and tug outfits all over Japan and America.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki nails it with Japan's formal, legal correctness and all SJ can come with is an argument based on whether bamboo grows there or not!?!

Kazuaki, you got it 100% right.

The islands are called 竹 because they look like a clump of bamboo sticking up out of the ocean.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It is Dokdo and definately Korea's island. see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks_dispute

It always has been and will be Koreans territory. Don't be greedy Japanese.

GOOD LUCK JAPAN.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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