As Japan aligns with U.S. chip curbs on China, some in Tokyo feel uneasy

worrying some officials in Tokyo who believe a combative U.S. approach may hamper coordination and needlessly provoke Beijing.

Not only provoking Beijing, some Japanese company lost customer because of this. For what? Just to align unnecessarily foreign policy other country?

Tokyo remains worried that targeting China will provoke damaging retaliation, such as a ban on Japanese electric cars, a third Japanese industry official said.

> > > > …

China doesn’t need Japanese cars, they have an ample supply of their own

It doesn't matter how people in Tokyo feel when it comes to us policy regarding the US. Of the US names China, it's alright. China should be named. The rest of the world should know the CCP is up to no good. These sanctions hurt China precisely where they should ---in her gaudy shoddily made purse. Japan should protect itself from China producing semiconductors, especially now since a huge Taiwanese manufacturer invested massive amounts of money into Kumamoto. China doesn't need electric cars from Japan. Japan needs foreign investment, money and protection, and therefore should stop whining and moaning about trivial things.

China only has itself to blame. The government pays people to steal technology from countries such as the US so they can sell it back to them as cut rate prices. Maybe that was tolerated for commercial products, but defense? That's a bridge too far.

China has their own indigenous chip making technologies. And they are going to hit 24nm next year or so. Then 14nm.

China is currently the only nation that has the chip making technology for the entire process. From ion implanters to steppers to vapor deposition, etc.

The US will be the only one that will need to go on a building spree to refine rare earth metals. And for Ge and Ga, they are trace metals from refining massive amounts of aluminum. The US will have issues refining those metals.

It will cost a lot while China gets theirs from refining aluminum for their own use.

Yes, there are deposits of rare-earths in North Dakota, Wyoming, and Alaska. As long as the U.S. has a democratic president, the Federal Government will most likely not issue the required permits to mine these rare-earths.

Presently the U.S. has only one active rare-earth mine—-in California—which interestingly sends its mining concentrates to China for processing. So it depends on how far the US wants to keep this up.

Nvidia, Qualcomm and Intel do not support e port restrictions. They are interested in the Chinese market and not in getting Biden re-elected.

The US has accepted that it cannot compete in manufacturing, so is reverting to trade blocks. I'm surprised that China hasn't retaliated more. They don't need US cash as much as the US need Chinese raw materials and consumer goods. State control in China allows them considerable margin to fiddle figures, which nobody believes anyway. Meanwhile, Biden's attempt to import Taiwan's chipmaking (so they can trash it in Taiwan if the Chinese move in) has hit a wall - not enough skilled labour. Ultimately, trade wars are self-defeating as they work both ways and trash both sides. The damage will be more intense now, as a trade war would impact on any green transition. You can improve climate resilience and green tech, or you can block trade for political reasons. You can't do both. Chucking the future of humanity away because you don't want China making faster chips (when they have been making your chips for decades) is crazy. And as for the fear that better chips win wars, well they don't - Ukraine is proof of that. US tech hasn't got rid of Russia's steampunk war machine. As a testbed for NATO v BRICS military tech, it is looking like a stalemate, with the place getting progressively trashed.

Good - let's not make the same mistake we did with Russia. Cut off the Chinese dependencies now, before it's too late. A few companies will lose some sales but:

1) there are many other markets

2) the impact will be much, much worse later down the line if we allow China to build up its military with the latest tech, and take Taiwan (its stated aim)

Presently the U.S. has only one active rare-earth mine

There are deposits in a lot more places than the U.S., even if they're not currently active in processing. You can bet these will be developed and ramped up as necessary. The U.S. has a lot of friends for friendshoring; China only has fair-weather friends that it keeps onside through bribery and intimidation. These fair-weather friends will fail it when the time comes.

When Japan follows America, it will likely gain insight into the rationale behind the global imperative to safeguard against the actions or policies of the China.

This understanding could stem from a variety of factors, including concerns over security, geopolitical interests, economic interdependence, human rights considerations, or the adherence to international agreements and norms.

Such observations might lead to the recognition of potential challenges or risks posed by China, prompting the international community to adopt measures aimed at preserving stability, peace, and the welfare of nations.

"What advantage is there to making someone lose face, unless that is your objective."

It is not about making someone lose face, it's about Japan doing as it is told by the US. Even if this goes against its own national interests.

USA is the master and Japan its puppet!

Project 5150 NumbskullToday 09:33 am JST

China is way ahead in the chip/wafer building technologies and they are full steam ahead

Shows just how pathetic and desperate the US is.

No, Taiwan has the most advanced tech and foundries. In terms of the supply chain, Japan has key materials, the Netherlands has key machinery and the US has key R&D. China doesn't have key anything, apart from rare earths, which can be sourced elsewhere.

https://cset.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/The-Semiconductor-Supply-Chain-Issue-Brief.pdf

The United States and its allies specialize in different supply chain segments. The United States dominates R&D and has strong capabilities across all segments. However, it lacks firms in certain key subsectors, especially photolithography tools (the most expensive and complex form of SME) and the most advanced chip factories (especially “foundries,” which manufacture chips for third parties). South Korea specializes in all production steps, but also produces significant amounts of materials and some SME.

Taiwan is dominant in the most advanced manufacturing and ATP, and produces some materials. By contrast, Japan specializes in SME and materials, and it produces many older technology semiconductors. Europe (especially the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and Germany), meanwhile, specializes in SME (especially photolithography tools), materials, and core IP.

EastmanToday 09:52 am JST

this is how it looks like when Japan is pushed by US to act against its own national interests and act in name of US interestests ONLY.

Preventing China from building up its military and taking Taiwan is 100% Japan's national interest.

It's also in the national interest of every other country in the region other than North Korea (and possibly Russia), and across the world, due to the sheer amount of shipping that passes through the Taiwan strait.

“China only has itself to blame.”

Hear, hear! Don’t feel bad for China. They did it to themselves.

China has their own indigenous chip making technologies. And they are going to hit 24nm next year or so. Then 14nm. 

Not very impressive and the others are not going to wait.

China is currently the only nation that has the chip making technology for the entire process. From ion implanters to steppers to vapor deposition, etc.

Its an advantage only if you play against other isolated countries like Russia, or North Korea or Iran.

The US will be the only one that will need to go on a building spree to refine rare earth metals. And for Ge and Ga, they are trace metals from refining massive amounts of aluminum. The US will have issues refining those metals.

It will cost a lot while China gets theirs from refining aluminum for their own use.

Yes, there are deposits of rare-earths in North Dakota, Wyoming, and Alaska. As long as the U.S. has a democratic president, the Federal Government will most likely not issue the required permits to mine these rare-earths.

Again, assumptions of isolated countries. There are no restrictions to buy anything anywhere for anyone except for China and a few other countries.

Thanks to President Biden, the U.S. will return to building it's own microchips (an American invention). China's economy is slowing while America's economy is growing. More manufacturing jobs have returned to America in the last 3 years than in the past 10 years. China has only two allies, one is dirt poor and the other is losing a war. America has over 90 military allies/partners and trade agreements with well over 120 nations. The CCP's failed policies are finally being seen by the world. And while it fancies itself an equal to the United States, the reality is that it is no match either militarily or economically and will not be for many many years if ever. Xi isn't stupid, he knows China needs America but America does not need China.

There are no restrictions to buy anything anywhere for anyone except for China and a few other countries.

Where? and at competitive prices? Perhaps years later.

China doesn't have key anything, apart from rare earths, which can be sourced elsewhere.

Again where? China produces 95% of the world's gallium. "We'll just get'em form somewhere else" means you can't perform.

China has only two allies, one is dirt poor and the other is losing a war. 

Your knowledge on China is quite limited, but we can still make something out of it.

This is a fundamental difference in ways of thinking. There is no really need to be friends. China places emphasis on developments and projects. You want to build something? China will loan you the money and build it for you. Sometimes China will even build you a parliament for free (Zimbabwe). It's about money and leverage. If China's not your friend, you are correct. Neither is the US a friend to the UK in that line of thinking. Talk about loans.

Is there a need to be friends with your clients? It's a business relationship. When Wang Yi calls Blinken and old friend, you don't really take that literally do you?

And what benefits have Japan and Korea received from being friends with the US? 3Trillion Won loss in a single quarter for Samsung. Trade surplus down the drain for Korea.

How did the US help its friend, China R.O.C. in the Chinese Civil War? Look what happened to them, fleeing their homeland to a tiny island only to be thrown underneath the bus in '72.

The US just pulled the plug on R.O.C. Taiwan like they did with Afghanistan and South Vietnam. France and Britian in the Suez crisis. France with the submarines. Independent countries learn to be self-sufficient. Only weak ones need "friends."

Thanks to President Biden, the U.S. will return to building it's own microchips

Two things, without the market in china, you can build these chips but you won't have as many buyers. You won't have the Chinese market which is what the US chipmakers want. You seem to equate the Semiconductor Industry Association and the BIden administration as a single entity. They are not. One is a lobbyist. The other take orders from lobbyists.

Without raw materials from China, you won't be able to produce competitively. How may chips is Canada going to buy? Are you going to ask Japan to buy chips from the US instead of Japanese makers? You expect Korean to buy US chips instead of from Samsung?

Lastly, as mentioned here, TSMC is facing obstacles in Arizona. How was Foxconn doing in Wisconsin?

quercetumToday 03:26 pm JST

Germany, South Korea, and Japan owe their existence today thanks to the US. That is what the US has accomplished.

The US just pulled the plug on R.O.C. Taiwan like they did with Afghanistan and South Vietnam.

The US did no such thing. Our president has said the US will go in to defend Taiwan and Xi has backed off accordingly.

Only weak ones need "friends."

China is not the world. As they age out into middle income, we will see what the true limit of China's strength is. The civilized countries, meanwhile, need friends.

quercetumToday 02:52 pm JST

Again where?

Vietnam, India, Brazil, Australia, the US, etc.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/rare-earth-elements-where-in-the-world-are-they/

Longer term, even places like Sweden have them:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/13/rare-earth-metals-sweden-discovery/

Even though such countries don't have the mining/refinery operations that China has, this can be built. The technology is well-known, and there is nothing difficult about it. It may take time, but as a high-priority area it's eminently achievable with the combined efforts of the US and her many allies.

Countries have been well aware of the dependency on China for a long time, and are taking steps to address this.

China will even build you a parliament for free (Zimbabwe).

Zimbabwe had better sweep it thoroughly for listening devices. Look what China did when it built the African Union building:

https://www.cfr.org/blog/african-union-bugged-china-cyber-espionage-evidence-strategic-shifts

The US did no such thing. Our president has said the US will go in to defend Taiwan and Xi has backed off accordingly.

Xi was only 7 years old at the time. Okay so you don't know modern Chinese history so well.

US completely withdrew all its support from China and cut off all financial and military aid to China. Below is an example of the undying support of the US.

Unconditional implementation of obligations by United States Government as member of United Nations by withdrawing all American forces from China, ceasing all financial and military aid to Chiang Kai-shek dictatorial government which is waging civil war and betraying national interests, ceasing Lend-Lease and withdrawing all surplus property of American forces in China and Pacific, withdrawing United States military advisory mission helping Chiang Kai-shek to direct civil war operations, and paying reparations for atrocities and damage to life and property committed by American forces in China.

Zimbabwe had better sweep it thoroughly for listening devices. Look what China did when it built the African Union building:

Yes, obviously they gifted a building where every square inch is bugged and monitored.

quercetumToday 04:25 pm JST

Unconditional implementation of obligations by United States Government as member of United Nations by withdrawing all American forces from China, ceasing all financial and military aid to Chiang Kai-shek dictatorial government which is waging civil war and betraying national interests, ceasing Lend-Lease and withdrawing all surplus property of American forces in China and Pacific, withdrawing United States military advisory mission helping Chiang Kai-shek to direct civil war operations, and paying reparations for atrocities and damage to life and property committed by American forces in China.

A garbage statement of the CCP means nothing by itself. You should be thankful the US allowed the CCP and its Soviet backers to have their victory. You'll note, though, that exactly all of these provisions were violated very shortly as the US realized the vital role in maintaining the ROC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan%E2%80%93United_States_relations#WWII-democratization

In any event, Chiang Kai‐shek is long dead and the relevance of bringing this up fading every second.

Chinese businesses have spent years building relations in Japan, and now official Japanese policy threatens those business relationships. The moaning and quivering has only just begun! Unless Japan passes a stiff law with clear, strict penalties to those businesses who continue to sell the sensitive equipment, this necessary alignment of Japan with the US is bound to fail ...

As long as Japan and the US keep supporting a free Taiwan, the real China, I am ok with sanctions against the mainland communist regime with no freedoms for its people.

There is nothing to be gained from South Korea or Japan supporting China.

Korea's semiconductor sales have fallen because it has not sought customers outside of China and is lagging behind Taiwan in terms of technological innovation.

In the case of Korea, it is nothing but self-serving.

To some extent, Japan is moving forward with the United States, and is actively participating in alliances such as chip 4 in the United States, Taiwan, Japan, and the Netherlands.

Thanks to that, TSMC and Micron's factories can be built one after another.

Japan's security cannot be protected at all, and employment in Japan cannot be created by taking sides with China, which is invading its territory. It's just a big waste.

Time for Japan to man up and carefully consider the consequences of being a marshmallow.

CCP/China rightfully belongs to the stone age. Free nations should help it regain its position there. But first they have to fortify themselves, e.g., by ridding their media of Chinese botnets spreading pro-CCP propaganda.