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Japan, led by less apologetic generation, stays tough in S Korea feud

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By Linda Sieg

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Relations soured in 2015 when Korea reneged on the 'final and irreversible' agreement -

26 ( +36 / -10 )

"less apologetic" Translation: nonco-operative and psychopathically aggressive (Lest We Forget the LAST TIME and how that worked out).

5 ( +13 / -8 )

[ "There has been a generational shift," said Andrew Horvat, a visiting professor at Josai International University.

"Those who saw Korean conscript laborers in their emaciated condition forced to work in Japanese mines and companies have died or are very, very old," he said.

"The failure to reach consensus on a difficult past ... has resulted in a lack of tolerance in a new generation that sees things in a less nuanced manner, devoid of real experience." ]

[ Diplomats have reached out to domestic and foreign media with detailed briefings and handouts on the dispute.

"I think there is very strong pressure, especially toward major media such as NHK," said Kozo Nagata, a former NHK producer and professor of media studies at Musashi University. ]

[ Electoral system changes and three years in opposition helped ultra-conservative lawmakers and lobby groups strengthen their clout in the LDP.

"It's like the NRA (National Rifle Association) in the United States. A very small group ... can leverage the democratic system in a direction the majority do not wish to go," Horvat said.

Pressure inside the LDP for a tough stance is strong.

In June, Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya came under fire from party colleagues for smiling before cameras at a meeting with his South Korean counterpart. ]

Interesting how different an issue can be presented depending on who is researching and writing-

https://www.reutersbest.com/articles/view/3205/journalist-spotlight-linda-sieg-on-reuters-award-winning-abenomics-coverage

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

A survey by the conservative Sankei newspaper and Fuji News Network released on Monday showed two-thirds of respondents backed removing South Korea from the fast-track export list, but nearly 60% also worried about future ties.

The writer cherry-picked this survey to prove her point. The Sankei Shimbun has a much smaller national circulation than Yomiuri, Asahi, Mainichi or Nikkei. It would be better to see some balance with a second citation showing either similar or different results.

Nice to see Professor Horvat is still in the game. He was a great journalist in his time

15 ( +16 / -1 )

"As for the younger generation, they have no knowledge base, but they have a sense the Koreans are intractable," he said.

The Japanese have never been taught their own history adequately, what they receive here is a whitewashed version!

The horrors and misery that imperial Japan meted out on its Korean colony were disgusting where Korean identity was on a course for extinction.

Not many Japanese know that!

-9 ( +23 / -32 )

You do not need to write an essay or write a lot to explain it. People simply just do not like others digging up the past. Especially when it is a shameful one.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

Right, go ahead as usual and blame non-entities for this mess.

The South Korean government, along with its anti-Japan fan base both domestic and abroad, deserves full blame for deliberately antagonizing Japan unnecessarily the past several decades. Undermining and reneging on official government agreements. Continually stirring up racial hatred against all things Japan, from a young age throughout adulthood. Using every perceived slight as excuse to bash Japan.

They do all this, and then smugly shout out, "b-b-but Japan has 'never' apologized or compensated for its past." The very same country that endlessly crucifies Japan for 'whitewashing' its history, is the very same country that does the exact same thing.

This trade friction could have been done and over with in a short time, but nope, Moon and his inane cronies simply had to cover for its own failures by stirring up anti-Japan sentiments.

What a joke.

25 ( +39 / -14 )

It would be interesting if someone studied the relationship between election timeline in Korea, and the inter Japanese-Korean atmosphere. I bet all the politicians in Korea try to stir the things up, to cause a scandal in order to make them look stronger in the eyes of the electorate

18 ( +22 / -4 )

When you made a mistake, you apologize for it, as simple as that. On the other hand, Kono isn't different from his father, it is Abe's policy that make matters complicated.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

SK people can do anything they want. It's not the matter of money. It's not any kind of conflict or dispute. It's the determination of Japanese people. It's sure Japan will get something damages. But it's OK. It's the matter of dignity of the country. For children, Japan should protect its dignity as an independent country.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

yoshi, what independent country are you talking about ? You always sate it that way as if Japan is independent. What is your international standard ?

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

Japan has never been apologetic in the first place. They are rather tired of trying to appear apologetic. The young generation in Japan are more willing to sympathize with Korea, but because of the revisionist education and nationalists-run media, young people in Japan have no idea why are Koreans so angry. They are misled to believe Japan never did anything wrong, and whatever wrong is done, they have paid for it. So, when they keep seeing Koreans protesting, they can't understand why, and they start to subscribe to the media narrative that Koreans are unreasonable and have anti-Japanese education.

It's really scary to think about how you can brainwash an entire population in 2019.

There is also a cultural element to it as well. Even if most Japanese spoke English, is it rather unlikely that they would seek information from non-Japanese sources, the same way, most English people do not seek information from non-British sources. It's a messy mix of a island mentality, a culture of conformity to majority opinion, and lack of exposure to information. A minority pushes certain narrative, the media blows it up, and most people conform to it, thereby becoming majority opinion to which other people conform and nobody wants to question it, because nobody wants to stand out.

-6 ( +22 / -28 )

"I think there is very strong pressure, especially toward major media such as NHK," said Kozo Nagata, a former NHK producer and professor of media studies at Musashi University.

Opinion polls show Japanese are mostly supportive of the government's tough stance.

This summarizes well the current status of press freedom in Japan, and how easily Abe can manipulate and brainwash naive and obedient Japaneses. Abe recants what his predecessors have done, losing Japanese credibility from the world.

The rulings of the Korea supreme court in 2012 and 2018 are a domestic and civil issue, neither Japanese or Korean government is allowed to meddle in. I do not think Abe is so much ignorant not to know this, but he brainwashed ordinary Japaneses to believe that the the Korean supreme court provoked Japan first. The fact is that it is logically, diplomatically or legally impossible. The Abe administration will never bring this issue to the ICJ, as they know very well not only they will be lose, but also may have to sell the entire Japan to pay for damage compensation in S. Korea, N. Korea, China and etc. I believe they are no so much foolish, but I will be happy they are indeed so much ignorant to commit another Kamikaze attack in the form of international judiciary.

-18 ( +10 / -28 )

In general, northeast Asians are very tolerant and generous people. However, the repeated visiting of the Shines by PM Abe and his massive govt members just too much for people to ignore.

-19 ( +12 / -31 )

Someone here mentioned the agreement in 2015 over the issue of sex slaves had to be final and irrevocable. "Irrevocable" doesn't mean nobody can bring up the issue. Even back then, the two governments interpreted the expression differently. The agreement lacked procedural legitimacy, internally and externally. Because there are real victims, it cannot be a subject of a multinational agreement. Any other people or governmental apparatus can't represent the individual victim's right without consent. Well, It seems that Japanese people don't think so. The Japanese government processed the deal when the president of Korea was about to be impeached. It was truly cunning and inappropriate to use the neighbor's unrest as another chance. 

Finally, if you want to understand what's happening in Japan, you should know about the Japan Conference (Nippon Kaigi). The current prime minister and most of the cabinet are the members of this far-right group. We are witnessing the last struggling of Social Darwinism and Imperialism in two island countries in Europe and Asia. I wish Japanese civil society could wake up.

-3 ( +15 / -18 )

Ilovecoffee nailed it perfectly, but his/her analysis is untranslatable. Few Japanese will ever get to see, hear or read how their minds are being manipulated by the Japanese MSM. This, of course, applies to most countries, but the mono-lingual Japanese are particularly vulnerable, as they were in WW2, to propaganda disseminated by the elites.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

"The reality of historical redress settlements is that it boils down to a cost-benefit matrix," Underwood said.

"It is only when the costs of perpetual intransigence are perceived as greater than the costs of settlement that anyone moves," he added.

This is the most important point in the article and an important concept to keep in mind when considering the current situation.

But honestly, Tokyo is probably going to wait to out and negotiate with the next SK leader who hopefully is more competent.

In the mean time it will be just Tit for Tat if SK hurts Japanese interest then Japan will hurt Korean interest.

If this is the case, Japan will come out on top due to economic scales and demographics.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

IloveCoffeeToday  07:59 am JST

Japan has never been apologetic in the first place. They are rather tired of trying to appear apologetic. The young generation in Japan are more willing to sympathize with Korea, but because of the revisionist education and nationalists-run media, young people in Japan have no idea why are Koreans so angry. 

The young generation in Japan give as much hoot about WWII as the young generation in the US, UK, Germany, Australia, etc. That's because these nations and their societies moved on. Whereas in South Korea the hate carried on from generation to generation along with the historical revisionism.

I don't know why the South Koreans are so angry either....

"During the war, Japan drafted about 240,000 Koreans to serve as "Japanese" soldiers or as civilian workers.

Of these Korean recruits, 148 were convicted as Class-B/C war criminals for war crimes and for abusing POWs, and 23 were hanged"

https://apjjf.org/-Aiko-Utsumi/2505/article.html

10 ( +24 / -14 )

@Snickers Today  06:58 am JST

Relations soured in 2015 when Korea reneged on the 'final and irreversible' agreement -

A common misunderstanding of the term. That kind of expression is commonly used in Japan, but it is not a legal term.

For example, if you and I agreed that we settled compensation "completely and finally", then will any court in S. Korea or even in Japan accept it as a supporting evidence for ruling on any civilian legal dispute? If no, why? The reason can be applied as the same for the 1965 treaty.

-25 ( +7 / -32 )

@peppy kids Today  08:34 am JST

If this is the case, Japan will come out on top due to economic scales and demographics.

Another common misunderstanding on economic wars. Have you ever heard about 'the cod wars'?

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-were-cod-wars

Japan's export regulation is as much as suicidal as Kamikaze, and can not last long, unless Abe is a crazy man.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

The Moon government is pro-North, and wouldn’t mind playing into the hands of the Chinese either.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

So much dislike here, its very sad. South Korea and Japan both could do better, but pro South Korea (in this situation) commentators are determined not to talk about moving forward but constantly bring up a now non-existant Japans behaviour.. The few very Pro Japan (in this situation) say there is nothing to be done, it is sorted.. there clearly is gap here.

Yet both sides could be doing better, however it requires there to be an actual interest to looking ahead and working together.

William is trying to stereotype a whole nation as a certain thing, thats how unrest, dehumanizing people and wars start... nationalism, lack of forgiveness and understanding on all sides is the problem.

What people don't see is the big picture, this issue plays right into Chinas goal of dominating the region.

That is worth putting aside differences and working some things out...

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Nothing to do with a less apologetic generation. Japan is a weedy puppy dog with the U.S.A. Really apologising to Korea on the other hand, would cause them to lose face. The ultra right wing of Japan - the descendants of those who committed these crimes - has a very, very, very sore point that Korea keeps touching on because what they did, as others have point out here is far, far worse than sex slaves! It's because they keep trying to push it under the rug that it continues, generation after generation.

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

@kurisupisu

The horrors and misery that imperial Japan meted out on its Korean colony were disgusting where Korean identity was on a course for extinction.

Yeah ... the population doubled, life expectancy doubled, an industrial economy boomed, slavery was finally banned ... but "the Korean identity was on a course for extinction".

Well, if by "Korean identity" you mean, backwards, short lived, prone to child deaths, and 40% of the population in some kind of nobi slavery ... then I guess you are right.

Japan did extinguish all that.

Oh, and yangban class corruption and ineptitude too. And it sorted out the waterways and irrigations, an intractable problem the Koreans could not do so themselves and which almost caused a civil war, and even games names and education to people that had none before.

So which Korea identity are you referring to? Nobi or yangban?

Actually, the truth is for the vast majority of Koreans, life just went on as normal and for many it got a great deal better, as you'd know if you ever had the chance to speak to people who were alive at that time, or look at the evidence. Evidence means evidence not propaganda.

The truth is, in world terms, Korean is a secondary identity. It was too small and too late to develop and has developed since on the Japanese model, initially on the basis of Japanese technology and management models, and since at least the 1990s, following Japanese culture and fashion. It is of too little importance and less and less distinquishable from Japanese.

Korea has a choice, again, of being subsumed by Japanese, American or Chinese culture in the long term. It appears to choicing a fusion of Korean, Japanese and American influences. It will never have an empire or dominate other nations. It's sort of like the bad tempered, irrational Romanian of Asia.

It would have been much better off in all ways remaining in a union with Japan, and becoming like Scotland and England creating a Great Britain (with Manchuko as the Wales), and still kept its national costumes and folk dances.

9 ( +21 / -12 )

Again like Abe or not and plenty of his government policies I don't.. there has been plenty of apologies.. and from him even if he is a bit rightwing and nationalistic for my liking.

There is several legal issues at hand, one of export and one of historical compensation claims, however it almost instantly turns to Japan is a demon, yeah it was terrible and atrocious during that time, but was changed so it can never be that Japan again.

Forgive move on, I don't need constant apologies from young German people or the German government for the genocide of some of my family simply for being born a certain group of people, yet there seems a real desire to keep these wounds open. With better relations I would suspect a better understanding could be fostered to repair feelings and relations but if you constantly being accused of your distant generation before crimes I can understand how people would be defensive.

Im truly sorry for the people, though few now, who suffered through those times and think its disgusting they have become a political playing card rather than either government looking to see what they can do to help them.

Again I post from his official statement on the 70th anniversary;

Japan took the wrong course and advanced along the road to war.

And, seventy years ago, Japan was defeated.

On the 70th anniversary of the end of the war, I bow my head deeply before the souls of all those who perished both at home and abroad. I express my feelings of profound grief and my eternal, sincere condolences.

 Also in countries that fought against Japan, countless lives were lost among young people with promising futures. In China, Southeast Asia, the Pacific islands and elsewhere that became the battlefields, numerous innocent citizens suffered and fell victim to battles as well as hardships such as severe deprivation of food. We must never forget that there were women behind the battlefields whose honour and dignity were severely injured.

 Upon the innocent people did our country inflict immeasurable damage and suffering. History is harsh. What is done cannot be undone. Each and every one of them had his or her life, dream, and beloved family. When I squarely contemplate this obvious fact, even now, I find myself speechless and my heart is rent with the utmost grief.

 The peace we enjoy today exists only upon such precious sacrifices. And therein lies the origin of postwar Japan. 

 We must never again repeat the devastation of war.

 Japan has repeatedly expressed the feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology for its actions during the war. In order to manifest such feelings through concrete actions, we have engraved in our hearts the histories of suffering of the people in Asia as our neighbours: those in Southeast Asian countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines, and Taiwan, the Republic of Korea and China, among others; and we have consistently devoted ourselves to the peace and prosperity of the region since the end of the war.

 Such position articulated by the previous cabinets will remain unshakable into the future.

 How much emotional struggle must have existed and what great efforts must have been necessary for the Chinese people who underwent all the sufferings of the war and for the former POWs who experienced unbearable sufferings caused by the Japanese military in order for them to be so tolerant nevertheless?

 That is what we must turn our thoughts to reflect upon.

>

11 ( +14 / -3 )

I'm glad that I'm a kind of guy who don't need to worry about this kind of thing because I know the meaning of the verb "move on".

As I have told history is not a subject that was meant to encourage kids to hate other people; things that occur in Korea.

I read a article that describes a American teacher in Korea for kids and she describes that she try hard to tell kids that wishing bad things to other people is wrong, but she feels unable to make them to understand it because such action practiced by kids is encouraged by their other teachers.

I think it is so sad, they are just kids and they are being taught to hate other people in the very young age.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

@IloveCoffee

Anyone who starts a comment with "Japan has never been apologetic in the first place" blows their credibility right away.

On the contrary, I can promise you that I have walked along behind young people in Japan voicing exactly the same critical sentiments about Korea as you read on this forum.

What is the American equivalent? Black "race hucksters" always blaming the Whites for their own lack of achievements? It was sort of like that. "Everything is always Japan's fault" etc.

One big difference is that young Japanese are not indoctrinated into race or nation hate on false grounds from childhood in the same way Koreans are.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

@ Mitsuo Matsuyama

Be a little careful, I know its easy to feel, and I do agree to some degree, put out and unfairly attacked but there are also Im sure plenty of South Korean people who like the majority of Japanese people just want to get on with their lives and aren't so driven to find fault in what should be a close ally.

Sure there doesn't seem to be the government sponsored signage and somewhat manipulated outrage here in Japan currently but there are still the black-van loudspeaker cowards that drive around saying some pretty terrible things without problem.

In many situations there is no 100% blame or fault or any one "side", there needs to be facts and understanding.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I think by myself that a country that always beg for apology even if such statement were reasonable, this same statement display a sense of weakness on this country and people. When a country is strong, it will make efforts to move on instead of sticking in the past. We have some examples like England and Mexico, they suffered from war in the past, but they never ask for French people and American people to apologize. How about Indonesian government? They instead of begging for apology from Japan, they prefer to have good relation with modern Japan.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

If = the ruling elite of Japan, then the statement is not hard to parse. Many of the young Japanese I work with have a negative attitude to Koreans (who'da thunk it?), but it is extremely easy to get them to revise their opinions by exposing them to films that reveal the shocking truth: Koreans are Asians who have much in common culturally with their Japanese "brothers and sisters".

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

I just think to gain a better bargaining power, Korea just like China love to pull on the shameful string of the past. That's basically the difference between Asians and Westerners. Westerners though they never forget the LESSONS of the past, do easily move on. That's why no matter how many GI's died during several conflicts, they still have the heart and courage to help rebuild the countries in which much of their men lost their lives. It's as if to appease them is to give in to their unjust demands. Today's world shld be a win win era not because you hurt me before I'll hurt you now even more kind of thinking.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

This is the reason to why we have war. When all "living memories" are perished, war will rise because their voice is lost, unless someone take on their campaign in their absence.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

If the statement "Japan" has never been apologetic" = the ruling elites of Japan have never been apologetic, then it is not hard to parse. Many of the young Japanese I work with have a negative attitude to Koreans (who'da thunk it?), but it is extremely easy to change their thinking by exposing them to films that reveal the shocking truth: Koreans are Asians who have much in common with their Japanese "brothers and sisters".

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

@SJ

   Japan's export regulation is as much as suicidal as Kamikaze, and cannot last long, unless Abe is a crazy man.

 Your absolutely right export controls do harm free trade and so do seizing corporate assets under the guise of court decisions.

Another common misunderstanding on economic wars.

Not sure what sure talking about here but,

1.    This is not an economic war this is just two silly governments drunk off nationalistic pride.

2.    It is mathematical certainty that any negative inputs in S Korea’s economy will be felt  more severe due to the size of its economy and the size of its human capital relative to Japans.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Tom DoleyToday  10:30 am JST

The Japanese raped, murdered, tortured, massacred millions of people, and almost exterminated a race and identity. Don’t expect the Koreans to move on if you can’t apologize properly (and none of the lip service garbage) and accept the truth. It’s so easy for the Japanese to say move on when you’re the perpetrator but when you’re the victim you slander us Americans for using the atomic bombs. Such two faced hypocracy is the one reason I have no respect for the Japanese.

If you were American you would know that the Japanese don't "slander us for using the Atomic bomb". You would also know that PM Shinzo Abe addressed Congress and received a standing ovation. The US and Japan have moved on, as has the rest of the world. Your pathetic country just can't do it.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

"Those who saw Korean conscript laborers in their emaciated condition forced to work in Japanese mines and companies have died or are very, very old," he said.

And it should have ended with this. Most everyone involved have died and the ones who were responsible were killed. Don't really understand for this need for constant apology.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Japan, South Korea and China will ALWAYS have issues with each other.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Trade minister Hiroshige Seko took to Twitter to chastise public broadcaster NHK for using the term "export restraints" for moves against sales to Seoul. He said the proper term was the more neutral "export control" or "export management".

NHK declined to comment on Seko's tweet, but told Reuters in a statement that it made independent decisions and constantly revised terms to be more appropriate and easier to understand.

In reporting on the topic on Thursday, NHK used the more neutral expression.

And there you go, a perfect example of censorship in Japan. The NHK is a government propaganda tool but even in the few cases where they get out of line with the LDP overlords, they change the tune quickly.

It is true the younger generation is more supportive of the revisionist history the Abe government spins. That is why the LDP lowered the voting age, they would not have done so if polling showed otherwise regarding the youth of Japan. This country is going to fall hard at some point, either the massive debt the LDP has run up will do it or Abe or Kono will start a fight with China, for the same stupid reasons you can read about above regarding SK. Japan, not in my lifetime, but perhaps beyond that could end up a vassal state of China. It the acts by the Abe government today that will lead to that outcome.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

There is also a cultural element to it as well. Even if most Japanese spoke English, is it rather unlikely that they would seek information from non-Japanese sources, the same way, most English people do not seek information from non-British sources. It's a messy mix of a island mentality, a culture of conformity to majority opinion, and lack of exposure to information. A minority pushes certain narrative, the media blows it up, and most people conform to it, thereby becoming majority opinion to which other people conform and nobody wants to question it, because nobody wants to stand out.

That does sum up allot of it.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

It would have been much better off in all ways remaining in a union with Japan, and becoming like Scotland and England creating a Great Britain (with Manchuko as the Wales), and still kept its national costumes and folk dances.

Wow, you may want to talk to a Korean about your fantasies. Or any real person.

Also, last time I checked Scotland may be exiting Great Britain soon just like the Irish did 100 years before. I wonder why that would be? Reality is a harsh mistress.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/09/independence-scotland-inevitable-scot-nicola-sturgeon

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Stay tough, Japan! Stand up to bullies!

Japan is lucky to have PM Abe and Minister Kono. Two streetfighters who will never, ever take a back step to anyone. Kono will now be the next Prime Minister, in 6 years.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Great pragmatists that the Japanese are, it’s only a matter of time until they decide they’ve overreacted. As for the younger generation, they have no knowledge base,” pretty much sums things up. Spoon fed on a constant diet of Nippon Kaigi half truths and outright fabrications, their inchoate resentment of “intractable Koreans” speaks volumes of the lamentable failure of progressive Japanese thinkers to challenge their compatriots by reminding them of what happened the last time hubristic arrogance towards and disrespect of those who were not Japanese was the default position.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

Japan has never been led by a generation other than one that's in its late seventies.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

If you were American you would know that the Japanese don't "slander us for using the Atomic bomb". You would also know that PM Shinzo Abe addressed Congress and received a standing ovation. The US and Japan have moved on, as has the rest of the world. Your pathetic country just can't do it.

Excuse me, have you not read the comments in the article regarding the Nagasaki bombing? That sure is one hell of a sign that Japan moved on. Always trying to nitpick. Pathetic.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Abe's revisionist old chestnut and rightist trope, "The peace we enjoy today exists only upon such precious sacrifices. And therein lies the origin of postwar Japan" is irrational and nonsensical. The dead of WW2 whose lives were wasted for nothing, made zero contribution to rebuilding Japanese society. The military defeat and the American occupation were the foundation on which the surviving population rebuilt Japan with their blood, sweat and tears and with US economic assistance and imported foreign notions of democracy. Even this simple history lesson is not learned in schools

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

A quarter century later, Kono's son, Taro, now foreign minister, is on the front lines of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's escalating feud

I love the smell of nepotism in the morning.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

OssanAmericaToday  10:47 am JST

If you were American you would know...

What, as if all Americans are exactly alike in terms of what they know and the opinions they hold?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

@pacificwest

The Japanese colonialists forced Koreans to learn Japanese, give up Korean names and became changing place names to Japanese!

This was the least of it.

I would like to see you peddle your opinion in the middle of Seoul- you wouldn’t last a second!

Have you ever asked a Korean if forced colonization was welcome?

Maybe you could ask the descendants of ‘worked to death Koreans’ trying to visit the mining sites in Kyushu which are being blocked off ,preventing access, their opinion?

If that is too much hard work, then ask the Japanese politicians that have the view that Korean women were just aching to be sluts of the Imperial army, their bigoted opinions.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

Unapologetic ehh? Well for the crowd that doesn't miss a beat when it comes for making excuses for the regime, would you opine the same if you came across this heading to an article: "Germany, led by less apologetic generation, stays tough"

Theres so many ways you can deny deny spin dodge duck and weave. Everyone else not living in a denial bubble accepts the historical facts as they are. The fact that so many individuals throw out the 'it was paid for once and for all' is shocking given how it's impossible to out a number on anyone's life. How do you live with yourselves?

The abe regime has done irreparable damage to japan and the saddest thing is how the rara crowd can't see this for what it is.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

IMO Japan has provided more than enough apologies over the years in many ways, i.e. monetarily, economically and military wares. Enough is enough. No more apologies. This became a grander issue in 2015 as one post mentioned as soon as Moon became the lead for SK.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

@tinawatanabe

Indeed, sometimes Japaneses PM did apologize truly, which were later soon negated or obfuscated by the successors. For example:

https://thediplomat.com/2015/08/the-abe-statement-did-abe-apologize/

https://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2015/06/09/kono-murayama-criticize-abe-over-70th-anniversary-war-statement/

Japan has already lost its credibility.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

In an ideal state with full and genuine accountability, this world renowned documentary would be recommended viewing in all japanese schools. But unfortunately reality begs to differ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Japan has already lost its credibility.

It is funny to see people saying that Japan lost its credibility; especially from whom such statement was made. It is like a criminal saying that police officers don't have moral.

To define the word credibility the readers should analyze how the world see a determined country. As many know Japan is known as quality of his goods, quality of his costumer service, quality of his means of transportation and infrastructure and so on. When we talk about humanitarian aid, Japan is one of the countries that most help other nations.

Someone who says that Japan lost credibility shows how jealous the person is, especially if this person came from a country where corruption is a common thing.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Don't really understand for this need for constant apology.

Psychologically speaking the action of asking or demanding the partner or other individual to apologize shows that the person is weak and need someone to apologize for anything.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Korea has been given numerous opportunities to accept apologies. They blew it every time by breaking every agreements made between the two countries. Too bad.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

“When we talk about humanitarian aid, Japan is one of the countries that most help other nations.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

http://www.oecd.org/dac/financing-sustainable-development/development-finance-data/Longterm-ODA.xls

Any help Japan gives is welcome; but as you can see, it is NOT particularly generous.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Japan's international reputation is not tarnished one bit by this latest skirmish. Nobody in America or the Western hemisphere cares about this re-hashing of 'you didn't apologize/yes I did' again and again. Ditto Australia, Europe and Africa. I suppose on could say China might be slightly interested in this, since they likely sympathize with Korea. India could care less and often times think Koreans are being far too petty since India doesn't appear to harbor much resentment towards England.

Move on, quit picking at the scab.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

oyatoi, China gave $1.5 trillions to Japanese people at the end of WW2, to help rebuild the destructed homeland. There is nothing in human history can even get remotely close to that.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

We are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors! The current government was not alive during the colonial period. Koreans want to extend the hatred to all future generations. I refuse to apologize for the actions of the mainland people so long ago. It has been over 100 years, GET OVER IT!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

YuriOtani

We are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors! The current government was not alive during the colonial period.

But their fathers and grandfathers were, people like Abe and Azo who families go way back and very such part of the political world and they have done very little to dismiss or change the thinking of their families and ancestors.

Even you hold them responsible for many events in Okinawa.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Boycott Japan? He’ll im boycotting Korea. One family break in Korea cancelled, I was also on the cusp of buying a Samsung Android cell but have gone with iPhone.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

YuriOtani, then who are responsible ? Indians ?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

It is sad that at this period of time, japan still do not admit what they have done.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

AkieToday  09:20 pm JST

YuriOtani, then who are responsible ? Indians ?

It is so obvious that those who are responsible for what happened in the past are those who lived in that time. In other words, all of them are already dead.

oyatoi, China gave $1.5 trillions to Japanese people at the end of WW2, to help rebuild the destructed homeland. There is nothing in human history can even get remotely close to that.

PRC politically and socially speaking was a mess back in those days. The probability to China gives 1.5 trillion dollars is zero. Actually modern China got more help from Japan than Japan from China. Until 1972 China was a country with people living in extreme poverty and thanks to Japan many Chinese got benefits with jobs and high investment in infrastructure and other areas.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Today's generation of Japanese have nothing to be apologetic about....except for denial of history. But if it wasn't them that did it, why deny the history? To protect grandpa? Reminds me of Truman's grandson who came to Japan to defend his granddad. If that were my granddad I would desecrate his grave every year...at least. But unlike most people I don't have that animal grouping need. I seem to have evolved past that.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Any help Japan gives is welcome; but as you can see, it is NOT particularly generous.

Japan not only invested in many countries, but also helps in area regarding humanitarian aid. Help is not only based on money, but also based on services and JSDF has made a good job wherever they serve by building hospital, bridge, schools, etc...

4 ( +9 / -5 )

I ask to the foreigners in this forum that live or lived in Japan to recognize the foolish stubbornness of South Korea but at the same time don’t forget that this hawkish right wing government in Japan is not contributing to improve relationships with their neighbors.

Sadly both countries are homogeny collective controlled societies.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

@pacificwest

So you're saying that the Japanese government and the Japanese public are apologetic, or have been apologetic? Then why do they keep denying their war crimes, and why are they not teaching any of it in their history textbooks? Japanese politicians, even Abe himself, have denied that comfort women were forced, they have accused them of being lying prostitutes, they have denied the Nanking massacre as Chinese hoax, they regularly visit the Yasukuni Shrine where Tojo is enshrined, they even claim they have liberated Asian countries, and not invaded them. PM Abe said "the definition of aggression varies", and then took a picture in a plane with the numbers 731. No, this was not "coincident". Nothing in Japanese culture is coincidental. The mayor of Osaka then Hashimoto said that the comfort women were needed prostitutes to relief some of the stress of the Japanese solders. The mayor of Nagoya have also denied the Nanking Massacres saying it was hoax. The 6 time in a row elected former mayor of Tokyo Ishihara is the Japanese equivalent of David Duke.

Are you seriously claiming these people are apologetic? Their so called apologies are ridiculous. If you actually read Japanese, and understand Japanese culture, you would know these are not apologies. They do not contain admission of guilt, and they speak about war in the abstract, as oppose to an act of aggression committed by them. It's always something like "it is regrettable that a lot of people suffered during the war". Does that sound like an apology to you? In Japanese culture, the context and words mean everything. You will not find a single admission of guilt in these so called apologies. Moreover, they are always followed by a visit to the Yasukuni, or a statement of denial, which completely erases everything that was just said. But that's all purposeful, of course. They do not feel any remorse, because they do not think they have done anything wrong. If they did, they would not be whitewashing their history and denying their war crimes, they would be teaching those war crimes like the Germans do, but they are not.

So, how can you claim they have been apologetic? When? I guess the only somewhat real apology i have ever heard was from Kono, but that was later taken back by other administrations, even the current Abe administration who said "our administration does not necessarily agree with the Kono statement". So again i am asking, how can you think they have been apologetic when they have a history of denying their war crimes? What makes you think they have been apologetic, other than their cunning attempts are silencing and burring this issue by trying to bribe corrupt Korean leaders to seal this issue forever? They have also tried to intimidate and force an American textbooks manufacturer to remove all mentions of "comfort women", and they are actively putting pressure on cities around the world to remove any statutes of "comfort women". Does that sound like something an apologetic government would do? To me it sounds like something a desperate and sick man who tries erase their history would do. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/12/07/disputes-over-textbooks-characterization-japans-wartime-actions-continue

By the way, have you been to the Yushukan, the museum inside the Yasukuni Shrine? That museum is an open symbol of the Japanese historical revisionism and an expression of their view that they were the victims of a random war. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/stop-talking-about-yasukuni-the-real-problem-is-y-sh-kan/282757/

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

Akie: “China gave $1.5 trillions to Japanese people at the end of WW2, to help rebuild the destructed homeland. There is nothing in human history can even get remotely close to that.”

The fruit of Japanese education your honor; exhibit one.

Mitsuo Matsuyama: “Japan is one of the countries that most help other nations”

Additional facts about Japan’s self-serving generosity.

https://www2.jiia.or.jp/en/pdf/publication/2014-12_003-kokusaimondai.pdf

Pacificwest: “Korean leaders invited Japan to annex pre-modern Korea and, you forgot to add “assassinate their Queen.”

“Koreans have a habit of hiding or denying anything that is embarrassing or shameful.”

Like Japanese pretending that they have no idea what you’re talking about when you try and engage them about their own untouchable class, the “Burakumin” and the continuing difficulties and discrimination they experience in 2019 Japan?

And then ask yourself, how many times have you heard Japanese admit they are descended from this group, numbering at least three million and heavily concentrated in the Kansai area.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

China gave $1.5 trillions to Japanese people at the end of WW2

Not correct.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Oyatoi, thanks to admited that Japan is one of the countries that most help other nations!!!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

“Koreans have a habit of hiding or denying anything that is embarrassing or shameful.”

That is something very interesting. I remember when I went to the US to learn English that many Korean students acted that way. Obviously not all of them were like that, but I met a lot of them acting this way.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

zichi, Abe is not responsible for the sins of his ancestors as well. It is bad enough to be responsible for ones own actions never mind things done before you were born! Akie, the people responsible are dead and gone. Many of them long before our births by hanging. Again our ancestors were responsible and some paid the price and were executed. A lot of us born long after the war paid the price by bad living conditions. Really Korea needs to drop their hatred and go on their way.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

YuriOtani 

zichi, Abe is not responsible for the sins of his ancestors as well. It is bad enough to be responsible for ones own actions never mind things done before you were born! 

But he is since he's the prime minister who has too often denied the truth of the history and even offered revisionism in it place. As the leader of the country it's his duty to ensure the true history is taught and not denied.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

For the people minding the time lap in Korean history some additional information :

Korea more or less secluded itself against westerner. They had an issue against Catholicism and slaughtered missionary and catholic. It logically had an effect on its modernization. At some point American came to ask them to be more open. Then a bit later they signed a treaty with Japan which had the same kind of visit around 20 years prior, then in 1886 with the US. Soon after an internal dispute opened between the reformer and the conservative. Japanese backed the reformer and Chinese backed the conservative.

The Korean Queen was conservative then Chinese official set foot in Korea. Some modernization started at that time. Then there was war in between the 2 backers. Japan win. The Queen requested help from Russia and was killed with Japanese help. The King run away to Russia. Then Reformer started operating (Gabo government). Some Korean people were not so found of having another country meddling in their business even thought they were supposed to be independent and complained. The King come back and become Emperor (Gwangmu Reform). He kept the abolition of slavery of the previous government and revoked the class system. (timing : 1886, the Queen remove part of slavery, 1894, the Gabo government abolished slavery and banned discrimination based on class system, 1897 the Gwangmu government abolished the class system and strongly enforce law against it, they also launched reform so that the low class will also get a name.) The country along the way continued to modernize itself (they even took part in Paris Universal Expo in 1900).

After the end of Japanese-Russia war, Korea started sending secret envoy around the world to request help against Japan. 1905 November, the 17th, the Korean government signed a treaty of protectorate and lost of foreign diplomacy with Japanese which arrived 2 days prior with some troop which set camp all around the Korean Imperial Palace. After that, the Emperor called for foreign help against the treaty and had to retire . A new treaty emerged giving Japanese control over politician. Then 3 years later Korea became part of Japan thanks to a treaty not signed by the 2nd Emperor (son of the previous one).

So it seems Korea was going for modernization before becoming a colony of Japan. If Japan thought they were not modernizing fast enough they could have helped without annexation, like the American businessmen which opened tram line, Belgium with who they signed a treaty, ...

I guess all around the world the famous : Colonization was for the good of the colonized. It was an absolute necessity to annex them. They were so primitive. They were totally unable to modernize themselves without being put under the rules of our so nice country. And so, and so, ... still amount for nothing at all.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Japan is very sharp at cutting history, the best, no attempt to argue at all.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

I don't think the Japanese are ignorant of history. For such a tough subject I'm sure they feel sorry and want to understand. But history is in the past, you want understanding or money? You demand and demand apologies and reparations from people that weren't even alive then. You're just annoying now and no wonder they aren't interested in history anymore, 'oh yes tell me more about how horrible my grandfather was, I should be ashamed'.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I don't think the Japanese are ignorant of history.

Unfortunately the school system here doesn't really teach their place and responsibility for the war very well, and as a result, they often are ignorant of their own history.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

And that is why Japanese politicians still come out with outrageous statements about their former colonies-lack of knowledge...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

ignorant is better than brainwashed

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Boycott Japan Radioactive Danger"

Slogan to push other countries to prohibit imports of Japanese foods and to boycott Tokyo Olympics all together.  Very Typical

4 ( +5 / -1 )

As a third party, I hope somebody may consider what I say logically, without prior anger, and correct me if they think otherwise. But please read the whole thing beforehand.

I know Japan apologized, I think six times, in the past couple decades, but seriously.. There's a reason korean people think it's insincere. It's because the government refuses to educate their younger generation by putting the horrors the older generation committed in their textbooks. Unlike the germans (who I believe apologize every year- not exactly necessary in this case, personal opinion-wise), who continuously educate their young so that it may never happen again (hence the existence of history classes), I've heard that comfort women (korean and other asians) only get a sentence in textbooks. Because that is the case, when Japan apologizes, it just sort of seems as if they're saying, 'hey, I'm sorry, but also I apologized, so let's forget about it.' The apologies and money just seem to be trying to appease the anger of the Koreans in the moment so they don't have to deal with the issue anymore, and can just forget that it happened. Just look at this article's title.

Of course, this doesn't mean Koreans are also not at fault. I rarely see Koreans giving a reasonable explanation on their demands, rather using terms like 'japanese monkey' to describe those who defend the Japanese. If anyone were more clear on their points and demands rather than meaningless, pointless, and self-harming anger, this feud wouldn't have gone on until this point.

I think the solution to this issue (not just the trade war, but the anger over the issues of annexation) is not unrelenting anger on either side, nor another apology from Japan. I think forgiveness needs to be given to both sides, rather than pushing the blame to one side. Because that's not how you forgive.

Please don't kill me, I tried my best to understand.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The past is now pages in history books and the lessons of the hardships relegated to historians now.These times were different and life styles as we look back at the pictures shows depravity of the poor.nationalistic attitudes, walled from other influences except by hearsay and stories. Now due to technology, diverseness and communications and travel and mixing of the vast different ethnicity has now opened the world to the new generation that are not looking at the past as they look at Today and Tomorrow.the Climate and the state of the economies that they are being left out of are the concerns. Education, Health and a living wage and elimination of poverty and expressing empathy and concern for the well being of all everywhere.The time has past to let the historians debate and the oppression and human rights violations and genocides and study the methods to stop these behaviors and spread freedom as we are all one race.Today's generations should not pay for their ancestors destructive ways. they were not even alive then.We are much better than them but still have to develop further in the advancement of the Human raceWe are only human and we are all flawed in some way.

Peace and Love fellow Humans

0 ( +1 / -1 )

21 st century now bt someone is still in 19 th century

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Right, South Korean here looking for Japanese perspectives!

The reason for dissent with the 2015 "Comfort Women Deal" is the fact that the president at the time, for the lack of a better word, was a complete whackjob! Literally! The country wasn't even run by her!

We literally had to overthrow her government! That wasn't so fun.

Moreover, many victims weren't satisfied with the deal, feeling that their traumatic experience was being calculated with a monetary value. Also angry with not receiving formal Japanese Gov announcement that acknowledges and apologizes about the whole war crime part. But they had no say in the matter. It was hush hush let's wrap up this stuff sort of business.

That's my two cents on why that 2015 deal isn't respected a whole lot, It just felt like a coverup to a lot of people!

Regarding the article, this is surprisingly unbiased! I thought from the title I would be in for a ride of, "Oh boy! Bias by omission? My favorite!" but found myself learning about why Japan is right-oriented in today's world.

What's my opinion on this whole shindig with the trade spat? Pfffph I don't have an opinion! I don't want to be harassed!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Kinukai

As a third party, I hope somebody may consider what I say logically, without prior anger, and correct me if they think otherwise

I think we are up to about 55 official apologies by now.

At what age, and in what context, do you consider it is appropriate for children to learn about licensed prostitution and sex trafficking?

In economics class, perhaps?

If it was down to these Korean nationalists, indoctrination would start on the first day of nursery school and be repeated at the start of every day, complete with gory pictures, until all children in Japan were suffering from suicidal depression and anxiety, and traumatized about love and sex.

Sadly, due to the nature of the topic, and the present day beligerents, it is always very difficult to know if a first off post like yours is sincere in its naivety ... or just cynically reaffirming the same old tropes under the guise of being sincere and naive, eg the bogus "textbook" meme.

I don't know about "forgiveness" working - yes, I get the theory, it's rooted in Christianity, isn't it? - but I think uping the doses of mass medication in Korea might work. Much of the nation needs heavier duty chill pills to get over its tendency towards hysteria. There's really next to zero "anger" in Japan. Japan is just a little exhausted living next door to a houseful of noisy, violent, crazy people.

So what questions would you'd like to ask about the issue to gain a better understanding of it, and what is your general exposure to the kind of Koreans we are discussing? (BTW, not all Koreans are crazy and unreasonable, just the ones we are talking about).

I would say that the concept of forgiveness (like charity) does not really have a strong place within NE Asia societies which are more transactional in nature, by which I mean there's a stronger tradition of apology and monetary compensation.

On one hand, it's a simple issue of Japan having apologized and compensated but some parties wanting their cut (because the government took it instead) or more; and, on the other hand, the issue is too politically useful for posturing 'within Korean politics' for them to let it ever drop, eg Japan of the past as "the enemy without" to distract from "the enemy within" today.

The starting point is actually a better, more real, more honest, objective review of the history, and an acceptance of that by all parties. A de-politicizing of the history.

Within that, the views generally referred to as "historical revision" of the Japanese right are actually the closest to the truth, simply because they have done the most and broadest research.

Study them and their sources.

If you are geniune and want to learn about the subjects, although I have no idea why you would, start from the position of accepting that almost everything you have read about them to date is false or highly exaggerated and politically movitated propaganda pushed by individuals who are not just unqualified in the study of history, but psychologically unsuited to the objective study of it.

It would also help to have a basic grounding in Korean/Confucian concepts of honor/sexual purity/gender roles and so on.

Today's Japanese have absolutely ZERO personal responsibility for the past and so why should they be made to suffer these Koreans' attacks?

(That's not a rhetorical question)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

LESS apologetic? Many deny any atrocities occurred to begin with. You can't get less apologetic than that. If it were the US, though, Abe would be jumping up and down after being on his hands and knees to try and appease the US. This is just Japan repeating its sense of superiority in Asia, which is what happens when you deny history.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This is getting really boring now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Sadly korean dance n singing couldn't move a hair in WTO n America ASEAN n could dance n sing in china keep on e smitting as reality is a far cry

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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