politics

Australia favors local build for huge submarine deal

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Weapons of mass destruction are big business!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japan screwed themselves on this deal by insulting Australia and saying they didn't have the know-how to build Japanese subs domestically. Oops!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

yep at least the French are willing to build the subs mostly in Australia, doubt the Japanese could even get close to that. $50billion deal that looks like they wont be winning. and to think they put in 10x as much effort to win a train deal worth $5billion with Indonesia. Got there priorities in the wrong place

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Abbott was just polishing the apple to get this deal with Japan during Abe's visit to Australia. The Australian ship building industry does have the know how and the means to build these ships of mass destruction. They can also buy all the electronics from Taiwan at a third of the price from Japan.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@smithinjapanSEP. 18, 2015 - 05:14PM JST

Japan screwed themselves on this deal by insulting Australia and saying they didn't have the know-how to build Japanese subs domestically. Oops!

Let's just hope for Australia's sake the Japanese don't turn out to be right. The entire reason for this new sub project is because the Collins didn't work out, and now they are going to insist on homebuilding again. At best the whole project will be more expensive and at worst it won't work ... again.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yeah might be good for industry, but is it good for the Navy and defense? The Collins class were....a little noisy.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

smithinjapanSep. 18, 2015 - 05:14PM JST

Japan screwed themselves on this deal by insulting Australia and saying they didn't have the know-how to build Japanese subs domestically. Oops!

Well, it's the truth. Our specialties are clothes lines and whirlybirds. Submarines, good submarines that can stand up to world standards are beyond our capabilities. This potential decision is more political than anything else - to appease unionists and to not lose seats to the ALP in the next election.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Never mind Japan, every cloud has a silver lining.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

As an Aussie, I am actually proud of the fact that we are not experts at building devices of war - unlike a few other places...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

what's offensive about it? It's a reality

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

As an Aussie, I am actually proud of the fact that we are not experts at building devices of war - unlike a few other places.

When you have your strongest ally backing you, why would you?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Disillusioned: WE don,t have the know how!. Look at the collin class. It all in how you form the outer skin and this old technique of hand heating and srinking is lost to australian manufacturing. With the Collin Class the out skin was mechanically pressed and when pushed to go long and deep they leak. Japan have the contract to build all the subs and no Politics will change this deal.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Let the Germans have it launching their 216 unproven sub built by unskilled ASC constructors. It will make the Collins class look like it was not half as bad. Then it will be constant complaining of both side slinging mud at each other stating it was the other side's fault for not able to making it work.

The track record of Australians building large sophisticated war ships is below pitiful. The Collins class and, the new Hobart class were/are both a mess costing the Australian tax payers millions of extra cost.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Japan indeed made a huge mistake in refusing to commit to local build , even partially whilst the Germans and French both emphasized the opposite. This is a political decision, local build & SA jobs means securing the SA seats at the next election for the government. It's not rocket science and the fact Japanese delegation completely ignored such reality points to their naivety. Major stuff up.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's actually a double edged sword since if SAC fouls up this time(which they will no doubtfully do) then the Government will just have to pull the plug on SAC altogether with other states making a big stinker out of it. Both the French and German subs are vapor ware with one completely on the drawing table and the other requiring massive restructuring due to need of complete re-balancing of weight distribution.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When you have your strongest ally backing you, why would you?

Read: when you have the playground bully as a friend, why worry about diplomacy?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

By having them built locally the government would only be propping up a severely inefficient and inept industry. Much like the local car makers which were finally put out of their misery and will shutter over the coming years. The subs would arrive on time at the cheapest price and in the best working order if they let the Japanese build them. Having said that this is Japan's first foray into exporting this type of technology since the recent change in laws and they clearly need a lot of advice in order to get their wining and dining up to scratch.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Smith is right. And I believe Germany will get contract. France claimed it is the most technologically advanced country but I doubt Aussie took France's claim seriously. Germany concentrated on plan instead of insulting or false claim.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I suspect the japanese submarines were superior to the euro vessels, but can you imagine the logistical and lingual burden that would involve.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Disillusioned

to build these ships of mass destruction

Diesel-powered submarines are not weapons of mass destruction, they do not have nuclear missiles, chemical warfare capability etc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Never mind Japan, every cloud has a silver lining. and yet other countries keep stealing that silver lining from Japan, in way of better deals and bids, but hey Japan still has the cloud left over right

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well done Australia

If i recall correctly Japan had its foot in its mouth on this one so why should the Aussies not bring in others with the know how and give a lot of the work to native workers. Good for you Australia!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

South Koreans have been building licensed U209 and U214 from HDW/Germany for years and now ready to indigenously build 3000t class SSK. I don't see why Aussies can't do the same or even better, Japanese Consortium and the Govt must allow foreign build of Soryu class if they really want this deal to go thru... German SSK subs are the best in the business and the U216 sub they are offering to Aussies will be the crown jewel of their line up, Japan must be willing to share even the most top secret tech and have Aussies build it themselves in order to win this contract. By the way the non-nuclear submarine doesn't mean it's not cable of launching a nuclear attack, these subs can launch a missile armed with nuclear warhead via torpedo tube into the atmosphere so they are as powerful and deadly as the bigger nuclear submarines.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I think Japan should revoke its tender for Australia Submarine building project. The Submarine project budget will be blew out to over AU$ 100 billion and delivery of Submarines will be delayed several times and need to fix problems until the Submarines were decommissioned from service.

Some politicians from both sides think Japanese technology was not good enough and they do not want Submarines technology from Asia nation.

If Japan has building Submarine in Australia and budget was blew out and the quality of Submarine was substandard and then they will blame Japan. There's nothing gain from building Submarine in Australia. If Australia wants to buy Submarine made in Japan and then let Australia Government to buy it. Otherwise, Japan should pass it to France and other competitors.

Elected former Prime Minister Tony Abbott knows very well about ASC (Australia Submarine Corporation). The former Defend Minister said he doesn't trust ASC to build Canoe. It's true.

Also the Union will blackmail middle of building Submarine for increase wages and more holiday.

Japan should stand aside and watch what kind of Submarines were coming out from dock and how much cost to Australians' tax payers.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Perhaps somebody from Oz could explain, but why would you buy such a sensitive asset from another country like Japan or Germany? I could never see the U.S. or Britian buying their subs from another country. Its sort of like they own you, IMO.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Read. 1: The Collin class subs were a political decision and will not let politic interfere with these subs.. 2: Were told by the Experts to expect leaks with building the Collins and they still built the Collin class in Australia.3: This deal was given the Japan for one reason only. Japan are the best at building vessels that go deep and long ( not waring ship ).4: This time the world total different place and Australia can not afford the stuff up which occurred with the Collins Class.5: That fit out will be done in Australia ( weapon systems and electronic ) because Australia is are building 12 other war ship which will work with the same weapon system and electronics.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

why should the Aussies not bring in others with the know how and give a lot of the work to native workers

they have to bring in others from elsewhere because they have no knowledge of how to construct such a vessel in the first place. Australians can be some of the hardest working and single-minded individuals on the planet but as a whole their work ethic is shit and their understanding of this sort of technology is severely limited. Let the professionals do what they do best and let's try to benefit from it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Aussies are the first to admit that they don't have the technology to build cutting edge subs. Otherwise they wouldn't be gathering bids from other countries in the first place. The idea that Japan "offended" them is a stupid comment. At the end of the day, politics, union jobs, local votes will take a back seat to what the Australian Navy wants and they will want the best, be it entirely or partially built overseas. Nobody wants another Collins class fiasco.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

tokyodoumo

South Koreans have been building licensed U209 and U214 from HDW/Germany for years and now ready to indigenously build 3000t class SSK

Do you know what actually happening with the SK S214, they are more tied up in dock then at sea. There didn't have the proper skills in constructing the sub attaching the sail to the hull in which the Germans had to come over to redo the construction. As for their 3000t sub it's not even vaporware with no conceptual sketches no budgetary backing, nothing. It's basically at the same level as NK claiming they had miniaturized their nuclear device small enough to be delivered by their missiles which has a bit more credibility then the SK mirage 3000t subs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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