Australian PM threatens legal action against Japan over whaling

I wish Prime Minister Kevin Rudd all the best in this effort. This whaling for a luxury food item must stop.

Astute readers would realise that Australia at the moment is in holiday season. Expect more announcements like this one. There will be no legal action, and there will be no government action on whaling, because Australia needs Japan's support in it's bid to secure a seat on the UN Security Council - this is a much bigger issue for Kevin Rudd, than whaling.

“If we cannot resolve this matter diplomatically, we will take international legal action. I’ve said that before—I’m serious about it.” If Japan's whale hunt is allowed under international rules as a scientific program, then what international group will take the legal action against Japan?

It is reported Japan's foreign minister Okada said that eating whale meat is Japanese culture. Do Japanese go as far as to the Antarctic sea to catch whales for their culture?

If Big Kev is so upset by the Japanese carrying out scientific whaling, why doesn't he just shut up shop the next time the Japanese whaling fleet stops at an Australian port for replenishment? Better still, if he believes that Japan is acting in breech of international law, why doesn't he impound the Japanese whaling fleet the next time it calls on an Australian port? That would sure get Tokyo's attention. It would also up the ante.

Come on Kev, get beyond the smoke and mirrors, everybody and his dog knows that your current comments are little more than bluff. There is no way that Australia is going to go toe-to-toe　with Japan over the whaling issue, considering Japan's history of linking seemingly diverse foreign policy issues together.

If we cannot resolve this matter diplomatically, we will take international legal action. I’ve said that before—I’m serious about it.

"And if Japan doesn't stop now, I will say it again - even louder!"

Well done Australia for standing firm. Kevin Rudd is the best thing that has happened to Australia. Nobody seemed to take Australia too seriously until his election as PM. It's increasingly close ties with China has probably given him a lot of confidence.

It might be that there is something Australians eat that the Japanese do not Like kangaroos?

It might be that there is something Australians eat that the Japanese do not.

Yes this is true. Even kangaroos. The difference is they don't go to Antarctic waters to get it. Any tradition of Japanese whaling is long way from Antarctica.

Sure, Japan used to catch whales off its own coast, until the Americans came along and took all the bounty, leaving none more for the Japanese.

Timorborder,

No Japanese whaling ships are allowed into any ports in Australia or New Zealand.

Why did not Australia threaten legal action against Japan many years ago if they could? I wonder which countries besides Australia are going to threaten it? It seems to be Australia only doing this. How about South Africa, Argentina, New Zealand?

I think some people are missing the point. Kangaroo's are culled because there are simply too many of them and they are a severe threat to vegetation and other native species. Whaling is entirely different ball game.

No Japanese whaling ships are allowed into any ports in Australia or New Zealand.

So when did Tasmania leave the Commonwealth, perhaps I am getting mixed up with the Japanese Antartic research ships.

Indeed, thinking about this whole issue and the issue of global warming, perhaps the Southern Hemisphere should close the Antarctic to all Northern Hemisphere countries, and let then choke on their own CO2 omissions.

Rudds just engaging in some anti Japan rhetoric to win the love and admiration of Miss Aussies new Chinese lover. Okada is handing his ex girlfriend very well by not replying emotionally to what is just a bunch of barroom bluster. Hey, Okada still wants to be friends. What a nice guy.

However some people think whale is a food but some people don't. Killing living animals seems to be same for kangaroo and other animals.

I do not beleive there is a difference between killing living things like kangaroos, cows or whales. It is cultural, yet some people seem to believe that their culture is beyond reproach and superior.

Kangaroos do not live in the Antarctic. So, of course Australians do not go there to catch them.

I think the average Japanese would like to continue consuming whale meat into the future

No Mr Okada, the average Japanese does not eat whale meat.

i wish the aussies would stop whining!! the japanese killed some whales. boo hoo. jeez. get over it already. it's monitored . they only kill 1,000 per year . they're in international waters. case closed.

Timorborder, Successive Australian and NZ governments have refused approval for entry of the whaling ships into port and recently the Nisshin Maru was turfed out of Surabaya (Indonesia) as well, where it was seeking repair. The CO2 emissions you mentioned are also a valid point I think. I don't know how much CO2 is dumped into the atmosphere by the whalers, but it bears investigation. The fleet is usually about 3 harpoon ships, one factory ship and I think the Japanese Government may be sending another ship to 'observe' this year.

This is just wamby pamby, feel good, mouthwash. As others have pointed out, the Oz-Japan relationship is more important than the extinction of a whale species. My fishmonger is selling whale today, but it's pricey.

No Mr Okada, the average Japanese does not eat whale meat.

That's right. Japanese scientists use whale meat for valuable medical research, not for eating.

MrUSA, are you not aware of Australia & New Zealand's scientific whaling alternative? It is completely unnecessary to kill an animal for research purposes. This is a very strong case.

@cleo - Japanese government is thinking about food in the future, Do you think we can eat beef, port, chicken forever? Someday in the future we could not eat these meats due to global warming, climate change,,,,, so we have to find out another good food in the future. That is whale meat. Japan is training young whalers to how to find whales and how to hunt them. It usually takes 10 years to be good whaler. That's why they can't stop whaling. Whaling needs a lot of experience and harpoon techniques.

It is completely unnecessary to kill an animal for research purposes. This is a very strong case.

For certain types of research, that's true. But for the medical research the Japanese scientists are doing, they need whale flesh.

cleo, Patrick Smash,

It is absolute that Minister Okada knows it better than you, the anti-whaler.

steen,

Yes, sadly the whale is pricey. One might say, this is a evidence of average Japanese person's hope to eat the whale.

kwatt -

Can't remember the last time I ate beef, pork, chicken or any other mammal. Or fish. They aren't necessary in a healthy diet.

I very much doubt the moddies want us to discuss vegetarianism here. Let those 'young whalers' get themselves down to Harroh Wark and find a proper job that doesn't need experience in shooting grenade harpoons at marine mammals, taking a second pot shot with a rifle and finally hoisting the terrified, struggling animal's tail out of the water so that it drowns.

jinjapan at 04:03 PM JST - 11th December........"the japanese killed some whales. boo hoo. jeez. get over it already. it's monitored . they only kill 1,000 per year.".......they threw the wool over your eyes didn't they???

Patrick Smash,

The whaling convention of IWC is for the catching of whales. Whale eaters can never agree to new rules like those you say. The rules of now are good. Just anti-whalers do not accept it, I do not understand why. So, they should leave IWC, not whale eating countries.

Anyway, do not forget that Minister Okada knows Japanese whale eaters well, more than you who does not eat.

shooting grenade harpoons at marine mammals, taking a second pot shot with a rifle and finally hoisting the terrified, struggling animal's tail out of the water so that it drowns.

I don't know about the past. But the whale researchers today use electric harpoons that kill the whales instantly and painlessly.

“If we cannot resolve this matter diplomatically, we will take international legal action. I’ve said that before—I’m serious about it.”

Ok, if you are really serious, international community wants to see your actions before Christmas 2009 !

Power to the Aussies! Its better Japan stop killing these animals under false pretenses for no good reason anyway, if Austrailia are going to take them to court then great. It sure is better than sending out their SAS to sink all their ships and kill all their sailors which is probably the next step!

Its better Japan stop killing these animals under false pretenses for no good reason anyway

Japan only kills whales for research purposes, and that's 100% legal.

And the point of this research that needs 1000 whale corpses is what exactly? The remains still go on the consumer market btw...

jinjapan - i wish the aussies would stop whining!! the japanese killed some whales. boo hoo. jeez. get over it already. it's monitored . they only kill 1,000 per year . they're in international waters. case closed.

Nice! I have heard a lot of ridiculous comments on this topic, but such a naive statement takes the cake. Where are you from? The American mid-west? Have you ever seen a whale in the ocean? Have you ever seen an ocean?

The Rudd government may be spouting vote catchers, but there are grounds for legal action. Even if it is just to get the Japanese to remove the 'scientific research' banner from their hunt and admit they are killing whales for food.

I saw an interesting discussion on the net about whaling between a foreigner and a few Japanese some time ago.

It started with the usual claims form the Japanese that whaling was done for research. They could defend that argument for about 2 minutes. After that they more or less admitted that this whole research thing is a lie.

After that the topic shifted to "culture". The Japanese guy had a hard time defending whaling to be Japanese culture after the foreign guy told him that in 1910 Japan had in total something like 25 whaling ships, and even less before that. He also said that if it was a tradition, it should be done in the traditional way, not like it was been done recently.

After having to more or less admit that whaling was only a minor and relatively new habit in Japan, emotional arguments followed about how "the white men" had killed all whales. The Japanese had difficulties explaining how that meant that Japan had to continue killing even more...

Next one of the Japanese guys conveniently changed the definition of "culture" to be not what actually is, but what the population THINKS is important for the country. In other words, even if whaling is not Japanese culture, if the Japanese think it is, it is. Needless to say, this argument didn't last very long.

Next stop: the Japanese claimed that the US is supporting whaling by Eskimos. They found it a double standard to support whaling by Eskimos, while being opposed to whaling by Japanese. (Note: I do not know if their claim is true). Anyway, the foreign guy explained that Eskimos have - unlike Japanese - been eating whale meat for hundreds and hundreds of years due to the lack of other things to eat in their territories. The Japanese side tried some weak arguments about how "that was long ago" (a funny argument for someone who started with claiming how Japanese had been eating whale meat since "long ago"). The foreign guy told them how the eating habits of the Eskimos where reported to be like that even recently in a number of studies.

Next argument: how mink whales were no longer regarded as endangered species since xxxx (I forgot the year). "No longer?" replied the foreigner, "meaning that Japan had indeed being hunting an endangered species just to eat it?". The Japanese side didn't really like that one :P

Moreover he said that some other organisation still regarded mink whales as endangered. So, Japan is hunting a species which might still be endangered.

After that the discussion was pretty much over. The Japanese side was completely humiliated, and ended up with claims about how tasty whale meat is (probably in an attempt to upset the foreign guy), and with claims about how the foreign guy's way of discussing things was not fair. Ironically, THEY ended up calling HIM "emotional"...

As a conclusion: even though many Japanese feel very strongly about this whole whaling issue, most of them seem to have absolutely no idea what they were talking about. Every single argument they made could be easily shown to be not true. Still, no sign of changing their mind of course. No, they were too busy being offended by how this foreigner kept on using facts to support his claim.

If Australia wants Japan to stop whaling, they could ban Japanese goods and buy Korean cars and electronics. Case closed.

Japanese are not taught to think critically.

Hinozke,

Japanese are not taught to think critically.

Yes. Australian should be taught the same also.

And the point of this research that needs 1000 whale corpses is what exactly

I explained it in detail in the other recent thread about whaling. The mods do not want me to repeat it here, so I won't.

Patrick Smash,

I do not know about court much, but Japanese research programme is providing the research for the whale eaters. It is by rule of IWC. The judge should accept the rule of IWC, not by opinion of anti-whalers. Of course, IWC scientists agree the value of the research.

This time follow through on it. The international pressure alone, and embarrassing footage, might be enough to get Japan to stop. Make a documentary like the one where they slaughter all the dolphins, and get the same director to direct/produce it, play it internationally. The only way Japan realizes it's being an utter ar$e is for it to see itself that way from other countries' media. They won't stop otherwise.

As to Okada's idiotic 'food culture' comments, how long has Japan been sending ships to the antarctic, and how many Japanese eat whale? Are they going to pretend again like they've been sending whaling fleets to the antarctic for hundreds of years?

Go Australia! This will be good support for anti-whaling activists, as well.

Australian babies should quit crying, I like my whale steak well done. I like refried whales. I like experimenting with whales. Who cares about whales really? They use too much space.

smithinjapan,

Whalers did not have the boat to go to the antarctic for the whales in hundreds of years ago. So we could not catch them until we obtain the boats for doing so, before Pacific war. We are grateful to Norway for the good whaling technology.

ihope2eatwhales: "Whalers did not have the boat to go to the antarctic for the whales in hundreds of years ago."

Geez... ya think? Hence my facetious comments, my friend, which point out that Japan's argument that 'eating whale meat is a centuries old custom' is ludicrous when they use it to defend whaling IN THE ANTARCTIC!

"We are grateful to Norway for the good whaling technology."

As far as I know, Norway sticks more or less to the space around its nation. I don't think they force it on their kids for school lunch, either, or lie about scientific research.

"food culture"is right.We are often eating whale.(especially old age ppl).And whale eats many fishes.Thats why we should eat whale.If you dont eat whale,then you must not eat sushi.especially Japanese should eat whale.Because whale is a god.well..of course I think foreigners cant understand this.

Patrick,

It is not the commercial whaling. This is paused by IWC decision of 1980s. Now, sale of whale meat supports research, plus tax. We wish to change it back.

The previous government was on the verge of abandoning whaling because all the bad press it gets Japan around the world isn't worth the hassle; maybe this government will finally put an end to it?

And the point of this research that needs 1000 whale corpses is what exactly

Well, they "count" the whales by killing them one by one. Yup, if you want to count something there is only 1 way to do it: kill them. Japanese might say that there is no other way to do it. But hey, this is supposed to be research right: I say let them THINK about a way to do it without having to kill whales. But then again, this would lead to a shortage of whale meat. Which is the main goal of this "research".

And for this research Japan is using 5 to 10 億円 tax money per year. The rest (about 90%?) of the money used to fund this "research" comes from selling the meat.

But hey, this research gives Japan so much in return. 0 papers in top journals, a huge amount of international attention, and lack of funding in other more important areas of research.

"food culture"is right.We are often eating whale.

No you don't and the only time whale was being eaten at a large scale in Japan was after WW2. THAT is how far your ancient tradition goes back: 60 years.

And whale eats many fishes.Thats why we should eat whale.

I suggest you start eating Japanese. Because "Japanese eats many fishes".

ihope2eatwhales:"Yes. Australian should be taught the same also."

No,Australia is a developed country...kind of comes naturally.

As long as Japan's scientific research is good enough and IWC rules and international rules allow Japan to hunt whales, no one could not stop it even if the research data might be pretext. The problem is no other countries doesn't do same kinda scientific research like Japan does. (Anti-whalers can't much data from simple observation of whales). No one can't prove the data/evidence are true or not. All IWC members are using Japan's scientific research data/evidence to discuss agenda in meetings.

I hope Australia goes through with their actions.

Research on 10 whales not thousands, I'm sure people wouldn't mind that even if the research is crappy.

hmm..?? We are eating whale.This is true.It is a culture.first of all,it is served as public school lunch,though I dont know around"WW2" or something.

I suggest you start eating Japanese. Because "Japanese eats many fishes".> No comment for this comment. haha..

Don't get it.

1) The Japanese government claim their whaling is for "research".

2) Okada justifies this "research" with “I think food is an important element of culture".

Something fishy, no? And I'm not talking about the smell of the harpoons.

smithinjapan,

The catching of whales in the Antarctic is by the IWC rules. It has been such for a long time, even anti-whalers agreed to this. Eating whale is part of the food culture of Japan.

sarcasm,

Whale has been food culture for many hundreds of years. Thanks to Norway for good whaling technology, it could become more widespread since 100 years ago.

Potsu,

Australian is full of complaint about other culture. Even they are killing millions of animals for food. No one can listen earnestly to Australian.

You've been threatening for years! When I see a headline that uses the words TAKES LEGAL ACTION I'll pay attention. Until then you're just like any other politician ... a bag of hot air!

kyushujoe,

DPJ policy is for normal whaling to be started, once again. Whale eaters wish Australians would respect the whale food culture.

I have heard whale bento is really nice.I will try it definitely.whale tataki wasnt very nice..TT I forgot about fried whale..

international legal action, eh? Good luck to you Aussies who gotta foot the bill for that with your tax money. almost as useless a cause as Tokyo bidding for the Olympics.

Let's cool down a little. Yes I firmly agree that the self righteousness in the Australian position is highly inappropriate, particularly when Byron Bay, Moreton Is, Hervey Bay and many other Aussie towns were founded as part of the West's decimation of the world's whale population that continued up until the 80's. However comparison with the harvesting of kangaroos doesn't stick where Australia often has 'roos in plague proportions due to the wide availability of water bores post European settlement/invasion and we do not proceed beyond our own borders. I do sympathize as tourists hear that we sometimes eat our national symbol, but their consumption does in theory displace hoofed mammal grazing which has destroyed so much of Australia's land and rivers ecology. oAlmost all nations sanction the harvesting of various mammals and other intelligent creatures for consumption, with religious and other beliefs prohibiting the harvesting of certain animals (bovine species for Hindus for example) May I suggest we might all agree the issues in the case of any animal are 1) cruelty 2) whether they are a threatened species and how their numbers affect the food chain, and 3) where they are harvested - domestically or in areas for all nations to share.

ihope2eatwhales:" Australian is full of complaint about other culture"

Really ? Any examples ?

"Eating whale is part of the food culture of Japan"

Very funny....yeah,just look everywhere,nothing but Japanese eating whale !

Potsu,

Australian is always complaining about whale food culture.

DPJ policy is for normal whaling to be started, once again

Really? PM Yukio Hatoyama says he 'hates' whale meat and refuses to eat it. If he wants to keep his election promise to stop the waste of taxpayer money, he will be obliged to stop funding for the slaughter. The spending review committee established by Japan's new Prime Minister, Yukio Hatoyama, has recommended that funding for the Overseas Fishery Cooperation Foundation be cancelled after 2010.....The spending review committee has recommended that the Overseas Fisheries Cooperation Fund have all of its funding revoked, except monies needed for loans in 2010.

If the loans for whaling are revoked, it is unlikely the Institute of Cetacean Research can continue to operate. Reports in the Japanese media claim that the Institute has failed to fully repay more than one billion yen in previous OFCF loans.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/nov2009/2009-11-12-01.asp

cleo,

Check DPJ manifesto. It is clear.

Also, today I checked Minister Okada's comments carefully. He reject claim of anti-whalers about whaling industry and amakudari. Even if there is the problem, it does not mean the end of the whaling. Only the end of amakudari.

The anti-whaling propaganda deceives you, I think.

I did a search of the on-line manifesto and came up with not a single hit for くじら、クジラ or 鯨. But there's lots about cutting waste.

I was in Europe last year. I never bought up the topic of whaling, but often when people found out I lived in Japan they brought up the topic. Overall I would say that most peoples reaction was that they felt their intelligence was being insulted by the Japanese claims of research. Of course one only has to turn on the TV in Japan or visit a Japanese school to know that having your intelligence insulted is par for the course in japan, but apparently many non-Japanese don't like it. The second cause of anger was that the whaling was going on in the antarctic. Japan hunts whales near its own waters and there is no international outcry or campaign to stop it.

I feel sorry for sll the Australians in Japan, they might not get their visas renewed now.

Not only Japan is whaling nation. Norway and Iceland too. Aussie also has to sue that Scandinavian nations. According the history, Moreton Bay Byron Bay, Harvey Bay and some towns were founded with expense of whales. Whales have been slaughtered for more than a century in down under. Sadly these area became tourist attraction. As a tourist I feel guilty about visiting the popular bays. Whale watching in that area will give me the unpleasant memory of Whales suffering and death .

Falcon or eagle is the national emblem of US. Slaughtering and eating this treasured animal will be crime and deserve to be punished with the leather injection. Same rules should be applied for roos. Lamb are so cute before they become meat. Instead of eating them, I prefer to eat myself.

If PM and his fellows are vegetarians it is convincing me about their sympathy of wild life. However they are not! Traffic should be two way.

Commercial whaling on the scale of the Japanese programme will finish in the near future. The momemtum is struggling - literally gasping. As I've said on these threads before, personally I don't give a hoot what whalers want to do - they have to live their charade, but simply it's over.

Eating bear meat was more of a tradition in Japan than eating whale, but it finished even though the numbers of "rogue" bears increases.

I'll say it again - it's over, finito, kaput, done with, gone, passed on and it aint coming back. Get a handle on it. Move on.

@ ihope2eatwhales

"DPJ policy is for normal whaling to be started, once again."

Got a reference for that?

browny1, guess i'd better stock up then. whale is some goood eats.

starrise - "food culture"is right.We are often eating whale.(especially old age ppl).And whale eats many fishes.Thats why we should eat whale.If you dont eat whale,then you must not eat sushi.especially Japanese should eat whale.Because whale is a god.well..of course I think foreigners cant understand this.

Ah, here it is. The most ridiculous post in these threads. Congratulations! Very few whale species eat fish. Most, including Minki whales eat krill and plankton. I can retire for the evening now. Classic!

Dis-san. Thanks for your cheer. well.. is your comment based on the Norway Jp investigation some years ago? I have read that Minku and Makko whale eat fishes 131-186kg/ a day.I dont know very well aout whaling problem.But is the data false? or are you saying other meaning?

Guhaha. I believe Jp meat is better.Because "Japanese eats many fishes".

"Traditional" whaling was carried out in small timber boats, with hand thrown harpoons, & carried out with a respect for nature which included self imposed rules of NOT killing pregnant females, nursing mothers, or calves. So if we go back to your "traditions" which are SO important to you, then let's see you row to Antarctica, & catch whales in your "traditional" manner, where the whale has as much chance of killing the hunter as the hunter does of the whale, NOT the cowardice way you conduct it now, in boats that can outrun the whales, with sonar & other devices to locate them, without explosive harpoons, & in your own waters, OHHH that's right you have decimated your whale population to a point where you can no longer hunt whales there! You have forsaken your ancestors "traditions" of not killing "sacred" mothers & calves, & in doing so you are bringing upon Japan the "karma" or "bad luck" that comes with it. Just as George Bush,(Snr & Jnr), destroyed USA's international respect, so are you doing the same to Japan now in the rest of the worlds eyes. Just as you say "ohh but Norway or Iceland do it, so why cant we?" Well if another human murders or rapes someone does that mean in court we can say "ohh he did it, so why cant I?" You know this is a futile & hypocritical argument, & NO we do not believe your "scientific research" argument,(& MR USA NO they do not use them for cancer or AIDS research), & the hunting in Antarctica can be argued with the counter of you do not let others hunt in you exclusion zones,(& Antarctica IS a designated whale sanctuary), & it is already obvious to the world it IS commercial whaling under the guise of scientific, so just as Bush's foreign policy bought much shame to America, so is the senseless slaughter of whales & dolphins bring MUCH shame to Japan. Just as you have raped the worlds oceans of fish stocks, you wish to destroy all stocks in it. Wake up Japan, if you destroy the oceans inhabitants not only are you stealing yours & the rest of the worlds future generations for your own greed, but you are destroying the planet & all life on it as we know, so stop believing the propaganda spoon fed to you, start thinking, & acting as a members of society of the planet, not just Japan...

They must really love whale meat to go that far to catch them.

Eating whale is the cornerstone of Japanese society without a doubt. And only Japan has four seasons. That too is a well known fact in Japan.

starrise; I beleiev Jp meat is worth, what with all the mercury in the whale and dolphin. Tee Hee!

Legal action would be great. Let`s end this charade once and for all.

cleo, kyushujoe,

Here you are.

http://www.dpj.or.jp/policy/manifesto/seisaku2009/15.html

DPJ supports the whaling, of course. I do not think there exists a party in Japan that does not support the whaling.

Do not believe the anti-whaling propaganda easily. Japan will never end the whaling.

Zenpun,

As much as I'd personally like that to see that happen, Australia need not take action against Scandinavian countries for multiple reasons. Norway and Iceland do not claim to kill under the guise of scientific research. Unlike Japan, their food industry is heavily dependent on the meat. Besides, if it got to such a stage Australia's action would vastly outnumber the pro-whaling countries.

good one Kev - your posturing is only going to further damage the image of Australia as a tourist destination for the japanese... 10 years ago we pulled nearly 800,000 a year from japan and now its barely half that... statements like this will not endear australia to the japanese at all

Not only Japan is whaling nation. Norway and Iceland too. Aussie also has to sue that Scandinavian nations.

Scandinavian nations don't hunt whales in the southern ocean - in the Australian whale sanctuary. Killing whales doesn't affect the Japanese tourist industry but it does affect the Australian tourist industry.

According the history, Moreton Bay Byron Bay, Harvey Bay and some towns were founded with expense of whales. Whales have been slaughtered for more than a century in down under.

And when there was no reason to kill them, we stopped. When we saw them on the verge of extinction, we stopped. Now Australians make money from whales as a tourist attarction and nothing gets hurt in the process.

Sadly these area became tourist attraction. As a tourist I feel guilty about visiting the popular bays. Whale watching in that area will give me the unpleasant memory of Whales suffering and death .

Maybe if you were in Eden, but not the places you mentioned. There's no evidence left of the whaling stations in most parts of Australia. Why would you feel uncomfortable seeing places where whaling occurred when you are defending the Japanese right to continue the slaughter?

Sydenham - Yep, too right. If you're a blubber boy then you'd best start stockpiling. Maybe you can get eco-points for a whale size freezer. Happy blubbering. Go Syd.

ihope2eatwhales - never end????? Ha, Ha. You'd better join blubber boy and stock up. Rest assured it'll be lean cuts 10 years from now.

And frankly I hope all whale eaters just keep on eating it in large amounts - 3 times a day or more. Get it into you. Gourge. Partake in the local culture. Don't be shy.

“I think food is an important element of culture and therefore there is a need to mutually respect and recognize each other’s culture,” Okada said

This is exactly what I've been saying. When the topic whaling comes up, the Japanese start talking about their very precious "food culture".

How the hell does Japan's culture include the Antarctic?!

This is just arrogant and greedy... there is no other way to describe it. According to the Japanese government's data there are an abundance of whales in the seas around Japan... more than enough for this tiny tiny niche market.

The government of Japan's policy is dragging Japan's name through the mud and it's sickening to watch. For a Japan-lover like me it is just incomprehensible and almost tragic.

One of the admirable Japanese traits is that they like to look around and be careful about becoming a "meiwaku". That means that they don't want to offend other people or tread on other people's toes. It's a very nice and traditional Japanese trait. I like it very much.

So how about whaling in the Antarctic? How about the fact that every single country nearest to the Antarctic opposes Japan's whaling down there. Every single one!! Chile, Argentina, South Africa, New Zealand. These countries in the southern hemisphere nearest to the Antarctic naturally feel an affinity for this region.

How on earth can Japan, with its traditional concept of being careful not to be a "meiwaku" just ignore all these countries!? Does it hate them? Does it want to make enemies? Are whale steaks for Japanese ojisans in izakayas really more important than friendships with these countries?!

Japan's whaling policy has been hijacked by nationalist extremists.

I think most people, me included, have no problem with Japan taking whales in the seas around Japan.

The problem is these greedy and arrogant expeditions with a massive Victorian era style fleet to the furthest reaches of the globe to grab resources from a pristine wilderness environment... Japan really needs to think again!

Scandinavian nations don't hunt whales in the southern ocean - in the Australian whale sanctuary. Killing whales doesn't affect the Japanese tourist industry but it does affect the Australian tourist industry.

Just becuase Australia says it's an Australian whale sanctuary does it make it so. It's not recognized international as being Australia territory or Australia could have arrested the whalers and charged them in Australian court. Why would the effect on the Australian tourist industry be of any concern to Japan they're fishing in International waters. Perhaps Japan could counter Australia for thier inhumane kangaroo and dingo culling makes about as much sense.

Perhaps Japan could counter Australia for thier inhumane kangaroo and dingo culling

If the Antarctic whales were swimming around Lake Biwa, comparing them to kangaroos would make sense.

They are not.

The whales are being grabbed from a pristine wilderness environment... a precious and unique part of our world that is relatively untouched.

Does that mean anything to Japan in the 21st century?

Many perhaps don't know of the Madrid Agreement. This agreement signed by the international community pledges to preserve the Antarctic solely for peaceful scientific research. It even bans mining for resources down there. What a beautiful and amazing thing that countries could agree to that!!

So does Japan decide to adopt the spirit of the Madrid Agreement in regards to other activities in the Antarctic?

No it does not!! It just swaggers arrogantly down there, grabs the whales and sneaks them back to Japan... making sure the nostalgic ojisans get their whale steak is all that matters to Japan!

Japan just sees this beautiful natural wilderness as a place to greedily grab resources... it has no interest in the value of this environment as an area of wild beauty... just grab, grab, grab... that's the Japanese mentality here.

This is almost as bad as the boat loads of tourist who chase down whales to get a picture during whale season. Sure it's not as harmful as killing them but it does bother them.

Perhaps Japan could counter Australia for thier inhumane kangaroo and dingo culling makes about as much sense.

Goodjorb, unfortunately you need to do some research. If you ever visit Australia, you will find Kangaroos (and to a lesser extent) dingos are pests in many situations. They are far from endangered. Whales and Dolphins cannot be considered pests by any culture/country. You are alone in your railing against the world, Goodjorb, you are gonna have to come up with a better argument to hunt dolphins/whales than scientific research.

If the Antarctic whales were swimming around Lake Biwa, comparing them to kangaroos would make sense.

Whales, dingos and Kangaroos are all animals that inhumananly harvested/culled/killed. The only viable agrument Australia has is that Japanese are killing the whales in an inhumane fashion and they really don't have a leg to stand in that case.

It just swaggers arrogantly down there, grabs the whales and sneaks them back to Japan.

This is contradictory, swaggers arrogantly down and then they sneak them back to Japan. Hard to sneak away from a place you swaggered arrogantly down to.

Many perhaps don't know of the Madrid Agreement. This agreement signed by the international community pledges to preserve the Antarctic solely for peaceful scientific research. It even bans mining for resources down there.

Not unlike the Alaskan/Artic sanctuaries, where oil and resources mining has been banned, yet fishing fleets still catch crabs and salmon in and around the area. Grab, grab, grab I guess.

If you ever visit Australia, you will find Kangaroos (and to a lesser extent) dingos are pests in many situations.

I was speaking to fashion in which they are killed, inhumanely.

You are alone in your railing against the world, Goodjorb, you are gonna have to come up with a better argument to hunt dolphins/whales than scientific research.

I personally think the should drop the scientific bit and just say they are commercially catching dolphins/whales. If by railing against the world, you mean arguing against hypocrisy, then sure that's what I'm doing. Killing/harvesting/culling one type of animal is no more illegal then killing any type of animal, as long as it's done in a sustainable fashion. Me being alone is extremely assumptive and hyperbole, of course there are others who think that Japan should be able catch whales or there wouldn't even be this new item in the frist.

First of all this purely rhetoric and there's not a cat in hell's chance he could follow through with this. Secondly, Japan is a voluntary member of the IWC, set up to ensure that whaling can be carried out without adversely affecting whale populations. Thirdly, Japan can leave the IWC and hunt as many whales as it sees fit. Finally, if Rudd wants Japan to provide scientific data then Japan will ask Rudd to ask why this is neccesary. Because if whales aren't endangered (Minke not Humpback) there would be no reason to stop Japan hunting whales.

Whales, dingos and Kangaroos are all animals that inhumananly harvested/culled/killed.

A basic rule when debating is to compare like with like. Even high school debaters know this

So compare kangaroos killed in Australia with deers culled in Hokkaido... they are similar things.

A massive armada of killing ships burning 1000s of tonnes of fuel, sent to a pristine wilderness area on the other side of the globe to grab resources in the name of food culture(!)... that is something different.

How does Japan's "food culture" include the Antarctic? Please explain that.

Hard to sneak away from a place you swaggered arrogantly down to.

Watch the Japanese do it... you'll soon see their methods.

Not unlike the Alaskan/Artic sanctuaries

Going back to comparing like with like... how about if the Ozzies and Kiwis sent huge armadas up to these Alaskan sanctuaries, in the face of opposition from all the countries that considered this region to be their neck of the woods? How about if the Ozzies and Kiwis ignored all of those countries and just grabbed resources to protect their "barbecue culture"? Could you imagine it? If you could, that is how arrogant and greedy the Japanese are being with their Antarctic whaling.

The funny thing is that according the Japanese government's data there are abundant whales in the seas around Japan! More than enough for a tiny niche market.

Japan needs to stop this disgusting practice and conform to the rest of the world.

what about respecting Japanese culture yuri? Should not the rest of the world show some respect to how tight the culture of Japan is tied to seafood consumption? Now do not get me wrong, I believe whaling is wrong but hearing that Japan should stop something because other powers say so, is not that an opening for Japanese to make the claim of economic/cultural imperialism.

Again, I think it (whaling) is wrong but one could easily say that chaining baby calf to the ground to make veal is as horrible, or eating dogs is bad. If the nations of the world signed a no veal treaty you can bet that the US would not give one hoot and Americans would continue to eat veal, perhaps even more often.

How does Japan's "food culture" include the Antarctic?

Again like the "scientific" research thing, I think Japan should just drop the silly propaganda, the should just say, like the rest of the world that fishes international, they are fishing international. As long as it done in a sustainable fashion, there shouldn't be a problem.

So compare kangaroos killed in Australia with deers culled in Hokkaido... they are similar things.

I see, so killing some animals inhumanely is different then killing other animals inhumanely. I don't believe in legal or ethical relativism, the only legal issue I could Australia suing Japan for internationally is the inhumane treatment of animals.

how about if the Ozzies and Kiwis sent huge armadas up to these Alaskan sanctuarie

The Spanish and the French send fishing fleets to fish the international waters just outside of the Canadian EEZ area of the Artic(which is almost a longer trip, considering they go around greenland), the Spanish crossed over into Canadian waters once and got arrested. Other then that one incident, Canada nor the rest of the world has never said it would take legal action or really even seems to cares because they know they can't, it's international waters and they do it to.

I'm rather curious just what "legal action" the Aussies could take? What would the penalties be? Everybody knows that the "scientific" loophole was put into the treaty for countries like Japan to exploit but it was necessary to get a treaty that protected the severely threatened species. I don't think the Aussies have a legal leg to stand on and the Japanese know it.

Sea Shepard also took sail this week. Australia should add two more and they can tail the Japanese ships while disavowing any connection, just like the Japanese disavowing commercial intent.

However Okada's comments show that research isn't the intent, since he was practially selling the whale meat industry, and thus justifies Australia's actions, even though they do not have a legal forum.

The whales are being grabbed from a pristine wilderness environment... a precious and unique part of our world that is relatively untouched.

Anytime I hear the term, pristine wilderness, I want to vomit. Really. As in its somehow, untouched by man. Thats whats really being said. Somehow, if a person has walked the ground, or sailed the area, it has been sullied. Sorry, but to me, thats just a bunch of nonsense.

I'm rather curious just what "legal action" the Aussies could take? What would the penalties be? Everybody knows that the "scientific" loophole was put into the treaty for countries like Japan to exploit but it was necessary to get a treaty that protected the severely threatened species. I don't think the Aussies have a legal leg to stand on and the Japanese know it.

They really don't. You can hate whaling or like it, but it doesn't change the fact that the Aussies haven't got a legal leg to stand on. And, Japan is only doing research as long as they're part of the IWC. If the group voted to ban whaling, including research outright, Japan would just withdraw their membership, and resume commercial whaling on their own, just like Norway and Iceland. Thats why despite the desire of the other IWC members, they leave the loophole in.

I thought this issue would change when the LDP hacks were kicked out with their right wing nutter support. But it seems the DPJ also wants to placate the right wing nuts who think whale meat is a staple of the Japanese diet. Its filled with mercury for crying out loud. You might was well suck on a broken thermometer and down the mercury that way.

Glad Rudd is pushing harder on this issue, it really does make Japan look like it is so out of touch with reality.

Last. comparing whales to dingos can only be done by someone who has eaten too much whale meat. The mercury is attacking the brain.

As if Japan really cares what Rudd says.

Rudd needs to stick a wok in it he is so on China's side, anything to rile the nihonjins

Triple888- Aus is becoming a bigger power. Australia doesn't fear Japan because of it's close tie with China.

tokyotom at 06:00 AM JST - 12th DecemberRudd needs to stick a wok in it he is so on China's side, anything to rile the nihonjins

The wale issue with Australia might lead to other trade frictions with Japan. Japan's bargaining power in annual price negotiations for Australian thermal coal risks being weakened by China's push to keep more domestic coal at home. Coal imports from China are on hold due to a dispute over who should pay Beijing's newly imposed 10% export tax on thermal coal, and a prolonged standoff would make Japan more reliant on supplies from Australia.There will be no major alternative source if China continues to cut (thermal coal) export volumes.Japan imports around 105 million metric tons of thermal coal each year, with some 60% of it coming from Australia. Thermal coal shipments from China account for around 10% of its imports, ranking the country as Japan's third most important supplier after Australia and Indonesia. Coal prices in the Asia Pacific market have more than tripled over the past two years due to rising demand from China and India, and structural problems including a lack of spare capacity at Australian ports.

threatens legal action means he won't do it this time, if ever. Even Australia moves closer to China now, Japan is still very very important. Toyota has just helped to produce Australian -made first hybrid car yesterday.

the harper

And when there was no reason to kill them, we stopped. When we saw them on the verge of extinction, we stopped. Now Australians make money from whales as a tourist attarction and nothing gets hurt in the process.

Sound like " Do as I told you. Not as I did it before". If comparing the slaughtered Whales amount for building the bays with Japanese whaling, I think whales amount of building bays wasted more lives. PM home state or sunshine state has made big bucks with Whales suffering and death. Queensland sand has more blood of whales than anywhere else until 1980. History will judge hypocrisy of PM.

JHansen, am from Okinawa :) remember? Whale meat is just disgusting and was only eaten when nothing else was available. The Japanese use to harvest those whales from open boats until the late 19th century. No rice and O'cha are part of our culture and whale meat was given to the poor and latter schoolchildren. YUCK! It is amazing that it is considered to be part of Japans "food culture".

Mr. Rudd with all due respect is just sword rattling to keep the issue in the world press. I myself don't care one way or another. I don't particularily care for whale meat but I also have no problem with sustainable harvest. Oh blah dee oh blah da but please everyone continue with your impassioned arguments.

Zenpun wrote:

Sound like " Do as I told you. Not as I did it before".

If we don't learn from history, what hope is there for the future? Are we just going to keep wiping out species until we're the only one left? I want to emphasise this - if whaling is about traditional culture then Japanese people should do it using traditional methods in Japanese waters. But don't try to claim that hunting ships and explosive harpoons are any part of "traditional culture", nor try to claim that hunting whales in the Antarctic is traditional. It's just an excuse to continue supporting an industry that is commercially unviable and only exists because of government subsidy. Even Japanese schoolchildren were banned from eating whale because of the high levels of contaminants.

Queensland sand has more blood of whales than anywhere else until 1980. History will judge hypocrisy of PM.

Anywhere else? What, including all the blood that pours off the decks of Japanese factory ships? Please don't spout rubbish like this unless you have figures to back it up.

And thanks YuriOtani for what I think is the perspective of a majority of ordinary Japanese.

I didn't know it was a tradition to have a few giant mobile whale processing plants thousands of miles away from your own country.

The mercury imbalances would explain a lot of the logic, or lack thereof. Also consider reducing paint thinner, and kerosene fumes.

the harper

I am anti whaling activist too. However I do not agree with your PM double standard. You may argue that I am defending for whaling business. Actually I am not! As a tourist, I have limited knowledge of sunshine state. My figure may not be accurate as you said. I treasure the wild life and appreciate as you.

Some Aussie are not happy about PM outspokenness too. Pls read the native Queenslander or Austrialian post here.

dolphinberserk1 at 07:07 PM JST - 11th December

Yes I firmly agree that the self righteousness in the Australian position is highly inappropriate,- - - -

PM feel he is superior than anyone else. He criticized his host Chinese government openly infront of students with Mandarin. Chinese authority prefer him to converse privately in meeting. According the Australian media I have read, Chinese are very upset about his bluntness even his Chinese is very fluent. He is so undiplomatic and bossy.

How does Japan's "food culture" include the Antarctic? Please explain that.

Japanese did not go to the Antarctic long time ago. But today there are better technologies and much better vessels unfortunately. Why Japan goes there? Because a lot of whales go gather down there around the Antarctic for abundant plankton and fish as food, it seems very simple reason to everyone. If no whales are down there, then Japan don't go. The Antarctic seems to be very convenient area for all whalers if they have better vessels and technology, as you see, Whales are usually very very sparsely populated and moving around in huge ocean except Antarctic, and Can't find whales in Ocean easily even using advanced sonar radar.

If we don't learn from history, what hope is there for the future? Are we just going to keep wiping out species until we're the only one left?

That's what this argument is all about isn't it? That the Minke whale is on the verge of extinction and the Japanese are wiping it out. Interesting argument. Also completely and utterly incorrect. Word of advice if you're going to be anti-whaling use the inhumane argument not the endangered one. You might win with the inhumane, you can't possibly win with the endangered.

That's what this argument is all about isn't it? That the Minke whale is on the verge of extinction and the Japanese are wiping it out.....completely and utterly incorrect

I think you'll find more pro-whalers trying to use the straw man 'endangered species' argument in reverse - they're not endangered so we can take as many as we like, in whatever way we like.

They fail to see that that logic could also be used by a mad serial killer taking pot shots at people on the streets of Tokyo - there are far too many of them, no danger of them disappearing, why not take out a few.

But taking 1000 a year does not endanger them. If Japan were to leave the IWC it could be disastrous for the whales. However this way they take a relatively small amount without adversely impacting the whale population or the survival of the species.

And sorry Cleo but to link whaling to serial killing is left wing loony tree hugging Greenham Common nonsense. And I really expect better from you.

The only possible arguments for Japan to stop whaling are the possible inhumanity, the alleged stockpiles and the subsidization by the government. They're the arguments that can be won. The other can't because it's simply incorrect and I can't criticise people for eating a type of meat when I am a meat eater myself. It's hypocritical. There are far more species under greater threat than the Minke Whale that should be better protected.

I'm not sure of what all other whalers think. At least Japan learned something from the history and hence they will not exterminate all whales. According to the research, they found some whales are seriously endangered and some whales are not. Japan wants to take some sustainable amount of abundant whales from there as food. That's why scientific research is very important to hunt although anti-whalers think the research is fake or pretext or something. At least Japan don't want to exterminate all as long as whales are food.

to link whaling to serial killing is left wing loony tree hugging Greenham Common nonsense.

I'm not linking whaling to serial killing. I'm linking the loony idea that 'if there are lots of them, It's OK to kill, and to kill slowly and painfully' idea to indiscriminate killing in a crowded city.

the possible inhumanity

possible????

I can't criticise people for eating a type of meat when I am a meat eater myself. It's hypocritical.

There are laws governing the treatment of the animals you eat. It's illegal to subject them to prolonged suffering and stress at time of slaughter. If the same laws applied to whaling, it would be impossible to catch a single legal whale. (Though it cannot be denied that most of the meat you eat, if it is factory-farmed as most meat is these days, is the result of a great deal of suffering in the way the animals are raised.)

I'm linking the loony idea that 'if there are lots of them, It's OK to kill

So why do we eat any meat or fish?

My original point was aimed at one post in particular and the vast majority of anti whalers who have no idea what they're talking about. The whales are NOT endangered. It's simply not true and there are hundreds if not thousands of studies that support this.

With regards to the humanity of it. I don't have enough knowledge to comment. I don't know if the whales suffer more than fish or crabs or any other sea creature which is caught. I've said on this argument in the past that I can't argue against whaling based on the humane side of it. But I will always argue against people who claim that the Japanese are driving a species to extinction because that simply isn't true.

And Kevin Rudd knows this.

@cleo - Do you think Japanese don't think its length of pain at all? Surely they are thinking it as this is one of criticism. They are developing new multi-harpoons, more powerful harpoon, electric harpoon to kill instantly. But I'm not sure if they already used it or not.

I don't think it truly matters what technique is used to kill. Many people are just so anti-whaling that they can't accept any whaling at all. To be honest, I really don't care one way or another. And, as long as the species being hunted, is not under threat of extinction, I won't care. I tend to favor whaling though, simply because of the tactics used against it, and the vitriol and hatred by those opposed to it. I figure, if PETA is against it, it must be good.

Has anyone here actually eaten it? I have, and I like it, so I want to eat it sometimes. If it didn't taste good, there would be hardly any demand for it.

Zenpun wrote

As a tourist, I have limited knowledge of sunshine state. My figure may not be accurate as you said. I treasure the wild life and appreciate as you.

OK, so please think twice before posting claims that you can't back up.

Some Aussie are not happy about PM outspokenness too. Pls read the native Queenslander or Austrialian post here.

Actually, I lived in Queensland from 1984 to 2006 and I am a native Australian. I'm perfectly fine with our PM being outspoken about Japanese ships hunting whales in the Australian whale sanctuary. Yes, I know that Japan doesn't recognise that sanctuary, that is obvious.

Sometimes, things only change if people say things that others might not like. If the Australian government object to Japanese whaling, they are within their rights to say so. Do you really think that the only kind of diplomacy is the kind performed out of the glare of public attention?

As for Kevin Rudd speaking candidly in putonghua I say bravo! The only people John Howard seemed to want to talk to were the Americans and Europeans. Our current PM and cabinet recognise that geographically, Australia is in Asia, and we need to engage with our neighbours and primary trading partners.

I can't understand why any Japanese person should expect Australians to be happy about Japanese whaling ships breaking Australian laws on our doorstep. Please tell me who is being disrespectful under these circumstances?

If it didn't taste good, there would be hardly any demand for it.

It doesn't, and there isn't.

Cleo - "It ( whale meat ) doesn't ( taste good )"

Have you ever tasted it?

I tasted it once, and that's most likely the last time.

"there isn't ( any demand for whale meat"

Yes there is. Can you believe that?

Sarge - Yes, once long ago when I used to eat cows and pigs and chickens and other disgusting things, I tried tinned whale meat. It was foul. One other time I was offered whale bacon, and it looked so vile I wasn't even tempted.

There isn't hardly any demand for it - that isn't grammatical, is it? The fact remains, the market is extremely small. I don't know anyone under the age of 60 who wants to eat it. And I don't know anyone of any age who wants to pay extra taxes just so's other folk can eat it.

Rudd is an idiot.. He has no business telling us we can't have sustainable whaling in international waters. I really hope Japan leaves the IWC permanently and the crybabying by the humaniacs backfire and we begin to take several thousand Minkes annually instead. lol.. What's the point of the IWC and it's charter? I would think sustainable whaling of certain species backed by scientific study for the purpose of consumption is well within the original purpose of the organization???

I'd prefer Japan not conduct whaling for the damage it does to its reputation, and nothing more.

These whales are a sustainable resource, not endangered or threatened. Taking them from Antarctic waters is not a problem, anyone or any country complaining about that fact had better only be eating local foods, and not anything imported or grown abroad. Australia's unilateral declaration of a sanctuary carries zero weight legally. Whales have been unnecessarily sentimentalized - they're animals just like any other. Why is killing a whale worse than killing a kangaroo, a sheep, or a cow?

Yes, Japan should stop whaling, but not for the Greenpeace press release and nationalistic (verging on racist) reasons spouted here.

Stupid animals. They should have thought about this before they found themselves lower down in the food chain. Especially the cute ones who glide majestically through the waters and inspire all kinds of crazy rants.

Japan is fine and right to go ahead with consuming this manageable resource. The so-called "loophole" should never have been allowed in the first place if it were not to be used.

I don't know anyone under the age of 60 who wants to eat it.

Well maybe you should consider spending more time with this demographic Cleo, and less time spouting from your porch in the sticks.

And I don't know anyone of any age who wants to pay extra taxes just so's other folk can eat it.

Then I hereby raise my hand.

“If we cannot resolve this matter diplomatically, we will take international legal action. I’ve said that before—I’m serious about it.”

No you're not. Wonder if that tough talk will fly over on the plane with you.

The comments of cleo were very interesting. If cleo has the correct knowledge of whale eaters, I wonder cleo would have the nicer opinion of this issue. Minister Okada has the correct knowledge. Many Japanese are also impressed by him, and now wish he would be Prime Minister of Japan because of his good comments.

Cleo is right on the spot. There aren't anyone below 60 that want to eat whale meat. It's those yakuza fisherman that want to keep their income coming and just want to destroy marine life. In sake of profit. It is up to common person to limit their consumption of wild life. I'm doing my part. Please don't encourage fisherman to rip life out of oceans by paying them money for what they do. It will be our children who will pay the price. Are we smart enough to leave the world as we found it, to future generations? Or will we be known as the generation that destroyed it all.

Then I hereby raise my hand.

You have no intention of eating whale yourself, but you want to pay extra taxes so that others can indulge?

You have no intention of eating whale yourself

Here you go again claiming to speak for others.

but you want to pay extra taxes so that others can indulge

I would do it to defend your attempts at cultural imperialism and to highlight that animals are not people, even the cute ones.

It's all very good and well of you to bash the meat-eating society, but your little porch in the sticks would not have been possible without it.

Damien15,

There aren't anyone below 60 that want to eat whale meat.

It is not true.

It's those yakuza fisherman that want to keep their income coming and just want to destroy marine life.

I am sure many yakuza also enjoy whale and the other sea food. It is normal thing to eat sea food. We must take a little of each type of sea food, to help keep balance of sea ecosystems.

We must take a little of each type of sea food, to help keep balance of sea ecosystems

I disagree, oceans do not need our effiorts of balancing. It has been balancing itself for millions of years before humans stepped in. Also, this is the last time I'm replying to your threads. We understand, you just want to eat whales. I don't agree that notion is a reasonable one. One thing I know, if everyone in the world think and acted like Cleo, we'd have no worry looking into the future. Think hard of the reason why you are favoring killing destroying over preserving and protecting.

Think hard of the reason why you are favoring killing destroying over preserving and protecting.

Preserving? You mean by taking a small percentage of an animal population that doesn't endanger the overall security species? Such as cows, crab, certain species of fish, Minke whale etc.

Or are you suggesting that everyone be a vegetarian?

Moderator: Vegetarianism has nothing to do with this discussion.

Here you go again claiming to speak for others.

It was a question, not a statement.

I would do it to defend your attempts at cultural imperialism

I would say forcing people to pay to support something they detest/have no interest in, was cultural imperialism. Culture supports itself; if it needs to be supported artificially, that's policy, not culture.

Dangerously close to trying to force your values on to others there Cleo.

"Think hard of the reason why you are favoring killing destroying over preserving and protecting.

Preserving? You mean by taking a small percentage of an animal population that doesn't endanger the overall security species? Such as cows, crab, certain species of fish, Minke whale etc.

Heda -

Nothing anyone writes on a message board forces anything on anyone.

Hence the 'trying to' part.

i'm under 60 and eat raw whale meat sometimes when its available at a sushi place i go because it actually tastes good. the first time, if i wasn't told me what it was i could have mistaken it for a good piece of maguro.

Whaling is wrong and should be stopped. Japan is lying about their scientific efforts. It is masked commercial whaling... PERIOD!

I think Cleo is basically right.

My goodness.

What I object to is upsetting other nations by whaling in their back yards

Pfft. Whose back yard?

Why does the taxpayer have to fork out for this?

Surely an insignificant figure compared to some other frivilous/unnecessary expenditures, no? And without going off topic, I could name a certain mess in another part of the world which is far more expensive, has much more opposition, and costs human lives. But you don't see them stopping because other people don't like it, do you?

Japan is lying about their scientific efforts.

Blame the IWC. They set up the rule - whaling permitted for "research." OK then - it's for "research."

Hurry up with your investigation, boys. I'm getting hungry.

Japan's scientific research based on its whaling endeavors has revealed the characteristics of whale meat when subjected to a chemical mix of Aspergillus oryzae, Aspergillus soyae, roasted grain, water, and salt - and the overall effects of the altered meat on human papillae.

What I object to is upsetting other nations by whaling in their back yards

Because the Antarctic is in Australia's back yard isn't it? It's more out the back yard, hop over the fence, cross the road and then keep going for a few kilometres. A few thousand kilometres. A bit like the Himalayas are in the UK's backyard.

Heda & Rogue: Kill, destroy, eat, support the ones that kill, destroy and eat!

Cleo and all others: Don't kill, protect, preserve, respect, love, peace.

Hmm, hard decision who to side with.

Clever Rudd. The Aus economy is not doing too hot. Shift focus and outrage on to Japan.

Heda & Rogue: Kill, destroy, eat, support the ones that kill, destroy and eat!

I presume that you don't eat meat Damien? And at what point have I talked about destroying? Just make it up as you go along...

Heda -

If I know that writing on an Internet message board cannot force anyone to do anything, how can I be 'trying to' force anyone to do anything? Persuade, yes; force, t'ain't possible. No point even trying. So let's stop the 'you're forcing me against my will' rubbish, shall we?

the first time, if i wasn't told me what it was i could have mistaken it for a good piece of maguro.

It's meat, not fish.

an insignificant figure compared to some other frivilous/unnecessary expenditures, no?

Maybe, but all those insignificant figures all add up. Hence the budget review shake-up the new government hopes will end up producing doshes of money. 'A is just as bad as B' doesn't mean we should keep both A and B; it means both A and B should go.

'A is just as bad as B'...Trying to say that two wrongs make a right is a very weak argument

What's wrong with you? The example I put out there was just one of many that could be brought up to illustrate the sheer insanity of Pat's baffling throw-away

...and those around me dislike it, I should probably listen to them when they ask me to stop. If the government actually has to subsidise blah blah blah

Don't make me tell how you how tall I am, Pat.

Now as for this

Cleo and all others: Don't kill, protect, preserve, respect, love, peace.

Powerful stuff. Raw emotion. Precisely the kind of thing that appeals to those that have lost all sense of rationality and totted off into the trees to hug them.

Hmm, hard decision who to side with.

Let me know which way it went once you've calmed down and thought about it.

Where's my whale steak?

Big man, Pat. Big.

Easy target for a harpoon, you mean? :-)

Easy target for a harpoon, you mean? :-)

Ha ha no I'm quicker than those useless, yet delicious, blubberfish.

Still waiting for my fried whale. Godspeed, research vessels.

Pat stands almost 7 feet tall

Yes, I know :)

I think I could catch the whales myself with my baiting.

Now I know why Australia is complaining loudly about Japanese whaling.

Yes that and to distract attention from Rudd's abuse of staff - yelling, throwing files...what an animal.

Isn't he in Japan today? What have ya got Ruddy? Don't forget to bring up that whaling issue first thing.

That's not a knife. This, is a knife.

Let me know which way it went once you've calmed down and thought about it.

OK, I'm calm, I decided to side with you, the darkside. Where we should keep on killing whales and make it look like humans enjoy inflicting pain and suffering to innocent animals. I also admire your kindness. I love you too. I wish there were more of people like you in this cruel world.

the harper

Actually, I lived in Queensland from 1984 to 2006 and I am a native Australian.

If you are European decedent who have live there for more than three generations, you are Australian. However you are still not native Australian by my knowledge. Native Australian known as Aborigines are real meat lovers. They even ate Koalas or Wombats before. Not to mention Whales or Dolphins They ate almost everything before the government protected some animals. Therefore native are against the conservation and wild life.

If the fishing ship intruded Australian fishing zone, Navy has to catch and send them to jail. Appropriate fines can be made to shipping companies too. In my opinion, it is more effective way. Noise from media is just boosting for personal image.

Do you really think that the only kind of diplomacy is the kind performed out of the glare of public attention?

He is a political opportunist who is not shy about getting public and media attention. His comment is purely for domestic consumption. In my view, he and George Bush are not matured and wise enough to be the leaders.

At a news conference in Tokyo on Friday, Okada defended the whaling program and the right of Japanese to eat whale meat, noting that food is part of a nation's culture"

He's stated the Japanese position very clearly

Now, could someone please tell me how on earth the Antarctic is part of Japanese culture? I really want to know...

imacat, you should check carefully the comments of Minister Okada. As he says, whale is part of Japan's food culture. Anti-whalers cannot change it.

Anti-whalers cannot change it.

That is also remaining to be seen.

See what? whether 2 opposing views need to fight so that one becomes right? Certainly it would be better to say well, you think that, and I think this, and leave it at that. If the whales run out, youll know that the anti-whalers were right. While there is whale and a desperate need from a minor country such as Australia, they will be noisy. Maybe we should fix the needy, what are you needing to fix Damien15 that would make you less needy? While I think that Japan is a little far from home, I dont think this has anything to do with whales but the water. Possibly Japan is the only one who can push their view, say onto the US-probably about 'territory'. Australia also has no choice but to look like an idiot and rave on about the whales, while they really want to say is, I see it! I see the chess-like maneuver's in that pool-meaning something like, territory is everyone's, but you gotta live/be there to claim it.

Why not? Stir the young Australian's, they have a passion that would light the world! Pray.

ihope2eatwhales - "imacat, you should check carefully the comments of Minister Okada. As he says, whale is part of Japan's food culture. Anti-whalers cannot change it"

Okada's a politician and like Rudd will say and do anyhting for a vote. If he thinks there's more mileage in saving the taxpayers money, or improving Japans image abroad the ICRs budget would fall away quicker than you can blink. Anti-whalers cannot change it? Anti whaling governments have very high level contacts, I wouldnt be so cocky if I were you.

imacat, you should check carefully the comments of Minister Okada. As he says, whale is part of Japan's food culture. Anti-whalers cannot change it.

I'll post it here too:

The funny thing is: Japanese do NOT have this tradition (of eating whale meat). Go check the facts everybody: Japan introduced modern whaling techniques about 100 years ago and had at that time just a few dozens of whaling ships. Did they feed the entire country with just a few ships? No, they didn't. It is impossible. For comparison, Western countries has hundreds of such ships at that time.

So, NO Japan does not have a tradition of eating whale meat. What we can say is that some specific towns had such a tradition. Given these facts all we can say is that eating whale meat was a pretty minor custom in Japan, until about 80 years ago.

Nevertheless, Japanese keep on claiming how this whaling habit is their culture as if they were eating whale meat 5 times a week for hundreds and hundreds of years.

There must be very little people who know so little about their own culture as the Japanese.

SwissToni,

Anti whaling governments can not change the food culture of Japan.

sarcasm123,

Japanese do NOT have this tradition (of eating whale meat). Go check the facts everybody: Japan introduced modern whaling techniques about 100 years ago

Japan introduced the modern whaling techniques, because it has whale food culture.

What we can say is that some specific towns had such a tradition.

Culture of some specific towns is Japanese culture. Whaling culture spread across Japan over many centuries. It has grown wider and wider. Of course, it is the same thing with many culture, not just the whale.

ihope2eatwhales, why do you make Japanese-style mistakes in your English, when you were perfectly capable of speaking fluent English when you first started posting?

Your friend,

Altria

Japan introduced the modern whaling techniques, because it has whale food culture.

The "whale food culture" before that being just throwing spears from small boats, in even smaller numbers; or eating dead stranded whales. That is not "Japanese culture", but a "Japanese minor habit".

Culture of some specific towns is Japanese culture.

Most Japanese had never eaten whale before the introduction of modern whaling techniques. Thus, NOT eating whale was Japanese culture until about 100 years ago.

Whaling culture spread across Japan over many centuries.

Nope, it spread from about 1910 to 1960. All in all 50 years of nation-wide whale-eating. Is this the "Japanese culture" you are talking about?

Zenpun,

If you are European decedent(sic) who have live there for more than three generations, you are Australian.

Do us a favour and don't try to tell us who is Australian and who isn't. Australia doesn't have arbitrary generational conditions to residency.

or citizenship.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

sarcasm123,

You understand the whale food culture is one of the Japanese culture now, at least. It is enough.

But please have correct understanding, also.

The "whale food culture" before that being just throwing spears from small boats

Throwing spears from small boats is one of the old whaling method. It is not the whale food culture, which is the recipe of tasty whale. Japanese whalers of Edo age also used the netting method of catching whales. This is the unique one in Japan.

Needless to say, more whales could be caught with the Norwegian technology. Japanese would not start to use the new technology, if there was not the whale food culture.

it spread from about 1910 to 1960.

Please check history of development of Japanese whaling during Edo age.

You understand the whale food culture is one of the Japanese culture now, at least. It is enough.

No, I don't. I understand it is a minor habit. Smoking pot and doing chikan are more "Japanese culture" than whaling, for example, in my opinion. These have been done for centuries, and by a large part of the population, respectively. However, eating whale meat has not. Hence, it is just a minor habit.

Throwing spears from small boats is one of the old whaling method.

Yes, the one Japanese have been done for centuries, according to you.

It is not the whale food culture, which is the recipe of tasty whale.

Which started to be popular around 1910.

Japanese whalers of Edo age also used the netting method of catching whales.

How many ships did they use in the Edo period? In 1910 (Meiji period) there were only 28 whaling ships in Japan. Before that even less. So, my question to you: how many ships fished for whales during the Edo period?

This is the unique one in Japan.

If this uniqueness is important to you, you should support whaling using nets. However, at this time Japan does not do whaling using nets. Hence, it is not continuing its valuable tradition. Thus, we cannot say that the modern whaling is Japanese culture.

Needless to say, more whales could be caught with the Norwegian technology.

Meaning that before that there was only very few whale meat available in Japan. Which means very few people ate it. Which means it was just a minor habit, in some parts of Japan.

Please check history of development of Japanese whaling during Edo age.

Please see the number of Japanese whaling fish in 1910: 28. How many during the Edo period?

sarcasm123,

I think there are many more whale eaters in Japan than chikan. I think the chikan is a problem, rather than one of the culture.

If this uniqueness is important to you, you should support whaling using nets.

Important to me is the whale food culture. Old method of nets was very dangerous, and hard to catch many whales. The important one is to have whales to eat.

If you are interested in the whaling culture, please check areas of Taiji, Nagasaki, Kochi, etc in Edo age. The whale food culture was spread over large part of Japan, especially the west of Japan, such as these places.

Thanks to Norwegian whaling method, the whale food culture could spread to other place in Japan as well.

I think there are many more whale eaters in Japan than chikan. I think the chikan is a problem, rather than one of the culture.

I think many people see whale eaters more like a problem too, rather than part of a non-existing culture.

Important to me is the whale food culture.

Even though Japanese almost never ate whale meat before 1910? Or, are you an Eskimo? If you are an Eskimo, then what you are saying is correct. If you are Japanese you either have no idea about Japanese whaling history, or you are deliberately writing nonsense.

Old method of nets was very dangerous, and hard to catch many whales.

Wait wait wait... Hard to catch many whales? You mean that Japan did not catch many whales during the Edo period? So, not many Japanese could eat whale? In other words, it was not a major part of the Japanese culture?

I think you are right. It was only a minor habit.

If you are interested in the whaling culture, please check areas of Taiji, Nagasaki, Kochi, etc in Edo age. The whale food culture was spread over large part of Japan, especially the west of Japan, such as these places.

You are not making a lot of sense. If whaling was spread all over Japan, there would be no need to go to Taiji, etc. What you are saying is that whaling was in fact only a habit in Taiji and a number of other places. In other words: just a minor habit, in some parts of Japan.

Thanks to Norwegian whaling method, the whale food culture could spread to other place in Japan as well.

Yes, after 1910. Hard to call this a century old habit.

funkymoko

Do us a favour and don't try to tell us who is Australian and who isn't. Australia doesn't have arbitrary generational conditions to residency.

You confused yourself with your post. You have not read previous post between the harper and me. We are debating about Whaling history in Queensland. Whaling has been existed in down under for more than a century. My argument was native are pioneers of whaling and against the wild life. Some towns and bays in Qld have been founded with expense of whales.

Many people wanted to take easy credit with saying by themselves as real American, Australian and Canadian. Actually they are not. My argument is how many generations have they lived there? Have they really assimilated to their adopted nations? Are they economic refugee or fair weather residents? I have lived in Oz for more than eighteen yrs with Aussie passport. Am I a neutralized citizen? Yes! Am I a real Australian? No!

If you want to use the word "native", it is more debatable. Genuine native definition is deeper and hard to accept it. Even Japanese and Filipino are not native of their nations. Political correctness is not helpful for preserving the conservation. Let 's treasure the our mother nature heritage and treasure the wild life.

Each of the cultures was small, in the beginning. The big culture is small, before it become big.

And, if you say the small culture should not continue, then make Australians stop the eating of kangaroos. Eating the kangaroo is the smaller, younger culture than the whale food culture. Whale eaters would not say such a thing to Australians, though.

You mean that Japan did not catch many whales during the Edo period?

Of course. There was only the old whaling method.

As you know, the culture could flourish even more widely, because of the Norwegian whaling method. However, you can find many books of whaling and whale food culture in Edo age.

Each of the cultures was small, in the beginning. The big culture is small, before it become big.

I am happy to see that you admit that eating whale meat was only a minor habit before 1910. I am even willing to admit that many Japanese might have eaten whale during the period between 1910 and 1960. Now, however, whaling is again a minor habit. There is no need to make minor (stupid) habits (like chikan, telling lies, or whaling) into a major habit.

There is also no reason to continue stupid habits. Do you hear Americans saying that the US should continue slavery "because it is our tradition"? No, you don't. This is because Americans are not as stupid as you are.

And, if you say the small culture should not continue, then make Australians stop the eating of kangaroos. Eating the kangaroo is the smaller, younger culture than the whale food culture. Whale eaters would not say such a thing to Australians, though.

I don't care what Australians say or do. You are focussing too much on Australia, my dear. Japanese are making a fool of themselves in front of the entire world, not only in front of the Australians. So, I don't care what Australians say or do. I care about the stupid habits of Japanese.

(That being said, I would not be surprised if eating kangaroos is not an older habit than eating whales. So, perhaps eating kangaroo is a more important part of the human culture than eating whales?)

Of course. There was only the old whaling method.

Making eating whale meat just a minor habit. I know it, you know it (now).

As you know, the culture could flourish even more widely, because of the Norwegian whaling method.

Not "even more widely", because if was not flourishing at all before 1910. I do agree that it started to flourish after 1910 though, thanks to the Norwegian whaling method. This also leads us to the fact that hunting for whales is a more important part of the Western culture than it is of the Japanese culture. Western countries have been hunting whales for a much longer time, and at higher numbers than Japanese have. So, following your logic, it would be a good thing for all those Western countries to continue whaling. Luckily, Western people are not as stupid as the Japanese.

However, you can find many books of whaling and whale food culture in Edo age.

Yes, written by people who know nothing about whaling history in Japan, like you.

I think you only wish to deny the whale food culture. I can not talk to you about it.

I think you only wish to deny the whale food culture. I can not talk to you about it.

I think you learned today that eating whales is only a minor habit in Japan.

ihope2eatwhales - "Anti whaling governments can not change the food culture of Japan"

What tosh, the US is an anti whaling government and I would bet any sum more Japanese eat McDonalds than whale. France is an anti whaling government and I imagine French cuisine enjoys greater popularity in Japan than whale.

This whole food culture thing is a red herring, just like the 'research' weak justifications for people that cant see further than their belly.