Australian senator slams Japan over submarine capability comments

Even if it is true it is arrogant to say in public. It sounds like a PR own goal too.

If Japanese sub constrution industry commented, people might believe. These big mouth Japanese do not have qualification to talk like that. Or are they sabotaging Japan's private sab building companies?

"We’re worried about leaks to China once our technology is in Australia"

That one made me laugh. I seem to remember that it was Toshiba, a Japanese company, that sold sensitive US submarine technology to the USSR back in the day.

More generally speaking, insulting your customers isn't the best way to grow the market.

There is no shortage of lack of understanding of diplomacy or international politics by the Japanese blue bloods

Well, this doesn't surprise me - and I imagine the folks in MOFA, MOD and the Abe administration are going nuts about now - they have invested significant political capital in changing the rules to allow Japan to sell defense equipment overseas, and you have a couple of retired "experts" go out and tell the folks you plan to sell it to that they're not trustworthy or skilled enough.......

it just goes to show that Japan has a lot of learning to do before it becomes a player in the defense industry like it is in automobiles.........

Aso only had big mouth on economics and politics. At least he did not sabotage Japanese Industry operation.

If I were Australia, I'd get the German submarines, because.......it's German.

And for that Japanese captain, well, China probably already stole some of the Soryu-class blueprints....and they still opt for German engines for their vessels.

Japanese misplaced arrogance..... again.

Why don't the Australian just go to the source of the Soryu- class submarine, the Swedish A26 sub?

The Japanese Soryu class submarine is just a copy of the A26.

The Swedish sub, made by Kockums, is cheaper and has been fully tested in all depths and waters, while the Soryu so far has not been tested.

Even if they don't choose the A26, there are a lot better choices than the Soryu class; the Germans or French for example.

Another high ranking japanese official with foot in mouth disease. Those comments may cost the japan military industrial complex big. A simple bow wont and public apology wont work either. Nice work fellas.

Austrlia can build excellent military hardware... they just can do it at an affordable budget.

HongoTAFEinmateJun. 05, 2015 - 08:12AM JST

That one made me laugh. I seem to remember that it was Toshiba, a Japanese company, that sold sensitive US submarine technology to the USSR back in the day.

No, no. It was not "US submarine technology". What Toshiba sold was computer controlled 3D metal cutting machines, which could be used for producing submarine propellers or various civil products. And it was developed by Toshiba itself, thanks nothing to the US.

It is alarming how people modify and remember things.

The Japanese Soryu class submarine is just a copy of the A26.

Oh, Soryu is a copy of a paper project half its size and never built? Good luck.

To the main text, Xenophon should be more concerned about whether the Japanese claim is true. The Collins is HSLA steel equivalent to HY-100, and as you go more high tensile strength it is harder to work. The US was HY-80 for decades until Seawolf. If the Japanese or German or French steel is higher yield than that, they may just find the Japanese are right to their dear cost.

As for Toshiba, they didn't sell US tech. They sold some milling machines that would have been quite freely sold in the free world. It is just that Russophobia and anti-Communism was rampant that made it a problem.

Subs are delicious. 50 BILLION dollars to build subs in Japan would be amazing!! Maybe we could even start having provolone cheese available soon!!

wow what an idiot, potential huge military purchase by a customer and you insult them..... might be the Germans are more appreciative of Australian money. Im guessing there be a very heartfelt apology and a very deep bow coming soon to a J politition near you!

If they go for the German subs, Australia gets German engineering trained Australians as a side bonus. They have experience training machinist staff. France has more subs in service than Germany so there's experience there too but I don't know about overall sales. France robots saved Japan's bacon recently if I recall. Those two teams must be smiling at the headlines

Kazuaki Shimazaki

Oh, Soryu is a copy of a paper project half its size and never built? Good luck.

The engine and payload do and surprise surprise who should have an exact copy of it on their Soryu class submarine !!!!

Kawasaki Heavy Industries.

Why don't the Australians do they same as Kawasaki Heavy Industries, by the license from Kockums and modify their present Collins-class subs? After all the Collins class was built by Kockums in the first place.

The savings in cost would be substantial

Japan...behind the times

“We’re worried about leaks to China once our technology is in Australia,” he said.

Now that's rich. Coming from the country that leaked Aegis missile defense secrets because they had MSDF types taking home lap-tops and thumb-drives with the top-secret information on it. LOL.

HAHAHA, three words come to mind:

Baka, Baka & BAKA!!!! LOL!!

These two twits probably just recently finished read the book, The Japan that can so no, ............pathetic, too funny!

@CH3CHO

I actually seem to remember that Toshiba/Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk sold the hardware that produced the propellers which reduced propeller cavitation in clear breach of CoCom. Then again, what really got up the noses of the Washington was the fact that the algorithms underpinning the equipment were 100% American (possibly out some research that was done by CalTech and MIT on fluid dynamics).

political pressure to secure the thousands of manufacturing jobs that the build would bring, and Japan had previously seemed willing to compromise over where the submarines would be built.

It may be a joke for building Subs in Oz ! Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi have already said farewell to the unionized, uncompetitive and old fashioned Australian manufacturing industry.

Toyota is still profitable for exporting cars to middle east with Australia operation. However they can not sustain their sales target with union constant demand for pay rise with excessive leaves taking culture.

If Japan will be awarded with 50 billions for contract for building Subs in SA, union will blackmail the Subs contractors for sharing about quarter of money. Cost will be blow out beyond the budget and Subs building project will be same as large truck climbing the hill with low gear. Collin Class Subs building has burnt a lot of public money. Oz Government is willing to risk again for political interest.

Why is this story popping up again now?

These comments were made to ABC last September. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-15/japanese-concerns-over-submarine-deal/5743022

So they don't have enough skilled workers in Australia to fashion high-tension steel and Japanese submarine technology may not be safe in Australia and fall into the hands of China? I thought that was common knowledge. I guess the truth hurts and some two-bit Australian politician wants to make hay out if it. That's OK, Australia can get some second-rate subs from France or Germany (the Russians and Chinese already have that technology).

LoL. . . As long as those submarines don't feature screen windows and Takata Airbags, the Aussie Navy will be good to go.

Insult your customer, great, what a bunch of idiots.

This is crap. Basically you could go and ask anyone, anywhere for their comment on the matter and these people don't appear to be any part of the actual process, so their opinion doesn't even count. It's just the press trying to make an issue out of nothing by fishing for comments.

It could be difficult to make that particular type of steel. This more about Australian oposition political point scoring. Japan has invested much more time, recorces, and manpower in to reserching steel and design, Australia has many smart people but compare 109M to 22M population, its just a numbers game.

Impolitic, Japan. Very impolitic

I actually seem to remember that Toshiba/Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk sold the hardware that produced the propellers which reduced propeller cavitation in clear breach of CoCom. Then again, what really got up the noses of the Washington was the fact that the algorithms underpinning the equipment were 100% American (possibly out some research that was done by CalTech and MIT on fluid dynamics).

I still dislike Toshiba, even now, for selling those milling machines to the USSR. Directly affected my job and our ability to detect what used to be fairly noisy subs.

Australia has many smart people but compare 109M to 22M population, its just a numbers game.

Nothing motivates Australian people more than others saying they aren't up to the task

Nothing motivates Australian people more than others saying they aren't up to the task

These arrogant japanese engineers insulted Aussie ingenuity and have woken (once again) another sleeping giant-

Say goodbye to the contract arrogant Mr Kobayashi, really why would someone say such a stupid thing.

Step 1: how to win orders! Don't insult your customer, Step 2: remove large chip from your shoulder, Step 3: after apologising, resign your post in disgrace, step 4; Go home and read book on diplomacy.

@Wc626 In news just in, Austrade, the Australian government trade promotion agency, is sending a trade delegation to Japan to highlight the country's leading-edge engineering expertise. The hope is to bring a Hill's Hoist to every Japanese home.

Nick Xenophon is a mouth piece of ASC and will say anything to gain a contract even though they just blew the roof in constructing their new AAW destroyers that would cost 3 billion dollars a ship when the initial pricing was made at 2 billion.

Like the former Australian defense minister David Johnston said, I wouldn't trust the government's own shipbuilding firm to "build a canoe"

The hope is to bring a Hill's Hoist to every Japanese home.

As long as the Hoist doesn't deploy Takata Air Bags, the japanese people in those homes will be okay-

@Mocheake "I still dislike Toshiba, even now, for selling those milling machines to the USSR. Directly affected my job"

They say, various consumer goods of Toshiba are very popular in countries of the former USSR, including Russia. I see nothing bad in distribution of "made in Japan" high quality products there.

Not surprising, those subs are being torpedoed RIGHT before they fully surface, a dive is imminent.

"Another Japanese submarine captain, Toshihide Yamauchi, raised concern to the ABC about Australia’s ability to safeguard sensitive Japanese intellectual property."

You mean, like pension information? like giving away secrets to a Peruvian woman in exchange for sex to the point where she is a HUGE hero in her home nation and snubs Japan every chance she get while her former (idiot) "lover" rots in prison? like the guys who leave their briefcases in the back seats of cars in Japan? Sorry, but Japan is pretty much the worst nation on earth when it comes to leaking information.

As for the submarines, well, looks like they may have torpedoed their chances. I hope Australia turns around and chooses Germany or another nation if Japan is going to be so arrogant. I have no doubt they've already said their comments were "misunderstood".

"they are simply out of their depth,” he said.

Laugh out loud funny!

Their depth is about 500m.

It's a good submarine, as military submarines go, and they are right about the steel production issue.

Do you think it was a knowing pun on behalf of Senator Xenophobe?

I hope his foot tastes nice... what a moron.

Nick Xenophon was pro-European and he thought everything made in Europe was good. This guy knows nothing about Submarine and Japanese Navy history. Xenophon said Japanese Submarine can't go long distance as Australian Navy requirement. Honestly, ASC Pty Ltd former Australian Submarine Corporation and its workers do not have skilled to build hi tech submarine. The whole nation knew about that. Also if you build Submarine with Australian workers and then the costs and times will be double. Japan shouldn’t build hi tech Submarine in Australia. Japan should let France and Germany to build Submarine in Australia with Australian workers. I bet they will miss delivery date if they build in South Australia and at least one year late on delivery date. PM Tony Abbot, Defense Minister and Australian Navy wanted Japanese Submarine but Labor and senator like Xenophon want to build Submarine in South Australia by German or France Company because they though European technology is better than Japanese Technology.

The possibility of leaking information of Hi Tech Submarine technology to China or Russia by ASC employees is 90% if Japan has transferred Hi Tech design Submarine technology to ASC Pty Ltd former Australian Submarine Corporation. Japanese Government shouldn’t take risk by transferring hi tech Submarine technology to ASC Pty Ltd.

Also Japanese Company reputation can be damage if the Submarine was built in Australia. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/warships-cost-blows-out-to-9bn/story-e6frg8yo-1227364435942

"As for the submarines, well, looks like they may have torpedoed their chances. I hope Australia turns around and chooses Germany or another nation"

And what about Canada, that technological powerhouse? Surely Canada's subs are far better than Japan's will ever be!

So many clever people here, clearly more enlightened than the entire Australian Nation for they (and only them) know that Sweden has got better subs than the Soryu.

Sweden has got a far better sub (of which the Soryu is a mere cheap copy), yet Australia insists on getting the copy, rather than going for the real McCoy!!!

Australian military procurement needs to change as a matter of urgency.

Prior to acquiring anything better ask JT experts where to get the very best.

Peeping_Tom

Canadian subs?

Do you mean the British decommissioned Upholder class submarines that Canada bought and slapped the name Victoria-class submarines? Yeah some powerhouse indeed.

As for the Swedes, they haven't built a sub in 20 years.

Build 50% of the Subs in Australia and the other 50% in Japan. Problem solved.

As we say in the Texas Navy - "loose lips sink ships"! But then again, we're talking about submarines, are we? FYI we in the South have always been good at building submarines; a Texan named Singer designed CSS Hunley.