politics

China gives no ground to Biden in air defense zone dispute

32 Comments
By JOSH LEDERMAN

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So, according too all these anonymous American officials leaks, not once Biden demanded China to abandon it's ADIZ, something Japan said US was going do.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Well, you reap what you sow America.

When America outsourced ALL if it's manufacturing jobs to a Hostile Communist Country like China AND borrow Billions with Treasury Notes as collateral, then how far does the U.S. think they are going to twist Communist China's arm at any level being Economic or Military?

If we sanction China - We'd be sanctioning ourselves.

For now, China does not have the capabilities to enforce the Zone because they have no Air Refueling Capabilities for their Fighter Aircraft...for now.

I fear the worst may happen one day when Communist China really gets real nasty and the despite our treaty with Japan, we may have to ask Japan to give up the rocks just to save our economy.

Such a selfish Nation America is, but reality is reality and All Roads Lead to Rome.

Again, you reap what you sow.

-3 ( +13 / -16 )

@Saketown,

I also agree that the U.S. foreign policy has been dozing off at the wheel. However, considering China’s fearsome leverage, outsize resources, strategic goals, geopolitical chauvinism, quasi-fascist nationalism, Communist autocracy, and ideological lunacy, it is difficult to see how the U.S. can stave off military confrontation between China and its allies for any length of time. The U.S.’s economic relationship with China and the region is too important to be jeopardised over Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

However, you do realize that this Chinese “zone” includes basically all of the East China Sea, and not just the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands? So in your opinion, the U.S. should just surrender to the Chinese claims, and suspend all naval/air operations in this zone unless the Chinese give their permission, or not? But this is what this boils down to is to displace the U.S. and its Allies from the East China sea and allow China unchecked military operations near Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

What is Japan’s strategic goal? Have a good relationship with China and resolve the dispute in a peaceful way as defined in the friendship treaty with China so that both countries can fully benefit from cooperation, or contain China and diminish China’s role in the world affair? If Japan chooses the latter, what the cost would Japan prepare to pay? Presumably, Japan may think that she has technology advantages over China and can afford a war with China in Northeast Asia, or even in Southeast Asia. Japan thinks that she can keep that advantages forever and even expect China collapse by herself.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

saketown, I can't find a thing in your postthat I can agree with. The entire world helped China get out of the stone age to where they are today, all based on the trust in China's declared "peaceful rise" and the mistaken belief that the increased wealth of the average Chinese would create a large middle class that would force the CCP to adopt more democratic ideals and practices. We were clearly wrong on both counts. However, China's rise is no longer seen as "peaceful" and their economy has past it's peak. Those US debt instruments mean nothing as leverage as we can seize and freeze them the moment China starts a conflict. China does not "own" the United States, nor is the U.S. economy (or the world's for that matter) entirely dependent on China. China will never come out and agree with anything the U.S. advances publically, but the real test is whether they will enforce their ADIZ regulations as declared. This is 2013 and far too late in the game for Empire building. The entire word will not allow it.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

dont be busy body please, American.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

As China said this is, in the beginning at least, a psychological war specifically against the US the only real power who can actually stop China in its imperialistic tracks.

China has come to believe by the Obama administrations Neville Chamberlin tactic of 'Diplomacy at any cost is the only way to resolve conflict' that Obama will not act decisively. China is right as with Britain it will take a change of leadership.

Obama was and is so intent on not starting war in his tenure, as withNeville Chamberlin with WWII, he along with the cultural relativists in the US State Department have actually enabled the real potential for WWIII to come into being.

As Xi said “The world, as a whole, is not tranquil,”.

Obama and the US State Department think a good old family chat will resolve the situation – reason of course will prevail – such fools should never be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.

All I can say is the US had better find out where every Chinese submarine is and nullify them.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The clip of his speech was just excrutiatingly bad. Challenge everything? Obama and he have really turned out to be a low point in US politics and diplomacy.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

How do you contain and control China and stop their thirst for more? Biden's move to persuade China to hold back by pointing guns and flying B-52's over their declared space seems to not be working as planned. What we need is to diplomatically allow China to grow while contractually making sure that they don't impede on their neighboring countries' space. A negotiation is supposed to be about give and take, not just take because one party has bigger guns.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I wouldn't be to sure that this will work out the Chinese plan it to. On top of that, at least in theory , this could lead to a military, diplomatic and or coup of sorts that will lead to eventual true and very significant national reform on all spectrums of governmental rule. When Japan, South Korea, and America do not recognize China's zone and in fact become more in alignment on the matter, the Chinese will see that there really is no monkey in which to 'kill to scare the tiger' but instead a 400lbs. Gorilla, that will not be intimidated or eliminated, in fact will make a pact with the tiger and will defeat them if they persist; but more probable is that, diplomatically they will be compromised long before it comes to that. In theory. Peace on the seven seas.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The U.S. has no business bothering China over a territorial spat started by the Japanese. Minus the politics, this is clear to all countries around the world. It is also very clear that Japan is arrogant to the extent that they changed history and refused to admit their war crimes and repent for them. This insistence and stubbornness and their forceful annexation of the Diiaoyu Islands owned by China is not going away until they are returned to China and japan confess for all its sins.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So, according too all these anonymous American officials leaks, not once Biden demanded China to abandon it's ADIZ, something Japan said US was going do.

Only the incredibly naive thought that. And i can see how the communists (and their sympathizers) would like to say that America was going to "demand" this or that. The rest of us who live in the real world never thought that for a moment. Much easier ways of making PRC pay than by "demanding" something that they will never do. The little line the communists drew is there to stay. The real question is who's going to recognize the line, and what is that little act of bravado going to cost the commies in the long run.

saketown, I can't find a thing in your postthat I can agree with.

Really? Not even the bit about how America is partly to blame for allowing US companies to outsource all their manufacturing jobs to a place with no worker's rights (or human rights for that matter)? North American manufacturing is basically non-existent. Commies economy improves. US economy tailspins and unemployment rises. I may not agree with all of saketown's post but s/he nailed it when commenting that America needs to take a look at the part they played in raising this disgusting behemoth. And they did it for corporate profits. So Apple shareholders could see a better return. Its disgusting.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

“I hope you learn that innovation can only occur where you can breathe free, challenge the government, challenge religious leaders.” Biden said."

Uncle Joe cracking a joke. Any actual protesters in US are relegated to the tiny "free speech" zones which closely resemble corrals for livestock and are always far from the actual venue. A good example was that of the 50th anniversary of JFK at Dealey Plaza.

China won't back down. Fools.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Irrational behavior from the CCP here...in spite of CCP trolls ranting for a pittance on every English speaking news websites.

At best, China is facing yet another status quo.

At worst, it is forcing its neighbors to consider banding together to start protect themselves.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Biden didn't ask. China didn't give. Why ruin the atmosphere? Life goes on as usual.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

At worst, it is forcing its neighbors to consider banding together to start protect themselves.

For neighbors, Japan ADIZ is five times larger than Montana state of US. It has been overlapping neighbors zone before China extended in 2013. Therefore Japan is not the Saint either.

Japan was the first to extend her ADIZ further and further unilaterally into East China Sea despite the protest from Taiwan and South Korea back in 2010. It was not the first time either. When Japan had no concern about the others discomfort and inconvenience , there were no media interest like now.

Japan ADIZ has already overlapped both neighbors. Therefore it is hypocrite for Japan is crying as baby for PRC action in 2013. Sound like "Do as I told you. Not as I did."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirDefenseIdentificationZone(EastChinaSea)

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

In 2010 the Japanese ADIZ was extended to cover the whole of Yonaguni Island and only 'overlapped' the Taiwan ADIZ because that cut right through Yonaguni - an undisputed part of Japan. Hardly a parallel with China's latest folly.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Joe Biden?

Duh, no wonder Chinese officials give no ground.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

As China said this is, in the beginning at least, a psychological war specifically against the US the only real power who can actually stop China in its imperialistic tracks.

It's only psychological war if people in the US actually cared about this issue. They don't. The barely made news in the US when it broke and has more or less disappeared from the US news cycle.

Is the US going to strong arm China? No. They hold too many US Treasury bonds. Does that mean China would flood the market with them? Not really, the US is the biggest consumer of Chinese goods. Tanking the US economy also tanks the Chinese economy. Neither side can do more than make minor moves. Fiscally speaking the US and China are in a position of mutually assured destruction.

The main problem I see here I don't see an end game for China.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This kind of crap should make things INTERESTING again on Okinawa.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Its becoming clearer by the day that creating the monster that China is today has been a mistake, now that its more & more likely that China will have to be contained, de-fanged its going to get ugly at times, perhaps massively so.

Wont be pretty no matter what roads are taken here on

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Dictator and single monopoly party of Communist China uses harassing tactics against neighbors as described by Sun Tsu in the "art of war". Today Japan, soon S.Korea, next Philippine, Vietnam...with the intent to weaken the opposition and looking for final blow if opportunity provided. To those who believe in mutual cooperation with communist China, let's say Tibet anyone! China strips basic human rights from its own people, and now is trying to power grab more territories for itself; unilaterally. Japan and the rest of the world must not put the guards down against this bully. Now is the time for Japan to built a strong deterrence capability and stop being too naive of China's intent.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan should call China's bluff and issue the same requirements for its zone - all aircraft entering need to notify Japan in advance. See what the paper tiger Chinese do then.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The situation is totally expectable and understandable from the beginning. Every country, definitely including the US, shall do whatever best conform to profit of itself. Leaders today are just like business salesmen of their country, so how can we request the US to do so much? wake up! guys~ Abe admin should be responsible for what they did instead of relying on others, also, your neighbors are worrying about being dragged into chaos you caused.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

American leadership dangerously kowtow to Chinese whims and caprices, consequently emboldened the Chinese communist state to further push through with their hegemonic control and expansion in the large area of East Asia.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Japan has already extended twice of her ADIZ. According 2010 map the boundary is almost touching North Korea and Taiwan. Both nations have tolerated Japan extension. without noise and confrontation. Japan should tolerate and ike them. If it can extend unilaterally without other consent, it should be expected others to follow her lead.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/images/map-japan-adiz-1.jpg

0 ( +3 / -3 )

China is overreaching by demanding too much of international flight operations, and if there's an accident resulting from misunderstanding over that area of international airspace, that blood is in their hands.

Even Taiwan is now becoming wary of China's self-declared ADZ because if China could do so at it pleases on the East China Sea, what's to stop China from doing the same on the South China Sea, where Taiwan controls some islands that China wants to claim control.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

OssanAmerica *saketown, I can't find a thing in your post that I can agree with. The entire world helped China get out of the stone age to where they are today,** You need to get your head out of your proverbial. The Chinese were manufacturing before America was on the map. They put themselves where they are today through what we call smarts and a strong resolve. Dare you look back at America's history. It is always those that are quickest to point the finger that are most often the worst offenders themselves. Japan has taken no steps to get involved in dialogue with China to resolve the issue. Instead they are working hard to stir as much trouble as possible. I haven't seen one post from you that gives a balanced, unbiased point of view. And as for your comment: China does not "own" the United States, nor is the U.S. economy (or the world's for that matter) entirely dependent on China. Neither does the US own China, and the world is no longer dependent on the US economy. Welcome to 2013. So lets see what one eyed propaganda you can come up with as a response.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

'Biden told Chinese youngsters... that American children are rewarded rather than punished for challenging the status quo.' -AP

I like what V.P. Biden is arguing for which is constitutional. Yet from my personal experience, the way it actually works is that you can express your ideas all you like, but if they have too much influence and some strata of politicians does not like it, then some part of the government goes homicidal. If they go for a kill but only wound you, then they data rape you behind your back and oppress your life with a special glass ceiling hand crafted in the U.S.A. Still, the U.S. has a stronger stance on freedom of the individual than China, and I think that they will continue to improve their stance because they must know the economic worth of freely circulating ideas in a well educated populace and its worth to human rights too.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I have just witnessed the Vice President of the United States being treated like a naughty student in the seats with all the other students being talked down to by the headmaster President of the People's Republic of China Xi Jinping.

Anyone who doubts the loss of US power under Neville Chamberlain Obama and the cultural relativist US State Department just needs to watch the video of this humiliation.

If I was the United States I would be finding out where all those submarine captains are now who the Chinese elite recently publically praised for being so diligent.

This is not going to end well.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China is not a world power - that don't have what it takes.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The Chinese were manufacturing before America was on the map.

We aren't talking about terracotta figures here sir. We are talking about products that the rest of the world is interested in purchasing. Everything that PRC manufacturing is today (and lets face it, its not much) they owe to being shown how to do it by the Americans, the Europeans and the Japanese. If the West had not been so greedy for cheap (slave) labor, PRC would be nowhere with their economy.

They put themselves where they are today through what we call smarts and a strong resolve.

I'd laugh, but I think you are actually serious. They put themselves where they are today because:

they have an unlimited supply of people willing to work for $5 a day. If one worker gets sick or dies, just shovel their corpse to the side and slide in the next slave.

they have no qualms whatsoever about stealing intellectual properties and violating patents and copyrights. If anyone complains, tell them you invented gunpowder and didn't get any royalties off that.

they have no need to conform to even the most basic of environmental standards. If one area gets so polluted that the slaves are dying in their cages, just pick up and move fifty miles upstream. Start polluting process over again.
0 ( +0 / -0 )

hidingout DEC. 06, 2013 - 08:50AM JST

We aren't talking about terracotta figures here sir

According Marco polo, ancient Chinese products such as silk, tea, china wares, spices and gun powder are high demand from silk road merchants. It was during his voyage long time ago before the July 4th of 1776.

Everything that PRC manufacturing is today (and lets face it, its not much) they owe to being shown how to do it by the Americans, the Europeans and the Japanese.

The point is PRC does not point the gun to those multi nationals for going and making products there. The language of business is profit. Not about nationalism. Union thugs from Detroit has changed boom town as ghost town.

If the West had not been so greedy for cheap (slave) labor, PRC would be nowhere with their economy.

PRC labors are no longer cheap in 2013. However Multi- nationals still competing the market share there. The main reason is not only about low wages but also they want to establish them self for getting slice of 1.3 billion consumers. Which nation has such huge population and land mass?

PRC adopted western technology. However their strength is manufacturing with efficiency from chain supplies. It has cut down the cost of manufacturing and more profitable.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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