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Biden says China must take steps to reduce tension in region

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aussie-musashiDec. 12, 2013 - 02:00PM JST If you read the link I posted above, youd have a more balanced view of the situation. All China is demanding is Japan acknowledge the existence of a dispute.

And Hitler claimed that all the territory Germany ceded after WWI should have been returned.

China is demanding territories that it lost during a war it started and lost, yes 1895 wasn't a good year for it. But the PRC wasn't around in1895.

BTW, I forgot to ask, what year is it now?

Next, where were the PRC's objections to the 51' San Francisco Treaty?? Oh, wait that's right there were none when it came to Senkaku until natural resources discovered just before 71'.

Hell after 71' Senkaku islands were draped in a PRC flag and tears were shed like someone really gave a heck before natural resources were found.

The only thing that the PRC wants is what is under those rocks because it's nation is starving for natural resources.

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If you read the link I posted above, youd have a more balanced view of the situation. All China is demanding is Japan acknowledge the existence of a dispute. Japan refuses and then goes boohoo to the US when China imposes an ADIZ. Yes, I know about the lack of democracy in China and its poor human rights record. That is not the issue: what is - is finding a solution for Japan and China to the Senkaku / Diaoyu islands dispute, because its not going away

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The Qing Dynasty had the same goals as the modern PRC both are molded with the same imperialistic dreams. But we all know what happened to the vaulted Qing Navy, history is a wicked teacher.

Imagine Spain demanding Puerto Rio and Guam to be returned to it because it owned and lost it during the Spanish American war, how far do you think that claim would go?

This is the same argument and with the same value.

Love the names these PRC paid posters are now using. They show themselves in their names and in the TPM.

Brainwashing is a great thing until the bombs start dropping.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Really? http://japanfocus.org/-Craig-Martin/2434 The Case Against “Revising Interpretations” of the Japanese Constitution - See more at: http://japanfocus.org/-Craig-Martin/2434#sthash.35HzjfKN.dpuf

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I think I feel the same as most Japanese people when I say that it is time for Japan to become a militarised country again. It will prove positive in many ways especially the economy if Japan start selling weapons...

-2 ( +1 / -2 )

Time for Japan to meet China halfway on this. Compromise is the order of the day

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Japan and then the USA will defend these islands. It is not the islands but the principle of letting the Peoples Republic of China steal part of Japan. The Americans do not need atomic weapons to beat them. I am pretty sure how it will be done but remain quiet. Claiming our airspace and backing it up is a declaration of war. So in a sense we have already been attacked.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I see some Chinese applogists are still trying to create a fog of propaganda. FW360 among them.

No Japan did NOT cause the current crisis, it is China and China alone. Yes other countries have air defense zones OVER THEIR OWN TERRITORY. the Senkakus are Japanese. They are OWNED by Japan. Period. China was not offered the islands for sale, Japan was and bought them.

So they are the legal owners. To back away and to allow China to grab them just because they want more territory and the resources around the islands and to allow China to keep going on a Pacific region wide effort to bully and intimidate its neighbors, every one of them, would be foolish to a huge degree. The World did nothing about China's invasion and conquest of Tibet and still to this day allows China to act injured and aggrieved when people ask about the human rights of Tibetans. Japan must be strong and stand up to this and not back away.

Modern China is a dictatorship of the absolute kind and has nothing in common with the enlightened western demoacracies that respect individual rights and freedom. There is NO reason for the US to have ties to China other than mutual respect of neighbors.

Soverignty is a matter of fact in the present, not the past. The China of 1900 is not the China of today. nor is the Austro Hungary of 1900 the Austria of Today, the British Empire of 1900 Britian and the few remaining commonwealth nations of today. So the issue now is what Japan must do to stand up to an aggressive neighbor. They would have to do the same thing if it were North Korea, Thailand, Viet Nam or anyone ..not just if it is China. But China appears to be in trouble internally to be flexing its military so much ..there is no need, they can get the resources and have plenty of land already. I think the regiem is in trouble as more and more Chinese people, oridinary citizens get more educated and modern and gain access to the rest of the world. The censorship of the internet is a joke in China and they can and do read the news and reach out to the world all the time, i know that for a fact. So they are threatening the ruling elite with an increasing desire for more internal freedom and the dictators at the top, the tiny ruling elite are using the tried and true...enemy outside our country ploy to gain support and to avoid facing internal issues and pressures and to try to hang onto power.

Change is coming for them. And Japan will stand strong. I am very glad to see far more wise and reasonable and observant posts than the few supporting China continue to be made. The funny war of the approval button, the -1 and the +1 is fun to watch and to guess who is trying to create a bias. Democracy of the click. :)

Thanks Japan Today for the best coverage of this issue anywhere.

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The notion that the US should build closer military ties with China is tantamount to the US building closer military ties to Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan in the 1930s. Or with the USSR in the 50s and 60s. It's a pretty laughable concept.

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sfjp330

By jurisdictional records both before 1895 and after 1895, the islands were under Taiwan’s jurisdiction due to closeness and convenience.

I've never heard this mentioned before within the context of this argument, and if true, it's an interesting detail. Do you have a link, please? I'd like to have a look.

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J.basher Dec. 07, 2013 - 12:54AM JST The United States must build stronger military-to-military ties with China

There’s certainly something to this argument, at the very least ensure mistrust will be a permanent feature of the bilateral relationship. The cooperation between U.S. and China fails to tell us how temporary the Sino-U.S. relationship truly is.

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Why dosn't USA not just shut up and let China and the rest of East Asia do their business? The US knows they are a falling empire, so they are trying to stick their business somewhere they are trying to get some attention in. Nobody listens to USA properly these days, even Japan knows too but they're only sticking with them for protection from China.

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@Tiger the human nature is an aggressive one . China wants blood! It's not my fault when people die in China. So the lesser evil is to keep it there. Besides, you want to tell me about death and loss? You've found the right person! I have profound experience!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Every Chinese in China supports the new ADIZ. Even those who have total disgust of the CCP! So it is good for Japan and the US to keep up with their hypocrisy. This will truly work in China's favor. There is no such thing as you can create your ADIZ and others cannot! This is not an air zone to keep others out. It is just an identification zone.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Both japan and the US invited the Chinese to have a sit down and discuss the issue of these island, the Chinese refused, they could have addressed the whole issue right there at the sit down but walked away ignorantly spouting off its hateful propaganda.

This should tell you bucket loads about what is really going on here. All it is is a small part of a giant attempted Land Grab for resources. Hell it wouldnt surprise me that the Chinese think Australia is part of china too, because its full of resources the hungry Chinese want.

The Chinese and china lack basic social skills as any one who has encountered Chinese tourists will know, they push into the front of lines, they spit on the ground where people are walking, they jabber on loudly and think its all about them, why would you think the nation on an international scale would behave any differently.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

China never demanded that Japan gave up the admin right on the island. China wanted Japan to recognize there is dispute over its sovereignty. But since Abe declared the island Japanese territory, China is faced with either to accept that or to challenge that. They chose the latter. Now both countries demand sovereignty.

You guys need to keep cool. Otherwise you can't see things clearly. Then there will be no good outcome, only conflict.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I still stand by position that China bit off more than it can chew. The US has given the dictatorship a way of saving face before it's nationalist hordes by holding on to their self declared ADIZ. But the US has not only told China to make it ineffective by not enforcing it, but in fact are making it ineffective by not recognizing it. The result being that US, Japanese and South Korean military flights are not being challenged by Chinese fighters. And this makes China's attempt to implement their ADIZ a failure. However, China has inadvertently accomplished other goals, such as turning global support decisively towards Japan and furthering the global view that China can not be trusted as a responsible member of the international community. It also hardens U.S. resolve towards preventing further Chinese expansionism in Asia. Long winded Chinese propaganda disguised as "objective analysis" expose themselves when they inevitably conclude in speculations of the demise of American strategic dominance in the region. Sorry but that ain't going to happen. The evolutionary path of human societies is for democracy and individual freedoms, not totalitarianism and censorship. Just as certain religions are outdated for the 21st century, the CCP dictatorship is outdated for the 21st century and such a regime possessing the largest military in the region and being on a territorial expansion agenda poses a threat to the entire world.

r

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EthanWilber Dec. 06, 2013 - 08:35AM JST Japan, China and South Korea may be able to figure out their ways to deal with their differences peacefully in an adult like manner.

They did for many decades after 70's. The very problem lies in the way Japanese people view China and the way China issues are portrayed in the Japanese media. This raises the question whether the public opinion in Japan really reflects what people think on relations with China. The negative sentiments in China toward Japan will continue to be a major risk factor for Japanese firms doing business in the country. Still, most of the major companies continue to need the Chinese market and go to China to compete, and if Japanese firms hesitate in doing business in China because of those risks, they could be losing in the global competition. China’s aggressive military buildup may in fact be a reflection of its internal fragility.

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The timing and audiences of Biden’s speech is a bit intriguing, it sounds like he was talking to the Americans and allies at home and abroad. It may also indicate Biden’s arguments on the controversial ADIZ presented during his meetings with his rapport and other Chinese officials did not go as he had expected. For people who heard little about Biden, he is a career politician and an experienced and skilled negotiator who has made very good deals out of many thorny situations across the isles in the US Congress..

One thing is certain that Biden’s opponent must be very tough and passionate to defend his core interests the same way as Biden normally does himself.

What a shame! Biden’s original missions aimed primarily on increasing trades and improving diplomatic relationships , unfortunately he accomplished neither.

In short term, the US may have to take a step back to retool and refine its foreign policy in the Far East, Putting it in a longer frame of lens, I am afraid that this polarized incident might mark the end of beginning of American security free-ride which has been provided by the US and benefited by its allies in this particular region for 70 years. It's just matter of time, the Chinese regime will flex its mallirty might in its ADIZ even though the US hopes such time would be postponed as late as possible.

But, looking on the bright side, it may have some silver inning hidden in this complicated event and following sequences, once the US starts reducing its intervention ( it may take a while for the US to get to that juncture), Japan, China and South Korea may be able to figure out their ways to deal with their differences peacefully in an adult like manner.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

rsgz4gg7y2 Dec. 06, 2013 - 08:27AM JSTJapan doesn't need to give up admin right. China never asked it either.

China never asked either? Where have you been? They are claiming the islands. Here is Hong Li, China's Foreign Ministry reponse of Senkaku/Daioyu Islands "The Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islands have been integral parts of China's territory since ancient times. It is fully reasonable and justifiable for China's ADIZ in the East China Sea to cover this area. The Japanese side has no right to make irresponsible remarks."

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Japan doesn't need to give up admin right. China never asked it either. The issue for Japan is that Abe has declared the island to be not just in its admin, but in fact its territory. This is a higher ladder to climb down from. That's his challenge. So long he insists the island is Japanese territory, the Chinese won't back down.

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rsgz4gg7y2 Dec. 06, 2013 - 08:12AM JST So it pretty much blowing over. China will have its ADIZ, but will not enforce it too hard, for US's sake.

So it pretty much blowing over? The real problem is that Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands that Japan has adminstrative rights is in the part of China's new ADIZ. I doubt that Japan will give up that easily without further military confrontation.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Biden's trip was planned long ago, and was focused on getting Xi to explain China's new directions about the recent party congress, and to establish some understanding. The ADIZ issue is an expected disruption. Biden has to address it but it's not the main purpose of the trip, which was decided long ago. Japanese papers' report only focus on the ADIZ issue for Bidden. This is incorrect.

As the ADIZ problem, Bidden has two grievances. First is that China did this unilaterally, without consulting the US first. The US slapped China by sending 2 B-52s, symbolic war planes. They were type of the planes that that won the last war (carpet bombing and nuclear bombs.) And it permitted Japan to rape the ADIZ repeatedly by flying warplanes in and out of it at will.So the initial anger subsided mostly. The other thing is that Bidden picked up an obligation when he passed by Japan. He had to bring it up on Japan's behalf. This is just to make Japan feel better. And of course, warning China to talk first before doing another ADIZ in the south.

So it pretty much blowing over. China will have its ADIZ, but will not enforce it too hard, for US's sake. Back to discussions about economy, currency, cyber, North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

sfjp330Dec. 06, 2013 - 07:02AM JST If Japan has undisputeable ownership, why did China and Japan agreed to jointly develop gas deposits in the East China Sea near Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands in 2008? They didn't need to ask China. The fields are located near the median line between the two nations' territorial waters.

First off it was an agreement in principle only, it was never agreed upon. China called off the talks when it saw an opportunity to take advantage of the purchase of the islands by the DPJ controlled government.

BTW that agreement wasn't going to cover any territory anywhere near the islands. It covered an area far off those islands.

So another mote point, what's next?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tamarama,

You remember that when Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895, it was also with “affiliated islands," and did not specifically name those islands. By jurisdictional records both before 1895 and after 1895, the islands were under Taiwan’s jurisdiction due to closeness and convenience. So the ROC thought and expected to have the islands back by 1945 in pursuance to the instrument of surrender. Japan effectively seperated the islands from Taiwan without the consent of China, and gave them to the US to administer under a trusteeship in 1951. This is the big problem to be unentangled now, as you see. I think the reason why China accuses Japan of stealing the islands from Taiwan and China, it was during a cold war with the Soviet that the U.S. “returned” the islands to japan in exchange for something. China does not recognize the San Francisco treaty in 1951, and the physical return of the islands in 1972. There was no mention of the name of Senkaku islands were found in the Treaty of San Francisco. It was in 1953, the civil authority in Okinawa, through internal law, expanded Okinawa to include the Senkaku islands, which is certainly a probleml under international law.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

sfjp330

If U.S. was so sure that Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands belong to Japan, why didn't U.S. gave only adminstrative rights and no soverignty in 1972?

Conversely, if they were certain they weren't Japanese, why didn't they just give control of them to China?

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JoeBigsDec. 06, 2013 - 06:30AM JST The US didn't have a crystal ball and if you remember correctly the PRC didn't give one hoot about the islands in 1951. And making claims with zero facts/proof to back it up is just plain silly.

If Japan has undisputeable ownership, why did China and Japan agreed to jointly develop gas deposits in the East China Sea near Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands in 2008? They didn't need to ask China. The fields are located near the median line between the two nations' territorial waters.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

China's government doesn't get it. They never will. They can send their propaganda parties all over the worlds internet but the other 4.8 billion people on the planet aren't going to believe China's actions are focused on "settling" a grudge that occurred well before the CCP was even founded. Pres Xi complained that the UK was taking Japan's side (gosh I wonder why...) and Australia was taking Japan's side (hmmm, makes you think), and the US for obvious reasons was taking Japan's side (there is a treaty to uphold)

This isn't the 1800s this isn't the 1950s heck this isn't even the 1200s... this is 2013 China. Colonialism and making wars to conquer land for "a greater empire" was left over decades ago. Too many countries are p'oed at China for infringing on their maritime zones to count on one hand. Japan and South Korea won't budge, and Vietnam sure as hell won't. While China's big focus is on Japan for what someone's great grandfather did to someone elses greatgrandparents, does not legitimize taking out "vengeance" on those who are innocent of the acts of someone else.

As long as China keeps believing the way they are, the Tibetans have a right to get vengeance on China, the Vietnamese have the right to get vengeance on China, Mongolia has a right to get vengeance on China, even the Chinese have the right to get vengeance on the Chinese! As the saying goes, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone..."

China had better think really hard about that and their constant focus on getting "revenge" on Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It added that “it would be a nightmare” if the U.S. and China were to “actively confront each other”.

Interesting comment by the Chinese media.

It can be interpreted two ways.

It also shows that Japan is in China's sights.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sfjp330Dec. 06, 2013 - 06:09AM JST If U.S. was so sure that Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands belong to Japan, why didn't U.S. gave only adminstrative rights and no soverignty in 1972? Maybe U.S. already knew the future problems.

The US didn't have a crystal ball and if you remember correctly the PRC didn't give one hoot about the islands in 1951.

And making claims with zero facts/proof to back it up is just plain silly. What's next, the US knew that buying Alaska would be a windfall move because one day the world would have cars and Alaska has oil?

Blaming the US for what the PRC's wrongs doesn't make the PRC position any better, it just make you sound desperate to make a point.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I think I'd like to comment on fw360's comment (also including some others):

Basically what you try to say in your post is that China did everything like other countries do and Japan is the aggressor.

Let's see, so ADIZes are unilaterally. Well, in some way they are, nevertheless when the US started dealing around with ADIZes, apparently they got into broad consultations with neighboring countries. Also it apparently was taken care, ADIZes did not overlap. Also apparently those US ADIZes basically applies only to commercial airplanes and even lets them fly through without notice when not entering sovereign airspace. If I'm not wrong, the Chinese ADIZ applies to all and everything flying there.

You see, already the Chinese ADIZ is somehow different from others. Let's continue:

Also, you try to make the overlapping of the Chinese ADIZ with others seem normal as Japan also did the same thing, as you mention by Japan expanding its ADIZ twice. True, but why. Important piece you don't explain: Basically Japan inheritet its ADIZ by the US after the war, it was expanded once, when the Okinawa-Ryūkyū islands came home to Japan and once more a tiny bit around the westernmost Japanese island to cover its own territory by the international agreed 12 miles zone plus a neglectible 2miles buffer zone. Taiwan, which was affected by this latter move, regretted this happening but somewhat accepted it since it was Japanese territory and its 12 miles zone to be covered.

You seem to have ties to the UN since you know those guys are laughing there, maybe you can get me more details on this topic - as I mentioned, I'm informed but not perfect in the history details.

The fun part with the Chinese ADIZ now is, that if a plane does not comply to the Chinese orders in the international airspace, military action might be taken in that declared ADIZ zone. Now unfortunately that zone covers the Senkakus, which are for more than a hundred years internationally accepted Japanese territory and therefore come along with sovereign Japanese airspace - in which China intends to use military force if their Chinese rules are not followed.

Could become somehow troublesome…

The finally mentioned "nationalization" of the islands was, again only to my knowledge, to prevent right wing groups of becoming the owner of the islands and start rising their flag there, if not more. In that way, the Japanese government tried to keep away from escalation.

The biggest (if not for many decades also the only) move of changing the status quo in that area was the establishment of the Chinese ADIZ with their rules and coordinates.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

JoeBigs Dec. 06, 2013 - 05:52AM JST And prior to 1971 the PRC didn't give a hoot about the Senkaku Islands, hell I don't think a single drab uniformed party member knew what those islands even were.

If U.S. was so sure that Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands belong to Japan, why didn't U.S. gave only adminstrative rights and no soverignty in 1972? Maybe U.S. already knew the future problems.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I just love the way folks claim that the islands have always been their concern, but during the 51 treaty the PRC didn't mention them one bit.

And prior to 1971 the PRC didn't give a hoot about the Senkaku Islands, hell I don't think a single drab uniformed party member knew what those islands even were.

But, when natural resources were discovered, well BINGO! The islands were draped in the flag, the propaganda machine started churning and tears began flowing.

Today with the PRCs need for resources at a fever pitch they have to grab whatever they can, because if they don't they would collapse.

Civil war is looming and when it does come it will come with a bang. What that bang is no one knows. Might well be their vaulted navy becoming a new reef. Or some crazy general ordering an attack. But, when it comes the companies that are still there will pay the price.

No wonder more factories are leaving the PRC than being built.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Saketwon,

Did Japan consult China, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. when it set up its own ADIZ in 1969? It is still international air space. Anyone is free to enter this zone, just that the country politely ask you to inform them when you are entering the zone? Except in the case of Japan, it didn't "politely ask" but use force, electronic interference, etc. to harass Taiwan's civilian flights, close to 40 times since 2009? So why no mention of such act by Japan?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@sfjp330

I don't care if China wants to Zone Off the entire planet.

It's how they're going to enforce that Zoning Agenda that worries me.

This goes back to my question: Why does China need an Aircraft Carrier?

Certainly not to promote Freedom and Democracy as our Aircraft Carriers do.

I'll tell you what Communist China plans to do by declaring ADIZ''s: They plan to "Communize" their Maoist Ideology into the 4 Corners of Asia, The Pacific Ocean, The Indian Ocean, The Persian Gulf, The Red Sea, and The Mediterranean Sea. That's their 20 Year advanced plan.

Yea, we got a lot of business locked up in China. It sucks, but thats the Red Herring created by Wall Street and our Governments Deregulation of Wall Street and Corporate America. They're going to have to sooner or later deal with the anarchy that will roll out due to their neglegance and discard of the American People.

Hopefully, Japan can hold out on Goliath until Australia sends help otherwise Japan will be overwhelmed.

And don't expect South Korea to help Japan and that is really unfortunate for South Korea unless they feel the need to preserve their own Democracy and join the coalition to resist The Communist takeover.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Saketown Dec. 06, 2013 - 03:24AM JST Why did you establish this ADIZ without consulting the Imternational Community first, and especially requiring flights to give their flight plans before they enter the Zone? That is not normal for any ADIZ anywhere in the world, so why did your country establish this Zone?

Huh? What does it matter? The only country that China is concerned about is U.S. interference. As you notice, U.S. appears to have given China the green light to go forward, albeit unintentionally it seems. Look for China next year to declare an ADIZ over most of the South China Sea. China will also create such a zone in the Yellow Sea as well at some point in the near future. What can Philippines, Taiwan, or Vietnam can do? If U.S. is going to do nothing about it, these countries cannot do anything. U.S. is more concerned about the economic relationship with China, and the protection of U.S. investments in China.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Everyone, stay alert that a bunch of communists are posting propagandas here and wasting their times. Do not get sucked in. Read all posts with caution. What they write here are far from the truth.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@ Jay Hoffman

Hey Jay, I'm not sure who your aiming at, but I certainly agree with you on your comment.

China started all this mess by harassing the Japanese Coast Guard that have been patrolling the Senkakku Islands since the 1960's when China decided not to accept islands when proposed to them, therefore, they surrendered them - and only now that valuable resources have been discovered in that area, they suddenly want them.

Back to Topic: Why didn't The Vice President look at Xi Jinpeng square in his face during the meeting with the International Press and say:

Why did you establish this ADIZ without consulting the Imternational Community first, and especially requiring flights to give their flight plans before they enter the Zone? That is not normal for any ADIZ anywhere in the world, so why did your country establish this Zone?

Why are you sending Ships and Planes into the 12 Nautical Mile Economic Zone around the Senkakku Islands that are under Japan's Administrative Controlled Territory?

Are you clearly aware that The United States has a Treaty with Japan and we are obligated to enforce that Treaty?

Finally, he should reiterated: Why does China need an Aircraft Carrier? And why is China planning to build and launch another Aircraft Carrier?

The Vice President just showed up, stated the obvious, and left without any solutions for the international community and no ultimatums towards China.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Utter rubbish china had been sailing fishing boats and other patrol boats into his area prior to that, do you not recall Japanese coast guard boats being rammed by Chinese fishing boats?**<>

Get your facts straight, "fishing boats", yes, but no "other patrol boats" have been sailing in the dispute area before all the shxt hit the fan, can you back up your assertion with facts?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The thing that is worrying the International Community is China's position at trying to draw Japan into a One On One conflict with Japan.

As stated in this article, it would be a nightmare for China to go One On One with the U.S. because they know they would get slapped down fast.

BUT, little Japan is their targetted enemy.

I'm talking about David vs Goliath if All Out War breaks out between China & Japan.

What (Goliath) China fails to realize is that little (David) Japan's Military technology is 15 Years more advanced.

Small in numbers (like Davids Sling Shot) but one good precise "Hit" will send (Goliath) China tumbling down.

I'm going to take the "Let's Wait and See" approach to all this...

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

There was a report of an official China map drawn after the Mao's bloody revolution (millions killed) that stated of Senkaku islands are not part of China's territory. Can China shows it to its own control mass? Multilateral is the way to reduce the tension in the region that communist China has not used to as they have been controlled and manipulated the mass ever since.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Communist China's sympathizers spin around depending on the here say to sheep clothed the bad panda bear. Most countries have ADZ within international boundary and never demand such as China, especially in case of overlapping the disputed zone. Most of world's opinion is not supporting the Tibet's cultural genocide (China) as claimed. Most all these territorial conflicts should be resolved multilaterally, not forcing bilateral and acting unilateral as China does. Be clear, China asserts its aggressive policy for its own agenda and benefit. For sure, neither Japan nor other country will attack China unless being attack by China. Many has learned historical lesson and moved on, except some who use the grievances to their advantages. Japan has behaved accordingly in the last 60 years after WWII, for now is being pushed to stand up for her own survival. Japan hesitates to declare the new ADZ in similar fashion to China, because the world has outright rejected this cheap nonsensical bully tactic.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

So, with all and done, the US didn't demand China to abandon it's newly established ADIZ, as Japan said US would do.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Well there are many angles put to use in order to understand this move by China. For my part one is enough. Why did China start up this ADIZ now? Of course it is a game of increasing the stakes to see who backs down first and yes this move is all China. This gives Abe the legitimacy he needs to push forward on his agenda and in a rather short while China will realize that they miscalculated the game, again. The US is not going to play ball for completely different reasons than Xi can imagine. I wonder when he will learn...

0 ( +6 / -6 )

fw360: "Well, if that is true, then Japan has lost ALL its legal and moral ground to protest against PRC's ADIZ? What a hypocritical and double-standard position that Japan is taking. No wonder I heard many people in diplomatic circles in New York UN are laughing behind their backs."

Agreed. But many on here would have you believe Japan and the US have done NO wrong while it's been China 100%. China DOES need to tone things down, absolutely, but in order to do so they need cooperation, and with Abe's policies leading up to the current tensions, and his 'my way or the highway' attitude towards 'talks', it's not surprising China is being so stubborn, and Japan being so hypocritical.

How about Japan, in a show of faith, eliminate the need for the Taiwanese flights to report their paths, as you mentioned? They won't, will they?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Correction of my last post as

For Taiwan and South Korea instead of North Korea, their shore have been almost touched with boundary line of Japan.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

China just create another tension in East Asia, and the whole world see it clearly...

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Biden says China must take steps to reduce tension in region.......

The first step has been taken. The Japanese annexed China's Diaoyu Islands. To prevent further Japanese expansionism China has declared a defence identification zone. Japan has one, the U.S. has one or more? So do many other countries. But which body regulated all these ownership zones? If Japan can declare its own whether rightfully or not, what is wrong with China belatedly doing the same?

Japan Today: allow this comment if you dare.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

fw360

2) Who is the trouble-maker for the current cycle of “tic for tac” - - - Before 12-months ago, the Senkaku/Diayu area was fairly quite even with the conflicting claim of ownership for many decades… PRC’s government ships and planes never enter this region; actually PRC (and Taiwan) tried to stop their fishing boats from reaching this area. But this relatively quiet disappeared after the “nationalization” of the disputed islands about a year ago by the Japanese government… i.e. broke the status quo of this area.

Utter rubbish china had been sailing fishing boats and other patrol boats into his area prior to that, do you not recall Japanese coast guard boats being rammed by Chinese fishing boats?

2 ( +9 / -7 )

“China’s recent and sudden announcement of the establishment of a new air defense identification zone has, to state the obvious, caused significant apprehension in the region,” Biden said. “And I was very direct about our firm position and our expectations in my conversations with President Xi.”

Dear Mr. Biden You are no Pope. Please, return to your place of origin. Bon voyage.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Chineses doesn't understand that we consumers of all the nations helped them in their economic development. Now they want to make war against their own consumers and wealth? Their population doesn't understand macro economy.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Obama is swift in changing course to advise commercial planes to follow PRC declared ADIZ. The reason if not only safety issue but also understands if further precedence is set for commercial flights to fly freely in ADIZ, it will invalidate ADIZ once for all, and the biggest losers will be those countries that have the largest ADIZ in existence. Only Japan does not get it her way.

Abe has dishonored the civil Aviation rule for putting the politics ahead of passengers safety for asking J airlines for not to comply the PRC AIDZ. It is not wise for avoiding the worst case scenario.

The concept of an ADIZ was introduced by the US back in 1950. The ADIZ is an area of the airspace established by a coastal state beyond its territorial airspace to rapidly identify, monitor, control and react to potential threats from aircraft entering the zone. It is not a war zone, nor a no fly zone.

The establishment of an ADIZ is not prescribed by any international law. Typically, nations can take independent actions to draw up a zone of their own. Have US or Japan consulted anyone in establishing their own ADIZs? NO!

Many countries, including the U.S. and Japan, have ADIZs of their own. On May 10, 1972, Japan unilaterally established the Yonaguni ADIZ, covering the disputed Diaoyu Islands. In June 2010, Japan unilaterally extended the ADIZ line westwards by 22 kilometers, resulting in an overlap with the Taiwanese ADIZ. The closest distance from the western side of Japan's zone to China's mainland is just between 130 to 140 KMs. For Taiwan and North Korea, their shore have almost touched with boundary line of Japan.

If those nations can tolerate Japan ADIZ, Japan should follow their good will too. Everybody needs a good neighbor.

PRC has established its ADIZ as late comer. The one-sided "status quo" set by the U.S. and Japan is not acceptable to them. PRC's declaration of its own ADIZ is an effort to assert its sovereignty over the disputed islands, not an attempt to disturb peace in the East China Sea.

Precedence has now been set that warplanes can go in freely to any self-proclaimed ADIZs and every ADIZ exists today is self-proclaimed.

If we look at the map posted by the Guardian - the blue tint zone that Japan has claimed as its air defence identification zone and how far reach it is towards Taiwan and N Korea. It is incredibly large.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/27/japan-new-nationalism-imperialism-shinzo-abe#=

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"US does not recognize China’s move but suggested that it was key Beijing did not take any actions connected to the zone that would escalate tensions in the region."

1) US does not recognize China’s move----US and Japan's war planes will go on flying freely as they used to (without identifying themselves to Beijing). 2) Beijing did not take any actions connected to the zone that would escalate tensions in the region----Any action taken is considered a challenge.

The beginning of the end of a China Almighty Image in the eyes of its people. What a miscalculation.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Murica! Come on! If you guys gov is that good? Why NSA? China and, the World, have that and so many other reasons to not like your guys gov BS diplomacy.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The answer is: Japan side changed the status quo.

fw360

How has the status quo changed?

Japanese view: Originally Japanese sovereignty with private title, then changed to Japanese sovereignty with government title

Chinese view: Originally "Chinese sovereignty, therefore Japanese title irrelevant." Then changed to "Chinese sovereignty, any Japanese title irrelevant."

What has changed?????

1 ( +6 / -5 )

CGB Spender@ Civil war will mean the deaths of a lot of people, yes, PEOPLE, those beings that are like you and I, have feelings, emotions, needs, born from mothers and etc. Such malicious intent and unhumane comments can only come from Right Wing American ideology, no place in Japan. We are too civilised!

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@Ayesha

The answer is: Japan side changed the status quo.

I undestand Japan is explaining this action as a preventive measure against the likes of Ishihara from owning them. But this nationalization was discussed with China beforehand and they rejected that solution.

China side view this as sneady way for Tokyo to change the status quo... supposedly there was a mutual understanding, when they started diplomatic relationship decades ago, not to change it before the ownership dispute is resolved.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

fw360,

Good post!

Thank you.

Obvious to the world, Japan started the current cycle of heighten tension.

While I do not disagree with you, I wonder how much US pressure there was behind this?

Japan - particularly Abe seems to find it impossible to say "NO" to the U.S.A.

I wish it were not so.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

actually PRC (and Taiwan) tried to stop their fishing boats from reaching this area. But this relatively quiet disappeared after the “nationalization” of the disputed islands about a year ago by the Japanese government… i.e. broke the status quo of this area.

Incursion of Chinese fishing boats in territorial waters in which JCG conducted on board inspections.

2008- 1 time.

2009- ZERO times.

2010 up until the trawler incident-14 times!

There is a reason why the pervious owner wanted to sell this land because he feared that with all these increasing activity and little action from the central government to protect his interests. This is why Ishihara intervened.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Ayesha

whatever you say, Ishihara is Japanese. So it is Japanese caused the tension, NO OTHER EXCUSE!

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Obvious to the world, Japan started the current cycle of heighten tension

The owners of the islands wanted to sell. Right winger Ishihara then suggested that Tokyo Metropolis buy the islends and fortify them, after the Chinese skipper repeatedly rammed the coastguard cutter. To avoid the right wing arguments, the left of center DPJ had the government buy out the islands from the private owners. This was to avoid problems with China and any right wing suggestion of fortifying them. In what way did Japan "start the current cycle of heightened tension/" ???

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Ayesha

Can Chinese domestic opinion now accept a policy of reducing tension in the region?

The Chinese domestic opinion now just want to trigger a war with Japan immediately.

the reason is as following:

the dispute islets are belong to China. It is Japan started the tension by illogically bought these islet from person. Japan once killed too many Chinese.

a. Chinese domestic opinions believe in the "Cairo Declaration" and "Potsdam Proclamation", which had been admit by four parts include China, UK, USA, and the signature of Japan. Which define the territory of Japan only include the original land of Japan, and Japan should return all the territory which gained after the www1. b. These islets had owners and China and Taiwan keeping raising the evidence of this. but Japan keep saying no evidence to prove there was owner of these islets, just keep saying Japan had once officially have action on the comfort women, this is just like close oneself's eyes to believe in they all other people will not see the truth.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

So much misinformation from many posters. Let me provide my view, hopefully a more balanced view.

1) On the PRC’s ADIZ - - - As I posted before…

People, reporters included, have missed a key point in this dispute.

It is not because China ESTABLISHED this identification-zone over international air space… More than 20 countries (started by US) ESTABLISHED their identification-zones the same way decades ago. Additionally, US naval carriers have established “mobile” identification-zones around them.

It is not because China UNILATERALLY established this identification-zone … all countries did their identification-zones “UNILATERALLY”.

It is not because this Chinese identification-zone OVERLAPS with that of Japan, Korea, Taiwan… Japanese identification-zone (expanded twice) OVERLAPS with that of Korea and Taiwan (against their protests).

It is not because this Chinese identification-zone requires IDENTIFICATION AND LOCATION INFORMATION before the plane enters the zone aiming to fly into the host country… All identification-zones have this requirement.

The problem is that China identification-zone requires “flight plans beforehand for even just passing-through”… that is a new requirement that does not exist in the previous ADIZ identification-zones from the other countries. So the “flight plan for passing through” should be the bone of contention or criticism… because all the other arguments have no moral and logic ground to stand on!

Then I just read from another poster in JT that currently Japan requires the civilian airlines from Taiwan to submit "flight plan for just passing through" the Japanese ADIZ.

Well, if that is true, then Japan has lost ALL its legal and moral ground to protest against PRC's ADIZ? What a hypocritical and double-standard position that Japan is taking. No wonder I heard many people in diplomatic circles in New York UN are laughing behind their backs.

2) Who is the trouble-maker for the current cycle of “tic for tac” - - - Before 12-months ago, the Senkaku/Diayu area was fairly quite even with the conflicting claim of ownership for many decades… PRC’s government ships and planes never enter this region; actually PRC (and Taiwan) tried to stop their fishing boats from reaching this area. But this relatively quiet disappeared after the “nationalization” of the disputed islands about a year ago by the Japanese government… i.e. broke the status quo of this area.

Obvious to the world, Japan started the current cycle of heighten tension.

-8 ( +8 / -16 )

looking at it now, this was a pretty smart move by china. as soon as airlines recognized the new ADIZ, they can begin to lay claim that countries have "accepted" that the area is china's. as redd foxx used to say, "crazy like a fox."

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

as the major trade relationship between the two Asian powers is a strong incentive for both sides to avoid conflict.

I think the desire not to have the whole region go up in smoke would also be a strong incentive, but yes, economically, China would be better off with the U.S. and Japan as customers, and the U.S. and Japan would be better off not losing such a strong manufacturer of products. Already, though, other manufacturers are being/have been developed, as businesses seek to avoid a disruption in their supply chains.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Civil war is looming ever so bright.

Good! Better keep it inside China than let it expand outside!

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Biden says China needs to do this & that.... Abe says China needs to do this & that cause we have the US to back us.... since when did Biden and Abe become Chinese president and premier? U run your country and I'll run mine, that means US go home and Japanese can run our own country! Telling the Chinese is our job, we will work with them. Abe, grow a pair!

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

It'll all end in tears, I know it will.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

"China must take steps to reduce tension in region" good luck with that. Korea and Japan are not really helping all that much, but lately China is trying REALLY hard to push things further. They are actively controlling public opinion, the internet, and media with anti-Japanese sentiment. Lets not forget the riots that took place. China only sat back and let the hate filled protests happen, they basically engineered them to happen through their media. Like I said, Japan isn't helping, but at this point in the escalation, I don't think Japan should step down either. I mean china is trying to expand. WTF is that. Its the year 2013, not 1939.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Can Chinese domestic opinion now accept a policy of reducing tension in the region?

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Biden is correct, but the PRC will not because if it does it will have to admit that it has overstepped and tried to bite off more than what it can eat.

If the PRC admits that it is weak, the sky will fall and their rabid followers will feel shamed and the sky may fall.

Civil war is looming ever so bright.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

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