China aims for Nanjing's history to speak loudly on Japan

The massacre can not be forgotten or denied but like in any country there will always be people who deny these things. Japan and China are no different. With Japanese politicians trying to deny Nanjing and Chinese government for trying to cover up or gloss over Tiananmen square and other crack downs on democracy. We can only hope that people can learn from these things to build a better world.

There is a lot about the current Chinese propaganda offensive against Japan that doesn't sit well with me, but they are absolutely right to stand their ground on this one and attempt to silence the disgraceful revisionists and atrocity deniers that muddy the waters of history in Japan.

The Japanese Government really needs to take the cue here and release some kind of definitive statement that says: "The Government and people of Japan acknowledge and recognise that the Rape of Nanjing was conducted by IJA forces and that up to 300 000 people were killed as a result. This is an undisputed fact of the war"

So this is where they're burning their anti-Japan 6.6 billion dollars propaganda campaign?

"China says in the weeks that followed, Japanese troops killed 300,000 people. A post-war Allied tribunal put the death toll at 142,000."

China was represented at that tribunal. So just exactly how did this number increase to 300,000? If I recall the foreigners on site used the term "tens of thousands", and the ROC used 100,000 at the Tokyo Trials where it was dismissed for lack of evidence. Whatever statement the Japanese government makes, if they do, should be based on objective facts rather than fictitious numbers inflated for propaganda.

@OssanAmerica

If I recall correctly PRC is trying to pus up the numbers to 450,000.

Basically most Japanese are not denying if a massacre occured or not. It's the details that Japan is trying to straighten out like the number, intentions and actual events that said to have taken place.

Without reaching a consensus on those this issue is going to come out again and again.

OssanAmerica, it isn't about numbers. It is about making sure this vile act is not trivialized and watered down to look like a few frat boys went amok one night and the next day everything was alright. It's about Japanese politicians - all of them-standing by the apologies presented by past prime ministers. It's about making sure textbooks aren't revised to cover up or completely remove it from history. Look at Germany and their treatment of history after the war: they came clean and have wholeheartedly acknowledged their wrongdoing and I believe it is a crime to deny the Holocaust happened. Japan has a long way to go because many people here really don't get it.

Getting caught up in the numbers misses the point: regardless of whether it was 50,000 or 300,000 it was still an inexcusable atrocity.

The right wing politicians who keep denying that it ever happened or otherwise trying to dismiss it are just preaching to a choir of fellow domestic nut-jobs while totally ruining Japans international position. This is a no-win issue for Japan. If they would just shut their mouths and show some basic decency about this world opinion on the overall Japan-China situation would be much more favorable to Japan. Instead these idiots just keep giving China all the ammunition it needs to paint Japan as a dangerous country bent on re-arming itself and invading its neighbors. Comparing Abe to Hitler, as Chinese officials done, would seem like laughable communist propoganda that everyone could easily dismiss but for the fact that some of Abes closest political allies are almost daily issuing statement defending fascist war criminals.

The number of people killed should be irrelevant to the atrocity committed. Where the problem lies appears to be Japanese denial of the number of people killed as touted by the Chinese. Very few people in Japan deny the massacre occurred, just a few of those in positions of authority, but being accused incessantly by history revisionist China is grating to Japanese sensibilities. The list of Chinese whitewashed historical killings is endless. Who are they to claim innocence of their own inhumanities whilst pointing the finger at inhumanities of the distant past of another nation wjo has done all that they could to steer a new direction. Be careful China, lest a Japan that you create becomes the very threat you espouse it to be.

All of this nonsense on ALL sides is a smokescreen for politicians to win brownie points with their electorate. I'm so sick of it all.

Destruction of Japanese businesses and assaults of Japanese civilians throughout China, take 3.

Making the number of deaths the issue is a way to divert attention from the actual atrocity. Settle on the allied tribunal number, and educate the world on the atrocity. Any attempt to distract with numbers by old Japanese politicians is shameful and equal to present day Germans arguing the numbers that died in death camps. It makes them look foolish, out of touch, and dangerous.

China should focus not only about Nanjing's suffering under imperial Japanese, but reminds its people and the rest of the world of how many millions Chinese were killed and abused under chairman Mao during cultural revolution. That is a good thing to face and deal with the real event in history. Lessons can be learned from all of these...

Since China's so keen to bring up the past, why don't they bring up the occupation of Tibet? Why don't they bring up the Cultural Revolution? Both of these, and many more events of the past, speak at least as loudly as Nanjing. So why doesn't China ever talk about these? Because Japan didn't commit these atrocities, China did. China brings up Nanjing because it's convenient for inciting nationalism within its own people, and for reminding the world just how "evil" Japan is. Never mind that this was 77 years ago and Japan is very different now to how it was then. People are learning a lot about China just from this propaganda battle. We're learning that China are whiny children who can't move on from the past and are determined to paint Japan as the enemies, even though no-one else in their right mind sees Japan that way. Typical China. They never change, unlike the majority of the rest of the world.

Meanwhile domestic massacres, committed by the CCP and massacres of Chinese in countries other than Japan are not mentioned.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/stories/indonesian-massacre-of-ethnic-chinese-documentary-reactions.html

(Apparently some Chinese netizens think expat Chinese are lesser humans than Mainland Chinese? The more you know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing

(Made by somebody neither Chinese or Indonesian)

None of this absolves what Japan did in WW2. But Japan did a lot more to make amends with China than Indonesia.

Decades after things were settled, the CCP suddenly decides it's not enough. I guess it has nothing to do with the Senkakus.

Idiot right wingers, including politicians, in Japan at their worst are still not threatening China, or anywhere else. They're making ludicrous claims about foreign territories. Private property is not being destroyed either.

Ten years from now Communist China will claim that 3,000,000 were killed in Nanjing.

The bigger the number the better the press coverage.

Facts have never been a friend of propaganda.

I wonder what did good ole Mao have to say about the Massacre?

Oh wait, that's right he didn't bring it up at all.

Hmm, I wonder why?

The communist party was never near Nanking during the event and I believe Mao even praised it after hearing the news.

Only extremists deny the holocaust in Germany. Here people in the highest positions do so. How do you ever expect to become friendly neighbours?

fine, so japan committed atrocities in nanjing over 75 years ago. please explain why the vast majority of japanese most of whom did not participate and were not even born yet should take the blame or feel guilty for it?

after all its just a drop in the bucket when compared to the atrocities committed by china against its own people during the cultural revolution.

First of all I'd like to say I have absolutely no sympathy for many of the oyajis in power in Japan that continually stir up this topic.

Also, I would suggest having a read of this article:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/24/national/china-seeks-wwii-focus-for-xi-during-germany-visit/#.Uwrp4vvW6E8

Please at any time do not ever think there is any sense of altruism nor moral justice in what the CCP does in regards to constantly bringing up the past. As a Chinese, I am angered at the ludicrous and stupid comments (NHK, etc), but I would also like to stress, at least personally that I do not consider the concept of "Sins of the Father" a desirable thing even to the slightest, unlike the CCP.

If you have a look at the article above, it states very clearly that Germany is in no mood of any sorts to play ball with China's game let alone get involved in what is purely a neighbourhood dispute. As far as the CCP is concerned, non-Chinese feelings deserve no respect and are fit only to be used as mere tools. So, in that respect, even this most horrid tragedy is something that the CCP uses as a tool - I can only begin to call this a CCP induced campaign of inciting racial hatred against the Japanese people, as the extent of what they have gone to to in this campaign has gone past any logical conclusion of merely educating others about history.

Also, please let me stress that whilst in my opposition to the CCP, I do not wish these comments to validate anything dubious that may have been said or done on the Japanese side - far from it. This does not absolve them of what they did during the war, nor justify it, nor is a denial of any atrocity of any sort. The event and the archives of the Nanjing Massacre are indeed something that should be remembered and viewed, but NEVER to be used as a political football of any sorts, by any side, or political persuasion, as this in my opinion is a most vile act of desecration of the dead.

These people did not die so any party could politically justify themselves to visit harm of any sort on to others. They deserve to be remembered, and allowed to rest in peace.

@Fox Cloud Lelean Since China's so keen to bring up the past, why don't they bring up the occupation of Tibet? Why don't they bring up the Cultural Revolution? Both of these, and many more events of the past, speak at least as loudly as Nanjing.

As an chinese i knew the story in Tibet and cultural revolution, but is thre any link betwen this and Nanjing massacre? Tibet or culture revolution, this is China's own story. shall chinese blame themselves on how many person killed during Qing dynasty? how many people killed in the 3 kindom period? before they ask Japan to apologize for the Nanjing massacre?

How many Japness killed During the warring states period in Japan?

Mocheake

OssanAmerica, it isn't about numbers.

I disagree here, but...

It is about making sure this vile act is not trivialized and watered down to look like a few frat boys went amok one night and the next day everything was alright.

Agreed, with a caveat. If China has been changing the numbers, then China is guilty of trivializing the event too. It's interesting to read (as per Ossan's post) that the ROC stated 100,000 at the Tokyo trials and a post-war Allied trial put the number at 142,000.

Denial is despicable whether it's 100,000 or more. However, China hardly helps its own case if it really is inflating the figure without credible evidence. Fabrication, if that's what it is, is just as despicable.

Are they going to talk about Tibet while they're at it!?

MocheakeFeb. 24, 2014 - 09:41AM JST OssanAmerica, it isn't about numbers

senseimanFeb. 24, 2014 - 09:47AM JST Getting caught up in the numbers misses the point

I have heard these comments countless times and find them absurd. If a person killed 5 people, how is he to ever apologize or feel remorse if he is constantly charged with killing 50 or 100? And how is he ever going to if his denying that it was 50 or 100 is transformed into "he's denying he killed anybody"? It seems to me that if China truly wanted to "resolve" the issue they would not arbitrarily raise the numbers. In other words, China has no intention of ever "resolving" the issue as it serves too great a purpose for their anti-Japan agenda which we all know is a political tool used by the CCP government.

It is not very useful now for China to highlight the Nanjing massacre in China as the people are all aware of the atrocities. Preaching to the Japanese is also not very useful as there will be people who will continue to deny. China must bring the atrocities during the dark period to the world by exhibitions, talks and history lessons so that Japan cannot continue to deny and always claiming that China is using this to distract the people from China's problems.

Mitsuo - your data is as wrong as your logic.

How on earth did you arrive at 60,000 casualties???

At least 50 TIMES that figure were killed, let alone the millions maimed and brutalised.

And re the true number of fatalities in Nanking we will never know, but to believe a military force of 100,000's couldn't kill 10,000's + is really quite naive.