politics

China and Japan seek to ease tensions, but risks remain

28 Comments
By Linda Sieg and John Ruwitch

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2013.

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

28 Comments
Login to comment

Oh China, when you'll realize in order to beat down the west hegemony, we need to get along.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Oh China, when you'll realize in order to beat down the west hegemony, we need to get along

it hard for china to realize that Japan is not seeking hegemony bacause of the bitter experience in World War 2

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The world needs China and Japan to be friends economically. Can't it be seen that USA needs number two and number three economies to be at each other's throat so they can continue to be number one? Don't fall for this USA prompting agitation in the background. Shelve this dispute for now and get back to your economies...become number one and number two economies... USA is dying.

-7 ( +3 / -11 )

This is gone way out of control. I hope and prayer that people in power dealing with this issue can see that a peaceful and sensible approach is require to resolve this, not the use of planes or boats. Some kind of meeting of the minds with the intentions of a reasonable solution.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Japan needs to stop living in a dream World and should get back to reality and past history, so it will come clean and recognize that these islands belong to China. China has been kind enough not to reclaim what was agreed during negotiations about the Ryukyu islands in the late 1800s. Japan agreed to keep Okinawa and islands north of it, and it also agreed that China would keep the Miyako and Yaeyama, and islands south of them. From Martin Lohmeyer's thesis:

3.3.2. China’s - Japanese Mediation as a suite to Japan’s Invasion Having been invaded the government of the Ryukyu Kingdom sent envoys to the Middle Kingdom so that they could request military assistance. Being weakened by internal disorder the Qing court could not do much in favour of the Ryukyuans.230 Actually, the former U.S. President Ulysses S. Grant had led negotiations between China and Japan in a private meeting. In this mediation, Japan proposed that from the Okinawa Islands to the north all territories should become Japanese. All the territories belonging to Miyako- Yaeyama islands should remain Ryukyu / Chinese. In this peace negotiation, the Diaoyu Islands were not subject to any discussions indicating that they were not considered Ryukyu territory. In 1881, the Qing government finally turned in and signed the treaty to divide the Ryukyu Kingdom into two parts following the Japanese proposal. The Qing emperor withheld his imperial assent to this humiliation.231

Of course, just like in the case of the Diaoyu Islands, Japan was just giving lip service to buy time while it developed its Navy, thanks to the Western powers. I am sure that are probably lots of classified documents dating to the later 1800s when the World started entering an era of great change and turmoil. So, China not only did not acquire what was agreed upon, but Japan invaded it and imposed very onerous conditions. I can not blame China from keeping its guard up.

You can read his whole thesis at: http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/4085/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf

I believe it is very objective, impartial and unbiased. I am not siding with China because of any affinity to it. I live in Japan and like Japan. But Japan lives in a World of denial and needs to wake up from its dream before they turn into nightmares.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

avigatorFeb. 04, 2013 - 10:02PM JST Japan needs to stop living in a dream World and should get back to reality and past history, so it will come clean and >recognize that these islands belong to China

Fascist China needs to stop living in a dream of taking over all of Asia. Territorial expansion is not worth risking a war with the entire free world.

dragon1971Feb. 04, 2013 - 04:48PM JST "Oh China, when you'll realize in order to beat down the west hegemony, we need to get along" it hard for china to realize that Japan is not seeking hegemony bacause of the bitter experience in World War 2

Nonsense. Those who actually remember WWII are a small handful. The entire world on both sides suffered in WWII and we all got over it and are moving forward. But somehow China got stuck in time for 70 years and doesn't know how the world has changed? Or has the Chinese government used anti-Japan education to fan militarism and nationalism and is now using it to justify it's territorial ambitions?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I love this romantic idea that Japan needs to go solo toe to toe with China b/c US influence in Asia is falling, If you want to stay in that world keep reading your Manga. Japan has signed a security cooperation agreement with only 3 countries US, Australia, and India. China has territorial disputes with Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, South Korea, and India. Japan needs to stop counting on having de facto allies thru the US and become a fruitful member of a Pacific Alliance. Japan's current foreign relations have been careless at best and put even close Pacific allies of the US like South Korea and Australia in a tuff spot if called to aid the US in a defense of Japan. A simple plan strengthen the Cooperation and relations with these countries in the Pacific. Create a NATO for the Pacific and sit back as China falls in line and plays by the rules.

Thailand was the first to send aid and the second to send troops after the start of the Korea war just goes to show that even a small player will still ante up when the time comes.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Can't it be seen that USA needs number two and number three economies to be at each other's throat so they can continue to be number one?

No, it really can't. The world economies are too interconnected and war, or significant threat of war, is good for no large scale economy, the US included. The idea that either a lingering dispute or all out war is in US interests is just fiction.

I tend to agree with Christine Lagarde's assessment of the dispute late last year that China and Japan are both too important to the world economy and that the world economic recovery would take a serious hit from escalation of the dispute. The problem is that nationalist hotheads on both sides have waded into the dispute making it harder to backtrack and still save some face. I doubt that many people with serious decision making capabilities genuinely think all-out conflict is a good outcome here.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@avigator Sorry to rain on your parade but you are wrong! The Senkakus are Japanese and always have been!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

This is spat is China's way of making its people forget about China's internal problems like air pollution, safe food production, soil erosion, building codes, government corruption, etc. etc. This territorial riff is nothing more than a diversionary tactic which China is betting will ease domestic pressures on its government. China reminds me of that yappy little dog that threaten to chew your ankle off but when push comes to shove it backs down and plays nice because it knows that it may inflict some damage to that ankle but in the end it would be finished off (in this case the government over thrown).

China’s government treats its people like simpleton dogs and this island spat is simply a shiny object that makes the Chinese people go crazy and chase after it. Hmmm, that says a lot about Chinese people as they seem to have gone for it and forgot that China is slowly poisoning them to death in their own cities. A Chinese Hitler could very well happen in today’s China because it would appear that the Chinese as a whole (per capita) still haven’t matured as a collective which is culturally ingrained. This is not racism but fact as you see it every day in Chinese life. Some of those that leave China for places like Canada are the limited ones that have evolved.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Both parties need to abandon their self-blinding rhetoric and see the truth in front of their noses. The ancient maps drawn when the islands had no practical use are meaningless; they could be included both chinese maps and ryuukyuu maps and their was never any possibility of conflict. As pointed out by the official Japanese line, the island was therefore not belonging to anybody when Japan took control of and put a fish processing plant on it in 1895. However, since one must tell the whole truth and not just the partial truth, the island was made safe for possession just months before by the First Sino-Japanese war of 1894-1895, when Japan sent the Chinese fleet to the bottom of the sea and took control of the seas from Korea to Japan to Taiwan. If China had won that war and controlled the seas, Japan would not have built a fish processing plant on the island. Just concentrate on the whole truth and forget the rest of the fanfare.

It doesn't have to be termed in terms of "China's bitter experience". If that is put forth as a reason, it makes it sound like the Japanese are being asked to give territory as war reparations more than half a century later. Forget that!

It is simply that (1) There was a war where Japan won control of seas while China lost, and (2) He who rules the seas gets the islands in it (3) 2013 is not 1895 and things have changed,

Ironically, Japan has for years already implicitly acknowledged that fact that China has made a claim, by not allowing Japanese to live on or (officially) even land the island, and by not exploiting mineral resources around it. And yet, the government verbally denies that it acknowledges that fact that China has made a claim.

Japan needs to realize that the their naval superiority and defeat of the Chinese navy is what enabled the Senkaku islands to be used by the Japanese. And it needs to ponder whether this island which has never supported generations of Japanese farmers and is actually just a resource asset, requires the same feelings as somewhere Japanese have lived for generations.

Meanwhile, China should drop the one sided ancient historic claims, and stop the forced associating of this issue of resources with facism and imperialism. Don't just use this as an excuse to rub shame in Japan's face. After all, some of China's claims in the South China Sea look quite like imperialism to the weaker than China countries on the losing side there. Be honest ... it is a matter of a change in power balance, and an issue of resources placed nearly equidistant from Japan and Taiwan/China.

Ideally, China and Japan should be able to agree to share the resources, and be friendly about it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You can read his whole thesis at: http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/4085/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf

@Avigator.....Thesis: a statement or theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Legally Diaoyu islets belongs to Taiwan is confirmed after WWII. Even before the end of WWII in 1941,

"during the period of time when taiwan was colonized by japan, Okinawa Prefecture and Taipei Prefecture disputed for ownership of Diaoyu in Tokyo Supreme Court and finally Tokyo court ecided that Taipei win!"

So even today, many Japan scholars and historians agree withTaiwanese ownship of the islets.

However, all sides should forget about old story and move forward, like many posters said here, China and Japan are really like 2 black pot and kettle who don't even know how to ease tensons.......

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

during the period of time when taiwan was colonized by japan, Okinawa Prefecture and Taipei Prefecture disputed for ownership of Diaoyu in Tokyo Supreme Court and finally Tokyo court ecided that Taipei win!"

Not this again. This argument was already presented by a poster named Dog who based it on Martin Lomeyers paper.

"The Court’s decision is neither known nor does the Court’s procedure have a solid legal value. Children of former witnesses reported about the Court procedure. The Court procedure, which has only allegedly taken place, lacks reliable sources. But it cannot be proven that the procedures took place or that a ruling was given."

Thanks for nothing.

To summarize, prior to the Pacific war, Japan did not set/stipulate fishing zones within domestic prefectures/territories. One article states that this so-called hearing took place during 1944, while another person claims it was done during the Taisho era, and another doesn't even state the year such hearing happened. In addition, one claims this took place at (大審院) which is the highest court before the end of the war while the other claim this happed in high court 最高裁 which is post war. In either case, if such hearing happened in those highest courts, there must of been a decision made by the lower courts prior to submitting this case to the higher courts.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

yosunFeb. 05, 2013 - 01:40AM JST Legally Diaoyu islets belongs to Taiwan is confirmed after WWII. Even before the end of WWII in 1941,

Nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_of_thanks_from_ROC_consul_to_Ishigakijima_in_1920.jpg

.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Whatever the history was Japan now has control just like Russia has control of the northern islands. Japan may complain about the latter but they aren't sending aircraft overhead. And the times where Japanese fishing ships entered the waters the Russians seized them.

The way this seems to be working is that China is trying to make claims on other countries territory, hoping to pick them off one by one. Of course the Communists are also using nationalism to deflect criticism from their many failures. Abe is doing some of the same as he has no solution for the economy.

But the thing is, the Japanese government buying the islands to keep the right wingers from buying them is just an acknowledgement of recent history - and tried to defuse the situation. China's response has been to escalate tensions.

They ought to know better. If they want to be seen as a 1st world country they need to behave like one. After the lessons of WWI and WWII the rest of the world is not likely to back down.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The only face saving way I can see is for China to reduce the frequency of 'intrusions' Perhaps once a month to show sovereignty assertion. Just the ships, no planes to lessen the risk and also save Japan big money. Every time the jets go up they burn lots of fuel!

Abe cannot expect no Chinese 'intrusions'. Any success in the summit must immediately include moving forward with joint oil/gas exploration not activated since the 2008 agreement. Actually China can do deep sea drilling by herself now with no assistance from Japan. Japan should realise there is ZERO chance China will allow her to exert sovereignty over the 200 miles EEZ. Japan will just have to settle for a 'pseudo sovereignty' up to the 12 miles coastal waters. This will keep the US happy, keeping China away from potentially making a sub base off the disputed islands in a war victory. (of course some may dispute this!)

The dilution of sea 'intrusions' will become so infrequent that it will become a none newsworthy event. Instead the headline will report 'China Japan Joint Oil/Gas Exploration'! That I hope is the way forward!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@CraigHicks

Very WELL put!

What to you think about putting the dispute to the United Nations or to a mediation by Australia or New Zealand?

I think you are Austrialian, by the way?

Alfred

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hmmm, that says a lot about Chinese people as they seem to have gone for it and forgot that China is slowly poisoning them to death in their own cities. A Chinese Hitler could very well happen in today’s China because it would appear that the Chinese as a whole (per capita) still haven’t matured as a collective which is culturally ingrained. This is not racism but fact as you see it every day in Chinese life. Some of those that leave China for places like Canada are the limited ones that have evolved.

Rule of thumb: if you have to say something is not racist, then it probably is. In your case, you have tried to caveat the claim that the Chinese people are innately stupid and inferior with your subjective observation.

Piss off. That is rank racism and any decent moderator should delete that vile turd of a post.

Just who do you think you are to start stating your bigoted and ignorant views as if they are fact? Your observations are based on nothing but personal prejudice. They are worthless and so are you.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

There already exists within the UN a forum known as the International Court of Justice where nations may file claims and litigate disputes through legal channels.China to date has refused to bring a claim against Japan as regards the Senkakus preferring to prescribe to harassment tactics and verbal threats of war and a global misinformation campaign to convince he world of Chia's own version of history.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I hope Japanese Navy will move to around Senkaku Island. Japanese Government needs to think seriously about Communist Chinese Government's threatening to Japanese Sovereignty. Obviously, Communist Chinese Government is trying to intimidate Japanese Air Force fighter and want to create war. Communist Government wants to go to war with Japan because they can occupy the Senkaku Island. Communist Chinese Government thinks they are in upper hand because Japanese businesses in Communist China will lose more than what China can lose. I'll say only dumb Company boss will decide for new investment in Communist China in this situation. It's warning shoot for all Western Companies and not just for Japanese Company. You can never ever trust Communist Chinese Government.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OssanaAmerica: The victor in a war is always the first to forget the war consequences, but the conquered will always remember the bitter experience and will use it as a historical lesson not to be forgotten. Therefore the Japanese would like the rest of Asia to forget about the ww2 and get on with their lives. In the Province of Quebec, in Canada, all car number plates have an inscription that read "I Remeber" on them, meaning a war that happened centuries ago in which they lost. To ask the Chinese and Koreans not to be apprehensive about Japan is asking them to forget history.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@OssanAmerica

Fascist China needs to stop living in a dream of taking over all of Asia. Territorial expansion is not worth risking a war with the entire free world.

China is not fascist. And Japan does not represent the whole free world.

A message from OZ.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Well, if Japan bought the Islands, then China needs to just back off. China seems to be acting out of harboured animosity for past events. The fact that there COULD be maritime gas reserves shows an alterior motive on Chinas part also. As for Japan, they were smart to purchase the Islands when they did. I'll be referring to it as the Senkaku from now anyway. Let’s just hope that China stops being a bully and leaves before there is any loss of life. My thoughts are with the Japanese military members protecting this islands. May you all be safe and return home to your families, not that that seems likely in the near future.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@tian4670

China is indeed fascist in behaviour, both internally and externally. And whilst "Japan does not represent the whole free world" it's fairly clear that China's ambitions look well beyond Japan. China invades Philippine waters as well and that's a bit further away. China is quietly trying to carve up parts of Africa too for when they're own resources run out.You choose to have blinkered vision, but the rest of the world is not so naïve. Or possibly you're just as daft and uneducated as Takumi Saito (above)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@nigelboy & Ossan:

Sorry I don't agree with your opinion. However I agree that Diaoyu isles belonged to Japan between 1895 and 1945. Actually many Pacific Ocean islands, owned by the US today, were also Japanese before end of WWII.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I live in Sydney. I met a lot of people from Africa and Middle East. They all praise China for what has been done for their countries.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

tian, I am glad to hear that. The difference between Japanese and Chinese business strategy is that Chinese business bring whole China crews in African countries while Japanese business trains local labor to get technical skills. Japanese are opening up schools while Chinese do not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites