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China bristles at Japanese defense minister's remarks

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The present Chinese govt. should atone for th eviolent killing of millions of Chinese during Mao's reighn of terror to bring communism to the forefront.

11 ( +30 / -17 )

JapanGal: So, two wrongs make Japan right? They should both atone for the killings -- China for killing many of it's own people, and Japan for slaughtering more than 10 million across Asia (AND killing many of its own in forced suicides). You agree Japan should also be doing this, right?

In any case, I'm not sure what the guy is really mad at. The new Japanese government is trying more and more to BE China, and succeeding, be it calling "elections" when it knows it will win and no other party has a chance, pushing through laws that no one wants and that will not allow people to protest or they can be legally imprisoned, pushing through changes to the constitution that no one wants, etc. They CALL it a Democracy so long as they get what they want, but really they are no better than China. So why would China be mad Japan is becoming more like them?

-11 ( +16 / -27 )

"Thank you for notifying us about your concerns. Due to the tremendous number of e-mails, we are unable to respond to all of them. Please note that this is our unofficial response. :! Concerned. :! Unconcerned. Bye, bye."

-1 ( +6 / -5 )

smith: How many more years do you want Japan to apologise, or how many more Prime Ministers are acceptable to you?

China and Korea continually hide behind this facade.

Oh, and no, two wrongs don't make a right, but two Writes made an Airplane.

-1 ( +23 / -23 )

"ignores the facts and keeps on rehashing the same tune"

(Wording used by the PRC when they prefer not to get into the detail.) The locked fire control radar (on one vessel) is beyond doubt.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Part and parcel of the job I'm afraid. Open your mouth as a Japanese Defense Minister and China will give you grief. Perhaps some disarming honesty is required. The Minister should go to Beijing and have a discussion with China while dressed in Borat mankini. That would probably throw them.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

China's reckless behavior TODAY has nothing to do with "what China sees as Japan’s failure to atone for its occupation of parts of China before and during World War Two" or some other BS the Chinese come up with.

Newspapers should stop mentioning this in cases like these, since it just gives Chinese propaganda a veneer of respectability.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

If you wrong some people, they remember it for the rest of their lives never fail ingto bring it up. I have personally experienced this. Countries like China, it appears, can also do the same, never burying the hatchet and always bringing up the past without fail.

That being said, when ever someone brings raises a point regarding Japan. The reaction here is often well look at China, look what they did. I find this kind of defense of Japan advocates equally as childish as China. Two wrongs do not make a right.

3 ( +5 / -3 )

They CALL it a Democracy so long as they get what they want, but really they are no better than China.

Tone down the overblown rhetoric, please. We just had free, open, democratic elections last month. Did you forget?

Your freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and freedom of protest is guaranteed in Japan. You know this.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

It is pretty obvious that the military regimes and governments of Japan-China-S. Korea are trying to drum up support from their constituents for increased military spending by building up public animosity against one another and manufacturing mutual threats. I just hope it doesn't escalate out of their control.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Both sides would be better off enjoying the present rather than living in the past.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

China and Korea continually hide behind this facade.

And Japan continuously hides behind its previous insincere apologies and "atonements"

-8 ( +6 / -13 )

JapanGal: "smith: How many more years do you want Japan to apologise, or how many more Prime Ministers are acceptable to you?"

ALL, for the rest of time until they are sincere, and even then they should still continue, just like German Chancellors do. And you know what? None of Germany's former enemies hold any grudges against them at all because Germany has atoned. Contrast that with Japan, where people still deny the Rape of Nanking occurred, and deny sexual slavery existed (or that it was all 'voluntary'!), and where leaders want to rescind apologies and 'tone down' the 'negative bias' against Japan, etc.

"China and Korea continually hide behind this facade."

You are a prime example of the myth of the apology -- the bow because it's necessary, not because it's genuine or what is felt is right. Korea and China, and other nations for that matter, have EVERY right to demand Japan atone for their war crimes -- YOU cannot even bring yourself to admit Japan committed them! Just look:

"Oh, and no, two wrongs don't make a right, but two Writes made an Airplane"

You see? Lame attempts at humor to deflect from the fact that you cannot bring yourself to say Japan committed these crimes and should properly atone for them. Instead you say "China should" and then you can't admit Japan did it when you reply.

Christopher Glen: "And Japan continuously hides behind its previous insincere apologies and "atonements""

Exactly! No one is blaming the current government or people for atrocities of the past, but they ARE saying, and rightfully so, how disgusting it is that the current government and some people claim they know what 'really' happened and that the people who were there were 'lying', or that 'it's a facade' or what have you. Proof that if they have the chance, they are willing to deny history and possibly even repeat it. And we all know Abe's 'beautiful Japan' is a place in the past that ended up being completely destroyed because of it's values, and that he wants to play Japan as the victim of its own atrocities. Disgusting. The Chinese leader has every right to complain about that -- and if people want to complain about Chinese massacres when that topic comes around, fine, so long as they will admit to Japan's.

-6 ( +10 / -18 )

smithinjapan,

Totally agree. If you witness a crime and do nothing about it, the crime is accessory after the fact.

So what does that make Abe and his whitewash brigade?

-7 ( +6 / -14 )

Exactly. And it seems Gen Nakatani was appointed as what he espouses meets with Abe's full approval

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

None of Germany's former enemies hold any grudges against them at all because Germany has atoned

Russians, Poles and plenty of Brits do.

2 ( +7 / -6 )

Russians, Poles and plenty of Brits do.

The older generation perhaps (my mother among them) because they lived through the war. The younger generation doesn't hold any grudges because of the steps that Germany - and Austria - have taken to atone. Abe could learn a lot from their example

-3 ( +7 / -11 )

First, the idea that discussions of apologies over past actions belong even in the same article as China's current actions is a sign of how warped debate is over this point.

"You attacked my ship!" "But you didn't apologize for Nanking! So we are at least even."

It hasn't quite gotten to this point. But it is close.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

First, the idea that discussions of apologies over past actions belong even in the same article as China's current actions is a sign of how warped debate is over this point.

Not really. Japan attacked and occupied greats parts of Asia. It conducted biological experiments on live human subjects, and sexually enslaved possibly 200,000 women. China did commit a lot of atrocities too - against its own people. If Japan were to properly atone, then there would be no reason for China not to have a more honest appraisal of its history

-8 ( +5 / -14 )

-smithinjapan Germany and Japan were not the same in WW2. Germany had extermination camps with tge sole purpose of exterminating jews. For mebIvcan say sorry. But the new generations dont need to be ashamed for. Its OK to know history but seasoning it with politics and rethoric will never work. ABE didnt shoot a single bullet back in WW2. Why does he need to truly apologise?

4 ( +11 / -7 )

First and foremost many countries have alot to atone for and not one country should be single out as the only one to do so. If a country of its own choosing decide to comment and atone for their past aggressions, more power to them. I love to learn from the past and choose not to live there. Many of us needs to do that.History is written by the victors and losers with their own spin which explains why history is only His Story.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

it's been 70 years, let it rest already

8 ( +11 / -3 )

China did commit a lot of atrocities too - against its own people. If Japan were to properly atone, then there would be no reason for China not to have a more honest appraisal of its history

Christopher Glen

In 1979 China unleashed a war against Vietnam, and during this war Chinese committed a lot of crimes against Vietnamese population. Just ask Vietnamese what do they think about China. Have you ever heard about China "atone" for this war, or just say sorry for it? And it is a big mistake to think that if Japan "properly atone" for the WWII China will calm down. No way. If Japan do it, China will just ask for more apologies. If Japan apologize again, China will demand compensation money. If Japan pay, China will demand the Senkaku. As simple as that.

7 ( +13 / -5 )

The Emperor himself has said that Japan needs to reflect on it's past. He was quite clear about this, and specifically mentioned the "Manchurian Incident" (Japan's false flag attack that precipitated war with China). In fact, Japan acted in bad faith in the 1930's and murdered tens of millions of its fellow Asians. This was a criminal act on a massive scale.

So these rightists who worship the Emperor better start paying attention to what the man himself clearly stated. Otherwise they are behaving like rebels and disloyal imperial subjects.

Here are his exact words: “It is most important for us to take this opportunity to study and learn from the history of this war, starting with the Manchurian Incident of 1931, as we consider the future direction of our country,”

Just sayin'..

-2 ( +4 / -7 )

"a dispute over a chain of uninhabited islets in the East China Sea"

I bet the vast majority of Chinese and Japanese don't actually give a hoot about these uninhabited islets.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@japangal Please ignore the sensationalist members in this forum. According to their logic Americans today are still responsible for slavery. While I personally feel strongly on the crimes of the Japanese regime during the events of WWII. I believe two cities blown to dust, massive casualties, regional influence loss. and Countless apologies have atoned that sin.

Something else to consider. We are talking about events 80 years ago. when the last person alive during the events of WWII is dead the apology train will hopefully be derailed. I cannot fathom apologizing for something I did not do, or for the actions of a generation ago.

it would be like asking the Chinese to apologize for the then Mongol invasions. Ridiculous

7 ( +12 / -4 )

"Beijing has repeatedly engaged in “dangerous actions” in the East China Sea."

I'd say that's a fairly accurate statement.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Japan's issue is they want to whitewash their own text books. That absolutely needs to stop period. If Japanese politicians had enough sense to stop denying Japan's role in the past and openly acknowledge that the leaders of the past made very bad choices China and Korea wouldn't have anything to stand on period. But this is Japan, it appears they will never "grow up" and all three will continue with these tantrums.

Not that China has much to go on in its own little "manifest destiny" quest of expand and conquer.

-5 ( +5 / -11 )

Interesting this guys name is Gen. At first glance it looks like its short for General (when in fact he achieved only a very low rank).

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Many of the Japanese nationalist/apologists and Chinese nationalists/apologist here at JT share one very dangerous thing in common:

Both argue that China is bad, or Japan is bad, bla bla bla bla bla, as if that has any relavence to this issue.

A territorial dispute that can lead to a shooting war is fundamentally special. It doesn't matter if China is 100% right or 100% wrong when it comes to its own history in general, or its claims on the Senkakus.

The only thing that matters is who shoots first and upsets the status quo.

China's repeated intrusions into contested waters and airspace in the manner they have gives Japan the right to blow them out of the water, or shoot them out of the sky. It is that simple.

And if Japan does that, we got a whole new ballgame. A very, very dangerous ballgame. And China is to blame to blame for that. because China is not pursuing its territorial claims on the Senkakus -- or whatever you want to call them, in a manner that any nation in the region can tolerate.

So forget about Mao. Forget about textbooks. Forget about the Bataan Death March. Forget it all.

The only thing that matters is that China is not pursuing its territorial claims on those islands in an acceptable manner. They are being aggressive, and I for one, am sick of it.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

...again we will just see child's play in coming weeks.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If Japan were to properly atone, then there would be no reason for China not to have a more honest appraisal of its history

Except for the fact that this is China we are talking about, which doesn't give a damn about world opinion or democracy

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Smith in Japan - Germany Atoned? well on the surface - as long as no one really looks to discover what happened to the nazi's. most if they did not end up in the Soviet Union - or off to to SE Asia with the French Foreign Legion- lived till they were old and grey.

no atonement really- you just did not talk about it.

even the USA and the Vatican assited in moving Nazis.

So to keep pushing Japan and paint China as the grieving child when it destroyed several generations and even today has no real freedom. no- you're scales of justice are so imbalanced

4 ( +5 / -1 )

JTDanMan, considering these points here, Japan changed the status quo in September 2012 despite China insisted that they shouldn’t do it and Japanese government denied about the agreement to shelve the issues even existed. The truth came out from Britain recently that the agreement did exist and Japanese government lied about it. So, the island dispute has existed for decades and China had kept its words not to change the status quo. Japan broke its words and conducted various crafty schemes to discredit China. Because of all those lies and denies, China can no longer believe or trust Japan. Pursuing the case in the court system is currently not a viable option as Japan has the administrative control over the islands and insisted that the dispute does not exist. No dispute, no talk, no case. The only way China can do to assert its sovereignty is by patrolling in the area according to international law. Note that China did not send in any battle ships or planes in an aggressive manner, all it wants is to protect its sovereignty and it has the right to do so.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Because of all those lies and denies, China can no longer believe or trust Japan. Pursuing the case in the court system is currently not a viable option as Japan has the administrative control over the islands and insisted that the dispute does not exist. No dispute, no talk, no case. The only way China can do to assert its sovereignty

False. China could simply excute the following declaration.

http://www.icj-cij.org/jurisdiction/?p1=5&p2=1&p3=3

As to the 'status quo', the only party that broke them are China who reasserted their position.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Flowers

Japan did not change the status quo in 2012. Japan asserted sovereignty and exercised control before, during and after the change in ownership from a private party to the Japanese government.

China has every right to dispute Japan's ownership and control over the Senkakus -- or whatever you want to call them. Japan has every right to listen to China's complaints, ignore them, or give China the finger.

Here is China has NOT RIGHT to do: infringe upon possession of another nation by intruding on its waters and air space. China's use of bullying and intimidation to press their territorial claims on the Senkakus -- or whatever you want to call them -- can not, and is not, tolerable to any nation in the region.

Japan can, with US and nearly every other nation in the region's backing, blow Chinese ships out of it's waters, and shoot Chinese aircraft our of its airspace. Doing so would is entirely within its rights.

China's bullying is wrong, stupid and dangerous.

If you support China asserting control over the Senkakus -- or whatever you want to call them -- then you'd better wise up. Because what China is doing is not working, and never will work.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

China clearly preferred Ishihara's plan to build stuff on the islands and extract the resources, so that should be Japan's next move.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

nigelboy, true, China could execute the ICJ declaration but will achieve nothing because Japan insisted that there is no dispute. This “no dispute” claim is also used by S Korea and you could see that Japan had gone nowhere with the court system. You and I and the rest of the world know that there is a dispute why then Japan’s kept saying there is no dispute. This is a way to avoid the court system.

JTDanMan, Japan did change the status quo in September 2012 when it nationalized the islands and knowing full well that China would react this way. This shows that Japanese government planned for it to happen all along. China has every right to patrol its OWN TERRRITORY even Japan is afraid to “blow Chinese ships out of the waters, and shoot Chinese aircraft.” After China kept its words for decades and now Japan betrayed its trust, it’s natural for China to respond this way. I don’t see it as bullying especially when China stands alone on its pursuit even though Chinese navy is inferior to Japan’s. Notice that every confrontation Japan has always displayed superior powers, for example, fighter jets vs. a Chinese propeller plane. Also, Japan tried to solicit supports to go against China everywhere (but only found one); China bashing is the norm for Japan, this is what I call bullying. I don’t know what you mean by “not working, and never will work,” China already established that it also has the control over the islands through the ADIZ and patrolling without hindrance. The area is now off limit, Japan cannot do anything in that area.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

nigelboy, true, China could execute the ICJ declaration but will achieve nothing because Japan insisted that there is no dispute. This “no dispute” claim is also used by S Korea and you could see that Japan had gone nowhere with the court system. You and I and the rest of the world know that there is a dispute why then Japan’s kept saying there is no dispute. This is a way to avoid the court system.

False. If China did execute the ICJ declaration, Japan is obligated to the following , and vice versa

"The States parties to the Statute of the Court may "at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other State accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court.

Each State which has recognized the compulsory jurisdiction of the Court has in principle the right to bring any one or more other State which has accepted the same obligation before the Court by filing an application instituting proceedings with the Court, and, conversely, it has undertaken to appear before the Court should proceedings be instituted against it by one or more such other States. "

Since Korea is also not a signatory of the said declaration, they can avoid the ICJ.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Flowers

Again, Japan's 'nationalizing' [sic] the Senkakus is irrelevant. Japan did not change the status quo in 2012. The status quo was while both Japan and China asserted sovereignty over the Senkakus, only Japan exercised control.

That is the status quo. Not who claims, but who controls.

Again, Japan controlled the Senkakus. before, during and after the change in ownership from a private party to the Japanese government.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Senkaku/Daioyu islands were transferred to Japan in terms of “administrative rights.” The U.S. clearly avoided the term “sovereignty” when returning these islands in 1972. The phrase reflects in part the ambiguous status of the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands. The Senkaku/Daioyu Islands were not part of the Ryukyu Kingdom originally. In addition, given the political environment of the Cold War the special proximity of these islands to the PRC gave them a special status in the eyes of the U.S. Perhaps the U.S. wished to carve out a special political space for those islands. That phrase “administrative rights” with regards to the islands deserves careful consideration. One might ask what exactly the difference is between “administrative rights” and sovereignty or ownership. In what exact sense does an island belong to a nation and who, ultimately does that nation belong to?

The question must be raised if it is equitable to apply western influenced methods to determine the ownership of the islands. The Chinese distrusts the modern concept of international law. For Chinese, the occupation of terra nullius in 1895 is regarded as a disguised way of aggression. Despite the Chinese stance of distrust, it may be known that China has assimilated their legal framework to almost all western titles of territory. Without a doubt, it was the Chinese who at first discovered the islands. The Japanese even do not dare to call into question this historical facts. The discovery has been sufficient for a title in the 16th century, one needs to adhere to the rules set up by the international tribunals.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

nigelboy, you missed the first paragraph when it says “Japan recognizes as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other State accepting the same obligation and on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, over all disputes arising on and after 15 september 1958 with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date and being not settled by other means of peaceful settlement.” The word “disputes” is in here somewhere, can you find it? Now you tell me whether there is a dispute in this case.

JTDanMan, OK you want to have your cake and eat it too. Status quo means “no changes what so ever,” whether it be who claims, who owns, or who controls. You couldn’t just say freeze everything then you decided to shuffle the deck. According to you, “The status quo was while both Japan and China asserted sovereignty over the Senkakus, only Japan exercised control,” so China has the right to assert sovereignty by patrolling in the area. There is no point to blame China then.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

nigelboy, you missed the first paragraph when it says “Japan recognizes as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other State accepting the same obligation and on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, over all disputes arising on and after 15 september 1958 with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date and being not settled by other means of peaceful settlement.” The word “disputes” is in here somewhere, can you find it? Now you tell me whether there is a dispute in this case.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. It's a simple document. If China executes the said declaration and subsequently files suit against Japan, both parties not only abide by the jurisdiction of the court, but the compulsory decision as well.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

ICJ means nothing. Regardless if Japan or China went to ICJ, there is no guarantee that loser of the case will not follow the ruling that was not in their favor. Nobody is going to enforce the ruling anyway. So what does it matter? What is important the most for Japanese or Chinese politicians is the public opinion, and they will not respect the ruling that is not favorable on the sovereignty of Senkaku/Daiyou. So your back to square one.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Interesting that it seems in this case neither side brought up WWII atonement. Nakatani said that China has been committing dangerous actions - which seems accurate to me - and China said no, it's legitimate, and raised it's usual smoke and mirrors, saying we should not worry about Chinese military threat. Just personally, I find this threat very worrying.

The whole atonement discussion arose from editorial comments in the article, as the press likes to keep poking the bear so to speak.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

nigelboy, yes it’s a simple document but every word that is used means something. In this case “over all disputes” means Japan has to recognize that there is a dispute. If not, why use the word “disputes” and not “cases” or “claims”? If there is “no dispute” Japan is not obligated to comply so it would be fruitless for China to go this route.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The reality is that Japan has neither the capabilities (weaponry and manpower) nor financial means to fight a war with its bigger neighbor.

So, the best possible way for Japan to do would be just ignore Chinese regime’s complaints and continue working onthe peace plan; and at the same time stopping verbal provocations which won’t solve any issues. Instead those empty nationlistic propaganda could jeopardize the ongoing negotiation on disputed islets. Frankly, Gen Nakatani's warnning has no teech at all in terms of putting a brake on Chinese military jets patrol in East China Sea.

The problem is that Senkaku islands are under Japan’s control, and they are disputed, and techinically speaking, they are not yet Japan’s sovereignty of land. This is why Chinese coastgurad ships routinely go there, and Japanese coastguard ships can only shadow them .

Japan is slowly and surely fading/graying into the background, any armed conflicts could speed up the structure changes.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapanJAN. 13, 2015 - 06:57PM JST JapanGal: "smith: How many more years do you want Japan to apologise, or how many more Prime Ministers are acceptable to you?"

ALL, for the rest of time until they are sincere, and even then they should still continue, just like German Chancellors do. And you know what? None of Germany's former enemies hold any grudges against them at all because Germany has atoned. Contrast that with Japan, where people still deny the Rape of Nanking occurred, and deny sexual slavery existed (or that it was all 'voluntary'!), and where leaders want to rescind apologies and 'tone down' the 'negative bias' against Japan, etc"

In the first place, Japan's leaders have not "rescinded" any apologies and there is no evidence that they "want to." Abe has already stated that Japan stands by past apologies. You appear to be buying Chinese propaganda hook, line and sinker. How do you judge if an apology is "sincere" or not?

That " None of Germany's former enemies hold any grudges against them at all because Germany has atoned" is not quite true. The reason that it appears that Germany's former enemies do not seem to hold any grudges is because of cultural differences. Western cultures are more apt to forgive and forget the past and move on, certain other cultures such as the Chinese and Koreans (and Muslim cultures who still remember the crusades) are not. Perhaps Western countries realize that the present generations of Germans had nothing to do with WWII, just as the present generations of Japanese had nothing to do with it. You might consider that in fact Western countries and most Asian countries have in fact "forgiven" Japan and live in the present, not the past and do not continue to beat a dead horse.

You cite such atrocities as the Nanjing Massacre (of which the so-called "facts" vary greatly) biological experiments, while ignoring that Germany did much worse (the Holocaust) and biological experiments as well, and the war crimes of the allies (the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the fire-bombing of Tokyo and Dresden, etc.) You apparently reason that there were no "war criminals" in WWII except for Germans or Japanese, ignoring the fact that there never are any war criminals in any winning side in any war, only on the losing side. It is all politics, and the winners call the shots.

As long as it is politically advantageous and expedient for China to demonize Japan and continue to have it as an "outside enemy" supposely thwarting China's "rise" it will continue to do so. Japan could apologize a million times and it would not make a bit of difference.

As for the Senkaku Islands if China feels it has a legitimate claim to those islands all it has to do is pursue its case through legal means. It will not, so that should tell you something about the legitimacy of its claim.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

EthanWilber Jan. 14, 2015 - 07:55AM JST The reality is that Japan has neither the capabilities (weaponry and manpower) nor financial means to fight a war with its bigger neighbor.

If your assumption is correct, both countries will be in no win situation. You have to remember that China and Japan has over $345 billion dollars in annual bilateral trade and they have alot to lose if they cannot figure out diplomatically. The Japan's current nationalism rise is more of a preception than a reality. In less than two decades, China will be importing 80 percent of her oil needs, and they will continue to have problems finding new source of energy. China with the energy shortage, will most likely be much more assertive around the East and South China Seas, and around the world, and conflicts will most likely happen unless China improve it's diplomacy.

In the case of China, of course, the U.S. faces far less of a security threat than it did from the Soviet Union. Today, U.S. dwarfs China militarily in both nuclear and conventional forces. We all know that security conflicts continues to create serious tensions between the U.S. and China. However, China is the largest growth market in the world for U.S. goods and services. Trade with China, the U.S. export market has helped U.S. recovery from the financial crisis, and the future improve relations will remain top priority for both countries.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@EthanWilber So you admit Japan needs to up its defense spending and aliances. Good, we agree.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I agree with Smith snd Bertie. Without a sincere apology backed-up with concrete actions, there can be no progress. The issue here has nothing to do with China' internal identity problems during its revolution from years of colonialism. The problem in uestion is between Japan and China, and the aggressor was Japan. So far it has shown an empty apology, which has been validated by Abe's attempt to revoke previous declarations. About countries' exterminations, Japan had much longer periods of bloosheds of their own kind.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The reality is that Japan has neither the capabilities (weaponry and manpower) nor financial means to fight a war with its bigger neighbor

This is simply false. Japan's navy and air force can easily defend the Senkakus. But that is not the matter, because, Japan alone does not stand against China.

The US for two years now has affirmed the following policy:

The US takes no stand on the who rightfully controls the Senkakus; The US recognizes Japan currently controls the Senkakus. The US views any attempt to wrest control of the Senkakus from Japan through the use of force obligates the US, under ANPO, to come to Japan's defense.

If any one here needs to remember anything written on this thread it is the following:

The US will back Japan if China attempts to use force against the Senkakus.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

avigatorJan. 14, 2015 - 08:20AM JSTI agree with Smith snd Bertie. Without a sincere apology backed-up with concrete actions, there can be no progress.

I suspect China will never be satisfied with any apology, and they are happy to keep rejecting apologies and pressing for new apologies because they can turn this position into a popular one among the people in their countries. While recognizing Japan’s guilt in this matter, we also need to recognize the political posturing on the parts of China, Korea, and others who want to keep this issue fresh and unresolved for the purpose of personal political gain.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

JTDanMan, is this really true that “Japan has neither the capabilities (weaponry and manpower) nor financial means to fight a war with its bigger neighbor”? It has been pointed out again and again by numerous posters here that Japan can easily beat China in the war. You seem to have no faith in Japan’s capability. But I can tell you this China will not attack Japan first this is a given so if there is a war that means Japan has started it so forget about the US coming to Japan’s defense because Japan is the aggressor. Accidental conflict is another matter that is a great concern for Japanese government because Japan will be in it alone. That is why Japan is trying real hard to get China to agree to avoid accidental confrontation.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The present Chinese govt. should atone for th eviolent killing of millions of Chinese during Mao's reighn of terror to bring communism to the forefront.

Should the Japanese government apologize to the Japanese people then for starting the war with the USA by bombing Pearl Harbor? Nearly 3 million Japanese people died based on that decision and the country was completely destroyed.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@avigator

About countries' exterminations, Japan had much longer periods of bloosheds of their own kind.

The murderous thugs from the cultural revolution are still in power. Can't have true peace with a non-democracy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Let China bristle all they want. All of Asia and the world knows it's true. China's constant denial of reality mode spewed by their robotic Foreign Ministry isn't fooling anybody .

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nakatani has to learnt: "Much talking is the cause of danger. Silence is the means of avoiding misfortune. The talkative parrot is shut up in a cage."

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"Chinese famine killed upwards of 45 million people during the Great Leap Forward."

When the Chinese come to terms with their own disgusting treatments of their own people, and also for all the killing done in Korea, and Vietnam, then I might find interest in their one sided thinking.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What did the Government of China expect Japan chasing them off with rowing boats and loud-hailers. Playground bullies need to be put in there place.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The first thing that needs to be made clear is the context for these disputes. Japan invaded Korea, Taiwan and China and killed 20 million of their people. None of these countries ever, even once, attacke Japan or harmed a single Japanese. Japan is the one that committed war crimes, conducted experiments on live human beings, and lied and stole territory.

China and Korea have done nothing to pay back Japan for its war crimes. It may be best for Japan to try and find peaceful solutions to these problems. If I was Japanese, I would not be poking these countries in the eye, with the history that exists. It's extremely dangerous.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

nigelboy, yes it’s a simple document but every word that is used means something. In this case “over all disputes” means Japan has to recognize that there is a dispute. If not, why use the word “disputes” and not “cases” or “claims”? If there is “no dispute” Japan is not obligated to comply so it would be fruitless for China to go this route.

No it does not. By signing the declaration, Japan has the obligation to adhere to the complaint of the claimant if the same reciprocal obligation is signed by another state.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Germany had extermination camps with tge sole purpose of exterminating jews.

Japan had Unit 731 in Manchuria where they conducted biological warfare experiments on live human subjects. (After the war their research was handed over to the US and the war criminals went on to work for pharmaceutical companies.) Does this make Japan better than Germany? Not really.

Can't have true peace with a non-democracy.

Since the secrets law was enacted, and last month's sham of an election - this is pretty much what Japan is

China and Korea have done nothing to pay back Japan for its war crimes.

Yes, this is true. They have been very patient while fools like Abe, Hashimoto and Ishihara have spouted off nonsense. Nakatani is little better. China has every right to bristle in this instance

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Chinese CP government is always bristling, What else is new? In the real world, Japan better protect the Senkakus before a Chinese surprise occupation occurs... ask Vietnam and the Philippines for their experience with the new local overlords.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I have been watching the same old debate of WW2 among Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and people from other nations all over the Internet almost ten years. It often begins with an English article that is either neutral or critical of Japanese government. Then comment section starts filling up with ten-paragraph-long comments like,

The first thing that needs to be made clear is the context for these disputes. Japan invaded Korea, Taiwan and China >and killed 20 million of their people. None of these countries ever, even once, attacke Japan or harmed a single >Japanese. Japan is the one that committed war crimes, conducted experiments on live human beings, and lied and stole territory.

and same old mantra—whitewashing J-textbooks, no-apology-no-remorse-no-compensation, Nazi-IJA comparison, Germany-Japan comparison, forked-pregnant women, baby-skull soccer ball, Unit 731, Nanking, Dokdo, East Sea, Daiyou, and so on. Some contains truth, others flat lie or exaggration with little to no evidence but an emotional, dramatized dialogue of "how monks and nuns were gang raped and burned to death and children were kidnapped, tourtured and eaten alive by evil Japs."

Many Koreans and Chinese speak fluent English since they are immigrants living in Western country and very active English-speaking websites, while Japan's only contribution is a tiny segment of Netouyo trolls who just spit F-words and disappear and very few who speak native English. So if some Westerners take Japan's side or present a proof that gives Japan brownie points, they are weeaboos or someone J-government hired (seriously?) Why such patriotic Koreans and Chinese live outside of their countries is beyond me.

What is troublesome, though, those people don't want a healthy debate. Even here on JT, how many times have you seen "Whitewashing J-textbooks" argument? Or the list of J-Governments apology and compensation? Even if the evidence is presented, it is deliverately ignored for one's own agenda, and the same person goes on a different thread and says, "Japan never apologized!"

Even on this very thread, you see names that keep saying the same mantra over and over. Other posters may suggest a link or two to them but by next thread, it'll be forgotten. Or just quick downvote or two and no counterargument.

I think after almost ten years, I see bystanders are getting tired of same old arguments (not even, more like anti-Japan mantra) and those who used to be sympathetic to China and Korea have started to feel slightly different otherwise. After many years with so much proof and evidence available at their hand, repeating same Japan's evildoing over and over like a parrot makes the world wonder who is being brainwashed.

I am not denying Japan's wrongdoing in WW2. But can we please have a constructive discussion. Not just spreading what you heard online or saw on anti-Japan war drama?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

NYtoday, after ten years you must have been frustrated about the repeating points that people here are trying to make, but you must realize that some Japanese people are still living in denial and in lack of remorse. They fixated to the ideas that the atrocities the imperial Japanese committed in the past were not true or distorted or they were propaganda, but the facts cannot be denied. You may think that they were all in the past and Japan now is different and it is now peaceful, you are now being too naive. Have you ever thought that there is a minority of those in power who did not learn from the past and try to lead Japan to the opposite direction?

You can notice the changes in Japan yourself in the last couple of years, such as China bashing, more prominent Yasukuni Shrine visits, new secrecy law, changing textbooks, arms sales, increasing military budgets, changing constitution, and instilling patriotism in the classroom, etc. If Japan really wants to be peaceful and neutral why go all the troubles of changing itself. If you now think it’s because of China, think again. What would China gain from having a conflict with Japan? Really there is nothing worth fighting over. As Chinese leader once said, “we will forgive, but we will never forget,” so no revenge there either. Japan is now seeking more military powers and becoming more and more aggressive. We shouldn’t blame China and Korea for leaning on the side of caution as those who did not learn from the past tend to repeat it.

You shouldn’t blame the Chinese and Korean people who live outside their native countries either as their views tend to be more educated and unbiased for the facts that they are more exposed to western propaganda day in and day out. For ten years a lot of people have shown you what happened in the past and now you know what Japan is becoming, do you still think Japan will be peaceful in the future?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

NYToday

Excellent post.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@flowers

You can't force every single indivisuals to look at the same direction and think the same way. Sure, some don't admit, some look away, some don't care, while others passionately seek for the truth for peace. But as for WW2, Japan as a nation has apologized, compensated, and contributed for world peace. We don't worry every single nutjobs, outlaws, ultrarightests/leftests, socialists, and communists that might not be happy with the government's attitude because as a democratic nation, majority represents all. Your idea of "but not everybody~" is too much of a totalitariaism and can lead a country towards fascism.

And I never "blamed" any Koreans and Chinese for living in foreign countries. You misunderstood my post, perhaps.

And yes, I have learned a lot about East Asian history thanks to serious, passionate, hard-working netizens. As for Japan's future—it has been a peaceful country past 70 years, and under the Heisei Tenno and with majority of Japanese who have good heart, I am not worried at all.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

NYtoday, yes, you can’t fool all of the people all the time, but you can fool most of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time. You seem to think in “a democratic nation, majority represents all.” let me ask you this which political party in Japan has always been in power since the war? Not, LDP? Yes, some of the people can be fooled all the time especially when you have money to spend in the democratic system. How do think the US could create chaos and crisis in the Middle East while the majority of the people in the US is against the wars? You said, “Japan as a nation has apologized, compensated, and contributed for world peace,” but we can’t say the same for the Japanese government who tried to deny or revise the apologies which showed no sincerity in their words, compensations came from the private funds which China refused to accept, and contribution to world peace by following the US (as stated above) and committed to be peaceful by the Constitutions which it’s now trying to change. Japan has no choice but to be peaceful and yes, most of the Japanese people have good heart, but good heart will not stop a war because it can be manipulated in an instant. What you should be worried is the direction that Japan is heading led by those in power while the majority of the people is powerless.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@flowers

let me ask you this which political party in Japan has always been in power since the war?

You know the voters are allow to vote for anyone and, indeed, SDPJ and DPJ were chosssen by majority time to time. They didn't continue to stay in power because they didn't live up to majority's expectation. If that concerns you, Japan's neighboring countries like China, North Korea, and Russia should disturb you more. And what about France? Their people chose ultra-right wingers but what can we say? They got fooled and manipulated? I don't think so.

Anyways, I agree to disagree for knowing both you and I want a peaceful world. I am all against war and I want Japan and any other nations to stay out of it. But those who are currently in it must drop the weapon first.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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