China denounces Japanese ministers' Yasukuni shrine visits

14 Class-A War Criminals are enshrined mixed in with 2,466,532 people enshrined from 1867 to 1951.

Over 1,000 war criminals enshrined, including class B and C.

Or is class B and C war crimes okay? Class A criminals were those who signed orders, and class B and C criminals carried out torture, rape, human experimentation including vivisection without anaesthetic, removing organs to see how quickly people die etc..

There was an article the other day referring to the differences of international perception of the Japanese verses the Germans. This shrine is one of the things that creates the difference.

'people' is not the issue. Cabinet ministers are a different thing. They represent the government, especially when they decide to go together. Abe seems to have no control over his cabinet. One can pray for peace in thousands of shrines or tempes and not offend anyone. Yes, the Chinese use it as an excuse to get at Japan and the cabinet knows this. So why continue to do it? I doubt they go to a shrine other than hatsumode like the rest of us. Do they really thiink people think they are going there to pray?

"what is the appoint of saying SORRY WHEN YOU DON"T MEAN IT AT ALL PM Abe."

No, Abe-san just have very selective memory. And LDP live in a big plastic bubble.

Wow, it take less than 24 hrs for right wing nuts to show their color, what is the appoint of saying SORRY WHEN YOU DON"T MEAN IT AT ALL PM Abe.

Move the war criminals. Is there a grave for hitler that German politicians regularly visit?

Within 24 hours, the apologies, however shallow they were, have been nullified.

really sad indeed.

Only if those Japanese can sympathize with the victims of their parents and grandparents, the war criminals or savages, .....

Only if those Japanese can understand that visiting Yasukuni Shrine is like rubbing salt into the wounds of the war victims....

The world should celebrate for the nuking Japan, ending their savagery. Maybe, those Japanese can understand that rubbing salt into the the wounds really hurts.

@Ossan

Then why has there been such fierce resistance to relocating the remains of those 14 war criminals? And why the attached "museum" which is clearly jingoistic in natur

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?????

Explain REMAINS What are rhey? Where they are kept.

OssanAmerica AUG. 16, 2015 - 07:29AM JST it is NOT a shrine to "glorify war".

This is a flat-out lie. I've been there. I've seen the visitors' vans decorated with missiles and celebratory militaristic imagery lined up for blocks outside. I've seen the visitors cosplaying in Imperial military uniforms. I've been to the Yushukan museum, which is on the shrine grounds and controlled by the shrine leadership, where things like Zeros and a train from the Burma railway are proudly displayed. I've read the exhibits there that say things like Japan was forced to invade China because the Chinese people couldn't govern themselves, and everyone in China liked it except for a few terrorists.

It's frankly hard to get more "glorify war" than that.

Yasukuni has the right to do whatever they want. But based on those decisions, politicians should stop visiting it.

It's all under Yasukuni's control and doctrine. You can't tell Christian churches to do this and that about Jesus Christ or other holy things. Just like that, stay away from religion that you don't understand. As I said, Japan is a free country. Or, you don't know what freedom of religion is? You are all from China or something?

Enshrinement was not secret. newspapers and weekly had bunch of stories about their bios and even what their children doingm what kind of occupation, schiil grades, etc.

@Triring: After GHQ made a plan to demolish Yasukuni to make the site as Horce Race Sport Betting Site, Pope from Italy protested and plan was abolished. It is private. If some organization try to shut down, Yamaguchi Prefecture people will not be quiet. The majority of old souls were their relatives.

“It demonstrates again Japan’s erroneous attitudes toward the historical issues,” it added.

No argument there.

Tell me are you against Yushunkan only or are you against war museums in general because the narrative are basically the same in all including Yushunkan.

Other war museums don't run exhibits which are counter to the mainstream view of history. In the UK students learn all about the pitfalls of colonialism, in Australia they learn about the mistreatment of the Aborigines, in Japan they are taught that they waged a "glorious war", of which they were the victims. Enough said. These ministers made a dumb move

last enshrined soul is Y Matsuoka who died with TB in Sugamo in 1945 father in law of Abe's grand uncle yiether this year or last year

'It is NOT a shrine to "glorify war"'

I'd recommend popping into the museum on your next visit. It's true that people go to Yasukuni not to honour the vicious but to honour the victims. However, this museum is repulsive.

'Peace which China is jeapordizing with it's massive military buildup and territorial expansion program today right now'

Do you have some kind of alert telling you when an article regarding China appears? Your obsession with this country is truly disturbing.

'The world is getting sick and tired of this song and dance to deflect criticism for it's own current actions.'

The 'world' is getting sick and tired of it, eh? I think you'd do well to speak for yourself and not the planet. Your manic hatred for this country is hardly representative of the population of the planet.

"I'm glad that Hitler's tomb is basically under a dirt parking lot in Germany"

Russians have remains, maybe.

BTW 14 war criminals enshrinement in Yasukuni were enshrined SPECIFICALLY as those that died under international military tribunal after WWII as 昭和殉難者 .. So anyone think that they just happen to be included in 'normal' Japanese war died should stop think that.

a shrine is basically a funeral registry, like a wedding registry. It's just a list of names. No one can control spirits so just make a new list somewhere for the Class A, B and C's and purge Yasukuni from being used for political purposes and maybe Japan's luck will change.

He probably be PM a couple more times as long as he collect gaijins opposition more on Yasukuni. 1st Yamaguchi ken produced Ito was 6 tines PM. Yamaguchi ken based PM in Japan are more than half in J history.

I can do better, I can show you a ton. No doubt you'll dismiss them all as propaganda because you have none of your own - except from far-right websites perhaps. So here goes. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies http://www.jref.com/forum/threads/how-do-most-japanese-view-ww2-today.50901/ http://www.tofugu.com/2012/03/22/japanese-textbook-controversy/ https://educationinjapan.wordpress.com/education-system-in-japan-general/the-japanese-history-textbook-issue/

In middle school in the US I don't really remember much of studying WW2 so does that make it white washing of history by the Americans?

Well that explains why so many Japan apologists come from the US then.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33758721 Have a chat with Mr Matsumoto (who actually fought in World War 2, unlike you or Mr Abe. Then get back to me. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

OssanAmerica the 14 class A war criminals were included in the shrine at a later date than the original enshrined. this was clearly done in spite, these criminals were responsible for millions of deaths throughout asia and if they werent included there would probably be no protests today. they should be removed and put in a seperate place. we could clearly see which people would visit them and there true thoughts about Japans wartime aggression. now they conveniently hide behind the innocent people enshrined there while praying for the criminals that shouldnt be there.

wtfjapan

I doubt it considering the time line in which the adding of thier names were publisizied in 1979 but the whole humbumb start in 1988 as post before. Basically it's just another political ploy like all the other incidents PRC makes noise of.

Those A-class war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni were the reason for all of Japan's atrocities until 1945, and grass grows back unless you get the root out.

^ so you are 徳川康久 @newyork? Fortunately, I am atheist to don't care about souls, just the symbolism of venerating 14 convicted war criminals..

@sf2k: A majority of Japanese families have 2 religions except Komeito involVED FAMILIES. Shinto for festivals and temple for funerals. In their home, they have kamidana and butsudan, Shrines are often used as wedddings. Some use Church for wedding. This does not mean they are Christian. Japan did a variety of atroxity in other countries but we don;t hear ewligeous persecution. I thought Japanese are so ignorant on religeon, that they forgot to distinguish difference between Moslem, Hebrew, Christianity. In Japan rich people send their chidren to Catholic Universities and tell their daughter so and so is in Christian U. Asked katric? they say no Kirisuto Kyo daigaku.

I think they believe Japanese kids in school use only English and never read Japanese. Amn't I right?link witers

Let the deads rest in peace

Should Chinese leaders goto visit and salutes to the Korean hero Mr. Ahn Jung Geun, the assassin who assassinated Japanese colonial govonor and former PM Ito Hirobumi. At the same time as Japanese politicians visting that Yasukuni shrine. The city of Harbin has two sites, one in the railway station the other is a memorial hall. It is definitely a special person and special actions that lead to have two memorial sites in a city. The gallantry of matyr Mr.Ahn Jung Geun is telling a true heroic story who fought evils that deserves China and Koreas to show gratitudes. It was not a murder indeed.

Xi Jinping and the Commie Party is currently attempting to re-write history portray the People’s Republic of China (Communistic China) as "present at the creation of the postwar global order".

Of course, in reality, Mao was hiding in his cave waiting for his chance and to wage civil war against other Chinese and played no part in the creation of post-WWII world order.

They are trying to re-interpret it as being constructed around the constraining of Japanese power, cognisance of Japanese brutality, and punitive toward Japan.

Hence the propaganda war against Japan and it's portrayal as "Evil".

It might work to the Chinese people as they are so contained and control but foreigners and foreign governments are not supportive of Xi’s campaign to vilify the Japanese.

It's more about impressing their power onto the Chinese people.

Understand this is what is going on and everything else becomes a lot more clear.

@Christopher Glen

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33758721 Have a chat with Mr Matsumoto (who actually fought in World War 2, unlike you or Mr Abe. Then get back to me. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

His dialogue begins with "So if anyone said that there were no comfort women those were lies" and throughout, so his testimony was based on his false interpretation "Japan is denying the existance of Comfort Women". Yet this BBC article misapplied his testimony and extended one individual experience as a whole "Some are denying that Japan committed war atrocities, including forcing women in China, South Korea and South East Asia to be comfort women, or sex slaves for Japanese soldiers.". If you don't call this a strewman argument, what would you call it?

Yasukuni has become a hotspot for all tourist visitors visiting Japan and all opposition to the visit of Yasukuni should be abandoned completely as in a free society people are totally free to go to any place of their choice without any restriction.

“Some Japanese politicians chose this day to visit the shrine, which honors ‘Class A’ war criminals and glorifies the aggressive war,” the ministry said in a statement.

Does it really 'glorify' the aggressive war? I think the reason why the shrine was built was to appease the souls died in wars and to remind people of wars so as not to repeat the same thing. I'm not sure the real intention of the creation of the shrine, though.

@sfjp330

Mao actually specifically stated that the Japanese did not kill enough Nationalists at Nanking.

The rest of the usual posters need to learn a little about Shintoism. It's just a name in a register.

As to the big hoo-had about "war criminals" ... in most cases that is just a case of "victors getting to write the history".

If any of you are sincere about wanting to learn about actual Shinto beliefs instead of Chinese and American projection and propaganda, I am happy to discuss them.

But if you don't believe in souls and life after death, it's a bit silly to obsess over.

There is a distinguished LDP lawmaker who was related to a general who died in cave of IwoJima, Hollywood made a movie Letter from IwoJima.Until some American did research, no one knew his name. Likewise, we dun't know why they are visiting a shrine. BTW it has never been a gravesite. I know all people know but ,,,,,

"Denounce Jews religious services at Synagogue" sounds familiar?

That's what they are doing. Japan is a free country and under its law Yasukuni is a religion if you like it or not.

"Christians, you are not allowed to go to church, those organizations are the symbol of Imperialism, Crusade, religious wars and Inquisition." How stupid does that sound? If not, ban Christian churches in YOUR country, like Chinese do in their country.

In Japan, war dead people's families just received notification (Senshi Tsukoku) and families later asked a person who knew brush stroke writings to create KamiFuda and brought to a shrine. Not necessary religious like some people here complaining.Kamifuda was written in Japanese white paper (Hanshi) and they were small pieces. 1 hanshi made 8 pieces.

Yasukuni is a religious place and should be left alone, beside that case of war criminals there isn't really much controversy. The real issue here is the museum next to Yasukuni (Yūshūkan) which portrays history of world war 2 in a way that essentially frees all Japanese people from responsibility for wartime actions with a "they made me do it" kind of rhetoric. To put it simply, it's a place of old fashioned propaganda, where Japan is a victim not an offender, and where all the dirt had been carefully wiped under the carpet. Something really has to be done about this place, but whatever Shinzo Abe says about reconciliation, nothing is going to change while he's still in charge.

in Japan they are taught that they waged a "glorious war", of which they were the victims

Your beloved line, show us your source please.

Auhh, I looked into Mr. Matsumoto's testimony and found his earliest statements.

http://kanagawa.uketugu.org/uketugu-kanagawa/uketugu-kanagawa/news-17.pdf

If you pay attention to the date it's states June 13, 2010. Now let's look through this document. He talks about how he got his knowledge about the Comfort women. On page 6 and 7 he state he found the background of comfort women from a book written by YOSHIDA SEIJI .Yeah , right.

He also has a grudge against the Emperor system. His ending statement is "して日本は確実に天皇制の復活強化と、戦争への道を歩み始めていると言わざるを得ないと私は思っているのですが、皆さんはいかがでしょうか"

You just proved me right

You're welcome. I never thought I would be thanked for confirming that you are only following propaganda and have no idea of facts or what really happened.

Well here we go again: China distorting the facts and twisting History around again - as usual.

"Some Japanese politicians chose this day to visit the shrine, which honors ‘Class A’ war criminals and glorifies the aggressive war,” the ministry said in a statement.

-WRONG - Try again Mr. Foreign Minister. The Yasukuni Shrine was constructed in 1869 by the order of Emperor Meiji. The Shrine was established to Honor ALL Japanese who have died in the service of the Emperor.

“It demonstrates again Japan’s erroneous attitudes toward the historical issues,” it added. “China lodges its resolute opposition and strong dissatisfaction.”

-WRONG Again - The Shrine demonstrates Japan's respect to those who died for The Emperor, Their Families, AND Their Nation.

BTW Mr. Foreign Minister, What historical issues are you referring too?

Historical issues from The Bonin War for when the Shrine was established? The Satsuma Rebellion? The Russo-Japan War? The Sino-Japan War? The Pacific War? You have quite a few Historical Events to choose from.

The shrine does list the names of 2,466,532 men, women and children, including 1,068 war criminals; 14 of whom are considered A-Class, HOWEVER, there is not a single human body or human remains inside Yasukuni Shrine.

That's right - nobody is buried there.

Those War Criminals that China keeps pointing at are buried at their ancestral graves in their ancestral hometowns and NOT at Yasukuni Shrine.

Mr. Foreign Minister, please unblock your Google and do some "Historical Reasesrch" before popping a cork next time?

Gosh, this is why young people in China are so brainwashed & mislead by their own Theocratic Maoist Communist Government to hate the Japanese & the young Chinese will never learn the truth for why the Japanese really visit the Yasukuni Shrine and it's NOT to pay respects to War Criminals - it's to pay respects for those who died for Japan & to pray for World Peace.

I'm glad that Hitler's tomb is basically under a dirt parking lot in Germany, destined to be driven over every day by the typical German without a second thought. It's an interesting contrast to the shrines and statues in Japan.

A shrine is a list of people and up until 1988 was dedicated to non Class A's. I think most people didn't have a problem with that until Nakasone stepped in. That is really the only controversy and it would be a matter of having a separate shrine for those and return the original purpose of Yasukuni jinga to restore not only Yasukuni's reputation at long last, but also the true intentions of the Japanese people beyond the political realm.

@JoeintokyoAUG. 16, 2015 - 02:39PM JST Enshrinement was not secret.

Are you talking about the B and C criminals? The A criminals were initially enshrined in secret.

http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a024

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A class. Notoc I wrote newspapers and weeklies. I don't depend on link in which writers who don;t know how to digest gossip weeklies and opinion magazines such as Shincho, ChuohKoron, Gendai, RekishitoJinbutsu and more.

Kenny

As I had posted before, Yasukuni shrine can do what ever they want. It's separated and protected from the state under the constitution.Same with 昭和殉難者 since Japan is an independent country. I believe it was originally suggested by the citizens of Japan and was accepted by house of representatives after the SF peace treaty. I have not heard of any nation lodged a protest against this. (In which it will be a clear case of interference in domestic affairs)

Umm... and this is China business how?

Apolitical

Here are some links to war museums around the world. Tell me are you against Yushunkan only or are you against war museums in general because the narrative are basically the same in all including Yushunkan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_and_war_museums_in_the_United_States_by_state

http://www.warmuseums.nl/landindx.htm

http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/SI/SI_EN_3_1_1_1.jsp?cid=268131

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_War_of_Chinese_People's_Resistance_Against_Japanese_Aggression

JimizoAug. 16, 2015 - 04:26PM JST 'It is NOT a shrine to "glorify war"' "I'd recommend popping into the museum on your next visit. It's true that people go to Yasukuni not to honour the vicious but to honour the victims. However, this museum is repulsive.

How can it be repulsive if you've never even seen it? Veen there twice. Once with a WWII vet. Its a museum of military history nothing more and nothing less. You see the same kimd of things in any military museum anywhere,''

"Peace which China is jeapordizing with it's massive military buildup and territorial expansion program today right now'"

Do you have some kind of alert telling you when an article regarding China appears? Your obsession with this country >is truly disturbing.

Your persistently defending a totalitarian dictatorship is what's disturbing,

'The world is getting sick and tired of this song and dance to deflect criticism for it's own current actions.'

The 'world' is getting sick and tired of it, eh? I think you'd do well to speak for yourself and not the planet. Your manic >hatred for this country is hardly representative of the population of the planet.

Your manic defense of a country that persecutes its own citizens for advocating horrible concepts like "democracy" is disgusting, You have no idea how many people in how many countries think poorly of your country, Startig with many Chinese.

Regarding Japan’s attitudes towards China, let’s not forget the many billions in loan assistance which Japan has provided to China over many decades, and which China has eagerly taken to finance its development. It seems odd that China conveniently forgot past aggressions from Japan when billions of money was flowing its way. China’s continuing problems with its neighbors go far beyond its relations with Japan.

How time has changed. It may seem strange today but Mao Zedong discouraged public discourse about the Japanese invasion and waived reparations. During his reign, Nanking was far from becoming Chinese target for Japanese brutality. Why Japan became a easy target? This was when new communist leaders, transforming their country into a market economy, first began to face the problems of uneven growth, which included social unrest on a huge scale. Honoring the memories of Sino-Japanese War became main focus to the post-Cold War Chinese strategy of finding new foils internationally and fresh ideological legitimacy at home.

I will make a point to go to pray, again, and again, at Yasukini shrine, to both pray for the dead as well as to screw with the communists & Japan-haters. As I already have done. Btw, my dad was a WWII vet who lost many friends in the war: http://www.thebest-of.info/Q/jfq-aug091945.htm

Have you even cared to read the link you had posted?

They are opinion pieces like your posting. Tell me where is the proof that "Japan they are taught that they waged a "glorious war", of which they were the victims" as you posted. In middle school in the US I don't really remember much of studying WW2 so does that make it white washing of history by the Americans? They sure don't teach about the hull note or the Paris Peace Conference in detail.

We can read about it freely in Japan with various books published about it, pros and cons. That is why the first person was able to post her opinion, is it possible in SK or mainland china? No of course not because they are all censored before publishing. Go back and print you propaganda pamphlets somewhere else, please.

Those who believes in propaganda as history will never now what really happened.

You just proved me right. Thanks for your admission. I rest my case

“

It demonstrates again Japan’s erroneous attitudes toward the historical issues,”

No, it demonstrates the erroneous attitude by a select number (in this case three) of ministers who may or may not represent the attitude of Japan as a whole.

JoeinBejing

Yasukuni has no obligations to announce who were enshrined or not. They will answer when asked but they are not required to announce beforehand.

Did I miss the apology?

Those who believes in propaganda as history will never now what really happened.

While school pupils in Japan may read just one line on the massacre, children in China are taught in detail not just about the Rape of Nanjing but numerous other Japanese war crimes, though these accounts of the war are sometimes criticised for being overly anti-Japanese.

The same can be said about South Korea, where the education system places great emphasis on our modern history. This has resulted in very different perceptions of the same events in countries an hour's flying time apart.

These are very scary because they are only taught in government guided narratives and are indoctrinated in one way without being able to see both sides. In Japan we only teach what happened without giving any narratives so the ones who are interested can study on their own to reach their own conclusion like the author of first opinion peice had done.

I have spoken to people who had experience the war in both Japan and the US. My parents and relatives in Japan and teachers when I was in the US. When I see your posts I only see one narrative. So again i suggest you go back and just print your propaganda pamphlets, really.

@Kenny IyekawaAUG. 16, 2015 - 11:11PM JST

The souls aren't being venerated.

There's the start of the confusion.

(And they are not really "criminals", that was just a label the US gave them. I'd just translate that as, "individuals in a position and with capabilities able to obstruct American ambitions in Asia".)

Here's how it goes, people.

The souls have been purified. They are not "war criminals" any more. They are in their perfect divine form now. It's as simple as that. Nothing to worry about, they are not going to invade China again. That's the wonder of Shintoism.

The Commies and racists cannot make them impure and guilty again however much they try.

Of course, I am being a little trite but that's the way it is.

In the Middle Ages, or the MIddle Kingdom, their priests used to "send evil spirits" to afflict the enemy.

These days they use PR and propaganda campaigns.

That's the Chinese "magic spell" to try and stick guilt, shame and damage on innocent women and children.

That's how insane they are.

I think too, one has to consider core Buddhist values in this equation too. According to Buddhism, every individual has some virtue and all the collective virtue of all individuals is necessary for the sake of world enlightenment. It's not far from Christianity and forgiveness.

It's a shame China lacks any sort of religion beyond the Yuan ... and it's being devalued these days too.

sf2k

You'll need to straighten out your propaganda text since the so called A-class war criminals were enshrined in 1978 and was publicized in 1979. Nakasone issue is completely separate in which he sighed as Prime Minister of Japan which led to a debate of separation of church and state.

As for the Showa Emperor not visiting Yasukuni shrine his last visit was 1975 so it is again a separate issue with the so called A-class war criminals in general. Looks as if Showa Emperor did not approve of adding Shiratori who died in prison of natural causes after the tribunal comparing with Matsuoka who died before the trial began.

Joeintokyo?

You mean joeinBejing. Yasukuni is a shrine that honors people who had sacrificed their lives to this country and have 2,466,532 people enshrined from 1867 to 1951 like Ossan had posted above but you really don't care do you? You also probably don't care if the US had start a proxy war against Japan by funding the Fly Tiger mercenaries during the second sino-Japan war before Japan actually bombed Pearl Harbor.

What really eats me is insult by people during the Japanese customary time of remembrance of the dead, Obon paying respect to the ones who past away. Far right nationalists? No just plain people who pays respect to traditional rituals past down through generations.

"“Some Japanese politicians chose this day to visit the shrine, which honors ‘Class A’ war criminals and glorifies the aggressive war,” the ministry said in a statement."

14 Class-A War Criminals are enshrined mixed in with 2,466,532 people enshrined from 1867 to 1951. It is NOT a shrine specifically to honor the war criminals, and it is NOT a shrine to "glorify war". People come to pay respects to the dead ad pray for peace. Peace which China is jeapordizing with it's massive military buildup and territorial expansion program today right now- not 70 years ago. The world is getting sick and tired of this song and dance to deflect criticism for it's own current actions.

.

What Japan did is nothing worse than what the west did. If you criticize Japan you have to criticize all the other countries. But you choose to criticize only Japan, which tell your level of civility