China 'extremely concerned' about U.S.-Japan island talks

China, you locked your radar onto a Japanese ship. What did you expect would happen?

Why is China so "concerned"? Do they honestly think the United States is going to stand by while China expands it's empire by bullying all of it's smaller neighbors? Does China actually believe it's own propaganda and think the United States "needs" China or something?

Has a day passed that China is not "extremely concerned"? Extremely concerned that their expansionist policies are not working, that their bullying of Asia is not yielding the results they want, that the rest of Asia sees them as a threat and not a friend?

Well China, buy some ulcer medication and carry on being concerned! Why? Because it is clear that Japan intends to raise her military capacity in the coming years. The US will obviously stand by Japan to protect the disputed islands. The Philippines, Korea and Taiwan have US support as well to hold back your expansion.

Sadly this support does not extend to cover the nations in Central Asia that you are bullying. They are own their own or will be forced into the arms of Russia to offset your ambitions. Even more tragic is that people like the Uyghurs will continue to be repressed under your rule because they do not have the luxury of powerful friends to protect them.

But the #1 biggest reason China is "concerned" is that these conflicts are very important to their domestic policy. See when you have legions of poor, impoverished working people who now see a rising money class while they live 10 to a small room in Beijing and work for nothing, then you have a problem. Sooner or later these workers are going to be angry. Angry at the disconnection between state propaganda and reality. Angry that they suffer while others live in luxury. It is an ancient story for China.

Now add to that a rural population who still live in a virtual dark age. And they are also not happy about the disparity in wealth.

So how do you keep the masses under control? You find external enemies to distract them from the corruption and failure of their national leaders. And then you whip them up with history and your epic propaganda machine so that they are protesting Japan or angry at some other country instead of focusing their anger on their real enemy, their own government.

This is not limited to China. Many states do this. But sooner or later China's legions of poor, propagandized to believe in socialism, and suffering working classes are going to want a bigger share or they are going to rise to take it. Already we hear about upheaval in the rural regions. And then only what leaks out. This problem is bigger for China than they like to admit. And it is a big reason why they are looking for an external enemy.

The chinese are right to be "concerned". Their aggression is about to be put to a stop. The Senkakus are not china's sovereign territory.

It is a difference in sophistication level here. The US can say something without having to be brash about it. The Chinese have not yet learned this skill. They are all about saber rattle. But in this modern world when a non-violent state like Japan has more than adequate navy to render China's navy moot, this kind of sophistication is necessary if you want to get your way. China has a lot of growing up to do still in the political arena.

note to China, as long as you don't do anything stupid, nothing will happen. You think all your saber-rattling and huff and puffing will scare Japan and U.S.?

I read some great comments here or on another story (there are so many stories about this or something close to this issue anymore that it is hard to tell anymore). They must have been deleted.

Elbuda, No I don't feel sorry for China.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that the U.S. and Japan are in these discussions and have been in these discussions for a while. The urgency of the discussions has been pushed by China's recent (and historical) bad behavior.

Yet, China says it is extremely concerned.... China has shown a lot of ill will to its neighbors recently, and then it acts surprised and extremely concerned, which tells me their expressions of concern is only a game.

My take is that this was leaked so that China has an idea of what the US military policy is going forward. A warning without making a threat.

The Chinese never had any control over the islands. Even in 1950, the official Chinese stance regarding the Senkaku islands was that they were a part of the Yaeyama islands.

The Ryukyus "consist of three parts--northern, central, and southern. The central part comprises the Okinawa islands, whereas the southern part comprises the Miyako islands and the Yaeyama islands (Sento islets)."

What did the Chinese expect with all that saber rattling over the islands? Did they expect the United States to sit still? The United States isn't going to wait until the Chinese attack before coming up with a plan. This isn't Damansky Island and the year isn't 1969.

Bottom line folks, anyone who is not a Chinese official, Chinese capitalist or other person getting rich off China's wealth should take a cautionary view of China. That includes her vast majority of working poor.

China is an internationally immature state with some serious problems with reality. And that is dangerous to anyone who disagrees with them.

The only way to manage China is to put a massive collective wall up every time they step out of line. Asia needs to unite and show a solidarity against negative policies out of China. So Korea, Philippines, Taiwan etc... time to hook up with Japan and others to form a regional protective alliance. An APAC NATO with US support and Australia and NZ involved too.

That sends a definitive message to our expansionistic neighbors that their agenda is not our's and won't be.

China is a has-been. Just a bully. A paper tiger. It's time to break up the PRC into six separate countries, starting with a free Tibet. Come on. Let's free Tibet. Let's give the Chinese something internal to worry about rather than some measly little islands in the South China Sea and the East China Sea.

The best defense is a good offense. Just like China is trying to tell you that the Senkakus are part of China, let's remind them that Tibet is not part of China. Let's meddle into their internal affairs and break that behemoth down into six separate countries, which will insure peace and prosperity for the world.

All three of the individuals that you cite were just that: Individuals. Two out of three of these individuals confused themselves with the state that they represented and all three fell under the aegis of "enemies of my enemy."

Let's consider Kuwait in the equasion, shall we? This state's experience is certainly more analogous and the US has nothing like the relationship with Kuwait that it has with Japan. My family would fight, and shed blood, for Japan. There is no doubt about that, and that's just on a personal level. When we get to the government level, there are a few key allies that the US has in the world. Japan is quite high on that list, certainly higher than Kuwait, and we saw how that went. The US has seen how this "well, let's just let the tiger take a LITTLE bite" thing works out and has no interest in going through it again.

There are some that might say that there isn't unanimity in the USA. That's true. Hell, only 1/3 of the country supported the Revolutionary War and that's about historically what it has taken to win one. Very few Americans at this point fail to see China as a threat. Perhaps there's not the jingoism that we've seen in previous conflicts, but there's a resigned understanding that this China thing probably isn't going to end well. In fact, there's an emerging thread of "hell, it's not like they are getting any weaker and if this thing is inevitable, maybe sooner is better than later" starting to emerge in both Japan and the US. It's hardly bloodthirst - it's more like "let's just get it over with so that we can move on"...

Does anybody feel sorry for big Asian bully China???

sucking china is so scary that it will be beaten up by the US and Japan

“No outside pressure will affect the resolve and determination of the Chinese government and people to maintain territorial sovereignty.”

China can not maintain what they have not had for at least 120 years, and probably all of history, even after Japan's defeat in WWII.

Let's speak Chinese" China should have no concern, since it is internal matter of other states". China empire was not born overnight, according to Real ancient China. Wars, invasions, ethnics cleansing has been used to expand the empire under the predominant of the Hans (Chan) till today. An obvious example is Tibet that has no voice for the sake of Communist China empire. The claim and the map has been redo, altered as time goes by. Good China should invite the ICJ and seeking diplomatic channels in resolving all territorial disputes, thus being a real constructive member state, rather than an exploiter/bully under the pretext of bilateral gun aiming at other side of negotiation. Giving is a high moral responsibility than taking.

For 60+ years the CCP have lived in their own isolated reality bubble, agreeing among themselves that everything they do is right regardless of outcomes, and feeling safe in this belief because they had a huge captive and compliant population who do what they are told 'or else'.

Trouble is, the CCP is discovering 'you can't bring that shit to the big city' of international affairs and diplomacy, and expect other nations to kowtow to their whims like their own people have had to do under their threats of physical violence.

It must be a rude awakening to step out of the CCP reality bubble into the real world to find a world of people who won't do as they are told by the CCP, or believe every pronouncement of the CCP is gold, and which has the affront to name them for the petty tyrants and bullies they are (and the ability to fight back).

The CCP has to learn you can't win respect by waving wads of cash around or by threatening others; it should be asking itself, 'What have we done for Asia and the world in the last 60+ years to earn their respect?'

Those of us who are old enough to remember this Dance with the old Soviet Union are watching China trying to primp itself as the MK II Version. It's it's. It's a rank amateur by comparison. That does not mean it is not dangerous. It bears watching

IRobinMar. 22, 2013 - 12:08PM JST The Chinese had controled the islands for about 600 years

And yet there is no evidence of this constantly repeated claim.

and never agree to the occupation of Japan.

They never agreed to it because they didn't consider the Senkakus theirs. Neither side mentioned it in the Treaty of Shimonoseki because nobody cared. Even Chinese maps from the 1950s/1960s show them as being Japanese. China's claim is concocted and pure nonsense.

Please ask the American people whether they'd like fight for Japan instead of imaging this by yourelf.

The US has a defense treaty with Japan that goes back to 1960. Defense treaties and security agreement are made because of mutual or collective shared security concerns. If China starts a war with Japan, or other U.S. allies, they will be starting a war with the United States. It doesn't get more simple than that.

I will keep doing this until someone provide reasonable views or been deleted by this system.

IRobin

The Chinese had controlled the islands for about 600 years

No, They have not!!!

IRobin

Please ask the American people whether they'd like fight for Japan instead of imaging this by yourself.

We are going to solve the issue by law not power. Unless China shows its aggression, even we will have no situation to ask American people as you said. Of course no one wants to have a war.

SuperLib

China and Japan need to work out some kind of sharing agreemen. They can work together to explore and extract the natural resources. Neither side is going to give 100% control to the other so that's just not an option. Find a different way. Turn a negative into a positive and build a bridge instead.*

Sounds civilized and nice. I understand. I wish your solution were fitting in this situation. But not this case.

Historically, Lawfully with actual many documented proof even from China, Senkaku is 100% Japan Territory. If China's aggression let China get what they want. If any country bring an old map from 13 century, 15 century whatever , then send their military to some nation which has governed that island more than 100 years lawfully and the world treaty admitted that legality. (SF Treaty) That will be a big mistake. That kind of example should not be created. It will make laws are weaker than power and lobbying with a deceptions. The world will be mess.

San Francisco treaty article 3 indicates that which country owns Senkaku. China said nothing before the oil was found.

This is nothing personal to Chinese people. The door is opened. If China thinks the treaty from San Francisco in 1951 has some error, instead of sending their warships and planes to Japan territory. They should go ICJ. China must know The Vienna Convention on the law of treaties article 65. But the fact is China has 0% chance to win if they challenge Japan by law. When they lose, they have no way to explain to their people since they have release so many tactful deceptions for this case to convince Chinese people. It is no longer only the issue for those rocks for China.

China, Do it lawfully. Do not act as if China is an out law country, please.

Mean while, Japan should focus on seeking the resolution with Taiwan for the both nations for the stability of Far East.

An APAC NATO with US support and Australia and NZ involved too.

According Marcos of Phillipines, Saddam of Irag and Osama of Afgan experience, they were darlings of US before who were armed and supported. Later on they shared cruel fate for unwanted goods. History has showed US foreign policy is based on fair weather friend. US will dump their darlings when they are no longer necessary.

Many Asians have no confidence about buying expensive US military. Their perception is US is selling junks for profiteering with the expense of their service men. If they want more market, they have to sell more realiable and less expensive ones.

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/29/why_isn_t_india_buying_american_fighter_jets

Au and NZ are prospering with their commodities export to PRC. They are not willing to offend their major customer. They want to distinguish between Stragedic interest and Commercial interest. It is questionable about their commitment and reliabity. Their participation is largely symbolic. It has nothing to do with the outcome of any conflict.

Another problem of APAC has there are many nations can change their stand. China is a champion of Bribaries. Asean was impotent to disscuss about territory dispute because of host nation Cambodia bias toward China.

When the right price is being paid, many of APAC nations will betray their Allies. At the moment, China is buying friends in Africa and Central Asia. UN has never successful for condemning China human rights record. The reason is Chinese pay checks is sweeter than US fruitless persuation to the voting nations. At the end, Money talk! Even US congress is heavily lobbied by powerful Chinese businessmen from PRC.

It is hard for US congress or president to offend their banker who is supplying their pay checks.

China will never fly a flag over those Island's. Japan will.

Unconditionally and without a doubt, Japan will benefit from the TPP, simply because Japan needs this as a precondition to war. Abe knows that China will continue its demands for the Senkakus, which have been Japanese territory since the 1800's and which were never contested until a few decades ago simply because everyone knows they are Japanese islands.

Japan is now in the process of re-militarizing its society, its industries and its agricultural economy. Consequently, Japan needs to be in a position where it can import everything it needs to function in a wartime environment. Having free access to the agricultural and military-industrial might of all TPP countries ensures that Japan can devote itself entirely to defeating China in the Battle of the Senkakus.

With its superior technology and military expertise, Japan will annihilate the PLA navy and air force, castrating any future military aggression from China against its neighbors in the East China Sea or the South China Sea. That is the real purpose of the TPP. All members of the TPP have agreed to this, and this is the will of the people.

Surf O'Holic

The Senkakus are not china's sovereign territory.

You are correct, but they are also not Japan's sovereign territory either and even the US agrees on that point. Both sides need to sit down and discuss this like adults. Or get an impartial third party ruling.

I think China has some cause to be concerned, just 60 years ago, the Japanese Empirial Army went into China and killed a fraction of its population. We all know the War of Terror of the American Regime, they claim there is WMD and go in kill another soverign government and take its oil... all in the name of "Liberation".

We need a strong Japan, strong minded Japan not to let the Americans push us around.

lol @ nationalistic copy & pasting.

China and Japan need to work out some kind of sharing agreemen. They can work together to explore and extract the natural resources. Neither side is going to give 100% control to the other so that's just not an option. Find a different way. Turn a negative into a positive and build a bridge instead.

China will not be a push-over, so watch out Japan and the US! China's allies are trigger-happy H. Korea and Russia, are they not?

It's just a few rocks - is it really worth all this?

Why not just give them to a poor country like Tuvalu and have done with it all?

@House Atreides,

The Chinese had controled the islands for about 600 years and never agree to the occupation of Japan.

Please ask the American people whether they'd like fight for Japan instead of imaging this by yourelf.

I will keep doing this until someone provide reasonable views or been deleted by this system.

IRobin, thats some of the most rational and historically correct opion I'd seen thus far on this forum. Thank you!