politics

China, Japan trade barbs over radar-lock near disputed isles

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By Michael Martina

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i wonder how far that chinese government will go with their culture of unethical lies. they are capable of shooting at japanese and then say "it wasn't me".

11 ( +14 / -3 )

"He started it!" "No, HE started it!" Even if China seems to be the primary aggressor here, this whole thing is getting ridiculously tedious and almost juvenile.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

1)China vs Japan

Chinaese defense ministry, in a faxed statement issued late on Thursday, said Japanese remarks do not match the facts. The Chinese ships radar, it said, had maintained regular alerting operations and did not use fire control radar.

2) China vs USA

The official newspaper of the Communist Party of China has rejected claims the country was involved in hacking U.S. news agencies The New York Times (NYT) and Wall Street Journal (WSJ).

The common denominator for both stories listed above -PRC is not willing to take ANY responsibilities for their own actions. They think the world is stupid and they are acting like a spoiled brat. Therefore, I want PRC removed from the Security Concil Seat of UN until they can behave like an adult. PRC needs to go to rehab.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Agree that PRC is the least credible of the two parts. It has been to much disinformation and routine denials from China over time. Why should anyone trust anything that they say? Here is in interesting example of an attempt to be objective. Its an article at the BBC web sight which have the decency to try to leave it to the reader to make up their own mind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21290349

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Is it possible for the Japanese to prove it without giving away secrets? (Answers from people who know only please...)

5 ( +5 / -0 )

scotcheggFeb. 08, 2013 - 04:38PM JST

Is it possible for the Japanese to prove it without giving away secrets? (Answers from people who know only please...)

I believe so. Otherwise, Japan does not insist this over and over. They should have a good proof as well as US has a good proof.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If JMSDF releases the video or audio recording during the event within CIC, you'll see and hear a siren clamoring in the background. You'll probably also hear a siren yelling "Battle Stations, this is not a drill" on the load speakers.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

They can trade barbs, just don't trade missiles and stuff of that sort. They may leave a mark.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Which government do you trust, Japan or China? Which people do you trust, Japanese or Han-Chinese?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

One of the most important aspect in cold war is patience. Sad to say the most peaceful way to solve this issue is economic warfare as dialogue in my opinion at least for now is pretty much useless but comparing to bullets and bombs it's the better option and despite with all these "close encounters", I believe military from both sides has been firmly ordered not to fire the first shot but there's a limit in one's patience and I can't imagine the outcome.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

PRC is the less credible party here in both the hacking and radar lock cases. Expect more of these denials as the situation escalates.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Let's forget about truth and rightfulness for a bit and consider the tactics.

China is often quite skilful in the tactics on these disputes, but this time their response has been poor.

They shouldn't have gone head to head with the Japanese on the fire control radar bit. A head to head claim favors Japan (I suspect even in many Chinese's eyes).

They should have accepted the FCR bit (even if, speaking hypothetically, it isn't true), because they just aren't going to win there. Maybe admit operator error caused by stress.

Then play the victim card by blowing up the tracking angle. No doubt the Japanese were tracking as part of regular surveillance. Play up the fact the Japanese provided no track data.

Since no one except maybe Chinese and Koreans will believe the Japanese did something uber aggressive, there's no point in trying that. Instead, play weak (something China is quite good at) by pointing out the Chinese fleet doesn't have as much at-sea time as the Japanese fleet and thus can get unsettled by tracking and surveillance activities a more sea-experienced fleet might take in stride. Then suggest the Japanese should understand this and be more restrained about poking a fleet taking baby-steps into the broader world...

At least use good tactics, China... Hah...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Actually do the Chinese have Radar technology on their sail boats yet?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

At least use good tactics, China... Hah...

I agree, this would have been a much better way for China to handle this.

However, that would have required China to be flexible. And, the Chinese have staked everything on inflexibility, to the point that even when it benefits them, they are unable to use it.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The whole turn of events shows that the political side and the military side is lacking communication with each other. This is never a good thing and can only mean more problems lies ahead.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

the chinese can't be trusted, unlike the good old LDP....ummm,hmmm.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

hmmm ever wonder how far Chinese government can do to harass Japan and other neighboring nations? Stop wondering anymore, they could go as far as doing the first strike and accuse Japan/other neighbors of shooting first. How? their government even murdered its own people(all marked in their history, Chinese are all slaves by their own government) how much more about murdering foreign nationals that aren't Chinese?

wake up everyone! every news/allegations that are made in China are also fake(not just their products). Their very souls are all fakes, I hope Japan would be even more cautious that Chinese are doing these things now (Like pointing weapons to their military ships).... Well let us be reminded of how world war II started. Japan bombed US forces in Hawaii EARLY in the morning, right after sending a declaration of war letter to US president. China could do the same or worse. They might just nuke Japan right after sending a declaration of war... I hope every neighboring nation that feels threatened by China knows this.... Anything can happen anytime. Greed knows no limits. Even their rulers knows they would lose but in their minds, it's all about money and resources. Well, when you think about that Air pollution problem too, now China is selling fresh air. HAHA >.<

1 ( +4 / -3 )

wake up everyone! every news/allegations that are made in China are also fake(not just their products).

Always check and compare it with chat links in Hong Kong.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No one is firing nukes at Japan yet - MAD (from the US) makes sure of that, and surely even PRC leadership is not that stupid.

Love how the press ministry woman dodged the question yesterday - did you all see that? And now on TV the Cs are saying the Js made up the entire story? Crazy.

I've had drinks with JSDF guys and they were the most sincere (and buff!!) guys on the planet. There were US servicemen in the same bar (this was in Okinawa, I'm not from US), and the US were making a right joke of themselves in comparison. Kudos to the JSDF guys!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Oh, that is dangerous and they are adults, not children carrying mass destruction weapons.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This time the PRC will not so easily get away with it. They can lie to their people about it (because they dictate the media) but they won't be able to lie to the world.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

scotcheggFeb. 08, 2013 - 04:38PM JST

Is it possible for the Japanese to prove it without giving away secrets? (Answers from people who know only please...)

I believe so. Otherwise, Japan does not insist this over and over. They should have a good proof as well as US has a good proof.

See, that's why I was very clear in asking only people who have some expertise to answer. You clearly don't so why do you feel the need to offer your uninformed 'reckon'? It's not worth your time or mine!!!

Anybody who knows what kinds of logs are kept on US or Japanese ships regarding electronic signal detections?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan should tone down the complaints. Be silent. Continue to be present directly in the path leading to the area to block passage of China's ships. China will either confront and expose themselves to global ridicule or back down while whining to the ears of the UN which will again expose them to public ridicule.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

How do you know the PRC is lying?

Easy, the PRC reps opened their mouthes.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Japan should provide proof for its accusations that China used fire control radar and locked onto the Japanese ship.

Also, Japan need to explain why their ships were so dangerously close to a routine Chinese naval exercise?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Also, Japan need to explain why their ships were so dangerously close to a routine Chinese naval exercise?

How is 3 kilometers dangerously close?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

How is 3 kilometers dangerously close?

3 km is not dangerously close if you are playing with slingshots as a kid. but 3 km is dangerous when it involves military naval ships and their exercise.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I teach a little over 40 people in the business field every week, and make the rounds with a few dozen more. I have to introduce the topic of China to most of my students as they are largely ambivalent about it unless their company is planning some marketing in that area. Their interest goes about as far as how they are going to use it in their mock presentations as a potential customer. When I explain to them how China is really not a market that has great potential just yet, they are surprised, sure, but promptly shrug and move on to the next class subject.

So, as far as this "Hatred With No Boundary!" goes...I judge it more around "Mildly put off", at best.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Chinese government's actions at present are seen as a trial to incite war. And it seems that only you do not know about the recent aggressive actions of the Chinese military in the sea and on land.

As for the hatred, schools in Japan do not teach hatred towards the country's neighbors. Unlike the nationalistic history education focusing at large on the evil Japan introduced in 1992 by the government of China.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

With Japan po'ed at China and Russia, three nationalists demonstrate in front of Russian embassy, while the only thing done against China are meek Japanese government protests at the PRC government. But meanwhile, another huge anti-Korean demonstration is scheduled at Shin Okabu which will involve thousands of Japanese people. I don't get it. Japan is in the eve of war with China (with Chinese mass rioting against Japanese in China), and Russia have huge chunks of islands that Japan claims. Yet there are hardly any public protests against China and Russia. Instead the Japanese public seem to take out all their frustrations on ethnic Koreans in Japan who have lived peacefully in Japan for over 70 years. This only proves Japan can't say a thing against those who appear stronger then them, but Japanese can only pick on those who can't fight back. tsk tsk.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

With Japan po'ed at China and Russia, three nationalists demonstrate in front of Russian embassy, while the only thing done against China are meek Japanese government protests at the PRC government. But meanwhile, another huge anti-Korean demonstration is scheduled at Shin Okabu which will involve thousands of Japanese people

Chucky. If you"re referring to Zaitokukai's demonstrations of Shin Okubo (Korean town), we're talking about a few dozen or so that 99.99% of Japanese population ignores. The said organization tries to get media attention but they are limited to Youtube.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

PRC is pressing hard to see changes on the Pacifist constitution.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I mean 3 countries pressing will be enough to make changes on it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

why Japanese fleet followed China's vessel? Why Japanese battle ships traveled so far and were so close to China's territory? What they want to do?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

scotcheggFeb. 08, 2013 - 09:30PM JST

scotcheggFeb. 08, 2013 - 04:38PM JST Is it possible for the Japanese to prove it without giving away secrets? (Answers from people who know only please...)

I believe so. Otherwise, Japan does not insist this over and over. They should have a good proof as well as US has a good proof.

See, that's why I was very clear in asking only people who have some expertise to answer. You clearly don't so why do you feel the need to offer your uninformed 'reckon'? It's not worth your time or mine!!!

Anybody who knows what kinds of logs are kept on US or Japanese ships regarding electronic signal detections?

Should I disclose what I know to you? Neh... I am not that stupid as you think, dude.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is a test for Communist Chinese Government. How much they can control over Chinese Military?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It’s very convenient that Japan accused both Russia and China at about the same time. Coincidence I think not. J govt has been stirring up the tension and using a smearing tactic against China for their own benefits. Russian planes entered the Japanese air space for “only about a minute!”, and conveniently at about the same time J govt announced that they will have a treaty talk with Russia. In China case, if it was true that China used weapons-targeting radar at a Japanese military ship, China would not have taken days to deny the incidence ever happened. Either Japan or both China and Russia lied to the public. How do we find out the truth? But think carefully though, who has the most to gain, not Russia and China. And, who has been portraying as a victim here and trying to gain public sympathy, of course Japan. As Chinese media put it, “Since Japan often seizes opportunities to exaggerate these kinds of incidents to sway public opinion, the legitimacy of Japan's arguments has come under question.” I think the truth lies within Japan.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sometimes I think the Chinese are our friends. Abe-san now has plenty of reasons to change the pacifist constitution. Thank you sooo much!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I live in Canada and visit the US regularly. We have the same culture, and the television shows in the US are fed into Canada as well. Do not kill thie messenger! :)

a. In the US this 2013, American ppl do not trust Japan! Why? They never forget about the Pearl Harbor attack.

b. In one of my postings which received tons of Negative rating! that is good. lol, I said that: Japan is being pushed out of China! and even though Japan is then now trying to be nice/nicer to South East Asian countries, that they will eventually not respect Japan for they also remember the past atrocities by Japan there. And that being pushed out of China now will earn less respect for Japan in those countries even though Japan is trying to help them economically.

Those who are young cannot understand this psychology and chess game. But the reality is: China, Korea and Russia "hate" Japan. Again, do not kill this messenger, and other S.E. countries will also lose respect for Japan.

so again, the above questions: who can you trust more?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@cabadajeFeb. 08, 2013 - 11:47PM JST

I teach a little over 40 people in the business field every week, and make the rounds with a few dozen more. I have to introduce the topic of China to most of my students as they are largely ambivalent about it unless their company is planning some marketing in that area. Their interest goes about as far as how they are going to use it in their mock presentations as a potential customer. When I explain to them how China is really not a market that has great potential just yet, they are surprised, sure, but promptly shrug and move on to the next class subject.

So, as far as this "Hatred With No Boundary!" goes...I judge it more around "Mildly put off", at best.

Man, day one when I step into my classroom I will teach my students to throw me out IF I do not teach them RATIONAL THINKING. I will be laughed off the stage if my students find me teaching them nationalist thinking, narrow minded thinking. The ART OF THINKING requires Impartiality, however distasteful the facts are. Yes, my students justify throwing me out of my classroom if I am an incompetent teacher!

Among the RULES of Clear Thinking is not to jump into conclusions based on Soundbites especially uttered by politicians selling their crap. If there is INSUFFICIENT information, I would advise my students to WITHHOLD JUDGEMENT until all the facts are in. IF there is a PATTERN of insufficient information one can however reasonably INFER who is most probably the aggressor and who is in fact the victim. History will be a very good guideline! Think WWII !

Using the above art of clear thinking, I would advise my students that Japan is in fact the aggressor. Two factors: Japan helicopter incident near enough to Chinese ship endangering the ship, so Chinese ship fire radar lock. Second incident, another ship radar lock Japanese ship. Fact: ALL these two incidents occur NEAR Japanese navy and air bases. THE JAPANESE KNOWS THEY HAVE THE UPPER HAND HERE WITH SWAMPS OF SHIPS AND AIR ASSETS NEARBY! THIS IS 'TER*RSM' BY THE JAPANESE! THIS PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE shows Japan is in fact the aggressor. People must be reminded this radar lock WARNING IS NECESSARY BECAUSE IF JAPANESE SHIP OR HELICOPTER FIRES A MISSILE, IT WILL BE LESS THAN 10 SECOND AWAY BEFORE THE CHINESE SHIP IS HIT! The Chinese ship is advising the Japanese to NOT repeat this crap again, to BACK OFF! There is Clear & Imminent Danger, so the Chinese ship is JUSTIFIED, BUT SOMEHOW Japan AGAIN manage to use her PR skill to hookwink the public.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

So let me get this straight,

Japan has Isle disputes with China, Taiwan, Russia, and South Korea?

And now Abe and right wingers want the US muscle to settle all of the disputes with their neighbors?

Why can't the Japanese resolve they own Isle disputes instead of constantly dragging in the US?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

want the US muscle to settle all of the disputes with their neighbors?

NO.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Reasons why the US will not get involved militarily in any Isle JAPANESE disputes especially with China -

1) Any resolution against China and Russia brought before to the UN Security Council will be vetoed by Russia and China, who have permanent member status.

2) South Korea, a strategic military US ally, would vehemently campaign against any US military involvement in the region due the Dokdo/Takeshima Isle dispute.

3) US, Asian (Japanese & Korean), and European businesses would loses billions from investments and the lack of economic activities in China and Japan.

4) China is largest foreign holder of US Debt and the 2nd largest trading partner.

5) After a decade of War in Afganistan and Iraq, the US public has no appetite for another war.

6) Asian Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, will oppose any US military involvement in any hypothetical war between JAPAN and CHINA. Asian Americans have more influence and sway with US lawmakers than right wing warmogers in Japan. This should come as no surprise but Asians (Japanese, Filipinos, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese,etc) in America really get along.

America will continue to advocate for a peaceful resolution in Japanese Isle disputes. Japan should heed America's position because Russia or China might call Japan's bluff - and no reasonable person wants that.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Kobuta ChanFeb. 09, 2013 - 02:14AM JST

This is a test for Communist Chinese Government. How much they can control over Chinese Military?

Excellent post. You are ahead of everyone.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I want *PRC removed from the Security Concil Seat of UN until they can behave like an adult. PRC needs to go to rehab.

global watcher, youreally think you have this kind of power? you are funny, the fact is you don't, period.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Any resolution against China and Russia brought before to the UN Security Council will be vetoed by Russia and China, who have permanent member status

well said bannadcctasm

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

One of the problems of China is apparent lack of communication between China’s civilian and military leadership. There is a disconnection between China's military and civilian leadership and sometimes you have to wonder who is in command and in charge. This is the main reasons why Japan needs to improve high-level dialogue with China on military issues for more transparency. They need to know who controls the Chinese military and who has the ultimate authority, and there is doubt that it is President Xi Jinping and the civilian leadership. The recent incident of radar locking raises questions about the role of its Chinese military, as other top civilians apparently were unaware of the military action. The civilian leadership appeared to be unaware of aggressive actions by Chinese naval ships in recent years.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Article states: "China’s defense ministry, in a faxed statement issued late on Thursday, said Japan’s remarks “do not match the facts”. The Chinese ship’s radar, it said, had maintained regular alerting operations and “did not use fire control radar.”

Both countries continue their propanganda without disclosing factual evidence. Why don't Japan and China release facts based on real evidence of what ocurred in allegation of Chinese military ship locking their radar. Japan so far just continue to to say "We cannot accept China’s explanation.” Well, Japan, provide evidence.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

mano2012FEB. 09, 2013 - 03:27AM JST In the US this 2013, American ppl do not trust Japan! Why? They never forget about the Pearl Harbor attack.

You're kidding, right?

A quick Google search did not produce anything like the 2013 opinions you mention, but according to a 2012 Committee of 100 poll, 67-85% of Americans now see China as a serious or potential military threat to the United States, while a 2012 Gallup poll found that Americans consider China to be a 'far more worrisome' military threat than North Korea, Afghanistan & Iraq put together.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But the reality is: China, Korea and Russia "hate" Japan.

Speaking about Russia, feel free to back you desperate statement by valid proofs.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We have proven their (china) lying statement. See is to believed go to mischief reef and scarborough shoal. If you will ask them they will tell you the structure they build is just only a fishermens shelter, but now its a military garrison. Philippines is bind to the rules of UNCLOS we respect the international rule of law. But for China they have their own law with baseless claim, the funny thing is They were also assignatory in the UNCLOS. And geographically speaking the map can tell the truth. And guess what do you know we have hardliner rebels in our country ITS because of chinese financial and logistical support

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But the reality is: China, Korea and Russia "hate" Japan.

Speaking about Russia, feel free to back you desperate statement by valid proofs.

Duh! You are confusing btw trades and diplomacy. USSR had a big war with Japan in early 20th century. Pres. Medvedev visited the disputed northern islands a couple years ago, AFTER he met Pres. Hu in Beijing. Coincidence? Maybe. maybe not.

If you have been reading all kinds of posts which I collected many links of the history of Diaoyu.. in the late 19th century there was a talk of taking Diaoyu and the Japan foreign ministry said: wait, those islands have already Chinese names, they belong to them. One argue about this and that till the cows come home about Japan has the administration etc.. and forgetting about Potsdam agreement etc...

the key here, this 2013: it shows Japan's imperialistic behavior! It proves again, unlike Germany, Japan NEVER atoned its past atrocities.

so yeah..your question about Russia v. Japan.. you think about it.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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