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China pledges to defend territory after Japan says it will buy islands

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© 2012 AFP

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Seriously, This world doesn't have enough problems already and now two mature countries are calling names and throwing stones over some rocks in the pacific. How about everyone sits down and talks things out rather than acting like its a grade school playground. Maybe its just me because I am an outsider but its seems this whole situations is making both of the parties involved look like petty little children.

13 ( +19 / -8 )

"We cannot help but ask where is Japan trying to lead Japan-China relations to?"

Into the abyss?

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

The current China communist goverment spokesman continue to claim that "the Senkaku/Diayou islands have been a important part of Chinese territory since the ancient times". If this is the case, will China say Tibet has been important part of Tibetan territory since the ancient times? It is generally agreed that even in China, Tibet was independent prior to the Yuan Dynasty and that Tibet has been ruled by the China only since 1951 by force. Many Western countries agreed that Tibet was independent from 1912 to 1950. For China, what makes Senkaku/Diayou different than Tibet?

20 ( +27 / -7 )

Which might also help to explain this (not that Clinton is nearly as respected around the world as she would like to think).

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in China this week rather than at the Democratic National Convention, and she's not getting nearly as warm a welcome as the party faithful might have given.

Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping, regarded as the nation's next leader, did not show up for a press conference with Clinton this morning.

"Clinton's scheduled talk this morning with Vice President Xi Jinping had been called off by the Chinese side," Time's Hannah Beech explains, so Clinton had another press conference with the Chinese foreign minister in which she "sidestepped a question about whether Xi's cancellation might reflect tensions between the world's two biggest economies at a time when competing territorial claims in waters off China have marred the People's Republic's relations with its maritime neighbors."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/avoiding-dnc-hillary-clinton-gets-snubbed-in-china/article/2507027#.UEeQbmzCz8B

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Guess what China? Its not your territory to defend. Attack Japan in anyway and you will be the aggressor and we will have every right to use any means to defend our territory!

19 ( +29 / -10 )

If they have been so important since ancient times then why does nobody live there?

16 ( +23 / -7 )

Well I hope Mr Ishihara is going to don the old Khakis and IJA cap and defend from the front what he has been working so hard to bring about. China has every right to ask this;

“We cannot help but ask where is Japan trying to lead China and Japan relations to,”

This is a very poor move by Japan.

sfjp330

I don't see any relevent correlation between the Senkakus and Tibet, that is a totally different matter than this.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

“We cannot help but ask where is Japan trying to lead China and Japan relations to,”

They will lead relations to the status quo, I think. Now if the Tokyo governor had gotten these islands, then if would have been more interesting.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This ongoing fiasco is like watching two children arguing over a toy. The only way it can be resolved is by establishing common heritage.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Give to the North Koreans.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

A dog barking out of fear.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Why does this dictatorship on the mainland want to take Japans islands? Divert attention from lack of democratic elections?

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Many oils there...

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I would be rather Poor and have land than being rich with no land. Sorry China, You never got that Island.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

pro-Beijing activists

activists are good guys

Japanese nationalists

nationalists are bad guys

AFP can't use the term Chinese nationalist because ...

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Meanwhile, they can plan for Senkaku Disney. If China plays its cards right, they can get discount tickets.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Japanese government: "We bought it, now it's ours, case closed."

Voice of reason: "How can you 'buy' something whose ownership is in dispute by three governments? Isn't that the equivalent of 'receiving stolen property.?"

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

“The Chinese government is monitoring developments closely and will take necessary measures to defend its national territorial sovereignty.”

So, is it going to be game-on or what? Who's going to drop the gloves first?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“We cannot help but ask where is Japan trying to lead China and Japan relations to,” said foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei"

I think the J-govt is helping the C-govt avoid mass rioting and anti-govt demonstrations by the rabid Chinse nationalist crowd, the group that has grown up on Japan hating Patriotism Education. You know, the one that the people in Hong Kong are trying to avoid because they feel it;s propaganda brainwashing.. This seething crowd espouses the 愛国無罪 concept, any act of Patriotism is not a Crime. Hence ramming Japanese ships, throwing rocks at the Japanese Embassy, smashing Japanese cars and restaurants is all "OK", not only are such demonstrators not criminals, but they are heroes. The underlying risk is that it is he Chinse Govt that determines whatis a crime and what is not. If hypothtically, some hardnosed Japanese governor bought the Senkakus and built something there, even something as useful as a dock, weather observatory maybe even shelter and medical faciliyties to assist fishermen in distress from Japan, aiwan and China, trhe rabvid J-hating crowd would demand the Chibese govt start a war. The Govt of course doesn;t want to start a war, not only would it wreck their economic and trade relations with Japan, a sentiment shared by the Japanes govt, but it would also ruin their slow territorial advancement over the East and South China Seas, as all of Asia would be up in Arms. The alternative, if the crowds do turn on the Chinese govt is to pull another tianemen square and run them over, an act that would bring global scorn and sanctions on China and again ruin their economic program. Seen from these points of view, the J-govt may well be doing the C-govt a favor for the sake of stability.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Anyone else tired of vague governmental threats and warnings?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Voice of reason: "How can you 'buy' something whose ownership is in dispute by three governments? Isn't that the equivalent of 'receiving stolen property.?"

Koga bought it from the government during the early 1900's. Kurihara(current owners) bought from Koga during 80's. They all had deeds. They all paid property taxes. Was that an illusion or is that what the international legal scholars coin "peaceful, effective and continuous display of administration and authority?". (Sovereignty)

2 ( +9 / -7 )

If they have been so important since ancient times then why does nobody live there?

Because its not necessary for someone to live somewhere for it to be important? The oceans are important. Nobody lives in them.

Yes I agree that China exaggerates their importance. But your question hardly proves anything. I could just as easily turn around and point that they are not important to Japan either as nobody lives there.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

If the point is to try and prove Chinese greed, Japan can be prove just as greedy with Dokdo and that Pacific atoll Japan keeps pouring concrete on to try and make an EEZ.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Looks as if the Japanese gov't is spending 2.05 billion yen to go to war with China. Regardless who owns them...China will defend their claim to them even if they aren't theirs. Does the Japanese gov't have the gonads to do anything other than protest or look over their shoulder to the USA when push will come to shove? The only winner out of all this mess is the family who are going to be banking the 2.05 billion yen.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Sfjp330

Putting Potsdam Declaration and "legitimate basis in international law" in the same sentence is a classic oxymoron.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Looks a lot closer to China to me. Just saying.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Yeah oldsanno, the way this article is written the US is free of involvement. US troops will not be involved in this dispute between China and Japan, because Japan is being the agressor.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Why does anyone have to own them? Thug governments pumping fists. They all need a spanking.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Given that these islands are currently under Japanese control, how can China "defend" their territory.

also, on what basis do we know that there is a lot of oil around these flyspecks?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Awesome deal for the guy who "owns" the islands. I'd want to drop those things like hot coals if I were in his position...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China in the past and present is still in the eye's of Japan as "sick man of asia". Japan committed atrocities against Chinese but Japan alibi as nothing happened. Now Japan will purchase the China property with Dollar's from Japanese owner??? That is the culture of Japanese as LYING THIEF'S. No wonder they are intelligent peoples with a superior race The Overlord of Asia.

-17 ( +3 / -20 )

Jeff Ryan: Guam is much closer to Japan to me. But Japan has never claimed Japan`s sovereignty.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Obviously there are "internal' as well as "external" concern for the Chinese government, the keys to both being economic and political. The state of their economy is questionable at best with so much imbalance of wealth within the country that it is probably politically "dangerous" for many of the wealthy and powerful to stay that way. To prevent internal strife, an external "conflict" has always worked for ALL nations.

Whether Japan is "plying along" with China, that is doubtful at best. However, internationally, China is getting the "attention" it needs to "attract" all the developing nations and those nations currently in strife and conflict to "look at" China as the "possible" future economic and military "leader" of the world.

For China, Japan is an "useful tool" nothing more nothing less in the international arena. If worse comes to worse, they have enough people to "sacrifice" to keep their power. That has always been the case in China. Although the situation has changed with the high reproduction rate of the Arab and Muslim world, this is an opportunity to "flex" their power.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Iowan: Anyone else tired of vague governmental threats and warnings?........................................................................... No kidding ! . . . so much "TALK" about buying the islands . . but where is the action !

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

two mature countries are calling names and throwing stones...

Sorry, China is not a mature country. They are trying to catch up after shooting themselves in the foot for years and think that they can bully the neighbors. It's like a 14 year old who wants the keys to the Porsche. Unless the Chinese government starts to behave to international norms and behave like a mature government then this horse hooey will continue. China was able to negotiate the return of HK but now they just act like spoiled brats and think everybody should kowtow to their "ascendency." The reality is that China is corrupt, polluted, the rule of law rarely applies and the citizens are run roughshod over by the government and their lackeys. The only way the government fat cats can hold onto their wealth is to keep growth going as stronly as possible and whip up nationalism whenever things aren't going well. The Chinese government is on thin ice with their own economy slowing down. Expect to see more of this.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Yeah oldsanno, the way this article is written the US is free of involvement. US troops will not be involved in this dispute between China and Japan, because Japan is being the agressor.

The US is already involved and the Chinese know it. The United States and Japan are currently conducting a 37-day drill aimed at retaking an island. It's even in the China Daily:

Washington and Tokyo kicked off a military drill, which envisioned retaking an island, in what analysts said was a clear signal that the US was throwing its military weight behind Japan over the Diaoyu Islands issue.

Here's the official US stance:

Washington remains neutral on the issue, but it "falls within Article 5 of the US-Japan Security Treaty", US State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said on Thursday.

If the Chinese attempt to seize the islands by force, Article 5 of the US-Japan Security Treaty kicks in and the US will become involved militarily.

The US will not tolerate any Chinese seizure of the islands because they don't want a repeat of Woody Island. Were the Chinese to build an airfield on Uotsuri-jima, fifth generation Chinese fighter aircraft would be no more than 250 miles from US bases in Okinawa. That's not something the US will accept.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The US will not tolerate any Chinese seizure of the islands because they don't want a repeat of Woody Island. Were the Chinese to build an airfield on Uotsuri-jima, fifth generation Chinese fighter aircraft would be no more than 250 miles from US bases in Okinawa. That's not something the US will accept.

Right. So, it's not about defending Japan, but defending the US interests. The yakuza don't care if the shop owner is beaten so long as the protection money is not stopped.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Come on Japan, put some warships out there, defend your territory from the Chinese thieves

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

The key is not to let Chinese forces on the islands. If there has to be a conflict it might as well be now.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

After the JPN Gov. had checked China if this belonged to China or not, the islands were registered as Okinawa Japan 1895, we built a bonito flakes factory.There were Japaneses people living on the island till1940,then WW2 broke out. Everyone on the island came back to the mainland. Okinawa became the part of the US till 1972 and Senkaku islands as well since they were the prefecture of Okinawa. Before the US occupation of Okinawa,China officially sent to Japan an appreciation letter when some Chinese fish men were saved after the shipwreck at Senkaku island as stated within a Japan territory.

In Jinminnippo(Communist party News paper) on Jan. 8th 1953. It states Senkaku as Japan. Chinese Gov.maps in1953, 58 ,60 ,67, which were edited by them, all those maps show Senkaku as Japan. There were on the Internet till around Aug.26 2012.

If Senkaku had been China as now they claim, the US would have occupied Chinese territory till 1972? Makes no sense. When Okinawa was returned from US to Japan, that meant Okinawa prefecture was returned to Japan which includes Senkaku. The domestic and international law recognize the fact. Senkaku has owned by a private Japanese citizen who is now willing to sell ,either Tokyo or Japan not China. China and small numbers of people in Taiwan who believe sinocentrism have nothing to do with this business.

Since the UN team found some natural resources and their interest of expansion of their Navy territory, China has changed their attitude for Senkaku.

Many people might feel Japan is childish to play the game. It is not the game, which is directly connected our national security from unclear massive navy expansion of China last over 10 years, if they can take the area as their back yard, it will affect the US security and other part of Asia such as Vietnam, Taiwan, South Korea,,, and of course this is the issue of sovereignty of Japan. Japan does not want to see more countries become the victim of SINOCENTRISM they manifest like Tibet, Uighur.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

which back yard... its 2000 km from Japan and 200km from china.. ur backyard argument works against you

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

latiendaSep. 06, 2012 - 10:21AM JST China in the past and present is still in the eye's of Japan as "sick man of asia". Japan committed atrocities against >Chinese but Japan alibi as nothing happened. Now Japan will purchase the China property with Dollar's from >Japanese owner??? That is the culture of Japanese as LYING THIEF'S. No wonder they are intelligent peoples with >a superior race The Overlord of Asia.

Describes the Chinese today very well. Lying thieves and overlords of Asia.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Rhetoric and sabre rattling beget rhetorical and sabre rattling. Neither side is innocent in this, and both are acting like children. Hopefully it does't get to the stage where the axiom "violence begets violence" comes further into play.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Many people might feel Japan is childish to play the game. It is not the game, which is directly connected our national security from unclear massive navy expansion of China last over 10 years, if they can take the area as their back yard, it will affect the US security and other part of Asia such as Vietnam, Taiwan, South Korea,,, and of course this is the issue of sovereignty of Japan. Japan does not want to see more countries become the victim of SINOCENTRISM they manifest like Tibet, Uighur.

In the reality, Japan is very Childish about territory dispute. Just like three years old boy asking the ice cream! It is understandable about dispute with China. Because that islands were handed back to Japan in 1972 by US. However the problem of Japan is not only Senkaku, they have problem with Russia for norther territory. They also have problem with South Korea for other Islands. Now a days Japan media is so noisy about territory claim. Japan was a villian of world war II and bomded Hawaii.

According the treaty, US may confront with China for Senkaku issue because China is beatable although it is not easy. When Senkaku belonged to Japan, will Japan be happy? It is still greedy and will still demand the northern territory and rest of territory claim. Will US still has to confront with Russia or South Korea? US Marines have been kicked off from Okinawa. Local said the air base is social and economic burden for them. It is double standard of Japan hypocrisy.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

How about this solution make a special treaty stating that all four countries agree on making the islands a neutral zone. No one claims the island or use the island for personal gains. Everyone would be happy. I think all 4 parties are very childish. This should be settle in a peaceful matter.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I hope this is making everyone nervous cos it should be. These two knuckle-head countries have been looking for an excuse for a spat for over half a century and now they have one. China still wants revenge for the Japanese occupation and Japan still wants to play imperialist, so get your passports and kids ready cos this situation is going to get out of control very quickly, especially with the likes of Ishihara blowing his mouth off.

Oh, and BTW, if you look at the map, these islands are Taiwanese territory as they were until the late 18th century when Japan claimed them. Japan should just give them back.

@KariHaruka - Guess what China? Its not your territory to defend. Attack Japan in anyway and you will be the aggressor and we will have every right to use any means to defend our territory!

Um, I think you should just go and wash your black van and spend the afternoon reminiscing at Yasukuni shrine. Leave the politics to the less right-wing people.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I hope I can get home before the war starts.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Matthew Simon: Ah! But you forget about the oil involved in this whole spat ... if it were just rocks, neither would be so hasty right now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Alex, your logic is just based on geographical fact, Japan does not seek the sovereignty based on just the distance. Guam is 5 times? more farther from the main land of the US than Japan. However, I can still see the sovereignty of US for Guam. If so, your saying 200km VS 2000Km does not work as a logic.The International law does not work based on just distance. By the way do you know how far it is from Okinawa main land to Senkaku?

If China starts saying Okinawa is China, then it would be the different story. Because Senkaku are the part of county of Okinawa. I hope it won`t happen.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

we are confused by Zenpun, about Senkaku, South Korean islands, Norther territory???? I think an each case is very different.Stop talking other issues on the same table. But because of Zenpun, it seems Senkaku is the island of Japan. That we see clearly.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Chamkum

Japan does not seek the sovereignty based on just the distance.

It is not true. Japan claimed Manchuria based on the distance before the war. When Japan lost the World war II, they gave up their territory claim. In the reality, Senkaku Islands were under Qing Empire until 18th Century. However they lacked the knowledge and interest for managing that Islands. They were corrupted and so weak. It is also true that it never belonged to China before. China by herself under the mercy of Qing Dyanasty(Manchu empire). Without the Mongul and Manchu expansion, today China map will be many times smaller than now. As you said before Tibet and Uighur were colonized by colonial master of China. Now China claimed them as inheritance of Manchu and Mongul.

If China starts saying Okinawa is China, then it would be the different story. Because Senkaku are the part of county of Okinawa. I hope it won`t happen.

I have attended many Okinawa festivals. The truth is Okinawa costumes and culture are more similar to ancient China than Japan. For example, their sword was not the one used by Samurai. Okinawa was independent Ryuku kingdom for many hundred years. Senkaku is closer to Taiwan than Japan or China. Geographically it is not similar to both China or Japan landscape.

Please refer to the following history of Okinawa just before the 20th century.

"Four years after the 1868 Meiji Restoration, the Japanese government, through military incursions, officially annexed the kingdom and renamed it Ryukyu han. At the time, the Qing Dynasty of China asserted sovereignty over the islands of the Ryūkyū Kingdom, since the Ryūkyū Kingdom was also a tributary nation of China. Ryukyu han became Okinawa Prefecture of Japan in 1879."

Therefore Japan has no moral high ground as rightful owner of Senkaku or Okinawa as China claiming Xinjiang as part of their territory. Uigurs are different from rest of China. Territory gain and loss are created by wars. No one has clean hands. Logically both China and Japan can be called as bandits of territory.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The two most outrageous outcomes I can cook up are: (1) The Family refuses to sell due to too much fighting. (2) China nukes the islands. Sends in a floating oil platform flying the Chinese flag and takes over.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Flyfalcon

Tributary nation does not make it a soverign property of the suzerain state. If it did then Canada, Australia and various other nation would still be part of Britian. Secondly Ryuku only paid respect to Qing so they can obtain certain tax cuts like present day TPP, they certainly did not want Qing or any other states rule their own land.

Basically your logic is simply an out dated Sinocentrism not worth discussing.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

As if Japan has no other major issues to invest its money into. This is ridiculous. What about the N-energy? How about increasing the number of jobs? But NO, it has some spare 2 billion yen to spend on two islands even if it could lead to strained relations with other countries. Maybe the government drinks a bit too much?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

dont pls, could you like, not start fighting over a piece of land before i have got the money together for my plain ticket and trip and am back, after that slug it out if you like but dont waste my chance of a first holiday in years ... might be a while tho so chill

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

After I put my earlier comment, I checked it again the 3rd article of SF peace treaty Yes, clearly Senkaku was under the U.S. rule. If Senkaku had been Chinese islands, it means that all the Allies had snatched from China down to the U.S. rule. China said nothing. Then it was returned in 1972 to Japan. Again China said nothing. This is the end of the story but,

I checked the judicial precedent in an international law. Island of Palmas Case. 1)The title by geographical approachability does not have a meaning in the international law. 2) Discovery itself is immature origin of rights to obtain a sovereignty in international law which is inchoate title. 3) When a foreign country begins to use realistic sovereignty and a discovery country does not protest, the title which uses sovereignty is only larger than the title of discovery.

In this case, since Japan registered Senkaku as Okinawa in 1895 after we had asked to Shinchou(China in 1895), then till 1941, Japanese lived there and operated a bonito flaks factory could be considered using realistic sovereignty. Japaneses left early 40s because of war, then after the war, US ruled till 72, then returned Okinawa includes Senkaku to Japan.Since then, continuously Okinawa has been used by American force based on Japan US treaty till current moment. Just SF peace treaty is good enough to prove that Senkaku is Japan but the international law will support the case. With these circumstantial evidences, 100% Senkaku is Japan. Flyfalcon,you need to show the evidence to claim Senkaku and Okinawa is China and refute these evidences I listed earlier and in this comment. The sovereignty is not determined by what people think or any emotional argument but the law based on the fact. China should sue Japan.For that matter, Korea should do it, too. I am sick of all issues around Japan these days. I am sure if we lose Takeshima, Senkaku, at ICJ, the most decent Japaneses I would say 98% people will say no more about these issues and we will respect the final verdict. I want to have a peace with our next door countries.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I am not a historian, but several years back stumbled on a paper with picture showing that a mandarin king (not emperor) was assigned this island as summer tea farm resort.

The island was lost to Japan after war.

Shinchou was puppet government set up by Japan. It has no valid status in China

Russian own and run Kuril since 1940s, SK own and run Dokto since 1950s, do they have more right than Japan over Diaoyu? Then why Japan is still claiming those islands?

The CCP guideline for dealing with US and Japan is 'save difference, and find common ground'. They want to build economic to prove their 'legitimate' status. All out dispute was something they want to avoid as far as possible. The japanese coast guards just play ship bumping with fishing boats, Japanese activities on the island, Japanese govenment action, and Chinese protesters all push the Chinese Communist Party in the spotlight on this nonsense.

6 To borrow a line Japan government thrown to SK government, 'If you are some confident on your ownership, why don't you agree to bring the issue to ICJ?' Being a democratic government, Japan has more friend in ICJ than the perceived 'bad and evil' communist chinese government, and naturally has more hidden advantage. What is Japan government so afraid of to throw this line to China?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

This is really getting old! Lets cut to the chase and see who REALLY HAS THE BIGGEST BALLS! Shoot it out over the damn islands and get it over with!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

House Atreides

Here is the link to the article you were suppossedly quoting

http://english.sina.com/world/p/2012/0821/498633.html

Quote: However, the Japanese embassy in Beijing told the Global Times Tuesday "the joint drill is not aimed at any country, and it was decided a long time ago. The drill is aimed at improving the army's dynamic defensive abilities."

The US has joint excerises with Japan, South Korea and Singapore's soldiers train in the US. Honesty is the best policy, try it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I meant exercises

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ OssanAmerica Very good point about Hong Kong brain wash education, its the pariotic education which every country in the West has. Main point is that all Catholic / Christian school has brain washing education when it comes to spirituality, childern only get a choice of one god.... No place for Allah, Buddha or Ganesha. Most Catholic schools in Hong Kong are subsidised by government and students are randomly assigned. Hence tax payer money goes to helpping these school preach to childern who might be Muslims, Buddhist or Hindus. something is definitely wrong

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

What can they do? Japan already controls the islands. Just like Japan can't do anything about the Northern Kurils territories.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Samuraiblue

You obviously did not read my post or history referred fro wiki I did not mention qing was a colonial master. Culturally ancient China had heavy influence to neigbours. Therefore big brother bullied and demanded ranson from little brothers. Your sinocentric logic is out of touch with reality. There is no invitation about disscussion from my post..Your post is mixing with cultural impact and colonial expansion. China had never won any war with neigbour in19th century. It did not influence them by force. Neighbors copied Chinese language, art and craft, philosophy and simplified as their own. Just like Coke, Nike, iPod and Michael Jackson impacted the new world order. They did not force anyone to buy or use their art and innovation.Until 1879',Okinawa was a independent kingdom as you said. It was culturally more china than japan back then.Tribunal and colonial states are totally different.

Australia and Canada were founded by British exploration. They were part of colony before. Although they have native people like Okinawa or Hokkaido, they were controlled by settlers. Settlers were milking the resources too.The truth is territory gain or loss are not justified by historical settlement. Someone who is more advanced in science, they will control the territory. Japan was a first nation to be modernized in 19th century. It was strong. China was a sick man. No nation was a rightful owner of senkaku or okinawa back then. Pls be balance for history!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

tian4670 for 2) Please read SF peace treaty. Japan did not lose it, that was taken by the US then the US returned to Japan. 4)For Kuril, Japan and Russia have continued a dialogue for long time and the both governments are willing to see some resolution. Because of acceptance of Potsdam declaration,Japan can not say anything for this, but emotionally it is difficult for Japaneses to see Russia as the part of allies as the same way as other countries in 1945. Especially we had a treaty with Russia A.K.A. Portsmouth Peace Treaty arranged by the 26th US president Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt. How Russia attacked Hokkaido Japan was after 100,000 civilians had died in Okinawa, Tokyo carpet bombing 100,000 civilian died in one night where my mother lost the ability to walk normally and other areas of Japan ,and Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, total over 9,700,000 people suffered after that suddenly Russia broke the Portsmouth Peace Treaty where Hokkaido Japan had only civilians mainly women and children. But I guess technically Russia was considered as one of the allies, they took the North islands. When Okinawa was returned we expected the North island were returned but the during cold war, it did not happen. After the cold war, two nationsR&J are in communication for the issue. So it is a diffident case from Senkaku and Takeshima. The case of Takeshima is an illegal occupation by Korea according to the international law. So for the each cases, your logic would not work. (The word an illegal occupation is not my saying. The official documents in 1952, 54, 60, could be more, so far, I found 3 documents which use this term by allies not Japan side)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Chamkun for 2) the islands was lost to Japan after 1895 war.

for 4) Russian answer is 'no territory changed hands in history without a war'. I hope/wish Japan is not as hardline as that. SK answer is 'there is no dispute'. Along same line as Japanese. So, I can NOT see why these two islands are easier.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Chamkun

It was obvious that you did not read my post clearly. I did not mention that Okinawa and senkaku were part of china. Okinawawas belong to Japan since 1879. Before that Okinawa had tribunal relationship with Qing dynasty of china. Ancient china had strongly influenced both culturally and Japanse written form Kanji, art and craft, architecture, making tea, lion dance were imported. Korea too. Okinawa costumes, art and craft are more similar to china than Japan back then. What I mentioned was both China and Japan had no interest of that islands until late 19th century.

Senkaku were neglected by Qing dynasty in 19th century. I hope there will be peaceful settlement. Without US and Russia, no nation was able to defeat Japan. In the reality, Japan was owned by US after world war II. Therefore I think US was a legitimate owner of senkaku. The point is not arguing about ownership. No nation was legitimately claimed after world war II. Japan surrendered unconditionally. They did not leave condition for leaving some Island for them. Also China was a part of allied force. They did not claim after war or 1972. No nation has moral high ground right now except US.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Flyfalcon In fact, I believe, if Japan did not bring US into war game, it will concur China, and most SE asia, probably India, and even part of Russia. A huge empire. An empire so big (bigger than today's China + Mongolia), so that it has to relocate its capital from Tokyo to Beijing. Two hundred years later, on condition the world does not find its dead end by year end, Japan will become 'inseparable' part of China, with capital city Beijing.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Tian4670 - Were the Americans the only country fighting Japan in the pacific? That is news to me. You seem to have forgotten the Brits, China, Russia, India, Australia & New Zealand, just to name a few. If the US were not involved in the war it is more likely that Japan would have become part of Russia

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It would be pretty funny if there turned out to be none or much less gas/oil in the sea bed surrounding these islands than previously thought.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@flyfalcon No nation has moral high ground right now except US. This part, I agree with you. As a result, The US presence in Okinawa is very strong. Japan is asked to pay over $3billion for moving cost for major unit of Marine to Guam.In a normal country would not pay other country`s moving cost.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sorry,I gave a wrong numbers for the moving cost of US-marine from Okinawa to Guam, the cost Japan is asked by the US is $ 7,090,000,000.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tian4670 - Were the Americans the only country fighting Japan in the pacific? That is news to me. You seem to have forgotten the Brits, China, Russia, India, Australia & New Zealand, just to name a few. If the US were not involved in the war it is more likely that Japan would have become part of Russia

Disillusioned.

Poor analysis. You think U.S. would of left Japan with hands behind their back so that Soviets could just walk right through Japan's main islands? Cold war would of began as early as August of 1945 instead of 1947.

To borrow a line Japan government thrown to SK government, 'If you are some confident on your ownership, why don't you agree to bring the issue to ICJ?' Being a democratic government, Japan has more friend in ICJ than the perceived 'bad and evil' communist chinese government, and naturally has more hidden advantage. What is Japan government so afraid of to throw this line to China?

This time, a poor analogy from tian4670.

Japan's position has been is that since China has not suggested the word "ICJ", there is no territorial dispute. So the question goes right back to China. "If you (China) are so confident in your ownership, why don't you bring the issue to ICJ?" In addition, there already seats a Chinese national judge as well as Russian judge in the ICJ. Again I ask, "If you (China) are so confident in your ownership, why don't you bring the issue to ICJ?"

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Since Taiwan has suggested Japan, China and themselves all go to the ICJ over these disputed isles. Taiwan seems to have been ignored by Japan and China. What do you make of the current situation??? Japan could just go to the ICJ as Taiwan requested along with China and settle the isles dispute...

President suggests taking Tiaoyutai disputes to international court 2012/08/21 23:07:29 Taipei, Aug. 21 (CNA) President Ma Ying-jeou reiterated Monday Taiwan's sovereignty over the disputed Tiaoyutai Islands but suggested that all claimants could take the issue to an international court to seek a solution if necessary.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Jeff Ryan

Looks a lot closer to China to me. Just saying.

But if everything was mere geography, we could say Alaska belongs to Canada right.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Since Taiwan has suggested Japan, China and themselves all go to the ICJ over these disputed isles. Taiwan seems to have been ignored by Japan and China. What do you make of the current situation??? Japan could just go to the ICJ as Taiwan requested along with China and settle the isles dispute...

Well Taiwan needs to act first. Put up or shut up Ma.

Article 93 of the United Nations Charter. 1.A state which is not a Member of the United Nations may become a party to the Statute of the International Court of Justice on to be determined in each case by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

tian4670Sep. 06, 2012 - 06:12PM JST I am not a historian, but several years back stumbled on a paper with picture showing that a mandarin king (not >emperor) was assigned this island as summer tea farm resort.

Yea and my great grandfather was a Whaler out of Bedford Mass who had a shack on the island so it's mine.

The island was lost to Japan after war.

Nope, it was never taken in any war. It was Taiwan and Pescadores that were taken in the Sino-Japanese War of 1884/85.

Shinchou was puppet government set up by Japan. It has no valid status in China

Well that negates your argument that it was taken in a war. The Sino-Japanese wart of 1884/85 was between Japan and the Ching Dynasty (aka Qing dynasty) called Shinchou in Japanese. But really-It was quite valid as it signed treaties as the sole government ofd China wth all of the European countries.

Russian own and run Kuril since 1940s,

No, The USSR took the Southern Kuriles in violation of the Casiro Declaration. Russia just inherited it. To this date the US, UK and European Parliament consider them Japanese terrritory occupied by Russia.

SK own and run Dokto since 1950s, do they have more right than Japan over Diaoyu?

SK unliterally took the Liancourt Rocks against the US and Jaoan's positions and have illegally occupied them. That's why they are terrified of going before the ICJ to settle the issue.

Then why Japan is still claiming those islands?

Because the Senkakus have been and are Japanese. Chinese maps from the 1960s recognize them to be Japanese.

The CCP guideline for dealing with US and Japan is 'save difference, and find common ground'. They want to build >economic to prove their 'legitimate' status. All out dispute was something they want to avoid as far as possible.

That was Deng Xio Ping's suggestion and it worked fine until China, with the aid of the rest of the world including Japan, became an economic power and it went to their heads, the PLAnavy decided to take over all of the East andSouth China Seas, and the shool kids whjo received decades of "Patriotic brainwashing education" that instilled hatred towards Japan became adults and started gathering in demonstrations, enough to make the CCP government concerned about keeping them under control.

The japanese coast guards just play ship bumping with fishing boats, Japanese activities on the island, >Japanese govenment action, and Chinese protesters all push the Chinese Communist Party in the spotlight on this nonsense.

It is the Chinese actions, from the drunk fishing trawler captain that rammed the JCG vessels from behind Twice, the rabid masses calling him a hero, activists illegally landing on he island, all actions instigated by China that have necessitated reponses from Japan. China itself has brought the spot light on this issue in violation of Deng Xiao Ping's suggestion.

6 To borrow a line Japan government thrown to SK government, 'If you are some confident on your ownership, why >don't you agree to bring the issue to ICJ?' Being a democratic government, Japan has more friend in ICJ than the >perceived 'bad and evil' communist chinese government, and naturally has more hidden advantage. What is Japan >government so afraid of to throw this line to China?

No China is on the Perm UN Security Council and has a judge on the ICJ bench. If any party were to claim that they "wouldn't get a fair trial" it;s Japan. But Japan cannot bring an action against itself, it is up to China to take this to the ICJ. But they are arfraid to do so, because their claim is weak and it would open themselves up to claims from all the Asian counries with whom China has disputes. It is China that is terrified of the word ICJ.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China should be thanking the government of Japan for purchasing these to pre-empt Ishihara, and maintain the policy of doing nothing with the islands.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No China is on the Perm UN Security Council and has a judge on the ICJ bench. If any party were to claim that they "wouldn't get a fair trial" it;s Japan

Japan has a judge ad hoc in ICJ as well. Or are you saying Hisashi Owada's name on the list of judges is an error he doesn't know about??

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

China should be thanking the government of Japan for purchasing these to pre-empt Ishihara, and maintain the policy of doing nothing with the islands.

Ishihara indicated tha he will send the donated funds collected to the central government for the purchase which according to my calculation would leave 3 to 1 donated funds to central government ratio.

Secondly, the policy of leaving the islands as is will of course change depending on whose in charge after the next election for Abe/Ishiba had formed a group to study the prospects of what to do with the islands after the purchase.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The Noda cabinet & a few excessively excited media have indeed been fueling the heated pressure cooker with more oil -- desperately to score points after the humiliating fights vis-a-vis the north & the peninsula to the west. It sounds to me the C Govt, despite all the China bashing views, has been reacting relatively calmly as a contrast as compared to Russia, SK or even the US that ought to be least concerned by the isles thousands of miles from California.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

To Japan:

Set emotion aside and stay calm.

Set many diplomatic strategies against China according to US presidential election. Do not make any stupid move belore November 6th.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

UtrackSep. 07, 2012 - 12:04AM JST "No China is on the Perm UN Security Council and has a judge on the ICJ bench. If any party were to claim that they "wouldn't get a fair trial" it;s Japan"

Japan has a judge ad hoc in ICJ as well. Or are you saying Hisashi Owada's name on the list of judges is an error >he doesn't know about??

What I am saying is that the argument that China could not get a "fair trial" at the ICJ is unfounded.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Anyone signing up for the self defense force yet ? Really, both side should chill and back off, the world doesn't need this dispute to get out of hand now.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Thanks for the offer China, to defend Japanese territory, but it is not needed or wanted.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Koga bought it from the government during the early 1900's. Kurihara(current owners) bought from Koga during 80's. They all had deeds. They all paid property taxes.

Any private contract signed between the government of Imperial Japan and its people on the ownership of these islands would have been rendered null and void in 1945 when Japan ceded these islands to the Allies first according to the Potsdam Agreement and subsequently, the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

That is the reason why the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands can't even be found in any map of Japan either published by Japan or other nations in the world between 1945 to 1971 such as this one:

http://retromaps.tumblr.com/image/30107477891

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Any private contract signed between the government of Imperial Japan and its people on the ownership of these islands would have been rendered null and void

Even the people of Ryukyu know this basic fact.

http://www.imadr.org/multi/Okinawa is a Japanese Colony.pdf

"The 1952 San Francisco Peace Treaty divided Okinawa once more from Japan. In return, Japan gained independence. Okinawa belonged to no one and nobody protected her human rights. She was placed under the military dictatorship of the US Military High Commissioner. In order to build military bases, Okinawan lands were requisitioned. This meant destroying and wiping out the landowners’ harvests, livelihoods, cultures and pasts.

For the Okinawans, their land is where they live, where they celebrate their ritual feasts, it is part of their souls and their bodies. This land has now been taken away for a span of 65 years. There are instances of American soldiers who have killed or harmed Okinawans escaping punishment by simply being returned to America. The responsibility for this colonial status of Okinawa lies not only with America, but also with Japan, which put up Okinawa for sale in return for its own independence."

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Since Taiwan has suggested Japan, China and themselves all go to the ICJ over these disputed isles.

Since Japan denies the existence of any territorial dispute with China totally, it has effectively ruled out any possibility of an ICJ settlement on these islands in dispute.

However, since Japan's claim over these islands in dispute is a violation of the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and the Potsdam Agreement which states that:

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we (United States, China, Great Britain and Soviet Union) determine."

China can always bring up this violation of Japan to the UN General Assembly or the UNSC where China is a permanent member at any timing it chooses.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

That is the reason why the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands can't even be found in any map of Japan either published by Japan or other nations in the world between 1945 to 1971 such as this one:

You mean the same time frame when both ROC and PRC published a map where it stated "Senkaku Gunto" under Japanese territory using Japanese island names???

0 ( +4 / -4 )

China can always bring up this violation of Japan to the UN General Assembly or the UNSC where China is a permanent member at any timing it chooses.

And of course, the general assembly per U.N. charter will state that such matter be referred to the ICJ which is the sole judicial organ under the U.N.

Just because China found ancient documents that Jeoson Dynasty must tribute 1000 virgin to Qing Dynasty in which the former reneged doesn't mean that they have to comply with this agreement today.

We went over this a hundred times Guru29. Can't go back in time for Stalin, Churchill, Truman, Chiang Kai Shek are dead.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

nigelboySep. 07, 2012 - 12:42AM JST Ishihara indicated tha he will send the donated funds collected to the central government for the purchase which according to my calculation would leave 3 to 1 donated funds to central government ratio.

Seems like you approve this ridiculous old and senile local mayor of Tokyo getting involved in a central case. Can't Noda shut this guy up? Don't you think Ishihara should focus on his slum and dirty city with all the problems and and let the central goverment handle the case?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

is this political mater. is this a military matter. is this a matter of pride. is this a matter of if you want it then i want it. from the map i am looking at the islands are in international waters.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Seems like you approve this ridiculous old and senile local mayor of Tokyo getting involved in a central case. Can't Noda shut this guy up? Don't you think Ishihara should focus on his slum and dirty city with all the problems and and let the central goverment handle the case?

Not this current cabinet.

Give credit where credit is due. The so-called ole and senile one put this neglected issue in the forefront and the public awareness among the Japanese population has risen to an all time level.

Now, the central government is going to place several 1,000 ton JCG vessel and 3 additional helicopters to prevent these unauthroized landing of these so-called activists as well as protect the Japanese fishermen in the nearby area.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

the general assembly per U.N. charter will state that such matter be referred to the ICJ which is the sole judicial organ under the U.N.

No. A serious violation of the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and the Potsdam Agreement is not a dispute. ICJ deals only with disputes.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

No. A serious violation of the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and the Potsdam Agreement is not a dispute. ICJ deals only with disputes.

No. It's a legal dispute. Nice try.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

You mean the same time frame when both ROC and PRC published a map where it stated "Senkaku Gunto" under Japanese territory

Under Japanese territory? That is totally impossible because no one in the world including even Japan itself regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971.

Even the people of Ryukyu know this basic fact.

http://www.imadr.org/multi/Okinawa is a Japanese Colony.pdf

"The 1952 San Francisco Peace Treaty divided Okinawa once more from Japan. In return, Japan gained independence. Okinawa belonged to no one and nobody protected her human rights. She was placed under the military dictatorship of the US Military High Commissioner. In order to build military bases, Okinawan lands were requisitioned. This meant destroying and wiping out the landowners’ harvests, livelihoods, cultures and pasts.

For the Okinawans, their land is where they live, where they celebrate their ritual feasts, it is part of their souls and their bodies. This land has now been taken away for a span of 65 years. There are instances of American soldiers who have killed or harmed Okinawans escaping punishment by simply being returned to America. The responsibility for this colonial status of Okinawa lies not only with America, but also with Japan, which put up Okinawa for sale in return for its own independence."

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

No. It's a legal dispute. Nice try.

Well, You can always pick up a dictionary and check whether a violation means a dispute.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Under Japanese territory? That is totally impossible because no one in the world including even Japan itself regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971.

http://utukusinom.exblog.jp/13406509/

http://richter.pixnet.net/blog/post/18881937

http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka44/ryoshu-1961/08.jpg 尖閣群島中之一島 今名魚釣島、亦名釣魚島

It's not impossible. It's a documented fact.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Well, You can always pick up a dictionary and check whether a violation means a dispute.

Well one can claim that it's not a violation, then it becomes a "dispute". DUHHH

0 ( +3 / -3 )

nigelboy Sep. 07, 2012 - 05:15AM JST Give credit where credit is due. The so-called ole and senile one put this neglected issue in the forefront and the public awareness among the Japanese population has risen to an all time level.

Huh? Give credit for what? Because of dysfunctional nature of the Noda's Japanese goverment that they have to rely on senile mayor that is so out of touch with reality? You actually believe in Ishihara? No wonder you live in Japan. Facts of weakness and hopelessness in J-goverment? A feeling that central goverment can't meet the expectations and some of the J-goverment reps are shutting themselves up in their closet. Sadly, the central goverment have to cope with the problems with no answers and only recently begun to grudgingly accept the fact there is a problem in dispute of Senkaku.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

It's not impossible. It's a documented fact.

What documented fact? As I mentioned, it is a fact that no one in the world regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971, China, Japan, US and Taiwan included.

That is the reason why the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands can't even be found in any map of Japan either published by Japan or other nations in the world between 1945 to 1971 such as this one:

http://retromaps.tumblr.com/image/30107477891

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Huh? Give credit for what? Because of dysfunctional nature of the Noda's Japanese goverment that they have to rely on senile mayor that is so out of touch with reality?

What is "Reality" sfjp330?

Facts of weakness and hopelessness in J-goverment?

What are the "facts of weakness" you are referring to sfjp330. The "facts of weakness" that I've seen are displayed by you who are constantly hammered by other posters for your seemingless out of touch, easy to counter comments in regards to this topic.

Sadly, the central goverment have to cope with the problems with no answers and only recently begun to grudgingly accept the fact there is a problem in dispute of Senkaku.

What are the problems you speak of sfjp330? All I know is that it's China and its brainwashed citizens that's going ape$hit over this to a point where their government is wondering how far they should bitch and moan before their citizens take it out on them.

The best chance to take those islands were couple decades ago when people in Japan as well as the government really didn't care where the area was practically waiting to be occupied. (and it still virtually is). Now that the awareness level among the Japanese citizens have been raised to an all time high, you think the Chinese government has the balls to take the islands now considering the fact that SE nations are really ticked off with China because of South China Sea disputes?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What documented fact? As I mentioned, it is a fact that no one in the world regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971, China, Japan, US and Taiwan included

Didn't I just give you the links from both ROC and PRC? So your statement is FALSE.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If the current rulers fight and fail, they themselves will end up in prison or dead. At this time it is to distract their population but what happens when they demand action? One thing am sure of, China can not take on all of the nations of southeast Asia at once.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China best be worried with the words and actions it uses.

China is a paper tiger and Japan is not the Phillippines.

A Paper Tiger like China will have a rude awakening if it tangles with Japan, because what they will get will be the United States.

China needs to wake up, they may have a billion poor people to toss at M-16s, but they do not have a billion ships and those can be lost in seconds.

China needs to look up it's own history because everytime it has tried to invade a nation that can defend itself it loses.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Didn't I just give you the links from both ROC and PRC?

Which part of those links tells you ROC and PRC regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971? I don't see any.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

So your statement is FALSE.

Then you have to prove which part of what I said here is false:

"It is a fact that no one in the world regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971, China, Japan, US and Taiwan included.

That is the reason why the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands can't even be found in any map of Japan either published by Japan or other nations in the world between 1945 to 1971 such as this one:

http://retromaps.tumblr.com/image/30107477891"

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

One thing am sure of, China can not take on all of the nations of southeast Asia at once.

And this is what the Indonesians want to tell you.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/09/03/no-china-cheap-shots-please-mrs-clinton.html

Commentary: No China ‘cheap shots’ please, Mrs. Clinton

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Which part of those links tells you ROC and PRC regarded Ryukyu islands and Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971? I don't see any.

All of it.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

nigelboy Sep. 07, 2012 - 05:52AM JST A Now that the awareness level among the Japanese citizens have been raised to an all time high, you think the Chinese government has the balls to take the islands now.

Sure, laughable awareness level that you are talking about is that Japanese people are very embarrassed by their J-government's handling of Senkaku and all domestic issues. I often hear people say ridiculous things like, "I wish we Japanese had a good government" or, "Japanese politics is such a joke, all they ever do is care about themselves." Laughable, isn't it? It looks like Japan can't have a stable government. It is possible that, very soon, Japan will have their eighth prime minister in seven years if things keep going at this rate. I think that's great that central goverment relies on senile mayor to make decision for them. In Japan? Nope. We don't have that problem... When the prime minister's job is like a revolving door, with the prime minister changing every few months, then that's the best result we can possibly hope for short of abolishing the entire J-government. Why? Well, if we are changing government constantly, then they cannot pass new laws and let buddy local mayor handle the Senkaku or international problem and they can not raise taxes.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

“The Chinese government is monitoring developments closely and will take necessary measures to defend its national territorial sovereignty.”

Sorry sfjp330. Don't you think the above statement qualifies as "laughable" in this issue? So far, the measures have been sending activists and drunk fishermen and allow riots to their brainwashed citizens. Those are actions of very "stable" government for ya. So who's more embarrassing?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

nigelboy Sep. 07, 2012 - 08:06AM JST Don't you think the above statement qualifies as "laughable" in this issue? So far, the measures have been sending activists and drunk fishermen and allow riots to their brainwashed citizens. Those are actions of very "stable" government for ya. So who's more embarrassing?

It is laughable to J-goverment. It is hard to understand the J-government’s domestic actions with its bilateral commitments after the trawler incident. Not only were the legalities of the 1997 fisheries accord in regards to effective high seas jurisdiction violated by Japan but the broader, commonly agreed principle of shrewdly building separation between territorial and fisheries issues in the East China Sea too was unilaterally re-interpreted. And indeed while Japan does possess right to assert extra-territorial jurisdiction on the high seas under certain internationally recognised principles, to do so in this immediate case relating to territory widely considered in the region to be in dispute is politically injudicious to say the least.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The drunk fishermen was within the coastal limits which does not apply to the fisheries agreement. I even gave you the link to the JCG report. Why are you repeating the SAME NONSENSE?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

nigelboySep. 07, 2012 - 08:44AM JST The drunk fishermen was within the coastal limits which does not apply to the fisheries agreement.

How ridiculous of this statement. You tell me how many Chinese fisherman were arrested in last two-three decades by the JCG in the open ocean.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

How ridiculous of this statement. You tell me how many Chinese fisherman were arrested in last two-three decades by the JCG in the open ocean.

???? I don't know. How many??

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. Bob Dylan

Unfortunately don't see this issue being resolved anytime soon so my suggestion would be to get a good divorce attorney....Jpn has islands for first 6months of the year and China the next 6months. MOVE ON ALREADY!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

US will not do a single move against China, specially not in this economical / political climate... wake up and smell the roses as they say... in fact US is owned by China and even if they go to war, large amount of US army parts is in fact manufactured in China....

I can perfectly see how they will give up Japan under certain trade agreements with not a single shot fired if China is serious...

Sad.. but unfortunately very true, in any case what is pissing me off in all this is why / how Japanese government wants to raise taxes, or fight unemployment and million other financial deep problems by spending cash on irrelevant piece of rock down near Taiwan.. or they hope to run away there if all else fails ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Lew ArchieSep. 06, 2012 - 11:23PM JST

@Jeff Ryan

Looks a lot closer to China to me. Just saying.

But if everything was mere geography, we could say Alaska belongs to Canada right.

Alasaka was bought from Russia legally by US. It is not very credible example for Diaoyu or Senkaku issue. The better example is Greenland which is very close to Canada or Russia. However it is legally owned by Denmark. Canada was not rightfully owned by current residents according the history. They had their own native people. Settlers kicked off natives for their interest. As Flyfalcom mentioned, native had to surrender the land and resources to settlers. Science and technology is the answer for who will control and exploit the territory. Strong conquer and weak surrender!

If that Islands are still under administration of US, there will be no confrontation, dispute or drama. It was a grave error of former President Nixon and his advisers. US was a genuine, rightful, legitimate owner because she was the one defeated Japan in World War II. Luckily Russia lacked the knowledge about that Islands resources after World War II. If not they were controlled by Russia now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@JoeBigs

A Paper Tiger like China will have a rude awakening if it tangles with Japan, because what they will get will be the United States.

'Paper Tiger' is used by CCP to describe American. A copyright infringement will be served to you.

A likely sentence for you is:

buried in a shit hole until the island dispute settles.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@JoeBigs

China is a paper tiger and Japan is not the Phillippines.

Agree, Phillippines are more civilised.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Things are getting really stupid, really fast.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

ares7Sep. 08, 2012 - 04:37AM JST Things are getting really stupid, really fast.

Both, in threads like this one, and in relationships with neighbors.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's really about time JT removed this story from the front page.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Its good be nationalist, but people must keep always cool head, and analize serenely different kinds of options for negotiate, assessing objectively pros and cons. For example, time ago there were territories disputes between Rusia and China, but them decided to solve it, in order to bring closer these two nations, increase the coperation and help between them,and get other comercial and economics benefits for some agreements signed by them in goodwill. Since this point of view it could be seen more like a card for negotiation in relation with other many important interests.

Its only my point of view, but western world is in a multifaceted crisis, which Asia have been able to avoid; it would be stupid the possibility of deteriorate the winning streak of Asias countries, for be fighting between them for problems generated of nothing, that not benefits noone, but maybe western countries like USA.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Alex EinzSep. 07, 2012 - 12:09PM JST US will not do a single move against China, specially not in this economical / political climate... wake up and smell >the roses as they say..

The US government has effectively stated to the contrary, and China is complaining about it already.

in fact US is owned by China and even if they go to war, large amount of US army parts is in fact manufactured in >China....

That's a violsation of US fedral laws which prohibit any foreign manufactuer from prucring US miliraty contracts,

I can perfectly see how they will give up Japan under certain trade agreements with not a single shot fired if China >is serious... Sad.. but unfortunately very true,

No thats not reality. Perhaops that's your wishfull thinking but even the Chinese governent are not that naive.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

please check the map and see the distance between the islands and both countries then imagine what would happen if either country establish an military base on it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tony SunSep. 11, 2012 - 03:40AM JST ... please check the map and see the distance between the islands and both countries then imagine what would happen if either country establish an military base on it.

You know, requests to check and recheck distances as well as demands to look at some ancient maps is a very forum-like type of thing. But, guess what, - distance doesn't mean anything. The islands are Japanese and there is no legal or illegal way China could get those outside of open war, and only in the case if China wins. China will not be able to set a base there or use waters as internal. China knows it very well. Why does it stir the pot is beyond me. There is absolutely nothing to gain, but trouble.

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Sorry but the lead sentence of this article shows how deluded China is, it is NOT THEIR territory. Sorry, but saying it does not make it so. It takes a little more than 20 years of uncontrolled explosive economic growth at the expense of the Chinese people and culture to make any country a world leader or fit to make claims about who should do what in the free realm of the world.

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If Japan wants to buy the islands, that means they don't currently own them :-)

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Here's the wisdom of King Solomon, Cut the Island's in half, and give each their own, and by the way "Free Tibet"!!!

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Forget about trying to erect a national flag, china won't respect that. Go all samurai and dump some Fukushima soil on it. Mission complete.

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