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China, S Korea, Japan spar at U.N. over Abe's Yasukuni shrine visit

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Yawn, same old tired anti Japan propaganda.

Sure, complain about Yasukuni if you guys want, and criticize individual citizens for insensitive remarks regarding subjects like comfort women, but pretty please with sugar on top stop with misrepresenting and lying about what Japan didn't do in regards to its past.

10 ( +24 / -14 )

China and South Korea are getting mileage from Abe's Yasukuni visit. Japan has very few sympathetic friends on this issue in Asia and elsewhere. Japan has moved on from its barbaric past while China's present is an open goal for criticism. That's what modern Japan needs to emphasize.

12 ( +21 / -9 )

From years of my observation on Japan, they do a lot of things these days modern society frowns upon as if they are the most natural things in the world. I can understand going to Yasukuni Shrine but I wish they are more honest about these issues. No one except the nationalists believe that the PM is going to Yasukuni to pray for peace. I mean we all know the real reasons. China and South Korea simply lack the tact to approach this issue diplomatically, they are all too gung-ho about this.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

In the long term he biggest loser from all this nonsense is going to be Japan ,as China becomes the world's most dominant economy and perhaps superpower. The Chinese government and people will be permanently antagonistic towards Japan, and also the Japanese increasingly antagonistic toward China. For Korea the situation is more complex. The Koreans really should be teaming with Japan to check China's excesses. For now the Chinese might give them some Brownie Points, but for Korea as well, China will be a major challenge to deal with in the future.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

including 14 war criminals from World War II

over a thousand war criminals are enshrined there.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

So what does Yasukuni represent? Enshrinement of over a thousand war criminals (of which 14 are class A) has unfortunately changed the face of Yasukuni forever, and hardly anyone can think of Yasukuni and only remember the original intent, i.e. to simply honour the war dead.

Even if a thousand out of millions seems like a minority, the adjacent museum proudly displaying the suicide bomber plane suggests there is a more sinister intent behind Yasukuni.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/Museums/YasukuniJinja/Comet/Comet1oClock.jpg

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Mizuame, Korea is geographically too close to China and it's major cities too few and thus vulnerable to ever go against China. Though a lot of spin and schmoozing might have others believe otherwise

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I don't support Yasukuni visits, as I've said, unless the souls of the war criminals can be lured elsewhere. However, armed Chinese boats and planes are what is threatening stability. China is also playing into the hands of Japan's right wing, who is using this threat to increase military spending. I don't think the world needs any more wars. I wish reasonable people people on both sides luck in preventing one from starting.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

i'm sure a thousand years from now, china and sk will still be harping on the same issues...yawn.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

“Japan does not believe that such actions are helpful in lowering tensions and enhancing the stability in the region,” said the country’s deputy U.N. ambassador, Kazuyoshi Umemoto.

But when you know that visiting Yasukuni is going to cause these actions, you only have yourself to blame when they come about. No matter how much you don't believe they are helpful.

“Japan’s position is that this issue should not be politicized or be turned into a diplomatic issue,” he said. Japan, he added, wants “a future-oriented and cooperative relationship” with China and South Korea.

And how do you expect that to happen when you keep visiting the shrine, knowing it's going to inflame tensions?

Japan is either very smart or very stupid at playing the game of thrones.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Even if a thousand out of millions seems like a minority, the adjacent museum proudly displaying the suicide bomber plane suggests there is a more sinister intent behind Yasukuni.

All museums "proudly" display items of war.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

On the contrary Mitch, I can think of Yasukuni from both a rational and an emotional point of view. I understand that you are attempting to brand Yasukuni as some sort of a centre for hate but you already know that millions of Japanese people has good reasons to go to Yasukuni, simply because the spirits of their relatives are there. Abes visit is of course political. He wants to change the overall situation and gain domestic support. Im not sure that his game will work. From what I hear the people of Japan is not as easily fooled as many try to sell in this forum. But of course the constant critic and the bickering on the average Japanese citizen (not to mention the racist remarks) will of course sooner or later create bad blood. I cant think of anyone over the world that would not react in such a way. And then of course Abes policy will be the easiest way to get back on the complainers. It might just be enough to affect next election.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

China is A worker slave state.

China becomes the world's most dominant economy and perhaps superpower.

Finished for the day. Thanks for the laugh.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

No, no, no!

Abe is right!

The others are WRONG!

(Sarcasm)

3 ( +10 / -7 )

China is dissing a world order dominated by the United States. The basic bottom line is to build a better base of understanding among China, Japan and South Korea. The Yasukuni shrine visit will always provoke angry charges of jingoism from at home and from Asian countries that had suffered Japanese occupation during the war including China.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

It's almost reminiscent of the naivety Tojo and colleages showed in 1941, that somehow Japan was right and Japan was sure to be the ultimate beneficiary from this.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Japan Abe is surely an evil leader leading the whole country going to extreme right wing direction. Abe is an extreme right wing openly in UN without shame and his family background is from the famous WWII war criminal faimly.

Abe achievement in 2013 as:

Deny the Tokyo Trial

Deny the Comfort women.

Deny the WWII war crimes

Changing the school history text book

Try to bring the evil emperior to be the head to State

Increase military spending even Japan is under protection of US. Don't forget US is #1 military power and military spending in the world.

Openly worship the ghostly Shine without consider the victims of WWII. It is an insult.

Trying to change the constitution to make war with other country legally.

Stealing the islands from China.

Making unpeaceful enviroment to all neighbouring countries: China, S. Korea, N. Korea, Taiwan, Russia....

Two faced man: Talk and Deed are not in line.

Leaving the radiation problem behind.

All shows Abe is leading Japan militaristic and bring the evil imperial Japan army alive is real and true. Be alert.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

wants “a future-oriented and cooperative relationship” with China and South Korea

We are no more 1980s!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

i'm sure a thousand years from now, china and sk will still be harping on the same issues...yawn.

@rickyvee - Are you sure? A thousand years? What thousand-year old issues are China and SK still 'harping on' about?

The reason why WWII is still relevant today is because there are still survivors, for example 'comfort women' survivors who are being branded 'prostitutes' by senior Japanese politicians. The fact that so few of the survivors are left is the reason why it is even more relevant today.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

The last three J PM refrained from visiting the shrine hoping for "a future-oriented and cooperative relationship with China and SKorea", but the situation has only got worse and worse. Believe me, it's the same whether visit or not.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

The cr@p has very quickly become tiring, china needs to pull its head and korea need to accept the apologies that have been given.

Let japan pay repsects to its war dead, after all most of those soldiers who died were brain washed into fighting and had no choice anyway. The fact that 14 war criminals are buried in the same memorial is coincidence and means nothing, if japan cannot go to yasukuni to pay respects where do these Korean and Chinese think japan should do that?

Damn morons have no idea about nuttin.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

most of those soldiers who died were brain washed into fighting and had no choice anyway

NO! This is absolutely not true, those Japanese soldiers were fanatic die hard killing machines and they choose to chant that 'Mansei' slogans during their charges! They were not 'No choice anyway' and their killing of civilians has indicated their no conducts and criminal motivated! But i agree both China and ROK has no idea of nuttin. That was totally not necessary!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Mitch CohenJan. 30, 2014 - 05:41PM JST

The reason why WWII is still relevant today is because there are still survivors, for example 'comfort women' survivors

And the reason "comfort women" issue is getting complicated is due to credibility of the testimonies. http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

On page 19, former comfort woman Ms. YONG SOO LEE testified in writing as follows.

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of People's Army uniform with a combat cap. Altogether, there were five girls with him, including myself.

On page 17, the same Ms. YONG SOO LEE testified orally as follows.

I live in Taegu, South Korea. My name is Lee Yong Soo, and sometimes I am a 14-year-old girl, and I look outside my window, and there is a girl, and there is a Japanese man, and they are saying something to each other, and they are gesturing me to come out. I did not know anything. I did not know what was going on but they gestured me to come out so I came out, and as you seen her dress, the girl and the Japanese soldier put their hand on my shoulder, and covered my mouth, and the soldier put something against my back, and like that in the middle of the night I was taken away.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

It's a shame that the leadership of these countries use international forums, editorials in foreign papers, billboards and statues elsewhere in a hope someone will side with them.

Especially when one party censors all information within their country and uses other nations' freedoms for their own propaganda.

I guess the fianancial markets haven't been affected, so to most folks, that's important.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Communist China is worried about it's plans in Africa since Japan has made moves there. So they have to do something to make Japan seem like the big bad evildoer and what's better way than use outdated silly Communist propaganda.

As for Korea, Communist China barks Korea jumps and does what it's told.

Reminds me of the Soviet Union and it's Eastern Block tributary states.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

@CH3CHO

why do you keep posting the same link about the comfort woman survivor Lee Yong Soo which you have done at least twice this week. Whether her statement is correct or not. what happened to the tens of thousands of comfort women can't be judged by her statement and does nothing to deny the truth that tens of thousands of very young women were taken or tricked into becoming prostitutes for the Japanese imperial army.

If you can only keep posting the statement of Lee Yong Soo then you don't have much? To deny the comfort women ever happened will take more than that?

8 ( +14 / -6 )

I also do not support visits to the Shrine by Japanese Prime Ministers as long as the Class A criminals are listed on the register. And I think Abe and the rest of the Japanese need to take notice of the fuss this causes with their neighbours.

But, China are using this as a smoke and mirrors tool to deflect the real responsibility for raising tensions and pursuing military buildup, which clearly lies with them.

All three parties are constantly needling each other in one way or another - I honestly think they are all complicit in the tensions.

6 ( +7 / -2 )

My point of view is that the chinese authorities should refrain from doing such statements. They don't have a good point.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

zichiJan. 30, 2014 - 07:20PM JST

I think it was twice. The problem is that there were a number of Japanese politicians as well as Japanese citizens who supported comfort women. However, over the years, they are losing support because of the "testimonies" of the Korean former comfort women. Every time they make a speech, we are left with contradiction and we lose the understanding of what really happened. I understand they are under pressure of Korean public to speak ill of Japan, but telling lies will not help. On the other hand, testimonies of Dutch former comfort women are consistent and no one in Japan doubts the credibility.

http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

The testimony of the other Korean former comfort woman, MS. KOON JA KIM. On page 30

When I was little we lost our parents. In our family there is only three girls but all of those three girls because we were orphans we were sent to other people's houses to live with them. So I was sent to a family in Gangwon Do, Gangwon Province, and that house was in front of a train station, and when I was 17 years old I was sent outside for an errand by that family, and that is when I was captured and taken away.

The other version on page 32

I became an orphan when I was 14 and I was placed in the home of Choi Chul Ji, a colonial police officer.

I remember the day that changed my life forever. It was March of 1942, and I was 16 years old. I had been sent out of the house by police officer Choi and told that I needed to go and make some money. I found a Korean man wearing a military uniform and he told me that he would send me on an errand and I would be paid for this errand. I followed him and he told me to board a train- a freight car. I did not know where I was going but I saw seven other young girls and another man in a military uniform on this freight train.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

I agree china uses the western media as a propaganda machine freely spewing its view while no one in china can actually get to see anything .

Until china behaves like a democracy instead of hiding behind its censorship then it has no place in calling any one out for anything.

China you need to open your closed rice and dumplings curtain and then sit down with japan and work out the issues that are bothering you so much.

If china refuses to partake in any talks and uses this reason or that reason why it wont then it is quite clear it is seeking revenge for the Japanese occupation and only wants war for wars sake.

If this is the case then china you need to be hauled over the coals and a world wide embargo installed, nothing in nothing out, then see if you still persist in this petulant behaviour.

Many things can be solved by talking, nothing can be solved by spewing hatred and bombs !

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Perhaps China should elaborate more about the political connection betweeen Shinzo Abe and his great uncle "Nobusuke Kishi", especially his role of exploiting Chinese forced labor during the Japanese occupation of Manchuko! That will make the world more realizing the depth of evils in this Yasukuni Shrine!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@CH3CHO

you didn't answer my question. In the document you constantly link to, names two Korean Comfort Women survivors, Yong Soo Lee and Koon Ja Kim, and has I have already stated whatever their statements were, the tens of thousands of Korean Comfort Women survivors can't be judged by the statements of the two?

And again, like I've already said, if that's all you have, you have nothing?

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Shinzo Abe visiting the Yasukuni Shrine is not just about an individual visiting the war shrine but a public figure endorsing the wrong committed by its armed forces. It is basically like rubbing salt into the scar that has not been healed. However what has happened cannot be undone, but what can be done by Japan has not been done yet. The future of Japanese stability is in the hands of the Japanese people not in American military might. What wonders me as a foreigner is how Japan could easily submit and forget the atrocities of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Nuclear bombing of 1945 committed by United States of America killing hundreds and thousands of Japanese instantly and maiming and poisoning hundreds and thousands thereafter. America has never said sorry to Japan, rather the man who dropped the nuclear bomb reiterated without any remorse to the manslaughter that if such situation so arises again, he will not hesitate to drop the same bomb over Japan. I am just sick at how America considers the Asian as guinea pigs and yet Japan refuses to say sorry to the actual deeds committed by their so called war heroes to China and the two Koreas! It appears that Japanese people are accepting the racial inferiority of their own kind against the whites for they do not maintain the same ego on these issues. America cannot be by the side of Japan all the time. The world is fast changing. Any war with its powerful neighbours will not be intervened by America as it will annihilate the whole world. It is most certainly clear that America will not dare to venture in such deadly confrontation. It does not matter how many bilateral treaties are signed for Japanese protection, at the end it will be Japanese affairs. I believe Japanese be politically correct than pursuing dead diplomacy for no gain of its future stability. What Japan stands to gains is just ego, the substance has evaporated. I hope Japan be late than never. None of the Japanese living today is responsible for the wrong committed by their grand military during war time, they only own the legacy. Therefore saying sorry for the atrocities do not mean surrendering Japan, it only releases the wrong legacy that only hurt the ego but not substance.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

zichiJan. 30, 2014 - 08:24PM JST

There are not so many former comfort women who testified or actively presented speeches.

Those 2 testified before US congress.

There were less than ten who testified before UN survey team of comfort women issue.

There were about ten who filed law suit against Japanese government and testified before the court.

All of the testimonies were more or less questionable. If I have time and courage, I would go into detail.

You say "tens of thousands of Korean Comfort Women survivors", but we only know about 200 of Korean self claimed former comfort women and no one know the total number. Many of the 200 do not disclose the detail of their account for privacy reasons.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

CH3CHO: Your speech in nothing else than revisionism!

In Europe, including Germany, developing such a kind of arguments against proven history facts would bring you to court.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

...paid homage to those who launched a war of aggression and were up to their elbows in the blood of the people in the countries they invaded....

Perhaps a sign of flexibility - in the past, they might have said "up to their necks." Still, I suppose it depends on where one holds one's elbows.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Open MindedJan. 30, 2014 - 09:41PM JST

I am glad I am in a democratic society.

The problem is that anyone can see the contradiction in the testimonies before the US Congress. Yet, no one can say there is contradiction.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

@CH3CHO

but we only know about 200 of Korean self claimed former comfort women and no one know the total number .....

Who are the WE in your sentence. I avoided to use a figure of 200,000 Comfort Women which is often used, instead I said tens of thousands which I believe is far more accurate than the 200 only claimed by you. You say, no one knows the exact number, and that is probably correct but with documentation an accurate number can be understood. Just given the number of troops the prositutes were forced to service would have required tens of thousands and not just 200, so your claim makes no sense in truth. But I guess you'll seek another way to defend your errors?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Zichi, the problem is that whether it's nanking or the comfort women, uyokusha will try to find one discrepancy with a witness here or there, to attempt to shed doubt on the whole thing. It would be like neo-nazis denying the holocaust by attacking one a few Jewish testimonies by pointing out their ages were wrong. Revisionist websites are all like that.

They provide a document about some comfort women being treated well and making money. Then the guys in the black trucks (who aren't the brightest) will point to that as evidence that the comfort women were all prostitutes who made lots of money. It's sinister, and absurd, but it works - well, among people who want to deny the truth.

@Storm. Japanese don't have to go to Yasukuni to pay respects at all. Yasukuni is a shrine. If you think about it, most Japanese have never been to Yasukuni. Can you say they have never paid their respects to their relatives who died in the war? Of course not. You can pay your respects by praying at a butsudan, going to a cemetery, or by closing your eyes on August 15th. So Japanese do not HAVE to go to Yasukuni.

But, personally I have no problem with Japanese people including Prime Ministers going to Yasukuni. Whether there are war criminals there isn't the big issue. Because there are A, B and C. I don't see why the "spirits" of B and C isn't a problem but the fourteen A class are? And most people don't know the difference between A,B and C anyway.

And of course, we have to realise that it wasn't Japanese who classified them as war criminals or into A,B and C, but the Allied forces.

IN the same way that Christians or other religions believe in a "decent burial" for all, or the keeping of graves of people whether they were criminals or not, there is no principle of not paying respects to the spirits of those who died for the emperor regardless of whether another country convicted them as criminals. And probably even if Japanese Shintoists agreed they committed atrocities, they still are gods in death. In general, Japanese don't diss dead people. Especially not their ancestors.

Abe is smart. The more China and Korea complain about it, the more Japanese will be angered. Abe knows what he's doing.

We as foreigners can't educate Japanese about the war. About the only way we could do that is to make movies about the suffering of people at the hands of Japanese during ww2 for every movie the Japanese make about the "beautiful sacrifice" of those who died defending Japan from "the enemy". Japanese don't want to hear about comfort women and atrocities from non-Japanese.

Just hope that Japanese themselves will vote out Abe and his type. And that revisionist education will stop - otherwise we'll have a generation of young people easily used again as they were 70 years ago.

But if Abe introduces conscription, I'd say it's time to head for the hills. Then you'll really know you're in a 1920's, 30's time warp.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

zichiJan. 30, 2014 - 10:01PM JST

@CH3CHO

but we only know about 200 of Korean self claimed former comfort women and no one know the total number .....

Who are the WE in your sentence

It is the South Korean Government. The South Korean Government so far identified about 200 former comfort women, besed on their claim.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Judgement day is coming for Shinzo Abe. Not to worry. His days are numbered.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CH3CHO:

I am glad I am in a democratic society.

Sorry, but the main role of a democracy is to defend the facts.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

War criminals were sentenced by the UN where victory countries consisted of. True feeling for soldiers who passed away doesn't mean anything more than gratitude for defending our nation. They can label them as a criminal, but dead for the nation cannot be labeled by anything. As Saigo Takamori noted, " Despise what people did, not person themselves." I believe this is what Japan is doing.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@CH3CHO

From the Asian Women's Fund

Taking the case of the 21st Army in 1939, Yoshimi estimated 1 comfort woman for every 100 military personnel. He put the total number of personnel at 3,000,000 men, giving 30,000. Yoshimi then multiplied this number by a replacement rate of 1.5, to give a total of 45,000 comfort women. Then taking a different tack, Yoshimi applied common saying used among agents to estimate 1 comfort woman for every 30 military personnel. This gave 100,000, which he multiplied by a replacement rate of 2.0 to give 200,000 comfort women. These two calculations yield a low of 50,000 and a high of 200,000, giving us a rough idea of how many comfort women there were.

http://www.awf.or.jp/woman/pdf/ianhu_ei.pdf

Even if we used the lower figure of 50,000 Comfort Women which were all nationals including Japanese, the figure of only 200 Korean women seems highly unlikely.

Its wrong to take anyone against their will and force them to do what they don't want to do.

Hwang Kum-ja was forced into sexual slavery at 16, just died age 90. She never married.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/ngos/AJWRC_92_Japan.doc http://www.vcn.bc.ca/alpha/learn/comp.htm

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Commie smears at the UN. Nothing new. Was the PRC's Ambassador doing some back slapping / holding hands with North Korea's Ambassador before he worked himself into a lather, I wonder. BFF's best friends forever. I wish the Comedy Channel would broadcast these UN diatribes so we could see the nuanced winks and nods, the foam on the yapping mouths. At least entertain me if youre going to be a hissy fit dramatist.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Does ANYONE realize what China's and South Korea's ""ULTIMATE"" goals are in demonizing Japan Diplomatically? (I have an answer to this in twelve hours or so from now (Arizona, USA time is now 7:50 AM.)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Many commentators fueled with nationalistic sentiments might need to get a good dose of realism: it’s not about two (China and S.K) against one - Japan in U.N or somewhere else; the plain reality is that the rest of the world and Japan’s friends and longtime allies have shown little to none of sympathy to the incapacitated rebuttals mounted by Japanese envoys after Abe’s Yasukuni Shrine visit.

Here is fairly simple question, how many countries so far have openly buy Japan’s key counter argument (e.g Yasukuni Shrine visit was strictly aimed at peace?)

Abe surely can continue playing his Shrine card as he likes inside Japan to really nationalistic support, but chances are Japan will have to embrace more negative publicities in the world. In addition, Abe’s admin will surely inadvertently provide ammunitions for Japan’s neighboring counties to slam on Japan.

If a war indeed breaks out, the expectation for Japan to be rescued would be a 600 billions dollars of question.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@CH3CHO

It is virtually impossible to determine the total number of comfort women, as no document has been found which either indicates their total number or gives sufficient ground to establish an estimate. However, in view of the fact, as described above, that comfort stations were operated in extensive areas for long periods.it is apparent that there existed a great number of comfort women. Apart from Japanese, many of the comfort women transferred to the war areas were from the Korean Peninsula.** http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/postwar/issue9308.html

It should be pointed that a very large number of military documents held by Japan were destroyed or never open to the public. Hundreds of thousands of documents collected by America after the end of the war were never copied before being handed back to Japan.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Yesterdays news. Move on China and SK! Oh wait nevermind this only happened last month so no chance of moving on when you both are still stuck in WW2 which is over 70 years ago...

0 ( +5 / -5 )

To un-enshrine the war criminals would be to admit that there were any such things in Japan’s past. Certainly, the notion of “war criminal” was a 20th Century invention, since we do not see the term applied to earlier conflicts. Two things about history: it can’t be changed, and it is in the past. Our focus should be living in the present and planning for the future. Meanwhile, China is a threat to peace in the Far East so let us not kid ourselves about what is really going on here.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

davidnorell:

Does ANYONE realize what China's and South Korea's ""ULTIMATE"" goals are in demonizing Japan Diplomatically?

Unfortunately, all the last actions and speeches from Abe & Co seem to seek this goal for internal vote gain and international victimization. Very dangerous game in my opinion.

Basically, any little issue - islets, shrine, … - are a convenient excuses for both governments to maintain a convenient tension to divert their own populace from internal issues they are not able to fix. Exactly the same dual tactic used during the Malvinas/Falkland clash between Argentina and UK 30 years ago.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I wish China and Korea would grow up and move on.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Don't mention Tibet.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

KariHaruka:

Move on China and SK! Oh wait never mind this only happened last month so no chance of moving on when you both are still stuck in WW2 which is over 70 years ago...

I am fine you asking SK and China to move on because this is old story. But please do the same with Japan who is trying to revise history. Why revising inconvenient history 70 years later? Again just because all of these countries government need troubles to artificially maintain their credibility. Bottom line, this is a political issue and not a historical one.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

EthanWilberJan. 30, 2014 - 11:54PM JST Many commentators fueled with nationalistic sentiments might need to get a good dose of realism: it’s not about two (China and S.K) against one - Japan in U.N or somewhere else; the plain reality is that the rest of the world and >Japan’s friends and longtime allies have shown little to none of sympathy to the incapacitated rebuttals mounted by >Japanese envoys after Abe’s Yasukuni Shrine visit. Here is fairly simple question, how many countries so far have openly buy Japan’s key counter argument (e.g >Yasukuni Shrine visit was strictly aimed at peace?)

What you fail to recognize is that apart from China and South Korea nobody gives a damn whether any J-politician visits a shrine that has dead people's names written down. Furthermore, many of those nations that really do not care about Japan and shrines are all working on ways to deal with China's military expansion and territorial aspirations, because China is a threat to peace in the region, while Japan is not.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

OssanAmerica:

What you fail to recognize is that apart from China and South Korea nobody gives a damn whether any J-politician visits a shrine that has dead people's names written down.

USA and Europe did. That is a bit more than nobody!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Open MindedJan. 31, 2014 - 12:59AM JST OssanAmerica: "What you fail to recognize is that apart from China and South Korea nobody gives a damn whether any J-politician visits a shrine that has dead people's names written down."

USA and Europe did. That is a bit more than nobody!

No you are very wrong. The U.S. and EU objected to the Yasukuni visit because "it would increase tensions" ie; China and South Korea would whine like babies. Neither the US nor EU thinks for a moment that the shrine visit represents Japan returning to pre-WWII military control and fascism as China and South Korea keep saying, despite 70 years of Japan's peaceful history with the world. Notice that the US and EU are not at all concerned about Japan, while they consider China to be a military threat.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

OssanAmerica: US and Europe are using diplomatic communication way, especially considering they have not been victims from Japan (except for Pearl Harbor). But they clearly condemned any celebrations at this specific shrine. Could it be for political stability - most likely - or fair recognition of history.

And as you said if Japan has had a 70 years of peaceful history, why not magnifying it, why trying to change that or why trying to revise history, ? In any case Japan alone has zero chance against China in case of conflict. What is the real objective behind the Abe & Co's speeches/actions?

(If USA or Europe do not care directly about Yasukuni-shrine is just because they do not know what it is. But I can tell you that after having visited it and the "museum" besides, I cannot believe that top J-politicians make this visit for plain spiritual reasons)

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Open MindedJan. 31, 2014 - 01:35AM JST OssanAmerica: US and Europe are using diplomatic communication way, especially considering they have not been >victims from Japan (except for Pearl Harbor). But they clearly condemned any celebrations at this specific shrine. >Could it be for political stability - most likely - or fair recognition of history.

You make no sense. Firstly, the US and EU are allies of Japan and all are democracies. Secondly the US, European countries, other allies like Australia all were victims of Imperial Japan 70-75 years ago but we are educated people who know that WWII ended a long time ago, War Crimes Trials were held, and Japan has peace treaties with everyone. Funny that even PRC has a peace treaty with China from 1972 that they are ignoring.

And as you said if Japan has had a 70 years of peaceful history, why not magnifying it, why trying to change that or >why trying to revise history, ?

They would have if China hadn't forced them into it with heir belligerence and anti-Japan attitude.

In any case Japan alone has zero chance against China in case of conflict. What is the real objective behind the Abe >& Co's speeches/actions?

Japan has a very high chance against China in limited and conventional engagements. China has zero chance to exist if it decides to use nuclear weapons. The Abe administration's goal is to let China know that they can not bully and intimidate Japan they way China treats other smaller Asian nations.

(If USA or Europe do not care directly about Yasukuni-shrine is just because they do not know what it is. But I can tell >you that after having visited it and the "museum" besides, I cannot believe that top J-politicians make this visit for plain >spiritual reasons)

I have been to the shrine and in the museum. Great place if you like war memorabilia. I wasn;t offended by anything.US and EU don't care about Yasukuni because we know nobody is going there to "glorify war" or "worship war criminals". That's Chinese nonsense.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

OssanAmerica: humility and altruism is the base for dialogue. Could it be between individuals or nations. So a word to the wise!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Abe's foreign policy is so random that you can't consider it constructive. Everybody knows that China and SK will whine and cry about Yasukuni. And so a visit by Abe simply diverts attention from the real issue, which is China's expansionist policy toward the neighbors. Everybody knows that Japanese comments about the comfort women are going to cause a fuss, and divert attention....and still Abe is right to criticize China's aggression. But he's muddled the message. It's a pity that he can't get this right. His inability to lead could allow the Chinese aggression to get to the point of shooting.

China should know better, but so should Abe. He's making a hash of this.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Open MindedJan. 31, 2014 - 02:16AM JST OssanAmerica: humility and altruism is the base for dialogue. Could it be between individuals or nations. So a word to >the wise!

I agree completely. I am simply astonished that China threw away it's chances of becoming a "leader" of Asia after working so hard.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

China, South Korea, and the neighboring countries should be well prepared if they do not want to repeat the history. Abe and his patsies cannot see the intensity and sickness of the war crimes committed by the terrorist organization, Japanese Imperial Army. Many are not properly educated.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

You know what is funny, the Korean and Communist Chinese propaganda machine seems to have forgotten that the web is a small world.

Here's why, on more than one site (9) by last count the same posts have been made by different people. Maybe you have seen this one:

It goes something like this........

**We do have evidence that Japan is going to extreme right direction that will lead the return of the evil imperial Japan army. Accomplishment of Abe in 2013:

Deny Tokyo Trial Deny comfort women. Deny WWII war crimes**

Classic cut and past propaganda brought to you by Communist China and it's tributary state of Korea.

Communist China is trying to put full pressure on Japan so Japan will stop competing with them in different markets.

Proof, this latest onslaught of silly Communist propaganda started right after Japan went to Africa and pledged aid.

BTW, if folks haven't realized it by now, when Communist China barks, Korea comes running.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

zichiJan. 30, 2014 - 11:05PM JST

I am glad you are studying the facts. I think you now understand how reliable the "estimated" number of comfort women is. You can get any number you like by just changing "soldier to comfort woman ratio" and "replacement ratio". What I am saying is that we should sort out what is known from what is unknown. Some people just jump at me to call me an ultra nationalist, but they should realize the issue cannot be solved without first establishing facts.

Zichi, you try to discredit me by saying as if I said there were only 200 comfort women. But look what I said.

but we only know about 200 of Korean self claimed former comfort women and no one know the total number.

Did I say the total number of comfort women was 200?

Its wrong to take anyone against their will and force them to do what they don't want to do.

I agree. Look what the public moral in those days was like, and what the delegates of "advanced nations" at the time had to write in an international treaty. http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/whiteslavetraffic1910.html

INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF THE WHITE SLAVE TRAFFIC of 1910

FINAL PROTOCOL

D. The case of detention, against her will, of a woman or girl in a brothel could not, in spite of its gravity, be dealt with in the present Convention, seeing that it is governed exclusively by internal legislation.

Two wrongs do not make one right. I hope people will dig out wrong doings in Europe and America as well to redress those women.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If those comfort women had been forced to work, why no parents ever complained, not even a single case?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

tinawatanabeJan. 31, 2014 - 10:38AM JST

I do not think we should speculate like that. The family may have been too afraid of Japanese military. You need to collect material before making such remarks. In fact, I thought there were documented cases in which the family who protested rape was killed by Japanese Army in China and in Indonesia, though I am not familiar with such cases in Korea, and though comfort women and rapes are technically different.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

China, Japan and S.Korea... It always these three countries for god's sake, just grow up. Japan you should accept the atrocities you committed in WW2 and not keep having one politician admitted it while another politician pop up to denied it, China you should stop the anti-Japanese education which it benefit no one but give ammunition for the Communist Party's agenda and Korea your anti-Japanese education is worst than the Chinese, you're teaching young Korean to blow up Japan, stop it. Also finally the islands is worth shit to fight over it, if it up to me I'll just nuke it so no one will have it. How about that?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

More smoke and mirrors from the CCP in an attempt to divert the UN and other nations attention from CCP China's reprehensible militarist behaviour towards Japan over the Senkakus and SE Asian nations over the South China Sea, its murky internal totalitarian policies, and the kleptomania and criminality of the CCP leadership, their families, and minions.

Just as reprehensible are the leaders of Korea and their nationalist backers who are climbing into bed with CCP to score cheap political points from the Japanese; led by the President of Korea whose father was an officer in the Imperial Japanese Army and thus enforced and took part in the crimes she and her fellow travelers are decrying. The stench of hypocrisy and sycophancy emanating from South Korea is beginning to get on the nose.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

CH3CHO

Have you heard of any news report about any Korean parents complaining after the end of war about their daughters kidnapped as comfort women ? That's what I meant.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

tinawatanAbe

Have you heard of any news report about any Korean parents complaining after the end of war

At the end of the war, most vitcims Korean parents were not educated, smart and literate like modern day JT posters. Some of them were very sick and frail. Some of them lost their tongues for complaining about the brutality.

I am guessing who have cut their tongues and made them very weak and sick?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

their daughters kidnapped as comfort women ?

Sex slaves. Nothing less. Saying they were comfort women suggests they were engaged in some kind of meaningful employment instead of being forced to provide sex for imperial soldiers. Please, don`t give what they were forced to do any dignity. Another poster reminds me that the shrine honours 1000 war criminals including 14 convicted class A criminals. 1000 it is from here on in.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

There is little doubt that the Japanese kidnapped and coerced some women, making them sex-slaves. Everything seems to point in that direction. But to say they were all sex slaves is to ignore the reality of life - when faced with little/no other options, many women will sell their bodies. And a time of war/occupation will limit opportunities severely. People who think that none of them were there voluntarily are kidding themselves.

Japan should face up to their past, and their keeping of sex-slaves. But to try to claim they were all sex-slaves doesn't advance this issue, as it just provides an avenue for those who would detract from the issue by rightly claiming that they weren't all slaves.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

** cut their tongues

Another new addtion to complain from South Korea.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

But to say they were all sex slaves is to ignore the reality of life - when faced with little/no other options, many women will sell their bodies.

Admittedly some would have freely joined, but the overwhelming majority were coerced. That is the gravest injustice of all. Japan needs to stop bleating about the treaty of 1965 and do what is right by these unfortunate women. A direct meeting with Abe and an apology would do more to heal then any compensation ever would

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

This is japans shrine on japanese soil so they can do whatever they please, all other countries should mind their own business

@phoenixrising427 - nope, I dont buy your chinese propaganada. As far as i can tell most of the world afree the islands belong to japan and china is trying to steal them. Also don't forget the reason we have 2 koreas is because china interfered in the korean war and prevented the penninsula from being unified, it is chinas faulty we have crazy little man in power in the north.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This is japans shrine on japanese soil so they can do whatever they please, all other countries should mind their own business

Japan does not live in a vacuum, and to say that other countries should mind their own business is ignoring the current world circumstance.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

What an interesting argument, the Communist and their tributary state of Korea want folks to remember the comfort women. But, they try and make sure no one remembers the victims of their own aggressions. Now the odd thing is that these aggressions and war crimes have happen within the last 65 years.

Please note that World War II ended nearly 69 years ago and I am saying that Communist China and it's tributary state of Korea have committed and tried to hide their own war crimes and crimes against humanity.

For example crimes against Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia and the people of Communist China itself. So for the for Communist China and it's tributary state of Korea to try and make a claim of victim is a slap in the face of their own victims.

BTW Korea, tell me a tale, why did you have Comfort women camps for the U.S. during the Korean Conflict? Where is the outrage for these women? Oh wait, those women were called Western princess' and not Comfort women. So, it's A-Okay.

Hypocrisy is a mother when it is exposed.

Well, what of it?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Chairman Mao killed more than 50 million of his own people. At the outbreak of the Korean War, the milittary dictatorship executed more than 100,000 of their own people and buried them in mass graves. THE US military knew about the mass killings and in some cases even witnessed it and took photo's but did nothing to stop it from happening.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

off topic to mention the number of their own people killed by China and Korea?

Moderator: You have to at least refer to Abe's visit to Yasukuni shrine.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sex slaves, not prostitutes. World of difference. Oh, and this think proves that the 1965 treaty didn`t resolve the sex slaves issue http://www.japanfocus.org/-Totsuka-Etsuro/3885

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

aussie-musashiJan. 31, 2014 - 06:55PM JST

As you might remember, Korean comfort women filed quite a few law suites in the US against Japanese government around year 2000. All of them were turned down by US courts. Do you know of any successful one? It is high time that supporters stop using pseudo legal argument.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

tributary state of Korea

@JoeBigs

What is your obsession with calling SK a 'tributary state of Korea'?

A google search of "JoeBigs" and "tributary state" makes for an interesting reading.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

aussie-musashiFeb. 01, 2014 - 10:32AM JST Yet another link showing that the sex slaves issue was not resolved by the treaty of 1965 - which covered property >and economic issues only

Incorrect.

"in January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty. The documents, kept secret for 40 years, recorded that the Japanese government actually proposed to the Korean government to directly compensate individual victims but it was the South Korean government which insisted that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens and then received the whole amount of grants on behalf of the victims."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

All of them were turned down by US courts

Really? Not all, according to the following link. It seems the position of the sex slaves has the backing of the US government http://www.comfort-women.org/history.html

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I pray hard that the world future generation won't have to go thru' WAR again coz' of all the BLOCKED HEAD.......

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Mitch CohenFeb. 01, 2014 - 07:49AM JST What is your obsession with calling SK a 'tributary state of Korea'? "JoeBigs" and "tributary state"

The answer is simple, Communist China believes Korea is tributary state

In the minds of Communist China elites Korea is just another tributary state. And the way your politicians are fawning over each other to bend their knees before Xi, it will official sooner than later.

Hell, Park may demand that the U.S. forces depart Korea by years end if things keep going the way they are going.

Soon you may have to do away with any Gucci designer clothes and replace them with a drab gray jump suits....

Communist China has been dangling the reunification carrot in front of Park and the silly Korean Nationalist so long that they have fallen for the bait.

Park and her cohorts have fallen for it so hard that they have forgotten to ask the real obvious question, "who will lead Korea, Pyongyang or Seoul?".

If you think that Communist China will allow Seoul to be the new puppet state of the new Korean tributary state you and Park are sadly mistaken.

North Korea has all the tools in place that will allow Communist China to live happily ever after. But, sadly for the people of Korea that Communist happiness will be more Korean oppression, life will never be the same.

So get ready, when the end comes, and it will, Korea will have no one to blame but itself. But knowing how the tributary state thinks, they will try and find a way to blame Japan and the U.S. for their own misery.

People who can't accept the future have a way of dealing with disappointment that way, blame someone else for your own homemade misery, makes life easer to deal with.

But, that doesn't change the fact that it will be Korea's own darned fault.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is my guess. Because people die, many comfort women died. Since 1945, I can;r imagine all drafted comfort women are still alive. Why their family did not complain? The time was when Japanese called them with degrading vocabularies and they were not protected by Japanese laws. I am a Japanese but when I gave my too much rice and shrimps to my Korean classmate to get their kimuchi, my classmate said I will become garlic. I have loud big mouth and so shouted to my classmates. I was scary they said and they said I had to stop reading science books. People called them Chosen youbou in my area. Discrimination was severe, . If they complain anything, police arrested them, BTW kimuchi is good food. I am still alive and even use my big mouth on JT comment boards.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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