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China says Germans fine if their war atonement is compared to Japan

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That in fact isn't true. China requested that Xi Jinping be allowed to visit The Holocaust museum in Berlin. A request the German government has denied because they are uncomfortable with China continuously using Germany as how a country might deal with its war time past.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I'll bet China won't drop it's WW2 Germany comparison any time soon.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

China fought with Japan in 1930's with the help of Nazis Germany, which supplied China with military materials and technological know-how and was in turn supplied by China with militarily important stuff such as tungsten and antimony. But Hitler realized in mid course that China (Kuomintang) was not worthy of the role to contain Bolshevism. China might spare a little time to reflect upon such a role-playing game of history.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

It's Taiwan (ROC) that has the right to talk about Japan and WWII. But since they're civilized and don't harp on 70 year old history they don't. Maybe the world should harp on China (PRC) sending 250,000 troops to the Korean Peninsula and killing UN Troops from multiple counties. Why is such a country even on the Perm UNSC?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

China speaks with its big mouth of bad breath and is polluting the region and world! As they stand together with Russia as Russia invades Ukraine and China stays quiet as Russia supports the annexation and independence of Crimea, but shows total resistance of independence of Taiwan that has already been independent for the last 65 years. If China stands for others to break apart nations, Chin and the world should have no problem with Taiwan and its independence! No double standards here China!!!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Chinese diplomatic policy is simply pathetic. If after being clearly turned down (as clear as diplomatic language can get), they still try to drag Germany into their stupid Japan-bashing game.

Enough already.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Just plain spiteful. Quite childish and completely ridiculous of China.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

As usual, the CCP spews BS.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

German leaders can speak for themselves and don't need CCP lackeys trying to put words in their mouth. Since they don't appear to have made any comments on this, the likely situation is this is just another case of the CCP playing the clumsy fool and making, to put it nicely, odd statements. It is also strange they seem OK with clowns like Shi representing them.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It shows how dirty political games that communist China is playing without shame. Indeed, W. Germany reconciled with E. Germany and form a democratic country unlike China. What about Tibet? After WWII, Mao killed millions and they are worshiping him till today. Can China learn anything? no, China is too busy bullying the neighbors for self interest.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I don't know who is advising the Chinese Communist Party but I think their current propaganda offensive being rolled out internationally against Japan ... with everyone from top "diplomats" down to the cheapest 50 Cent Army social media activist and government granted foreign student using the same script ... is actually becoming counter productive.

It's so blatant, dishonest and smarmy that it's driving me to support Japan.

When the Chinese Communists say, "The whole world knows that" what they mean is, "You will think that".

They may be used to total control over people's thoughts and expressions at home, commie brainwash just does not work overseas.

Let's review the script ...

The Japanese are Nazis Abe is an extreme right winger Claim they've never apologized (repeating it makes it more true even if it is false) Drop a reference to "Unit 731" Then exclaim "the Senkakus are ours (on the basis of a falsified document that claims someone might have picked seaweed there once ... unlikely but may be)!

They are crass idiots. It's clear they are trying to demolish any international political sympathy and support for modern Japan, presumably, at some point, to square up with the USA in Asia.

I've actually seen one of their overseas "shows of force". An Chinese embassy sponsored protest/demonstration which appeared to bus in every Chinese overseas student and restaurant worker and was police by their own intelligence/security detail. It was frightening in it highly coordinated, uniformly equipped with flags, banners and scripts to shout, and totalitarian in nature.

One sensed attendance was not entire "voluntary". It was very Nazi-like, and this was in Austria.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

it is mentioned that German visitors from Gestapo were astonished to see what the Japanese were doing to their Chinese prisoners and told them: we do not practice at such extreme levels with anyone. After that they left.

lol, why are you making stuff up? Germans did exactly the same things during war.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Angry much over Merkel's denial to share a visit to the Holocaust and WWII memory places?

Typical from a certain country...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

China has become incredibly sanctimonious of late. If they expect anyone to really take them seriously, they're even dumber than I had thought.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@nedinjapan

The Germans carried out unspeakably horrible acts in their camps. Read about it. I could give a couple of examples, but I don't want to put those images in other people's minds....

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Xi and the Chinese regime - what a bunch of #ankers!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Well, they forgot we live in 2014!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It seems to me that China is not really feeling a winner because when you feel such feeling you dont need to keep talking about other nation in a provocative way always. I have realized that Japan is not really caring about China, but focusing on ways to improve her economy and other domestic problems things that China is not focusing so much.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

And yet again this is China trying to be the mouthpiece of other countries. First they 'spoke' for Russia (along the lines of "Russia said they agreed with us") and now Germany - oh no, hang on, they said GERMANS were fine for China to compare them to Japan. Wow, that's a whole different thing.

So I went out in the street and conducted a quick poll: Do you think China has double standards claiming its citizens are still hurt by Japan's supposed reluctance to admit the harm it inflicted on the Chinese people, when it won't admit its own, more recent harm inflicted on the same people, only a lot more recently.

Now get this: "Japanese say it's okay to highlight China's refusal to face up to its own cruelty and denial of history."

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Strange how a representative for China is saying how Germany is fine with being compared to Japan. Sounds like a case of putting words in somebody (in this case a whole nation's) mouth. SMH

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Business as usual best understood under the hammer and sickle.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's just more "aiguo" related spin from the CCP to keep that racist fire alive.

Germany has already said they don't want to be involved in this China-Japan dispute. That should say enough.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The Germans have never kicked up a fuss ... This is the difference between Germans and Japanese, how they face up to history. The whole world knows that.”

Yes, let's have China speak about Tibet and Tienanmen Square some as I know they haven't faced up to their own history. Pot, meet kettle.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If there was chinese lobby in US during IIWW japan like germany but no chinese lobby no faults for Japan government after war.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Comparisons between Japan and Germany in terms of the way they have dealt with the war are not without merit.

However, the validity of any such comparisons is relative to who is making them. China? Nah...Doesn't really fly.

Another point to consider, is that the German remorse shown for the war is is exaggerated and idealized as being unanimous throughout Germany. This is not the case. There are right winged groups and neo-Nazis, and even octogenarians who fought in the war, who are German and who are wholeheartedly dismissive of Germany's culpability. For the most part, though the zeitgeist in Germany is one of contrition. This is not the case in Japan, at least within mainstream politics. However, the Chinese who are brainwashed by the legacy of the personality of the cult of Mao are equally in no position whatsoever to make any historical analogies.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

over the war against Japan ah, so it's actually a war against Japan for China now?!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

highball7Mar. 09, 2014 - 04:02PM JST

There were and this is by international consensus that about 3-10 millions killed by Japanese between 1937-1945. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

Since China has a poor Census control system, the # of Chinese deaths are considered as conservative and the local estimate is up to 30 million Chinese killed or missing.

But let's just go with the 3-10million since nothing the Chinese says matter to Japan.

You are now classified as "a rivisionist by Chinese standard". You know they have no room for compromise with regard to history.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's very simple really.

-Germany is a sovereign state and can speak for themselves. -Germany have stated that they do not wish to be drawn into the dispute between China and Japan. While they have had views to Japan about being more "honest about its past", this does not invalidate its wishes and its rights to be not forcibly drawn into the dispute. -China, a separate sovereign entity, has no right to be claiming to speak for Germany at all.

If China is trying to speak for Germany, they simply choose not to respect the sovereign rights of another country (in them stating that they don't wish to get involved) by dragging them through the mud into this dispute.

Yes, please note the emphasis on the word "sovereign/sovereignty", as the CCP absolutely adores to use it in their speeches to supposedly show their "resolute and unyielding ".

0 ( +1 / -1 )

TohkaMar. 10, 2014 - 09:21PM JST If China is trying to speak for Germany, they simply choose not to respect the sovereign rights of another country (in them stating that they don't wish to get involved) by dragging them through the mud into this dispute.

Germany has to listen to China. Why? Because entire Europe is still in a fragile state. German economy would have certainly been the first to suffer in the case of a commercial war since almost 50% of European exports to China come from Germany. So when the Chinese want to talk to Europe, it is the Germans that they turn to. It was Merkel who managed to convince them last year that the euro crisis could be overcome. And despite the friendship there seems to be between Germans and Chinese, Merkel is, without doubt, the European head of state.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Alex80 Mar. 11, 2014 - 06:00AM JST Germany but do you know what the EU should be? It should serve the interests of all the partners, not only the interests of Germany. For this reason anti-German feelings are increasing in South-Europe.

Agreed. All the countries that seem to be in trouble now are those that had weak currencies compared to the value of the Euro. How could these countries have been able to afford to enter the single monetary system without extensive borrowing? This the root cause of problems these countries face. And Germany is sticking it to smaller countries who are supposedly partners.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Alex80Mar. 11, 2014 - 08:09AM JST Germany's conduct in Europe isn't perfect, she has not a national debt problem but she isn't respecting EU trade surplus rules.

But neither Merkel, not any European politician, has ever bothered to sell Europe as a true union, and by that I mean more than a fiscal or monetary union. I am talking about the emotive elements of shared identity. At the same time, though, Germans feel the Euro to be a haven for injustice. They, like most people, feel this whole sorry business represents a fabrication of crisis, one of our own making.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In WW2 there was more to the German war machine than the hateful act of rounding up and murdering jews. There was also the purely military aspect of the war... such as the invasion of Russia and the way that certain troops (mostly Waffen SS) treated the Russians as sub-human, torching villages and raping and killing as they went. The German forces laid waste to vast swathes of Europe, along with their Italian, Austrian and Cossak allies, delivering their scorched earth policy on a grand scale. Germans also used slave labour to a large degree, with von Braun even using concentration camp labour and POWs to work on his rockets.

That the Germans have shown remorse for their wartime acts is well known, but as has been stated there are still veterans alive in the likes of Bavaria who saw the war as an adventure, and look back on it fondly. Remember, not all Germans were Nazis, some of them were just right wing Teutonic nutters who couldn't give a damn about Jews.

Unlike Japan, however, Germany never renounced war, and have taken part in combat missions since the end of the Cold War... such as the Balkans and Afghanistan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

While China is certainly not in position to castigate others about their history. Neither are Japanese right-wingers. One of the right wing arguments is that expansion into Asia was to free it from white colonialism, How can this be reconciled with forming an alliance with the most notorious white supremacists the world has ever known?

In a diary entry dated March 20, 1942, Goebbels writes:

"The Fuhrer is full of admiration for the Japanese army. Aside from that, however, he naturally views the ascendancy of the Japanese in East Asia and the recession of the white man with certain misgivings..."

So there can be no doubt that one of the fundamental flaws in right wing Japanese dogma is guilt by association. However, for Chinese, brain washed under Mao, there is little that fact can do to change the darkness of their own history. Casting shadows on the history of others doesn't necessarily serve to make your own history that much brighter. That is something that every nation, without exception, should take into account. And that is the failing of all nationalists the world over.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I see my comment about the special relation between Germany and China wasn't appreciated. This article could be useful for you.

http://ecfr.eu/content/entry/China_and_Germany_a_new_special_relationship

Or also this:

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/germany-and-china-a-special-relationship/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

As global power shifts eastward, Germany and China are building a “special relationship” that risks undermining Europe’s overall position with the rising Asian giant and may have serious consequences for the balance of power between Europe and China, according to a hard-hitting new report from a European Union think tank.

But Germany simply doesn't care about the struggling EU economy, till she has this special relation with China...She forgot how we, the Europeans, helped Germany economically after her unification, not China.

How Germany is hurting EU economy: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101189415

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Merkel is, without doubt, the European head of state.

And do you think this is good? Everyone here praises Germany but do you know what the EU should be? It should serve the interests of all the partners, not only the interests of Germany. For this reason anti-German feelings are increasing in South-Europe.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@sfjp330: you see, South-European countries are struggling because of austerity measures - strongly supported by Germany - to fix their national debts, but believe me, these measures are excessive, people are not able to pay tons of taxes anymore. This policy is destroying our economies and creating a huge unemployment. Germany's conduct in Europe isn't perfect, she has not a national debt problem but she isn't respecting EU trade surplus rules. Read this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-05/eu-forecasts-bigger-german-trade-surplus-amid-policy-criticism.html

“We will discuss this question next week,” EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn told reporters in Brussels after the commission published economic forecasts. He said Germany has exceeded the EU guideline of a 6 percent surplus limit since 2007.

And which is Germany's answer to this?

Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government bridled last week at a U.S. Treasury report that rebuked German surpluses as a drain on European and global growth. Germany, which accounts for almost a third of the euro-area economy and views itself as a model for the 17-member bloc, said last week the critique was “not justified” and that exports were a sign of strength.

Germany’s Economy Ministry said on Oct. 31 that surpluses “are a sign of the competitiveness of the German economy and global demand for quality products from Germany.”

Instead to admit they are violating EU rules, they see themselves like superior, as usual. They always say to us what we must do:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325516/Germany-tells-France-Italy-just-work-harder-solve-economic-woes.html

Italy and France need to work 'harder and faster' to resolve their structural problems, a senior ally of German chancellor Angela Merkel said today. Michael Meister, a key figure in Merkel's Christian Democrats, said: 'Italy and France have structural problems to resolve and not economic problems. 'They can't wait any longer. More time won't relieve the problem. It'll only make it worse.' However, French president Francois Hollande warned that the EU's austerity policy was threatening the continent's stability and could even see Europe 'wiped out from the world map'.

while they don't accept any criticism and they are becoming always more friendly with China, so they don't care so much if they are disliked in some EU countries, like in Greece. And about Greece, while they apologize for their Nazi past aggression, when it's about compensation their answer is always the same: the case is closed.

When I see in this site all these comments about how perfect Germany is, honestly I can't help to feel a bit of frustration. Come here in Europe, and ask South European people how they see currently Germany.

In general people can have forgiven them for their past war crimes, but many of them can't accept how they are acting now.

So, it's not really important how Germany is, according to China, to many of us South-Europeans. I respect Germany, but I think they never stopped feeling superior and this is why they are isolating themselves in Europe. China propaganda won't change my current view of Germany. Only Germany can do it, changing attitude and acting more humble, working together with her EU partners if she trusts them, or she can leave and become a Chinese ally, at this point.

I'm not saying Italy, Spain or Greece don't have their faults, my message wasn't this, but I hope you can see how Germany isn't working WITH her partners but against them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Some people here sound so naive at the point they are cute. Germany is actually okay with Japan bashing because Japan is a big competitor for Germany, while Chinese market became very important for Germany. China buys a lot of goods from Germany, and Germany agrees with sharing her know-how with China. It's a win win situation, and this is also why Germany doesn't care if South-Europe countries are struggling because of German-centric EU economic policy of austerity.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

IMO it is unfortunate, and even scary, that Japanese tend to deny the history of the Japanese Empire.

There is a saying about those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Since Japan turns a blind eye to their history, can we trust that they have truly turned their backs on right-wing imperialism and xenophobia?

The issue of the disputed territories is another matter. Ideally the countries involved can work cooperatively to develop the mineral resources of the areas.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@lucabrasi I totally agree. They both did horrible things. With the Japanese, it was even worse because they considered their victims to be "logs" (Maruta). The horror movie "hostel" would be a normal everyday job at 731 labs.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The Chinese may be vehement whiners, but even a broken clock is right sometimes. And in this case, the comparison of German atonement to Japanese atonement is entirely appropriate. The Germans have atoned to a level that has been satisfactory to the majority of the world. The Japanese have not.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

@Nenand

If you read through information existing about 731 atrocities and the like, it is mentioned that German visitors from Gestapo were astonished to see what the Japanese were doing to their Chinese prisoners and told them: we do not practice at such extreme levels with anyone. After that they left. So maybe in numbers, Germans killed more people especially the Jewish, but the brutality shown by the Japanese was much worse. They commonly ripped apart people's bodies with no anesthesia nor any painkillers.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Comparisons between Japan and Germany in terms of the way they have dealt with the war are not without merit.

However, the validity of any such comparisons is relative to who is making them. China? Nah...Doesn't really fly.

Not really. The comparison is valid regardless of who makes it. It just happens that when the accuser is a country like China, people also think 'but who are they to be making the comparison'. It doesn't change the accuracy of the actual comparison itself.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

When the Chinese Communists say, "The whole world knows that" what they mean is, "You will think that".

There are no communists in China, as it's not a communist country.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I'm pretty sure MOST of the Japanese citizens since the end of WWII generation have atoned.

I'm pretty sure SOME of the Japanese politicians since the end of WWII generation have also atoned.

I'm VERY sure that MANY as in the MAJORITY of the politicians CURRENTLY have NOT atoned. Because if they have, you will not be in such mess. Look at it from an outsider's POV, when we talk about politics and social issues in Japan from a foreigner's standpoint, everything about Japan is sex slave/comfort women, Yasukuni Shrine, Abe's foot in mouth, Japan's aging population, the failing of Abenomics, the rising inflation vs. the lack of increase in corporate salary growth, beef with China, South Korea, North Korea, and Taiwan and most importantly, getting on US's bad side with a loud mouth Abe aide's selfie speech on youtube.

Atonement is not about past atonement. Its about current and future atonement about the past and how you reflect on the past.

Clearly, the current political and social climate in Japan is not about atonement on the past. Instead, its about glorification on its imperial past and denial of horrific crimes against humanity.

There were 6 million Jews killed and about another million gypsies killed by the Nazi. This # is a combination of documentation and estimates.

There were and this is by international consensus that about 3-10 millions killed by Japanese between 1937-1945. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

Since China has a poor Census control system, the # of Chinese deaths are considered as conservative and the local estimate is up to 30 million Chinese killed or missing.

But let's just go with the 3-10million since nothing the Chinese says matter to Japan. I think this # is worthy of Japan's atonement in eternity. You should follow the Germans on atonement. When you have this many millions in death, the killing has to be systematic and with a purpose of eradication and control. Making it a genocide.

The fact that you people still worship the war criminals that ordered and acted upon these killings is borderline psychotic and unforgivable. But that's just my opinion.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Of course they are fine, they did ten times worse crimes, you cant insult Germans with that.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Japanese leaders have repeatedly apologised for suffering caused by the country’s wartime actions, including a landmark 1995 apology by then prime minister Tomiichi Murayama. But remarks by conservative politicians periodically cast doubt on Tokyo’s sincerity.

Western reporters should stop being so lazy, and constantly repeating what they have read, and really do their own reporting, and understand what's happening in the Japanese Diet sessions. It doesn't take much to even do a basic research on Youtube to find out what these Japanese politicians are really saying internally. We're way beyond the 1995 apology stage, that it's not even funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gucs-6lHtkc&feature=youtu.be

Japan has gotten a total free ride for decades, due to the protection from the United States. It's time this ridiculous free ride stops.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

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