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China sets air defense zone over area containing disputed islands

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China is asking for something they aren't even sure they can win.

25 ( +33 / -8 )

So this belligerent nation continues to use bully tactics on its neighbours, instead of taking the opportunities presented to it to at least discuss the issues.

Japan should just send the SDF there to defend its property and shoot at anything that intrudes into its space, if that means shooting down aircraft or sinking boats then so be it. Maybe then the paper tiger might realise that its sole aircraft carrier will not be enough to stand over all its neighbours and pull its ugly head in.

17 ( +26 / -9 )

China stop being dumb. thousands of people in the Phillipines and all you are concerned is about this islands?

16 ( +23 / -7 )

" South Korea and Taiwan also claim the barren, uninhabited islands in the East China Sea. "

Hang on. South Korea also claims the Senkakus? Since when? Either the article writer was sloppy, or he knows something we don´t.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

This is China's gamble - have Japan start notifying them, which they believe will then be evidence of Japan acknowledging China's authority and control over the Senkakus, or risk an exchange of live fire. China is gambling that Japan will choose to start notifying them.

Japan, being pushed into a corner, must - absolutely must - be prepared to exchange live fire with China's military. Appeasement will not work because China is clearly not interested in letting this dispute die down.

23 ( +28 / -5 )

"also claimed by Japan"?

should be "administered" or "owned" or "occupied" by Japan

11 ( +17 / -6 )

The Chinese are no doubt hoping Japan will appease them. That is a very dangerous assumption. I predict China will engage in brinksmanship, shots will be fired, and and then China, assuming it has made its point, will withdraw. The same things happened on the Indian, Soviet and Vietnamese borders in years past.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Wow. This is the true China.

By shifting the goalposts they have just granted themselves permission to engage the Japanese in and around these islands. It's provocative, and threatens to seriously destabilise the region.

I think the International community might need to wade in here, because it could get ugly.

17 ( +21 / -4 )

Looks like the cards are on the table. Shouldn't take for Japan to violate this new zone. Could be tonight.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

This overlaps with the air defense identification zone that Japan has set already. This is called encroachment.

15 ( +20 / -5 )

I'm sad, Tokyo has no choice. Stand by for wars with China. Get the secrecy bill passed and prepare for any honey traps or whatever. And discourage J companies to invest there.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Packing my bags right now.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Any pretense China maintains that it is a peaceful country just went out the door.

15 ( +20 / -5 )

why doesn't the article refer to the islands by name? I wasn't sure if the same islands at first.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

China has used force in territorial disputes before. So all of those who say there is nothing to worry about are kidding themselves. Which is okay by me - if you are that stupid, go ahead and live in a fantasy world. In the meantime, I'm glad that Japan is getting serious about defending it's territory.

Classic bullying behaviour is used by China because it knows it's claims will not be seen as reasonable by the international community. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent - and the unjust it seems as well. China is East Asia's version of the neighbourhood thug.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Look at the timing of this...GW is due in port next week. Trying to catch Japan with its pants down around their ankles ...I think China will be stupid enough to take the first shots...if they do then all hell will break out here because there no way Japan will buck down from this and will have USA support...probably global support as well.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

CHINA is very stupid, surprise?? China can not win, so as they SCREW their OWN people, they think they can also push others around like slaves?? Sorry CHINA, time to wake up and REALIZE the whole world is against CHINA for not only being a bully, but for being stupid, greedy and always full of BS propaganda that not even their own people believe!! So CHINA, please try and CLEAN UP your own country!! Clean up your own mess with your own people and with TIBET and with the poor MUSLIM minorities etc...stop trying to screw with smaller countries like the Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, or very soon not only these smaller countries, but INDIA, RUSSIA, the USA etc..will really start to get riled and the BIG LOOSER WILL BE CHINA, heck even the average AFRICAN is angry at how the CHINESE are raping that continent!!

9 ( +14 / -5 )

I have lost all respect for China. Thousands have died in the Philippines, and millions are displaced. This is no time for raising tensions in the region.

15 ( +18 / -4 )

China should have done this earlier. Great job!

-25 ( +6 / -30 )

I would be very interested to see how former governor Ishihara, who precipitated this crisis and vowed to personally protect these islands now intends to make good on his word.

Oh look, he's no longer involved. So it looks like the SDF and the taxpaying public now get to step up and honour his wager.

What a tremendous surprise.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

On the flip side, what's going on in China that the Commies want to distract the public from?

11 ( +16 / -5 )

I also would like to see Ishihara, who started this current escalation along with the Chinese, get back in the media spotlight again.

He seems to have conveniently disappeared. I wonder how much he has cost Japan and it's companies so far.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

I see Speed and oxy...kings still hadn't figured out who is the real aggressor here. If we insist Ishihara provoked the situation, we should thank him. Most likely China really wanted to wait a few more years while they can more covertly improve their Correlation of Forces before they pull off the cover and get aggressive, but Ishihara caught them in a period where they no longer feel like (from their warped viewpoint) that they have to suffer it but are not really ready.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Don't forget that plenty of Japanese companies have HUGE factories in China.

I dare say Japan needs Chinese business more than China needs Japanese business.

I'd say this is a fairly well thought out gamble on China's part.

This is what they've been doing for years. Slightly overstepping their bounds, and then seeing how the International Community reacts. Each time resulting in a bit more wiggle room, since pretty much everybody is terrified of getting cut off from a billion potential customers.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

its about payback for what japan did in the war or at least the last one we remember and will never forget. give it to em!

-21 ( +5 / -25 )

Best way to stop a bully is to punch them in the nose, that way they know not to mess with you.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Another article on Washington Post wrote that ".. any non-commercial aircraft entering a broad zone over the East China Sea must first identify themselves to Beijing, at the risk of facing “defensive emergency measures” from Chinese armed forces..".

So if any foreign military planes approache China's eastern broad zone, should China just sit there and do nothing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-creates-new-air-defense-zone-in-east-china-sea-amid-dispute-with-japan/2013/11/23/c415f1a8-5416-11e3-9ee6-2580086d8254_story.html

-13 ( +2 / -14 )

This is what they've been doing for years. Slightly overstepping their bounds, and then seeing how the International Community reacts. Each time resulting in a bit more wiggle room, since pretty much everybody is terrified of getting cut off from a billion potential customers.

LOL. Do you see Keidanren demanding Abe to ease tensions between China? Nope.

Saw their "Zone" Map. Too much to cover, IMO. Just another posturing to feed their brainwashed masses.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Chinese hegemony, classic establishment of, plain for the world to see.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Are some 'barren, uninhabited' islands really worth fighting over?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

“China is playing a dangerous game here"

Japan started it. Now Japan has to end it by returning the islands to the rightful owner, China.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the provocation of China is nothing else than a screen , to hide his interiour problems with it's population and minorities in the West of China , and , if China attacted Japan , they must remember that the free nations , buy their products

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Remember the JSDF practice exercise recently? It's about to become an actual performance.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I pray for the peace in the region. China is asking for a fight.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

China has drawn several of these maps with dotted lines laying claim to much of Asia, even printing new passports with the maps inside, managing to p1ss off most of her neighbors. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/11/passport4.jpg

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Didn't China also claim Okinawa recently? So, I have trouble taking any of their claims seriously.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Let them go as far as they like, then strike hard at all elements of the CCP. Be more ruthless than the communists and tear down this final vestige of the 20th centuries biggest mistake - the continued existence of communists dictatorship over the most populated region on earth.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Forget about Bo Xilai, pollution, and all the politicians getting rich; we'll make you hate Japanese for an Island that they've controlled for over 100 years.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I guess we'll just see what happens when China next buzzes the islands with one of their outdated little cold-war era fighters and Japan sends out its much newer, much better equipped squadron of fighters. Abe is probably rubbing his hands with glee. He's entitled under the current constitution to "self-defense". If a Chinese fighter engages the Japanese squadron over Japanese territory he'll have the moral high ground to motivate for all the defense spending he could possibly want, and it will be easy to get a motion passed removing the size limits on the Japanese SDF. ... which would be a big step towards his dream of renewing the Japanese Empire.

... Oh, and the U.S. would be pushed into showing whether it is going to support Japan militarily (an attack over Japanese territory is pretty clear-cut in terms of the treaty), and whichever way they jump it'll suit Abe's agenda.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

If you want to see a related cheeky new map, read this article re the 'tenth' dotted line... http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/chinas-new-map-just-another-dash/

Mapcreep?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All upper comments are wrong sumptions. China never falled in recent 60 years. It's Japan that is keeping telling himself that China is inefficient. Actually, If you can recall all the things recently, the more Japan did the bigger Japan lost. How the define this?

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

so what? it's China's island.

Let's see what those right wing nuts can do about it.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

which would be a big step towards his dream of renewing the Japanese Empire.

Wow, I hope not. That would mean the Emperor might gain the power to dismiss Diet members at will. You know, like he cannot do now.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I wonder what Mao would think of all the children of rich Politburo members running around Chinese cities. It's as if what he fought against came to be once again.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

This is not a uninhabited barren island. The real treasure is the kilometers of sea around that boring rock.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Hang on. South Korea also claims the Senkakus? Since when? Either the article writer was sloppy, or he knows something we don´t.

No it doesn't. But here is the South Korean link showing the map of what the China is claiming, and it goes all the way up, almost to the sea in front of South Korea's Jeju Island.

http://news.naver.com/main/ranking/read.nhn?mid=etc&sid1=111&rankingType=popular_day&oid=003&aid=0005519356&date=20131123&type=1&rankingSeq=1&rankingSectionId=104

This is also going to make South Korea very unhappy. The Korean comment section at Naver was also flooded with fanatical Chinese nationalists promising after they take care of Japan, they'll deal with Korea.

It's sometimes very difficult for Koreans to live sandwiched in between two very big unreasonable countries.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

What's the big deal about China's Air Defense Zone? Japan established Air Defense Zone years ago with much bigger geographical territory. So, what's the big deal for China's air defense zone? Would it be a good opportunity for Japan and China to talk about how to share Air Defense Zone? :)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Haha ... seriously. Those commies are brain dead.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Just one more political move to show that they are nowhere near to back down yet. In practicality I guess the Chinese fighters and Japanese fighters have to tell each other that they are actually flying here. Japan still claims sovereignty and keep the right to shoot down Chines aircraft if they come to close. Still strange that China keeps showing stupidity (like this act) as there main diplomacy. Hard to know what they are thinking? I had higher hopes.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I say if China wants war, then give them war! I would rather be dead than live under a Chinese dictatorship, or even be influenced by them to a significant degree. Real peace and happiness cannot be achieved by giving in to bullying tactics. Freedom is something that usually has to be fought for.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Chucky, I cannot believe you see that and still cannot make the correct conclusion.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

China is so full of itself. This law will sit in the books or they will get spanked in the field.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki,

My conclusion was both China and Japan have some serious problems with reality, and as Koreans, it's very difficult to live beside these two bigger countries. What China is doing is really stupid and unacceptable. But what Japan did to start all this, which was to nationalize the island in contention with China, and making bold provocative statements about history to give a rise out of China, is just as worse, if not even worse.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Chucky3176, nice link to the map mentioned in the article above. Thanks.

(See how the dotted line around the east of Taiwan is set to join up with this new red line!) :eek:

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The story from China is that this island was in the Chinese maps since the Ming dynasty(which is probably true because China used to be a very large country before the Opium wars) .But after WW2, America "mistakenly"returned this island to Japan. At that time China was so devastated by the wars(and weak) that when she tried to claim it, Japan has already settled on it, and the international world didn't move a finger. Poor China. And poor Japan, now that the island is Japanese, it certainly feels bad when somebody tries to take your property from you. Huh, the politics. That's why I prefer the sciences.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

"also claimed by Japan"? should be "administered" or "owned" or "occupied" by Japan

The fact is not only has Japan given up its claim to these islands but also its claim to the whole Kurile islands and Ryukyu islands according to the whole series of WWII peace treaties/agreements such as:

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) :

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we ( US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

San Francisco Peace Treaty

Article 2 (c)

Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands...

Article 3

Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg north latitude (i.e. including the Ryukyu Islands but excluding the Diaoyu islands)...

And the origin of Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty can be traced back to the following agreement made between the US and China during the Cairo Conference:

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization (UN trusteeship for decolonization that was established in 1945 and as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty)""

I see Speed and oxy...kings still hadn't figured out who is the real aggressor here.

Japan is certainly the aggressor since it is trying to regain territories it lost to the Allies in WWII by force.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

This is a provocative move by China which increases the likelihood of an armed conflict occurring either by accident or intent. It deliberately escalates the issue which appears to be the only thing that China is capable of doing. Ishihara did not start this as some have posted, it was China's reaction to the J-govt's attempt to quash Ishihara's plans in order to placate China. But Japan foolishly did not predict that China was simply waiting for a reason, any reason, to go open with their territorial expansion designs in the East China Sea. But in retrospect, Ishiihara was right, a structure and personel on the Senkakus would mean that China expanded it's ADIZ right over Japanese people. It is not too late for Japan to build on these islands.

Guru please stop flooding the board with your mile long copy & paste jobs of the same thing over and over again.

"16. QUOTING EXTERNAL ARTICLES: Please post a single paragraph and a link to the article. Posting of a full article will result in the post being edited to size."

http://www.japantoday.com/moderation_policy

3 ( +12 / -9 )

The truth is that all these mess wouldn't have happened if Ishihara and the Japanese Government didn't unilaterally nationalized those disputed islands.

But they did. Japan Pushed.

Best way to stop a bully is to punch them in the nose, that way they know not to mess with you.

And now, China is punching back.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Clearly China does not understand Japan or Japanese culture. China's plan is going to backfire on them and then what is China going to do, huff and puff even more or actually to try and blow the 'house' down? It's a lose, lose situation that China has now placed its self in and they have backed themselves into a corner that will have the world looking down on them. A very childish move on China's part. When will they ever grow up and learn? Clearly China isn't mature enough sit at the grown ups table just yet.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Well, I think now is real time to pull out all Japanese businesses from mainland China. Communist Chinese Government’s silly war game will lead to arms confrontation between two countries above Senkaku Islands. Now Chinese military is itchy to test its new toy Stealth fighter with Japanese Air Force’s Pilots.

Communist Chinese Government’s thugs will target Japanese businesses. Japanese Companies have to leave China with empty hands. Japanese business community needs to balance between profit and risk of losing investment, technology and nation lost face by greed of Japanese Companies.

I hope Prime Minister Abe will warn Japanese Companies who have business interest in China and signed new agreement to technology transfer to Chinese Company. If Japan has no trading with Communist China and then Communist Chinese Government can not bully Japan.

Communist Chinese Government is using Japanese investment in China as Japanese Government and Japanese peoples’ weak point. The more you invest in Communist China and the more you’re falling into Communist Chinese Government’s Honey trap.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Nice fantasy Kobuta Chan. Japan needs China far more than China needs Japan. Japan doesn't have the guts to severe its business in China and commit economic suicide. You think that the Chinese don't know this when they drafted up that map? Please Japan, wake up from your dream world that you're too important to be missed.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

chucky3176Nov. 23, 2013 - 11:18PM JST Nice fantasy Kobuta Chan. Japan needs China far more than China needs Japan. Japan doesn't have the guts to >severe its business in China and commit economic suicide. You think that the Chinese don't know this when they >drafted up that map? Please Japan, wake up from your dream world that you're too important to be missed.

The lack of any knowledge of how international trade works is always evidenced by the belief that any one country "needs" another country more or less than the other way around. Economies of nations, especially the top economies in the world, unlike less significant ones like SKorea, do not rely on any one other nation.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

This is increasingly becoming like the Falkland Islands. Will China wind up like Argentina?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I would rather be dead than live under a Chinese dictatorship

You said it sir. I can imagine no fate worse than being forced to live as a commie.

Clearly China isn't mature enough sit at the grown ups table just yet.

Too late for that. Already have a permanent seat on UNSC and effective veto power on anything that goes on in the world.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Japan should declare that was an illegal act by China and will take action for any encroachment in self defense. This is China 's one political party way, dictatorial and bully. American Force in the region should make clear to China as well of this illegal attempt without international resolve.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I live in Europe. I tell you, China has such a bad reputation here. Their attitude like this will further enforce that.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

I like the move. Would like to see who's gonna make the first shot.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Anyone who thinks the current situation is 100% the fault of China or 100% the fault of Japan is biased and misguided. Ishihara pushed by changing the status quo of the islands and a series of tit-for-tat moves have followed. Belligerent nationalists on both sides want to cheer their own country on in a war that they would personally go nowhere near. Japan and China should have been engaged in a positive dialogue about senkaku many years ago, but the political elites in both countries are too right-wing and too nationalistic to do anything sensible. It is really time for dialogue and for cool heads, not for getting ever more fired up and cranking up the rhetoric, which both sides are continually guilty of.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Guys, calm down little please, it’s not worth it to get your blood boiled or jump off a cliff when these sort of things occur between these two neighboring countries . You may have to get used to it as more are coming soon. :)

Here is the thing, unless both sides come to terms that neither country will easily have a victory dance when the high flares turns into a deadly armed conflict on those islets which would ruin both countries in in a nick of time, they will continue to be on the same predictable pattern to be aggressive and passive aggressive. Does anyone forget about Mr. Abe’s recently trip to 10 ASEAN countries with the uncovered purpose of reining and containing of its giant neighbor? There are no really "good guys" in territorial disputes.

Hopefully, they would realize that sitting down peacefully to sort and iron out the difference out is way better to get on each others nerves.

BTW, who people who might not be aware of this, The US has been consulted by the Chinese side for its newly defense move.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 12:30AM JST BTW, who people who might not be aware of this, The US has been consulted by the Chinese side for its newly >defense move.

Please provide a link to substantiate this statement. Thank you.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The US needs to move on this. This is crossing a line that goes nowhere good.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The US needs to move on this. This is crossing a line that goes nowhere good.

The US won't do/move anything on this, just like the US won't move on Dakdo, and Kuril Islands dispute. In the end, it is in the American's interest and benefit for these dispute to stay on and go on forever.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The US won't do/move anything on this, just like the US won't move on Dakdo, and Kuril Islands dispute. In the end, it is in the American's interest and benefit for these dispute to stay on and go on foreve

The US has a treaty agreement concerning the Senkakus. They have no agreement about the other situations you mention.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The US has a treaty agreement concerning the Senkakus. They have no agreement about the other situations you mention.

What is this written treaty agreement between US and Japan on Diaoyu island? Do you have any credible official links to it?

There have been few American politicians voicing support for Japan on this issue, because it is their way to dog Japan on to further their own interests on the region.

Divide and Conquer.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Look people, it was Japan first move to set up the so called Air Defence Identification Zone just last month, it just a tit-a-tat for China to include such Zone overlapping the disputed island. Japan has been hijacked by its right wing nationalist overtone who started all these fancy island nationalization. Abe govt just continued to stir up the honest net

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 12:30AM JST

BTW, who people who might not be aware of this, The US has been consulted by the Chinese side for its newly defense move.

This is a critical info I was not aware of and cannot let it go unnoticed..

Would you please provide written info I can read and evaluate? Thanks.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The PRC escalation continues and their Water Internet Army here continue to claim the role of victim.

It is high time that Article 9 goes the way of the dinosaur and become extinct.

Japan needs the tools in place to meet this aggression with greater and deadly aggression and at the rate that the PRC is going, my hopes will come true sooner than later.

The PRC believes that all they have to do is pressure the Japanese Government enough and they will get their way.

But, their over confidence has over ridden their thought process.

There is a whole lot more at stack than a chain of islands with lots of natural resources and the PRC's dangerous game has now gone up a notch.

The PRC is as over confident as the Qing dynasty was before they went to war with Japan in 1895.

The adage "history repeats itself" is dead on once again.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If China intends to take hostile actions against Japan and the rest of the international community, then they do this unilaterally and without support from the international community.

The consequences will be their own.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

OssanAmericaNov. 24, 2013 - 01:01AM JST

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 12:30AM JST BTW, who people who might not be aware of this, The US has been consulted by the Chinese side for its newly >defense move.

Please provide a link to substantiate this statement. Thank you.

globalwatcherNov. 24, 2013 - 03:52AM JST

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 12:30AM JST

BTW, who people who might not be aware of this, The US has been consulted by the Chinese side for its newly defense move.

This is a critical info I was not aware of and cannot let it go unnoticed..

Would you please provide written info I can read and evaluate? Thanks.

I guess I will just disregard his claim. His claim is not trustworthy.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The PRC is as over confident as the Qing dynasty was before they went to war with Japan in 1895. The adage "history repeats itself" is dead on once again.

The PRC has nukes and missiles while the Qing dynasty fought with swords and shields in the 1800s when Japan invaded China. And the current Japan has got too many nuclear power plants which Meiji Japan did not have.

Just by attacking the numerous nuclear power plants with anti-radiation missiles and regular missiles, China can turn Japan into an uninhabitable land any time it chooses to do so.

The reality is that Japan will not be able to win a war with China as long as it can't stop the high-speed and GPS guided Chinese missiles.

Anyway, the following is the latest message from China regarding Japan's failure to learn from history:

"Japan’s years of militarism and war of aggression have brought grave disaster to countries in Asia. Only when (it) learns from history can it open up to the future, only by adhering to the path of peace can it win its neighbors’ trust."

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

OssanAmerica & globalwatcher,

I can only guess what might be thinking when you posed your legitimate follow-up questions and concerns.:)

On the other hand, I also know you are intelligent and are able to understand that not many of REAL dealings taken places behind closed door between the US and its friends or foes are broadcasted on twitter or internet instantly per se.

If you are patient enough, many info are subject to statute of limitation.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 07:37AM JST

OssanAmerica & globalwatcher,

I can only guess what might be thinking when you posed your legitimate follow-up questions and concerns.:)

On the other hand, I also know you are intelligent and are able to understand that not many of REAL dealings taken places behind closed door between the US and its friends or foes are broadcasted on twitter or internet instantly per se.

If you are patient enough, many info are subject to statute of limitation.

Many real deals are usually negotiated behind the curtain. However, you are responsible what you have said that is a very critical information in time of crisis. Did you really know if China has approached to the Washington how to deal with Japan? YES or NO. I just cannot let it go as this is very, very serious in US/Japan Peace Treaty. That's all I want to know.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

EthanWilberNov. 24, 2013 - 07:37AM JST OssanAmerica & globalwatcher, I can only guess what might be thinking when you posed your legitimate follow-up questions and concerns.:) On the other hand, I also know you are intelligent and are able to understand that not many of REAL dealings taken >places behind closed door between the US and its friends or foes are broadcasted on twitter or internet instantly per >se. If you are patient enough, many info are subject to statute of limitation.

So I take it that you are unable to substantiate the claim you made.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Just by attacking the numerous nuclear power plants with anti-radiation missiles and regular missiles, China can turn Japan into an uninhabitable land any time it chooses to do so.

The world would see this as a nuclear attack, no different from using a Nuke warhead. You really think the Chinese want to start a nuclear exchange??

@Evian1

it was Japan first move to set up the so called Air Defence Identification Zone just last month

I can't find any info on your claim that Japan did this "a month ago" Do you have a link?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Guru29Nov. 24, 2013 - 07:20AM JST

Just by attacking the numerous nuclear power plants with anti-radiation missiles and regular missiles, China can turn Japan into an uninhabitable land any time it chooses to do so.

Police station never gives a notice of arrest that they are coming to arrest you. Hope you know what I mean. If China even hint the idea as you have mentioned, China is declaring a war against the world. We will beat you to a hell.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Considering that Washington's position has always been and remains that the status quo may not be changed by the use of force, and that all parties should refrain from escalating the issue, the probability that China's new AIDZ is in any way with the consultation of the U.S,., is improbable to the extent of being ludicrous. The largest U.S. military presence in Asia and gateway for region operations is Okinawa Prefecture. Why would the U.S. agree to let China include the Senkakus, a part of Okinawa Prefecture, in it's AIDZ? It appears to me that China has thumbed it's nose at the U.S. position that there should be no escalation, and is about to test Article 5 of the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Police station never gives a notice of arrest that they are coming to arrest you. Hope you know what I mean. If China even hint the idea as you have mentioned, China is declaring a war against the world. We will beat you to a hell.<

Had a pretty good laugh, action speak louder than words, talk the talk and walk the walk, don't just blow cold air.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

OssanAmericaNov. 24, 2013 - 08:53AM JST

It appears to me that China has thumbed it's nose at the U.S. position that there should be no escalation, and is about to test Article 5 of the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty.

Ossan, you and I are on the same page on this.

1) Today, a newly appointed Ambassador to Japan; Caroline Kennedy inspected the Yokota Air Force Base Tokyo, Japan and she was pleased to find its readiness in the time of conflict while she emphasized that Japan is the most important allied for US.

2)Chuck Hagel at Washington and Kerry at Geneva expressed warnings to China that China is gambling a dangerous game reported by CNN tonight. US is cautiously evaluating the situation today. This is very serious.

3)U.S. Says Disputed Islands Covered by Japan Defense Treaty

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-21/u-s-says-disputed-islands-covered-by-defense-treaty-with-japan.html

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Guru29,

China has 17 nuke plants with 30 more on the way. Everybody and their brother has missiles. Everybody is vulnerable to attack. Japan's right wing is in power precisely because nobody believes China is "adhering to the path of peace."

The truth of the matter is that the world can't afford another large scale war. The passive aggressive build up between Japan and China will eventually result in somebody doing something that sets off a result that nobody really wants.

Every 50 years or so, people who are at peace forget what it's like to be in a war. They really shouldn't. Looking forward, Russia will side with China, and the US will side with Japan. Things will get out of control quickly. Just stop now.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

I am a 100% sure that US has not been consulted by China about this ADIZ. Don't worry, Japanese are not that stupid to believe such a nonsense considering all the international circumstances going on.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Following from the United States Dept of Defense today.

Hagel Issues Statement on East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Nov. 23, 2013 – Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel issued the following statement today on China’s announcement that it is establishing an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East China Sea: "The United States is deeply concerned by the People's Republic of China announcement today that it is establishing an air defense identification zone in the East China Sea. We view this development as a destabilizing attempt to alter the status quo in the region. This unilateral action increases the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculations. "This announcement by the People's Republic of China will not in any way change how the United States conducts military operations in the region. "The United States is conveying these concerns to China through diplomatic and military channels, and we are in close consultation with our allies and partners in the region, including Japan. "We remain steadfast in our commitments to our allies and partners. The United States reaffirms its longstanding policy that Article V of the U.S.-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty applies to the Senkaku Islands."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=121223

5 ( +6 / -1 )

-Sigh- Anyone else getting bored of the sound of Chinese Sabres rattling? I know I am, and yet they're at it again. It's really quite pathetic. I really hope it turns out like the Falklands, but with less actual violence. Round one (the actual Falklands War) resulted in victory for Britain, at cost. Round two (a bout of Sabre rattling from Argentina earlier this year if I recall correctly, which I probably don't actually) ended with Argentina shutting up after Britain provided irrefutable evidence that the Falklands are a British Overseas Territory, and have been since before the formation of the Republic of Argentina. I'm hoping that China finally matures and stops flexing its muscles. Japan has provided evidence of sovereignty dating back to 1895. China has provided heresay and conjecture dating back to the Ming Dynasty. Because that would hold up in a court. "I say it's mine first, therefore it's mine." No. That's not the way the world works. China has no right to include the Senkakus in its Air Defense Zone. This is just posturing from China to distract from their horrendous pollution output and their lack of aid in the Phillipines. Who they're trying to distract though isn't exactly clear to me.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Well as far as the United States is concerned China is just playing with themselves.

"The defense chief made clear that the United States, which stations more than 70,000 troops in Japan and South Korea, would not respect China's declaration of control over the zone."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h53sxLjtViNoRxzXPa09R_n5tPVA?docId=2dee3ca4-ff12-460b-8161-cff4f78a1c48

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"We remain steadfast in our commitments to our allies and partners. The United States reaffirms its longstanding policy that Article V of the U.S.-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty applies to the Senkaku Islands."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=121223

Great assurance. Thanks Ossan for this post.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

China still seems to be delirious, firmly believing that the area is their turf. The best way to undermine your enemies is to encroach into an area that doesn't belong to you and simply put your markers there to make it look for you as if it's yours. Then decide that anyone who intrudes your illusory air space will be dealt with. I've expected China to be smarter than that! I thought only kids in a kindergarten playing act like this.

In any case, I hope for the last couple of pro-Chinese, non-Chinese-patriots, this shows you the true side of China. The only way to kill a huge, red cockroach is by starving it ... that means economic starving!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The only way to kill a huge, red cockroach is by starving it ... that means economic starving!

Economic sanction? Not bad idea, but too many business outside of China will starve first. That's the problem.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Belligerent nationalists on both sides want to cheer their own country on in a war that they would personally go nowhere nea

This statement is straight to the core of the issue. Before 2012, there were no major issues with any of the Islands, only the occasional skirmish or rightist nut from any one country claiming them, latter to be arrested. It was all dismissed as business as usual. When a certian individual, who many here seem to naively think he is some friend of the U.S., saw an opportunity to snap Japan out of its maliase, jumped at it and things have been predictable ever sense. Sorry, I dont buy the "dangerouse times" line; there wasnt any thing dangerouse before 2012, it has since been all manufactured. Chinese expansionism is recongnized, but the island issue has been going on for decades. The certian individual would like to have Japan his way, without outside help or interference and has cleverly manipulated events to fit his agenda. Subsequent events have all been predictable, but I must say they are moving much faster than I anticipated. Before one responds with rants that Im a commie; there is no more true communism, only nationalism. A Japanese nationalist and a Chinese nationalist are cut from the same cloth. Both must be watched closely before either of their agendas become a reality.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Its funny to see that there are some commentators trying to defend the Chinese act of aggression. However they seem to be perfectly without arguments, of any kind. Makes you wonder why they post at all. The Chinese aggression can not be more clear than this, short of a military invasion. Please understand that your posts can only be read as a declaration of your own state of non-rational mind. In practicality I don't think we will see any Chinese fighters chasing Japanese fighters over the Senkakus. The statement give them the right to sit on their homeland doing nothing.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

For all the war mongers or chicken hawk fantasy types, lets play out the scenarios:

An incident occurs, and its game on. Japan wins, due to superior technology and with the support of ally countries. China looses face, and is burned by being defeated twice. China, both Koreas and possibly Tawain are isolated, and unite against a bloating Japan. Now what? How do you undo such a mess? Can you say "destablized region"?

It is for this reason nationlism is dangerous.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@Mike said"A Japanese nationalist and a Chinese nationalist are cut from the same cloth"

There is no evidence Japan being a nationalist.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"There is no evidence Japan being a nationalist"

I see. Who tried to buy the islands, then who had to nationalize them in an attempt to make a wrong right?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Before the purchase, several fishermen-pretends tried to land the islands. Do you remember? What do you mean by "make a wrong right"? The islands were previously owned by a Japanese civilian. Why does the buy constitute a nationalist?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Why the need to buy the islands? Why not keep the status quo, as other administrations had done? Why escalate the situation?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Many countries in the world have their own air defence zone. Japan set the air defence zone 40 years ago. Why can't China set her own? What has happened here? We have to be fair.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Chinese ships tried to land the islands many times, and the previous owner had been approached by China for a large money. It was already in danger . It was China that trying to chage the status quo. It was not really Ishihara's fault.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@tina, You asked if I remember the island incidents. Yes, there were man and we all read about them in news. The grand incident was when the captain fisherman was detained, then released. There were several before, and as I stated in earlier post, were dismissed as troublemakers, both Japanese, Tawainese, and Chinese from HK tried to post a flag on the island. A certian Japanese nationalist, who hates China, seized upon the opportunity to provoke other nationalist and nationalism in China. This clever nationalist knew all along how things would unfold.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Police station never gives a notice of arrest that they are coming to arrest you. Hope you know what I mean.

No. The CIA won't arrest me for telling you the consequences of invading China exactly like what Japan used to do in the 1800s and as what JoeBigs suggested in his post.

And attacking China's nuclear power plants with regular missiles like what Farmboy suggested won't help too since it won't destroy China and China will certainly retaliate with nukes.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Why the need to buy the islands? Why not keep the status quo, as other administrations had done? Why escalate the situation?

Because the lease with the central government was to expire and he wanted no part of it for he was personally threatened by a Chinese. The better question is, why get all bent out of shape when Japan has nationalized other nearby islands previously even leasing it to U.S. for target practice?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I agree that a rising China is a threat, and that threat must somehow be contained. I dont agree that the nationalist solution will work. Post 2012 has only seen continued escalation, not solutions. Perhaps you can provide evidence, but I never saw any news flask of PRC coast guard or Japan coast guard on patrol of the islands prior to 2012.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Guru29Nov. 24, 2013 - 07:20AM JST

If you actually believe that the PRC is prepared to face the full force to the US nuclear power then your masters have not taught you well.

The PRC has more to lose than you can even fathom, and yes my dear lad I know the numbers.

I was in the service of the US military for over 12 years and had the pleasure of serving in the Nuclear force for 8 of those years the rest, well, I will just smile to the rest of my service.

You need to ask your masters what to ask me and what I will reply before you ask it......LOL

Silly......well, silly at best childish at worst, and that is what your mistake is.

BTW ask Saddam his mistake......LOL

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Just by attacking the numerous nuclear power plants with anti-radiation missiles and regular missiles, China can turn Japan into an uninhabitable land any time it chooses to do so.

Guru29,

Do you have nationalistic music in the background when writing such statements? Try using words like "glorious" a lot, too. It will really help the style of discussion...

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Guru29Nov. 24, 2013 - 07:20AM JST If you actually believe that the PRC is prepared to face the full force to the US nuclear power then your masters have not taught you well.

A full blown nuclear war between China and the US over a few rocks? You must be crazy!

Well, You might change your mind if you know that the main interest of the US in east Asia is to maintain its protectorship over Japan and keeps its military bases for as long as possible and that the Senkaku problem was actually created by the US for this purpose when Henry Kissinger decided to transfer the administration of these rocks without handing over their sovereignty to Japan in around 1970.

This virtually ensured that Japan would never have good relations with China. And that's probably why Henry Kissinger became very angry when Kakuei Tanaka went to China in 1972 to normalize ties and said the following:

"Of all the treacherous sons of bitxhes, the Jps take the cake. It's not just their indecent haste in normalizing relations with China, but they even picked National Day as their preference to go there"

This shows the US has absolutely no interest in the sovereignty of these rocks as long as the problem will make Japan a US protectorate for as long as possible.

Besides encouraging Japan to reclaim the Ryukyus and Senkakus that it had given up in the various peace treaties/agreements thereby creating bad relations between China and Japan, the US also encouraged Japan to reclaim the Kurile islands that it had given up in the San Francisco Peace Treaty and by doing so, ensured that Japan would never sign a peace treaty with Russia.

And when Japan held a 2+2 meeting with Russia recently, Obama quickly asked his Pentagon spokesman to publicly announce that the US has no plans to defend the Senkakus with Japan.

This shows that the Senkakus is just a bait that the US uses to make Japan a permanent protectorate.

And it seems the US even doesn't want Japan to have good relations with North Korea. That's probably why Japan was severely criticized by the US when Shinzo Abe sent an envoy to North Korea months ago.

So it is clear that the US doesn't want Japan to have good relations with its neighbors. Furthermore, it doesn't want Japan to go to war with its neighbors too since it is likely to lose its protectorate regardless of whether Japan wins or loses a major war against China or Russia.

Guru29, Do you have nationalistic music in the background when writing such statements?

Don't just reply facts with rubbish. Prove me wrong if you can.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

globalwatcherNov. 24, 2013 - 12:57PM JST

The only way to kill a huge, red cockroach is by starving it ... that means economic starving!

Economic sanction? Not bad idea, but too many business outside of China will starve first. That's the problem.

I did not make it very clear in my previous post listed above. Let me add what I have said in the past when Japan sent 180 business delegates to China.

globalwatcherNov. 18, 2013 - 09:56AM JST

Why does Japan keep sending a180 delegation to China while the relationship goes to the South? When your girlfriend is walking away from romantic relationship, do you still go after her?

Posted in: Japanese business delegation of 180 to visit China

And many did not like what I have said. I have already seen what is coming in the horizon.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Guru29Nov. 24, 2013 - 10:25PM JST

"And when Japan held a 2+2 meeting with Russia recently, Obama quickly asked his Pentagon spokesman to publicly announce that the US has no plans to defend the Senkakus with Japan."

Please provide a link to substantiate this statement, which incidentally, contradicts the official positions of Two Secretaries of State and Two Secretaries of Defense.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Did Japan do the same thing? and she's surprised?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

A quote by Lemon Fun "Why can't China set her own (Air Defense Zone)?" China already did. China has had an Air Defense Zone for a long time now. This is about a change to the Air Defense Zone that includes the Japan-administered Senkakus, an act of encroachment. There was no reason for China to make any adjustments to the ADZ, other than provocation and posturing in this island debate. The new ADZ also comes very close to islands claimed by both China and South Korea as well, if not overlapping those as well. So to say that Japan is not being fair is very wrong. Japan and China have had their respective ADZ set up for quite some time (I don't know the exact time, but that is hardly relevant). China (as far as I know) never had any objection to the Senkakus being included in Japan's ADZ. But now, rather than discussing the matter maturely, have taken to expanding their ADZ to include the Senkakus, and provoke a response from the US.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Did Japan do the same thing? and she's surprised?<

Whether you are pro/anti japan or China, everything has been said and laid out, war is ugly in the end all suffer.

japan has say they will shoot down any drone , let us see they do it, talk the talk and walk the walk. China has say they will want identification so let wait and see, they talk the talk and walk the walk.

As for US Government, the whole problem is created by them the Great Satan.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

J.basher, you are right. War is ugly and everybody lose.

But since Japan right wing is so eager for it, let them be. In the end, China owns Japan nothing, and Japan has not paid back all their war crimes 70 years ago.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

If you look at China history since PRC take over, they have always meant what they said, even if losing 3/4 of the populations they will still do what they need to do.

They have not back off from anyone who threaten China, before nor are they going to start now, let other say what they want, China has made her point so does Japan.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

ne-tigerNov. 25, 2013 - 03:47AM JST But since Japan right wing is so eager for it, let them be. In the end, China owns Japan nothing, and Japan has not >paid back all their war crimes 70 years ago.

Japan is hardly right-wing. And compared to the Neo-fascist nationalism of China, it's nothing.

J.basherNov. 25, 2013 - 04:04AM JST If you look at China history since PRC take over, they have always meant what they said, even if losing 3/4 of the >populations they will still do what they need to do.

Times change. Since China instituted the one-child policy, Chinese families are unwilling to let their government use their sons as canon fodder as they use to.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Must be a hidden agenda.....as devaluing their currency??

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Times change. Since China instituted the one-child policy, Chinese families are unwilling to let their government use their sons as canon fodder as they use to.<

Starting a war with China is easy, as the warmongers love it. So are US, Japan willing to do the same using their sons and daughter as cannon fodders?. No matter how so call experts on china, you will never understand China period, Japan/US and China government has stated their view, neither you nor me are the policy maker. .

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

ne-tigerNov. 25, 2013 - 03:47AM JST

Japan has not paid back all their war crimes 70 years ago.

It has been and Japan does not live in the past. Have you ever heard a Power of Forgiveness? Let's move on, China.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It has been and Japan does not live in the past. Have you ever heard a Power of Forgiveness? Let's move on, China.

According to you yes, to other no, To forgive but never forget when history are whitewash all the time IMHO.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

globalwatcher, Japan paid with A-bombs to US not China. China did not even accept compensation as a good will. That's why I said China owns NOTHING, NOTHING to Japan.

It's Japan that keeps provoking China because they feel insure that China passed them as #2,except they don't understand, this time, China has A-tombs. Maybe it's time for them to pay once for all.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

ne-tigerNov. 25, 2013 - 07:48AM JST

globalwatcher, Japan paid with A-bombs to US not China. China did not even accept compensation as a good will. That's why I said China owns NOTHING, NOTHING to Japan.

It's Japan that keeps provoking China because they feel insure that China passed them as #2,except they don't understand, this time, China has A-tombs. Maybe it's time for them to pay once for all.

I deeply regret that you and I are in different field to continue this conversation to nowhere.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Guru29Nov. 24, 2013 - 10:25PM JST A full blown nuclear war between China and the US over a few rocks? You must be crazy!

Crazy, nah realistic. If the PRC were to launch a single nuke they would discover that MAD is still alive and well. Also Tactical nukes are small, clean, efficient and the military has been dying to try them out on someone for years. What better nation than the PRC?

The PRC is living in a Saddam fantasy-land. They think that when they attack Japan the US will smile and nod their heads. But reality would soon strike them as hard as it hit Saddam.

First off Japan is no pushover the only reason it hasn't been overtly aggressive is because of it's Constitution. But when the PRC does attack it will hold it's ground and give much more than it will take.

Then the PRC will have to contend with the US Naval might, don't know if you know this but the US Navy is pretty powerful, much more than your PRC's.

Lastly, the US war chiefs have been dying to have a go at the PRC. They would love to end the childish aggressions with a big ole exclamation point.

And when the PRC makes it's move you and the rest of it's water internet army will have to get real jobs.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People talking about a full blown war is really disturbing. I don't think any country want's that. At least in China's case it may only be that the PLA leaders don't feel they are ready to take on the U.S. So either way, we are probably headed toward a limited conflict since China is upping the stakes constantly. But if a real state of war does arise, I sincerely hope that the NSA has a list of the ip addresses of all the routine CCP supporters on this and other forums and every one of them is pulled in for questioning. You guys earned it.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Crazy, nah realistic. If the PRC were to launch a single nuke they would discover that MAD is still alive and well.

As I said, a full blown nuclear war between China and the US is purely wishful thinking of the Japanese. And since both the Chinese and Americans know Japan is planning for a nuclear war between the two countries, they will try their best to avoid it since it will only make the Japanese happy.

To tell you the truth, any poster in this forum who tells you there will be a full blown nuclear war between China and the US is more than 90% of the time a Japanese, not Chinese or American. Believing wishful thinking as facts is just an old habit of the Japanese. This fact was fully demonstrated in WWII and it hasn’t changed even now.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 04:40AM JST As I said, a full blown nuclear war between China and the US is purely wishful thinking of the Japanese. And since both the Chinese and Americans know Japan is planning for a nuclear war between the two countries, they will try their best to avoid it since it will only make the Japanese happy.

You actually believe that Japanese want a full nuclear war, wow now that is completely insane or just the PRC thinking. You must have been wondering what I was talking about. Well then let me help you out.

On Oct 28th the PRC China and not the US that posted on their state run papers outlining where and how they could easily strike the US mainland if war did breakout. Don't believe me, well then look up.

In this entirely PRC belligerent assault on reality and reason it has been China and it's "water internet army" that has been rattling the nuke saber.

Now, who in Japan or the US has been calling for a nuclear strike on China? The only nation that has made nuclear threats has been the PRC.

Ball is in their court and the PRC's leadership are filled with irrational megalomaniacs who think that by making threats they can get their way. They are highly mistaken.

Oct. 27/28th report came out on most state run outlets.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I, as a Chinese, am interested in how Japanese media reports the news and how does people "here" response. Anyway, I am not truly trust medias of both sides . I just want to presented some opposite opinions, understanding towards some facts.

I think the distrust origins from the War between China and Japan. Lets begin with this.

Chinese: We suffered so much from the war, the whole country was really in danger at that time. Never forget the tough and painful time in 20th, the country needs power to realize a rebirth and back to its historic zenith time.

Japan: We apologized, de-militarized, wrote peace into constitution, what else you want me to do. It is somethings 60 years ago, let it go and move on.

From either's perspective, it sounds reasonable. I am not sure my understandings are accurate and comprehensive. But if we really want the east Asian become something like EU. or even just avoid war. We must build some common grounds first(maybe start from the war) and try to understand each other's position a little more.

(personal abuse and radical-racism could only prove the person's uneducated and narrow-minded)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 04:40AM JST As I said, a full blown nuclear war between China and the US is purely wishful thinking of the Japanese

That has got to be the most absurd thing you have posted. Only one country openly talks about wanting a "war".

"China's navy should speed up its development and prepare for warfare, President Hu Jintao has said." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16063607

"As tensions between China and Japan escalate, China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has been told to prepare for war in a training directive issued by the General Staff Headquarters, which oversees the entire PLA."

http://www.voanews.com/content/chinas-peoples-liberation-army-pla-prepare-for-war/1585348.html

LeeLeeCNov. 26, 2013 - 06:46AM JST

From either's perspective, it sounds reasonable. I am not sure my understandings are accurate and comprehensive. >But if we really want the east Asian become something like EU. or even just avoid war. We must build some common >grounds first(maybe start from the war) and try to understand each other's position a little more.

In 1972 China and Japan signed the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship which put to rest all WWII matters, and Japan since then spearheaded the Chines economic rise starting in the 1980s. However, China having attained economic and military power now desires to expand it's territory at the expense of it's smaller Asian neighbors. If you want to see peace in Asia then China must find a less aggressive and more diplomatic way of dealing with it's neighbors. China can not regain it's glory of thousands of years ago as no countries today are prepared to become tributary states.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I always observe that whenever there is a news article about the territorial dispute between Japan and China, many Chinese nationals (probably some of them are paid by CCP) bring the invasion of Japan in China in the 30's and 40's as if this will give China the right to behave like a selfish bully in the region, or probably to distract other readers from the real problem.

What China is doing is very irresponsible to the security and the peace of the reagion. And please don't bring Ishihara to this topic. The whole problem was triggered by China when China officially claimed these islands in the early 70's for the first time in history when the UN reported that the area might contain a huge reserve of gas and oil. China never cared about these islands and never considred them as their own territories. The Chinese indeference to these islands before the discovey of the natural resources proves that. They didn't try to gain the control of them after Japanese loss in WWII which would be a great opportunity. When those islands was under US administration, China never critisized or complained, even when the the Americans were using those islands for military maneuvers.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

OssanAmericaNov. 26, 2013 - 07:20AM JST In 1972 China and Japan signed the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship which put to rest all WWII matters, and Japan since then spearheaded the Chines economic rise starting in the 1980s. ‎ During 1972 talks on the normalization of the bilateral diplomatic relations, Tanaka proposed to Chou that the two countries jointly develop oil resources around the Senkaku Islands, according to Susumu Nikaido, who as chief Cabinet secretary was present at the meeting. In an interview with The Asahi Shimbun in 1997, Nikaido recounted their conversation. According to the late politician, Tanaka said to Chou, “Mr. Prime Minister, let us start joint oil development in the future, around the Senkaku Islands, shall we?” After pondering the proposal for a moment, Chou replied, “Mr. Tanaka, let us talk about it later.” Tanaka said no more about the topic, according to Nikaido’s account.

source: ajw.asahi.com/article/special/senkaku_history/AJ201212260103 ‎

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

sfjp330Nov. 26, 2013 - 07:42AM JST source: ajw.asahi.com/article/special/senkaku_history/AJ201212260103

"Neither the 1972 Japan-China joint communique on the establishment of a formal diplomatic relationship between the two countries nor the 1978 bilateral peace and friendship treaty, however, includes any reference to the Senkaku Islands. Nor has there been any formal agreement between the leaders of the two nations on shelving the territorial issue."

2 ( +5 / -3 )

OssanAmerica,

Right, no agreement was reached on Senkaku issue in 1972 or 1978, but off the record, informal high level conversation touched on subject of joint oil development and future of Senkaku/Diaoyu.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

sfjp- If a topic is not written into an agreement, whether in the main body or as an addendum, it doesn't have any legal weight. Whether this discussion occurred or did not occur is not relevant to the text of the Treaty. So I do not understand your point in bring this up.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Germany mended with rest of europe after WWII with German Chancellor kneed down at least on two occasions before the Jews memorial site to repent their acts during war. Germany has since become a great nation, standing up from a dark past. However, the world has yet to see Japan repent its acts of bloody past. China likes Japan products, well designed, good quality and well priced, it shows in 20% GPD of Japan with China. Chinese people forgives the acts of Japan but could not understand why many Japan leaders continue to pay tribute worship the shrine dedicated to war criminals -- what message is Japan sending the world? …. It is utterly unthinkable … to see German Chancellor today continue to pay tribute and worship Nazi criminals and Hitler's strine in Germany -- then one must asks, why is Japan doing it still, on mass scale, not just Abe but the whole cabinet of senators attending the shrine. ITS UNTHINKABLE - what message Japan send out to the world. What the world should read Japan? Germany stands up from the past and choose to be a great nation. Japan after 68yrs chooses continue to cling to wrongful past ideas - Japan will never be great this way. The world is seeing it. Wake up Japanese people. Chinese people like you, but we do not like your country continue the past tradition, taken up our land that US assign to you in 1970's of which should have been returned since 1945 war end.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@Peaceasia

Japanese visit to the shrine to pay respect to the souls of fallen soldiers. I go there myself. Majority of the souls there are children or early 20s. My relatives were college students. If you go there, you'll see they are mostly children. I cry reading their letters.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

China why don't you respect the Korean water space and the Japanese water space first and stop fishing there illegally, and also no seas belong to one country China.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

To Peaceasia,

First of all, WWII has nothing to do with this issue which was created and escalated by China. Just because Japan invaded China 70 years ago does not give the comunist China the right to behave like a typical selfish bully in the school court yard intimidating its smaller neigbors.

Secondly, it is China that has to learn from the mitakes of WWII-Germany, not Japan. China is acting like Nazi-Germany by trying to steal lands from its neighbors just like Germany did before and during WWII.

And lastly, what do you mean by that Japan should return those islands to China? When you use the term "return", make sure that China had a direct administration over those islands in the light of international law. The fact that China claimed those islands for the first time in history in early 70's after the UN reoprt indicating the area to have a huge reserve of oil and gas proves that China did not consider those islands to be her territory. In fact even some state Chinese-media in the 50's published map of east asia showing that those islands were part of Japan.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

JPN, SK, & USA setup ADIZ way back in 1960's with no consultations with other countries. One can draw the zone lines anyway each country likes. It is a defensive measure anyway. Media is making a big deal over nothing. Come on some of you readers. Take a nap.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Fellow JT Readers,

Lets do something to hurt the PRC communist in their wallets, by Boycotting everything made in China

Say NO to Made in China products!!

so you children and grandchildren don't have to deal with those COMMUNIST BULLIES !!!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Bad2Dbone looks like that may hurt Japan more in a trade war. who will buy the lexus, honda and toyota? 1.4 billion consumers is bigger than Europe + N & S America + Russia combined. That is 11 JPNs or 4.5 USA.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@decibel yes, you have have a good point ,for big companies will loose this benefit, but people will still buy them, its quality! compare to Chinese products cannot compare apples to lemons. I am talking Globally! not only Japan but the whole World!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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