China summons Japanese ambassador over Yasukuni visit

Tamarama at least you got rid of your attackers. Our attackers are still in Okinawa to "protect" us.

pochanOct. 19, 2013 - 09:52AM JST

China's military and territorial expansion agenda today, not 70 years ago, is.

China hasn't started any major wars yet. The US on the other hand has started many. Don't throw stones in your glasshouse

What does the US have to do with this article .....Unless it says to say that in your LITTLE RED BOOK, wait until their is another article about the US to chirp in! You silly human!

You can't say that you are clean because you stopped killing. If that were the case, nobody needed to go to prison for murder. You must also repent, not necessarily as a nation or as a race or as a people, but as human beings, feeling truely sorry for the people who died, whether you were the perpetrator or not. If you pretend yourselves to be French and mourn the Chinese dead in WW2, that's probably good enough.

The problem is that the people or government of Japan is not seen as having even done this. Their continued worship at the shrine seems to indicate the opposite. Even the fact that Japan's flag is till from WW2 time is humiliating to the Chinese and Koeans.

A German chancellor after WW2 went to Poland to kneel in front the Polish memorial for the victims of the Warsaw uprising, while the cameras of the world media blazed on him. That was a site to see. Polish people consider Germans their best friends nowadays. But Chinese and Japanese hate each other, after so many years. What a disaster!

Kiss my butt China!

@Joe

Everything you say is true, but two wrongs have never made a right.

nvna5ux02Oct. 20, 2013 - 01:38PM JST

Since the end of WW2 Japan has not killed one, no not one person due to war or war crimes.

But, the PRC and Korea have both committed war crimes and humanitarian crimes in the millions and have yet to even hear a whimper from their supporters.

All their supporters do is cry foul when a single politician visits a shrine to pay their respect to the people who paid dearly for wars long past.

But, tell me, where is your outrage and your huff when it comes for the crimes committed by Korea in Vietnam or even the Korean war?

How about the crimes against humanity committed by Mao and his gang, last I checked his body count ranged from 40 million to 75 million and that was in just 4 years.........

I will not even ask about the aggressive crimes committed by his nation in the last 40 years against it's neighbors...

Where is your outrage?

Or does that outrage you hold take a back seat when it comes to present day acts committed by countries you favor?

I understand a lot of the names in the shrine are from Japanese history long past, including even tribal warriors who fought for their own tribes. Combining those with world war II leaders was a mistake. At the time US had total occupation of Japan in every respect. It could have made it right. Those leaders lead Japan to disaster, caused a lot of human tragedy without accomplishing any useful purpose (such as integrating Korea or northern China.) There's nothing to be proud of them. The Germans are not proud of the Nazis. There's no reason Japan should be proud of them either. Take them out of the shrine would be a great symbolic move. It would take away any excuses from China and Korea to link modern day Japan's policies with the past crimes, committed by people already past. They will still have difficulties, but the discussion would not keep dragging the past.

The problem of dragging the past is that it causes nationalist feelings to get out of hand. That's very dangerous. They may come a day people hate each other enough that their politicians would be compelled to engage in a military conflict. Even without an actual conflict, just the arms race is already very bad.

nvna5ux02Oct. 20, 2013 - 01:21PM JST The problem is that some of those enshrined were war criminals in world war II.

Tell that to the victims of Mao and the folks that worship at his physical tomb....

Difference, the folks enshrined at Yasukuni have no bones there while Mao the mass murderer is still being touched up now and then...

45,000,000 Million to 75,000,000 people died because of that madman and he is still revered by 100s of millions, while one politician visits a shrine to pay his or her respects to those that paid the ultimate price for their nation and all hell breaks out.

What's wrong there?

Oh yeah that's id right, it's called hypocrisy.....

The problem is that some of those enshrined were war criminals in world war II. The Chinese and Koreans view this to be the equivalent of a shrine for German Nazis like Hitler, Goering, Geobles and Himmler. Obviously a shrine for such people would be intolerable in Europe. So it's unfortunate that the world war two criminals should be enshrined here. Their memory serves to humiliate those people, and doesn't do Japanese national pride any good. This is a cancer in the relationship between with China and Korea. I do think it's an american conspiracy.

smithinjapanOct. 19, 2013 - 08:54AM JST Ossan: "Japanese politicians visiting the shrine isn't considered a threat to regional peace by most Asia nations. But >China's military and territorial expansion agenda today, not 70 years ago, is. That is reality." And yet my guess is you are not against Abe revising the constitution? Takes two to tango, my friend.

Considering that the United States has been pressuring Japan to revise their constitution since 1950 (that's 63 years ago smith) there is no reason for you to be "guessing".

There are far more Vietnamese that lived through the Vietnam war that are still alive but I don't hear them complain when a certain president of a nation that committed horrendous war crimes that DID NOT make any apology not to mention any compensation.

Well said, SamuraiBlue. I made the point the other day that you don't hear about Vietnam protesting whenever US politicians visit the Arlington War Memorial... there were some US soldiers who committed terrible war crimes in the Vietnam War, and yet... do I hear howls of protest from Ho Chi Minh City? Hanoi? Nope. So why the protests from China and ROK whenever a Japanese person above the level of office cleaner visits the shrine? It's getting silly.

Taiwan's Foreign affair Dep. also presented feeling regret for this issue.

After 1945;

@SamuraiBlue--This is like giving a lecture on the solar system, but intentionally skipping right over the sun! I mean its only a thousand times bigger than all the planets combined!

Which do you think is more militarily aggressive?

Do I get to include the foreign military that Japan hosts in that question?? I mean dang, China is on her own, surrounded by like 20 nations. Japan is off by itself in the Pacific ocean and has a bodyguard.

And why are you changing the question anyway? Oh yeah! Cause you don't like the truth of the original question!

As an X USAF Veteran who lost an Uncle on Okinawa they are honoring service men called to duty by there country and that's it

@itazuke1--What part of "executed for war crimes and honored at Yasukuni" is not getting through? Frankly I think your uncle deserves better.

There are plenty of people alive and well who suffered at the hands of Imperial Japan who understand far far more about this than you or those who read the white-washed history books

Don't make me laugh. The two champions re-writing history for their own political gain is saying?

There are far more Vietnamese that lived through the Vietnam war that are still alive but I don't hear them complain when a certain president of a nation that committed horrendous war crimes that DID NOT make any apology not to mention any compensation.

Let's call a spade a spade.

The Lear Jet ' communist party is sh:t scared of a billion less than happy campers questioning their lot.

They'll engineer any threat to distract the populace, from sparrows to Senkakus, spoon-feeding them along the way the syrupy myth of Han unity and middle kingdom supremacy.

Well I guess basically China is exercising their right to say whatever they want to Japans ambassador. If this is what they choose to say then Japan should exercise their right to respond or not. I guess the "complainers" will never change their mind and so it makes perfect sense that Japan never change their mind about visiting Yasukuni either. Or, maybe in a different world, the complainers learn that there must be a different approach and solution hidden somewhere in the opinions and arguments. By the way Control freak, you seem to have a special relation to these vans outside Shibuya station. Dont know of them but I can guess they are small numbers of people that wants to start up some kind of extremism. Typically similar elements show up when japan has been provoked over the islands or something else. You should know that these elements is a necessity in every democracy. They serve the function to constantly remind people of what they dont want and like. If you cant see them then it is time to think about it carefully.

Cohen

The truth of matter is that none of Asians with exception of China and ROK really cares about this fight between these 2 nations. It doesnt mean they are not aware about the history about these nations, on the contrary, they know a lot and even more than you. They just decided to be mature and go forward to build their success and happiness.

SamuraiBlue: "Meaningless to people living today but I guess people who dwell in the past wouldn't understand."

There are plenty of people alive and well who suffered at the hands of Imperial Japan who understand far far more about this than you or those who read the white-washed history books EVER could. This is just another case of 'well, let's forget it in this case because it's Japan, but play it up in this case because it's China'. Irregardless of what you think is right or wrong, if ministers in Japan visit the shrine in an official capacity, or even a personal one, it is going to upset others and that means they are not doing their jobs well. Personally I support them doing what they do in a personal function -- not going on the company dime, getting a ride in a government car, signing in under their title instead of just their name, etc., but I don't support them doing it in an official capacity, nor do I support the donations so long as Class A war criminals are enshrined there and the shrine will not even consider building a separate building to worship or removing the names of said war criminals.

Somebody...please!....just once tell china to go F themselves.

Only China and Korea talk about this issue. Other nations have nothing against someone visiting Yasukuni. Thousands of people are visiting this shrine including foreigners who are also paying respect to those so called "criminals".

@Mitsuo - the average foreign tourist with cameras on their necks aren't aware of the depth of the issue. They're there to see the sights and snap some photos. For those that do, opinions are divided and that is why it's controversial.

I just looked up the reviews of Yasukuni on Tripadvisor. There are a range of opinions, which reflect all sides of this argument. Here are some quotes from the first page:

As the son of a US WWII vet I couldn't bring myself to pay the admission to the full museum but the first floor and gift shop is free with some interesting exhibits. Really a must see if you are a WWII buff or have a personal connection to the time period or wish to have a feel for the controversy whenever Japanese government officials visit the shrine.

.

It was a breath of fresh air to see the war as it was fought from the other side and it is a shame that a few cases have detracted from what is a brilliant and moving tribute to the bravery and heroism of those who fought on behalf of their country throughout history.

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Anyone familiar with Japan's temporary flight from sanity and humanity in the 30's and 40's would do well to skip the Museum as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, but Zeros and the Rising Sun flag have as much place in modern Japan as Luftwaffe aircraft and the Nazi flag do in modern Germany.

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This museum basically exists to propagate the right wing version of Japanese history, from modernisation through WW2. While this point of view is usually met with snorts of derision in the West, there was a context here – European imperialism, racism, unfair trade treaties, etc. It's a pretty safe bet that most of Asia would still be ruled by Europeans had Japan not kicked them out. That is not to say that Japanese abuses during the war (towards others and also its own people) should be justified, but that the situation was much more complex than the usual 'white hats and black hats' version that most Western people seem to be spoon-fed.

Strangely enough, Kuomintang which fought with the Japanese army and nominated some of the class A convicts for the military tribunal and sent a judge to the court doesn't care a bit about the shrine visit. So it's rather PRC's internal affairs. The upper crust of CCP who have amassed disproportionately huge wealth and invested it through Sachs and the like have to be always righteous enough to discipline sordid Japan.

Oh dear I think that many people on this board are just not aware of the scale of Japan's war atrocities in China

WaaaaaaaaaaH: !

I hope the Japanese ambassador takes his time going to see Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin.

Chinese minister - Japan, we summoned you to lodge a protest.

Japanese ambassador - You were serious about that?

Go Abe! Go Japan! China can screw themselves! We all will soon learn that China is the country in Asia that is most disliked.

Why is this such a popular topic for people here when it is always the same news just different names?

Cohen,

Only China and Korea talk about this issue. Other nations have nothing against someone visiting Yasukuni. Thousands of people are visiting this shrine including foreigners who are also paying respect to those so called "criminals".

Groundhog day scenario.. You could copy and paste the news cycles, as well as the comments. Many of you seem convinced that China is in the wrong here.. so can Japan perhaps just be the bigger man and choose to visit the Chidorigafuchi instead?

160 Japanese lawmakers visiting Yasukuni is a political move, regardless of how many of them claim it was a private visit for a private purpose, and the camera crew just happened to be passing by. If Yasukuni was not controversial and unopposed by China, a part of me thinks that these lawmakers would not visit it half as much.

My country was bombed and attacked by Japan in WW2 - a whole generation of my Grandfather's age had to go off and fight against the Japanese, including both of mine. Lots of those men were imprisoned, tortured and executed or starved to death, and a whole generation and their kids had a very poor opinion of Japan as a result.

I respect your opinion and whilst this is all true it isn't fair to compare how the Chinese suffered at the hands of the Japanese with what happened to Australia. I agree with you that it is time China moved on like most of the rest of the world has and they still use WW2 for political ends and population control but at the same time they suffered horrendous treatment in WW2. What happened to allied forces (as bad as that was) doesn't compare. I'm sorry you are wrong to compare these two things.

"smithinjapan

Better question?

Why stop at a hundred why not go for a thousand?

Meaningless to people living today but I guess people who dwell in the past wouldn't understand."

SamuraiBlue: "After 1945..."

I like how you qualify your argument. I suppose we should 'forget the past' before 1945, but it's okay to remember China's military conflicts after?

Here's a better question -- how many did the Imperial Army kill across Asia in the last 100 years vs. how many the Chinese military has killed across Asia?

I wonder how many of Japan Today's reader's that react so strongly against any protest by China regarding issues like visits to the Yasukuni Shrine would react to the vigorous protests by Jewish and WW2 Veterans groups to the visit by President Reagan and German Chancellor Kohl to the Bitberg Cemetery, where 49 members of the Waffen SS were buried (along with several thousand regular Wehrmacht soldiers) in 1985? The outrage that would be generated if members of today's German government visited a cemetery where over a 1000 convicted Nazi War Criminals were buried, would be deafening, and I doubt many people like CrazyJoe would be telling them "not to meddle with Germany's internal affairs." They simply wouldn't dare, and furthermore, it just wouldn't happen. It's called facing up to one's wrongs and respecting one's neighbors and the world community in general. And I'm not saying the Japanese shouldn't have a right to honor their war dead, most of whom were also victims of Japan's imperialism, but Japanese politicians need to do so unofficially, and respectfully.

I think China is trying to start a fight. Japan regardless political rank should be able to honor their dead. I believe the Chinese honor theirs, why cant the Japanese? Theyre not plotting a war or anything against China, they just want to remember the ones who perished and to pray for peace. Which I believe China is finding difficult to understand :(

Do you guys know any other country that complain about Yasukuni with exception of China and Korea? I really dont know and those who I know dont really care about this stuff, except friendship and peace.

While Japan lost plenty of victims in the war, it is hard to say Japan itself was the victim. Until they truly honor the victims of Japan's wartime aggression, they have no business 'paying respects' to their own war dead.

hi will lose his job as china ambassador.

And Japan never told China wha to do in the past, did they? They never tell China there is no island dispute in the present, do they? and they certainly don't have politicians telling other nations what they should do on fiscal policy or anything, do they?

Are you seriously trying to compare visiting a shrine to a group of Japanese islands which China are trying to take? Try a bit better SmithinChina.

As an X USAF Veteran who lost an Uncle on Okinawa they are honoring service men called to duty by there country and that's it

@ControlFreak

After 1945;

Japan 0 military conflicts

PRC 5 military conflicts

Which do you think is more militarily aggressive?

PRC had engaged military conflict with the Soviet Union, India, Tibet, and Vietnam. They were also part of the Korean war.

@Samuraiblue--Pochan quite clearly stated that China has not started and MAJOR wars. And you bring up mostly border conflicts to counter?

China is no angel, and the biggest proof of that is Tibet, but even that was not a major war. Like it or not, the history of the PRC and their fights mostly over competing land claims do not come close to Japan's civilian murdering rampage across Asia, which this Japanese ambassador is obviously not at all down on. China's footing to take this stance against the ambassador may not be solid concrete, but its plenty solid enough. Its the ambassador standing in quicksand.

Anything else is to go stand and scream with the uyoku in front of a Shinjuku station.

KariHaruka: "Someone please tell China that they can't dictate what Japanese citizens can and can't do in their own country"

And Japan never told China wha to do in the past, did they? They never tell China there is no island dispute in the present, do they? and they certainly don't have politicians telling other nations what they should do on fiscal policy or anything, do they?

Pot, meet kettle.

The only reason Yasukuni "opens old wounds" is because China like to pick the scab until it bleeds again.

By paying respects at Yasukuni, which enshrines and honors 1068 war criminals into one single kami with common soldiers, the Japanese ambassador has made a clear statement that he considers all of Imperial Japan's victims to be sub-humans against which Japanese can do no wrong, the same statement issued by the deeds of Yasukuni itself, which can and does choose who to enshrine or not, just as the ambassador can and does chose where and how he decides to honor those who "died serving the emperor".

To such an ambassador, the unofficlal and thin statements of "remorse" from a handful of Japanese politicians about the war and rampage across Asia are not worth the oxygen it took to mutter them.

Of course the Chinese Foreign Minister is protesting! What is amazing is that so many of you find yourself in agreement with uyoku black van crazies with their loudspeakers parked outside of Shibuya station!

Someone please tell China that they can't dictate what Japanese citizens can and can't do in their own country. China might be able to control its own people but it can't control the people of other countries!

China's military and territorial expansion agenda today, not 70 years ago, is.

China hasn't started any major wars yet. The US on the other hand has started many. Don't throw stones in your glasshouse

sfjp330

For some, Yasukuni issue might be more of a exaggerated politics from China, but the reality is, it continues to open the wounds from WWII.

But you have to ask yourself 'why?'. Japan has apologised in many ways repeatedly for WW2 - you know that, it's all well documented and easy to access. It has also paid a STAGGERING amount of money to China from about 1950 onwards, initially as reparation for the war but later it just turned into 'foreign aid'. They still do. China takes this, and other forms of aid with business and technology quite happily with one hand, whilst continuing to shake it's finger at Japan and gnash it's teeth over the war. It's a nonsense.

China won't let it go. It's worth too much, both financially and politically (domestic).

C3P02

So I am not sure what Tamarama is talking about

Then maybe read the post again. It's pretty clear and certainly factually accurate.

I always find it amusing that China, (and korea too, for that matter) think they can tell Japanese people not to go to a Japanese shrine, in Japan.

Same old, same old. If the man was truly visiting in an individual capacity the Chinese really cannot say much.

Ossan: "Japanese politicians visiting the shrine isn't considered a threat to regional peace by most Asia nations. But China's military and territorial expansion agenda today, not 70 years ago, is. That is reality."

And yet my guess is you are not against Abe revising the constitution? Takes two to tango, my friend.

In my country there was no ill feeling towards the Japanese at all when I was growing up. So I am not sure what Tamarama is talking about.

The mummified corpse of one of the greatest mass-murderers in human history is available for public viewing in the center of Beijing. Tuesday to Sunday, 8:00 am to noon.

Perhaps Japan should summon the ambassador every time a chinese politician stops by to pay their respects.

@tamarama

For some, Yasukuni issue might be more of a exaggerated politics from China, but the reality is, it continues to open the wounds from WWII. Both countries needs to find a way to heal. For Japan, China is a major trade partner that accounts for 21 percent of Japan's total GDP and you cannot ignore that. Continue bad relations will eventually affects all sprectrum of the bilateral trade and some will look for alternative suppliers. There has to be better diplomatic solutions to the problem and. both countries need to show some flexibility to improve relations.

Regarding Yasukuni visit, Hidehisa Otsuji, a former Minister for Health, Labour and Welfare said "I have difficulties understanding the opposition from other nations." and he represents Japan's goverment?

He probably has difficulty understanding why he can't put his right foot in his left shoe as well. Not much in the way of intellect is required of Japanese politicians.

This cycle never seems to end, does it?

My country was bombed and attacked by Japan in WW2 - a whole generation of my Grandfather's age had to go off and fight against the Japanese, including both of mine. Lots of those men were imprisoned, tortured and executed or starved to death, and a whole generation and their kids had a very poor opinion of Japan as a result.

Many countries like Indonesia, Malaya, Burma and The Philippines also suffered at the hands of the Japanese at this time.

But I don't care if the Japanese politicians go to Yasukuni to honour the war dead, and you don't hear incessant bleating from these countries by way of protest either. Because the world has matured, forgiven and moved on.

Well, most of the world.

Regarding Yasukuni visit, Hidehisa Otsuji, a former Minister for Health, Labour and Welfare said "I have difficulties understanding the opposition from other nations." and he represents Japan's goverment?

Tear down the Great Firewall of China. Then you can preach.

how is it an attempt to white wash, nobody ever said that it didn't happen

What the Chinese government cries and what the Chinese people think must be distinguished. Businesses of both countries are seeking each other. The Chinese business partners may be saying to the Japanese partners "Ignore what they cry."

Tell China not to meddle with Japan's internal affairs.

Thank you for your useless opinion. Read the lips, sir. It is not your business. China needs to concentrate on its prisons and human rights violations.

Japanese politicians visiting the shrine isn't considered a threat to regional peace by most Asia nations. But China's military and territorial expansion agenda today, not 70 years ago, is. That is reality.