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China takes propaganda war with Japan to United Nations

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Chinese diplomacy.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Truly bizarre. The CCP tolerate no criticism of their own repressive internal policies, deny and whitewash their own bloody record towards their own citizens over the past 60+ years (and lionize those responsible), unilaterally lays claims to its neighbour's resources and territories and then pulls out of (or avoids) UN processes to settle territorial disputes, and annexes independent states (Tibet) - and then complain to the UN about the Japanese, visiting a Japanese shrine, in Japan, that causes no actual physical harm to anyone?

Hypocritical cry-babies.

23 ( +27 / -5 )

The relationship has gotten so bad that they are already calling each other names. One is a threatening military bully, and the other an imperialist ghost.

Either side has nothing more to lose diplomatically. The next escalation will be a collision of coast guard ships, and following that, near collisions of fighter jets, and after that, overfly of bombers.

When should the US cut in? Better be quick! China will be ready with its demands. The stake is now high enough to bargain for something much more substantial.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

@rsgz3: Excellemt analysis you wrote!

2

0 ( +3 / -3 )

“It all boils down to whether the leader of a country should stand on the side of maintaining the principles and purposes of the charter of the United Nations or to side with war criminals,” China’s U.N. envoy Liu Jieyi told reporters."

Kind of rich coming from China who sent 250,000 troops to the Korean Peninsula to kill UN troops.

18 ( +23 / -6 )

Oh sure I slaughtered your people for fun, but you don't respect them either, so why are you criticizing me for slaughtering them? That's the typical Japanese arguments we read all over the internet. You people really have a problem.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

rsgz4gg7y2Jan. 09, 2014 - 07:33AM JST Either side has nothing more to lose diplomatically. China will be ready with its demands.

Yes China will keep demanding to every country that they come face to face with. The international attractiveness of a China’s foreign policy, political values and culture, is recognized by China as a key political commodity, but do you ever wonder why your country China has had limited success in cultivating? What China needs to do is intensify efforts to be seen as a responsible, peaceful power and match this rhetoric with actions.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

In Japan you often hear 中国4千年の歴史 (4 thousand years of Chinese histor). They may have the history but, seems to me that many things may not have changed/evolved since then...

2 ( +6 / -4 )

rsgz4gg7y2Jan. 09, 2014 - 07:52AM JST Oh sure I slaughtered your people for fun, but you don't respect them either, so why are you criticizing me for >slaughtering them? That's the typical Japanese arguments we read all over the internet. You people really have a >problem.

No it's not. The typical Japanese argument is we apologized and signed a peace treaty with you in 1972. You even reaffirmed it in 1978. We had friendly relations for 38 years. Why this sudden denial and Japan-hating now that we and the world helped you get on your economic feet?

17 ( +22 / -6 )

“The international community should remain vigilant and issue a warning ... that Abe must correct his erroneous outlook of history, he must correct his mistakes and he must not slip further down the wrong path,” he said.

Let me correct this.

The international community is sick and tired of your pulpit preaching and would like you and Japan to get back in your shared sandbox and behave. What errors Japan may or may not have done is another matter for discussion, but you, China, have not helped in any way to keep the peace. Yes, we should remain vigilant, but issue YOU a warning as well.

2 ( +5 / -4 )

Chinese government = bullies

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Tohka Jan. 09, 2014 - 08:33AM JST but you, China, have not helped in any way to keep the peace. Yes, we should remain vigilant, but issue YOU a warning as well.

Japan has not helped either by Abe going to Yasukuni. Abe's statement reiterate his resolve to defend the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands is hardly positive. Japan's long term interest requires that it find a way to resolve island dispute with China. If you recall, in 2008, China and Japan sat down for talks and agreed to jointly develop a natural near Senkaku/Daioyu Islands. The leaders of both countries need to have courage and wisdom to construct framework for putting the resources in an around the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands under some sort of joint administration, in which the sovereign claims of both Japan and Chian are neither recognized nor disputed. Both countries need to have mechanism to prevent repeat wars of unspeakable disaster, because the dispute can esclate quickly, and there is no turning back.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Doesn't the Chinese realize that Abe is doing the exact same thing as their doing? Keeping nationalism stoked by harboring blame & hate on them? The difference although controversial; Abe's move is more transparent.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The so-called "international community" that China refers to includes only China and the Korean Peninsula, the rest of the international community are friends of Japan. The presence of the Chinese Communist Party that continues to challenge the world order is a negative factor in terms of security, the world economy, the global environment and mankind.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

wow....this is nonsense,

I guess then every nation with beef with America should go to the U.N and complain every time they pay respect to the dead at the tomb of the unknown at Arlington or wherever.

this is outrage that they go to the u.n for this, shows how dishonorable china really is.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I guess then every nation with beef with America should go to the U.N and complain every time they pay respect to the dead at the tomb of the unknown at Arlington or wherever.

No one has an issue with praying for the war dead, they have a problem with praying for the war criminals. Arlington has no war criminals buried there, so your comparison is incorrect.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

So let me get this straight:

Abe's visit to a domestic shrine = international blowup by China. Any criticism by any country of any action by the Chinese government in China = "Don't interfere in our domestic matters!"

Got it.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I have a feeling ChineseSKorean don't have a custom of praying for souls as much as Japanese in every day basis.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

No one has an issue with praying for the war dead, they have a problem with praying for the war criminals. Arlington has no war criminals buried there, so your comparison is incorrect.

Hallmark, Farrow, and Spatz.

2 ( +10 / -9 )

On August 28, 1942, Hallmark, Farrow, and Spatz were given a "trial" by Japanese officers, although they were never told the charges against them. On October 14, 1942, Hallmark, Farrow, and Spatz were advised they were to be executed the next day. At 4:30 p.m. on October 15, 1942 the three Americans were brought by truck to Public Cemetery No. 1 outside Shanghai. In accordance with proper ceremonial procedures of the Japanese military, they were then shot.

Link: http://www.doolittleraider.com/

They aren't classified as war criminals. Just soldiers who were executed in war time.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

They aren't classified as war criminals. Just soldiers who were executed in war time.

They were tried in court for targeting civilians. They are, by definition, war criminals but are heroes in U.S.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Its so funny to see the commies banging on about how other nations should "maintain the principles and purposes of the charter of the United Nations" when few countries on earth fall further short of that aim than the communist PRC.

This is just more propaganda. These communist clowns shouldn't even be in the UN, never mind having a seat on the security council.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

It seems very strange that People's Republic of China(PRC) is talking about the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (Tokyo Trial) because PRC was not a member of the Allies. Republic of China, who is now governing Taiwan, was the member.

PRC is expanding its territory continuously and currently having the largest in history and conquering lands of Titetial, Uighurian, Mongolian, Korean, Manchurian and so on. Now PRC is going to expand herself beyond the seas and oceans.

Countries around PRC the Dragon, inclusive of Korea and Japan, are very scared of her because they can see blowing fire in her throat.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

They were tried in court for targeting civilians. They are, by definition, war criminals but are heroes in U.S.

You apparently don't know the definition of a war crime:

'A war crime is a serious violation of the laws applicable in armed conflict (also known as international humanitarian law) giving rise to individual criminal responsibility. Examples of war crimes include "murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps," "the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war," "the killing of hostages," "the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military necessity."'

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_criminal

These men were not charged under the international humanitarian law, nor were they given a proper trial under the basis of this law. So no, they were not war criminals. They were simply men who were declared as criminals during war time. That does not make the war criminals of any class.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

You apparently don't know the definition of a war crime:

Thank you. Wanton destruction of cities not justified by military necessity. Hallmark admitted to further purposely targeting civilian areas in Tokyo. Spatz and Farrow admitted to attacking schools in Nagoya. You fail to understand that these raids weren't your 'bombs in High altitude". They were low flying raid using machine guns.

Please humor me and explain to me the definition of a "proper trial"?

4 ( +11 / -6 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, SecularBeast pretty much said everything I wanted to. China are throwing the bottle out the pram now, and they've run crying to the UN because they can't handle the situation themselves. How utterly pathetic.

@Strangerland: There are 14 Class A war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni, which also houses the Souls (if you believe in such a thing) of 2,499,986 war dead NOT convicted of war crimes. What makes you think that Abe, or indeed any Japanese politician or policymaker, is visiting the shrine for one of those 14? The odds are substantially greater that Abe was paying respects to the soldiers who actually did nothing wrong, who fought and died under orders as most soldiers do. I'll refrain from bringing up the possible point that these soldiers were opposed to the orders but unable to voice that opposition for fear of the deaths of their family or whatever. That's not the point. The point is, it's quite a stretch to say that Abe visited the shrine because of the War criminals.

I wonder where China will take this next? They've gone with Harry Potter references, they've run crying to the UN, so I guess the next logical step is the Jerry Springer show...I'd watch that.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Disappointed they didn't use the Voldemort reference to maintain the tone of the argument. i could help them with some other analogies. How about Japan is like the "Troublesome Trucks" in Thomas the Tank Engine? Or Japan is like DeeDee in Dexter's Lab?

Chine really does need to remove the log from its own eye before pointing out the toothpick in others. but the needs to have an external enemy while it fleecesits own populace and represses them will make this an ongoing saga.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I wonder where China will take this next? They've gone with Harry Potter references, they've run crying to the UN, so I guess the next logical step is the Jerry Springer show...I'd watch that.

This is gold right here folks. Well done Fox. Unfortunately, unlike the UN, Jerry Springer has standards. I can't see him being interested in this sob story.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Japans Prime Minister's visit is to respect the ones who had given their lives in war. It is respect of ones ancestors. It meant no disrespect to others. One must respect that. oh ... wait ... china has no ancestors ... they don't exist.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

If the Chinese are so keen on "maintaining the principles and purposes of the charter of the United Nations," they should start with Article 19 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948.

Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Good luck with that, China

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

China has chips on shoulders.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The same error perpetuated:

Japanese leaders convicted as war criminals are enshrined along with other war dead

The Japanese leaders convicted as war criminals are enshrined along with war dead. Those convicted as war criminals are by definition not war dead. They died after the war. Confusing the two is the only reason this problem exists and the sooner people realise this the better.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

sfjp, you make a great point. However, always blaming someone else is never the right way to move forward, and China absolutely adores blaming Japan for absolutely everything.

The recent Harry Potter reference debacle seems to be just China actually demanding other countries side with them, and this was after China snubbed the UK and made some derogatory references (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was something about the UK being a "past world power" or a has-been) and snubbing their PM, then afterwards demanding they side with them AGAINST Japan with nothing but a pulpit-like patronizing "history" lesson.

Are they going to tell the world that Japan forced them to take this course of action?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Open you eyes and look at the big picture, sheeple. This blathering by both countries is just the means to distract people from the real issues at hand. Instead of asking why either side dares to say what they do, we should be wondering why these leaders still have jobs.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@theeastisred:

The Japanese leaders convicted as war criminals are enshrined along with war dead. Those convicted as war criminals are by definition not war dead. They died after the war.

Thank you for bringing this up. I've been wondering for some time now why they are enshrined there in the first place since they are obviously no war dead.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But not the Islands???

Talk about pathetic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Good! The world is not blind :)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Globalwatcher China has chips on shoulders. Thats funny I don't think so if they did had chips on their shoulders they would be on the poker table in Las Vegas or Macau! . Just some humor here!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

From the point of view of China's internal political situation, I believe this is an attempt by Xi and his (relative) moderates to appear to be gallantly in control; and so take the wind out of the sails of the extremists who might prefer a more confrontational approach to foreign relations in general. Perhaps it is related to the centralizing of the command of the Chinese armed forces as well. How well or how long this approach will work is another question. This level of rhetoric seems certain to further inflame passions in both Japan and China, to the long term detriment of both countries.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

As I wrote before, Communist Chinese leaders and S. Korean politicians are trying to discredit and discriminate to Japan with its past history at international stage for to get sympathy and promoting their products to the world.

If Communist Chinese Government and S. Korean Government do not wanting to moving from the past and then that's their problem. Today Japan is different country and not dwelling on past. Japan has always respected other peoples feeling. Japan has apologized numerous times to peoples who still suffering from past Japan militarizing and crime committed by war time Japanese imperial army. Generation of Japanese Governments have not only apologizing and also giving compensation to victims' country by Government ODA program and via Japanese NGOs. Communist Chinese Government and S. Korean Government need to come clean and tell their citizens how much they received compensation and aid from Japan in the past. They should be honest as being head of state.

No one is perfect if you’re holding grudge on everyone for their mistake and then it will never end. If Korean peoples were holding grudge on former dictator Park Chung-hee and then his daughter Park Geun-hye won’t be president today.

Communist Chinese leaders and S. Korean politicians must grow up and do more for their own country and peoples with sincerity. Stop manipulating and using Japan's past as their propaganda tool for to gain their political career.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Not to play the devils advocate; but why is China going down the same dark path Japan went down in the 1930's?

The Propaganda Machine, the Nationalism, the Military Expansion - it makes China look like hypocrites to site a Horrible Japanese War History that they are beginning to follow in lockstep.

And to what avail?

The conquest & failure of another Asian Empire?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Truth is leaders like Abe secretly believes Yasukuni's "war criminals" were unjustifiably criminalized only because Japan was defeated in the War. In Abe's mind these hoodlums are National Heroes and should be admired & respected not just by few crazy politicians but by all Japanese People... Sounds preposterous? Well that's exactly what's going on right now with Abe's outrageous performances that is outright defiant and belligerent to everyone who knows the real History.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Tohka Jan. 09, 2014 - 03:03PM JST However, always blaming someone else is never the right way to move forward, and China absolutely adores blaming Japan for absolutely everything.

The danger is that Abe and cabinet are full of descendants whose basic urge to revive the glory of the past is deeply embedded. Go back to the warnings before Noda made the move on the J-goverment purchase of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands which awakened China that it has become a long-running dispute. Abe will try to get his constitutional amendment and increased armament, forgetting that economic revival is the single focus he must not be distracted from. But since coming on, his cabinet has spent more time and effort in trying to encircle China than putting effort into peace and building the their economic foundation. Logically there was no benefit to kicking at China when most profitable is their Japanese cars In China. Yet they did. Remember, there is over 20,000 Japanese companies still operating inside China. Noda warned China that any countering action by China of his Senkaku/Diaoyu islands moves, would hurt China more than it would Japan? Well, China trade accounts for 21 percent of Japan's GDP, while Japan trade accounts for only 9 percent of China's GDP. So who do you think has more leverage? So it seems the plan to risk war in order to pull U.S. into Japan’s agenda is still the route being taken. What the Chinese are planning is a hardline now too.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So misguided by so many !

If only things were that simple. Quote from Bloomberg:

"Visitors say they have every right to honor the 2.5 million other Japanese war dead celebrated at Yasukuni; they compare the shrine to the U.S. war cemetery at Arlington.

This is dangerous nonsense. Yasukuni is ground zero for an unrepentant view of Japan’s wartime aggression. During World War II, the shrine served as the “command headquarters” of State Shinto, a religion that deified the emperor and mobilized Japanese subjects to fight a holy war at his behest. The private foundation that runs Yasukuni only added the 14 most controversial “souls” -- surreptitiously -- in 1978.

The shrine’s political mission is on blatant display at the adjacent Yushukan museum, run by the same foundation. There, the Class A war criminals are portrayed as martyrs. Japan’s war in China is supposed to have suppressed banditry and terrorism, while its invasion of the rest of Asia is represented as a war of liberation from Western colonialism. Missing from the extensive exhibits are any mentions of the Rape of Nanjing, the awful experiments conducted by Unit 731 on prisoners of war, or the suffering endured by tens of thousands of “comfort women.”

The museum presents a selective and sly reinterpretation of Japan’s shared history with Asia -- one that is antithetical to reconciliation, convinces few Japanese, and offends neighboring nations that endured the brunt of Japan’s imperial aggression.

Politicians who insist that they are only paying tribute to those who died for their country when they visit Yasukuni are not telling the truth. If that’s all they wanted to do, they could walk five minutes down the road to Chidorigafuchi National Cemetery, which is, like Arlington, Japan’s officially designated war cemetery."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-12/abe-should-end-the-war-over-yasukuni-shrine.html

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Konoe's peace proposal just before the Pacific War started was to pull out the Japanese troops from the Indochina peninsula, and pull out from China except Manchuria while taking measures to prevent the spread of communism, and it even left rooms for negotiation about withdrawal from Manchuria. FD Roosevelt rejected it and let Japan decide to start hostilities with the US as much welcomed by Britain and the Soviets. Japan's action was condemned as a crime against peace by the allies whereas Japan regarded it as a war for self-existence and defence. Yasukuni thinks likewise and ironically enough Herbert Hoover almost shared the view. So it's a never ending story.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The war criminals at Yasukuni should be enshrined elsewhere

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Seiharinokaze

Are you talking about the Draft Proposal Handed by the Japanese Ambassador (Nomura) To the Secretary of State on May 12, 1941? It does not fit your description. Here is an English translation : http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Dip/PaW/209.html

I think you may be talking about a proposal the Prime Minister Konoe had been internally promoting, but which was deprecated in favor of another proposal by foreign minister Yosuke Matsuoka. Yosuke Matsuoka was more closely aligned with the military.

Japan regarded it as a war for self-existence and defence.

Some in Japan regarded all out war as the only way. Some in Japan had more moderate, and reasonable, ideas. Unfortunately those in charge of the military did not respect the idea of civilian government and repeatedly interfered in government. E.g., Matsuoka could override Konoe's proposal. Politicians such as Prime Minister Osachi Hamaguchi, Prime Minister Inukai Tsuyoshi, and Korekiyo Takahashi, all assassinated by the military or by its ideology, were in no way traitors to the nation. They were all by modern standards strong nationalists, and quite brave to speak out, actually. Ironically, being civilians they are not enshrined at Yasukuni, although some of their killers may be.

China's proclamations are actually intended for domestic consumption where shaming Japan is very popular. Various people and nations already have their own options motivated by their own values and/or sometimes political or personal considerations; I don't think China's comments make much of a difference, if any, to the rest of the world. Japan can safely proceed to find its own identity.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CraigHicks,

I am talking about the peace proposal handed by the Japanese ambassador (Nomura) to the Secretary of State (Cordell Hull) in November 1941. The proposal was offered by the Japanese government under Tojo Hideki who succeeded to Konoe. His stance as a premier was basically the same as Konoe's. Talk with the US and find ways to evade war including the withdrawal of the Japanese troops from China. And Matsuoka had already been displaced. But somehow it didn't interest the US. Or was it because the US and the British governments had agreed in the previous year (1940) to send and actually sent 100 American-made fighters as the Flying Tigers to British Burma to open hostilities with Japan as if according to some prearranged plan?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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