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China uses D-Day anniversary to praise Germany, slam Japan

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China uses D-Day anniversary to praise Germany, slam Japan

Too funny!

Every chance Communist China has it uses the logic of a 10 year old bully.

Communist propaganda and thinking is so silly.

17 ( +27 / -9 )

Chinas Government has a short memory, Japan was part of the Alied forces in WW1. When China can face its own history by trying to wipe out the records of the Tiananmen Square history of only 25 years ago and rewrite the past history, HOW CAN THEY EVEN COMMENT ON OTHERS. THE CCP has lost all credibility.

21 ( +30 / -8 )

China thinks she is powerful, but she is not. A powerful country don't feel the necessity to say bad things about other nation all time. I see Japan as a strong nation. I say Japan is strong because only a strong nation could have enough patience with a country like PRC. Chinese made negative image of themselves by making anti-Japanese protests, yet Japanese in Japan didn't attack Chinese stores in Yokohama Chinatown. While one side(China) wants to make provocation, another side(Japan) doesn't really care about their silly claims.

The truth of matter, nobody cares about China and nobody really trust on China. The whole Asia have more trust on Japan than PRC.

17 ( +27 / -11 )

So, does that "deep reflection" have to come with Japanese territory for the apology to stick?

Japan might have more to do in the way of appeasing its neighbors, but lets not pretend this isn't about the Communist Party of China trying to steal Japan's territory and assert hegemony in Asia. Not to mention distracting Chinese people away from the power-play corruption trials, lack of basic human rights, and the slowing of their economy.

Ah, the Communist Party of China is the only group of hypocrites who can claim to protect history and objective truth while simultaneously brutally censoring any mention of their June 4th Tiananmen Square massacre.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

The Chinese government wouldn't even be able to accept an apology at this point... due to the amount of brainwashing they've forced schools to shove down the throats of kids. They've created an enormous generation of Japan-hating zombies that have never even seen war; and aren't entirely able to explain the reason for their own hatred. How do you tell these people that you've accepted the apology of (what they've been told) is their arch-nemesis? All they can do at this point is continue to use Japan as a scapegoat for the rage that has been brewing as a direct result of the massive wealth inequality and Party corruption.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Two wrongs do not make a right. Japan can't use CCP's flaw as an excuse to justify own fault

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Does the PRC have any shame at all?

China might learn from Germany's neighbors and accept Japan's apologies and praise Japan's positive contributions to the world since 1945.

10 ( +16 / -5 )

Its an insult to those brave soldiers who landed in France to put an end to the Nazi fascism. On that day so many of them lost their lives in the attempt while others survived but with terrible injuries. D-Day is about those men not Germany.

26 ( +29 / -3 )

Both Japan and China are purposefully forgetful nations, unwilling to reflect on the ruthless parts of their history. This history continues to taint the present and relationships with internal minorities and neighbouring peoples. Yet they are not the only nations to build their rhetoric of virtue on the reinterpretation of a violent and oppressive past.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

China uses D-Day anniversary to praise Germany, slam Japan

It sounds funny !... I guess it is all for a show supporting China's anti Japan attitude. I guess not many, even Germany are taking China regime praising words seriously, might even feel embarrass to have the country name mentioned and used in this way..

7 ( +9 / -1 )

As I was watching the group photo of the nations leaders who attended the D day ceremony, I was thinking, wow what a mature bunch, why cant the Asian leaders do the same thing. They have clearly moved past such evil and nonsense, but in this part of the world, its like talking to a child who must always win the arguement. Could you imagine a day set aside for the defeat of Japanese imperilism/facism and a celebration of democracy, the liberation and establishment of great countries like SG. Some people in Japan seem to want the opposite; a day of remembrance for the Imperialist. Understandably, It is a bit more complicated than Europe, as we have Communist China, a result of the defeat of Japan. I think Japan, if it wants to be recongnized as a world leader of democracy in Asia, it could take the lead on this.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

On this, I think China is right.

Germany confronted what they did, really apologised and cleaned up the mess.

Japan sort of did this with some politicians and totally didn't with ultra right wingers like Abe.

Large parts of Japan's prewar history are denied. One example is the Nankin Massacre which is glossed over in the official school text books.

Compare, for example the Holocaust Denial laws in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

It is illegal to deny that these atrocities happened.

It's a bit late, but it can still be fixed.

If it isn't confronted, it's just going to drag on and on and on.

-9 ( +16 / -26 )

Even my four year old niece isn't as naive.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Japan is not Germany, that is for sure.

And when two hypocrites call each other hypocrite, it does not mean one is wrong. Both are right.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"China has increasingly contrasted Germany and its public remorse for the Nazi regime to Japan, where repeated official apologies for wartime suffering are sometimes undercut by contradictory comments by conservative politicians."

If the Japanese government would immediately fire and ban from public office any politicians uttering these contradictory comments, it would probably help matters.

-5 ( +4 / -10 )

China's elite have never gotten over the total embarrassment of being conquered not only by Europe, but by that little island country that was the good student. And do they not know that Neo-Nazis are alive and well not only in Germany, but Ukraine and many other countries (usually having a name starting with "National..." Remember N in NS (Nazi) meant "National" (where NS = National Socialism" = state run capitalism). Wait, state run capitalism? That sounds like China. Anyway, normal Chinese have gotten over the war, and I have a great time in China, as I hope normal Chinese have a great time in Japan. Oh yes, the comparison is not between Japan and Nazi Germany, the valid comparison is between Japan and European Imperialism.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Does anyone really care or take anything China says seriously ?

9 ( +15 / -6 )

In 1972, 1995, and in 2001, various Japanese prime ministers have issued what they considered to be a valid apology. Each time, China rejected the statement as a valid apology for one or more of three reasons: 1) the lack of the explicit mention of the word “apology,” 2) the lack of the explicit mention of China as the victim of Japanese aggression, and 3) the apology was only stated in a speech, but not written down in an official document. In 1995, on the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II, the Government of Japan expressed its resolution through the statement by the Prime Minister, which states that during a certain period in the past, Japan’s conduct caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, including China, and the Prime Minister expressed his feeling of deep remorse and stated his heartfelt apology, while giving his word to make efforts for peace.

Beijing International Airport, Shanghai Pudong Airport, and the Beijing subway system were all constructed with the help of Japanese ODA. Yet because the Chinese government refuses to publicize this fact, most Chinese citizens are under the impression that Japan has provided little, if any, financial aid to China.

See more at: http://www.tealeafnation.com/2012/12/has-japan-ever-apologized-to-china-for-its-wartime-aggression/#sthash.XHxU2zru.dpuf
11 ( +13 / -2 )

"Does anyone really care or take anything China says seriously ?"

all those big US companies over there do..that's why many americans dont have jobs...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People keep dredging up stuff that happened 70 years ago...let's move on, folks. Plenty of bigger issues in the future that need our focus for which mud-slinging about the past won't solve.

7 ( +7 / -1 )

I agree with China that Japan should be as mature about the past as Germany. But at the same time I wonder why CNN was blocked in China on the anniversary of the uprising in Tiananmen Square. Seems to me both sides need to grow up.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I am fascinated by the comments here from people unable to react to China's remarks with a mature attitude.

First of all, China is able to recognize that Germany has acted correctly. This is a very positive thing. They have placed their "marker" on the table. If Japan now apologizes in the same unequivocal manner as Germany has, China will find it extremely difficult to deny or criticize in the manner they have done here.

“Germany’s sincere remorse has won the confidence of the world,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said

Yes, the Chinese can recognize sincere remorse. A very hopeful sign.

How do you tell these people that you've accepted the apology of (what they've been told) is their arch-nemesis?

The world should be able to recognize a Japanese apology, just as they have the German. But since there has not been one, the world can not. To apologize with genuine remorse is the right thing to do. Japan would not be doing this for China, but for Japan. Perhaps Japan's emperor could deliver it. I suppose that a genuine and sincere apology from Japan would cause a lot of debate and mixed opinions in China, but why should Japan worry about that?

-2 ( +6 / -9 )

most governments try to hide the bad from their past .

4 ( +4 / -0 )

What the hell do they know about D-day?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

China has increasingly contrasted Germany and its public remorse for the Nazi regime to Japan, where repeated official apologies for wartime suffering are sometimes undercut by contradictory comments by conservative politicians.

As much as I dislike China's domestic politics and much of its international positions, I have to say there is some validity to this. Contrition has to be heartfelt and truly understood and accepted by the population, not done simply for PR purposes. And I don't believe Japan meets that standard.

-4 ( +2 / -7 )

china you are an idiot. leave us out of it.

sincerly, germany

10 ( +12 / -2 )

On this, I think China is right.

I think you are mistaken.

China has never confronted or apologized for what they have done even in recent history.

Germany confronted what they did, really apologised and cleaned up the mess.

China never has.

Japan sort of did this with some politicians and totally didn't with ultra right wingers like Abe.

China never has.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

I suppose even a broken clock like China is right twice a day.

Germany's public and private remorse combined with efforts to educate young people about the horrors of what happened has been remarkable. The pain and guilt caused by the war is very much alive for Germans today even though most of us have consigned the war to history. The same can hardly be said of the Japanese, many of whom struggle with even basic facts about the war.

3 ( +6 / -4 )

China thinks she is powerful, but she is not. A powerful country don't feel the necessity to say bad things about other nation all time. I see Japan as a strong nation. I say Japan is strong because only a strong nation could have enough patience with a country like PRC. Chinese made negative image of themselves by making anti-Japanese protests, yet Japanese in Japan didn't attack Chinese stores in Yokohama Chinatown. While one side(China) wants to make provocation, another side(Japan) doesn't really care about their silly claims.

The truth of matter, nobody cares about China and nobody really trust on China. The whole Asia have more trust on Japan than PRC.

Exactly. I'm sick & tired of China bashing Japan for every little agenda of theirs.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

In 1972, 1995, and in 2001, various Japanese prime ministers have issued what they considered to be a valid apology.

What they considered an apology?

China rejected the statement as a valid apology..[because of].. the lack of the explicit mention of the word “apology,”

Wow. So, how were they supposed to accept it as an apology? Were they supposed to take the Japanese prime minister's word that it was one?

Here's the danger: An insincere or ambiguous apology puts one in a deeper hole than no apology at all. Japan has dug a deep hole for itself in this matter and then complains that the world is looking down on them.

China has never confronted or apologized for what they have done even in recent history.

While true, this is not relevant. China someday will have to apologize for Tibet. But that doesn't let Japan off the hook for the wrongs it committed in China. A moral nation of the first rank has not, in centuries, put itself in the position where it will have much of anything to apologize for. A second-rank nation will have done wrongs and has apologized clearly and unambiguously for them -- and, over time, they become respected as first rank. A third-rank nation will have done wrongs and not clearly atoned or apologized for them. They will remain third rank for a long time, untrusted by its neighbors, and deservedly so. China is a fourth-rank nation: still actively committing wrongs. China doesn't need to apologize at this point as much as it needs to stop doing evil.

(Deep down, however, I do not believe the government of China truly represents, and has the loyalty of, the Chinese people. Not nearly as much as the military government of Japan had the support of the Japanese people when they were committing horrendous acts of violence against their neighbors.)

Those of us who love Japan would like to see it move up out of the third tier. (USA, in my opinion, is also on the lowest tier with China. The current government of Japan seems to want to join us there.)

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

The valid comparison is not between Nazi Germany and Japan, it is between Japan and European Imperialism, both of which were atrocious. Japan did not kill Jews in Japan, although Germany tried pressuring Japan to do so. Instead, the story is becoming better known, Japan saved thousands of European Jews by giving them transit visas, and when they arrived in Japan, they were then send to South America or to Shanghai, which was under Japanese control and there was a network of Jewish organizations to take care of them. There was a vibrant Jewish community in Japan before the war, but most left after the war due to the devastation, not because of bad treatment. That is a history that should be written.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The same can hardly be said of the Japanese, many of whom struggle with even basic facts about the war.

Can it be said of the Chinese government? No.

First of all, China is able to recognize that Germany has acted correctly.

I am seriously fascinated that you have not noted that China has never taken any steps to actually act as Germany does. Using Germany to slam Japan is hardly the same as actually apologizing and acting like Germany.

China's attempts to use Germany to slam Japan while ignoring its own crimes is completely transparent.

The world should be able to recognize a Japanese apology, just as they have the German. But since there has not been one, the world can not. To apologize with genuine remorse is the right thing to do. Japan would not be doing this for China, but for Japan.

The Japanese government has done this several times. The Chinese government has done this never. Yes, idiots like Ishihara and Hashimoto say stupid things, but the Japanese government has apologized. The Chinese government seems to have no intention of ever doing so. While Japan still has a ways to go with allowing an ignorant man like Morii still stay on at NHK after his stupid remarks. China has never had one official apologize for even one of its crimes. I have no trouble recognizing that. China is good at talking the talk when talking about Germany, but they have never walked the walk.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

what do you expect when Abe goes around doing the same thing?.If you think Japan is the most popular country in Asia, you must not be living in Asia outside of Japan. Go to Korea (the 2 Koreas), China, Malaysia,Myamar and the rest and you will get a different picture.The atrocities the Japanese army commited and the blood on their hands will not be washed away in a hundred years. The koreans have never forgiven Japan and the way most japanese leaders are behaving thats not going to happen. PM Murayama has told Abe to forget about containing China and show some sincerity. Most Japanese don't even know their country had gone into Korea, captured a princess, tortured and burned her alive. They were forced to renounce their korean names and take up Japanese ones... Many Koreans wonder why the japanese dislike/hate them so much when Japan was the one commiting the crime.. I am not going to get into the even more atrocious crimes that have been commited.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

China is not wrong on everything, and on this issue they are correct. So it is time for Japan to recognize this and make a better effort, sooner rather than later.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

China is not wrong on everything,

The Chinese government are hypocrites.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Japan saved thousands of European Jews by giving them transit visas

The Japanese who granted those visas was acting against orders from Tokyo. I praise him for sure, but he was acting alone. Just as the world does not blame Japan for the massacre at the Lod airport, who were acting on their own.

By the way, at the end of the war, there are many stories about Chinese saving and protecting Japanese people on the mainland.

I am seriously fascinated that you have not noted that China has never taken any steps to actually act as Germany does.

That is irrelevant. China has indicated that it thinks Germany has done the right thing. Japan should know better. When it comes to China needing to apologize, the world can point to China's remarks about Germany in this matter. But the issue of concern is Japan's repeated failure to provide a clear and unambiguous statement of remorse and responsibility. No wrong of China can remove Japan's responsibility, and it seems childish to pretend that it can.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Two words China: Hypocrites Tibet (430,000 killed and still counting! )

6 ( +7 / -1 )

China thinks she is powerful, but she is not. A powerful country don't feel the necessity to say bad things about other nation all time. I see Japan as a strong nation. I say Japan is strong because only a strong nation could have enough patience with a country like PRC. Chinese made negative image of themselves by making anti-Japanese protests, yet Japanese in Japan didn't attack Chinese stores in Yokohama Chinatown. While one side(China) wants to make provocation, another side(Japan) doesn't really care about their silly claims. The truth of matter, nobody cares about China and nobody really trust on China. The whole Asia have more trust on Japan than PRC.

Amen!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Two words China: Hypocrites

Yes, it can be hard when obvious hypocrites are right about something. And, in this case, China is correct about Japan, relative to Germany.

It would be nice if Japan would remove that "weapon" from the hand of the hypocrites and set more of a better example, and follow through on it, as Germany has.

-1 ( +5 / -7 )

Domestically this logic may make sense, but externally, this message sounds weak.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China uses D-Day anniversary to praise Germany, slam Japan

That's fine. I use the Tiannemen anniversary to praise those protestors who were standing up against their own tyrannical government and slam the Chinese government for their mindless slaughter of these citizens who were murdered for knowing the difference between right and wrong. It's a bit rich (ok, that's an astronomical understatement) for China to lecture Japan, given its own history of invasion, bullying and genocide. I mean, millions of Chinese were killed during the Cultural Revolution versus what? 30,000 during Nanjing? They say you can't put a price on the value of a Human life, but at the end of the day: the number of Chinese lives killed by the Chinese government to date massively exceeds the number claimed by Japan. And have the CCP ever made any apologies for their own atrocities? Have they apologized to Tibet? To East Turkminestan? To their own citizen? I didn't think so. Pot, kettle, black. At least Japan have apologized and made reparations, as well as taking steps to change their ways for the better.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

it can be hard when obvious hypocrites are right about something.

I am not convinced that it is 'right' when a hypocrite says something they obviously do not believe in.

But the issue of concern is Japan's repeated failure to provide a clear and unambiguous statement of remorse and responsibility

Then Prime Minister Murayama's apology to the people of Asia for the crime commited against them by Japan was very clear and unambiguous.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

gokai_wo_manekuJUN. 07, 2014 - 09:12AM JST China's elite have never gotten over the total embarrassment of being conquered not only by Europe, but by that little island country that was the good student.

Amazing, amazing, thank you…

I have just been waiting for some japanophile to provide his own poison.

You have just provided the perfect rationale and justification for China to want to build up its military now that they can afford to. Just amazing…

0 ( +3 / -3 )

China has a point, but it shouldn't be made on D-Day remembrance.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Domestically this logic may make sense, but externally, this message sounds weak.

That's because IT IS a weak message. The PRC conveniently overlooks that Nazi Germany's "claiming" of territories substantially helped start World War II.

We'll just take a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. Oh, and we'll take that too.

Yes, Japan has a fair bit of work to do, ie with the silly "review this and that from 70 years ago", but it is really insulting to all those who made the ultimate sacrifice to bring the war to a close, regardless of nationality, to have their deaths being turned into an Japanophobic !@#fest.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The world knows about China's atrocities and the sight of Mao Zedong's portrait still hanging in Tiannamen Square is an insult to the millions butchered. The world also knows about certain characters in the Japanese government and state sponsored broadcasting trying to whitewash and obfuscate past crimes. As long as Japan allows idiots with about as much moral fibre as the odious leaders of the present day CCP defecate on the carpet, they are leaving themselves wide open to criticism. You expect this kind of thing from corrupt, unelected bullies and if Japan wants to sink to that level by allowing similar behaviour, they deserve to be attacked.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Although I don't agree entirely with what Mr. Hong said about Japan, but he has a valid point - Japan has been trying to play as victims of WWII instead being straight.

At the end of the day, Japan has to pay for its dirty tricks. Finally, Mr. Hong shouldn't have mentioned Japan at all.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

How does this clown Hong Lei keep a straight face while saying this stuff???! And what a day to pick to say it. China, you have no respect in the international community. Japan, whilst agree that the country has not adopted the same attitude as Germany after the way, is a fully respected member of the international community and a valuable player on the world stage for almost 70 years. China on the other hand....facepalm

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Clearly, I'm going to share what seems to be a very unpopular opinion here, but China, for all of its infantile belligerence over the past year or so with regard to the Senkakus, is dead on correct about this.

Yes, Japan has apologized. Several times, in fact, with each successive apology being more profound and descriptive than the last. But for every apology that's made comes a Japanese Prime Minister -- read, "Duly elected political representative of the Japanese people" -- undo any faith one can have in said apologies by issuing challenges to the veracity of issues addressed in the apologies.

With the revolving door that is Japanese national politics comes an dissociative identity disorder of nationwide proportion as the electorate continues to waver back and forth between administrations that have expressed what I feel to be truly heartfelt contrition for Japan's acts in the past, and administrations that want all apologies to be revised with qualifications, exclusions, exceptions, and justifications.

You can't tell someone you beat the crap out of, "I'm sorry I hit you," then come back a little later and say, "Well, it was more of a push, really," then come back later still and say, "I didn't want to hit you, but someone else made me do it." then cap it off with scarcely concealed intimations of, "Wait. Was anyone really hit at all?" while the background refrain of, "We smacked you for your own good"* plays continuously just out of hearing range.

This has been going on since 1972. It's small wonder China and South Korea have a difficult time letting the issue settle.

In order for China and South Korea to let the issue rest, Japan would have to reach a lasting, demonstrable nationwide consensus on its culpability during the war. And I just don't see that coming any time soon when Abe receives the kind of current broad support he does from nationalist loons and conservatives.

Which means this running battle with China is never going to go away.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

One reason China is losing it credibility and influence in foreign affairs : because it can't help always looking BACKWARDS.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Europeans occupied China much longer than Japan, including Germany. Why has China never asked European countries for an apology? Why have European countries never given China for an apology? And if you think the Japanese were much worse than the Europeans, you have completely swollowed White history. Furtunately, there is a photographic record of the last 50 years of Empire to dispell the notion that China and the European Imperialists were having a big party that was interrupted by evil Japan.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

gokai_wo_manekuJun. 07, 2014 - 01:10PM JST Europeans occupied China much longer than Japan, including Germany. Why has China never asked European countries for an apology?

Because Communist China doesn't want Europe to kowtow before Xi feet yet, they want Japan to.

It's all a game being played out by a childish Communist State.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

For the communist government of China to survive and prevent a massive public uprising, it has to deflect the people's attention from its own post-1945 atrocities by focusing their attention on Japan and its frequent denials of WWII wrongdoings. This strategy on their part seems pretty obvious, but unfortunately Japan's politicians and their regular missteps make it all too easy for China to use this tactic.

The hypocrisy of the PRCs accusations against Japan astounds me, though, particularly given that even by the most conservative estimates the numbers of people killed under the post-WWII Mao regime (1949-1979) is far higher than deaths attributable to Japan under its brutal rule of the country. China obviously needs to come to terms with its own atrocities, including deaths in its suppression of counterrevolutionaries in the late 1940s to early 1950s, the Great Leap Forward (1958-61), the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), Tibet and labor camps.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China while CORRECT in its assessment of Japan regarding WWII, Japan has for decades utterly failed to deal honestly with is past, the un-official, often mumbled "regrets", etc etc all the while high level politicians & PMs(including abe) etc etc clearly DENY a whole lot of stuff...........

But D-day was the wrong place for China to rub Japans nose in it.

Now many say China should deal with its own history, well DUH, clearly that's a yes BUT China is a commie state where no one has freedom so the people cant speak out without HUGE RISK their & their families well being. Meanwhile Japan a supposed democracy for decades their excuse is............ well they don't damn well have one!

China's day of reckoning wrt to its history will come, meanwhile Japan has had decades to deal with & bury its history but has consciously chosen NO TOO!!

China often picks the wrong times to bring this stuff up BUT Japan has had the power to STOP all this crap but chooses NO TOO, so she reaps what she sews

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Actually China is hardly correct in its posturing and misinformation about Japan and its past apologies.

Last time I checked, then PM Koizumi personally visited the Marco Polo bridge as well as the memorial hall of Japanese aggression in China, and offered his apologies and vow to never forget what happened.

Utterly despicable that the Chinese government would take such a historical day and piggy back on it to engage in petty arguments.

Truly shameless, this Chi-comm government. It's D-Day, show some bloody respect for those who gave their lives on that day.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Problem with Japan's apologies is they rotate in and out. Germany has a universal consensus it was wrong. With Japan one PM apologizes and the next says it never happened.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Chinas propaganda antics are becoming so predictable. Don´t they realize that by now everybody is just yawning?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

To politicize such a solemn event is flat-out shameful. But then again, it's China--do we expect classy moves from that government?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I hope all this "apologies" nonsense will end someday. Germany and USA didn't punish nazi companies for using slave workers during the war, all of them are still on business and still making profit. There's no apology enough sincere for those actions, and that applies to Manchukuo and Korea; Tiannanmen, Tibet and "Great Leap Forward"; Auschwitz and The Leningrad Siege; Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Japanese Concentration Camps.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Berstie Wooster June 7 I would go wholeheartedly along with what you put together. I do wish Japan would develop the emotional maturity to go beyond jingoistic nationalism and enact Japan's version of "Laws agains Holocaust Denial". The problem we have to face in Japan is despite a siries of apologies issued in the past, we have ultra-conservative politicians with the rivisionist take on the past history making statements that undercut the issued apology, intended only for domestic consumption.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

To politicize such a solemn event is flat-out shameful. But then again, it's China--do we expect classy moves from that government?

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the core gripe that I, and many others have with this repulsive action from the PRC. I am not making excuses for Japan's shortcomings, and I doubt many.. REASONABLE people are. These people did not die so that the CCP could feel justified and entitled to make crass political comments on a day of remembrance.

Nothing is sacred to the CCP, except their own skins and whims and wishes. Granted that the annoying habit of "reviewing apologies" and so forth is STILL happening (it shouldn't be), at least show some class, and a little bit more respect towards the dead. Today is NOT CHINA'S DAY. It is for the French and the Western Allies to remember sacrifices made. The CCP seem to be so hellbent on defiling everything they touch due to an inane immature obsession to demand that they be the center of absolutely everything. Actions like this sicken me, and I am revolted to actually have to call such ...filth "fellow Chinese" as well. My apologies to the rest of the world for having to put up with their infantile garbage - I can only hang my head in shame.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Sex slaves/Comfort woman.

Yasukuni Shrine/Military museum distorting historical facts. I was there. I saw the distortion in person.

White washing every post-baby boom generation on Japan's horrific crimes against humanity in WWI and WWII in public education and social-political discourse. I have seen the elementary, secondary and college history textbooks. Complete ignorance of Japan's horrific crimes against humanity. Its beyond shameful.

I don't blame Japan wanting to amend its constitution towards a more militaristic stance. That's your right.

But everything I've stated, Germans has either outlawed or shown public remorse in the most sincere and genuine way.

I don't agree with most of the things the Chinese do or say but they are absolutely right about Japan when comparing it to the Germans.

If you people don't recognize this, you are just as shameful.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

The CCP seems to be always keen to ridicule themselves internationally just for the sake of feeding propaganda to their brainwashed populace.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"The Chinese government wouldn't even be able to accept an apology at this point... due to the amount of brainwashing they've forced schools to shove down the throats of kids. They've created an enormous generation of Japan-hating zombies that have never even seen war; and aren't entirely able to explain the reason for their own hatred. How do you tell these people that you've accepted the apology of (what they've been told) is their arch-nemesis? All they can do at this point is continue to use Japan as a scapegoat for the rage that has been brewing as a direct result of the massive wealth inequality and Party corruption."

EXACTLY! The same applies to South Korea.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Please just shut the hell up, China. Leave us Germans alone, we're the last ones to buy your double standards. Germany didn't only account for their past relations with their former enemies/neighbouring states, it also accounted for what was going on inside the country, something you'll never understand. Tiananmen? Laogai? "Chinese mainstream"? Open your eyes and see what's going on in your own country since Mao took over.

Seriously, it's about time Germany makes a clear statement on this since they're always abusing our history for their nonsense. They also shouldn't forget Germany still is a close ally of Japan. One of the things that didn't change after WW2, by the way.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I am not convinced that it is 'right' when a hypocrite says something they obviously do not believe in.

Why not? People believe what the US government tells them.

Besides Japan has not sincerely apologized and never will because of the deep down belief that they are still superior to their Chinese founders. Too much pride and inability to accept the reality of modern times (or follow norms estabablished in other developed countries) is the reason Japan is hated by all of its Asian neighbors.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I agree with the premise.....Japan has a lot to do to educate their children of the past. What I don't know is if this is some kind of "Japanese thing" on glossing it over.

But China is the LAST country on the planet to bring it up. Their government is so scummy. Much like the gutter oil they use in their deep fryers.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

China may be right, I don't really know the full Japanese record for apologizing about these terrible events. Of course, Asian apologizing usually involve a lot of money, whereas Europeans tend to grovel a lot. I believe Japan has thrown very much money to China. Nevertheless, it's rich for the Chinese Communist Party to talk of atrocities given their own track record. To me, that's the rub. Japan could do better at apologizing, I suppose, but as we say back home: China, what have you done for me recently?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The main point is when someone is right about something they are right, no matter how many other wrongs they have done in the past. China is right about this, so admit it and fix it instead of constantly bringing up China's shortcomings as an excuse not to.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

People keep dredging up stuff that happened 70 years ago...let's move on, folks.

Not true Ocgoodtimes. The complaints arise from what politicians are doing today. The denials are today. The complaints about memorials to victims are today. The textbook omissions are today. The calling of victims liars is today. Revisions of apologies is today. And what is done today reflects the attitudes of today and is an indicator of what is likely to happen tomorrow.

Poland is not worried about Germany because Germany is not doing what Japan does today. China is worried about Japan and they cannot be blamed for that. Japan might have more reason to be worried about China, but they both have reason to worry about they other, and frankly, they both suck and are both responsible for the worry.

Same quote:

People keep dredging up stuff that happened 70 years ago...let's move on, folks.

Okay, so, forget about D-Day then? I don't think so.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

'All they can do at this point is continue to use Japan as a scapegoat for the rage that has been brewing as a direct result of the massive wealth inequality and Party corruption.'

I couldn't agree more. The CCP see the whitewashed textbooks, revisionism, the museum at Yasukuni and in particular, the Nanking/sex-slave deniers as geese that keep laying. This is very easily presented as what the CCP wants to instill, an image of Japan as insincere, unapologetic racists. The rightwing idiots feeding the amoral CCP are disgracing the decent people of this country, many of whom are businesspeople exasperated by their stupidity, and I have very good friends and business acquaintances in China sick to death of their own leaders letting off stink bombs.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Over thirty family members were able to attend Yesterdays 70th anniversary of World War Two’s D-Day landings in France, although this is not my first trip, my Japanese Mother accompanied my English Grandfather, with the expressed invite and wishes of the Royal Air Force Association as Grandfather's carer. A very emotionally humbling experience.

If indeed the government of China used the 70th anniversary of World War Two’s D-Day landings as a political tool to snarl and harass the people of Japan, then President Xi Jinping besmirches and shames the memories to victims of the horrors committed at Nanjing

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Communist China, whose government imprisons and kills off anyone who disagrees with it, lies through its teeth at every opportunity, ignores its own bloody history, pushes its citizens around with impunity (witness construction for the Olympic games). Who really gives a hoot what it has to say in public? Japan is far from perfect, but at least it's a free country.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

does anyone even care what china says anyways?!?!......

well, looking at the number of people who comment here, the answer to that is: yes. apparently, a lot!

it makes me think that this "d-day-slam-japan" thing, although highly political, holds at least some weight. because really, the only defense of critics here is that "china doesn't apologize for their crimes, why do the japanese have to apologize for theirs. japan never done any crimes anyways, in fact, we saved jews (against tokyo's orders)".........

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

We could remember that when Japan normalized relations with China, Mao said that there was not need to apologize because Japanese people suffered from the military as much as the Chinese.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If it was not China saying this, it could be another country in Asia.

The problem is not the formal statements of regret that Japan has issued over the years, but a lack of contrition in the nation and the people. It is as though pushing out a few words on paper has allowed Japan to wash its hands of all the evil acts it committed during the war. What does the average Japanese know about Unit 731? Nothing. All washed away by Hiroshima - Japan the victim.

Germany has been forgiven by all for the evil acts committed during the war because of it genuine contrition for what happened and the recognition that ordinary German people at the very least allowed it to come about. About 10 years ago, a British friend of mine was working in Frankfurt and was having a beer with a German colleague. At one point the German broke into a huge rambling apology for the war, quite embarrassing my friend. It was not necessary what he did, but one cannot doubt the contrition that he felt - a man born well after the war.

An apology is not about saying a form of words, but about genuinely feeling guilty and begging forgiveness. Japan has never asked for Asia's forgiveness for the war and feels no guilt and therefore it cannot be forgiven.

Japan's attitude is a childish version of, "Look, I said sorry. Why are you still angry? Stop sulking!"

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

what other Asian countries are taking the same attitude as this horrible CCP, other than the Koreas? Name a couple - I can't think of any that would stoop to the same level (the dregs) as CCP would. Other countries were subjected to the same brutal rule of the Imperial Army, but other than the Koreas, I rarely if ever hear anything negative - they all love Japan!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

We could(should) remember that when Japan normalized relations with China, Mao said that there was not(no) need to apologize because Japanese people suffered from the military as much as the Chinese.

Excellent point and needs to be repeated

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Let see if China ever makes an apology to the Tibetan & Uyghur people for invaded their country and turn them into another Chinese states. What I (China) said is not what I (China) do .A bully & a hypocrites!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

chairman mao might have forgiven japan, but if japan not only denial and start glorifying the brutal invasion, and had named them hero in the yakushumi shrine, call an excellent point is incredible.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"Does anyone really care or take anything China says seriously?"

CHINA doesn't say anything.

Nor does JAPAN or the U.S.A. or any other country.

Certain individuals in these countries vomit this garbage and rags like this report it, trying to make it look like the opinion of several million people.

China has increasingly contrasted Germany and its public remorse for the Nazi regime to Japan

WHO in China said this?

Let's be specific

0 ( +3 / -3 )

tokyo-star: to state that other natons in Asia love Japan is wrong and somewhat myopic. Feelings may not run so high, but there is antipathy towards Japan at best

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

There seems to be no end to the despicable comments Chinese leaders come up with. These people have no shame nor any pride. They grab any opportunity to defile Japan not realizing they show themselves as total idiots lacking any credibility.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

gokai_wo_maneku writes:

"We could remember that when Japan normalized relations with China, Mao said that there was not need to apologize because Japanese people suffered from the military as much as the Chinese."

Fizzbit obsequiously pipes in: "Excellent point and needs to be repeated"

One should check the history on this "excellent point." Chairman Mao made no reference whatsoever about the suffering of the Japanese people. Claiming that he did is untrue.

The event behind the "no apology needed" remark came when then-Prime Minister Tanaka went to Beijing in 1972 to normalize relations, and offered a personal apology to the Chairman at a state dinner. Mao took the opportunity to make a joke, saying that Japan didn't need to apologize for attacking China because, without Japan's aggression, the Communist revolution would not have succeeded. I frankly do not understand the mentality of people who would want to twist that into an expression of sympathy by Mao about the suffering of the Japanese people.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I think quite a few don't actually get it.

Whether your points are valid or not, are completely irrelevant because of the nature of the date and the serious, reflective nature of such a day of remembrance, and that view should hold FOR THE DAY.

I wonder if the Republicans and Dems/similar in other countries have savage political stoushes on their national days of remembrance. It's just... disgusting.

I'm wondering if for example Australia and New Zealand make it a point to have a political !!@#fight particularly on each others' national days of significance/remembrance. OR France and Germany.

Have some respect, please, and at least LAY OFF the political nonsense, just for the day. The day belongs to the veterans, and only them. These are solemn occasions, and I find it really foul for ANY PARTY to politicize them in any way.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Its an insult to those brave soldiers who landed in France to put an end to the Nazi fascism. On that day so many of them lost their lives in the attempt while others survived but with terrible injuries. D-Day is about those men not Germany.

Zichi, you are right, but for me the most important is that all the former belligerents are having lunch together talking about the future because they have been able to align and clear this dark part of History!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Have some respect, please, and at least LAY OFF the political nonsense, just for the day. The day belongs to the veterans, and only them. These are solemn occasions,

I'd like to the the veterans fought their wars so that their children could have a chance to live in peace. One of the man combatants -- Germany -- has come a long way. It doesn't appear likely that Germany and its neighbors will be engaging in war again. So those veterans can rest in peace.

With Japan, as many have pointed out, things are a bit different. I am not so sure the veterans can rest so easily. Suffice to say that genuinely working for peace is the best way to honor veterans.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Please remember the public amnesia the US's fault. After the war, talk about the war was forbidden by McArthur because he wanted Japanes to concentrate on the future, making a capitalist democratic model for the rest of Asia. Amnesia was imposed. But we know more than you think. Teachers and teachers union is very leftist, and teachers make supplementary materials to explain what the textbooks do not. But few of us were interested in history anyway.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Right wing revisionists are arsenic and old lace, jilted political has-beens affording a platform for the Chinese Foreign Ministry to preach 'sorry' is still the hardest word.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China is right, in terms of what they say about Japan refusing to admit to history, but this is in no way the venue to preach it. D-Day has nothing to do with WWII in Asia, and in fact most Japanese think WWII started in 1942 and not 1939, so this kind of petty politics shouldn't be a part of such ceremonies or speeches.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

China, did not even exist in WWII. It was established in 1948 three years after WWII ended by waging a war against a real WWII Allied nation, The Republic of China (Taiwan). Maybe this is why China has so little understanding of western history. Nobody but nobody is buying this nonsense.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

China, did not even exist in WWII.

Note with care the perverse thinking behind the above point. The political entity that became PRC did not fully consolidate power until the late 1940s -- a technical fact. But it is also a real fact that the Chinese people existed, lived in the land we call "China" and were often brutally abused by the Japanese in WWII. So, the Japanese military attacks a country and throws it into political chaos, commits countless atrocities, and expects to get away with it because the PRC was not able to unify the country until 1948. Wow, talk about nonsense, Ossan.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Hahaha @ China. its like comparing to some chinese driving students, whom i knew many of them, every time they failed the written exams they will tell everyone even the staff and directors that the driving school is discriminating and undermining their abilities by giving them harder written tests/exams when in fact we get the same treatments and same papers. and will make noises that japanese are giving special treatments to southeast asian foreigners who also enrolled at this same local driving school and who also failed the exams many times like them. while the school bashed and discriminated them (chinese). funny mentality they have . so when they go to Ministry of Land and Transport they cheat , with their skin covered with written questions and answers that MLT staff have to check their bodies first before sitting and if found they are asked to washed their hands feet with soap . as there is a sink found in every MLT exam rooms ..

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

German already stand up for a long time. But Japan is still on his knees.

This is the facts, and it will go on. Any other discussion is useless.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

China, did not even exist in WWII. It was established in 1948 three years after WWII ended by waging a war against a real WWII Allied nation, The Republic of China (Taiwan).

Sorry, Ossan, but this particular line of logic is utter nonsense. China existed long before Japan possessed even the most rudimentary relevance on the world stage. The civil war that was raging in China while Japan was taking advantage of the political turmoil was most certainly one occuring within a long established political entity.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Yabits: Yes, Mao made a joke! That also in itself supports the view that he did not think an apology was necessary. @Fizzbit: Thank you for cleaning up my English!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China. its like comparing to some chinese driving students...they cheat , with their skin covered with written questions and answers that MLT staff have to check their bodies

So, an entire nation of people can be categorized by the actions of a few driving students? I hope you come to realize that this kind of prejudice only serves to prove they have good reason to suspect the worst from many Japanese people.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

A fascist and war criminal's grandchild,a person insist to militant confront with other and cancel war limitation , keeps saying peace and for the sack of peace, is this the 21 century's new style joke?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Japan did something that never happened in the past 5000 years. They unified China back in the 40s.

However Japan is going down the tubes economically.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Just because it is China who says this does not mean that she is not right. So long as Japan continues to deny history and facts, she will continue to let China hype on this. My American boss once told me that water is wet and rocks are hard. And whether it is a white man or a black man or woman who says this, it is the same!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

No one in the West is swallowing China's propaganda war, except already anti-Japanese racists. It's just not subtle enough.

It's too clearly obvious what ideas they are trying to establish and the intention is just too obviously malicious.

Decades of milieu control in China may have afforded the Communist Party control over Groupthink. It won't work in the West.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The only thing that China's comments such as these proves to the entire world is how much China HATES Japan. But since we know how much China hates Japan, just about anything they say or do against Japan begs the question of whether Chinas position is based on objective facts or just hate.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The only thing that China's comments such as these proves to the entire world is how much China HATES Japan.

“What Japanese leaders are doing has been widely condemned in the international community. We again urge Japan’s leaders to face up to and deeply reflect on the history of invasion and take real steps to correct their mistakes to win the trust of its neighbors in Asia and in the international community.”

I speak as one who likes Japan and wants the best for it. At best, I feel ambivalent about China. But in this case, with the comments above, they are right. It's clearly Japan's actions that show a lack of reflection and remorse that Japan's neighbors deplore -- and not Japan itself. Ordinary decent Japanese people deplore the revisionists who do not want to take responsibility for all the misery they caused.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

China definitely does not hate Japan. The people generally hate those who deny history and try to twist the facts. People in ASEAN hate these people too. But the government, like the one in my country is just powerless to defy Japan and economically we need Japan. Nowadays, we need China more. So we slant towards China and try not to upset Japan too much! Whatever the case, the facts of history remain unchanged and we can only hope that Japan learns from Germany and we can live as 1 happy Asia!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Yabits,

That Japan has not shown sufficient reflection and remorse (and compensation) is just one of the memes ... the libels actually ... that the Chinese and others are spreading about today's Japanese for completely unrelated political and economic benefits.

They do so mostly by using activists who could not even read and write when all the relevant reflection and remorse (and compensation) was shown and paid. Core activists who are not only indoctrinated into such ideas, but enculted into a regime of hate and lies.

A regime of hate and lies which all to easy are turned upon domestic targets and threats.

Outsiders show not be swept along by the tide of their intellectual pollution.

The current global social media and media campaigns have nothing to do with whatever moral argument they are supposed to represent. It is all about political and economic benefits in the here and now. Both the erroneous correlation of Japanese with Nazis and this game of praising to embarrass Japan in front of Westerners who know nothing of Asian history are just cynical political strategies.

Today's Japanese have no responsibility for the past. As sincere and formal apologies have been made as any State can and compensation and loans and grants and investments and liberal amounts of technological transfer, both legal and illegal have happened.

Japan cannot accept that every 20 years it is required to humble and whip ... and get the check book out to compensate whoever wants some Yen. It has to stop otherwise the children of the children of the children of the children of the will still being coming forward asking for more.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

That Japan has not shown sufficient reflection and remorse (and compensation) is just one of the memes ... the libels actually ...

It's anything but a "meme." It's obvious to the most unbiased observer. The contrast between Germany and Japan in this matter is night and day. I'm sorry you are blind to the difference.

Core activists who are not only indoctrinated into such ideas, but enculted into a regime of hate and lies. Outsiders show not be swept along by the tide of their intellectual pollution.

A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing but meaningless drivel.

Both the erroneous correlation of Japanese with Nazis and this game of praising to embarrass Japan in front of Westerners who know nothing of Asian history are just cynical political strategies.

Tell that to the witnesses of the Bataan death march, to name but one of numerous atrocities.

Today's Japanese have no responsibility for the past.

Unfortunately, they have a lot of responsibility, largely thanks to those before them who could not break the cycle with proper repentance the way the Germans did. It is clear you have little understanding in these matters. You simply can't use "technological transfer" as some proof of compensation if the decision was yours alone it was for that purpose. Japan seems very foolish to think others could be bought off in that way. Perhaps that foolishness explains why it has to keep repeating the same mistakes. It is amazing how much continual damage these revisionists keep inflicting on Japan.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

yabits Jun. 10, 2014 - 04:07AM JST Unfortunately, they have a lot of responsibility, largely thanks to those before them who could not break the cycle with proper repentance the way the Germans did. It is clear you have little understanding in these matters.

It is doubtful that it will be as easy as the post WWII rapprochement between West Germany and its Western neighbors. West Germany and France had a lot more in common on many levels than Japan and China do today. Both were liberal, capitalist democracies, a emerging one in Germany’s case, but nonetheless. Both countries were of roughly equal size, population, and level of economic development. And they had a common defense interest against Soviet encroachment on Western Europe. On the other hand, Japan is a liberal, capitalist democracy with some characteristically traditional Japanese trappings, while China is a state-capitalist authoritarian regime with socialist trappings. China is much larger in both area and population, but still lagging behind severely in overall development. And instead of being in the same overall political camp, Japan is allied to a traditional rival of China, the U.S. Both countries, China and Japan had a much longer time to develop a working relationship. However, this long time has apparently not cooled any passions, especially not in China. I doubt China and Japan will be able to work out the issue in the spirit of mutually beneficial cooperation on their own and establish a new supranational authority to defuse tensions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is doubtful that it will be as easy as the post WWII rapprochement between West Germany and its Western neighbors.

That might be true, but its western neighbors are not all Germany has had to reconcile with. There are eastern neighbors, and then there are the Jewish people, largely represented by the state of Israel.

The German people and their government have opted for a formal, incontrovertible process, undertaken in a spirit of genuine remorse. The Germans would be entirely justified in claiming they too were made victims by the harsh penalties exacted on them by the Versailles Treaty, but they have wisely put that aside in the interest of pursuing peace. They have taken unambiguous responsibility for the actions of the Third Reich. It will take a very, very long time -- and continued demonstration of Germany's new leaf before all can forgive.

To put it in simplest terms, to seek atonement often means to swallow one's pride, on a national as well as individual level. I don't believe Japan ever truly reached that point with China and Korea. If a prime minister made such an expression, he was quickly undermined back home by powerful elements who resist Japan humbling itself before anyone.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

yabits,

it is nothing but a meme that the Chinese and others are attempting to establish to weaken public support for today's Japanese - who had nothing to do with events in the past - in the English speaking world in preparation for more aggressive moves by China in the future. That is what it is all about.

Let's call it the "Good Germany-Bad Japan" meme.

It serves the Chinese interests by trying to make today's Japan look worse than Nazi Germany.

It's ridiculous too when you look at the relative actions of the two nations since.

The White men in the Burma were the tools of racialist Imperialists. They were not innocents like the Asian civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan being killed today. Today we condemn all racially supremacist policies, and Imperialism, so why should we be sympathetic towards their armies? Beside, the Japanese soldiers also had walk the same walk, and carrying full kit.

I know a lot of Jewish people who would be very upset at the idea of "being represented by Israel", so I think you should withdraw that too. The Chinese have studied this area and are also playing with closely related historical issues and campaigns, modelling some of their efforts on those strategies used by the Holocaust Industry.

Again, China's exploitation of these memes is utterly cynical, exploitive and lacking in any moral integrity. And ultimately it will fail because their campaigns are too transparent and their own current social history too fraught with abuse and exploitation, and the flagrant abuse of human rights. They may have total control over their own media and groupthink through fear, but that does not extend beyond their own borders.

People should fooled ... the idea that China cares about human rights and moral issues is laughable. Tell that to the TIbetans, the Uyghurs, the Taiwanese, their political dissidents, their own women (having foetuses ripped out of them).

Then be glad you live in Japan.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

herrokitty Jun. 10, 2014 - 07:09AM JST it is nothing but a meme that the Chinese and others are attempting to establish to weaken public support for today's Japanese - who had nothing to do with events in the past . It serves the Chinese interests by trying to make today's Japan look worse than Nazi Germany.

Nothing to do with events in the past? Why do you see PM Abe and over 150 goverment representatives still visiting Yasukuni every year where 14 Class A is remembered? Don't you think this angers neighboring countries? Do you see this in Germany? Japan has never come to grips with its actions and has deliberately refused to face them. Germany, at least, went through such self examination after WWII, and indeed, repentance, that its Nazi past, though not erased, no longer strongly stains the nation of today. Indeed, Germans today have understood their special, historical obligation to face their past honestly. Japan is responsible for at least as many deaths as the Nazis. It's many years of atrocities: concentration camps, its bio-war experiments on Chinese civilians, its deliberate programs of starvation and murder of prisoners, the rapacious killings of conquered cities and their peoples. This and more all swept under the Japan's nationalist rug without even the barest pretense of acknowledgement that they ever occurred.

The basic Japanese attitude towards the war seems to be, “Ok, we are super-peace-loving and were reluctantly forced into war, but only because the U.S. bullied us, and we had really good intentions for the rest of Asia. A few bad things happened, but that’s what happens in war, and did you know that Japan suffered a lot, too and even got nuked, and Japan's attitude is that "we are victims too". We’re sorry we fought the war, but anyway most of those atrocities probably didn’t happen or were exaggerated anyway so were not really all that sorry.” Following the lead from their political masters, Japan's education bureaucrats began to censor history books for schoolchildren to prevent them learning the truth about Japan's military aggression between 1931 to 1945, and the many horrifying atrocities that were committed by Japanese during the course of that military aggression.

If Japanese school children are told anything at all about the Pacific War, it is usually in a false context where the U.S,, Britain and the Netherlands are dishonestly accused of "forcing" Japan to wage a defensive war to obtain supplies of oil and rubber. The schoolchildren are not told in official history textbooks that oil and rubber were withheld from Japan in an effort to persuade Japan to halt its brutal and unprovoked war against China. The children are not permitted to learn in their history books about the slaughter of millions of prisoners of war and captive civilians by the Japanese military. In addition to the hundreds of thousands of captive foreign women who were forced to become sexual slaves in Japanese Army brothels across East Asia and the Pacific region. At times the falsifications and distortions of history in Japanese school textbooks have become sufficiently outrageous to produce a storm of international protest. In 1982, on the 50th anniversary of Japan's forcible seizure and annexation of China's Manchurian region, the Ministry of Education ordered amendments to school history books in reference to Class-A war criminals interred at the shrine. No wonder relations with neighboring countries does not improve.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

it is nothing but a meme that the Chinese and others are attempting to establish to weaken public support for today's Japanese - who had nothing to do with events in the past - in the English speaking world in preparation for more aggressive moves by China in the future. That is what it is all about.

A Japan that has not properly or effectively come to take complete responsibility for its past will end up weakening its own support. The farther that Japan projects its own military with the excuse that it is standing up to Chinese "aggression" risks weakening support. Just as today's Germans and today's Germany is continuing to walk in accordance with their contrition for the past, they show up today's Japanese in a less-than-favorable light.

Let's call it the "Good Germany-Bad Japan" meme.

No. It is the "Contrite and responsible Germany vs. the lack of contrition and taking responsibility by Japan. It is only a meme as long as Japan refuses to follow Germany's example.

It serves the Chinese interests by trying to make today's Japan look worse than Nazi Germany.

China is doing no such thing. It does not serve Japan's interests to refuse to take responsibility in the way that its former Axis partner has. Japan is making itself look worse. It is actually the right-wing revisionists in Japan who are serving the interests of those in China who might welcome aggression. Birds of a feather. I hope you are not too blind to see that.

the idea that China cares about human rights and moral issues is laughable.

It's irrelevant to this discussion. At least China can admit recognizing Germany's progress in taking responsibility for its war crimes of the past, and how the German attitude is helping repair the relations with its neighbors. The idea of a reunified Germany would have frightened many a few decades before it took place. The German kids are not taught a warped view of history the way the Japanese kids are taught, so Germany today is much better equipped to act responsibly.

Only among Germany's far right lunatic fringe -- who are kept on a very tight leash by German law -- would we read of the kind of paranoid bellicosity that we find all too common among the Japanese revisionists who post here.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

On this topic, there are only to things need to discuss, one is appologize and one is to forgive. So as upper so many discussion, this means a lot of people want the apologize and wont to forgive the fake appologize. and others are want to do the fake appologize and can't get the forgiving.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But Yabits, Japan has properly or effectively come to take complete responsibility for its past.

The idea that it has not is the caustic meme these individuals are spreading - and you are spreading either wilfully or indiscriminating. I don't which, it's up to you to be honest? It is deliberate, a mistake, or to support your own bias?

This condition is exaggerated by most of the activists employed to spread it being both too young to know and remember when Japan did - whether it was in the 60s or the 90s - or living in too narrowly State controlled milieus where freedom of information is restricted.

For example, in South Korea where the government did not own up to taking Japanese compensation from its citizens until the early 2000s. China is far worse, far more dictatorial, and far more culturally inclined to both mass hysteria and exaggeration. And North Korea is off the register of acceptable normalcy.

Japan cannot be expected to compensation every generation that comes along and demands it, which is precisely what is happening now in China and South Korea with descendants - grandchildren - making claims for losses.

Perhaps Japan needs to demand concrete memorials of all its apologies to be placed next to the statutes to war time prostitutes that Koreans activists are erecting all over the world?

It is amazing how many people have been suckered into believe Japan has not apologized and compensated by these people and are fooled by the real intentions behind these campaigns.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Whining about China's problems does little to mitigate the fact that Germany and Japan have taken two very different paths in dealing with their histories regarding WWII war atrocities. Japan has a lot to learn from Germany.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

You see ... what a perfect example of a habitual anti-Japan propagandist repeating the meme.

Japan has nothing to learn. The matters have been resolve. It's time for Koreans to move on. No more free money from Japan. No Japan as a eternal contributor to its economy - which is all it is about for them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

herrokitty Jun. 10, 2014 - 11:30PM JST But Yabits, Japan has properly or effectively come to take complete responsibility for its past.

Then the question is why the Yasukuni shrine has to memorialize 14 Japanese who managed to make the list of Class A war criminals, including Tojo? And why should the shrine also honor the memories of hundreds of others who were also adjudged war criminals? A difficult question that many Japanese would rather not address. Abe and many of his top goverment officials Yasukuni shrine visit is a reminder not only of the millions who died fighting for Japan but of those who would die in renewed conflict.

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As a reader (and independent thinker) I always start by questioning the veracity of the Communists in China. From what I can see, the Germans themselves are not too happy with the CCP's propaganda, whether it puts them in a good light or not: http://thediplomat.com/2014/03/germany-rebukes-chinas-anti-japan-pr-campaign/

For those who won't click:

Ambassador Clauss also emphasized that reconciliation in Europe was facilitated by the establishment of rule of law >across the region, which allowed countries to settle disputes through mechanisms like the European Court of Justice. >China strongly opposes the use of international arbitration to settle its myriad ongoing territorial disputes with its >neighbors, and instead insists that all disputes be handled bilaterally, where China’s clout is greater.

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Japan has properly or effectively come to take complete responsibility for its past.

I do not know of any nation besides Japan that believes that Japan has taken complete responsibility. Germany has done far better by comparison and is still walking that path. With Japan, it has been two steps forward, one step back, four steps sideways...

Japan cannot be expected to compensation every generation that comes along and demands it, which is precisely what is happening now in China and South Korea with descendants - grandchildren - making claims for losses.

The key step the Germans made was to work with the parties as well as having international supervision. The first step, however, is that the Germans announced they wanted to do this in order to begin the process of reconciliation. This is actually a fairly recent step. Prior German leaders apologized and there was some compensation paid, but the Germans are genuinely interested in reconciliation, and worries about more compensation were not high on their list.

In basic terms, Germans don't express active hatred or disdain for their neighbors. Even though some of them, like the Greeks, get into some very nasty anti-German rhetoric, the Germans have been calm and patient through it all. I am actually pro-Japan, and would like it to be seen as a leader in this area, along with the Germans. A nation that other countries can point to with pride, and use as an example.

@LeChatteBotte -- GREAT article with great insights. I'm delighted to read the Germans won't allow themselves to be dragged in the middle by China. China, however, has now made one public comment on what it believes a proper response (Germany's) looks like, Germany is correct to remind China that it also takes a party wiling to accept the apology and move forward.

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I do not know of any nation besides Japan that believes that Japan has taken complete responsibility. Germany has done far better by comparison and is still walking that path. With Japan, it has been two steps forward, one step back, four steps sideways...

Pretty much every U.N. member except South Korea and China after the 1990's. What those two are seeking are apology and compensation okawari (seconds)

If one actually researched Japan's post war agreements and bilateral treaties, they pretty much finished those payments by the time Germany was allowed to enter as a member of U.N. And let us not forget that Germany's compensation are almost exclusively to the Holocaust victims and pretty much none to the damages caused by military agressions to the states she invaded. And of course, unlike Japan, Germany wasn't subjected to a treaty clause where they (nation and her peoples) had to relinquish ALL ASSETS left in other countries.

Germans are genuinely interested in reconciliation, and worries about more compensation were not high on their list.

So what was the ICJ suit in 2008 about?

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Pretty much every U.N. member except South Korea and China after the 1990's

Wrong. Completely wrong. It is fairly common knowledge among most people that the Japanese do not teach their children the truth about the war. This one point goes a long, long way. Details of what is put in Japanese textbooks and what has been taken out are a key topic at least once a year in the media of my country. Others who know my connection with Japan, and how often I visit, will ask me if the stories are true. Thanks to the revisionists, I have to report to them that the concerns are entirely justified, and the stories are completely accurate. I take pains to tell them about the revisionists, and their growing power and influence in today's Japan.

And now Germany's example leaves Japan far behind in the dust by comparison.

In America, there is a lingering suspicion of the Japanese government as not sincere and trustworthy. The impression is of a party who will put up a front and leave their real feelings a secret. So you can list all of the apologies and money paid, and many folks will rightfully point to the inconsistent behavior of honoring war criminals, expunging details from history books, and the myriad examples of words disparaging to their neighbors. The government's treatment of citizens in cases like Minamata and Fukushima only serve to bolster the impression.

So what was the ICJ suit in 2008 about?

The only suit I am aware of is one against the claims by Italians, who were an ally of Germany. I am not sure what your point is. Mine was that Germany obviously made concerns about additional compensation secondary to reconciliation in recent years. It doesn't mean they will accept all claims without reserving the right to appeal if something seems improper.

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Why do you think families of 20,000,000 people that were victimized refuse to understand Shinto belief that pray for 14 class A and thousands of war criminals?

It is also the growing perception, as the meaning of Yasukuni is becoming clearer in the West, that it is a place that in significant ways, for some who claim Shinto, glorifies war and the warrior. A nation that repents of war will look upon its military cemeteries as signs of past failure -- with a resolve to never repeat the mistakes. This is not the attitude of Japan's revisionists. More than any other source, they are the reason for China being able to make a valid point in this matter.

The books in question were never widely used. Children are taught adequately according to their ages.

My Japanese friends and relatives resoundingly disagree. China and Korea are rightfully concerned about a Japan returning to its past mistakes.

America has it's own issues with patriotism and nationalism....

And that is why we need a Germany to set the example. They are leading the way. Japan and America are likely only going to create a whole new generation of victims. I am hoping that Japan will follow Germany's course. I have hope for China because it genuinely wants to become a great nation, in the eyes of the world, and they sense what that requires. The Japanese revisionists appear to believe that a Japan that is more like Japan of the past will be great.

Fools.

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Wrong. Completely wrong. It is fairly common knowledge among most people that the Japanese do not teach their children the truth about the war. This one point goes a long, long way. Details of what is put in Japanese textbooks and what has been taken out are a key topic at least once a year in the media of my country. Others who know my connection with Japan, and how often I visit, will ask me if the stories are true. Thanks to the revisionists, I have to report to them that the concerns are entirely justified, and the stories are completely accurate. I take pains to tell them about the revisionists, and their growing power and influence in today's Japan.

Fairly common knowledge? I don't think so. You are simply regurgitating the repeated fallacy echoed by the opposition (Korea, China) who are guilty of exaggerating the events to suit their political agenda. There is a reason why these opposition has only one government issued textbook. Hence, just because the textbooks (as in plural) in Japan don't coincide with the events described by the opposition does not mean the former is "not teach their children about the war"

In America, there is a lingering suspicion of the Japanese government as not sincere and trustworthy. The impression is of a party who will put up a front and leave their real feelings a secret. So you can list all of the apologies and money paid, and many folks will rightfully point to the inconsistent behavior of honoring war criminals, expunging details from history books, and the myriad examples of words disparaging to their neighbors. The government's treatment of citizens in cases like Minamata and Fukushima only serve to bolster the impression.

Your first paragraph is in essence a joke for U.S. is the first to welcome Japan's increasing role in security which was subsequently echoed by other SE Asian nations. If you want to discuss "common knowledge", this is where you start and perhaps question the absurdity of both Korea and China who keep this past issue alive.

The only suit I am aware of is one against the claims by Italians, who were an ally of Germany. I am not sure what your point is. Mine was that Germany obviously made concerns about additional compensation secondary to reconciliation in recent years. It doesn't mean they will accept all claims without reserving the right to appeal if something seems improper.

That wasn't your point at all. You claimed "worries about more compensation were not high on their list." when in fact it is hence the suit brought forth by Germany. Between states, reconcilliation comes in a form of treaties and being subsequently accepted by an international organ in U.N. as a result of those efforts. Japan in 1956. (it would have been 1952 if not for Soviet's single opposition). Germany in 1973.

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You are simply regurgitating the repeated fallacy echoed by the opposition (Korea, China) who are guilty of exaggerating the events to suit their political agenda

Sorry, I have intimate family ties to Japan, including a public school teacher in the mix. It's an issue I have some direct experience with. When examined, the type of "exaggeration" that takes place is the Chinese stating that 80,000 civilians were slaughtered when only 65,000 can be proven. A woman who claims 40 troops raped her is exaggerating when only 30 did. Exaggeration might affect the degree of the crimes to an extent, but not their nature.

Your first paragraph is in essence a joke for U.S. is the first to welcome Japan's increasing role in security which was subsequently echoed by other SE Asian nations.

There are increasing warnings about a the convergence between a militarily assertive Japan and its historical revisionists. The western nations also welcomed Japan's military role in WWI. The danger comes in the effort by some to mythologize the past while sidestepping or downplaying its atrocities.

You claimed "worries about more compensation were not high on their list." when in fact it is hence the suit brought forth by Germany.

Yes, in 2008, against Italy. One example. Meanwhile the actions taken via the Foundation for Remembrance, Responsibility and Future vastly eclipse the 2008 action by multiples. If it will genuinely help the foundation's goals, one of them being compensation, the Germans will continue to fund it as they have.

Between states, reconcilliation comes in a form of treaties

I disagree. It is just the opposite. Reconciliation comes out of a genuine feeling of trust and goodwill. A treaty is just a piece of paper, which might just represent an uneasy and temporary rapprochement. The value of that piece of paper increases proportionally to the trust and goodwill that underlies it, but the paper does little to foster it, especially if one or both parties don't live up to its terms, and have no intention of doing so.

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Sorry, I have intimate family ties to Japan

Irrelevant.

There are increasing warnings about a the convergence between a militarily assertive Japan and its historical revisionists. The western nations also welcomed Japan's military role in WWI. The danger comes in the effort by some to mythologize the past while sidestepping or downplaying its atrocities.

Not convinced since Japan recent history shows a polar opposite which is another reason why they are welcomed to join as a growing global security participant.

Yes, in 2008, against Italy. One example. Meanwhile the actions taken via the Foundation for Remembrance, Responsibility and Future vastly eclipse the 2008 action by multiples. If it will genuinely help the foundation's goals, one of them being compensation, the Germans will continue to fund it as they have.

Not one example. Germany has yet to issue an apology to the states she invaded or the compensation for the damages on a state level. This is what happens when you lack these bilateral treaties.

I disagree. It is just the opposite. Reconciliation comes out of a genuine feeling of trust and goodwill. A treaty is just a piece of paper, which might just represent an uneasy and temporary rapprochement. The value of that piece of paper increases proportionally to the trust and goodwill that underlies it, but the paper does little to foster it, especially if one or both parties don't live up to its terms, and have no intention of doing so.

I disagree. Without the genuine feeling of trust and goodwill by the governments, such treaty will never take place. Unfortunately, the prior Chinese and Korean counterparts at that time had them but was lost in subsequent leadership, hence the rather absurd and overplayed apology and compensation okawari.

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Not convinced since Japan recent history shows a polar opposite which is another reason why they are welcomed

I would not be so sure about that welcome. Japan's recent history is mixed. It's inability to achieve genuine rapprochement with its neighbors will serve to mute that "welcome" over time, and justifiably so.

Germany has yet to issue an apology to the states she invaded

Germany has issued many apologies. All consistent, in stark contrast with Japan, as shown below. As one of Polish heritage, all Poles remember 1970, when Chancellor Willie Brandt went down on his knees in Warsaw out of contrition for the crimes of the Germans in WWII. The most important thing, as Jennifer Lind writes in her important article in Foreign Affairs on the differences between Japan and Germany, is that no German politician or government official undermined the actions of any German leader who showed official acts of remorse. Such is NOT the case with Japan, Lind writes, which makes Japan's apologies, such as they are, all the more perilous.

Without the genuine feeling of trust and goodwill by the governments, such treaty will never take place.

As Lind writes: "As Japanese leaders began expressing remorse for the country's past, however, other politicians and some intellectuals decried the trend. Nakasone's conciliation during the textbook controversy in the 1980s prompted the education minister, Masayuki Fujio, to say that Korea bore responsibility for its 1910 annexation by Japan. In 1988, another cabinet member, Seisuke Okuno, defended Japanese imperialism as "Asian liberation," declaring that "Caucasians" had been the real aggressors in Asia. Murayama's apologies in 1994 and 1995 caused conservatives -- even those within his own cabinet -- to defend Japan's past policies. When liberal parliamentarians proposed a landmark national apology in the form of a Diet resolution, prominent conservatives denied, justified, and sometimes even glorified Japan's past violence." Such two-faced undermining has never occurred in Germany.

Lind also details many of the differences in how young Germans and young Japanese are educated about the war.

I am afraid that not much that Japan or its neighbors put on paper at this point can be trusted. You seem to believe that treaties take place in a spirit of trust and goodwill. I beg to differ, and history is awash with treaties that weren't worth the paper they were printed on. It appears that many who think like you just don't understand the situation. Or, more accurately: You can't see the forest, while believing that detailed knowledge of a few trees is sufficient. It is serious myopia and wishful thinking.

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Be that as it may, China has no business lecturing anybody about atrocities and apologies.

After CCP gets out of Tibet and apologizes to the Tibetans, gets out of the Paracels and apologizes to the Vietnames, gets out of the Spratlys and apologizes to the Philippines, acknowledges the existance of Taiwan, stops supporting Kim Yong Un... my fingers are getting tired so I will stop.

Anyway, the dictators in Peking are not the people to lecture anyone. They are about as qualified for the job of moral judges as the fat little dictator in PyongYang who they are financing.

Leave Germany out of Chinese propaganda already.

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After CCP gets out of Tibet and apologizes to the Tibetans

And., thanks to China's remarks, the standard for China's eventual apology to Tibet have been established.

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I would not be so sure about that welcome. Japan's recent history is mixed. It's inability to achieve genuine rapprochement with its neighbors will serve to mute that "welcome" over time, and justifiably so.

Again, this goes back to the absurdity of both Korea and China which is the heart of the issue. The recent governments of both are not interested in reconciliation which is proven time and time again.

Germany has issued many apologies. All consistent, in stark contrast with Japan, as shown below. As one of Polish heritage, all Poles remember 1970, when Chancellor Willie Brandt went down on his knees in Warsaw out of contrition for the crimes of the Germans in WWII. The most important thing, as Jennifer Lind writes in her important article in Foreign Affairs on the differences between Japan and Germany, is that no German politician or government official undermined the actions of any German leader who showed official acts of remorse. Such is NOT the case with Japan, Lind writes, which makes Japan's apologies, such as they are, all the more perilous.

Sigh. Using the Brandt knee down which first of all is relegated strictly to the Holocaust victims and not the nations Germany pillaged. Secondly, though this made the cover of a magazine, it did very little for the victimized groups and state governments to seek compensation hence the various lawsuits within the states. The only difference between Germany and Japan is the neighbors themselves for the Europeans have a long history "conquer or be conquered" as evidenced by the changing borders throughout centuries. In other words, atonement between the states have never been a requirement.

I am afraid that not much that Japan or its neighbors put on paper at this point can be trusted. You seem to believe that treaties take place in a spirit of trust and goodwill. I beg to differ, and history is awash with treaties that weren't worth the paper they were printed on. It appears that many who think like you just don't understand the situation. Or, more accurately: You can't see the forest, while believing that detailed knowledge of a few trees is sufficient. It is serious myopia and wishful thinking.

No sir. You basically showed that both Korea and China treat "treaties that weren't worth the paper they were printed on" which is why this absurdity is taking place and hence, both are far from being an advanced nation. There is a reason why you don't see Japanese government filing lawsuits for damages caused by atomic bombings or her nationals seeking retrieval of assets left because they abide by the treaty that was signed which ultimately results in Japanese government taking care of their own citizens, a simple concept that Korea and China cannot fathom which is a reason why they are considered what they are. There is a reason why most advanced nations consider bilateral treaties with supremacy clause. There is a reason why Japan was able to move on and become an advanced nation despite being ruined to ashes all while giving handouts to the "beggers" (i.e. aka "Japan's neighbors")

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More cynical exploitation of the "Good Germany-Bad Japan" meme ... try doing a search for racism, racist murders and neo-nazidom in Germany etc, etc, et

You may choose to call it that if you want to, but that's a distortion. With regards to making rapprochement with neighbors, it is "Progressing Germany vs. Stuck Japan." (Or Big Germany and small Japan.) None of the things you suggested searching on remotely relates to the government of Germany, or the vast majority of German people. I have a keen personal interest in this since I have extended family living in that region where my ancestors immigrated from, and many who stayed behind and perished at the hands of the Germans.

One of the problems with all that foreigners attitudes are created purely through very brief English language translations...

Right, Japan is pure as the driven snow. If facts seem to indicate otherwise, the purity must have become lost in translation. However, I was personally witness to an event that, for me, epitomized an undercurrent in the Japanese mindset that is every bit as malevolent as what was described of the far-right fringe in Germany. In some respects, the Japanese example is worse. I ask the moderators to forbear, as I will try to keep the example to the point, but the overall event contains an example of an apology.

In mid-2001, a native Japanese and I were listening (by radio) to a Japanese discussion show with a "panel of experts" in a town hall format. The topic was the February incident in which a US sub collided with the Ehime Maru. It was about midway through the discussion when one of the panel offered his opinion as to what was behind the event, and I am paraphrasing, but not exaggerating: "The submarine got the Japanese ship in its sights, saw that it was Japanese, and purposely rammed it as payback for Pearl Harbor." I couldn't believe that I was hearing it correctly, but my partner reconfirmed it. The thing that I most remember was that not a single person on the panel or in the audience made as much as a whimper to challenge that statement. It didn't register to them as anything different from the previous remarks that had been made. For that brief moment, there was not a shred of human decency in that entire room. No grotesque distortion like that would have ever gone unchallenged in a public forum by modern Germans. And therein lies the difference.

And that may be it. For those moments I was able to witness an aspect of Japan that startled, shocked and deeply saddened me. Perhaps the Chinese and Koreans have witnessed that kind of repulsiveness too. Perhaps the Japanese are not aware of just how repulsive it is. The implication that no (superior) Japanese would ever do something as heinous as ramming his vessel into another to cause death and destruction, but such was not beyond the inferior and hate-filled American naval officer of 2001. (Perhaps this mental concoction was an example of projection on the part of the panelist.)

So, please spare the "you don't understand Shinto," or "poor Japanese translations...." drivel. Germany has been able to recognize much of the ugliness inside of itself, and did NOT let itself off the hook through the rationalization that it was all the Nazis and the rest of the volk were just hapless victims and young virgins. Germany has changed and is still changing, and its neighbors are witness to it. We've all got ugliness inside ourselves, and the Japanese revisionists seem to expend a lot of effort pretending there isn't some serious ugliness inside Japan. They aren't fooling anyone. The world is not as dumb as they presume it be, and certainly China is not.

In the West, we talk about the "bigger man." The one who is strong enough to take some licks and still seek out peace without stooping to the level of his opponents. The one who seeks to remove the beam in his own eye before complaining about the specks in his neighbors' In Europe, Germany has proven the bigger man. In Asia, Japan should be, but my bet is on China to take a significant great leap forward in that area. Some can see the manner in which Germany is great, and that is a very good sign.

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