politics

China warns foreign military planes entering defense zone

30 Comments
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN

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30 Comments
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I think I hear the B-52's fueling up down in Guam...

7 ( +7 / -1 )

This is a form of intentional escalation.

Biden asked the Chinese to not enforce the zone. China did not say no, nor did they say yes. So it was left in an unspoken understanding of the type: "we'll see, if you take care of me I'll take care of you" situation.

Clearly China now thinks US has not done enough to pressure Japan. They consider Abe's recent portrail of China as the Kasier's Germany to be evidence of that.

-3 ( +4 / -6 )

China has tested her 'Hypersonic missile vehicle' on 9th January 2014, there is no worries about her nuclear retailiation will goes ineffective by the US NMD interceptions. China's annoucement was backed by actions not just 'talk soups'!

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Please China do something stupid so you can be shut down as you should be.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Are they playing in to the hands of a giant fly trap?

Or are they holding jokers up their sleeves?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

How to have peace, at least for another twenty years:

China needs to stop pushing the envelope with its ships and planes, and Japan needs to lay off the war talk.

At Yasukuni, the spirits of the war criminals, as well as any remains, if they exist, should be moved to another location using the appropriate Shinto ceremony. This will allow shrine visits by politicians to Yasukuni shrine, since all countries have places for their war dead. China and Korea should accept this as a move forward.

In the Senkakus, Japan should continue to administer the islands, but all claims of sovereignty on both sides should be shelved, officially. Neither side can establish sovereignty without war, and war is something that should be avoided.

Both sides should, in every way, be more considerate of the other.

REALLY, nobody would like the result of a war, and the result of improved business ties would look a lot better.

2 ( +6 / -3 )

" “The Japanese leader, while paying lip-service to a positive peace policy, is effectively adopting a policy of military expansion and preparation for war,” ministry spokesman Qin Gang said Friday."

Are employees of the Chinese Foreign Ministry permitted to read any news that doesn't emanate from China?

3 ( +9 / -5 )

My worry is that the Chinese by trying to enforce the new air defense zone could result in an unfortunate tragedy as there is a risk of an accidental shootdown of a commercial airliner flying at night between Taiwan and the Japanese home islands.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Send in F22's and F35's, lets see what the commies do

10 ( +11 / -1 )

oh China again......... what next !!!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Chinese state media quoted air force spokesman Shen Jinke as saying several kinds of Chinese planes recently patrolled the sweeping zone that was declared in November. He said the planes identified several foreign military aircraft, flew alongside them and issued them warnings. He didn’t identify the planes or say when the patrol was conducted.

Several kinds of Chinese planes? Don't they mean several kinds of Russian planes operated by the Chinese Air Force? His lack of forthcoming about the identity and nature of both the "foreign miliatry aircraft" and the occurences of the patrols is suspicious. No-one seems to know whose planes were being monitored. Are China sure they weren't just shadowing themselves?

The zone is a “purely defensive measure that conforms to international practice,” Shen said.

No it doesn't. It was a unilaterally declared ADIZ that overlaps South Korean and Taiwan airspace.

“The Japanese leader, while paying lip-service to a positive peace policy, is effectively adopting a policy of military expansion and preparation for war,”

Like China isn't? China's policy of military expansion and territorial expansion is well known, and the source of much concern in the region. As for Japan's preparation for war: Yes, they are preparing. Preparing to defend themselves and their territory from China. That's all.

“I don’t understand what China means by voice-warning,” Suga said. Japan’s defense ministry has not reported any “abnormal flights” by Chinese military jets since Beijing declared its air zone, he said.

Yet more reason to suspect that China is spewing hot air from its backside. Nothing out of the ordinary for China's military jets? Not what you would expect if they're supposed to be patrolling their ADIZ and intercepting foreign military aircraft.

China has rejected all such criticisms, and a government-backed scholar said a significant sector of the public believes Beijing hasn’t gone far enough in challenging Tokyo and the U.S.

This sentence alone shows why said scholar's opinions should be immediately ignored. They're government-backed. In other words, they are just another poor brainwashed fool spewing propaganda on the PRC's behalf.

“Japan has its own air defense zone, so why shouldn’t China?

Africa has a Malaria pandemic. Should China have that as well? The logic here is that of a spoiled child. "But that boy has an [insert games console name here], why can't I?" The problem that Japan, and indeed the rest of the Pacific region has is not that China has an ADIZ, rather that they declared one unilaterally, having it overlap the airspace of South Korea and Taiwan, and by making ridiculous demands as to the rules that foreign aircraft must conform to, which is outside of international practice.

I don't think I've ever seen China making a bigger idiot of itself. Well, perhaps comparing Japan to Voldemort. But if I (a 23 year old Brit with average intelligence) can spot this many problems with what China is saying, and explaining with some coherence why China is wrong to say these things, then other world leaders must know this as well. Even George Bush, the butt of many a joke, must be smart enough to draw the same conclusions (before you start saying it, I'm well aware that Bush is no longer US President. I'm using him because, as I have already mentioned, he is the butt of many a joke. Said jokes usually inferring that he has less intelligence than a cabbage). So, China, are you ready to concede defeat? If you can be made to look this foolish by me (someone who specializes in looking foolish), then you are doing a great many things wrong, and desperately need to raise the white flag.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@stalingrad "China has tested her 'Hypersonic missile vehicle' on 9th January 2014, there is no worries about her nuclear retailiation will goes ineffective by the US NMD interceptions. China's annoucement was backed by actions not just 'talk soups'!" WOW HE US IS AFRAID! Like I said many times What is made in China doesn't work at all! IT make it to break it They can test all they want the question is does it workl Bring it on! I know what I am talking about I walk the walk and see it everyday with my OWN EYEs so bring it on because it would be game over for CHINA!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

FarmboyJan. 25, 2014 - 08:57AM JST How to have peace, at least for another twenty years: 2.At Yasukuni, the spirits of the war criminals, as well as any remains, if they exist, should be moved to another >location using the appropriate Shinto ceremony. This will allow shrine visits by politicians to Yasukuni shrine, since all >countries have places for their war dead. China and Korea should accept this as a move forward.

First question-Why do you think that your solution would have any effect on China and South Korea's position? Both nations completely deny the existence of their respective Peace Treaties they signed with Japan in 1965 and 1972 respectively. How can such countries be trusted to "accept" your suggestion and put the matter to rest? Second question- When has there ever been a case where a country that is peaceful and not at war with anyone allows other nations to dictate what their politicians do or don't do in their own country or what a religious location does or doesn't do? Especially when no one is getting hurt or injured and no damage to property is occurring as a result of of the religious place or the visits? As far as removing he names I am not certain that even the Japanese government has the jurisdiction required to remove those names, much less a foreign government. Additionally, if the names were removed, by the precedent it would set, would it not allow other nations to dictate other matters which really have nothing to do with them.

0 ( +5 / -4 )

The ADIZ is just not enough for protecting China's ecurity, they should doing alot more to concern Japanese nuclear ambitious, Abe is a very dangerous man who talked war in world stage! He has his stakes of kicking out a castastropic conflict in asia! There is a nuclear reprocessing plant in the village of Rokkasho in the prefecture of Aomori at the northern tip of Honshu, Japan's largest island. Capable of putting out 9 tons of weapons-grade plutonium and 800 tons of uranium a year, it is due to complete active tests — the last stage before it starts commercial operation. Once at full capacity, the plant will be able to provide enough plutonium for 2,000 nuclear weapons.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Let the Games BEGIN. Well, I've been meaning to move back to Okinawa anyway, so it looks as though NOW is as good a time as any. See you on Sunset Beach, or Sunabe Sea Wall SOON.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ndwariga

Send in F22's and F35's, lets see what the commies do

Commies will do nothing, won't even see either of those planes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

First question-Why do you think that your solution would have any effect on China and South Korea's position?

I'm not sure it would. It's only a hope that it would be received positively, but I think it's worth doing anyway. A lot of Japanese people dislike having war criminals sharing the same shrine as the other war dead, and doing this would be well received by many internally, if not externally.

Second question- When has there ever been a case where a country that is peaceful and not at war with anyone allows other nations to dictate what their politicians do or don't do in their own country or what a religious location does or doesn't do?

There has been a long tradition of not going to Yasukuni, observed by Japanese politicians until fairly recently, with Prime Minister Koizumi. The new custom is not supported by all Japanese people in Japan. I think removing the criminals would be seen as restoring Yasukuni, not as bending to the enemy.

Additionally, if the names were removed, by the precedent it would set, would it not allow other nations to dictate other matters which really have nothing to do with them.

I see this as a way to re-embrace a correct path, and I think a lot of Japanese would agree. If it has the beneficial effect of improving relations with Korea or China, I don't think that it would be a reason to reject it.

1 ( +3 / -3 )

There has been a long tradition of not going to Yasukuni, observed by Japanese politicians until fairly recently, with Prime Minister Koizumi. The new custom is not supported by all Japanese people in Japan. I think removing the criminals would be seen as restoring Yasukuni, not as bending to the enemy.

1945-1985, total of 57 visits by the Prime ministers. It"s merely getting back to the "old" custom me thinks.

There is no such thing is "removal" for if one decides to build another shrine specifically for the so-called war criminals, you have basically two shrines that houses the spirits of them.

< http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%88%86%E9%9C%8A>

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Kaimycahl: do u really think everything made in china doesn't work at all. Better u test it first, like nuke, missle, etc. Then u have right in hell to announce sth.

Stalingrand2014: tough guy, let's try the nukes u mentioned, and see what happens. Guarantee u will find Japan islands anymore while maybe some parts of china being destroyed. Likely Japan would be striked before doing anything. Try it!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Nigelboy,

The thing is, I do think China is out of line, and pushing back might feel good, but this isn't a game. A war would be tragic, and both sides need to try giving a little before this reaches a point of no return. My position is that war would be bad for both countries, and if both countries were to bend just a little, they could start having peaceful relations again. The posturing taking place on both sides isn't positive.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Farmboy

@nigelboy ... 1945-1985, total of 57 visits by the Prime ministers. It"s merely getting back to the "old" custom me thinks.

I believe Farmboy meant Koizumi was the first visit after the enshrinement of Hideki Tojo and friends in 1978, and by "moved to another location using the appropriate Shinto ceremony" he meant getting back to the "old" custom.

Notably, neither Emperor Hirohito not Emperor Akihito have visited since that time in 1978. We know that Hirohito did not visit because he did not approve of the enshrinement: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/21/world/asia/21japan.html

Incidentally, I beleieve China has already stated they would not accept visits to Yasukuni even if the 1978 change was "undone". China's reasoning seems no longer connected to nuturing a peace with Japan: Prime Minister Noda, who had sworn never to visit Yasukuni, was accused of being a "liar" after he nationalized the Senaku islands to keep them out of Ishihara's hands. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/world/asia/china-accuses-japan-of-stealing-disputed-islands.html

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One of these days, a Chinese plane is going to lock its radar on a US plane. Unlike Japanese planes, US planes aren't going to be restrained by Article 9 when they respond to said action.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The Western most island of Japan with Japan-ASDF RADAR systems is Miyako-Jima Islands which is about 350-km east of Taiwan.

Now Japan will put new RADAR facilities to Yonaguni Island, the western most part of Japan which is just 105-km east of Taiwan shore. Yonaguni is also 155km south of SENKAKU Islands.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/With-China-in-mind-Japan-defense-focus-heads-south

Current Japan RADAR Network:

http://jsw.newpacificinstitute.org/?p=4011

The most modern 3D Japan Radar:

http://jsw.newpacificinstitute.org/?p=3745

Next year or in 2016, Japan will already mass-produce ASM-3 Hypersonic Anti-ship missile:

http://all-about-military.blogspot.jp/2010/01/japans-asm-3-supersonic-anti-ship.html

1 ( +1 / -0 )

FarmboyJan. 25, 2014 - 08:57AM JST 2.At Yasukuni, the spirits of the war criminals, as well as any remains, if they exist, should be moved to another location using the appropriate Shinto ceremony. This will allow shrine visits by politicians to Yasukuni shrine, since all countries have places for their war dead. China and Korea should accept this as a move forward.

Farmboy, your idea is smart and understandable, I think to the most of people of Japan. Your idea is able to make it of segregation between enshrining a war dead person as the State Authorized War Dead (SAWD) and as the Religion (Shinto) Authorized War Dead(RAWD). I believe that the people of Japan have sincerely and undoubtly accepted the judgement of Tokyo Tribunal to WWII. They also respect it in following the international way how to treat the dead war criminals. Every country, as you know, has its own religious way to treat a person- in-dead under judged as criminal. The Japanese society is inherently polytheism. So, they have a cultural tradition of Aminism which takes every spirit, either of good one, and even of bad one taken by enshrining as gods or spirits. The former idea may be easy for you to make a sense and the latter one be a little hard, but it is our firm and deep desire of halting its wake-up and not coming- back to our world again. For an example, famed Kanda Myojin Shrine, of Tokyo is enshrining General, Masakado- Taira, who was a war-criminal in 10th century in Japan. I ask you to understand it as this is the way of religious transaction in Japan. I know this is quite different idea from unitheism, like Christianity and others, where evil spirit is to be denied and ousted parmanently from this world. I am sorry that I have no knowledge how Chinese and Korean society have their ways with respect to the like case. The Yasukuni dispute is definitely no more than the domestic problem. This is out of diplomatic card to make hostility.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China is illegal.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Farmboy, I share in your hopes that we will never see a war in our lifetime. And I appreciate that your view that "removing the Class-A War Criminals" "MAY" put the matter to rest as far as China and South Korea are concerned. I sincerely doubt that it would. Honestly I doubt very much it would. In 1972 China accepted Japan's apology and established good relations by signing the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship, which was reaffirmed in 1978. The Class-A War Criminals were enshrined in August of 1978. Since then there were 21 visits to Yasukuni by several Japanese PMs all of which raised not a word from China. It was not until Nakasone's 8th or 10th visit in 1985 that China made a complaint. As we all know China uses anti-Japan sentiment as a political and diplomatic tool, as well as a means of social order through forced "Patrotic Education" which is effectively anti-Japan education. Anti-Japan sentiment has become such a part of China's official diplomatic stance that I do not see making any changes to the shrine will have any positive effect. Just as China denies Japan's apologies as "insincere", they will easily reduce any change to the shrine as also "insincere".

1 ( +4 / -2 )

China will not enforce air defense zone because they are not able to positively identity aircraft flying through this zone and to avoid mistakenly hitting American plane they will not target anything passing though for their own safety.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

First-off, Abe, do it right this time and not visit some idiotic war shrine and piss off South Korea, who you might be able to sway towards your side in this matter.

From here out, let China be the aggressors, yeah?

When it comes to politics, Abe visiting the shrine was the most idiotic of all moves in the history of humankind. I mean you could look at the entire history of Africa and the award would still go to Abe.

Until now. Thank you China for declaring what is rightfully yours. You are are the weakest link. How long until the rest of the world says, “Goodbye”?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The thing is, I do think China is out of line, and pushing back might feel good, but this isn't a game. A war would be tragic, and both sides need to try giving a little before this reaches a point of no return. My position is that war would be bad for both countries, and if both countries were to bend just a little, they could start having peaceful relations again. The posturing taking place on both sides isn't positive.

Farmboy,

I don't think it's pushing back at all. The "bending" has been done almost exclusively by the Japanese counterparts for decades and almost every time, the Chinese counterparts push the envelope. Yasukuni example is one. The new ADIZ declaration is another. China doesn't need "a reason" to start a war or armed conflict unless they are sure that they can win. Nothing more.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It`s all the jingoistic huffing and puffing by Abe that has led to this pass

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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