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China warns of 'further actions' in Japan island dispute

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I am getting really sick of China talking about how this or that has been theirs for centuries. The current incarnation of China has only been around for less than a hundred years. Oh no! further actions I think all of this may be a ploy to see how far they can push issues before someone pushes back. Their posturing is ridiculous.

27 ( +32 / -6 )

What possible diplomatic solution can be found? China is demanding these islands and the entire continental shelf. Does not leave room to talk other than Japan surrendering the islands and EEZ.

22 ( +27 / -5 )

China isn't going to be happy until not just all of Asia, but the entire world looks at them with disgust and as a threat. They're throwing away everything they've achieved in the last 20 years.

25 ( +28 / -4 )

I'm a japanese descendant and since the beginning I was at Japan's side.

But now I thing China got a really strong point. They claim the islands are China's, from ancient times.

At the same time, I don't see any japanese reaction to this. Where is Noda? While China makes it clear what are its position, Japan doesn't positionate itself. And it is very bad.

-34 ( +5 / -37 )

But now I thing China got a really strong point. They claim the islands are China's, from ancient times.

Ancient times being defined as 1969 when they realized there might be oil there, and they decided they would like to claim them.

25 ( +28 / -3 )

At the same time, I don't see any japanese reaction to this. Where is Noda? While China makes it clear what are its position, Japan doesn't positionate itself. And it is very bad.

Start with googling "MOFA Senkaku"

9 ( +14 / -5 )

But now I thing China got a really strong point. They claim the islands are China's, from ancient times.

China also claims that East Turkestan has been a part of China from ancient times even though blonde mummies found in the Taklamakan Desert prove otherwise. The Chinese are trying to take territory wherever they can anyway they can. If you give the Chinese an inch, they'll take a mile.

29 ( +31 / -3 )

Looks like it is over.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Fernando: as many stated previously, these islands were China's when the United States territory belonged to 'native Americans'. So what? Are the German going to reclaim the north east of France? Are the Mongols going to stake their claim to Chinese territory too? While it is a sad historical fact that they made several territorial concessions at the beginning of the 20th century to many 'agressors' Japan is the only one of them with relying on a third party for self-defense.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Ancient times? Don't make me laugh! The Communist Party denounced its own history. It despised its ancient times and opted for:

Sending teachers and other educated people to hard labour in the countryside Confiscating and punishing landowners and homeowners Children denouncing their parents in favour of the state Mass starvation of its own people Running its own people over with tanks Destroying people's houses without due process when it suits corrupt local governments Greed and the proliferation counterfeit goods (even after joining the WTO) See number 7 See number 8
20 ( +20 / -0 )

Man give that island to China so they can shut the F*** up! We got the biggest island Honshu who needs those small island. Go fish somewhere else JAPAN!!

-25 ( +4 / -29 )

Next China will claim , California, South America and whereever else anything made in China has been found.

Then after they will claim Calgon because it claimed ancient Chinese secret in their commercials.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

The wealthy countries gave China their current power. Cheap products equals expensive problems.

18 ( +18 / -0 )

The US gave the islands back to Japan with Okinawa after WWII. I am ashamed the US is not taking Japan's side on this because they do not want to upset China.

On the other hand, the US is the reason China is not being more aggressive in using its military here.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

During the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution of 1966, Chairman Mao and his wife unleashed hysterical street mobs called Red Guards against his political enemies. Today, this is how China's leaders prefer to conduct their international diplomacy. Old wine, new wineskins.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Japan should stand up against China and I will guarantee it will back down. Any military attempt by China will not only be a threat to China, but to the U.S. as well. China sees Japan as being a coward and will give in to China.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

After reading this and other articles about this subject, I have the following comments:

It is sad to see a peaceful Sino-Japanese relationship going down the toilet like this. It is bad for both economies.

There are two major issues here: One latent and the other one explicit.

(1) The first one, the latent one is the general under-current of “hatred of Japan” in the Chinese populace. Japan needs to fix it. A netizen in Japan put it the best when he exchange viewpoint with other in the following way: Conchobar Sep. 17, 2012 - 03:52AM JST issa1-- While I disagree with the Chinese and Korean governments using the history issue as an argument in every political dispute, the Japanese politicians are completely at fault for continuing to give them ammunition. In Japanese culture, doesn't an apology only count if the sinner shows sincere self-reflection? You say "no matter how many times the Japanese people apologize," but complete or partial denials are common from high-ranking officials. It's not enough for a few politicians to occasionally make a perfunctory apology. They are the exception rather than the norm. It needs to be widespread and expected behavior for a Japanese politician to show remorse for WW2. If even a few German politicians deny the Holocaust, do we let it go and say "well, they've apologized enough, and all the Nazis are dead anyway"? The ultimate proof that Japanese acknowledgement of war crimes is lacking is the widespread ignorance of the issue shown by Japanese people. Many have never even heard of the Nanjing Massacre, have no idea where anti-Japanese sentiment comes from, and don't understand why peaceful Japan suffered the atomic bombs. For the Chinese and Koreans to forgive and forget would be akin to a mother forgiving a murderer who killed her son and then told everyone she complains too much.

(2) The second one is the current explicit issue on Senkaku/Diaoyu. Japan has to explain to Chinese populace and the world why the following viewpoint is invalid:

Where is the legal footing for Japan to argue today with China, Korea and Russia (all nations on the winning side of the WW2) on any island disputes? How anybody with a right mind can support Japan’s argument?

The Potsdam Declaration, which was made on July 26, 1945 by the leaders of the Allied Forces and ACCEPTED by the defeated Japanese Empire, clearly stated that the after WW2 Japan has sovereignty over nothing more than its four main islands and some designated nearby minor islets. (Look it up in any history book or encyclopedia.) As a loser of WW2, among other penalties, Japan gave up Taiwan (and Diaoyu was under Taiwan jurisdiction both during Chinese dynasty and under Japanese Empire rule).

(At 1972, when Diaoyu was included in the US return of Okinawa to Japan, both Taipei and Beijing lodged official diplomatic protest protested and people demonstrated in the streets. Even today US has no position on the sovereignty of this island. So this Diaoyu is NOT an uncontested island.)

What? Japan and others want to overturn the result of WW2??

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

So much hate and dislikes aimed at the Chinese, so much negativity here, Why?? So many people excited about the prospects of a conflict between Japan and China and even the Americans. !!!! you people really confuse me.

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

People always said "you'll suffer what you did in the past". That happened now, Japan intruded China during 1860-1945 when China was weakest in his history, so it's unavoidable that JP suffered something today. Moreover, suppose JP didn't intrude CN, commie was already terminated by KMT in 1930's (according to Mao's words). BTW, Korea's "East Asia News" said It's JP's fault for this dispute.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

The tragedy is there will come a day that there will be shoot-out

Sounds a bit Chicken Littleish to me.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

At the same time, I don't see any japanese reaction to this. Where is Noda? While China makes it clear what are its position, Japan doesn't positionate itself. And it is very bad.

This is a good thing. Japan should just ignore everything China is saying, and see if China tries to make a real military move. Japan is playing mature here, calling for cool. China is like a spoilt brat kid wanting another toy. See if they have the muscles to grab it back, and then unleash the wrath of the world. The international community has had enough of their expansionist skirmishes over the past 2 decades.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

As stated, China is the new bully in 21th. century, with shameless attitude. According to ancient China, Tibet was a sovereign state; would they return to Tibet? The world must stand up against China's aggression.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

fw360

In reply:

1) You are correct in identifying that unresolved issues surrounding WWII heavily prejudices smooth relations between Japan and the victims of her former aggression. That said, China and the two Korea's cynically milk that for all its worth. And at a steep price. Japan's inability to come clean is wrapped up with her post war governmental paralysis -- a paralysis only obvious since the economic bust of the 80s. But the Koreas and China are in their own way equally restrained in their ability to steer things.

Nationalism is a powerful force.

2) The Senkakyu Islands belonged to the US. When we gave back Okinawa in 1972, along went the Senkaku. Japan's current claim on them in no way abrogates any of their international treaties from the immediate post- war period.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

In China they have no human rights, but yet they decide to protest over islands that none of them can live on! Yes I agree what the Japanese did in WW2 was horrific, but that's in the past no way to go back, so wake up China and move on like everyone else!!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

So much hate and dislikes aimed at the Chinese, so much negativity here, Why??

Read Death by China: Confronting the Dragon - A Global Call to Action by Peter W. Navarro. China is no friend of the United States. Quite the contrary. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll in June found that 62% saw China as an adversary; just 25% saw it as an ally. As China becomes increasingly more belligerent, look to see the number of Americans that view China as an adversary increase dramatically.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

tokyo-star, my point of view and i'm sure also the rest of the world thinks like this, is that "silent gives consent".

One can be totally right, but if he himself keeps silent, he will be agreeing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

fw60: there is a duty to remember the errors of the past so you do not repeat them. Not to bear a grudge. You really won't see the French calling for the brits to be exterminated today when they had been at war for over a hundred years not so long ago in their history. Truth be told the people of China are also a victim in this case. How do you want Japan to help address that hatred issue with a population that has been brainwashed into it by a communist regime thats struggling to survive?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@tokyo-star Japan is just a colony of the US, and has to wait for Uncle Sam! Japan has no foreign policy, except kowtowing to the US government! It is time to the intelligent people of Tokyo University, Keio University, Kyoto University and Waseda University to wake up and start looking for Kimigayo's future, which should be founded in a strong pan East Asian Union like the European Union does for Germany!

-2 ( +3 / -4 )

“Of course, that being said, we still hope for a peaceful and negotiated solution to this issue,”

Peaceful negotiations are of course a possibility if both sides are willing to tone things down. A "solution to the issue", now that I don't see.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

LOL like the European Union, you see how well that has been working out lately.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Read Death by China: Confronting the Dragon - A Global Call to Action by Peter W. Navarro. China is no friend of the United States. Quite the contrary. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll in June found that 62% saw China as an adversary; just 25% saw it as an ally. As China becomes increasingly more belligerent, look to see the number of Americans that view China as an adversary increase dramatically.

Actually the best thing is to see how many allies in the region are on China's side. The US has many allies (and enemies too). A lot of countries even those that do business with China don't trust China

We're forgetting what China is doing to South Korea, Taiwan, Phillipines etc. Those countries also see it as a land grab for their disputes with China. China is hungry for resources, so they need more sources to get some without spending more.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Well just to enlighten anyone about the way the Chinese do atrocities in their own country when people march against their movement. Check out this link on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oeESDHJvb8

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I don't think a strong pan East Asian Union would be possible any time soon given countries in the region still remember Japan's aggressive past, especially under the leadership of Tokyo elites. I do think that all the countries being bullied by China should band together in some way to hem China in once and for all.

As for Senkakus, Taiwan has reportedly proposed a joint development project of the islands - something China, Taiwan and Japan should look at in more detail once all this fiasco blows over. That's if China doesn't make the mistake of any irreversible military action, or collapse internally within the next year. Pictures of those blokes holding Mao portraits indicate that Japan and Senkaku isn't the only issue causing such violence in China over the last week.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I know what you mean. Did you also see all the Chinese restaurants being attacked in Osaka, and all the Chinese car dealers being threatened and I've seen many Japanese staged governmental violent demonstrations taking place at the Chinese consulate. Japan is as an incredible aggressive nation.

Time to let the UN deal with this. In the meantime I would if I was Japan immediately make plans to a complete withdrawal of all industrial production in China. Looking at the unstable political and economic situation developing in China it's clear it's not a good safe basis anymore for large scale production there are other nations out there like Thailand and Vietnam who can take over. .

>So much hate and dislikes aimed at the Chinese, so much negativity here, Why?? So many people excited about the prospects of a conflict between Japan and China and even the Americans. !!!! you people really confuse me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Washington newspaper reports Chinese government has given orders to its military units to get ready for action.

lol... Japan... good luck... lol...

To think, all this could have avoided if that Ishihara and his cohorts shut their traps, and the Japanese government didn't pander to their right winger voters constituency. This easily could have been avoided, but emotionalism got in the way. After Korea ignored Japan's threats, Japan miscalculated China. China isn't like Korea, I thought Japan would have learned their lessons by now. But aparrently not.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

I was reading China's point of view in chinese newspaper (in english) and I have to say chinese media and politicians are doing a very good Job.

I don't know who is right or who is wrong anymore, but the quality of chinese foreign policy is much much better than the japanese.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Let the 3 claimee`s duke it out in a televised TV match......Anything goes!! Cage style!!...s"#t would get real ! ha! winner takes ALL !

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If you are serious Japan start by demanding Ishihara's resignation! I am most shocked this hasn't even been discussed.This is coming down to bad blood only. This seems to be a serious issue.Start acting a little professional.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

OH...and a trophy !!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Here’s an interesting news to ponder. China has contacted Korea and has let known that they want to work with Korea to counter Japan’s territorial claims. Korea and China can negotiate the territorial boundaries including access to marine resources, right up to Okinawa. Their attitude is screw Japan, we’re going divide up the lines as we fit.

Japan royally screwed up by pissing off Korea who could have been on Japan’s side on their island issue with China, since Korea has never trusted China fully. Japan has just as much chance at getting Dokto back as they have chance at giving up the Senkankou to China. Japan should have picked their fight wisely. Now it would be royally funny if Korea buys the rights to fish and explore the area that's disputed by China and Japan. But I would imagine this will make the Japanese even more upset. lol...

Now do be aware, the same Korean source that reported the Chinese attempts to court Korea, against Japan, is also reporting that Korean authorities are trying hard not to appear that they're siding with the Chinese either. Again, this goes back to Korea's own problems with China and the Korean lack of trust for China.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

So for Korea in summary, both China and Japan can blast each other to pieces, for all we care. It will get rid of the two pain in the a$$ countries who have always been a thorn on the sides.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

My take away from the whole situation: East Asians can't be trusted. Chinese, Japanese are the same.

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

@chucky3176 Korea is always pissed off at something. But I guess since you find everything about the situation funny with your "lol this lol that" then I guess there is no reasoning with you.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I see the Pro China lobby is at work here to try to twist the facts just as China is, i suppose it was just a matter of tie before such spin was tried. Well it wont work.

Japan has every right to acquire the islands as they were offered by a private owner for SALE< this is NOT a territorial grab by an aggressive nation, it is a rational move to secure more resources and to settle an unpleasant attempt by an aggresive country, China, to grab all of the Pacific basin it can.

Trying to drag in Okinawa, Korea, the past, the future and just about any issue under the sun wont work. The matter is simple, Japan is being peaceful and reasonable and calm, China is the one shaking fists and making a fuss, and it just wont wash anymore, we are tired of China as the Bully.

The modern world has other ways to settle disputes than violence, in this case it was a matter of money changing hands and a title changing hands just as in any property transaction. The owner could have sold the islands to China but they chose not to. That was their free choice.

Propaganda and semantic and debating tricks wont change realty. Sorry China, you have already lost on this issue best move on and take care and get your own house in order.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

OK China, we're all quite bored hearing about the 'further action(s)' that you continue to 'reserve the right' to take.

So, let's hear what those further actions might be. Are you going to bomb Japan, tell fishermen to ram Japanese Coastguard boats (as per usual) expel diplomats, step up the encouragement of your brainwshed populace to attack Japanese businesses (or, stupidly, those Chinese owned restaurants that happen to be called 'Samurai' or 'Shogun'), or just stop flooding the market with your shoddy products? Maybe you'll stop sending so many tourists to Tokyo Disneyland ....oooer!, we give up, take the islands!

And who declares the 'right to take further actions'.....the international community, NATO? No, jingoistic China declares China's right to do things. So it must be true.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Some child want everything, and this time he wants a toy that U.S. gave once. Next, he is going to require bigger one. Finally he is going to require everything what include Europe. Adults have to educate children, right?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

chucky3176Sep. 19, 2012 - 09:48AM JST

Washington newspaper reports Chinese government has given orders to its military units to get ready for action. lol... Japan... good luck... lol...

How about a link? Or did you just make that up?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ancient Egypt is not equivalent to the modern Egypt.

Ancient Israel is not equivalent to modern-day Israel.

Ancient Romans is not equivalent to modern-day Italy.

Ancient Persia is not equivalent to modern-day conceited Iran.

exactly the same as:

Ancient China is not equivalent to modern-day Communist China.

The ancient China (3000 to 2000 years ago) went to Korea and then to NARA, Japan. Middle-age China (Ming Dynasty) together with the empire in the Korean Peninsula in the 13th Century joined forces with the Mongols/Chinese to attack Japan a couple of times (thanks to the Kamikaze, the Divine Wind)

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Private owned island? Come on! Japanese seems want to fool the world. Everyone in the world is smart enough to know that the island belongs to China. Japan's tricky can only fool themselves.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

This sort of demonstrates that there are a lot of stupid, uneducated, violent people in China..

6 ( +7 / -1 )

chucky, Red China is using this as an excuse. If Japan gives in they will next demand the rest of the Ryukyu islands. Unlike Red China, Germany and South Korea there is freedom of speech in Japan. You have the right to make political comments no matter how stupid. The Government of Japan will not censor peoples words to please the communists.

About pissing off South Korea, shrugs. They control the rocks and Japan is only yapping. We will not take them by force since that would be aiding the enemy.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Guess the US is essentially telling China to cool down. Reports say Noda was actually informed over a month ago about C-government's planned indirect involvement in major-scale demonstrations (ie riots) and possible landing of C-ships on the island. Which raises a question - why did Noda nonetheless choose this very timing (ie Sept 11) to announce the island purchase which will obviously add fuel to the already planned fire, while doing nothing in advance to assure the safety of the J-people residing in China? Raises questions on how seriously and deeply this matter was ever discussed within the cabinet leading to their decision of Sept 11 and whether there is any room for J-government to cool down any further than the current temperature which appears to be very very low.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Mongolia used to own everything from Poland to Korea. They should get China if "since ancient times" is a valid argument for superseding current, legal claims.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

At least the other groups fight over something of value.

The fishing rights around the islands and the potential oil and mineral resources are worth billions (yen, euros, dollars, yuan, whatever). Nobody in government cares about a couple of rocks for their own sake.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

it is a rational move to secure more resources and to settle an unpleasant attempt by an aggresive country, China, to grab all of the Pacific basin it can.

Hold on there CrisGerSan. Look at the map and see where those disputed islands are. What the hell is Japan doing in that region close to South East Asia? Those islands may not even belong to China, but it certainly doesn't look like it's anywhere close enough to Japan to make it Japanese. Japanese keep on talking of land grabs by China. Yes that's true to a certain extent, but Japan is not only much better, but Japan is even worse when it comes to claiming wide swaths of the Pacific in their EEZ claims. In terms of territorial ambitions, you both are bad, don't try to be a victim when you're not!

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

chucky3176Sep. 19, 2012 - 09:48AM JST

Washington newspaper reports Chinese government has given orders to its military units to get ready for action. lol... Japan... good luck... lol...

Please post the URL for the source.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Chinese communist government is just trying to BUY TIME. They are worried by their own in fighting because they can not agree on a new leader. So the simple thing to do for these communists is to make this show about these stupid islands, Senkaku, to get the average Chinese who hates their job, their life, to feel a bit of power by attacking Japanese cars?? Japanese stores?? Let them blow off some steam but now we can see what the REAL CHINA is, it is a bully, it is low down, underhanded and can not be trusted, so time to BOYCOTT everything CHINESE, boycott anything and everything MADE IN CHINA, geez what suck is that also means this computer! But Japan can make computers, and tv, etc..Japan should bring back those factories, jobs here to Japan and to other countries that do LIKE JAPAN, not to silly Chinese who actually hate their own COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT but are too afraid to make any demands or protests against BEIJING.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Just look at Japan's ridiculous EEZ claims based on their territorial claims, it makes the Chinese claims look like child's play.

http://image.chosun.com/sitedata/image/201205/01/2012050100281_0.jpg

If it was up to the King Solomon, he would not give the islands to neither Japan or China. The islands should belong to some country in South East Asia. Both Japan and China should get out of the area which they have no business in!

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

If China thinks that the isles are China's territory, it would already have took over them by force whatever. But China now can't do it, because China has many reasons such as the US is always behind Japan, Whole international communities are watching this dispute,,,etc. One thing I'm sure is China does not want to lose the credibility of international communities as China is the World's big factory, and China knows its military power always will not be able to make it best for international communities.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well, China kept quiet about the islands until 1971, when it started claiming they were theirs.

An interesting thing is that Noda, government and other MPs have remained silent and don't look like they're giving in, as they did last time over the caught Chinese fishermen. "Let the Chinese scream until they get tired" seems to be their policy. It'll be too late, however, if the Chinese started killing Japanese people around, which is a matter of time, with the way things are going. Suggesting talks looks unlikely in this chicken race.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China, like most things made in your country, your claim is a cheap imitation. Someone else owns the rights to the islands--but when did China ever care about rights?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Guess the US is essentially telling China to cool down. Reports say Noda was actually informed over a month ago about C-government's planned indirect involvement in major-scale demonstrations (ie riots) and possible landing of C-ships on the island.

That would explain the transfer of F-22 Raptors to Kadena and the arrival of the V-22 Ospreys.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

On a news broadcast last night, it looked like the "protesters" were being bused in? It's all being organised by the Chinese communist gov't to cover up their own domestic troubles and the current power struggle for leadership of the country.

If these protests were about their freedom or the corruption of their leaders, how long do you think it would last?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

OssanAmerica,

The source comes from the Korean portal, Naver, which quotes the paper, Washington Free Beacon.

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=shm&sid1=104&oid=277&aid=0002844039

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Just look at Japan's ridiculous EEZ claims based on their territorial claims, it makes the Chinese claims look like child's play.

Majority of those were approved by U.N. Body, Commssions on Limits of Continental Shelf. IF China wants to claim their sovereignty of Senkaku, they are more than welcome to do so under another U.N. Organ in ICJ.

If not, I suggest China to shut the xxxx up.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

zichi: it would last just long enough for their tanks to come out

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China better watch or they are going to get rapped on the nose by the US. The US recognizes the islands as Japanese. That is why they gave them back to Japan with Okinawa after the war.

The US right now is trying not to piss of China so it is being quiet. But the US will side with Japan if push comes to shove.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Japan is showing a lot of restraint and is acting like a mature and responsible nation. No matter what they do at this point, China has lost.....even if they invade and grab the islands, they have been revealed at the primitive bully that i had suspected they still were. Just by becoming a huge carbon copy of the western modern world, they have not changed their true nature, since the revolution and their abandoning their own traditional culture China has pretty much remained based on power and force.

Japan has shown great respect and restraint, took the only reasonable move about ownership of the islands and resources in question and they are in the eyes of International and Maritime Law already in full title and possession of the islands. Any further action by China will be acts of aggression and will be opposed by all reasonable international entities including the UN i am sure.

For now, it is best to just wait and watch, which is exactly what Japan is doing. Well done, my respect and admiration. :)

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Majority of those were approved by U.N. Body, Commssions on Limits of Continental Shelf

Not so fast Nigelboy. China, Taiwan, Hong Kong are all contesting Japan's claims that those islands are not Japanese - which makes your EEZ claims, disputed.

If China thinks that the isles are China's territory, it would already have took over them by force whatever. But China now can't do it, because China has many reasons such as the US is always behind Japan,

Not so fast kwatt. China can use their naval forces to take the islands by force. Japan could either resist or they may not even do that. The loss of lives could be limited to naval casualties at worst case scenario. The battle will not involve civilian casualties nor will it threaten mainland Japan. The US will have to decide if it's worth the effort to get into a war with China over those disputed islands. My bet is that the US will not involved themselves in an war of nationalism which has no baring on Japan's sovereignty. The war weary, bankrupt American people will not accept that. So Japan will have to get out of this mess by themselves.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Communist government always orchestrates all demonstrations against Japan. People themselves don't notice they are being used by communist government because of long time patriotism education, and look at the government is controlling all information in China.There is no freedom of expression and speech there. So all people are likely going to the only one way unnoticed.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

China isn't going to be happy until not just all of Asia, but the entire world looks at them with disgust and as a threat. They're throwing away everything they've achieved in the last 20 years

Ossan,

We agree on something!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Chinese monster is getting out of hand, capitalism help create this monster but the suits & wallstreet types are unlikely to fix it.

Lets hope the monster settles down so the rest of the world need not chop its ugly head off!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Cris

No matter what they do at this point, China has lost.....even if they invade and grab the islands

They might lose your respect, and the respect of a lot of other folks, but i seriously doubt they'll lose any sleep over that. If they grab the islands, they'll have won.

I think it was Plato who said that if a man steals your coat, then he's the loser because, while he has your coat, he's forfeited his honour, while you still have yours. Woody Allen's response to this was "Yeah, but now I'm cold".

Might is right in international affairs, much as we may wish it were otherwise.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Not so fast Nigelboy. China, Taiwan, Hong Kong are all contesting Japan's claims that those islands are not Japanese - which makes your EEZ claims, disputed.

Is that one country or three chucky? Like I said, the limits on continental shelf is approved (4 out of 7 requests approved with one pending review on the next round).

China, Taiwan, and or HK better file their claims to Senkaku to ICJ or there is no dispute.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Let's not forget Japan (by letting Ishihara into office) is the bad guy in this matter. The US will not help them, even if "push comes to shove". I hope they don't! Japan must grow up and stand for themselves. It's time to stop acting like a spoiled brat.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Last time Japan caved in to China due to economic pressure and this time the "further actions" I believe would be similar.

This time however will be Japan's income instead of production. There are arguements in this issue on the damage between both countries but I believe both Chinese and Japanese government not JT members like me and you, know the best of this outcome.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

chucky, America is bound to support Japan by treaty. If they do not honor this treaty other countries will see their treaties with the USA as worthless. So if China attacks then they will be bound to help Japan resist invasion.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Well it can't be ignored that Ishihara can more or less be blamed for starting this particular round of moronic behaviour (on all sides).

However he isn't let into office, Japan is at least democratic in principle, sadly he was voted into office.

It has been a simmering issue and he turned up the temperature for no good reason other than self promotion.

Wonder if he got a decent enough cut of that 2 billion yen...

Doesn't excuse violence or destruction, but he knew what he was doing, and perhaps this is precisely what he wanted to happen..

I think the US will stay out of it as long as it stays only around those stupid rocks, however 100km to the south, or east and it will be the beginning of terrible times for us all.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Let's not forget Japan (by letting Ishihara into office) is the bad guy in this matter"

Most people aren't thinking much about Ishihara at this stage. The only people talking about him are the foreigners on JT who saw trouble ahead months ago.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I think the US will stay out of it as long as it stays only around those stupid rocks, however 100km to the south, or east and it will be the beginning of terrible times for us all.

If war broke out, Chinese navy came and would shoot bullets and missiles all directions. If US base or US airplanes (flying over isles for military drill) were destroyed unfortunately, then what would the US think about it? US jet fighters and airplanes are flying up all over Senkaku archipelagos all the time for military drill because US think these isles are Japan's territory.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

chucky, America is bound to support Japan by treaty. If they do not honor this treaty other countries will see their treaties with the USA as worthless. So if China attacks then they will be bound to help Japan resist invasion.

America will support any country being attacked, without the need of any treaty.

And for God's sake, this conflict is not good for both Japan and China. Total trade between the two countries in 2011 was $345 billion.

Japanese foreign policy must positionate itself around the conflict trying to calm down things.

This silence from J-government is not good and may be very imature. I hope the silence is because J-government has complete control of the situation, and not the opposite.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

yeah funny that..

Right about him, right about Fukushima, right about so many things.. perhaps its time we were allowed to have a say too, I pay so why not??

However.. I suppose there is little point thinking about him now.. other than to perhaps persuading people that these old men that get into positions or power are more often than not just plain trouble.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

uh oh

Jin Baisong from the Chinese Academy of International Trade – a branch of the commerce ministry – said China should use its power as Japan’s biggest creditor with $230bn (£141bn) of bonds to “impose sanctions on Japan in the most effective manner” and bring Tokyo’s festering fiscal crisis to a head.

Writing in the Communist Party newspaper China Daily, Mr Jin called on China to invoke the “security exception” rule under the World Trade Organisation to punish Japan, rejecting arguments that a trade war between the two Pacific giants would be mutually destructive.

Separately, the Hong Kong Economic Journal reported that China is drawing up plans to cut off Japan’s supplies of rare earth metals needed for hi-tech industry ...

Fitch Ratings threatened to downgrade a clutch of Japanese exporters if the clash drags on. It warned that Nissan is heavily at risk with 26p of its global car sales in China, followed by Honda with 20pc. Sharp and Panasonic both have major exposure. Japan’s exports to China were $74bn in the first half of this year. Bilateral trade reached $345bn last year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9551727/Beijing-hints-at-bond-attack-on-Japan.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

YuriOtani, America is forced to come to the aid of Japan is Japan is under attack. But like I said, I highly doubt they will come to the rescue of Japan just because of those islands. That is if China attacks the island which is very far from the Japan mainland, but encroach no further up into Japan. America theoretically can get out of the duty to come to the aid by saying those islands are disputed so they are not 100% Japanese. So therefore they're not going to get involved in such disputes. Also, I don't think the US will come to the aid of Ishihara and his cohorts who caused all these troubles - especially when it's well known what kinds of anti-American acts Ishihara has been famous for. Ishihara even wrote books like "Japan that can say no", over 25 years ago, that poked fingers at America. Why would Americans come and help anti-American brats that are ruling Japan currently? I would think America would let the rotten Japanese brats sit and stew.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The AP just reported: Beijing demonstrators damage US ambassador's car

This is what I've been saying all along: once China's leaders allow their countrymen's latent xenophobia out of the bag, they lose control. Idiots.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Jin Baisong from the Chinese Academy of International Trade – a branch of the commerce ministry – said China should use its power as Japan’s biggest creditor with $230bn (£141bn) of bonds to “impose sanctions on Japan in the most effective manner” and bring Tokyo’s festering fiscal crisis to a head.

Well at least they have something to sell. Unlike what Japan threatened to do against Korea, which was to sell Korean bonds which they supposedly held, but which turned out to be only 0.6% of the entire Korean bond market. At least China can back up their threats which are real.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@chucky3176 You are right on the money with your assessments. I hope Japan doesn't one have to awake to the sobering realisation that if you want to manipulate your allies to support your questionable policies, they won't be interested in supporting you. The Japanese seem to think that the treaty is binding law. Which couldn't be more wrong. It will be decided on a case-by-case basis, which is obvious to anyone with some knowledge of international politics (which may be a hint at why it seems to escape most Japanese).

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

This silence from J-government is not good and may be very imature. I hope the silence is because J-government has complete control of the situation, and not the opposite.

Japanese and Chinese government are contacting each other secretly to find out way to settle it down and to avoid potential war as nobody wants their economy worse, and China is now in recession and its growth declines after Lehman shocks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@YuriOtani You sound like you are living in a dream world. The treaty you are referring to does not cover a case where Japan provokes it's neighbours over a disputed piece of rock on the coast of Taiwan. You should read some international newspapers, and stop getting your news from Japanese sources only (which are very biased).

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Well at least they have something to sell. Unlike what Japan threatened to do against Korea, which was to sell Korean bonds which they supposedly held, but which turned out to be only 0.6% of the entire Korean bond market. At least China can back up their threats which are real.

yes, i remember reading an article about a japanese official threatening korea, something about bond.

imo, it would be better to have an economic conflict, even limited, rather than physical/military war (however limited), at least it would perhaps lead to some kind of a better solution to this island problem.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Further reasons why the US will not come to Japan's aid over the islands. The US won't mind Japan rearming. It will be a boon to US military industry which could lead America out of recession. But it will come at the expense of Japanese finances which will further add to their already heavy debt load.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Actually Secretary Clinton has already pledged to help Japan defend these islands.

http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/287905/clinton_says_disputed_islands_part_of_japan-us_pact:_maehara/

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@YuriOtani You sound like you are living in a dream world. The treaty you are referring to does not cover a case where Japan provokes it's neighbours over a disputed piece of rock on the coast of Taiwan. You should read some international newspapers, and stop getting your news from Japanese sources only (which are very biased).

I think so. Only piece of rock is nothing for the US interests. But If China attacked Okinawa US bases or mainland of Japan, it would be a different story and US would be more serious about it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@YuriOtani I think you will be in tears very soon if you find out the reality. If there is a local war in East Asia, which will erase Japan from the surface of the Earth (because nukes) and heavily damage China, the US and Europe will be the winners. It will be a huge blow to the whole Asian continent. The US now says they support Japan to drive them further into the conflict. The US (Obama administration) is also very worried about the influence of the Yakuza in the US. If Japan is blown into pieces, the Yakuza is also powerless.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

No YuriOtani. Read your own article you posted, and take HansNFranz's advice of not listening to Japanese media. This is what your link says:

"According to the Japanese minister, Clinton said that the Senkakus... are subject to Article 5 of the bilateral security treaty, which authorizes the U.S. to protect Japan in the event of an armed attack 'in the territories under the administration of Japan'," the report said.

The dispatch did not quote Maehara directly.

State Department spokesman Philip Crowley separately told reporters the United States takes no position on the sovereignty of the islands.

"The issue of the Senkakus is complicated," Crowley said in New York.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

So here you have a Japanese minister who says Hillary Clinton said the US will come to Japanese aid - but the Japanese media didn't directly quote the minister. Then the very next sentence, the US state department says the US takes no position on this matter because it's a complicated issue. Who are you going to believe Yuri, the Japanese media quoting a Japanese minister, or the US state department? My money's on the US state department.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Actually Secretary Clinton has already pledged to help Japan defend these islands.

Secretary Clinton is not a commander of US Arm forces. Only the President of US will decide whether US will go to war or not! It is questionable about how far will China take action?

US can easily defeat China for the conventional warfare. However if China nuked US east coast, it is not worth for US involving for that conflict. The stakes will be very high for both US and Japan. Of course US can nuke back. In term of population, they have 1.3 billions. US has 300 millions. China can afford to lose more people than US. May be Russia will fly their nuke missiles too because they also have dispute with Japan.

If China has stopped buying US treasury bonds, Secretary will be struggled to implement the war. He salary was financed by China too. Waging war is not cheap like talk. China has happily financed for Irag war. For Senkaku issue, who will give the finance to US? May be Japan or Korea. It is unlikely that other nations will want to join the that stupid war for inhabited rocky islands?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The China populace does not hate Japan, the extreme are only a few just like those right wingers in Japan. America is the perpetrator for breaking the sino-Japan relationship. The US needs to step out of Asia and stop turning Asian neighbours against each other.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

America will support any country being attacked, without the need of any treaty.

The US will support Japan because it's in its interest to do so. Look at a map of the Senkaku Islands and its surrounding areas. By taking the Senkaku Islands, the Chinese can build an airfield like they did at Woody Island. The Senkaku islands become a springboard for attacks both on Taiwan and US bases in Okinawa. It's in the interest of the US to prevent that from happening. By the way, the Chinese have miscalculated before. You only need to go back to May of 1999 when the Chinese thought the US wouldn't do anything when they set up rebro/SIGINT facilities in their embassy for the Serbs.

That was great targeting ... we put two JDAMs down into the attache's office and took out the exact room we wanted ... they (the Chinese) won't be using that place for rebro (re-broadcasting radio transmissions) any more...

If the Chinese believe the US is going to sit by idly and do nothing, they're going to get a ruder awakening than they did in 1999. The Chinese are going to get a lot more than two JDAMs dropped on them this time.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I don't think that war breaks out between two countries. Red military maybe wants war but c-government really doesn't want it because of serious Chinese recession. Today's demonstrations all over China are very quiet and calm and seem to be not any more. Both governments are finding out way to settle it down to avoid war.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@kwatt I hope you are right. It all depends on whether Japan continues with the provocations like buying the islands (they spent money on something they say they already own, LOL). Also, it is very interesting to see people like YuriOtani argue. This is a very good showcase of how little grasp of political realities most Japanese people (I suppose YuriOtani is Japanese) have. They are not interested usually in anything outside of the Japanese borders, so when something like the island dispute arises, they appear to have their understanding of politics diplomacy sourced from Hollywood movies.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Further action is meaninglessly vague - it could mean anything from a game of junken, to an invasion.

However, there is no doubt Japan's enemy China is now targeting Japan's allies to attempt to drive a wedge. This is already happening with attacks on the US embassy, and the burning of US flags in China.

Japan is foolish if it fails to build a nuclear arsenal with which it can annihilate China in the eventuality of China attempt to annex Japan.

Chinese are already calling for the killing of regular Japanese citizen in Tokyo. Don't believe me? Check for yourself. Be prepared for acts of terrorism in Tokyo, not from Al Quada, but from Beijing. That's what they want - read the banners.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tiger, sorry do disagree with you - the rank and file Chinese person does INDEED hate Japanese people. (They claim to hate the "Japanese-government" not the people, but this is not true - they detest Japanese people). It is the result of anti-Japanese hate propaganda they are force feed from early childhood, and constant references to WW2.

Even contemporary younger "educated" Chinese harbor this hatred, don't be fooled.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@HansNFranz

Chinese government deeply worries one thing about such demonstrations come against their own government after Japan. The Isle is just a face for people which China lost because Japan did not care about the demand from the top leader of China. If China's recession is worse and worse, more people would protest their government instead of Japan, and another big revolution would happen to China again. That's Chinese government does not want.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Thywillbedone.

Those that also count for all the Chinese tourists and the Chinese/Japanese couples I know. My Shrfu is Chinese and married to a Japanese as is my neighbour.

That hate only exists in your mind.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hey FernandoUchiyama:

"my point of view and i'm sure also the rest of the world thinks like this,"

Your first "Point of view" recieved 24 thumbs down, yet you seem to think the rest of the world thinks like you.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Hanz "This is a very good showcase of how little grasp of political realities most Japanese people (I suppose YuriOtani is Japanese) have. They are not interested usually in anything outside of the Japanese borders, so when something like the island dispute arises, they appear to have their understanding of politics diplomacy sourced from Hollywood movies"

You can't be serious hanz... If you really believe that then you are dumber than the average high school bimbo's we have here. heh. I noticed a lot of you on here just glean information from what you see on the tele. And others it's just downright wishful thinking filled with hate. You would rather take the side of a country that has no respect for your rights as a human being because you are sheep. You love being told what to do, how to do it, and who to do it with. Tell you what. When big bad china gives Tibet back to her people, and stops murdering them, then china can ask for the islands, assuming they really belong to them in the first pace...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The reality? China is very powerful, and could probably only be matched by the USA and a coalition of European forces on a military scale. Japan is tiny. Get it?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I"ts ME san: Yes, there are certainly Chinese who are not infected with hatred of Japanese people, that is for sure. I should not have written an absolute statement, and thank you for mentioning this. Those Chinese who have been exposed to the cultures of the world, or, who are enlightened and think for themselves, yes, they do not harbor this vulgar hatred of Japanese people. I've know several women from Hong Kong who adopted Japanese first names, and I can only assume these women don't hate Japanese people, and there are several famous Chinese Japanophiles and promoter of Japanese culture, and I know some personally.

However, I was shocked to learn of the level of hatred against Japanese people within China among ordinary rank and file, and even among professional people. There is truly a hideous disease of hatred in China, sorry, it's not only in my mind. I am happy you see a utopia of love (sincerely), but the irrational hatred of Japanese people in China is real.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Personally I see few Japanese hating the Chinese or Korean right now, most just want the conflict to go away.

I am sure it will be resolved peacefully in the end.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Have to agree with superbird, a lot of people on here seem to be picking fragments of information that's either posted by someone on here or what they pick up from local media and using it.

It war, territories are gained and lost. Not all is returned to original owners. These islands maybe Japan owned them, maybe China owned them ...both haven't put forward their case to any tribunal or international body.

China is being the aggressor here....good luck with that China. US is not going to sit idle for long if they open a confrontation with Japan.

Then as superbird stated everyone will have a chance to view quality over quantity when it comes to military might.

What's China going to do ? Attack Japan ?? Ha ha haaaaaaa ! Then after they start getting a ass whooping threaten with nukes again ??

China seems to be due for a tune up in aggressive behavior and the cons to it.

Let the historians,geology specialists and legal courts actually decide who owns the islands. It was written that Japan offered to settle this in that fashion.

Those islands belong to a continental shelf....who's ? Japan's ? Taiwans ? China's?

To me looking at this, those islands are China's about as much as the NWT of Canada belong to Russia...NOT !!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@thywillbedone China is China - nobody intelligent should be surprised that there is a lot of hate for Japan in certain groups of the Chinese society. But what about Japan's view on China, especially among the broad and numerous fraction of right-of-center politicians and their voters? The right-wing in Japan is very strong and has public backing. Do these people love, or even respect China? I think it is rather obvious that Ishihara even hates China. The mayor of Tokyo! So, this is not a one sided affair. Japan does nothing to improve the relations, so it shouldn't point at China and ask them to do the first step. China is bigger and economically more powerful. Japanese respect power, so it is time to accept that China is now the senpai.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

What the hell ever happened to "rising peacefully"?? Everyone knew it was bullsh*t, but China at least could have put some effort into that lie.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ishihara probably does hate China but don't forget he hates everyone and everything (including Japanese people), except himself and a few business buddies. He is the very example of what is wrong with the world right now, and not just in Japan but every country, grumpy old stubborn selfish uneducated men.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The islands has been part of China much earlier than Japanese claimed it as "no-man land", a lot of documents have proved the fact. Moreover, the Potsdam Agreement clearly states that: "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Greetings to HansNFranz - your words prove what everyone already knows. China expects Japan to kowtow to the new "sempai" as you stated. This is not about the islands.

Japan must make it abundantly clear she will never bow to vulgar Chinese unilateralism. China has alienated all her neighbors, except her only friend and cultural equal: North Korea.

It would be wise for Japan to acquire nuclear weapons as soon as possible and make clear she will use them against her enemy China when the time comes.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

tokyo-star, Japan surrendered in WWII and Japan accepted that it should return all the territories occupied.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

By occupied I assume that you mean Japanese took control over the local population. Senkaku never had a local population.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

tokyo-star, a population isn't necessary in this case. Actually, there are more details and I hope Japanese and Chinese people should have a friendly discussion for fact-finding first, and both sides can then have their own opinions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think Japan should make the following deal with Japan and Russia: Japan gets the Kuril islands taken by Russia at the end of WWII, Russia gets the disputed territory that Putin wants on the Chinese Russian border and China gets the Senkaku Islands. If the Chinese refuse to go along with the deal, then Japan should give the Islands to Taiwan and they can fight over it with China.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

efisherSEP. 19, 2012 - 03:22PM JST The islands has been part of China much earlier than Japanese claimed it as "no-man land", a lot of documents have proved the fact. Moreover, the Potsdam Agreement clearly states that: "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."

and the documentation Japan has seems to support that these stupid rocks "such minor islands" were considered part of Japan by Japan and the US, now that may be correct or not but this current madness doesn't help anyone.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

wish this forum had edit function.. my reply is from.. > and the documentation...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Further actions....I think the general means a ballistic test firing at the islets!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A ballistic missile test firing firing might be iminnment! Thats whta the general means!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I think the "historical" reasoning is either just an excuse or grossly overemphasized. As has been stated earlier in this thread, there are many countries on this Earth that have "owned" certain territories sometime back in history and don't "own" them anymore today.

Besides that, you have to hand it to the Koreans that they seem to know how effectively claim territory. On these islands which are called Takeshima by Japan, there are permanent facilities and a permanent outpost of police or military personnel. And no Japanese vessel comes near these isles, let alone tries to land on them.

The Senkaku islands, hoewever, are uninhabited. They're just there. And I think that's why they are still "disputed". If there were a permanent facility whatsoever on those islands and, say, a Coast Guard station or some port just to provide emergency shelter for fishing boats, flying the Japanese flag, there wouldn't be any "dispute" over those islands and no one, not even China, would dare come near them.

So basically, I think there is something to the question asked earlier: Where is Japan? There may be the position that from Japan's point of view there is no dispute about these islands since they are Japanese territory and therefore there is no need of taking a position - but... does the Japanese government hope the "dispute" goes away it they keep talking about a "peaceful solution"?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Nz2011, nice to discuss with you. For " such minor islands as we determine." , the "we" means the Allies, ie including China. I understand your point for the land ownership in history. Matters for human beings isn't a simple scientific issue. There may be grey area calling for wisdom of people from Japan and China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nigelboy, CrisGerSan, Thywillbedone, etc - - -

There is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides.

It is sad to see a mutually beneficial Sino-Japanese relationship going down the toilet like this. It is bad for both economies.

For those who do not understand the feeling on the other side, please take a deep breath and read my post carefully. I believe it is an honest summary of many people's feeling in China. (A good reference for some of that is: www.globletimes.cn.)

For Nigelboy, a quick note: China did send their claim officially to U.N. a few days ago. Actually China wanted to sit down and discuss this issue; it was Japan who refused. Chinese experts are saying if Japan can be forced to come to the negotiation table, then China can chalk it off as a win for this round of struggle. They feel are the victims on this deal, as a result of mis-handling (to include Senkaku) by USA during the 1972 transfer of Okinawa. Then, USA steps away saying she has "no position on the ownership", which was again repeated by US Defense Minister a few days ago in Tokyo. Many in China think that US did it intentionally to cause trouble between China and Japan.

Rightly or wrongly, look calmly about the following arguments.

There are two major issues here: One latent and the other one explicit.

(1) The first one, the latent one is the general under-current of "hatred of Japan" in the Chinese populace. Japan needs to fix it. A netizen in Japan put it the best when he exchange viewpoint with others in the following way: Conchobar Sep. 17, 2012 - 03:52AM JST issa1-- While I disagree with the Chinese and Korean governments using the history issue as an argument in every political dispute, the Japanese politicians are completely at fault for continuing to give them ammunition. In Japanese culture, doesn't an apology only count if the sinner shows sincere self-reflection? You say "no matter how many times the Japanese people apologize," but complete or partial denials are common from high-ranking officials. It's not enough for a few politicians to occasionally make a perfunctory apology. They are the exception rather than the norm. It needs to be widespread and expected behavior for a Japanese politician to show remorse for WW2. If even a few German politicians deny the Holocaust, do we let it go and say "well, they've apologized enough, and all the Nazis are dead anyway"? The ultimate proof that Japanese acknowledgement of war crimes is lacking is the widespread ignorance of the issue shown by Japanese people. Many have never even heard of the Nanjing Massacre, have no idea where anti-Japanese sentiment comes from, and don't understand why peaceful Japan suffered the atomic bombs. For the Chinese and Koreans to forgive and forget would be akin to a mother forgiving a murderer who killed her son and then told everyone she complains too much.

(2) The second one is the current explicit issue on Senkaku/Diaoyu. Japan has to explain to Chinese populace and the world why the following viewpoint is invalid:

Where is the legal footing for Japan to argue today with China, Korea and Russia (all nations on the winning side of the WW2) on any island disputes? How anybody with a right mind can support Japan’s argument?

The Potsdam Declaration, which was made on July 26, 1945 by the leaders of the Allied Forces and ACCEPTED by the defeated Japanese Empire, clearly stated that the after WW2 Japan has sovereignty over nothing more than its four main islands and some designated nearby minor islets. (Look it up in any history book or encyclopedia.) As a loser of WW2, among other penalties, Japan gave up Taiwan (and Diaoyu was under Taiwan jurisdiction both during Chinese dynasty and under Japanese Empire rule).

(At 1972, when Diaoyu was included in the US return of Okinawa to Japan, both Taipei and Beijing lodged official diplomatic protest protested and people demonstrated in the streets. Even today US has no position on the sovereignty of this island. So this Diaoyu is NOT an uncontested island.)

What? Japan and others want to overturn the result of WW2??

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I sincerely hope friends here may read the above post before the discussion.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

We need to become intelligent and wise in stead. Learning from the past demands wisdom and intelligence something we are able to do if we only would drop our egos and use our brain rather than our hormones. Japan and China could settle their differences in a diplomatic manner where both would look like winners rather then keep this childish bickering up. This is a waist of time, resources and opportunities. Sadly, reason, good will, wisdom and compromise only come into minds of the leaders and masses once it is to late. Why we had the first world war from 1914till 1918. Followed by a second one only 21 years later. Both could have been avoided easily. However, the leaders of that era where all to arrogant. They had to much ego and not to much to much intelligence nor any wisdom. Do we really want to escalate this? Neither sides are right nor wrong here.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Potsdam Declaration, which was made on July 26, 1945 by the leaders of the Allied Forces and ACCEPTED by the defeated Japanese Empire, clearly stated that the after WW2 Japan has sovereignty over nothing more than its four main islands

Everyone must understands this chronologically. A few days ago I posted this as the reply to fw360 but still the document in 1945 is used here. I will post the part of the last reply again.

The Potsdam Declaration, and Cairo Declaration functioned as a preparatory documents for San Francisco peace treaty if we look back chronologically on these documents, after allies extracted WW2 all responsibilities of Japan at the International Military Tribunal for the Far East between 1946 May 3rd and1948 November 12th organized by the allies.The 1068 people got a capital punishment and other penalties, then finally in 1951, Japan and the world reached the peace treaty in San Francisco. So fw360 is talking about is before SF treatment. SF treatment #2 lists what Japan has lost,or separated from #3 lists what Japan may keep or brought back to Japan such as Takeshima. The some of islands became the under rule of allies such such as Okinawa prefecture. China was one of allies but said nothing and accepted the SF treaty then. Okinawa main island and all other islands were occupied by US, during the occupation, China said nothing, then they were returned by USA to Japan in 1972.Again, China said nothing.

Since Japan confirmed in1895 Shincho(China then)These are no one`s island.May be long time ago some one might have discovered or using temporarily, that was not registered. Japan made it as part of Okinawa prefecture. Japan knows China admitted Senkaku was Japan. In fact,in1919 Japan received an appreciation letter from China when some Chinese fish men were saved by Japanses people after the shipwreck around Senkaku islands, the letter from Chinese government stated as within a Japan territory. I saw Jinmin Nippo(Chinese major news paper)on 1953 Jan.8. It stated Senaku Japan. and many maps published China 54 58 63 68, till the potential natural gas was found.

China said ancient time? That means NOTHING based on the internatinal law when we talk about sovereignty.

The judicial precedent in an international law. Island of Palmas Case.

1)The title by geographical approachability does not have a meaning in the international law.

2) Discovery itself is immature origin of rights to obtain a sovereignty in international law which is inchoate title.

3) When a foreign country begins to use realistic sovereignty and a discovery country does not protest, the title which uses sovereignty is only larger than the title of discovery.

With out this kind of guide lines and, if the China doctrine works, from now on any country may say , 370 years ago we were here,,,this is ours. The world today can not be kept the order.

China took a control of Paracel Islands in1974,then,after the US left from Philipin,China built their military base on Spratly Islands , China promulgated an unilateral teritorical water law in 1992 at Senkaku area as a self declaration saying Senkau is China!!!China has been showing their presence in Asian water.Even since 2011 November, China has established a autonomous Okinawa committee to make Okinawa one day as China since they are saying long time ago, Ryukyu was the part of China.

Ask how many Okinawans want to study Chinese and be part of China. We do not need any more Uighur ,Tibet kind of issues any more. Taiwan and Okinawa will not be China! Many countries are intimidated by Sinocentrism.Today Okinawans are living as Japaneses. If China forces their baseless law for Senkaku. Sue Japan. Senkaku has recognaized as Japan based on SF treaty and the International law today.The world can make sure if China is right or Japan is right. China must solve the issue at ICJ now instead of sending some military.

The world would not allow make Senkaku is the stepping stone of Okinawa it self becoming China. Since Senkaku is Okinawa prefecture, if China takes over Senkaku, it makes sense that other Okinawan islands becoming China one day. We must stop this epidemic now.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It doesn't matter who started it: Japanese said the Chinese, Chinese said the Japanese, and the USA has been meddling all along. The USA actually is the origin of all troubles of that set of islands since 1900. Taking no sides? Then why are you so busy moving the chess on the board?? Time to reach a solution, Chinese and Japanese are both smart people, somebody should propose a talk to settle the interests.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I can't agree more with michikokada, it will be very stupid to fight at home, Asia is the home for China and Japan.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@michikokada The origin of all troubles isn't the USA - but the East Asian mentality of the thugs Japan has elected as their leaders, and the thugs that rule China unelected. The Chinese people didn't choose those thugs, but the Japanese people chose theirs. So actually, Japan's image is taking the damage.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@thywillbedone I don't see this happen. Japan will simply become a 3rd world country. Hell, outside of the bigger cities it already looks like 3rd world country.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The chinese people remembers these out-of-the-way rocks in the sea but does not remember Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.

Please, study the story!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiananmenSquareprotestsof1989

0 ( +2 / -2 )

i'm a bastard of this world (in the english sense of the word) and i'm on no ones side. The logical thing to do would be to kill all old wounds and forge the future. Unfortunately , something in the past prevents that. Who cares about what your great-grand parents did to each other ? i don't

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan history Professor documented that Diaoyu belongs to China:

http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/diaohist.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

bullshits, they don't give a damn about the islands. They want oil,gas,rare earth under the ocean. Think the world would let China take all?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

For Nigelboy, a quick note: China did send their claim officially to U.N. a few days ago. Actually China wanted to sit down and discuss this issue; it was Japan who refused. Chinese experts are saying if Japan can be forced to come to the negotiation table, then China can chalk it off as a win for this round of struggle. They feel are the victims on this deal, as a result of mis-handling (to include Senkaku) by USA during the 1972 transfer of Okinawa. Then, USA steps away saying she has "no position on the ownership", which was again repeated by US Defense Minister a few days ago in Tokyo. Many in China think that US did it intentionally to cause trouble between China and Japan.

fw360

False. The application and request were for Commission on the Limits of Continental Shelf which is a separate claim. Although their request extends beyond the current median line between Senkaku and Chinese mainland, their attempt will of course be rejected simply because it was ruled in the recent ITLS case between Myanmar and Bangladesh that median line will supercede when overlapping EEZ occurs.

As in regards to the rest of your post, the apology business as well as the interpretation of Potsdam and post war treaty was covered by ad nauseum so I suggest you read Chamkun's post above.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I say let's just nuke or death ray the islands, blow the oil deposits and tell each side to stfu. Territorial expansion or dominance means nothing if you don't have the money to care for it and your populations and cultures are dying off because of neglect. All this is like fighting for crumbs while the entire pie is beginning to succumb to mold (death).

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I say let's just nuke or death ray the islands, blow the oil deposits and tell each side to stfu. Territorial expansion or dominance means nothing if you don't have the money to care for it and your populations and cultures are dying off because of neglect. All this is like fighting for crumbs while the entire pie is beginning to succumb to mold (death).

You must find the real CAUSE of this problem. Japan/Noda is trying to deny its Surrender conditions in the treaties, and by doing so, it reignites the wounds caused by Japan pre and during ww2.

Your own history Professor documented that Diaoyu island belong to China

http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/diaohist.html

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It is physically obvious that the islands are the South Eastern extant of the Japanese archipelago. Historically it could be another matter which could involve Japaneses imperialism. A touchy political subject for the Japanese. I would be interested to see some historical documentation on the subject of human occupation of the isles.

One thing that is pretty apparent, is the flexing of China's muscle in the region. An obvious grab of resources.

The situation mobilizes the flag wavers, and nationalism. Never a good thing at anytime.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

mano2012

Your beloved Professor Inoue is a reknown Maoist and most of the PRC claims including yours are based on his thesis although he admits that he have no knowlege on mainland china history.

Good luck in supporting that claim at ICJ if it ever happens.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There is no need to go to ICJ. the Diaoyu islands belong to China. Again this is about Japan trying to deny its surrender treaties and showing its arrogance, re: pre and during ww2, but Japan is not realizing that WE ARE in 2012!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@ Mano2012/... Didn't read your post before commenting. Thanks for the Link.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Your own history Professor documented that Diaoyu island belong to China

And yet Chamkun post above basically refutes it almost perfectly.

Here's some info mano2012. In Japan, there are believe it or not, conflicting views about the soverignty of Senkaku's where it can be debated.

In China, such views are immediately censored.

http://www.j-cast.com/2012/08/27144095.html?p=all

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So China can do no right and japan can do no wrong............................. with a mind set like this, and you wonder why this crisis is getting out of control ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

mano2012 There is no need to go to ICJ. the Diaoyu islands belong to China

Really?The you think. Why do I see the many maps from China? Why Jiminnippo printed Senkaku Japan? That is not an opinion but people can take them as the statement.Why China sent letters sayin Senkaku Japan. These are an actual proofs of reflection that how China used to think. Tell us why you can ignore these facts?

That why let us find out!! I said was instead of China send their military, The world include many Chinese as well prefer to solve the issue at ICJ.

Your own history Professor documented that Diaoyu island belong to China

One of the opinions. I accept the fact that there are many opinions in Japan as a free country. But his point of view is not the words of god. If you point out this individual is in Japan, I know many Chinese agreed Senkaku is Japan. This Chinese business woman had her own study based on only the CHINESE documents then put those documents on her web site which is being subscribed to over 100,000 readers in China. Sadly since Chinese government controls the information in China and pressured on her, as a result, this site has gone around Aug.26 2012.

There are many kind of opinions. Opinions and a fact is not the same.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

While people here think that China is bullying around, but the reading I got is the most of the populace in China feel that they have been "insulted" again by the "nationalization" of Senkaku and they are now being forced to take a stand.

Chamkun stated: "China was one of allies but said nothing and accepted the SF treaty then. Okinawa main island and all other islands were occupied by US, during the occupation, China said nothing, then they were returned by USA to Japan in 1972.Again, China said nothing."

That is NOT true, as I explained before. China objected in both cases. (a) On Aug 15 and Sep 18 of 1951 PRC published statements denouncing the treaty, stating that it was illegal. PRC did not sign the treaty. (b) On the 1972 transfer of RyuKyu administration from US to Japan, both PRC and ROC denounced its inclusion of Diaoyu. There were demonstrations in the streets. Actually the current president of ROC, Mr. Ma, was one of the student leaders in those demonstrations.

Furthermore, Article 3 of the SF Treaty did mention RyuKyu Islands. But the issue here is exactly that: China argues that Diaoyu/Senkaku is NOT part of RyuKyu.

I am no expert on international law. But, in terms of proof of the ownership, while Japan can quote chapter and verse, China claim they can do the same or more by using references to international and marine-time laws... based on many articles and discussions I have read.

The bottom line is: Actually I agree with Chamkun that this should be discussed and argued in the UN and settle this once for all… instead of military confrontation. I hope they listen to us.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Chamkun stated: "China was one of allies but said nothing and accepted the SF treaty then. Okinawa main island and all other islands were occupied by US, during the occupation, China said nothing, then they were returned by USA to Japan in 1972.Again, China said nothing."

fw360

You're deflecting. What Chamkun meant was either ROC or PRC protesting the soveignty of Senkaku by means of diplomatic correspondences especially ROC who still had an embassy in U.S., and or issuing a statement claiming soverignty by both before, during, and after the signing of the Treaty.

The mere fact that both ROC and PRC kept completely silently on the matter for decades even issuing their own maps recognizing Senkaku as Japanese territory using Japanese names before the discovery of the underwater resources by U.N. clearly indicates that Japan did in fact incorporate them under the concept of terra nullius.

The fundamental problem with these pro-China argument is that their whole argument is based on the unproven false premise that their governments at that time (1895~1970) knew that the island was theirs and are trying to come up with every excuse in the book to come up with reasons why they didn't assert their claim during that period. From an international law perspective, that doesn't work. For a common person with basic logic, China's claim for Senkaku's in 1971 is "HOW CONVENIENT.".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Nigelboy - - I am confused... maybe need some education.

China objected in both cases. (a) On Aug 15 and Sep 18 of 1951 PRC published statements denouncing the San Francisco Treaty, stating that it was illegal. PRC did not sign the treaty. (b) On the 1972 transfer of RyuKyu administration from US to Japan, both PRC and ROC denounced its inclusion of Diaoyu. There were demonstrations in the streets. Actually the current president of ROC, Mr. Ma, was one of the student leaders in those demonstrations.

You, and Chamkun, are saying the those objections do not count under international law?!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

fw360

The first objection was about PRC not being a party to the Treaty of Peace which was caused as a result of different opinions among the U.N. members to which government entity to represent China. It was decided that neither will participate and that Japan work on a separate treaty with ROC.

The second objection is AFTER the discovery of underwater resources so the term "HOW CONVENIENT" applies here.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

China argues that Diaoyu/Senkaku is NOT part of RyuKyu.

Fw360, you are certainly correct on this. The Diaoyu islands were never part of Ryukyu Kingdom which was a tributary state of China.

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Koji-Taira/2119

The China-Japan Clash Over the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands

"The acknowledged boundary between China and Ryukyu until the demise of the Ryukyu Kingdom was somewhere in the sea east and south of the Diaoyu Islands (west and north of the Ryukyu Islands). This Sino-Ryukyuan boundary became a Sino-Japanese boundary when Japan took over Ryukyu and proclaimed it Okinawa Prefecture in 1879."

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

This Chinese business woman had her own study based on only the CHINESE documents then put those documents on her web site which is being subscribed to over 100,000 readers in China. Sadly since Chinese government controls the information in China and pressured on her, as a result, this site has gone around Aug.26 2012.

Very true. Here's the paper back in '53 saying that Senkaku is part of Okinawa.

http://blog-imgs-56.fc2.com/m/i/x/mix2ch/62ec6f0d.jpg

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China objected in both cases. (a) On Aug 15 and Sep 18 of 1951 PRC published statements denouncing the San Francisco Treaty, stating that it was illegal. PRC did not sign the treaty. (b) On the 1972 transfer of RyuKyu administration from US to Japan, both PRC and ROC denounced its inclusion of Diaoyu. There were demonstrations in the streets. Actually the current president of ROC, Mr. Ma, was one of the student leaders in those demonstrations.

And that's absolutely correct too.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Fw360, you are certainly correct on this. The Diaoyu islands were never part of Ryukyu Kingdom which was a tributary state of China.

It was terra nullius until Japan (Okinawa) incorporated them in 1895.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ROC and PRC kept completely silently on the matter for decades even issuing their own maps recognizing Senkaku as Japanese territory

And that is wrong. The fact is no country in the world recognized Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971. Not ROC, not PRC, not USA and not even Japan itself.

The fact is Japan did comply with the Japanese Instrument of Surrender and ceded the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands after 1945. That is the reason why Japanese who visited Ryukyu must have their Japanese passport stamped at the Ryukyu immigration between 1945 to 1971.

And that is the reason why the Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands can't even be found in any map of Japan either published in Japan or other nations in the world between 1945 to 1971 such as this one:

http://retromaps.tumblr.com/image/30107477891

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And that's absolutely correct too.

Correct but completely irrelevant. as indicated on my post at Sep. 20, 2012 - 05:52AM JST

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Foreign Minister Seiji Maehara on Tuesday cited China's official People's Daily as describing — on Jan. 8, 1953 — the Senkaku Islands as part of Japan's territory.

The description indicates China's current territorial claims to the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea are "groundless," Maehara told the Upper House foreign policy and defense committee.

The People's Daily described the Ryukyu Islands as "dispersed between the northeastern part of our country's Taiwan and the southwestern part of Japan's Kyushu Island" and as including the Senkaku Islands as well as the Sakishima Islands, Maehara said.

"It is clear that the Senkaku Islands are inherent Japanese territory," he said.

Maehara also noted that a world atlas published in China in 1960 specified the Senkaku Islands as part of Okinawa Prefecture.

China and Taiwan began to make territorial claims to the Senkaku Islands around 1970 as oil resources in the area attracted attention.

Tension between Japan and China has grown bitter since a Chinese fishing boat collided with Japan Coast Guard cutters near the islands Sept. 7.

http://blog-imgs-56.fc2.com/m/i/x/mix2ch/62ec6f0d.jpg

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20100929a5.html

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

And that is wrong. The fact is no country in the world recognized Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971. Not ROC, not PRC, not USA and not even Japan itself.

FALSE

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E6%97%A5%E5%A0%B11953-03-18.jpg

http://utukusinom.exblog.jp/13406509/

http://richter.pixnet.net/blog/post/18881937

http://richter.pixnet.net/album/photo/93443398

http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka44/ryoshu-1961/08.jpg

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The fundamental problem with these pro-China argument is that their whole argument is based on the unproven false premise that their governments at that time (1895~1970) knew that the island was theirs

In the following imperial rescript of the Qing dynasty which was earlier than 1894, the Diaoyu islands was awarded to a Qing official by the Empress Dowager.

http://i46.tinypic.com/312viqg.jpg

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

FALSE

Then please tell me what countries in the world recognized Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971.

If Japan recognized Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971, why is it that Japanese must have their Japanese passport stamped at the Ryukyu immigration when they visited Ryukyu between 1945 to 1971?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Then please tell me what countries in the world recognized Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands as Japanese territory between 1945 to 1971.

Apparently ROC and PRC according to those maps.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Apparently ROC and PRC according to those maps.

Is Japan even mentioned in those maps?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

In the following imperial rescript of the Qing dynasty which was earlier than 1894, the Diaoyu islands was awarded to a Qing official by the Empress Dowager.

http://www.canon-igs.org/column/security/20120627_1394.html

It appears the validity of the documents are questioned by both Japan and Chinese scholars.

Imperial script with no specific dates other than year and month. Herbs harvested in one of the islands? Please. And all this activities were going on by Chinese when the Japanese government was surveying the islands at that time. Please.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Is Japan even mentioned in those maps?

On some of them. Yes. The ROC one in particular.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It appears the validity of the documents are questioned by both Japan and Chinese scholars.

If you can prove it wrong by any scientific way, by all means!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

On some of them. Yes. The ROC one in particular.

Where exactly?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Well like the Russian say, "we control them". Japan has possession and the ONLY way Red China will get them is by force. China can make all of the threats they want. Chinese can threaten us with nuclear fire.

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Senkaku, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender" with respect to Winston Churchill a leader I have always admired. His words minus one are still true today. From his speech to parliament June 1940.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Like I said, while Japan can quote chapter and verse, China claim they can do the same or more by using references to international and marine-time laws... based on many articles and discussions I have read.

This should be discussed and argued in the UN and be settled once for all... instead of military confrontation. Hope both sides have the inteligence and internal political dynamics to come to this conclusion.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Washington has a security alliance with Tokyo and Panetta appealed to both sides to lower the temperature.

Americans have no stomach for a confrontation with China. Japan has no capacity for a confrontation with China. Washington will remain neutral for as long as possible and try to drag it out until after the election at least.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It looks like Communist Chinese Defense Minister is about to declare war on Japan. How serious he was? He may be itching to use new weapons made with technology they stealing from American to Japan. That’s why I prefer to have Nuclear Weapon for Japan rather than bully by Communist. Japan must free from any chains tied to country constitution after WWII. Now time has change and Japan must stand up firmly on its own feet. We don't need to declare and boast for that but we need to prepare for to protect our nation. I bet, American will stay in neutral and urge Japan to negotiate with Communist Government if even Communist Chinese Navy and Army invaded Senkaku Islands and Okinawa. I'm totally agreed with telecasterplayer. US can’t be trusted and won’t be protected Japan because no US companies want war with Communist China. Money is important than friendship. So having Nuclear Weapon is only option to keep Japan peacefully in future.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I wonder if there is any precedent or legal concept of "co-ownership" at the sovereignty level?? Maybe Japan and China can co-own this island and they will be responsible for both the expenses and benefits.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Another aspect of this perplexes me... I am sure Japan has shown to US all the facts/references that support the Japanese ownership, then why US keeps on stating "America has NO position on the sovereignty issue" on these islands??

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Another aspect of this perplexes me... I am sure Japan has shown to US all the facts/references that support the Japanese ownership, then why US keeps on stating "America has NO position on the sovereignty issue" on these islands??

United States as a matter of policy does not take a position on the territorial dispute. This statement is repeated time and time again on any territorial dispute.

However, U.S. does refer to them as "Senkaku".

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I wonder if there is any precedent or legal concept of "co-ownership" at the sovereignty level?? Maybe Japan and China can co-own this island and they will be responsible for both the expenses and benefits.

It's not the "worth" of the island that Japan and China wants. If you look at the map, what China wants is the Japan's side of the median line between China's mainland and Senkaku in East China Sea. As it stands now, there a 6 gas offshore gas fields operated by China on her side of the median line.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

i dont know WHY THEY CARE ABOUT THESE SMALL ISLANDS

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BTW whatever happened to all those Chinese fishing boats, you know, the new Mongolian invasion fleet.

Did the PRC order them back or did they get lost?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan should push back. Japan will not give up the Senkaku islands. China is truly a cowardly country trying to steal the islands by threat of military force. Let they try and take it. China will back down. They know that they will lose. The U.S. and the rest of the world will back Japan if China tries anything because if Japan fails, then the rest of the world will follow.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

the way china acts recently to show off it has been quietly the most powerful country now , not only with japan but with most of the member of Asean china does the same way . with this too bad behavior of china , japan should not give any charity to china , i believe that Japan should be the winner in case of war with idiot china , we are vietnam , we experienced that IDIOT china does not know how to fight at war , its idiot is a really loud sound show off , skilled to bully , experienced to frighten the weaker and smaller . its last war with vietnam , its left dead bodies of its troops in vietnam more than ten times the # it reported to the world , that is why vietnam look down on china military even though vietnam is poorer and weaker the IDIOT china . but japan is much different , experienced of war , strongest mind , real patriot soldiers not like idiot china , its soldier to joint the military for food , if not the soldiers ' family get starve . i wish war to come , and come to the Asean too then we have chance to see clearly IDIOT CHINA AT WAR , and let it gets pay with high priced for its too ugly attitude

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It's not the "worth" of the island that Japan and China wants. If you look at the map, what China wants is the Japan's side of the median line between China's mainland and Senkaku in East China Sea. As it stands now, there a 6 gas offshore gas fields operated by China on her side of the median line.

My question is on co-ownership. (Something like the New York / New Jersey Port Authority co-owned by NY and NJ.) If somehow this can arranged and agreed upon, they would have overlapped EEZs and shared benefits. And UN can determine who should have how many percent share of the entity based on the facts/references/arguments presented by each side. (And this model can be applied to the disputed islands in South China Sea.)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I believe the global economy is too fragile (sick Europe, teetering US, lost Japan, decelerating China, double-inflation India, etc) to have any major military conflict... without plunging the whole world into hellish depression.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The USA actually is the origin of all troubles

Funny, many would say that it's China or Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My question is on co-ownership. (Something like the New York / New Jersey Port Authority co-owned by NY and NJ.) If somehow this can arranged and agreed upon, they would have overlapped EEZs and shared benefits. And UN can determine who should have how many percent share of the entity based on the facts/references/arguments presented by each side. (And this model can be applied to the disputed islands in South China Sea.)

Well. Since China has the offshore rigs on their side, an offer from China to have co-ownership of those current rigs would help facilitate your idea.

But then again, I sincerely doubt China is capable of being that diplomatic.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"we experienced that IDIOT china does not know how to fight at warm

Am I the only one who is worried about the number of Japanese and chinese who keep talking about how they would win a war against the other, and belittling the other side.

Does anyone see that as a good thing? Are the people who engage in it young and haven't seen or heard anything about what happens in wars?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The strong arguments from both side are becoming one of political tools before elections. In China, new president will be assigned in meantime Japan is getting into a lower election mode. I mean it's just performance. Whether the historical track records that they're claiming are true, it doesn't matter. I hope politicians are under the unofficial talks to settle this dispute.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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