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China warns of strong measures in Japan island spat

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Senkaku islands belong to Japan, we are not going to just hand them over to Chinese thugs. If the 100 yen shops and their like run out of stuff then too bad. If the PRC gets these islands they will demand more.

12 ( +22 / -9 )

Where is the UN in this? Time to step up and solve this before it escalates into the danger zone.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Watch you are asking for communist China! Not only Japan, the whole world is discussing at your bullies behavior.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Stop the bullying tactics China.Senkakus islands belongs to Japan.The Scarborough shoal islands belongs to the philippines.Just respect the international waters laws.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

It is already in the danger zone, IT HAS BEEN IN THE DANGER ZONE. The Chinese are going all out of control. Also, it already in the forecast by analyst world wide that China's move to isolate itself from the world protocols is a call that will have a dramatic change in attitude by investors and future investors. Now, let's remember that the companies that are investing in China now are waiting till their contract runs out and afterward they are taking their contracts to other countries (if not already) like the Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam, Indonesia, India and South Korea. Just keeping some of the contracts for the 100 yen stores and toys. As for this issue on the islands, China doesn't want to accept that the island are Japans and have been sold rightfully to the Japanese government. This will not change. Get used to it.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Let's give them what they both want: a kick in the ass and a one-way ticket to all those crooks.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Just you try and dare China and watch and regret as the world condemns your actions of violence against Japan. These islands belong to Japan and its about time these bullies stop trying to take other countries lands by force!

3 ( +11 / -8 )

What an amazing collection of loud mouthed propaganda......

Sure, Japan should return to the only tadition it has, butchering other people....

How many times has Japan attacked other countries? How often has Japan been attacked by other countries?

You people are really funny... you want a war? No problem, the Chinese might just be the ones to pick on.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

China is obviously absolutely determined to take over the East and South China Seas by force. Too bad the world isn't going to sit idly by and let them.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

have the chinese been taking lessons from NK?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What an amazing collection of loud mouthed propaganda......

I agree. Its amazing that the communist chinese government can offer public pronouncements like the one above whilst keeping a straight face. Its clear they have no idea how a civilized government works.

You people are really funny... you want a war? No problem, the Chinese might just be the ones to pick on.

Nobody wants a war. On the other hand I think the international community is sick and tired of the communist chinese government stealing the land of other countries, engaging in corporate espionage under the guise of being a "student" and flouting patent laws to the tune of billions in lost revenue for the rightful owners.

Make no mistake, a reckoning is coming for this corrupt country. Personally I can't wait.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

The CCP are desperate in trying to divert the Chinese people's attention to the Senkaku Islands. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/26/14713898-nyt-report-china-leader-wen-jiabaos-family-has-amassed-billions-in-assets-since-98

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Commies. America has your back, Japan. True.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

KariHaruka: "Just you try and dare China and watch and regret as the world condemns your actions of violence against Japan"

Last I checked it takes two to tango. Everyone blaming all this on China are fools. If anything, it was Ishihara and Japan that set off the gun earlier this year. Now BOTH parties are acting the fools, Ishihara saying he doesn't care if there's war with China, as but one example, and China rattling its sabres as it's doing.

This isn't a one-way street, folks.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Smith for there to be a conflict Red China has to be the aggressor. Japan needs to make positive claim on these islands.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

smithinjapanOct. 27, 2012 - 09:09AM JST

"KariHaruka: "Just you try and dare China and watch and regret as the world condemns your actions of violence against Japan"

Last I checked it takes two to tango. Everyone blaming all this on China are fools. If anything, it was Ishihara and >Japan that set off the gun earlier this year. Now BOTH parties are acting the fools, Ishihara saying he doesn't care if >there's war with China, as but one example, and China rattling its sabres as it's doing.

No the fools are people who don't know that Chinese activists first arrived at the Senkakus in 1996 while Ishihara first brought up the Senkakus in April of 2012.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Japan should not repeat another incidents similar to Mukden Incident on September 18, 1931. Why not peace for this coming x'mas. No incidents.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Regardless of your point of view this is serious and china 'will' do whatever they have to. I do blame Japan for this. They have picked a fight with the biggest kid in the playground and now he is ready to fight, but Japan is hiding behind their friends. I am not gonna comment on who owns these islands, but Japan's actions towards the ownership of these islands was aggressive and provocative.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

YuriOtani: "Smith for there to be a conflict Red China has to be the aggressor. Japan needs to make positive claim on these islands."

BS, Yuri. You post some of the most aggressive anti-China/anti-Korean posts on this site. That makes YOU the aggressor, and proves exactly what I was talking about -- it takes two. Stop playing the victim as Japan always does (I notice you now stand behind all of Japan and not just the Ryukyus today!) and admit that you cannot have a conflict without at least two parties.

What's a "positive claim"? War? How is that positive? I know you always call for war between Japan and China or South Korea, so who exactly is the aggressor, Yuri? Ishihara started this whole thing, and China is reacting, very poorly I might add. Japan OR China upping the ante will have the other responding in turn. Ergo, once again, it is not a one way straight. To say or act like this is all China's doing and Japan waging war would be "Red China"'s fault is both hypocritical and ridiculous.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Disillusioned: " I do blame Japan for this. They have picked a fight with the biggest kid in the playground and now he is ready to fight, but Japan is hiding behind their friends."

Exactly! But people like Yuri, while demanding war and 'positive claims' say it's all China's fault and act like Japan is the victim. Okinawans (or Okinawan-born) people like Yuri only earlier this week were holding up banners demanding the US get out of Japan ("No base, no rape"!) but today are silent as crickets when you get close because they are, as you rightly pointed out, very much in need of and are hiding behind the US military. Ishihara, if he had his way, would have the US military out while demanding their defense if worse came to worst with China.

China is acting poorly, in response to Japan acting poorly. Both are little children in the playground you mention, and all because of a few rocks in the sea.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

If the willing Japanese will remember that it was the militarists who led Japanese to WWII and the un-happy ending of un-conditional surrender. Mr. Ishihara, the self-proclaimed leader of present day militarists, is leading Japan, unwittingly, down the similar path. Historical lessons are meant to serve mankind. I hope they still do in Japan. That said, it is really stupid for both China and Japan to drop the warm relationship that resulted in booming trades for the past 30 years with benefits to both nations. Only statesmen from both side can make it work again - but Mr. Ishihara is not one of them.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I'm tired of hearing that Japan was provocative in transferring ownership of the islands. A transfer of ownership is not an act of aggression because it changes nothing. The islands are still under Japanese control and being defended either way. An act of aggression would be sending warships to the islands or building on them something Japan has not yet done. Japan has no reason to be the aggressor since it already controls the islands. The aggressor is clearly china.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

US provides military so Japan does not have to change its article 9 constitution. I believe Japan is a strong country and can take on any gigantic country anytime in history like the soviet union. But I believe japan should continue to channel their strength into fruitful work as it has done post WWII in technology, trade self development. Both Japan and china should find diplomatic solution because war just brings destructions, wasting resources, lives and time.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

-1 Good Bad YuriOtaniOCT. 27, 2012 - 06:58AM JST Senkaku islands belong to Japan, we are not going to just hand them over to Chinese thugs. If the 100 yen shops and their like run out of stuff then too bad. If the PRC gets these islands they will demand more.

You do realize that Japan make junk 50 years ago? If you work in Bloomberg, or standard charter bank, 60 % of their work force from china.. They all graduate from top university in uk and USA.. 10 years ago china was making junk.. But those times has pass.. They start from below and work their way up.. Just like Japan toyota made junk car and now good quality car... Most anti china prefer to focus on negative side rather than the whole picture...

And for senkaku island, both side have good claim to it.. But since it's control by Japan, so it's belong to Japan. But it doesn't stop the Chinese for claiming them.. Who cares rite.. The island is under Japan control, what more do you want? Same goes to diaoyu and kuril..nthose island are not control by Japan and yet Japan claim them...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Japan aint no saint in all this but China is off its friggin rocker!

Add in all the other stupid chinese claims around the far east & SE Asia & if China ever starts up its military the rest of the world will need to be ready to put China out of our collective misery!

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Right, someone please explain to me the ridiculous situation at hand! The islands were owned by Japaneses people, right? Where were the protests when this transaction happened? Why was this ridiculous situation not nutted out then? It is like a person bought a restaurant from someone significant then a group turn up a years down the track and say 'Sorry, this restaurant belongs to us (due to a previous history beyond your control), so move along.' How the hell would you feel as the present restaurant owner? Get a grip China and Japan: China, you are no longer in a feudal playground (wake up and get with the new world order or get left behind) and Japan stop throwing stones in a playground that could really set China in the direction of (we will never forgive or forget). Too many idiots at the helm on both sides and not enough true leaders who consider their actions!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China is not communist. Stop referring it as such.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Add in all the other stupid Chinese claims around the far east & SE Asia & if China ever starts up its military the rest of the world will need to be ready to put China out of our collective misery!

Perhaps that is what Mr. Ishihara had in mind when he stirred up the islets issue and secretly wishes U.S. would be dragged into war with China through the U.S.-Japanese Joint Security Act and drop two nuclear bombs like she did at the end of WWII except this time on China. That would be wishful thinking, us Americans do have world peace in mind and are not that stupid.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ TumbleDry:

Have you looked at the definition of the Chinese government? Please educate me in regards to this issue. If the Chinese government is not communist then it must be.................. Please complete this sentence for me as I would like to be educated.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

darknuts: "I'm tired of hearing that Japan was provocative in transferring ownership of the islands..."

Well, as radical wingers are fond of saying if they don't like what they read and can't come up with a response, "If you don't like it, leave". No one's forcing you to read the things you don't like, but the fact remains that Japan DID provocate the current sour relations, like it or not, or legal or not.

Poo in a can: "Have you looked at the definition of the Chinese government? Please educate me in regards to this issue. If the Chinese government is not communist then it must be."

My guess is that TumbleDry was either being sarcastic, or was pointing out the fact that China is really only 'communist' in name, but actually quite a capitalist nation when it comes down to it. Sure, there's no election process, but beyond that it's not really 'socialist' either, according to the definition.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Smithinjapan

it was Ishihara and Japan that set off the gun earlier this year.

What is a problem that Japan buys the land from a Japanese land owner?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Ossan: "No the fools are people who don't know that Chinese activists first arrived at the Senkakus in 1996 while Ishihara first brought up the Senkakus in April of 2012."

Wow, and you talk about 'fools' in your post? Yeah yeah.. the first time Ishihara EVER brought up the Senkakus was 1996.. haha! Sorry, my friend, that's the first time he brought up the issue of BUYING them. Shame you don't know the difference.

Ossan: "Too bad the world isn't going to sit idly by and let them."

Actually, what's 'too bad', for sure, is that the world can't stop them if they want to take the islands.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

darknuts: "Japan has no reason to be the aggressor since it already controls the islands. The aggressor is clearly china."

So I just want to clarify -- Japan controls the islands so they belong to Japan, right? and therefore they are not the 'aggressor'? That's funny, because when you point out how South Korea controls, administers, and even LIVES ON Dokdo or how Russia does the same with the Kuriles, Japanese freak out and say, "It's not the same!" or, "They are the aggressor, we the victim!", etc. So which is it?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There are 100s of nation behind Japan...

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Resurfaced: "Now, let's remember that the companies that are investing in China now are waiting till their contract runs out and afterward they are taking their contracts to other countries (if not already) like the Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam, Indonesia, India and South Korea."

Ah, all countries Japan colonized and/or committed atrocities in preceding and during WWII, hence a lot of the aggression directed towards Japan now, and a lot of the problems in Asia. So, 'now, let's remember' that, too.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Smith I do not demand war but think Japan should defend itself from Chinese aggression. My guess is the Peoples Republic is going to demand this or that but do nothing. They can not win a fight with Japan and or allies the USA. You know the PRC has real internal problems and they need to distract their population with nationalist crud. If it was not these islands it would be shrines, textbooks or whatever.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Didn't Japan's coast guard save almost 100 Chinese fishermen from drowning and / or burning recently?

And they are still talking?!?!?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

What is a problem that Japan buys the land from a Japanese land owner?

Because in effect what it did was upset the status quo.

The islands were owned privately but leased by the government, until that idiot Ishihara decided to stick his nose into the issue due to the leases coming up for renewal. Then he had to go and start raising the money privately to fund his idea of purchasing the islands and making them a part of Tokyo.

He forced the national governments hand into directly purchasing the islands and officially making them national vs privately held territory.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

More PRC invasion threats, time for Noda to prepare to defend Japan from the thugs in the PRC!

The PRC, if they go through with their threats may find themselves in that same position.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Has anybody ever thought that maybe it's the Japanese rightwing that wants to create this ruckus with China so that Japan can re-militarize and save its economy through defense spending and war? It's a possibility.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

TumbleDryOct. 27, 2012 - 12:12PM JST China is not communist. Stop referring it as such.

The PRC government is a single party state with the "Communist Party of China" as that single party.

So it is Communist, but it has a "Socialist market economy" meaning the Government controls all state corporations.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

realmind:There are 100s of nation behind Japan...

Can you prove that? it might be true if u change the figure from 100s to 10s. definitely brainwashed!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“If Japan continues down its current wrong path and takes more erroneous actions and creates incidents regarding the Diaoyu Islands and challenges China, China will definitely take strong measures to respond to that,” Zhang said.

So... what's the problem? China side must get some information that JP coast guard are ready to Ram/ shoot china ships so he gave warning in advance to avoid of real problem....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China is clearly the aggressor. They want to pick on smaller nations in order to establish their position. Maybe there is one "hidden aggressor" missing here. Who is the main beneficiary if a small/controlled war breaks out? If it happens China would of course loose everything, not only face, economy and power, but also open for domestic revolutions. I think it is worth considering how much the US would gain if Chinas progress is bombed back a few decades, and of course the US national debt could be diminished as compensation for taking out their entire fleet and bases around the east and souht china sea.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It's funny that most comments here does not reflect anything on the real world if you know what I mean.

The question is why Japan is visiting China in a secret manner while China probably never even think of going to Japan?

The fact China can make such statements is because Japan is feeling the pain whether you like it or not where all they do so far, we all have seen is sending ships like a walk in the park and receiving visit from Japan officials from time to time like they are desperate or something with the same outlook as mention in this article.

It's been like this over and over again and all we heard so far is Japan's economy is hitting harder than usual and China would take it as an opportunity to pressure, bully or whatsoever until they achieve their goal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TumbleDry:China is not communist. Stop referring it as such.

Why? I only agree that most Chinese are not commie, But China gov IS commie no doubt! moreover some china leaders are worse commie because they steal Chinese people's money.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I didn't hear Taiwan's voice regarding this issue for long time now. Hey! wake up, spineless KMT and sissy Ma!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Prodding, prodding prodding... The China thug government just does not stop.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapanOct. 27, 2012 - 11:03AM JST

Disillusioned: " I do blame Japan for this. They have picked a fight with the biggest kid in the playground and now he is ready to fight, but Japan is hiding behind their friends."

Exactly and Japan is still picking a fight, while hiding behind their friends.

4649JulianOct. 27, 2012 - 12:41PM JST

What is a problem that Japan buys the land from a Japanese land owner?

The legal problem is one of ultra vires. If someone tried to sell my garden to someone else, I'd have issues with it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Chinese are so sneaky to do their best to look like they are the victims. Japan is forced to make the countermeasures to fend off the Chinese aggression here. They are the aggressor and not the victim.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Are any Chinese contributing to this forum from China?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

10 years ago china was making junk.. But those times has pass..

Afraid not. I just made the mistake of buying a Chinese tablet. Very good specs on paper and cheap, but ultimately it is still junk. China should try to be more like Taiwan and raise the standards of its home brands.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Are any Chinese contributing to this forum from China?

I doubt that. Their great firewall blocks Chinese people from civilization. But they make no mistakes sending cyber spies to every corner of internet.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

WTF china think it is? And who is japan in the real world now? Bullying china keep warning one to another, is it rite or not bullish is doing that to almosr everyone?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

JoeBigsOCT. 27, 2012 - 01:09PM JST

More PRC invasion threats, time for Noda to prepare to defend Japan from the thugs in the PRC!

In theory, Japan is a legal owner. However PRC and Taiwanese ships have been come and go as they pleased. It has been many decades now. No one dare to tell them stop! Noda can not defend Japan because Japan has no credible arm forces according the constitution written by General MacArthur. Current force is good for natural disaster relief. Not for real combat.

The PRC, if they go through with their threats may find themselves in that same position.

PRC has been threatening Taiwan since 1949. I will never take their threat seriously. It is just a barking. Biting is different from barking.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So I just want to clarify -- Japan controls the islands so they belong to Japan, right? and therefore they are not the 'aggressor'? That's funny, because when you point out how South Korea controls, administers, and even LIVES ON Dokdo or how Russia does the same with the Kuriles, Japanese freak out and say, "It's not the same!" or, "They are the aggressor, we the victim!", etc. So which is it?

Good point. Let me be very clear that I think Japan should let the Dokdo issue die and just accept that they lost that land. Same thing with the Kurils. Those territories have not been under Japanese control for many decades now and it's not worth jeopardizing peace and stability over a few islands you're never going to get back. My stance is the same regarding senkakus. This notion that because some territory used to be part of a country they have the right to use force to take it back will only lead unrest and war in this region. Wars happen. Countries lose territory. It happens. Get over it. You don't hear Germany complaining about the territory it lost after the war. What if Mexico started a war to take back territory from the US? A line has to be drawn. Its unrealistic to think youre going to redraw the map to what it was 100 years ago. Asia needs to start being more mature and stop this "my island, your island" game.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

smithinjapan

I do blame Japan for this. They have picked a fight with the biggest kid in the playground and now he is ready to fight, but Japan is hiding behind their friends.

I do not believe what you said. Japan would have said and done it with out even no friends behind Japan.Because Japan has no intention to start a war with China. Sure Japan US treaty is the back bone. that I would not deny.However, the minimum responsibility of any government is to protect its sovereignty. Especially after the fish-man boat incident in 2010, That was about time that some thing needed to add as some new methodology to protect Senkaku. Last few months, I study the issue with Chinese documents as well. I see what they say. But for this case, Japan is right. After Miyakojima incident in 1871,how SHINCHO (China) did not do and what they said made it so clear.

But without going to the details of this historical story, it has been the part of Okinawa since 1895 and China did not do or say any thing till 70s. If they had known Senkaku were china, they had to declare that long long time ago. Since Senkaku has been Japan for 117 years, Japan needed to say this is Japan. If that had been private owned islands by JPN civilian Kurihara family, it would be much harder to protect it. So I can see the reason why it became a private JPN citizen property to Government property.Otherwise many JPN people could have complained that why so much TAX money to be spent for Kurihara family. If any of you own a property and it were chased by a big country, I am sure that you would be willing to sell it before it would be taken by other country or going real estate value gets bottomed out.

Do not underestimate any Chinese government intention. This small area could be one drop of blood from an ant for Japan or other part of the world. That how China has expanded the territory in years. I am sure keeping this area as Japan is a US interest as well.

Many Asians know the fact. That why, many Indians, Vietnamese, Philippines, and even a quit numbers of Taiwan people are subscribing to Japan's point of view even though they do not appear on the media. No demonstration in Taiwan like China. Only minor ones.

Even"new capital news" Chinese paper(the January 17, 2004 issue) reported "threw 20 monuments which states the islands are Chinese territory at 123 degrees 17 minutes east of longitude, ocean space, and north latitude; lat. 25 degrees 40 minutes. "When a monument is discovered 50 years and 100 years afterward, it is for appealing as "the solid evidence of the China territory in the Senkaku Islands." Since it is once said that old Chinese money was buried in the earth also when Tibet is invaded, but it is made to discover later and claims "It was ancient times to a part of China."

This is a neighbor of Japan. If the islands had been governed or owned by China as they said, they must have sent a real estate tax bill. But China never has done it to Koga Family and the latest owner Kurihara family. I can legally not see that belongs to China. They did not act as an owner country for over 100 years. If Japan did not do anything, if Japan did not say NO to China, this could happen anywhere in the world by anyone saying''We checked our history'' it seems we owned this place in 13 century, so this is ours.Get out from our land.That makes the world chaos.That why we have an international law today to avoid a conflict.

The judicial precedent in an international law. Island of Palmas Case.

1)The title by geographical approach-ability does not have a meaning in the international law.

2) Discovery itself is immature origin of rights to obtain a sovereignty in international law which is inchoate title.

3) When a foreign country begins to use realistic sovereignty and a discovery country does not protest, the title which uses sovereignty is only larger than the title of discovery.

In this case, Japan had a dry bonito factory operated by Mr Koga family between 1896 and 1941. Then evacuation for the WW2. Then after the war, it became under the control of allies as FORMER Japan. Then in San Francisco treaty article 3 states that Okinawa and all its islands became the US.They were a new owner then. I needed to have my JPN passport with US visa and $US to buy things there to see my aunt in Okinawa not Chinese visa and China money. I am sure no American thought they used Chinese islands for their shooting training. China did not think China was occupied by USA, either.

In FACT,the two Senkakus were used as the shooting training islands of USA. Then it was returned from USA between 1951 and 1972 as an owner to Japan in 1972. China never said anything. But I have seen ton of evidences in Chinese publised maps, Chinese official letter to Japan, The Official Chinese communist news paper on 1953 Jan. 8th about Senkaku Japan that they said as a story of Japan in their articles. These are how China recognized Senkaku as Japan till the OIL was found in 1968. They changed the map in early 70s.

It is clearly Japan. Now China fabricated the history that Japan took it in 1894 even in UN or putting an advertisement in US papers but Japan started a research in 1885 even though there was a circumstantial evidence in 1871 at Miyakojima incident based on SHINCHO's(China then) statement. Japan wanted to make sure the Islands as TERRA NULLIUS by the international term of law. (No ones land) Japan even before the annexation to Okinawa, asked Shincho. China admitted recently that documentation exists.

Please do not blame Japan for this real estate transaction. Sure JPN politicians are not perfect but they do their job and nothing personal. But if some one comes into a house with hostile attitude like the incident in 2010. and your a father gives the counter punch, we can not blame the farther.

Japan did not buy sovereignty of the islands that many people I talked so far has misconceptions, but the land from Kurihara san who was a willing seller. Nothing illegal about it. But how Chinese shows in 125 cities with their over reaction after that transaction, there were so many illegal actions. You know how many JPN businesses and factories were destroyed and no compensation for those many JPN business owners from Chinese government.

Japan must keep calm and no aggression but Japan needs to really determine to face to Sinocentrism for the sake of the proper balance in all Asia.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

All of the countries in Asia are just going to have to sit down and figure out a Grand Plan. This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@ darknuts

You do have a point but the problem here is that Diaoyu Islands were only under the administration of Japan and not the sovereignty. The sovereignty has always belong to China.

My position is that Japan should have not taken action to purchased the islands but instead left the status quo as it is prior to the purchase and negotiate an acceptable form of solution in the future development of the Diaoyu Islands.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Chamkun: you definitely tried very hard to mention your point, it's fine but from my point which I think the real truth is that Daoyutai isles legally belong to ROC(Taiwan). my opinion is these isles only ever belonged to JP from 1895- 1952 (or legally 1945). My points base on " Treaty of Taipei between Japan and ROC signed in Taipei on April 28, 1952., the US witnessed". I don't even want to mention the details here because no matter anyhow, both of you & I still keep each other's original thought! So nobody should waste time! But how to solve the problem? All parties involved can either have a war OR cooperate together for everything including sharing resources. My opinion is all of us should cooperate!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Poo In A Can & Yosun: Please look at the very definition of communism, read the theoretical work. China is not communist. It's a corrupto-kleptocracy.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

smithinjapanOct. 27, 2012 - 09:09AM JST Last I checked it takes two to tango. Everyone blaming all this on China are fools. If anything, it was Ishihara and Japan that set off the gun earlier this year.

Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain tried to make peace with the German's he tried so hard that he gave up lands that belonged to other nations and still it was to no avail. One can try and make peace with bullies, but in the end all they will do is take more more more.

This is the same thing the PRC is doing, they threaten their neighbors with violence if those neighbor's do not give up their lands and sea's to them. Those neighbor's have given into the PRC's hoping that that would end it,but it has not. The PRC keeps demading what is not theirs and if Japan gives into those demands they will demand even more.

If Japan gives into these threats the PRC will next demand Okinawa.

smithinjapanOct. 27, 2012 - 09:09AM JST Now BOTH parties are acting the fools, Ishihara saying he doesn't care if there's war with China, as but one example, and China rattling its sabres as it's doing.

Ishihara is not rattling his sword, he is saying "NO" to their threats and will not back down. The PRC is wrong and only a supporter of their would ever claim any different.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Yosun

I respect your opinion. But why San Francisco treaty article 3 with 48 countries approval, Senkaku was listed as something that Japan may keep but USA ruled the islands because those were recognized as Japan? I can not believe USA used as their shooting grounds if it had been Taiwan. You said the original idea. It is not the original I made up. I tried to bring up the facts. I know some facts from Taiwan exists and I know some confusing map exist which shows that belongs to Taiwan, I would not spend another long hours to tell here why that map can not be an hard evidence here.

I agree with you to solve the issue based on a cooperation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Jack SternOct. 27, 2012 - 03:03PM JST Are any Chinese contributing to this forum from China?

There are a few dozen and a few more sympathizers who dislike Japan at every turn.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Chamkun

During the time when San Francisco treaty was discussing, The US wanted to invite the ROC(Taiwan) to represent China, while the United Kingdom wished to invite the PRC as China's representative. As a compromise, neither government was invited. That's why latter on "Treaty of Taipei" was signed under the US witness. during the dangerous china civil war time (korean war was going on too), taiwan did requested the US to administrate many a international matter! Even when MacArthur invited ROC troops to co-occupy JP, ROC also requested the US to solely do it for JP's goodness and avoid of commie spread from Russia/ PRC.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@mitoguitarman: indeed time for the UN to intervene. But with a nation which dominates world economy many UN members will for sure be quite silent when there choice is asked.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ehh im sick of this stupid crap. Honestly what's China really gonna do? JCG is already there and have their ships around the islands. Wthell is the PRC gonna do? Why dont they just send some ships and have their stupid war over a bunch of uninhabited islands and ocean waters with Japan, Philipinnes, Vietnam, Korea, and all the other S Asian nations that have a problem with them already. Honestly their warnings are gonna be just complaints after a while. And what if there's not even that much resources buried beneath the South China sea?

f@ck nationalism. Globalization rules. And Multi National Corporations always win in the end.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Peaceful settlement should be unlimited fishing rights, joint exploration of gas and oil reserve, flying three nations flag on that islets. Legal ownership is powerless to stop any confrontation. It may be name only as landlord. Truth is Japan can not do much without Taiwan and PRC co-operation. They had perception that Japan was a loser of WWII.

Taiwanese fishermen have declared nothing or no one can stop them in their backyard of ancestor fishing area. Their forefathers have been fishing there for centuries.

Heal the old wound and compromise for peaceful outcome is win win for all.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Once again, those who never tire of trying to rub Japan's nose in it come out to play.

Okay, have it your way: you don't want the USA to defend Japan, or don't believe they will. Let's say that happens, then Japan will see that it's useless having a constitution that prevents it from protecting its interests against aggressive neighbours - so there goes Article 9.

Now Japan raises a standing army and - naturally enough - develops nuclear weapons. After all, China has them, so Japan's got to have them too in order to have an effective deterrent.

China's persistent aggression continues, which ramps up the right wing sentiment in Japan.

Now it only takes a spark....

Be careful what you wish for, though I don't doubt the aforementioned will be sneering at Japan whatever happens.

In this new scenario, Japan will know it's better to die with honour than to hold its manhood cheap.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Where's Gojilla when you need him?! I bet he'll settle this island debate fair and square. He'll make that island into monster island. An island where monsters can roam freely and without oppression from any form of authority. Of course some big ignorant country which shall not be named will probably declare that zone a military testing ground from Japan and authorize a full scale military invasion strategy which will result with Godzilla being pissed more than ever!

Doesn't anyone know that Japan's military has to keep up to date in order to fight monsters?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

time japan to teach china the old lesson again soon , it is the only way to help idiot china to wake up , otherwise china stupidly thinks its self is super made in china lol

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I must say China your pathetic. Your like a screaming 2 year old who cannot get Mcdonalds.

Shut-up China and stop threatening us. I am tired of China's insults and bullying on my country. We bought the islands, we own the islands, end of story. Possession is nine tenths of the law.

Causing incidents China? Your the one who sends your rusty old fishing ships into our waters which is illegal and destroy our companies in China. Your the one causing incidents daily. Japan is just sitting back and watching you chuck a hissy fit.

Keep it up, you will only ruin your reputation more...Well what's left of it. LOL!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@darknuts:

"I'm tired of hearing that Japan was provocative in transferring ownership of the islands. A transfer of ownership is not an act of aggression because it changes nothing. The islands are still under Japanese control and being defended either way. An act of aggression would be sending warships to the islands or building on them something Japan has not yet done. Japan has no reason to be the aggressor since it already controls the islands. The aggressor is clearly china."

enough said. I agree with you.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, war only determines who's left. Man,the US must be happy.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Chinese Goverment are a kind of opportunist parasite. They attack only when someone gets weak. What a shame for chinese people. Just a message for the chinese: MORE BIG THE NATION IS, MORE BIG IS THE FALL!! Japan is not alone! Chinese dummies!! Oportunist parasites must be eliminated!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

smithinjapanOct. 27, 2012 - 12:43PM JST Ossan: "No the fools are people who don't know that Chinese activists first arrived at the Senkakus in 1996 while >Ishihara first brought up the Senkakus in April of 2012."

"Wow, and you talk about 'fools' in your post? Yeah yeah.. the first time Ishihara EVER brought up the Senkakus was 1996.. haha! Sorry, my friend, that's the first time he brought up the issue of BUYING them. Shame you don't know the difference."

You;re one who brought "fools" Go ahead and prove it smith. I assume you know that the Seinensha are a yakuza related right wing group, not the Tokyo Metroplitan government. And Ishihara didn't even become governor until 1999.

Ossan: "Too bad the world isn't going to sit idly by and let them." "Actually, what's 'too bad', for sure, is that the world can't stop them if they want to take the islands."

I hope you're just as happy when China takes over the entire Korean Penninsula as well.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

AthletesOct. 27, 2012 - 08:21PM JST Heal the old wound and compromise for peaceful outcome is win win for all.

This little dance 0% to do with war wounds and 100% to do with the need for natural resources. The PRC cared nothing about the islands until it was discovered that the area may have oil and who can forget the abundante sea-life.

As the farmers in the PRC leave their rural areas in search of wealth and move into the smog filled slavelabor camps known as big cities, their government loses more agricultural food producers.

So the PRC must find more ways to feed their starving people, but they have over fished their areas and like locust must find more areas to turn to wastelands.

So for the last 15 years or so the PRC has been taking area's that do not belong to them in this effort to eat the starving masses. The PRC makes up stories claiming that some long lost relative had owned a pig farm there 200 years and now they want the land back.

Sadly the only people that do not see through this are either unable to read because their nation censors them or because they would love to be part of that dying utopian smog-filled wasteland.

TECNO.ENKAOct. 28, 2012 - 01:58AM JST Chinese Goverment are a kind of opportunist parasite.

To me I see the PRC more like locusts than parasites. The PRC invades an area, strips it clean of all all natural resources, does not up after the mess and then moves on to the next feeding ground.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

JoeBigsOCT. 28, 2012 - 06:14AM JST

This little dance 0% to do with war wounds and 100% to do with the need for natural resources. The PRC cared nothing about the islands until it was discovered that the area may have oil and who can forget the abundante sea-life.

If US is still the administrator of Islets, PRC will unlikely demand anything.There were no old wound with US. PRC has Victim mentality as Romney 43% population statics. According their perception, they have been bullied and tortured and killed before. Therefore they still have upper hand for dealing anything with Japan. Old wound is useful tool for politics.

As the farmers in the PRC leave their rural areas in search of wealth and move into the smog filled slavelabor camps known as big cities, their government loses more agricultural food producers.

It is opposite with current reality. Manufacturing is dependent on external market like EU and US. EU and US are too broke for spending. Many factory workers are going back to western inner land according PRC go west policy. Western region got more infrastructure and development funding.

So the PRC must find more ways to feed their starving people, but they have over fished their areas and like locust must find more areas to turn to wastelands.

Japan and US also have to feed their starving people. Unlike Japan, PRC is has more fertile land for harvest. They are less dependent on food import. It is 21st century. Even human can be cloned for birth. Agriculture produce can be genetically modified for expansion of output.

So for the last 15 years or so the PRC has been taking area's that do not belong to them in this effort to eat the starving masses. The PRC makes up stories claiming that some long lost relative had owned a pig farm there 200 years and now they want the land back.

effort to eat the starving masses? You mean they will make a Cannibalism as law of surviving. Native American tribes used to do it before.

PRC & Japan are a far away from Senkaku. If you are Taiwan fisherman, you will feel like someone come inside your backyard and told you not to grow your own pigs or not to pick up any fruits. Japan is also bullying the smallest boy in his own backyard.

Sadly the only people that do not see through this are either unable to read because their nation censors them or because they would love to be part of that dying utopian smog-filled wasteland.

The more bias meaning the more resentment and intolerance. Japan surrendered unconditionally in 1945. Japan by herself owned by US after that. Loser Germany is well behaved unlike Japan. Sadly unpaid hatred propaganda post will not make any difference for peaceful settlement. There will be always inflammation for meaningless confrontation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

yosun.

Thank you. Some of the things you posted, I did not know. Are some of the documentation you are talking about available to read in a public record center? I have some documents about the Takeshima issue, for example,SECSTATE 3470 Priority that MacArthur wrote to Ambassador McConaughy about Takeshima based on SF treaty article 3. But I do not have many original internal communications as an archive for the Senkaku issue.I have some copies of circumstantial evidence from China such as Jinminnippo (Chinese news paper, a government letter, maps.)

Basically how I understood an Allies general point of view about SF treaty article#2 and #3 is from the letter how the allies had their internal communication such as SECSTATE 3470. The allies had a right then on Japan because Japan accepted Potsdam declaration. At that time, except 4 major main islands of Japan. We temporarily lost everything. (You know #2 indicates what Japan loses, #3 what Japan keeps)The based on these internal communications which manifest more raw reality of the process not just he said or she said things.

If the treaty had an error then, any countries should have made an action to the allies. Because when it asserts the error invalidity of a treaty, the announcement to the country directly concerned is required of Vienna Convention method article 65. However, no Allies have done announcement of error invalidity till today in October, 2012.

I have been convinced that Takeshima and Senkaku are Japan. It goes without saying that Japan was not in the position we could not say anything about, Japan was in the position to accept the treaty.

I disagree with Korea but at least they made it into action saying Takeshima(Dokto) is Korean's in 1951 the right after the treaty had been promulgated. It make little more sense to me. I respect Korea even though, I disagree what they said.

But the case of China, they did published the government news paper on Jan. 8th 1953 which states clearly treated Senkaku is Japan. Then 1968, after the potential oil was found, suddenly they started to say Senkaku is China.It is not necessary that what I think. This is the general point of view of Japanese people that I am explaining to you for the sake of seeking a resolution. I hope at least people in Taiwan and hopefully some Chinese people who could see JPN people's point of view to begin with.

If I can confirm what you said from Taiwan's point of view, I will study. I think all human tend to speak and act the based on the information we have accumulated till this moment.I am Japaneses but I would not take any thing personally from Koreans, Chinese people. Of course, the people did illegal demonstration in last month, I hate it. But that does not every Chinese people. All information must be seen by the people. What I said in my long posting is the based on the information I have and some original letter as an archive confirmed the general point of view for SF treaty article #3.Then I concluded what I believe. The based on that , I became a believer of Takeshima, and Senkaku is Japan, NOT because I am Japanese. Many Japaneses feel the same way at least around my circle. So many Chinese or Korean think we attach this territorial issue is based on Japaneses aggression is necessary as accurate description.

Yosun, If what you said is not what you THINK or what you HEARD, what some biased media said, but, what you know is from the archive that we can find to support your information. Let us know. I am willing to elicit more truth from that information.

We as an Asian must be a problem solver not a problem creator in this area.The #2 and #3 economic countries with the involvement of #1 economic country having a war will be a real disaster. I have a mother whose leg does not move too well from the Tokyo carpet bombing in 1945. I know the war is not a game that today's generation play on X box.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japan is the biggest crybaby of Asia. Japan lost WWII and yet still holds onto opportunistic imperial era claims that it made while its neighbors were unaware of international "laws". These international "laws" were mostly established by the great colonial powers in Europe, not countries like China and Korea.

Claim on Diaoyutai Islands - 1895 (same year as First Sino-Japanese War over Taiwan) Claim on Dokdo - 1905 (same year as Russo-Japanese War over Korea)

Chance coincidence or sneaky opportunism?

Japan is lucky that it is a bunch of islands that are not so easy to invade. Otherwise it would have been divided up between the Allies like Germany. Instead, poor neighboring Korea was divided.

The Japanese should just be happy that they have their Home Islands intact and not cry about some tiny islands that belonged to other countries anyhow. Look at the large patches of territory Germany lost to the Soviet Union (forced to be given up to Poland).

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Sir_Engar

Chance coincidence or sneaky opportunism?

Complete nonsense!!!!

Claim on Diaoyutai Islands - 1895 (same year as First Sino-Japanese War over Taiwan)

Nothing to do with it. In 1871. China said China did not govern the area.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sir Edgar

If what you said is true, why China said nothing for years like Korea? I can at least respect Korea that they declared after SF treaty. But China kept silence till oil was found.While the silence, they publish a lot of things even we can find today which states Senkaku Japan.

The first time that made Japanese people knoe this issue was in 1978. They used around 100 of civilian boats with machine guns to Senkaku area. Then,Deng Xiaoping came to Japan after that incident. He was a tactful man. Japan needs that kind of politician. He calmed the situation. In other words, he extinguished fire. He was liked and respected by many Japaneses then. Then got a lot of promise from Japan for the ODA for China from Japan.For the Chinese infrastructure, Beijing Airport, Pudong Airport, the main railway lines, power plants, and steel mills were all built with Japanese ODA. I wonder how many Chinese people know these fact about JPN ODA today.

When I look back on 1978, if the over 100 boats with machine guns could leave from China for Senkaku without any knowledge of Chinese Government? It seems China left a match box then some one put a fire, China comes with a fire extinguisher.Then successfuly they extingushed it. I do not know for sure. But it seems this is a quit possible fact. Even at that time, our naive prime minster had an conversation with Deng, his suggestion was for this issue as a hot potato should be hand down to our future generation because we should focus on our future not our past. Onec Japan and China have a good relationship, we may count on our future generation's wisdom. Our naive prime minister agreed! He meant more about these 100 machine gun boats incident but today, it is considered that what they meant was the territorial issue about Senkaku. The issue was not existed but then the issue was manufactured. Then, China established the law about Senkaku controlling law in 1992. Japan thought that conversation in 1978 was even could have been a trap. It was for the future generation not 13 years after the conversation!!! It is vary sneaky. That is the one of the many reasons why Japan purchased the islands from a Japanese private owner to protect our sovereignty.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Chamkun: Thanks, actually ROC side is a little more complicated.

As you know both of ROC & PRC didn’t attend 1951 San Francisco Treaty meeting because of China civil war so later on Treaty of Taipei was signed for all related issues. But one thing Taiwan(ROC) must complain to JP is that in 1972 JP set relationship with PRC and denounced all treaties with us (seems all gave to PRC), we regarded it as JP’s betrayal to us. Anyway it’s not topic here.

The background of the disputed isles base on they were not part of Ryuku because after Japan’s forceful assertion of its authority over the Ryukyu Kingdom in 1874. Later in a letter dated Sept 22, 1885 by Nishimura Sutezo, the Okinawa Prefectural Magistrate, addressed to the JP Home Minister that the Okinawa Prefectural Magistrate requested additional instructions regarding the placement of national markers on the Diaoyutai/Senkaku Islands. So after JP got Ryuku, JP further tried to took the isles from China. And after 1895, JP got them on the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki. Thus, there is no reason to suppose that reference to Formosa in the Cairo Declaration & Potsdam Proclamation did not include “all islands appertaining or belonging to the said island of Formosa.” Moreover, by virtue of Article 2 of the San Francisco Treaty (excluding both the ROC and PRC), Japan renounced “all right, title, claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.: Lastly, the terms were reiterated in Article 4 of the 1952 Treaty of Peace between the ROC and JP which stated,

Japan has renounced all right, title and claim to Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) as well as the Spratly Islands and the Paracel Islands… all treaties, conventions and agreements concluded before December 9, 1941, between China and Japan have become null and void as a consequence of the war.

This provision completes the chain of treaties and agreements that legally require Japan to renounce its claim to Taiwan and, by implication, all the islands that appertain to or belong to Taiwan. Also as a result of this provision, the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki became nullified. Viewed together, the above treaties and agreements form the legal basis of the ROC’s claim to the disputed islands.

From PRC side, there is another story because they point to the Joint Communiqué between the PRC and JP signed in 1972 which states that Japan “adheres to stand of complying with Article 8 of the Potsdam Proclamation.” which are further confirmed by the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the PRC and Japan, signed on 1978.

Sorry but I need to say one more thing is that many Chinese and Taiwanese are thinking Japanese try to take use of gap between ROC & PRC due to china civil war to break his promise of the past for these islets.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China reserves the right to take strong countermeasures if Japan “creates incidents”

Since Japan has not created incidents in the area, China's words are, as usual, empty. The CCP policy is cheap shots, without warning or diplomacy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

ChamkunOct. 28, 2012 - 12:25PM JST

Deng Xiaoping came to Japan after that incident. He was a tactful man. Japan needs that kind of politician. He calmed the situation.

Hujingtao also visited Japan and made an joint exploration offer. When he took the office, he looked promising for sino-Japanese relation. However you are right. New generation are not wise enough as old generation. That dispute has been existed from many decades. Until 2009, Japan and China has never made noise and confrontation in public. Why not they leave it for future generation again? I am not pro PRC or pro Japan. If we concern about current economic loss, it is not worth for prolonging the conflict. Even Senkaku has oil and gas reserve, it will take at least ten or more years for well established exploration plant.

Then got a lot of promise from Japan for the ODA for China from Japan.For the Chinese infrastructure, Beijing Airport, Pudong Airport, the main railway lines, power plants, and steel mills were all built with Japanese ODA. I wonder how many Chinese people know these fact about JPN ODA today.

I have worked in Yangon(Rangoon) airport project of Myamar back in 1987-88. That project was funded by Japan for ODA. There are many pre condition for receiving funding for project. For Engineering, JAC(Japan Airport Consultant) should be hired. For Contractor, Taisei co-opeation should be awarded contract. Stainless steel have to be sourced from Nippon steel. Construction equipments needed to be sourced from Komatsu. Electrical sub stations needed to be sourced from Toshiba. All J firms are dominating the project.

After the project, there will be sharing of plane landing fee and road toll to airport. Most of the funding are soft loan, they still have to repay with teak(famous timber of Myanmar) and natural gas. ODA( Oversea Development Aid)is not one way traffic to PRC as you mentioned. Japan also got many return for infrastructure projects without competing with others.

I am not sure about Chinese from mainland. Many South East Asian know that local firms have no hope for getting sub contract or becoming supplier for Japanese funded project. Many nations still sharing their income from infrastructure with Japan. To be fair, Japan will not fund anything without her interest. It is another way of business for stable return of investment.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yosun.

Thank for the information and some point of view that I never thought of.. Let me digest it.

Besides the point, I believe you are a Taiwanese man. If not, I am sorry. I (actually millions of Japaneses people) from the bottom of our heart, we wanted to say Thank you for the heart of Taiwanese people after the earthquake and Tsunami in 2011. No country even close to match Taiwan's contribution to Japan. There many more richer countries. I am not only one feel this way. It meant to us more than I can say to you. And no matter what happens, I will not forget my gratitude to the people in Taiwan. We all learned who is the friend in Asia. Again,a human behaves mainly the based on the information and education we have accumulated. My only dream is one day, before we put everything in the history book.with many 3rd countries historians together to review 19&20th century to have one history book. Then no one tries to use the history as a super weapon. But leaning our past mistake to avoid that mistake for future. But the way it is now is because the history, we are jeopardizing our order in the Far East.

The most likely, we are going to have even more difficulty in the next few years in the Far East. But there are enough Japaneses people who can distinguish between the politics and actual human relationship. Thank you. I am sure we will have more discussion in future. I am a honest person. So I might disagree to you but I will do that respectfully disagree with you. I am glad I have this moment with you.

Thank you. Chamkun from Tokyo

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Anyhow, the islands belong to Taiwan.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Chamkun: Thank you. Chamkun from Tokyo

You are welcome! Yosun, a Taiwanese

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This island belongs to Taiwan!! Do not mistaken that as Chinese, but Taiwanese! THE TRUE REPUBLIC OF CHINA

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_of_thanks_from_ROC_consul_to_Ishigakijima_in_1920.jpg

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ossan

Thanks for your information. It's correct and it also conform to my understanding that in 1920 the Diaoyutai/Senkaku Islands belonged to JP (between 1895 to 1945).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@OssanAmericaOct. 29, 2012 - 06:18AM JST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LetterofthanksfromROCconsultoIshigakijimain_1920.jpg

As yosun said, nobody denied these islands were controlled by Japan between 1895 and 1945. What is in dispute is how Japan got it in the first place.

I just watched an NHK program tonight. There were details about many later events but nothing was mentioned in how these islands became Japanese.

If I am not mistaken, Japan has based its claim on three things:

1, First discovery of the island by a Japanese (Koga) in 1884;

2, Repeated surveys by Japanese government to ascertain the status of terra nullius;

3, Approval by the cabinet in 1895, three months ahead of the treaty of Shimonoseki, to finalize the claim.

According to China, none is valid.

1, These islands were discovered long ago. By 1884, even the French and British had been there. Senkaku came from the British name 'island of pinnacle'.

2, China had owned it up to 1895. No, they don't need documents from the Ming dynasty. There are enough official documents after 1850s for this.

One more thing, no repeated surveys had ever been carried out by Japan. There was only one survey done in 1885. The conclusion at the time can still be found. Essentially the Japanese government worried about Qing notice its move. It was deemed not worthy enough to disrupt the relationship with Qing so the matter was put aside.

3, By 1895, having won the war, the Japanese cabinet considered the time was ripe. It is interesting they still did it in secret. No public announcement was made, which China says showed Japan's sneakiness. When the treaty of shimonoseki was signed, these islands were not directly mentioned. Since Taiwan was taken by Japan, these islands, as part of Taiwan province, went along anyway.

Once again, nobody disputes Japan had them then until 1945. That it has everything to do with the treaty of shimonoseki, even though Japan denies it, makes a huge difference in how China sees the issue. The NHK program tonight talked a lot about the unfortunate coincidence of the dates that Noda picked, I don't think I heard much about the treaty.:-)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Chamkun Oct. 28, 2012 - 08:14AM JST

But the case of China, they did published the government news paper on Jan. 8th 1953 which states clearly treated Senkaku is Japan.

Let's put aside whether a newspaper article is substitute for official documents. If you manage to read that bit, maybe you can read the full paragraph if not the full article. I suppose you know that article is to call for the people of Ryuku (not Okinawa:-)) to rise up against the American oppression. Yeah, so you have every island under American control labelled as part of Ryukyu, including Amami and others that were not under Okinawa before Americans took over or have not been after the US returned them to Japan as Christmas present in 1953.

There are already people asking, in the unlikely event of Okinawa ever gains its independence again, whether Japan is ready to give up Amami simultaneously since the People's Daily once grouped them together.:-)

What do you think?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"China reserves the right to take strong countermeasures"

what rights? who authorized? who supported?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

ChamkunOct. 27, 2012 - 04:35PM JST Sure Japan US treaty is the back bone. that I would not deny.However, the minimum responsibility of any government is to protect its sovereignty.

Where does it say Japan has the sovereignty of Senkaku? Remember, in 1972, when U.S. returned Okinawa, they only gave administering rights to Japan on the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands, but no sovereignty. If China has a beef, why don't they take up the island issue with U.S.? Japan is only following the conditions set by U.S. of the agreement.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Everyboby seem's to have a" Basic View on the Sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands" . Will this spur on War? The fact that China expressed no objection to the status of the Islands being under the administration of the United States under Article III of the San Francisco Peace Treaty clearly indicates that China did not consider the Senkaku Islands as part of Taiwan. It was not until the latter half of 1970, when the question of the development of petroleum resources on the continental shelf of the East China Sea came to the surface, that the Government of China and Taiwan authorities began to raise questions regarding the Senkaku Islands. War for Oil for Sale! It looks like to me the United States should defend the "Island's"....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

kevininjapanOct. 30, 2012 - 01:21AM JST @OssanAmericaOct. 29, 2012 - 06:18AM JST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LetterofthanksfromROCconsultoIshigakijimain_1920.jpg As yosun said, nobody denied these islands were controlled by Japan between 1895 and 1945. What is in dispute >is how Japan got it in the first place. I just watched an NHK program tonight. There were details about many later events but nothing was mentioned in >how these islands became Japanese. If I am not mistaken, Japan has based its claim on three things: 1, First discovery of the island by a Japanese (Koga) in 1884; 2, Repeated surveys by Japanese government to ascertain the status of terra nullius; 3, Approval by the cabinet in 1895, three months ahead of the treaty of Shimonoseki, to finalize the claim.

According to China, none is valid.

1, These islands were discovered long ago. By 1884, even the French and British had been there. Senkaku came >from the British name 'island of pinnacle'.

The question isn't "discovery" it's making a claim and following proper international protocol top incorporate them/ Who objected in 1885?

2, China had owned it up to 1895. No, they don't need documents from the Ming dynasty. There are enough official >documents after 1850s for this.

I have yet to see any evidence to support this claim. Please provide links.

One more thing, no repeated surveys had ever been carried out by Japan. There was only one survey done in 1885. >The conclusion at the time can still be found.

Why are "repeated surveys" necessary AFTER numerous surveys were conducted to verify Terra Nullius status as you yourself pointed out?

Essentially the Japanese government worried about Qing notice its move. It was deemed not worthy enough to >disrupt the relationship with Qing so the matter was put aside.

So you want me to believe that Japan which had just defeated Qing completely in a war to the extent that they could demand Taiwan and the Pescadores and Qing would oblige, be "worried the Qing would notice" something?

3, By 1895, having won the war, the Japanese cabinet considered the time was ripe. It is interesting they still did it >in secret. No public announcement was made, which China says showed Japan's sneakiness. When the treaty of >shimonoseki was signed, these islands were not directly mentioned. Since Taiwan was taken by Japan, these >islands, as part of Taiwan province, went along anyway.

THose islamds were not mentioned because neither Qing nor Japan considered them Qing territory., If they did, Japan could point-blank demand them from Qng.

I argyument that China poses defies logic. A man has a gun to your head and tells you to habd over your wallet and watch., But decides to pull a sneaky manouver to get your socks, rather than just tell you to hand over your socks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapan, and admit that you cannot have a conflict without at least two parties. .........................................................what a revelation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

OssanAmerica Nov. 03, 2012 - 07:06AM JST Why are "repeated surveys" necessary AFTER numerous surveys were conducted to verify Terra Nullius status as you yourself pointed out?

To claim Diaoyu was terra nullius makes it hard for the Chinese to prove they were there at some times when the Japanese say their ‘10-year survey’ revealed the islands had no inhabitants. This is an absurd claim by Japan as Diaoyu is barren rock islets and no sane people would make life of living there, as the conditions were harsh. There was no such name as Senkaku in 1895. Since the Japanese name of Senkaku was originated in 1900, what name did the Japanese use in 1895? Japan used the Chinese name Diaoyu and claimed the islands as terra nullius. If it was terra nullius in 1895, why did Japanese needed to used the ancient Chinese name until 1900? No wonder Okinawa goverment refused to lease Daioyu to Noda prior to 1895, because they knew that the Diaoyu islands belong to China.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China isn't going to do anything. The U.S. Military are there with Japan doing joint exercises.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49609054/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/thousands-us-japan-troops-set-hold-drill-amid-china-tensions/#.UJRXy4bIF8E

If they do, then the U.S. will retaliate with Japan against China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If the Qing dynasty considered Diaoyu to be Qing territory, why didn't they put them down on any maps?

Look at Qing dynasty maps of China. These islands do not appear in any of them. Not one. This leads me to believe that the Qing government never considered the islands to be part of China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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