China wins support for Asia-Pacific trade proposal

How do you really have a trade agreement with a country that won't put their currency on the market?

Begood41: That might be true but can you say that the US isn't taking advantage or getting the upper hand (in the secret meetings) of the TPP?

sfjp330, maybe they will put their currency on the market. They're going to have to, or trade in foreign currency.

Never assume that China is incapable of change.

This is very positive. It's good for Russia too. Finally the countries of the Pacific are becoming less dependent from the US. Also the nefast influence of the IMF and the worldbank can be countered. This pact and the BRICS Bank are the first signs of a new world order taking shape. The US influence is fading, which is, in these dark times, a good sign.

Good for China and at least they allowed the press to be there, unlike the TPP meetings.

At the rate these talks are going, we'll see this free-trade pact get off the ground earlier than Japan can come to any decision.

When countries are choosing China over you, America, you know you need a new PR strategy.

Which is shocking to me. Judging on history between China and the US, it is a far safer bet to assume China won't change when compared to the US. I mean, I know its cool to hate on America, but isn't it amazing how China made the Tiananmen Square massacre disappear without an apology and no one demands it. If there's a riot in the US, those outside of the US will cry that America is a country gone afoul, a violent nation of gun lovers. For China, everyone just says, hey, it's China. And the Communist party has thrived and censorship is the norm.

So nothing has changed in China and yet @Bertie assumes China can change when their grip on the past is tighter than ever. China looks almost identical to the country so convulsed by student protests in the 1980s.

"In 1989, Chinese citizens lacked the right to vote, could not freely criticize the government, and faced restrictions on whom they could worship. China's press was under the strict supervision of the government and promoted no viewpoints in opposition to Communist Party power. In 2013, Chinese citizens still can't vote, freely criticize the government, or worship whomever they please..."

http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/06/how-china-made-the-tiananmen-square-massacre-irrelevant/276500/

China is moving slowly and surely in the direction of democracy. I think they will get there

Maybe, but the Chinese habit of building without first establishing a strong foundation leads me to believe they'll likely suffer economic collapse before that ever happens.

Yeah, china is moving to the right direction, And facts still tell stories that censorship still real,,that china still provokes its neighbours whenever they want,,that tiannamen square still out of discussions, freedom to express is VERY limited,,and so forth. And it wil take a hundred years for elections to take place as Bertie speculated,,u can only speculate,,but, never assume that ur predictions will be true..

BertieWoosterNov. 12, 2014 - 12:25PM JST

China is moving slowly and surely in the direction of democracy.

Anyone can tell which way it is going by looking at Hong Kong. http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/hong-kong-police-move-in-against-protest-zone

China is moving slowly and surely in the direction of democracy. I think they will get there, though, as a Chinese tourist told me, it might take a couple of hundred years.

The U.S.A. is moving in the opposite direction. There are more and more restrictions on freedom.

The U.S. will slowly and surely find the right balance between openness and security. It may just take a couple hundred years. And that's OK.

China will have their Snowden. And they will kill him on the spot. Maybe they already did - we just don't know about it.

Leaders of the nations involved in TPP talks, including the United States, Mexico, Japan and Australia, met Monday and issued a statement saying they were making progress. The talks have been delayed repeatedly by disputes over the sweeping nature of its market-opening proposals.

Mexico has already signed NAFTA. There are army of illegal immigrants in US. US used trade as weapon for imposing ideology and reward for the nation which was obedient to her. Even PRC was getting richer because of Most favored trading nation (now called as Normal Trade Duty) with US. US has been engine of world growth before. Due to imbalance trade and military adventures, it has been heavily indebted now. Good old days have gone.

Few details of the U.S.-led proposal have been released but promoters say it would reduce or eliminate tariffs on most goods among the member countries.

Giving tariff concession to Mexico and PRC was the biggest mistake of US. According presidential candidate Ross Perot back in 1994, US was in danger of losing countless industries and jobs. It has become the reality. Successive Presidents have Made Mexico and PRC richer. Not the US of A. Detroit has become the ghost town and most of the blue collar jobs will never come back to US. Therefore TPP is not the magic wand for prosperity.

The talks have been delayed repeatedly by disputes over the sweeping nature of its market-opening proposals.

Many nations have sensitive sector of markets. If they do not want to open their market, there is no point for promoting TPP with fantasy. Geo Political interest should not influence the trade.

"What is your point?"

Tina, That is a very good question.

My first point is that Japan needs to get out its comfort zone and embrace changes in the region (stop burying its head in the sand and living in denial and dilution.)

My second point is that the US is gradually shifting its positions regarding to China’s rise. Instead of pushing Chinese regime to be more hostile to America, the US is trying to engage it as a strategic and business partner while setting the limits through candid and constructive dialogs. For instance, one night at APEC, Obama had a long walking and talking with Xi in his resident complex. Although the talk was scheduled for 3 hours, but it lasted 4 hours and 40 min. At the end of meeting, the pairs made a series of agreements from reducing military confrontations between two nations and bilateral trade agreement which would be worth billions and billions for American corporations.

Here is the thing: the only thing that is constant would change itself. Hope you got my points above.

"Which country is nicer than Japan to USA?"

Hmm.... How about UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Poland .. If you still need more, please let me know, that can be furnished. :)

"“The world, with the U.S. leading, is retreating from free trade. It is moving into protectionism,” said Li. “If the U.S. is saying, I should be careful about who I have free trade with, then China should take a more liberalizing role.”"

And it's a safe bet to be part of the reasons why the US is chafed by the development.

@Bertie

First off, about half of that growing rich population in China want to leave China, 47% compared to the global average of 29%.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/09/15/almost-half-of-wealthy-chinese-want-to-leave/

And yes, wealthy families are growing, but they still trail the US and Japan. Also, 52% of wealthy consumers in China said that they trusted foreign brands, compared with only 11 percent of Chinese ones. Meaning, wealthy Chinese don't even buy their own product or let alone trust it.

As for Snowden, yes he exposed lies. But you're not insinuating China is NOT hiding lies are you? Did you forget about their nobel prize winner who was on the run and in jail? Every country has spies and lies and some spies go rogue, lucky for Snowden he was from the US and not China. The US would probably prefer it if he had an unfortunate action, but the Chinese would more than likely make sure that accident happened.

If China were moving any slower in the direction of democracy, they would be back under the emperors. Good luck getting them to open up their economy with a backward system like that.

Because a China and not a USA today - first economical power....

We can buy a lot of Chinese goods in any country USA today sell only democracy

The cheap knockoffs. Want quality; buy from trusted brands.

Bet people won't buy food made in China too!

isn't it amazing how China made the Tiananmen Square massacre disappear without an apology and no one demands it.

If by 'no one', you mean 'no countries', yes, that is true. Since we are talking about comparisons about China and the US though, the US invaded a country based on lies, killed tens of thousands of innocents in that country, and left it a mess, and no countries are demanding apologies for that either.

"In 1989, Chinese citizens lacked the right to vote, could not freely criticize the government, and faced restrictions on whom they could worship. China's press was under the strict supervision of the government and promoted no viewpoints in opposition to Communist Party power. In 2013, Chinese citizens still can't vote, freely criticize the government, or worship whomever they please..."

While that is mostly true, there is a lot more freedom to criticize the government in China now, than there was in 1989. Back then any criticism was shut down immediately. Nowadays people regularly criticize the government both when talking privately, and on social networking as well.

I meet a lot of Chinese in my business. Certainly these are the rich Chinese who can afford to take a holiday in Okinawa or who come here to conduct business. But this is a rapidly growing section of the population. These people are very open and are not blinkered in any way to what is going on world wide.

I see MAJOR changes in China.

China is moving slowly and surely in the direction of democracy. I think they will get there, though, as a Chinese tourist told me, it might take a couple of hundred years.

The U.S.A. is moving in the opposite direction. There are more and more restrictions on freedom. A good example is what happened to Snowden and Bradley, when all they did was to expose lies. Only the U.S.A. has to have it done YESTERDAY. They don't seem to be able to make long range planning like the Chinese.

It shouldn't be a battle, overt or covert. We all live on the same planet, breathe the same air and drink pretty much the same water. There is nowhere else for us to go. Moon and Mars colonies are far in the future. Isn't it time to cool it on the ideological differences and work out a way that we can all contribute to the survival of the planet?

China says one thing and does the other things (e.g. W.T.O. cases against China). Communist China uses internal policy, or so called China law to censor and taking advantages of fair trade partners as usual. China will have the upper hands of influences across Asia, but find no customer of communist China model's policy, regardless. It is in the saying of "Chinese face" regardless any substance, that what's the matter for Chinese.

China wins support for Asia-Pacific trade proposal

Yes - it's quite normal

Because a China and not a USA today - first economical power....

We can buy a lot of Chinese goods in any country USA today sell only democracy

So USA should step back

For people who try to dis the US for any conceivable reasons, please don’t forget one of the facts, It’s the US which protects the Japan after WWII from spending a fortune for its defense regime, as a direct result , providing a stable foundation for 70 years of peace and prosperity. And it's still accounting as we are spealing.

The world is changing constantly, good, bad or ugly, the US like any country on the face of the earth has to adapt and embrace the changes in order to be the leader for the tomorrow.

If history can provide a guild to mankind: the one that is not able to change with time will be left behind, it does not matterif it’s a person or a country.

EthanWilber, Japan is paying US the fortune. I don't understand why only Japan has to pay so much compared to all other countries like Germany, Italy, South Korea, etc.

as a direct result , providing a stable foundation for 70 years of peace and prosperity. And it's still accounting as we are spealing.

What is your point? Which country is nicer than Japan to USA?

@strangerland

You can't be serious, internet censorship is off the charts in China. You can't criticize China whilst in China on social network sites unless you have serious encryption. Internet censorship in China is the “most extensive effort to selectively censor human expression ever implemented."

Just google "china internet censorship" and you're flooded with results from various sites and publications and groups. And from my first hand experiences there, You couldn't be farther from the truth.

I don't want to stray too far off the article's point which is countries are choosing China's deal over the US's, which I can understand since China is actually in Asia and their slave labor prices are ideal to most world economies. But it's crazy to me. Made in America isn't the gold standard, but it isn't the poisonous lead-based standard of China, with it's crazy protests against Japanese companies a year or so ago, it's suppression of human rights, and one of the most incredibly biased-propaganda based state controlled media markets in the world.

There is nothing "a lot more freedom" about China.

Ethan, I know US is shifting to China, and Obama does not like Japan. You two do your ways, Japan does what Japan believes what is right. And Japan is not living in denial. Japan denies only what's not truth. Enough talking to you.