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China's aircraft carrier a show of force as Japan tension festers

90 Comments
By Kiyoshi Takenaka and Terril Yue Jones

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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2012.

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As a training ship, this is a great platform. To pretend it is in any way a military threat is yet another example of how China does not understand how one should speak on the global stage.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Remember, China is the country that made the bullets that idiot used in Colorado in the movie theater. the bullets that quickly jammed his gun.

They are the same country that made their version of the "shinkansen" that crashed shortly after launch.

The same country that had to photoshop pix of said bullet train to make it look good.

They'll be lucky if this ship doesn't sink.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Quite honestly for a country of this scale to be acting like a great super power ( in Military terms ), and taking into account it's level of aggression towards almost all it's neighbours, the deployment of this carrier is a total embarrassment as most of us see it. It doesn't take Einstein to realize this. Metal junk refitted.

America and it's allies always just need to stay 20+ years ahead of the game and that's it really. Barking dogs never bite.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

China's communist party might not even be around long enough to see all of this through. How long will they be able to contyain the masses with their economic growth? Everyone in China is going to want a piece of the pie. Not to mention that sooner or later they're going to have to stop undervaluing their currency.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Funny as hell China does not have planes or pilots for that matter that can land on this floating target.

If China makes a move against anyone this target will become a great reef.

Waste of money for a nation that can not fight a sea war.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

frank07Sep. 26, 2012 - 07:40AM JST is there a problem with bilateral actions? bilateral means both parties doesn't it?

LOL. I'm sure Vice Foreign Minister Zhang meant "unilateral". But he messed up. I see a demotion in his future.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

China continues to PO Japan and America, this is only going to end bad for China.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Its just an intimidation tactic..."look we have a big boat...isn't it purty?" In reality, Japan has a much stronger navy and could probably sing that crate should it ever come down to it.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

is there a problem with bilateral actions? bilateral means both parties doesn't it?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

China this month warned the United States, with President Barack Obama’s “pivot” to Asia, not to get involved in separate territorial disputes in the South China Sea between China and U.S. allies such as the Philippines.

Translation: We dont want to get our ass kicked!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

China is showing it's new power capabilities, but it'll be years before it can really be effective. It's still only a training ship due to China's lack of experience with carriers and know-hows.

Doesn't Japan have it's helicopter carriers? and are upgrading to larger ships? The JASDF is also quite fully-trained professional. the Helicopter Carriers are able to carry VTOL/STOVL fighters if necessary.

In all, Japan and JSDF are capable and a quarter-of-a-turn in every aspect to build itself a formidable Armed Forces that can equal any in the world, but stop short of doing so.

If Japan want to exchange blows with China, they should announce any sort of upgrades to their JSDF. Currently, the JSDF announced :

1) Announced decisions regarding buying amphibious assault ships. 2) part of the JGSDF unit stationed in Kyushu are in Guam with the US Marines, learning how to take/retake an island. 3) new radar in Hokkaido.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

China would use nukes without a second thought.

I doubt that as that would be tantamount to suicide.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Dara Danh said : If Japan want to exchange blows with China, they should announce any sort of upgrades to their JSDF. Currently, the JSDF announced : 1) Announced decisions regarding buying amphibious assault ships. 2) part of the JGSDF unit stationed in Kyushu are in Guam with the US Marines, learning how to take/retake an island. 3) new radar in Hokkaido.

China already knows that. They have spies everywhere.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Jay Hoffman: Japan isn't fairing any worse than other countries which rely on exports... just that JT reports every single negative report for posters to cite as yet another example of Japan going down the pan. China is a HUGE market, yes, but Japan will find other markets and other sites for factories.

This carrier is a showcase, that's all. It's like a custom car... it looks great and really looks fantastic, but under the surface it's still a 20-odd year old piece of Soviet scrap metal. Like their space programme this is all to make an impression on the watching world.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Although not much of a threat now, Chinese aircraft carriers will become huge foreign policy (and bullying) tools for Beijing in 5 to 10 years. Look out East Asia, there is a new Sheriff in town and he isn't as friendly as the old one was.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This "ship" known as the "Varyag" is cold-war era Soviet built ship that was built in1988. The Soviets never completed its build and the shell (no electronics or working components like an engine -which would have been helpful) got passed to the Ukraine, then sold to a private company in Hong Kong at an auction. It was then set adrift for a period of time in the Suez canal until they managed to tow it back to a Chinese shipyard in 2002.

The initial plan was to convert this ship into a casino (LOL), until the Chinese government thought "hmm, maybe we can use this for training" and started refurbishment in 2008. They built this thing up for three years and began sea trials last year. They JUST completed the sea trials last month, and China "claims" that the have loaded it with weapons (no planes -but plenty of weapons, oh, and a radar), but Reuters debunk this claim and said that this ship has no weapons system, and is just a training ship.

On 23 September 2012, the aircraft carrier was handed over to the People's Liberation Army Navy (that was like last Sunday). Really...how do they expect us to react to this thing....It literally a joke and you can't help but to laugh. The Oasis of the Seas (cruise ship) is way more sophisticated than this tub (literally).

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Here is the whole history of the ship w/ pictures. Notice the CG pics of a plane taking off from its deck. LOL

http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/varyagtransform.htm

2 ( +4 / -2 )

They have done many nuclear tests. So you take a rusty old aircraft carrier, put a bomb in it and sail it to Japan. How is Japan going to defend itself against that?

LOL...wrong again Bob! Chinese are nothing but show and fluff. Their economy grew quickly because they have little or no government regulations on companies, which in turn invited crooked and greedy companies to set up shop in China and hire labor for next to nothing.

The stole intellectual property from many companies and sold counterfeits all over the world. And now they are buying bits and pieces of failed or failing companies and selling their products under another name (which is probably the only legitimate thing they've done)

As for what the Japanese are going to protect themselves from an old, rusty, soviet-era, diesel powered, steel crate with no real weapons system, planes , or modern instrumentation? The simple answer is that Japan doesn't have to do anything because that rust bucket is no threat. Although technically dormant, Japan has a very capable and robust navy. They have a fleet of F-15 and F-16's that would run circles around China's crappy soviet built SU-33's, and not to even mention that they have the backing of the US military that would sink that rust bucket with a sneeze, if they even set one foot into Japan waters with a bomb. The US has nuclear (power and weapon) subs crawling all over the planet, not doubt in the sea of Japan as well. There is no way China would do anything to provoke a full scale war with Japan. It would be the end of them.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

According to this article in the LATimes, a neutral party, China has the strongest claim to the islands since the 13th century. Japan seized it in the late 1800s and now claims it as theirs.

Completely irrelevant... The world map looked totally different in the 13th century. 2/3 of the US was owned by Spain and France during the early 19th century. Does that mean that they can come back and say 2/3 of the US belongs to them?

Secondly, there is a 1968(?) Chinese map (made by China) that calls the islands "Senkaku Islands" which acknowledges Japanese ownership.

@just-a-bigguy

You'd make a good propaganda writer for the PRC...because you're only 100% wrong.

They just loves blaming their own problems to neighbours!

Really? Is this why China always demands an apology every time there is a new PM elected to office, and despite apologizing only like 100 million times since WWII?

Chinese armed forces has inheritaged the glorious soviet red army by succeding the former varyag aircraft carrier!

No, the Chinese Army BOUGHT the soviet rust bucket because they don't have the experience and know how to build one on their own...just like all of the cheap crap that comes out of China.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

AlexNoaburgSep. 26, 2012 - 12:50PM JST

According to this article in the LATimes, a neutral party, China has the strongest claim to the islands since the 13th >century

While one can never say that any journalist or publication is entirely neutral, I would regard the fact that the author of the article is currently living in Beijing highly suspicious :-) Without doubting her sincerity in any way, I must wonder if some party official was not looking over her shoulder while she typed that, with some means of coercion ;-)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

According to this article in the LATimes, a neutral party, China has the strongest claim to the islands since the 13th century.

Selective reading is not your friend. The actual quote in the article is "Until the late 19th century, the Chinese had the strongest claim to the islands.". This means that after the 19th century (1895, to be precise), it wasn't the strongest claim anymore. As has been mentioned many, many times, China has utterly ignored the islands since then (and before, to be frank), and any claim they might have had has been lost. Those are the facts. No one cares that someone from China saw them first. The world doesn't operate on the "Dibs!" principle. The ones who administer and build on a property are going to be given far greater weight in possession than the ones who can only scrape up a few maps from the 15th century. China completely ignored the islands. Japan did not.

Ya, way to prove my point.

Saying that someone is underestimating something isn't the same as showing that they are underestimating something. Unless there is some evidence that this training ship has greater capabilities than we can determine, it has been estimated just fine.

Which is not to say it is going to be ignored. In an actual major conflict, it would be one of the first targets, for symbolic value if nothing else.

Did China has threatened Japan with an aircraft carrier commissioned? Absolutely NOT!

One of the things that China needs to learn is that on the global stage, you don't bluff. Saber-rattling works fine if you are intimidating some little group somewhere, but the big players in the world take everything very seriously. Gunboat diplomacy hasn't worked as an international policy since WWII, and not even all that well back then. In this case, unveiling the aircraft carrier as a military weapon, when it is fairly obvious to anyone who has been around them that it isn't (I served aboard the Kennedy and the Washington) is somewhat like having a child threaten you with a cork gun.

I realize that English is probably not your first language, but notice that in the third paragraph, the author writes "In fact,..." This is a reflection of the statements made in the 2nd paragraph, where the Minister of Defense made statements implying the threat of force. The author considers these statements to not be factual, and so begins the third paragraph with, "In fact, it's just a training ship, yadda, yadda,". The point is that the statements that the minister of defense made gave all the impression that the carrier was intended as a threat, to the point the author felt the need to clarify and point out that the ship actually wasn't a threat.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

china' aircraft-less carrier a show of farce....

Children like to display their toys.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/2012-09/25/content_12953597.htm

What does China's first aircraft carrier mean?

Please read the China Daily weblink listed above, I can see what China has in their mind. CONTROL the Asian Sea.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Resurface please do not refer to Chinese by that name. While I do not like the government of the Peoples Republic have had a lot of good contact with Chinese people. Some of them have visited Okinawa and a lot of them are surprised by our Ryukyu heritage.

About the carrier, what will they fly off of it? Who can fly off of it? It is really just one big target useful only for helo ops that the Red Chinese do not know how to do. It is one large white elephant, useful for propaganda only.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Ironically, the carrier is bigger than quite a few of the Senkaku islands it may eventually be used to defend!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China has a naval landing force as part of their Navy but no Marine Corps under an independent command.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@peanut666

Seek PEACE better than WAR!!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

just-a-bigguy

An aricraft carrier's sole purpose is to PROJECT military presence beyond it's shores, that is why Japan does not have any fixed wing aircraft carriers. If that is not a threat I do not know what is.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Gunboat diplomacy hasn't worked as an international policy since WWII

The Falkland Islands beg to differ.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Militarily speaking fighting a land war with China is a bad idea. They have lots of soldiers, more than enough guns, tanks, artillery and missiles.

Fighting an airwar or seawar is a different story. Currently most of the PRC's aircraft are down for maintenance. They are dependent upon parts from Russia and the Russians have stopped delivery because they are seriously upgrading their own airforce and parts are in short supply.

The PRC's whitewater (coastal) navy is fairly good. They have a large number of small, lightly armed and very fast ships but, they haven't gotten around to building up their bluewater (deepsea) navy. Chinese subs still use diesel engines and batteries, the Japanese and Taiwanese are switching over to fuel cells that can use a water and ethanol mix to produce power that allows them greater range and the ability to hunt silently.

The main problem is that Japan cannot strike the first blow. Should they do so, the US and the rest of SE Asia will be on them like a pack of wolves on a downed deer. They have to somehow anger the PRC enough to make the first strike and at that point their treaty with the US and various other great powers kicks in and there will be cruise missiles hitting targets in China.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The main problem is that Japan cannot strike the first blow. Should they do so, the US and the rest of SE Asia will be on them like a pack of wolves on a downed deer. They have to somehow anger the PRC enough to make the first strike and at that point their treaty with the US and various other great powers kicks in and there will be cruise missiles hitting targets in China.

Why would Japan want to get into a war with China? China would use nukes without a second thought.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

presto, yes, and I think the children playing with the toy are named Ri and Ri-Tahd!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

you guys may laugh at the jet-less carrier..................but consider this. it's big enough to handle assault helicopters and troop carrying helicopters ( for certain mission like landing troops on some rocks ? ) Don't belittle your enemy unless you want surprises.

No one is laughing at the Chinese aircraft carrier that can serve as a launch platform for assault helicopters. Rather, we are poking fun at China for pretending their aircraft carrier is anything more than a possible platform for helicopters, compared to what aircraft carriers (even trainers) are supposed to do. Not that helicopters are a major, major, problem, either.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

They are using this to show off their military power... a second-hand ex-Soviet carrier which was never completed and bought as a casino project.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You said it floats, yet it is movable. All the 4 main islands of Japan are not movable land, but will become " floating junks " after landed with a couple of DF-41. Interesting isn't it ?

Okay, again, the whole bully thing isn't working. It is actually somewhat ludicrous. To talk about a nuclear strike as a diplomatic solution is about as silly as setting your neighbor's house on fire because you didn't like his paint job. It doesn't make you sound strong. It doesn't make you look tough. It makes you look like a child who thinks he knows what it is to be an adult.

Certainly, there will be a couples more of the aircrafts carriers queing in in a year or so for PLAN. should the world feel very much threatened and uncomfortable ? No ! That is China natural need; and only for its maritime protection, noway seen as a boastful act.

Absolutely true. When and if China ever fields aircraft carriers, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to have any complaints (Their may even be some kudos from the countries that know that the Chinese military mentality isn't likely to work on an aircraft carrier). China has every right to protect itself, and boasting, well, in all honesty, they do have some things that they deserve to boast about too.

However, boasting about raising the operational strength of the navy and protecting national sovereignty (the same words, by no small coincidence, used in the discussion talks about the islands) with this ship in the background, and doing what is being interpreted by everyone as a show of force with something that barely qualifies as a training ship...that comes of as rather dumbfounding at best, downright childish at worst. Dumbfounding in that it is like the president promising a path to fusion energy, and then proudly presenting a wing to the local schoolhouse along with a bunch of science textbooks; childish in that it has been presented as gunboat diplomacy without actual guns and a boat that was only just saved from becoming a floating casino.

On a national level, it is difficult to take this behavior seriously. On a global level, there is no choice but to take it seriously, and China really, really, doesn't want their nuclear threat taken seriously. Saddam Hussein tried that bluff, and the rest of the world destroyed his country and then the country next to his for good measure.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

o yea, joy, that's definitely going the right way, these kids on top have a lot to learn still about , euh, everything ? That's like gorilla's slamming the ground over territorial pissings gods damn

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Only in reference to nuclear weapons. No one is particularly worried about this carrier.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The same country that had to photoshop pix of said bullet train to make it look good. The same country that makes iPhones, iPads and, together with Taiwan, many of the computers branded Sony, Toshiba, IBM, Dell and HP. The American's can only make the CPU. When China starts producing its own Air-craft carriers then they will be as good as these products.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

[Narushige Michishita, a security expert at the National Graduate Institute for Policy Studies in Tokyo, said he thought the timing had nothing to do with the islands dispute].

Now the expert say so, So some above of you better don't rush your conclusion like Ishihara rushing in the wrong direction and create tension between China and Japan.

Let us all pray for PEACE.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I've heard that the very old ship was supposed to go to amusement park when Macao bought it from Ukraine, then China got it finally and remade it aircraft carrier. It looks good but it looks like nobody knows if it is really good. No fighter jets on deck!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm not going to laugh until after China makes a stupid move causing them to back off.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

it is just a rusty piece of metal floating on sea , but china always and only use it to frighten its smaller and weaker neighbors , lol , i am hugging my stomach to laugh on the face of idiot china . china 4get that , japan is really deserved its teacher at war , so this action of idiot china is just make japan to look down the idiot only

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The mark “16” on the carrier’s side indicates that it is limited to training, Chinese and other military experts said. China does not have planes capable of landing on the carrier and so far training for such landings has been carried out on land.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Wow, so they have 1 antiquated aircraft carrier that has no capability as of yet. The USA has how many operational and battle tested Carrier strike groups, 11? No much of a threat. Reminds me of North Korean posturing craving attention.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ridiculous. As mature nations with far more important issues on their plates at home, both sides should be sitting down and talking, not showing off their muscles.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This ship is as YongYang pointed out nothing but a training vessel to train future pilots and seamen to operate this ship, having said that PRC has little to no in-flight refueling capabilities and/or early warning aircraft let along that can fly off this ship. So even if fighters are able to fly off they will be too late and can only do short range with light weaponry. PRC also lack ASuW capabilites so the battle group would be a sitting duck not worthy of even target practice. It would probably take another five to ten years for PRC to train their personnel and another ten years to fill in the gaps PLAN sorely lacks even if they construct new aircraft carriers. Both India and Japan has better capabilites then PLAN.

Complete waste of time and resources I would say.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

you guys may laugh at the jet-less carrier..................but consider this. it's big enough to handle assault helicopters and troop carrying helicopters ( for certain mission like landing troops on some rocks ? ) Don't belittle your enemy unless you want surprises.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China's Dog and Pony show...China is not making it easy for the US. America will be forced to intervein if they keep up this naval parade of sort's. Just one Tomahawk missle, and China's want to be air craft carrier would be blown in half.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

davidake

All the staff on the carrier have 5% female and 95% university graduates, more than 50 with doctor degree and hundreds with master degree.

One question what in the hell can person with a doctor degree possibly do on a training vessel? What are their line of expertise?

Academic and real line training have two seperate requirements and qualifications.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

suddenly everyone is crazy over that aircrap crappier, laughable. Remember, a private bought it at the price of scrap metal, and Red China refurbished it to an crappier, without aircrap hahaha

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The PLA Navy's agents bought the Varyag (Liaoning) from the Ukraine government on condition that it never be commissioned for active naval fleet operations. It is a conventionally powered training ship and it is not likely to be turned into a ship of the line ... although it is being equipped similarly to the original USSR navy's plans for a "heavy cruiser aircraft carrier." It has a sizable capability for ship-to-ship and ship-to-air missiles as well as cannon and anti-aircraft guns.

As heavy cruiser aircraft carriers, the planned successors to the Liaoning will fill a slot in the PLA Navy's needs that allows it to project air power as well as ocean surface firepower .... when compared to Japan which only has helicopter carriers, for example. . Of other Asian neighbors, Thailand has one aircraft carrier and India has two (the older from the UK and the newer from Russia) with another one due in 2015 (home-made).

All of Australia's carriers are retired.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China would use nukes without a second thought.

I doubt that as that would be tantamount to suicide.

I'm not sure China buys into the "mutually assured destruction" idea that the US and USSR did. Maybe they have now? The "old school" Chinese philosophy was that there would be enough Chinese left that they would "win" a nuclear war. I'm hoping that has changed.

As far as their aircraft carrier is concerned it's not going to be much good until they get the planes and the training to use it. In the meantime they have several long range cruise missiles that are more of a threat to the US fleet than this carrier is. I think the carrier is nothing but another talking point for Chinese propaganda. I'm not sure that's going to work. But there is danger if they start to believe their own propaganda and overstep. More and more the "nine dashed line" looks like a dangerous game. I'm not sure the Chinese leadership can back down without riots against the Chinese government. Not a good situation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

With 100 Mitsubishi COmbat Aircraft F-2, more than 100 F-4 Phantom-II-Kai and over 200 F-15J, Japan Main Islands is one whole BIG AIRCRAFT carrier.

What Japan need this time, as a BIG AIRCRAFT ITSELF itself are more 3D NEC RADAR, UAV that can loiter for more than 24 hours, more AWACS place, and the right to make anti-ship and other missile with a range of more than 200-km. Japan should be allowed to make missile of 1,000-km range.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People forget that America said the same things about Japan before Pearl Harbor - that the Japanese military was junk and deficient.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A Japanese person will always speak out against the Chinese, right or wrong. That`s what they are taught. I mean all my students here constantly say horrible things about Chinese. In class! Literally saying "I hate the Chinese." One of the sad things about the culture.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Red China has no planes to operate from it. Second stol aircraft are not as fast or capable as standard aircraft.By itself it is not a threat at all.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in turn urged China and its Southeast Asian neighbors to resolve disputes “without coercion, without intimidation, without threats and certainly without the use of force.”

Why are American U.S. Secretaries so stupid? They think China is still this Taoist, Buddhist, Confucius, believing soft spoken, kind people. Let me tell you something morons, the Chinese is a GOD less society. Religion is outlawed. Government is religion in China.

Mao's Cultural Revolution ( Wénhuà Dàgémìng ) killed off millions. It's purpose was to destroy capitalism and ALL traditional and cultural elements from Chinese society, and to impose Maoist orthodoxy within the Party. This was done to modernize and westernize China to make it competitive with the world. The last 2 or 3 generations are not the soft spoken Chinese you see on old T.V. shows and movies. They are greedy people with little or no morality - just the idea to win at any cost. They have been know to sell off their own children for profit. They rewrite history regardless of whether it is completely fabricated. That is modern China. That is the modern Chinese people.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It looks nice in the official press pictures though.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Too the Chinese bought a ship that they do not know what to do with!

You can not make these things up!

The Chinese have so much money that they are buying junk.

What's next buying up all the sunk Germen WW II subs?

Oh wait I got something they can buy, swampland in the Gobi desert, these people are so gullible that they would buy it and think they got a deal!

Too bloody funny!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Sorry I was trying to type "Too funny", but I was laughing so much that I missed it...

Again, too bloody funny.

I would like to that the PRC for keeping me LMAO!

You can not make these things up!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

America and it's allies always just need to stay 20+ years ahead of the game and that's it really. Barking dogs >never bite.

Try as long as American can maintain, stays ahead, always upgrade and improve its military technology, uphold air superiority, the US will always have an advantage and even more reason to have and maintain a strong military. Control the skies, you win the war.

Now make no mistake China is feverishly trying to play catch up and to gain and try to understand American military technology as much as they can, it is NOT impossible for them to highly improve on their own technology, remember, they do have an inexhaustible amount of cash and a huge military budget defense budget about 11.2 percent to 670 billion yuan (106.4 billion U.S. dollars) no chump change. But for now, I really wouldn't worry much about China's new Matchbox toy.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The USA can bring even more online if required. It would be 5 modern US carriers fully loaded with Jets against this 1 old carrier with no aircraft. Given time the USA would overwhelm the Peoples Republic. Soldiers alone will not win this fight.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@bass

I agree with 80% of your post...which pretty incredible considering that I usually disagree with you 100% of the time (LOL).

The US doesn't really need to improve their technology (at least not to the scale they have been) We have weapons that are light years ahead of our nearest competition. China is still trying to figure out technology we had back in the 80's and 90's, and continue to own and operate soviet-era weapons. They seemed to have "developed" their own version of the stealth fighter, which has raised a few eye brows, but if you know anything about how stealth technology works (at least the info that the US military lets us know about, you'd know that China's stealth fighter is nowhere near being stealth.

Secondly, China's economy is built on stilts. The majority of the economy grew on corruption and illegal activity due to lack of government regulation. If China expects to compete legally and competitively in the global market, they need to completely revamp they way they do business. They are profitable now,because the US and Japanese economy sucks. As soon as the US and Japan starts manufacturing products in the domestically again, instead of outsourcing them all over the world, China will have some REAL competition in the global market, and they won't be able to sell the fake cheaply built crap anymore.

I think China will eventually catch up with the US economy, but they are looking at a hard crash as well, unless they check themselves. The have way too much fluff and smoke screens to be long term economic power.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

its ugly.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China is nuclear capable. They have done many nuclear tests. So you take a rusty old aircraft carrier, put a bomb in it and sail it to Japan. How is Japan going to defend itself against that? U.S.A. are you listening? Do you see the danger? All it has to do is park the thing right near the islands and detonate the bomb as a show of force. Think about it.

People far more experienced at this game thought about it quite some time ago. The moment any nuclear weapon leaves any country, there are many, many eyes watching very, very carefully, and if there is the slightest suspicion that it is intended for conflict, the ship will be sunk from 500 nm away. Not only would the nuke be stopped, but that would be the end of China. There would be no further negotiations or treaties. The country would be taken down with a speed and ferocity that hasn't been seen in a long time, and yes, the U.S. would probably be in the lead. We are one of two civilizations that has truly seen the devastation that these weapons of mass destruction create, and we have no intention of ever allowing such a thing to happen again.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

china' aircraft-less carrier a show of farce.....

It'll be fun to watch the videos of take-off/landing-attempt crashes.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Underestimating threats is something that you should never do.

Right on! The Chinese carrier is no threat, so there is no underestimating here on the majority of the posts.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Right on! The Chinese carrier is no threat, so there is no underestimating here on the majority of the posts.

Ya, way to prove my point.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You try going to a bar over there and referring to the Islas Maldivas, and then tell me if these people feel like they were threatened into complying with the British.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I wonder if the leaders of China and S Korea have been replaced by N Korean robot duplicates?

Found this information on Wiki about the carrier:

Originally known as Riga when her keel was laid down, the carrier was launched on December 4, 1988, and renamed Varyag (Varangian) in late 1990, after the famous Russian cruiser. Construction had ceased by 1992, with the ship structurally complete but without electronics. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union, ownership was transferred to Ukraine; the ship was laid up, unmaintained, and then stripped. By early 1998, she lacked engines, a rudder, much of her operating systems, and was put up for auction. In April 1998, Ukrainian Trade Minister Roman Shpek announced the winning bid of US$20 million from Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd., a small company based in Hong Kong. They proposed to tow Varyag out of the Black Sea, through the Suez Canal and around southern Asia to Macau, where they would moor the ship and convert it into a floating hotel and gambling parlor. It would be similar to the attractions Kiev in Tianjin and Minsk at Minsk World in Shenzhen.

You should read the rest of this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Liaoning it's actually quite funny when you consider it's meant to be a show of strength.

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where they would moor the ship and convert it into a floating hotel and gambling parlor

Ironic, given how China's been rolling the dice.

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Dear author: before quoting somebody's words, pls make sure you quote them right! Otherwise, you are just demeaning yourself!

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We all have to work together! Yes, China too! These stupid little islands are not worth anything except some deranged messed ideas by that old goat Ishihara, and by others who feel that the fish etc..around the Senkakus must be real good, I doubt it, and that there may or may not be OIL, GAS around those islands, so we should all kill each other??????

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The Cultural Revolution lasted from from 1966 through 1976. Over 25 to 35 million people starved to death for China in a period of 10 years. Now China is starting to change back to a more capitalist economy, but what happened to them socially? Religion is STILL outlawed. Why do you think they are trying to kill the Dalai Lama from Tibet? The Chinese are now greedy, Godless people who want land expansion, wealth, power at any cost. Why do you think they are starting to build aircraft carriers when they didn't need them before? Because they are planning to take back Taiwan, steal islands from Vietnam, Japan, the Philippines, Brunei, etc.

Senkaku is the big test for China. If China gets them, then the new incoming government will learn that Asia will easily be taken over by China. The U.S. won't do anything because in their Chinese eyes, America is a cowardly and ignorant country that has never understood who the Chinese were and who the Chinese are today.

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Don't forget people laughed at China's economy and their industrial might less than 7 years ago. Look at them now. You are typing on a Chinese made keyboard or cellphone.

I'm sure we were typing on Chinese made keyboards/cell phones 7 years ago...

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I agree with 80% of your post...which pretty incredible considering that I usually disagree with you 100% of the time (LOL).

Wow, say it ain't so! There really must be a heaven out there. LOL

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Gotta love all these armchair military experts. Underestimating threats is something that you should never do.

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According to this article in the LATimes, a neutral party, China has the strongest claim to the islands since the 13th century. Japan seized it in the late 1800s and now claims it as theirs. I hope this gives everyone a clearer picture. Now if you want to argue that the island was taken from China and Japan still isn't going to give it back because of whatever reason: fear, stopping the Communists, that's fine but have the facts and let's just talk truthfully.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-china-japan-islands-20120925,0,216163.story

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The people of China and overseas Chinese has long admired the great achievement by the nation's industry and military contributions over her aircraft carrier commisioned! The PLA, Chinese armed forces has inheritaged the glorious soviet red army by succeding the former varyag aircraft carrier!

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Most of you guys here do not know what are you talk about this carrier. It is a training ship not for combat purpose. It has numbered 16, two digites number which is for training ship. All the staff on the carrier have 5% female and 95% university graduates, more than 50 with doctor degree and hundreds with master degree. They are not real army personnel but trainers. Chinese will use this ship to train real navy personnel, airplane, defence system and attack system for their other at least three carriers that are under construction. Please get some fact first then comment, do not be too emotional.

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Don't forget people laughed at China's economy and their industrial might less than 7 years ago. Look at them now. You are typing on a Chinese made keyboard or cellphone.

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Did China has threatened Japan with an aircraft carrier commissioned? Absolutely NOT! Japan is a state with paranoid mentality and very fragile in nature! They just loves blaming their own problems to neighbours! Or perhaps they just want to remove article 9 in constitutuion but lacking the courages but gossiping everyday!

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You said it floats, yet it is movable. All the 4 main islands of Japan are not movable land, but will become " floating junks " after landed with a couple of DF-41. Interesting isn't it ?

Certainly, there will be a couples more of the aircrafts carriers queing in in a year or so for PLAN. should the world feel very much threatened and uncomfortable ? No ! That is China natural need; and only for its maritime protection, noway seen as a boastful act.

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The sky might not be falling, but it seems to be crumbling. Japan is certainly feeling the economic pinch, so who is going to have the last laugh? Look around you all the headlines

Toyota, Nissan cut China output over island row

Sharp to cut 11,000 jobs, sell assets

Standard & Poor's cuts ratings on Sony

JAL shares plunge 8.73% on China worries

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I don't think it's very productive for everyone to keep making fun of China's military.

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Western minded nations seem to think they can have all the weapons and machinery but when a "rogue country" as they put it does the same thing the shoe is on the other foot.

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China is nuclear capable. They have done many nuclear tests. So you take a rusty old aircraft carrier, put a bomb in it and sail it to Japan. How is Japan going to defend itself against that? U.S.A. are you listening? Do you see the danger? All it has to do is park the thing right near the islands and detonate the bomb as a show of force. Think about it.

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