politics

China's top leaders remember victory over Japan

34 Comments
By LOUISE WATT

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Jerel E Rogers, my view is based on facts from western sources including statistics. Capitalism is flourished in China since it’s opened up. Is this not a fact? So your economic slavery concept would contradict your own western sources. Everyday western news shows every action that China makes with biased view I may say, and they even make their own statistics to counter China’s. But they all pointed to the same conclusion that China is getting richer faster than any country ever done in history. Their standards of living are improving at an unprecedented speed, so in a few decades their standards of living may even exceed that of the US.

It is very naïve to use population as a comparative measurement in this case. Say, India has a comparable population to China, do they have more millionaires than Japan? Based on your theory, because China has more population then there must be more smarter people in China than the US and Japan combined, is that right? The US has been spending 5 times more than China in military spending. Well, now you say the US is downsizing but have you ever thought that the US had been spending like crazy before? Based on your population measurement, shouldn’t China be spending more than the US?

Everything that China makes has been in the softer ways and tries to accommodate with the outside forces as much as possible. In the history of mankind, have you ever seen a communist authoritarian country having two political systems? China has made every attempt to prevent chaos and unrest to its population and we from the outside have been criticizing China’s way of doing things. Chinese people are happy with their lives and have the chance to travel anywhere in the world. Why do we want to force them to be like the West? Think of democracy and freedom in the Middle East, how many years already that people there have to suffer and die for the illusive concepts. I have been to many countries but the only country that I admire most is China. The way it transforms itself to this point is really remarkable. Among the three superpowers, China is the best of all. Though, it has to kill some of its own people for the sake of the majority, but every country has a history of doing that. The worse is the US which kills a lot of other people for the sake of ideology and self-interest.

You say Japan has been peaceful for the past 30 years, but have you ever thought that Japan has no choice but to be peaceful after losing the war? What we should look at is how Japan is trying to keep that peace. Provoking China, changing the constitution, involving in arms sale, stirring up conflicts with other nations against China, and military expansion are not at all conducive to peace. In fact, Japan has the choice to be friendly with all of its neighbours and benefit from the combined economic forces in Asia, but it chose to go the other route which is against peace. I am telling you without China, you would have seen troubles all around in Asia, such as India vs. Pakistan, Vietnam vs. Cambodia, and North Korea vs. South Korea. You should be more open minded and don’t think that what you read in the western news are the facts. As they say, there are two sides to every story.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yes, this is political grandstanding by China. However if Japan had properly acknowledged its wartime crimes China wouldn't have nearly so much to bleat about.

And if Japanese leaders can continue to commemorate over a thousand war criminals as 'heroes' who fought for the 'glory' of Japan's 'greatness' then at least China should be permitted to happily remember the day they became FREE from the yoke of Japanese imperial aggression.

Anyone can see which cause is nobler.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Flowers: I am going to state this very simply, I do not blame the mistakes of 2 generations back on this generation. However, you seem not to understand some of the arguments I have made. If you wish to understand the concept of Economic Slavery in china, look no farther then the Laogai system. I'll allow you to do the research, and understand that the higher amount of millionaires in China is due to both their forced labor system, manipulation of the market by the government setting prices, and simply, statistics compared to japan. There is a larger population in China, then in the United States and Japan combined, naturally there will be a larger part of the population that are millionaires then in all of Japan. The United States has been in the last year, downsizing it's military time and time again, and it reached a point where the Japanese government has reinterpreted their constitution to allow more leniency to increase their military to protect themselves. China in the last 15 years has absorbed Hong Kong, encroached on Taiwan and shown their hand in the riots in Tibet in 2008. Now, they attempt to lay claim to various islands due to "historical" ownership. If there is a country in the far east that is trying to cause unrest, I would say that would be China without a shadow of a doubt.

I find your defense of the Chinese system, and desire to hold onto the old mindset of where a man is born defines him, all together very fascinating to be honest. However, I must correct your generalizations about my view point, as you have pointedly taken aim; I do not support any of the 3 currant super powers in the world, and overall dislike their tactics. This assessment applies to the Americans, as well as the Russians, not only the chinese. Compared to those three countries in the last 30 years, Japan has, and is a peaceful nation. There is not one time that you can truly say that the Japanese government has attacked their own citizenry with a force that can be classified as a military force by the Geneva Convention, something that America and China alike, cannot claim.

Your arguments are that of a chinese nationalist, defending your country's stances and deflaming anyone who dares to criticize those views. I cannot complain about nationalism, it is your pride in China that allows you to argue with such passion, however, if you are not willing to accept criticism based on facts, you will find many difficulties in life. But please, I ask you to sit down and study recent events, and if you can still make claim that without China the entire region will be like the middle east(A ridiculous comparison in all regards), and that the world would be more peaceful without japan, I will be bluntly amazed at such a short sighted view.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Jerel E Rogers, “I disagree. Your allegiance is to who you swear it to. It has no bearing on where you were born at all.” In this case, allegiance has nothing to do with the war between China and Japan. We are talking about a country fighting with another country so to distinguish between the Nationalists and the Red Army who are both Chinese is absolutely absurd. In a larger context, if your parents are Chinese no matter where you are you will always be considered to be Chinese by the people around you. In the US during the war, do you know what happened to the Japanese Americans? They were gathered and locked up in camps, so allegiance to whom I may ask? I have no idea of what you are saying about “policies of economic slavery,” all I know is China was able to lift over 500 million people out of poverty in a very short period of time; that was an unprecedented economic miracle. Only within a few decades, now there are more millionaires in China than in Japan. Chinese people also know about the killing in China by the Chinese government, but the Japanese people seem to be ignorant about the killing that their people committed in China. What China and Korea do is commendable in order to prevent the history from repeating out of the Japanese own ignorance. You also seem to know that America’s protection is weakening, so what did the Japanese government do? They allow the US to expand their bases, sell arms to destabilize the region, and boost up military. All in the name of peace, considering this it is Japan that is the root cause of all the conflicts in the region. Without Japan the region would be very peaceful, but without China the region would be like in the Middle East. Yes, Japan used to be peaceful but no more. Abe went around the world trying to cause friction against China. Again and again China has to respond, and you seem to see China in a negative way with one sided view. It has nothing to do with grudges either. As Deng used to say, “we can forgive but we will not forget.”

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Flowers

China wants the people to learn about mistakes???Just as long as it's own Chinese people don't learn about the mistakes about it's own governments own horrific truths!!!!!"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Those leaders represented countries that actually defeated Nazi Germany. They didn't commemorate the defeat of a country at the hands of someone else. Please keep your foolish comments to yourself

Ossan -- should have guessed it. You tried to make an off-target point, and when called out on it, all you can do is get personal or change the subject. The plain fact is that Chinese leaders who "do not remember" WWII, have just as much right to celebrate their country's freedom from Japanese oppression as Allied leaders do in recalling Normandy. And, in case you missed it, German Chancellor Merkel was at the D-Day celebration, and it was her country that was defeated. So what does that say about your non-existent argument?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

jerseyboySep. 04, 2014 - 03:31AM JST This headline is funny. How many of the Chinese "Leaders" mentioned actually remember WWII? Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai are long long gone. Ossan -- simply foolish comment. How many of the leaders who commemorated D-Day back in June in >Normandy "actually remember WWII"?

Those leaders represented countries that actually defeated Nazi Germany. They didn't commemorate the defeat of a country at the hands of someone else. Please keep your foolish comments to yourself

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The China tries to have better perception internationally, but they are having a credibility problem on how other countries view China on improving its image overseas. Still many people in international community question what China is actually trying to do. Not too many people understand the Chinese culture, values and institutions of China. U.S. is very clear with their objectives. U.S. policies are for democracy and values of human rights that attracts many countries. Most people do not know what is China's core values, and the character of China's soft power cannot be identified. China actually has no soft power because the values comparable to western democracy or human rights are absent in China. China's government has promoted the "harmonious society" but this has been taken as a joke by many of its own people who clearly understand the real purpose of the slogan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@flowers: I disagree. Your allegiance is to who you swear it to. It has no bearing on where you were born at all. Such old fashioned thinking is more harmful then any other. The only changes Japan truly has been making, is a effort to stand without the aid of the United States. People quoting the historical failings of their fathers are only looking to blame somebody else for their lack of trust in others, and their own personal misgivings. China, has no right to speak, with their policies of economic slavery still in effect. If they truly wish to wash themselves of their crimes, they should disband such practices, and displays of force that lead to such atrocities such as Timentin square. The same goes for America, and it's own Wacco and Ruby ridge, not to mention the incidents that have followed these.

Japan comparatively has a government that has not attacked it's own people in the last 30 years. All in all being said, in this modern era, with our own choice being made here and now, not the lasting grudges from 70 years ago, China has no right to speak and Japan has every right for the reforms they are starting to make due to America's protection of them beginning to weaken.

Let men choose their nationalities, their loyalties. Let them think and decide for themselves, before you just label a man born in China as always "Chinese".

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japan surrendered August 15th... after Soviet Union troops had been steam-rolling over Japanese forces on the mainland for almost a week and were knocking on Hokkaido's door via the Sakhalin and Kurile islands. As an American I'd like to say the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the cause of the surrender, but the evidence points more towards the USSR's rapid advance and impending occupation of Hokkaido than the bombs. Regardless of whether you credit the U.S. or the U.S.S.R. for the surrender, at no point could you call it the "Victory Day of the Chinese People’s War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression." Russia's the one who kicked Japan out of China, not the Chinese.

All September 2nd was was the day that the responsible parties finally got around to singing the surrender document. The surrender had been in effect for over two weeks already.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@flowers You're argument would make a lot more sense if it wasn't effectively apologizing for the gross misinformation by the criminals in Peking. Self-confidence comes from within, not from imagined victories over enemies from 70 years ago.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Common guys, it really doesn’t matter which political parties actually fought the Japanese, both the Chinese Nationalists and Chinese Red Army are “Chinese”. When you were born Chinese, you will always be Chinese. Here, we are talking about a country fighting with another country and not a political party fighting with another party. China was a victor in that war, no matter what perverse excuses or denials you can come up with. China wants the people to learn from mistakes about the war and not to repeat the same mistakes again. Because of the recent changes in Japan China has to respond this way.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

OssanAmerica Sep. 04, 2014 - 03:13AM JST While the communists most certainly conducted guerilla warfare against the Japanese, the bulk of the actual war was carried by the Nationalists. In 1945 with the exception of Manchuria, all Imperial Japanese Army personnel surrendered to the Chinese Nationalist forces.

The Act of Surrender authorised the surrender of Japanese forces to Chiang Kai-shek as Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in the China Theatre, not to the National Government of the Republic of China. This is clear from paragraph 1 of the Act, which states:

"The Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, having directed by his General Order no. 1 that the senior commanders and all ground, sea, air and auxiliary forces within China excluding Manchuria, Formosa and French Indo-China north of 16 degrees north latitude shall surrender to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek."

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This headline is funny. How many of the Chinese "Leaders" mentioned actually remember WWII? Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai are long long gone.

Ossan -- simply foolish comment. How many of the leaders who commemorated D-Day back in June in Normandy "actually remember WWII"? In case you missed it, Churchill, Truman and Stalin are all "long long gone" as well. Did that make their right to "remember" the lives that were sacrificed any less valid? No question, China's timing on this, along with their motives, are incredibly suspect. But does that give them any less right to commemorate this date than Abe choosing to express his respect for the "martyrs"/war criminals, like he did a week or so ago? In his speech today in Estonia, Obama said the following about Russia's recent conduct:

It only shows that unrestrained nationalism is the last refuge of those who cannot or will not deliver real progress and opportunity for their own people at home

Respectfully, looked at objectively, this comment applies to both China and Japan in regards the current situation.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

JTDanManSep. 04, 2014 - 12:08AM JST "Note Japan surrendered to the USA and her allies not to the Chinese, so effectively its a hollow celebration by those who are intent on teaching hate to their young."

The Nationalists under Chiang hoarded weapons, and fought the Communists. And waited for the US to beat Japan. The Communists under Mao fought the Japanese. That is why they won the civil war. So your criticisms, well, kind of falls flat.

I have to disagree with that, While the communists most certainly conducted guerilla warfare against the Japanese, the bulk of the actual war was carried by the Nationalists. In 1945 with the exception of Manchuria, all Imperial Japanese Army personnel surrendered to the Chinese Nationalist forces. I am not aware of any notable campaign by the Chinese Red Army (predecessor to he PLA) against the IJA. Taking a further step back, it's generally agreed that "China's" victory over Japan in WWII wasn't on the same level as the other victorious allies because China was without doubt losing against Japan until Japan was forced to move it's assets out of China to protect the home islands from the expected US invasion,

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

China.....it's almost laughable, actually it is!! Like everything, they steal it and claim it as their own. No imagination! But I have to admit, they're good at one thing like, everything that is wrong with this world. I'd like to elaborate, but it would take me all night!! Personally, I believe the world knows what China is all about. Lol......

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China must be having more internal problems. This is getting predictable

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The government of China may have preference, but it has no special regard for any foreign power. The dominant feeling is antipathy and distrust towards all who have come in to disturb the administration of its domestic affairs.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Note Japan surrendered to the USA and her allies not to the Chinese, so effectively its a hollow celebration by those who are intent on teaching hate to their young.

The Nationalists under Chiang hoarded weapons, and fought the Communists. And waited for the US to beat Japan.

The Communists under Mao fought the Japanese.

That is why they won the civil war.

So your criticisms, well, kind of falls flat.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Xi stressed that "facts are facts, that axiom is an axiom. In the face of facts and axioms, all empty and unsincere promises, blatant words and deeds will be in vain. Black is black, said a thousand times it can not become white; white is white, said a thousand times and it can not become black neither. All words that turned right into wrong, eventually be it self-defeating and self-cheating. Japan should very well based on its unfavourable history, be responsible to people and the future of the world, to maintain Sino-Japanese friendship and maintain stability and development of the overall situation in Asia; with a cautious attitude, remember lessons of history, while insisting the path of peaceful development."

Let's tell the young one do not have to believe words said by one that represents 1.37 billion local and 50 million oversea Chinese, because Japan have mouthful of wisdom....

Is it relevent to compare "invasive foreign cruel killings", with civil, revolutionary wars, rebellious, uprising battles etc.. that were fought "within countries", and we called those deads were"sacrified" timely on purposes and needs of their countries?

Happy finding excuses? Imagine how Japan "sacrified foreign deaths" to honor its "heros".

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It is fine to honour soldiers who fought for their country. Nothing wrong with that.

However, the Communist Party of China (CPC) is overlooking its own history. After the CPC took over China, 70 million people died, largely through starvation in the first 25 years of its rule.

In the 50s, the CPC invaded Tibet, killing scores of innocent people.

On June 3rd/4th 1989, students protesting non-violently were murdered by the People's "Liberation" Army solely because of their calls for democratic reform.

Today, the Communist Party has behaved like a marauding group of pirates, making claims to land that isn't China's. The CPC intimidates and threatens Taiwan, again falsely claiming it is a Chinese province.

No doubt, many of Japan's leaders are callous, disrespectful, and dishonest about Japan's actions during WW2. However, it's President Xi and the rest of the communist party that needs to learn from history, and atone for their heinous crimes against the people they claim to defend.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

They're victims now but they'll be victors in the future?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

More PR bull, what is it China? Are you victors or victims, you can't be both.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The hypocrisy of China chiding Japan for rewriting history.

And the present for that matter.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Yes, I agree with the above. The firebombing and atom bombing of Japan was done by the US, not China. There were no Chinese involved in the invastion of Okinawa or Saipan or anywhere else. I love going to China and I'm treated very well by Chinese, but the government is completely different. Fortunately, ordinary Chinese ignore all this.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

China wants to keep Japan fully pacifist because Japan is the only other regional power with the capability of defending the islands of the South China Sea. This is why Vietnam has forgiven and forgotten but China is making a big deal of it.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

This headline is funny. How many of the Chinese "Leaders" mentioned actually remember WWII? Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai are long long gone. What's funnier is that China must be the only country on the planet that celebrates the defeat of a country' to another country, China is so infantile that if it didn't suppress it's people and pose such a threat to peace it would be funniest country on earth,

2 ( +8 / -6 )

well typical in the Chinese way of changing history, within the next 10 years you will see photos where the Chinese will have representatives on the Missouri - then MacArthur will become the focus of why Japan became a problem- because China was "run out" of Japan during the occupation - preventing Japan from becoming a pacifist nation that hated nuclear weapons and really does not not like war

ummmm - wait - .....

oh well- truth does not really matter when dealing with China

2 ( +4 / -2 )

like the Chinese had anything to do with it......it's akin to North Korean TV telling their people they won the world cup...

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Effectivley praising the KMT which now runs Taiwan...... and China anyway didn't do it singlehanded.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Are they making an honor to Chiang Kai-shek, because it was the ROC that fought IJA not CCP. CCP were mostly evading the war hiding in far flung places.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The Chinese are good at taking credit of all, hypocrites

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Note Japan surrendered to the USA and her allies not to the Chinese, so effectively its a hollow celebration by those who are intent on teaching hate to their young.

Victory Day of the Chinese People’s War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression.

Get a grip on yourselves china for crying out loud. This is all akin to the performance of a petulant spoiled 3 year old having a tantrum over candy.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

China wants to keep it alive and they want to teach their own people a certain mistrust of Japan.

The only teaching that Chinese people really need is a certain mistrust of their own Government. They are the "enemy within".

5 ( +10 / -5 )

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