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Xi says Nanjing Massacre undeniable on 77th anniversary

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Convenient political tool for hypocrite Xi.

-17 ( +6 / -23 )

Hiroshima is a fabrication by the Japanese to seek sympathy from the world for their Nanking massacre.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To his credit. he also said not to stay in the hate, but look toward the future. Don't hate people who were mislead by a small group of militarists. I hope they can do it again.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

How unfortunate that President Xi didn't also mention that it was undeniable that;

The Chinese state murdered at least 400,000 of its own citizens during the Cultural Revolution

The Chinese state murdered thousands of its own citizens during the 1989 Tiananmen Square demonstrations

The Chinese state continues to persecute and deny basic humans rights to the Uyghurs in the Xinjiang region

The Chinese state continues to persecute and deny basic humans rights to Tibetans

And it is undeniable that all these atrocities are more recent than the rape of Nanjing.......

-3 ( +14 / -16 )

I hadn't realized that those things justified Japan's actions in Nanking. Thanks for letting us know.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

NHK denied a massacre in Nanjing, reportedly dismissing accounts of it as "propaganda".

Do not hate the sick people. Rather pity them but be cautious of the lunatics.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

I like China great place nice people,

1 ( +9 / -8 )

The lies that Japan continues to try to project, "it wasn't us" it was Asain people's dressed in IPJ Army uniforms or it never happened as we were never there, we only killed and raped 10,000 saying 300,000 is too much? Good Lord

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Yes Cricky - I agree - the number doesn't matter - it happened. Sadly we'll never know how many have suffered and died throughout history's wars and government atrocities... best thing is try to avoid them from now on.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The Rape of Nanking is very much in the past.

However the denial is very much in the present.

I do not despise any living Japanese for the Rape of Nanking. As far as I know, they are all dead. However, I do despise many living Japanese for denying it ever happened.

10 ( +13 / -4 )

I knew when I clicked on this thread I would find the haters quick to have rushed in and attempted to deflect from the massacre in Nanjing (which I have zero doubt at least a few of them deny but are scared to say so full out) by talking about completely unrelated massacres as though they cancel out the brutality of what the Imperial Japanese Army did.

"In Japan, however, some question that view. In February, a senior executive at Japan’s publicly-funded TV broadcaster NHK denied a massacre in Nanjing, reportedly dismissing accounts of it as “propaganda”."

Now, compare these absolute scumbags at NHK (who have the gall to talk about 'propaganda'!) with Mr. Mori who is saying war and the atomic bombs in particular are indiscriminate when it comes to victims and suffering, and who is trying to find the families of people who were lost despite them being non-Japanese and from the nation that bombed Japan, and you can understand why Xi and many Chinese leaders and even your average Chinese get angry over government officials denials -- which often gives them more political clout even! Anyone, of any nationality, who cannot bring themselves to admit the massacre occurred, say it was absolutely heinous that human beings can do that to each other, and say that such things should never be forgotten and never repeated, are absolute scum and should hang their heads in shame. Those who flat out deny it should be locked up, as holocaust deniers are in some nations.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

NHK denied a massacre in Nanjing, reportedly dismissing accounts of it as "propaganda".

One of the 12 NHK governors expressed that personal opinion. It is misleading to say NHK did it.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Can someone advise do the Chinese commemorate the 430,000 (and counting) Tibetans that have been killed by Chinese Authorities? Maybe the day after should be nominated! Xi Jinping is just another two faced hypocritical puppet that supports double standards!

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Many of the posts are quick to point out how the Chinese kill their own, but that has nothing to do with another country that invaded another. A country's own politics within it are its own and this blog is not the place. On the other hand, Japan did invade China as well as many other Asian countries. It also attacked Pearl Harbor on a sneak attack, and today the Abe administration cares less about the economy but highly on the agenda is to bring back Imperialism to Japan. That is dangerous talk in itself. I don't blame China for not trusting Japan. Can't say I trust China any less either but when was the last time China invaded another country other than Tibet?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

but when was the last time China invaded another country other than Tibet?

2014, I think.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-23790860

2 ( +5 / -3 )

"In a press release to foreign reporters, Tang Shengzhi announced the city would not surrender and would fight to the death. Tang gathered about 100,000 soldiers, largely untrained, including Chinese troops who had participated in the Battle of Shanghai. To prevent civilians from fleeing the city, he ordered troops to guard the port, as instructed by Chiang Kai-shek. The defense force blocked roads, destroyed boats, and burnt nearby villages, preventing widespread evacuation."

Talk about having the face to hold Nanking as your trump card in contemporary foreign relations when they're just as much to blame.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The world knows and Japan recognises and has apologised for what happened, now can we all please move along, or shall we keep dragging up the past for ever.

How about the atrocities committed by many nations over the history of the world does everyone keep banging on n on about those?

China wants to live in the past but still take Japans help and technology, don't you think they are being hypocritical and mired in self pity?

Move on, get over it , the people who are responsible for this are all dead n gone, the people of japan living today are not responsible nor should they feel guilty or be treated as guilty.

We have to listen to this same old broken stuck record a number of times every year from china, it is becoming a bore.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

The problem is Japanese actions not Chinese actions, the Chinese can kill their own people and explain it latter. The Invading have a lot of explaining to do from " comfort women" (sex slaves) to unit 713 seeding water wells with choler. That's very different animal to confront.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I hadn't realized that those things justified Japan's actions in Nanking. Thanks for letting us know.

Those are your words, not mine - I find it unsettling that you would attempt to justify any of these atrocities.

And as you are such a fan of the Chinese Communist Party (or maybe an employee), may I suggest you place these four events on a sign board, and walk around Tiananmen Square - please tell us how that works out for you......

3 ( +8 / -5 )

To his credit. he also said not to stay in the hate, but look toward the future.

He did. Yet it not mentioned at this time of writing on this site.

By the way, every Japanese mainstream news source is completely open about past history, including NHK. You will find more real, in-depth and and important stories as opposed to than the rubbish "reported" here.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Convenient political tool for hypocrite Xi.

He could have said far worse. He is correct that the massacre is undeniable. The estimated casualty figure is less undeniable, and has been questioned by historians who don't have an axe to grind. There is certainly a case to be made for it being significantly lower than 300,000 (a number that China will never budge from), but would still be very high in any case, and probably well in excess of 100,000. But between Japan's stance and China's, you'll never get an official figure that really attempts give the truth.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

By the way, every Japanese mainstream news source is completely open about past history

Indeed, I read Mainichi Shimbun a lot, for example, and I never saw they deny history! I don't know why all the people here speak how if in Japan the press and people were all right-wingers in denial, I think this attitude is really dangerous.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I hadn't realized that those things justified Japan's actions in Nanking. Thanks for letting us know.

Those are your words, not mine - I find it unsettling that you would attempt to justify any of these atrocities.

That's odd then. In a thread related to atrocities committed by Japan, you felt the need to bring up a bunch of unrelated information. If it wasn't an attempt at justification of Japan's atrocities, the only other thing it could be is an attempt at diverting attention away from them.

And as you are such a fan of the Chinese Communist Party (or maybe an employee), may I suggest you place these four events on a sign board, and walk around Tiananmen Square - please tell us how that works out for you......

You must be confusing me with some other poster. I have little bit contempt for the CCP.

Although I suspect this is just another attempt to divert attention away from Japan's atrocities.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Indeed, I read Mainichi Shimbun a lot, for example, and I never saw they deny history! I don't know why all the people here speak how if in Japan the press and people were all right-wingers in denial, I think this attitude is really dangerous.

Alex, those who waffle on about denial seem to be the most affected.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

' The CCP is a propaganda machine that works for the sake of their leaders.'

Yep, and Shinzo and his nationalistic bobble heads rather like the idea. The thick, twisted and plain ignorant have already swallowed the denialist garbage coming out of the right.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Watch Japanese right wingers squirm when you show them the article from their own newspaper glorifying the Nanking Massacre with photos in the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun from 13th December 1937 showing the "Incredible record" contest to "Cut Down" 100 people in the Nanking massacre. Mukai killed 106 and Noda 105. Propaganda? Then why did their own newspaper articles available in the Tokyo Hibiya library report it? Oops. These poor Japanese do not have more to say when they see their own newspaper not only admits to the deplorable massacre, but glorifies it and presents photographic evidence to boot. Even more amazing is that more non-Japanese know of these reports than Japanese. Japan is unique in the world in that foreign people have to teach and educate Japanese about this, their own history. No other country in the world knows less about their own history than foreigners.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

' No other country in the world knows less about their own history than foreigners.'

A bit extreme. Try spending time in China. However, in their defence, they haven't had the chance to weigh up the evidence and come to a rational conclusion. The denialist crackpots here can't claim that as an excuse.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"the country’s Communist Party-controlled legislature,"

They must have received more votes than any other political parties...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why are so many people talking about the Tibetans and human rights in China? They are totally unrelated! This is about Japan consistently downplaying and, in some cases, denying their atrocities during the first half of last century. The comfort women (sex slaves) is another issue Japan is trying desperately to downplay. Just man up and admit your wrong doings Japan and let he rest of Asia move on.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

psychologists have documented this phenomenon when people are shown information that makes their group look bad. they will deny, deflect, accuse, minimize, move goal posts, change definitions, justify

0 ( +1 / -1 )

President Xi Jinping, How can a nation attend a ceremony in Nanjing to mark the 77th anniversary of the massacre, whilst remain in denial of the slaughter and massacre in Tiananmen Square of thousands of students, you learnt nothing other than to trample over the graves from one massacre to hide another. Start by respecting the principles of international law, embrace democracy. Shameful sham ceremony.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

President Xi Jinping, How can a nation attend a ceremony in Nanjing to mark the 77th anniversary of the massacre, whilst remain in denial of the slaughter and massacre in Tiananmen Square of thousands of students, you learnt nothing other than to trample over the graves from one massacre to hide another. Start by respecting the principles of international law, embrace democracy. Shameful sham ceremony.

He can, since the US blame China, Japan, Iran, etc., all the time, while they torture people and start "preventive wars" based on lies.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Meh.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I huff and puff sometimes because the Chinese Government not its people, are as belligerent as the right wing elements in Japan

I don't think Chinese government is belligerant at all. I didn't see China invading any countries in the past years. Tibet is a peculiar case because it's more similar to a separatism case. Questionable, though. Now China is increasing her military budget because of US pivot to Asia. It's her right to defend herself. Anyway, China and the US have something in common: they hate Japan and want revenge. So, they could destroy Japan together, and the world it will be more sure, finally.

I am ironical about the world being more secure destroying Japan, it's just a small and fragile archipelago in the Pacific whose people is very old, not a real threat for humanity, but not about the common feelings of China and USA about Japan...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why can't we all agree that something like this can never happen again and that both China and Japan should man up to their own history and stop whitewashing their own history books.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

My thoughts long term would foresee a complete change of governments. A single market, not necessarily along the lines of a European model, but a union of common interests underpinned by a economic treaty. This would require a huge leap of faith. Experts insist that it is implausible for China to be governed within any democratic model due to diversity and scale. But to start both the Chinese and Japanese governments would need to establish a common trust or bond that could rise above all past grievances. South Korea is even more tricky.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Unlike the fact a lot of people believe, the Japanese government also admits it is undeniable on their web site. http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/taisen/qa/08.html

Even if some politicians are trying to deny it, the official stance of the Japanese government toward this problem has never changed. When some US politicians show racism, does it mean the US government officially approves racism? When some German politicians make pro-Nazi remarks, does it mean the official stance of the German government is pro-nazi. Of course not. I dont know why this logic does works when talk about Japanese government.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Wow. The international press again failed in its professionalism!

Most international major news reports avoided to mention a key point of Mr. Xi's speech (in the last one third of his short talk), where he basically said: "We should not hate Japanese, but we should hate the crime".

He also said China wants to have a peaceful relationship with Japan looking forward.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I dont see the point in bring to the present what happen so much time ago, a simple apologize would be enough; in any war of big scale the are not rules and humans stop being humans.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@arcieres

The point is the "denial" by many prominant Japanese leaders and a fairly sizable right-wing group. If there is total acknowledgement of the history, people will move on healthier relationship... just like in the case of Holocost by Nazi Germany.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I understand having such a day of memorial, but what about the day of memorial for all the Chinese killed and maimed by the European Imperialists? They inflicted just as much harm. But I know, Chinese believe in White History, where all that is gone.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@gokai_wo_maneku

Who knows, it might be on the drawing board.

Projects need to be prioritized and completed step by step. YuanMingYuan in Beijing is a great site for that. (You should read some of the introduction at the entrance of the site.)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

To the point of the Nanking massacre. It happened. People in Japan's right wing, which is where this denial comes from, should stop denying it.

To the point of why people keep bringing up Tibet, it's because China refuses to look at its own history and current actions, so everything that we are hearing from China seems hypocritical. Nobody in the region thinks of China as a benevolent actor in world affairs... nobody but China.

Countries do tend to look at the sunny side of their own histories, but sometimes the rose-colored glasses are a little too opaque.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There is certainly a case to be made for it being significantly lower than 300,000 (a number that China will never budge from), but would still be very high in any case, and probably well in excess of 100,000.

China started the figure aroud 20,000, and inceased gradually to now 300,000. But the population there was much less at that time, and after Japan left the population increased.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

To all those who take issue with the Chinese president Xi's speech, a ceremony being held in Nanjing to mark the 77th anniversary of the massacre and finally the tally of the number of victims that were estimated to have been murdered, please show a little consistency!

When Japan commemorates the bombings of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki EVERY YEAR, and every Prime Minister of Japan gives a speech, when Japanese remember the civilians killed by Allied planes during the fire-bombing of Tokyo, those killed in Okinawa or if these and other events actually occurred in the first place, you never speak up and demand that the Japanese MOVE ON and get a life! You instead show consideration and respect and rightfully so. You don't point out that Japan started the war in the first place and invaded most of Asia and was responsible for massive loss of life. You don't go on a rampage attacking the Japanese for the thousands of Koreans and other minorities that were executed following the Great Kanto earthquake of 1923, oh yeah, sorry, they were mostly Koreans so you deny that happened as well or take issue with the # of deceased.

Your racial prejudice is deafening and like so many of you when it comes to atrocities committed against the Chinese, Koreans, the Jews in Europe or any of the other victims of WWII, you always show contempt and disrespect to the victims and this is unforgivable. Move on and keep silent and let the victims and their ascendents grieve as they see fit, as you so considerately and respectfully do when it comes to the Japanese.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@ Farmboy

The current dictatorial CCP system is obviously NOT sustainable, given the florishing desire and taste of the expanding middle class in China. They are pushing to change many things in China and in CCP. Even the current regime is trying to appease the majority in Tibet with policies/regulations while having iron-fist rule.

I am hopeful that, in the near future, China will morph (driven internally) to become democractic and official reconciliations will occur on: Tibet, Xinjiang, TianAnMen Square, etc.

1 ( +1 / -1 )

The Japanese Imperial forces and the Japanese government did do horrible things from the late nineteenth century on, with the victims being mostly Asian. The KMT and the CCP did horrible things to the Chinese people. The Americans did their own imperialism, ruthlessly suppressing a popular movement in the Philippines, pulling out the stops to win over a ferocious enemy, including fire bombing cities, conducting unrestricted submarine warfare, and dropping the atomic bombs.

American leaders are mostly free of the burden of having to deny history. The archives are mostly open, and people can openly analyze FDR, Truman, Teddy Roosevelt even, and so forth, and no current political leader has any skeletons to protect.

Poor Japan. Many political leaders, maybe 40 pct, are in the "family business" of being political leaders, and Abe Shinzo just cannot summon up the courage to acknowledge that his maternal grandfather was not a great guy (and the American relationship with Kishi does not help on this score). Aso Taro cannot admit his family business employed forced labor during the war.

But poor China, too. Too many of its political leaders are stuck in the "family business" too, and they cannot easily summon up the courage to acknowledge what was done during the Cultural Revolution or even the Great Leap Forward. Xi Jinping is a good example of this.

I have lived a number of years in both China and Japan, and younger people in both are actually pretty clueless, which allows Abe and Xi to exploit nationalism. But more Chinese than Japanese young people are out in the wider world, and even though I do not wish it to be inclined this way per se, I think the Chinese have a better shot of ultimately becoming better apprised of what really went on than the Japanese. It helps that Taiwan and overseas Chinese communities exist as repositories of a different memory. Maybe mainland Japanese would be better off to listen and empathize with Okinawans who probably really did not want to commit suicide in such large numbers in 1945.

We should be past 富国強兵 and into 富国強平, but the only way to a get a strong peace regime in Northeast Asia is for Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese to develop a degree of empathy among each other. They need to much better than their leaders.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@ Mr. Perfect Bravo! Superbly stated... my sentiment also.

@liarsnfools I generally agree with your analysis. It is pretty insightful.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Please understand that most normal Japanese find these ultra-rightist types (Nanjing deniers) frightening too.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Imperial Japanese Army disgraced itself all over East Asia. It behaved like a monster and some in Japan don't want to admit it so they play games with numbers. What's the tipping point for an atrocity? Is it a mishap if your army kills one hundred thousand but if it kills three times as many it means you really intended to be bad? It seams to some minds there is a difference.

The War ended 70 years ago. War Crimes Trials were held and many of those responsible were punished. Let that be the end of it.

There is an unattractive human trait which is that many of us want their pound of flesh. Eighty years ago the Chinese were victims in that war. Now this generation of Chinese wants to cash in on it by playing up their victim status. Why? I'm afraid it may be to justify some future actions they are planing. Or it could be they just want to keep rubbing Japan's face in it. In China's thinking, in order to put things right, Japan must forever walk with head bowed. The Japanese must never again think of themselves as proud and noble people. All because a generation of Japan's leaders took the easy way to global prominence by taking what they wanted.

Punishing the sons for the sins of the fathers is the philosophy of an eye for an eye. Embrace that philosophy and in the end everyone gets blinded.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ Mr. Perfect

Bravo!!

Superbly stated... my sentiment exactly. (Especially after reading the newly posted comments of LuckyNeko, who did not get what you stated.)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

LuckyNeko Dec. 14, 2014 - 10:33PM JST

There is just one, tiny, incy-bitsy flaw in your post I would like to point out.

Those you say that were held responsible were NOT and HAVE NEVER been held responsible IN ANY WAY but to the contrary have been seen as martyrs by some and worshiped by others, including it's leaders, here in Japan. Yes, they were held responsible but not by their own and this is the reason the war has not ended for some and continues to be fought and will not be finalized till those who committed atrocities are no longer recognized as victims by their own countrymen but as the truly horrible criminals that they were. When Japanese politicians and Prime Ministers deem it necessary to publicize this need to continually honor them, even in the face of pressure from their closest allies, Japan will continue to suffer from it's defeat of WWII and will continually be viewed dis-favorably by many internationally.

LuckyNeko Dec. 14, 2014 - 10:33PM JST

There is an unattractive human trait which is that many of us want their pound of flesh.

Some of us would simply refer to it as justice which is entirely inapplicable here and your post proves this point.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Here we go. I lived and worked in Osaka for 17 years as a university English lecturer before moving to China in 2008 to take up a history position at an international school here in Shanghai. I came to this site to see if there was any official/unofficial Japanese reaction to the 1st official national day in China marking the events of Dec 1937-Feb 1938 in Nanjing. Apparently nothing, not even from the Japanese Embassy in Beijing. It seems that neither side is willing to use the opportunity for reconciliation or remembrance.

I myself have trouble putting Nanjing into a modern context because it seems so medieval in its cruelty and horror. Had it occurred, say during the 1894-95 1st Sino-Japanese War, it might really be forgotten by both sides. Instead it took place in the modern era, after WWI, after the enactment of the Geneva Convention, with modern photography, film, and newspaper accounts to record it, many sources by the Japanese themselves.

Japanese denial has so many sources: ancestor veneration, anti-communism, nationalism, post-WWII 'we were victims too,' anti-western reaction - there's no one place to start. Just imagine if the Germans tried to deny specific sections of the Holocaust today. Germany admitted guilt, paid reparations, and makes its Nazi past required reading in its schools. In return it enjoys the trust and good will of its neighbors like Franc e and Poland. Yes China has it's own internal dirty laundry it will need to deal with eventually but that cannot be used as an argument to deny Nanjing.

It is has also been ten years since Iris Chang, the author of the Rape of Nanjing took her own life. I often see the book on shelves and think of when I briefly met her in San Francisco in 2001 and mentioned that I lived in Japan. She had issues and her book had flaws but here is an example possibly of a historian driven mad by the horrors of the subject she was investigating. She too, was one more victim of this horrible atrocity.

I still do what I can to encourage Japanese-Chinese friendship (30,000 Japanese live here in Shanghai) but at times it seems to be a lost cause.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Xi says Nanjing Massacre undeniable on 77th anniversary

I agree

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Sven Aarne Serrano Dec. 15, 2014 - 02:47PM JST

Interesting insight and well articulated.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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