politics

Chinese envoy urges Japan to stick to past apology

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If Japan changes the language of past apologies with Abe's new one that waters down certain terms than it has zero commitment to peace, period. China is correct in this regard, as is the rest of the world (Japan aside, of course), and they are all watching closely for good reason.

-2 ( +15 / -17 )

“take a correct attitude, stick to its previous correct positions and statements, including the Murayama Statement. We also expect that Japan will remain on the pathway of peace”.

So the Murayama Statement is now acceptable in Chinese eyes? That's a change. One of the undercurrents of this whole controversy that is not widely reported is that in addition to certain elements of the Japanese political classes pandering to the revisionist fringe by threatening to wind back previous announcements, at the same time the demands that are made by China and South Korea are not set in stone. To put this slightly differently, every time Beijing or Seoul wants to play to their own domestic peanut gallery (in an attempt to divert attention from domestic issues), they start to move the goalposts regarding Japan's past acts. Such political pettiness just confuses the issue even more.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

...they start to move the goalposts regarding Japan's past acts. Such political pettiness just confuses the issue even more.

All Japan needs is a solid, unchanging position of reaffirmation of the Murayama Statement. Then there is no confusion. This is within Japan's power to control.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Does anybody actually believe japan is going to condemn themselves and their forefathers they worship?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

China is getting more PR advice with comments like this, but doesn't China question Japan's desire for peace as a matter of course and certainly if Japan doesn't agree with it?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

From March 9th, 2015

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, referring to Germany’s own experience, reminded Japan on Monday of the need to squarely confront its wartime past but also signaled that neighboring countries must do their part to achieve reconciliation.

Is today's statement from China "their part to" achieving "reconciliation? It does seem like a opportunity for Abe to extricate himself from a 'revisionist' position. Can he deny his obvious need to absolve his grandfather?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

From those statements you would think CHINA was the one who beat Japan in WWII. And it's a bit odd to say that the previous statements and apologies were "correct", when in the past the PRC never seemed to think they were enough...it's almost as if nothing would be good enough. almost.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

This is Abe's chance, this 70th anniversary speech on August 15th, to make a sweeping apology to the victims at Pearl Harbor, those in Korea including the women, and to all of those who were hurt by Japan's actions.

This is it. Say you're sorry, don't be ambiguous, say point blank what you're sorry for and then these pot calling a kettle black comments from China should stop or they'll look petty and ignorant and no one can even back them a little.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Will China apologize for starving millions of its citizens during the 'Great Leap Forward'.

Will it apologize the massacre of Tibetans and trying to wipe out their culture.

Will it apologize for the Cultural Revolution when intellectuals were either killed or sent into exile.

If there is one country which does not have a right to demand apology from anybody, it is China. The atrocities it has perpetrated on its citizens dwarf anything Japan ever did.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

A lot of people have been wondering what sort of statement Abe will make on 70th anniversary of the end of the war. My thinking is that with so much pressure on Abe from other countries that includes Japan's allies, he will not able to go as far to the right or revisionist as he wants. So his statement will basically have to be a somewhat water-downed version of Murayama Statement, which will be welcomed neither by China and South Korea nor by his right-wing supporters.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Will China apologize for starving millions of its citizens during the 'Great Leap Forward'.

Irrelevant to Japan's atrocities in China.

Will it apologize the massacre of Tibetans and trying to wipe out their culture.

Irrelevant to Japan's atrocities in China.

Will it apologize for the Cultural Revolution when intellectuals were either killed or sent into exile.

Irrelevant to Japan's atrocities in China.

If there is one country which does not have a right to demand apology from anybody, it is China.

Incorrect. They have a right to demand an apology for those who have done them wrong, same as those to whom they have done wrong have a right to demand an apology from China. One doesn't cancel out the other.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

ulysses MAR. 13, 2015 - 05:52PM JST Will China apologize for starving millions of its citizens during the 'Great Leap Forward'.

Will it apologize the massacre of Tibetans and trying to wipe out their culture.

Will it apologize for the Cultural Revolution when intellectuals were either killed or sent into exile.

If there is one country which does not have a right to demand apology from anybody, it is China. The atrocities it has perpetrated on its citizens dwarf anything Japan ever did.

When most people in the civilized world think about it for more than a couple seconds, they reject the idea of relative morality- the notion that the rightness or wrongness of your choices are decided only in comparison to the choices other people around you have made. Murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people doesn't become totally okay just because the government of those innocent people later invaded someone else. Holding baby-bayoneting contests doesn't become moral when the government those babies would have been able to live under (had they not been bayoneted) later embarks on a self-destructive economic plan. Invading sovereign nations and murdering innocent civilians is inherently immoral- it doesn't matter what the politics of their country are (or even more absurdly, will be in the future). That sort of approach to ethics belongs back in the time of Hammurabi. Thankfully, most of the rest of us learned how to get past that backwards little system of morality ages ago.

To put it another way, if the best the Abe administration aspires to be is marginally better than the CCP at the height of its brutality, they probably should set the bar a wee bit higher.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I like this concept.

J: We apologize. C.K: That's not enough J: OK, we don't apologize as much as before! C,K: No, go back to previous statement! That is better.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Irrelevant to Japan's atrocities in China.

Wow, you are ready to ignore all the atrocities China commits, that's a real high moral ground.

One doesn't cancel out the other.

Sure it doesn't but do you have the right to keep expecting apology when you have an aversion to doing it yourself.

When most people in the civilized world think about it for more than a couple seconds,

China has not yet joined the civilized world, so stop right there.

Can the high moral ground types tell me if Japan has the right to expect apology from the US for dropping 2 atomic bombs? Interesting to see how the 'relative morality' will work here.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

PM Abe's revisionism and denials of truth have created a situation in which a country with the most stellar record of human rights and prosperity since 1945 is made vulnerable to credible criticism by the leader of a country that has had a far dodger record of human rights abuses since 1945. This is foreign policy incompetency of colossal proportions.

Japan can pre-empt the Chinese and the Koreans by embracing truth and then holding especially the Chinese to account.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

ulysses MAR. 13, 2015 - 07:12PM JST China has not yet joined the civilized world, so stop right there.

You're just repeating the same fallacy again. Your proposition that China has not yet joined the civilized world is irrelevant- the morality or immorality of Japan's Imperial aggression stand on their own merits regardless of the later behavior of the people the aggression was committed towards.

Can the high moral ground types tell me if Japan has the right to expect apology from the US for dropping 2 atomic bombs? Interesting to see how the 'relative morality' will work here.

I'm not familiar with Japanese leaders expecting apologies from the US, but since you ask, yes, I do recognize that my country's atomic bombing of Japan was an immoral action. And I've faced critics who try to justify the bombing with the same relative morality fallacy you are operating under.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Perhaps they should just boil it down to "Whoops!" That way, the PRC and Japan could utilize the same apology.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, Japan must apologize to China because Japan was bad. China is a virtuous, glorious nation on the pathway to piece, in fact many pieces: a piece of Vietnam, a piece of Kashmir, a piece of Taiwan, a piece of Kazakhstan, a piece of every country on its borders.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

ulysses: "Will China apologize for starving millions of its citizens during the 'Great Leap Forward'."

Does that have anything to do with Japan's atrocities? Nope! And when South Korea demands an apology, what irrelevant comparison are you going to make then when they are asking for and deserve the same thing from Japan?

"Sure it doesn't but..."

BUT then you go and contradict yourself and say it does.

"Can the high moral ground types tell me if Japan has the right to expect apology from the US for dropping 2 atomic bombs? Interesting to see how the 'relative morality' will work here."

Absolutely, and many here still hope for it, with Japanese going over the US and asking for politicians to appear at the peace ceremony every year (which I'm guessing you don't demand Japan "move on already!" from). In fact, you point to a relevant thread (ie. this one is not!) that talks about the atomic bombings and you'll see me and many others pointing out that, as we said with the Tokyo firebombings, they were war crimes. So, now, despite being off-topic you've gotten a yes to your question. So will you now agree that there is nothing wrong with China saying Japan should not water down the message in previous apologies? My guess is no, you'll look for some other deflection -- and that is why Japan will always owe the world an apology for its actions, and why the issue should NEVER be forgotten or Japan let off the hook.

China is right.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Yup, China is right. And now know they can push Japan around politically, economically and finally (the Ace of Spades) militarily. Abe best choose wise words and remove Yasukuni Shrine from his itinerary. The world watches Japan.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

China is full of corruption, but having said that, I agree... just stick to the past apology and don't go back on it.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If China is now OK with the 1995 statement, just take the opportunity to repeat it and fix this issue for a while.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Seriously Japan Today, stop reposting this same crap every 5 days. Here is your article from 5 days ago, we don't need to see another: http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/china-urges-japan-not-to-lose-its-conscience-over-wwii-guilt#comment_1940688

In that last article I commented: "We've heard this "story" enough Japan Today, China makes this same statement every single week. What here is news? Please stop printing China's "urges" as if it were something new." and you proved my point so badly by doing it again this week. Give it a rest, it's pathetic.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So the Murayama Statement is now acceptable in Chinese eyes? That's a change

But predictable. It's more proof that China wants to keep this issue alive so I don't understand the need for another anniversary statement for Abe had already stated that he and his cabinet stands by the Murayama statement.

This is why this apology/statement business is totally unnecessary. Find another goal posts to shift, I say.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Nigel,

Spot on.

Here's a thought: How about Japan stick to its past apology , and how about China actually accept it?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

All is fair in love and war no? China should apologize for his military buildup and the potential for war being created

3 ( +5 / -2 )

China is not requesting a new apology. Is it rescuing Abe? Or showing that it is no longer with Korean now?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

China will just demand Yasukuni be bulldozed and a hate speech law enacted. IMO, the way for Japan to save face is to repeat the Murayama Statement, followed by a "Now slag off, you hear?".

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So some think Japan should go back on what they said? That is non much encouragement. Uggghh...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China will question Japan’s commitment to peace if it adopts an ambiguous or defiant stance regarding its wartime actions

The article starts with this line and everybody wants to ignore it.China questions Japan's commitment to peace???? Its like ISIS questioning Sweden's commitment to secularism(thats the best example I could get)

I am surprised people go on and on mentioning how Japan needs to apologise to China and forget what China is actually asking. Does anybody even see the bigger picture, or is it just inconvenient in the game of one upmanship to stand at the highest, self defined, moral ground.

You're just repeating the same fallacy again.

Its difficult to hold a high moral ground when you stand in the muck.

BUT then you go and contradict yourself and say it does.

Smith you need to work on your reading skills. I can point out other threads where you make similar mistakes.

My guess is no,

For once you are right, China needs to move on rather than bringing up the issue of apologies. The demand for apology is not in isolation, it fits right into their expansionist plans. It is sad to see posters falling into the trap in their ignorance.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

LFRAgain: "Here's a thought: How about Japan stick to its past apology , and how about China actually accept it?"

Agreed, as long as Japan adopts laws against hate speech that make it illegal to deny the Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, omfort women, and other such atrocities carried out by the IJA before and during WWII. Since that'll never happen and denials remain alive and well while the victims die out and history is rewritten, China will not, and SHOULD not, ever accept it. In any case, we know full well Abe's going to change the language to play up Japan as a victim and not the aggressor. Heck, many posters on here, including the one you say "spot on" to, feel that Japan was 'defending itself and Asia' in the war, and gave Asia 'education' and 'taught them how to take baths', etc.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Since Japan is sick of being told to apologize for something that they didn't do, they should make China and Korea shut up by cutting off diplomatic relations with both, and Japan should just go it alone.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

China hopes Japan will “take a correct attitude, stick to its previous correct positions and statements, including the Murayama Statement. We also expect that Japan will remain on the pathway of peace”, Cheng Yonghua was quoted as saying.''

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;''

Sounds China got tired to tell Japan to apology. Sorry for SK but China is better customer than SK for China.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China is realistic. it has been getting help from Japan Inc such as Mitsubishi for its industrialization beside Japan is its good customer. Made in China products are all over in U/SA, too. No need to be with S Korea. It does not wants a neighbor customer, China realize nothing gains with joining S K insistence of apology.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Agreed, as long as Japan adopts laws against hate speech that make it illegal to deny the Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, omfort women, and other such atrocities carried out by the IJA before and during WWII. Since that'll never happen and denials remain alive and well while the victims die out and history is rewritten, China will not, and SHOULD not, ever accept it.

This is a classic example of shifting goal posts where the opposition knows that it's unachievable in a democratic country with freedom of speech so that she could keep this issue alive. Not surprised by the poster who suggested this.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

and that is why Japan will always owe the world an apology for its actions, and why the issue should NEVER be forgotten or Japan let off the hook.

Totally agree. As for the letting off the hook part - it shouldn't happen until Japan fully educates its people on its war crimes, and enacts laws against further denials

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

China hopes Japan will (insert Communist propaganda and talking points)

China hopes, requests, urges, demands, commands, behests, clamors then just rants like a 5 year old in a toy store.

When will the Communist in China look in the mirror and accept that they themselves (the Communist leadership) have been the greatest enemy of the Chinese people.

Maybe when the Chinese people give those psychos a swift kick in the rear and boot them from power.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

When will the Communist in China look in the mirror and accept that they themselves (the Communist leadership) have been the greatest enemy of the Chinese people.

That has absolutely zero to do with relations between China and Japan

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Christopher GlenMar. 17, 2015 - 01:52PM JST When will the Communist in China look in the mirror and accept that they themselves (the Communist leadership) have been the greatest enemy of the Chinese people. That has absolutely zero to do with relations between China and Japan -

If you can't see through the hypocrisy, well, there is no hope for you!

In an effort to try and understand your hate I will try and see what I can discover!!!

Let me see if I get this right,,you believe that the CCP's atrocities/crime against humanity over the last 69 years (more than the Nazis would ever of dreamt) mean absolutely nothing, But the crimes committed by Japan's over 70 years ago are more heinous because they were committed by the Japanese?

Please tell me a tale......

In the last 70 years has Japan committed a single war crime against humanity?

In the same time span how many crime against humanity has Communist China or it's tributary state of North Korea committed?

I believe that you will side step the questions.....

You don't see the hypocrisy or the bigotry?

Communist Party of China wasn't even a state during or even after the war! The CPC would be just a bad terror footnote in history if it were not for the JIA!

Hell, even Mao admitted as much when you told the Japan they had nothing to apologize about!

But, why, if Mao himself told the Japanese delegate that he had nothing to apologize way back in 72', well, why does Japan have to apologize now? Why does the magical word "HYPOCRISY come to play against your side?

The CPC isn't any better than Hamas or any other Islamic Jihadi group.....They are all looking to excuse their crimes against humanity!

Only way to fight the insanity of Communism or Islamist crazy is by making Communist answer questions! But to actually answer question would mean to question them and their lies!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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