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Chinese general says Ryukyu islands do not belong to Japan

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I agree. Okinawa is to Japan what Ireland is to Britain.

-37 ( +8 / -45 )

and just as everyone is talking about Japanese politicians and their inappropiate and insensitive words and actions, China has to one up Japan.

China needs to get the last words in.... of who is more stupid. China needs to be first in stupidity or else....

Regarding China's claim to Okinawa, known as Ryukyu's Islands: Ryukyu kingdom were a tributary state during the feudal period, it's not like China directly controls and adminster the affairs of the Ryukyu's. it was the same as the Joseon (Korea) and other tributary vassal kingdoms to China, of which Japan wasn't one. So there claim is just irrelevant in this here modern times. The former vassal state would just tell China to shut it.

19 ( +21 / -2 )

Tibet was not belonging to Communist China at all. Communist Chinese Government is colonized Tibet and Communist Chinese must go out of Tibet.

36 ( +38 / -3 )

The U.S. military occupied Okinawa and some other islands in the Ryukyu chain for 27 years after the end of World War II, returning them to Japan on May 15, 1972.

And still occupies a large portion of the island to this day! AND that is what is going to keep these Chinese from ever getting this island under their control.

I wonder what this general has been smoking?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

So Okinawa is not Japan?? Ok! So how about Tibet?? How about The Muslim parts of western China?? Ask the Tibetans and Uighur how they feel about Beijing??? I'm sure the average Okinawan likes Tokyo more than the average Chinese hate their own corrupt Beijing government!!

23 ( +23 / -0 )

A senior Chinese military officer has said the Ryukyu Islands-which include Okinawa and its U.S. military bases-"do not belong to Japan", as a territorial row mounts between the Asian powers.

Sure. They belong to the Okinawan people. And it was the Okinawan people themselves that were pushing for a reversion of Okinawa back to Japan. In 1951, 99.8 percent of Amamians (constituting 139,348 signatures) signed a petition by the Amami Oshima Nihon Fukki Kyogikai (Amami Oshima Reversion Council) supporting the return of Okinawa back to Japan. Try getting 99.8 percent of Tibetans or Uyghurs to sign a petition to remain under Chinese occupation.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Yes, Communist China must grant autonomy to Tibet first. Then we'll talk.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

And China belongs to Mongolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yuen_Dynasty_1294.png

I think it's high time it was given back... especially if we have to listen to this kind of stuff.

22 ( +23 / -1 )

China has been reading up on world domination. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

7 ( +7 / -0 )

It's not for China to decide who 'owns' Okinawa, it's already owned by the Okinawans.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

What's scary here is that Chinese politicians don't always have firm control over a military that's populated by ultranationalists. Not many checks and balances.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

And General Yuan Lau belongs to the state.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And Okinawans are Japanese and this was recognized by the Qing dynasty. What's up with this general?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

China has about as much to Okinawa as I do to Eastern US due to the Irish settlements there...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Pretty soon, they will claim that Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Thailand belong to China as well. Then it will be Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia! What world are they living in?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

China has been reading up on world domination.

First it was the Senkaku islands. Now it's Okinawa. If the Chinese aren't kept in check it'll eventually be Japan and the United States that the Chinese will be claiming. The Chinese already have plans to attack the United States. Here's what a certain General Xu Guangyu had to say in 2011:

"if China could no longer keep secret its missile launches, it would not be able to launch a surprise attack on the US."

You give an inch to the Chinese and they'll take more than a mile.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

JeffLee,

I agree. Okinawa is to Japan what Ireland is to Britain.

100% correct. I have made this point too myself.

Okinawa has its own distinct culture, food culture, music and lifestyle.

Tokyo clearly doesn't want it.

-18 ( +3 / -21 )

Tamarama,

It's not for China to decide who 'owns' Okinawa, it's already owned by the Okinawans.

Oh, if only that were true!

On paper it's owned and administered by Japan. The US also seems to think they own it, or at least 20% of it to do with it whatever they want.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

Right, now before on the island itself I might have been able to be convinced that maybe Taiwan had some claim to it or at least that there might be something to talk about, in a sensible way, for example shared fishing or mineral rights... But this is just stupid China is just grasping at straws, while we have to be careful to not take the words of one man, much like Hashimoto and the stuff that comes out of his mouth, to represent the majority, they are Government officials in both cases..

.. firstly every Okinawan I have ever met is, while sometimes having a slightly strained relationship with the Japanese main land is absolutely sure its part of MODERN Japan, and even if it wasn't.. it certainly doesn't make it part of China or help them strengthen their claim on any other territory.

Where does the Chinese representatives faulty logic on this issue end.. Im sure where it best serves them.. By what he is alluding to that would mean.. NZ back to the Maori Aus Back to the Aboriginals how about half of Europe and parts of the middle east to the romans or ottoman empire.. Or even closer to home how about most of China back to Mongolia, and Tibet back to the Tibetans and so on and so on.. So China.. the world changes, political borders change so perhaps instead of trying to turn back the clock to a time that doesn't exist any more and will not return how about... Allowing your own citizens freedom of speech, information and concentrate on improving the lives, health, safety, working conditions of the people already inside your already expansive borders. Grrr sorry rant over.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"Luo emphasised that the islands were historically in a vassal relationship with imperial Chinese dynasties."

Okay, I'll use his analogy, since Mongolia ruled China then China belongs to Mongolia.

Oaky how about this one, since Tibet conquered parts of China in the 7th century and forced thhem to pay tribute that makes those part of Tibet!

So, will the leaders of the PRC head to those two regions and bow before your true masters!LOL

7 ( +7 / -0 )

All this nationalism in Asia is becoming really weird. China: "Okinawa isn't Japanese". Ok, we know about the Senkaku issue, but this new claim about Okinawa sounds so sudden and, someway, absurd. Japan: Hashimoto's claims about comfort women: absolute nonsense. Shinzo Abe's claims sound something like that, lately: Japan regrets his war crimes...no wait. Yeah, we regre...no, wait.

It's like if both the countries, actually, had decided by common accord for this nationalist propaganda, maybe to distract their own people from their inner troubles. What I said can seem silly, but stil...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Create a new case with militaries talks not a difiance , or using a global media for discussion. Interesting

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If we're using this logic, since Japan ruled parts of China... So what are they complaining about, again?

Also, it's a very amateurish way to try to put the Senkaku/Daiyou issue in a negative light for Japan. Absolutely clumsy and blatantly opportunistic. Maybe it got lost in translation, but I really hope he had a better argument than this.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Having been to not only Okinawa and most of the outlying islands I can say that the influence of China is far stronger than that of Japan....

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Oh really...What language do they speak in Okinawa?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

To those that want the U.S. bases and military to leave Okinawa, be careful what you wish for.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

And "Hu elected him king of the world?"

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China considered the British Isles a tribute state, and all the rest of Europe that traded with China for Tea. That's what brought about the Opium Wars and a conquest of much of China by Europe.. And as has previously been mentioned that means Mongolia owns China. Since I'm part Mongol I guess I should apply for a large chunk of Southern China, Hunan area maybe, because I don't care for the cold Northern areas. A Japanese Clan conquered the Ryukyus about 400 years ago, not in the 19th century.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Firstly, false authority! What makes this general an expert on this subject? Secondly, I don't see the Okinawan people complaining. AND, if Okinawa doesn't belong to Japan, then what country are they suppose to be a part of? China? Ha! yeah okay...like that'll really work! Also, they are too small and lack natural resources to become their own country. Even IF they became their own country, they would have to HEAVILY rely on a neighboring country to take care of them. From what I can see, Japan is doing a pretty decent job, so Okinawa is and should be a part of Japan.

Okinawa has its own distinct culture, food culture, music and lifestyle.

^Totally poor logic.

So does Hawaii and Alaska, but that doesn't make them any less a part of America. As a matter of fact almost every US state is unique to each other in that respect. So does Quebec, but that doesn't make them any less a part of Canada. So does Scotland and Northern Ireland, but it doesn't make them any less a part of the UK. Even, parts of southern Kyushu and Hokkaido have their own culture and dialect that is very different from traditional Japan...should they be their own country too? Sorry, but your logic does not hold water.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Okinawans speak their own language as well as Japanese, and Japanese is the language used in schools and commerce, also English to a lesser extent.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Independence for the Ryukus, he means? Or give them to China?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Compare Ireland to Okinawa is crazy unless you want Okinawa to be a republic like Ireland. I supposed you mean Northern Ireland which is still a bad comparison. If China wants to play that game, Japan can rightfully claim Formosa. China gave Japan Formosa even though they only controlled about 30%. Since China did bring up the subject of tributes, maybe Okinawa should sue China in international court for a return of their tribute, protection money, since China didn't do anything to protect the Ryukyu Kingdom from Japan when Japan took them over. I think Okinawa has a better case then China has.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Woaw, all these heated arguments, the general is right about one thing, Okinawa was always its own kingdom and joined japan in the lat 1800's Okinawan people have the last say in this.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China is continually proving to the world that it is not ready to be taken seriously.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Some one should remind that Chinese that we Turkish used to give them good lessons not to occupied some one else lands in the history. If today's Chinese talking about everywhere is belong to them so the part of China was used to belong to Turkish Hun Empire if you know little bit history. If you know little bit history then you will know why the Chines had to build that great wall... ! So for now it's better any Chinese just shut up and do your own poor work.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And China has handed Abe the removal of Article 9 on a silver platter.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Australia doesn't belong to Australia the US doesn't belong to the US, stop living 100 years in the past china!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Well Tibet is a good point but the truth of the matter is that no country or nobody really owns anything at all. That is just an illusion. You do not even own your car.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Readers, no more analogies about other countries please. Focus your comments on the story.

ALL your base are belong to us

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@bertie

The US also seems to think they own it, or at least 20% of it to do with it whatever they want.

That's what the the Okinawans and Japanese media talking points want people like you and the public to believe and so far, they have been doing a good job at it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh really...What language do they speak in Okinawa?

Okinawan (Uchinaaguchi)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oh really...What language do they speak in Okinawa?

Last time I checked, people in Okinawa speak Japanese and sometimes throw out some Okinawan expressions to impress tourists. Even to each other, they speak Japanese but have an accent. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that people speak a completely different language. It is nothing like the way Hawaiians use pidgin.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The reason China is continuously making these outrageous territorial claims is simple: China is hemmed in on all sides. Of course China has a very long coastline to the southeast, but her navy will always be sitting ducks for land based assets of Korea and Japan to the east, Vietnam and the Philippines to the south, who are all just minutes out to sea from China's coast. Just look at a map. China can never be a major sea power as a result. All her surface vessels would be at the bottom of the sea 30 minutes after any major sea battle. China has pushed all her neighbor into the arms of the United States. Vietnam would not shy way from a hot war with China, and soon, the Koreans will finally figure out it is China that is propping up North Korea, and causing their country to be fractured. China would dare not embark on any sea invasion of her neighbors, mainly, because it is impossible, and finally, and the world would finally lose it's irrational deference towards China, and the rich ruling elite know this.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Why is this news?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Major General Luo Yuan: Those ties did not necessarily mean they were part of China, he said, adding: “But we can be certain of one point. The Ryukyus don’t belong to Japan.” “If the Ryukyus don’t belong to you,” he said, referring to Tokyo, “how can you talk about the Diaoyus?”

Everyone calm please! He does not represent a civilized China's view anyway. Majority of Chinese people are smart and peace loving in China's "peaceful rise", no ill intention. Only few (billions) brainwashed nationalist thugs are dangerous to neighbors and this world. Nothing to worry about!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Nobody should respect a country that bans a website as innocent as Facebook... When that country speaks, everybody should just walk away and laugh... China is a joke and should be treated as such.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Gentleman I am not anti-the Chinese government Am I? Including all above this mentioned. My thought is The continental need to create a regionally pressure over the border island specifically not for a businesses or orther long term strategic comprehenshion over there. They didn't point or refered to the history records more than a hundred year thorughout the topic talks of issue. This is the charisma gaming to measured some things before the new empire strike back. Just individualized mediator.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

and sometimes throw out some Okinawan expressions to impress tourists.

....Wow....So Okinanawns only use thier dialect to impress tourists. Incredible comment there.

Last time I checked, a few months ago...I visited a bldg that I am having built, the construction workers were talking to the young Site Forman in 100% Okinawan Dialect. There were no tourist around.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And the general's opinion matters not.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It's one thing when some small extreme rightwing nationalists say things like this. And it's something else when a high ranking offer in the Chinese military says it. 70-80 years ago the United States and a great many other countries went to war because some countries displayed exactly this kind of behavior. The result was a great number of deaths and suffering. China needs to be smacked with a 4 x 4.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

chinese scholars are doing researches on okinawa and other countries rather than their own unchecked and unbalanced govn't...i hope such scholars also already conducted a public opinion poll or some kind of survey to prove that okinawans themselves also want to be part of china rather than japan..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh man, is one thing for politicians to say stuff like this but Gen Yuan? Gen, please leave such double talk and nonsensical comments to the politbureau and stick to commenting on Sun Tzu please.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why is it, the Chinese are starting to FLEX their muscles now that they have a lot of the American money by using SLAVE LABOR to manufacture goods that are flooding the World. Somebody has to slap them down a notch or two before real trouble breaks out.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The best way to deal with the silly burghers is to just laugh at them; everyone else is.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Having been to not only Okinawa and most of the outlying islands I can say that the influence of China is far stronger than that of Japan....

Having lived here for over 25 years I can tell you that this is not true. We speak Japanese down here, not Chinese, we eat mostly Japanese food or Okinawan food and Chinese at a rest. Our schools here use Japanese MEXT curriculum, not Chinese, the people have Japanese passports not Okinawan or Chinese.

We get nearly 5 million tourists from mainland Japan and maybe a couple hundred thousand from China, mainly Taiwan. The businesses are nearly 100% Japanese owned, we pay taxes to Japan and not China.

The only thing that is influenced here more from China than Japan is Shuri castle really. Otherwise not much else.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@thywillbedone

The reason China is continuously making these outrageous territorial claims is simple: China is hemmed in on all sides. Of course China has a very long coastline to the southeast, but her navy will always be sitting ducks for land based assets of Korea and Japan to the east, Vietnam and the Philippines to the south, who are all just minutes out to sea from China's coast. Just look at a map. China can never be a major sea power as a result. All her surface vessels would be at the bottom of the sea 30 minutes after any major sea battle. China has pushed all her neighbor into the arms of the United States. Vietnam would not shy way from a hot war with China, and soon, the Koreans will finally figure out it is China that is propping up North Korea, and causing their country to be fractured. China would dare not embark on any sea invasion of her neighbors, mainly, because it is impossible, and finally, and the world would finally lose it's irrational deference towards China, and the rich ruling elite know this.

I won't be quite so pessimistic (or optimistic, depending on your POV) that they can't. It is true that geopolitically, China is surrounded and countries like Japan are in Britain's geographic spot relative to Germany (China). And of course China also has long land borders that need some looking after, thus diverting resources from the sea. So if the other countries are roughly equal in power to China, yes, China can never break out.

Unfortunately, this is not true and if China's vessels are minutes from Vietnam's air force, the opposite is also true and the Chinese Air Force is much bigger and stronger. Yes, if the combined strength of the SE Asia and East Asia air forces are at least marginally comparable with China's and they operate in concert, China would be in trouble but this is not true.

That's not to say China is not in a geopolitically inferior position. Getting a foothold on say Okinawa would greatly improve their geopolitical lot.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oh really...What language do they speak in Okinawa?

Which sadly is a dying language here as the younger generations are not learning it as they once did at home from Grandma and Grandpa.

Just about everything culturally here in Okinawa is rooted in the language, the dance, the music, the singing, etc. There is a small movement in trying to get more people to use the language but with so many different dialects even on the main island alone it's hard to pick which is "true" uchinaguchi or Okinawa hougen.

Shuri-ben (dialect) was the language of the kings, but each district has their own pretty much distinctive dialect and the outer islands even more.

I can understand quite a bit of hougen and speak some as well, but it is difficult to pick up as just about everyone who speaks it now a days mixes it with Japanese.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki, thanks for your well written response. What you said about China's relative strength vis a vis Vietnam is certainly true at present, but China would be foolish in the extreme to make any aggressive move against VN because VN has a white-hot loathing hatred of China, and would not hesitate for a micro-second to engage China in a hot war, even if it were suicidal for her to do so. VN regards China as an existential threat, and has a 1000 year history of resisting Chinese imperialism, and the world now sees that the era of Chinese expansionist ambition is not over. The rest of the world will not stand still.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

More delusional comments that really require no comment.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

See where it all goes with China?!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Chinese diplomacy.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Has anyone checked out who this Luo guy is? Well I did, apparently, the guy is a mouthpiece for the PLA hardliners. Although he does not represent China's pov. He does say a lot of things that represent the PLA pov.

Should he be taken seriously? If in the incoming months, we see an increase of this tone from not just the PLA brass but the foreign ministry, not the foreign minister but the higher up of the State Councilor's office. Then it means China is really serious about making life miserable for Japan. At the very least, China has unlimited spending just to incite civil unrest in Okinawa. That alone will cause tremendous soft influence in the region.

However, looking at who this Luo guy is, I think its much to do about nothing. He's just floating things out to mess with Japan. I don't care China cares one bit about Okinawa. If you ignore them, things will just move along.

Now to the much bigger issue.... I don't ever want to hear Japanese or Okinawans protest about US military base in Japan or Okinawa. Without us being there, think about the likely consequences. It'll be too late to appreciate things when you no longer have them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japan has own those islands for a long time, but why does the Chinese government still dispute them? It seems that China doesn't have enough evidences to prove that it deserves to own Senkakus.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well I did, apparently, the guy is a mouthpiece for the PLA hardliners.

So in effect, and at the risk of getting this deleted because I am not being polite to Hashimoto or Ishihara Shintaro....this guy is the Chinese military version of those two? As in open mouth exchange feet and dig a deeper hole?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't ever want to hear Japanese or Okinawans protest about US military base in Japan or Okinawa. Without us being there,

Well I guess then you wont be participating here too much more when these topics pop up. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that people have to take what you say hook, line and sinker. Everyone has their own opinions and thoughts on the matter and it doesnt make yours 100 right either.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan has own those islands for a long time

Since 1895. In theory, Japan is a landlord of Okinawa.

why does the Chinese government still dispute them?

Because they want to show that territory issue can not settle with backroom deal. Abe used to talk touch and intimidation. However he did not use force so far. He understand that if he use force, he has to win absolutely. If he lose, he will lose more Islands.

China doesn't have enough evidences to prove that it deserves to own Senkakus.

So am Japan. Japan is frustrated landlord who is impotent to make commercial gain from Senkaku.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Since 1895. In theory, Japan is a landlord of Okinawa.

In theory? How much of the history do you know? The Ryukyu islands were a vassal state of Satsuma since 1609, and officially became a prefecture of Japan in 1879. It maintained both it's relationship with China and Satsuma together during the period. However even as far back as the mid-1300's there is evidence that the Ryukyu's were paying tribute to Edo as well.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I hope the general also realizes that if he applies this same reasoning to China, there are parts of China that should be returned to independence. i.e. Tibet

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don't know much about history of Ryuku kungdom, but I do know that the right to rule is base upon the people choice and the people in Okinawa certainly see themselves as Japanese and prefer to stay under Japan. But I guess communists country like China won't understand that.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Next another Chinese nuisance will say............Japan Island do not belong to Japan, by history Japan Island belong to China during the Great Emperor blah blah blah. ha ha ha ha.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Kobuta ChanMAY. 17, 2013 - 06:58AM JST Tibet was not belonging to Communist China at all. Communist Chinese Government is colonized Tibet and Communist Chinese must go out of Tibet.

BEST COMMENT EVER.... hands down!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan has own those islands for a long time, but why does the Chinese government still dispute them?

China do have the rights to question on the sovereignty of Ryukyu since Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan in WWII) says:

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we (US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

And this right of China is endorsed by Japan in its Imperial Rescript of Surrender and the Japanese Instrument of Surrender (agreement to the terms of surrender) which says:

"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China and Great Britain on 26 July 1945, at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.

We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under Japanese control wherever situated."

And Japan further endorsed this right of China in the 1972 China-Japan treaty which says:

"The Government of Japan fully understands and respects this stand of the Government of the People's Republic of China, and it firmly maintains its stand under Article 8 of the Potsdam Proclamation."

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Independence for the Ryukus, he means? Or give them to China?

From the following disclosed US document, it is very clear that China was willing to accept independence of Ryukyu at the Cairo Conference in 1943 just as they accepted the independence of Korea, another vassal state of China.

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization. (UN trusteeship as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty?)""

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

And it was the Okinawan people themselves that were pushing for a reversion of Okinawa back to Japan.

The people of Ryukyu did agree to the return of administration of Ryukyu to Japan on one condition – that Japan drives out the American occupying forces or all US military personnel on the islands. Japan however rejected the offer.

At the end, the Americans did transfer the administrative rights of Ryukyu to Japan without consulting the Ryukyuans but said the transfer of the administrative rights will have nothing to do with the final sovereignty of Ryukyu in the following statement:

"The United States believes that a return of administrative rights over those islands to Japan, from which the rights were received, can in no way prejudice any underlying claims. The United States cannot add to the legal rights Japan possessed before it transferred administration of the islands to us, nor can the United States, by giving back what it received, diminish the rights of other claimants."

It is therefore only logical to conclude that the final sovereignty of Ryukyu is still an unsettled issue and should be settled through the UN trusteeship system as agreed between President Roosevelt and Chiang Kai Shek at the Cairo Conference in 1943 and as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty signed between the US and Japan in 1951 which says:

"Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29° north latitude (including the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands)"

By the way, the UN trusteeship system did help many countries to gain independence since its foundation.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

70-80 years ago the United States and a great many other countries went to war because some countries displayed exactly this kind of behavior. The result was a great number of deaths and suffering.

Yes, Japan's invasion of Asia during its period of fascist expansion (1868-1945 also known as State Shinto period) caused the lives of tens of million of people, mostly Asian. And the establishment of peace based on the series of peace treaties/ agreements such as Potsdam Declaration, Japanese Instrument of Surrender, San Francisco Peace Treaty and etc. will not be possible without the sacrifice of these lives.

Therefore, let's urge Japan to abide by these peace treaties which Japan has tried to overturn since the 1970s by reclaiming the territories it lost to the Allies in these treaties such as the Ryukyus.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I guess that one explanation for this seemingly Hashimotian claim from the general must be that Chinese military love Abe and his policy. They are certainly doing a good job at fueling his campaigns. However quite clever to test Japans and the worlds reactions with a rather unknown name. Easy to back down from.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What is interesting is from what I understand, most Japanese do not feel Okinawans are Japanese.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What is interesting is from what I understand, most Japanese do not feel Okinawans are Japanese.

Don't confuse ethnicity and nationality.

Too many people, Japanese included can not seem to separate the two.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Guru...you are so far off base it's laughable. And wrong too.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Next, they'll claim the Chugoku region of Japan is theirs because of the name and the East capital, Tokyo, is actually a suburb of the North capital, Peking(Beijing).

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Now I am waiting for the China News Service to interview this good general about his opinion about Tibet.... should it remain under Chinese occupation, or not?

But I guess should not hold my breath...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yubaru May. 17, 2013 - 01:16PM JST

How much of the history do you know?

What history are you talking about?

In 1477 The third king, Shō Shin, ascends to the throne. It was called as Golden age of the kingdom of Ryuku. In 1609 (April 5) daimyo (Lord) of Satsuma in southern Kyūshū conquers the kingdom. King of Ryukyu becomes a Japanese vassal state. It was not the beginning of colonization as you mentioned. The real occupation of Ryuku was implemented by expansionist emperor Meiji. Before Meiji restoration, Ryuku was free as bird.

Real colonization was started from 1429. In 1429, Chūzan occupies Shimajiri Osato gusuku, capital of Nanzan, unifying Okinawa Island. Shō Hashi establishes the Kingdom of Ryukyu, ruling as king with his capital at Shuri (now part of modern-day Naha).

Senkaku was never part of Ryuku as pro Japan die hard posters debated. Smaller Islands of Ryuku was started annexed since 1872. Largest Island of Ryuku was annexed in 1879. Senkaku became part of Ryuku since 1895. If Senkaku was part of Ryuku chain, Why was many years gap between 1879 to 1895? The answer can be found on

http://www.tokyoweekender.com/2012/09/senkaku-island-dispute/

Scotland will make referendum in 2014 for their destiny. It is enviable for Ryuku native too. The course of Okinawa belong to residents of Okinawa. Not a J government or US government or foreign expats.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Guru...you are so far off base it's laughable. And wrong too.

Wrong?

Which part is wrong? Care to elaborate?

Tens of million of lives were lost in WWII for the establishment of peace based on the Potsdam Declaration, Japanese Instrument of Surrender, San Francisco Peace Treaty and etc. You think these treaties/ agreements are just jokes like what the right-wing Japanese here believe?

And Japan's reclaiming of territories it lost to the Allies under these treaties such as the Ryukyus, South Kuril islands and etc. is a series matter which can easily lead to a resumption of WWII or starting of WWIII. You think this is laughable?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

It was not the beginning of colonization as you mentioned

Read what I wrote again. I never mentioned "colonization". Not once, nowhere.

Before Meiji restoration, Ryuku was free as bird.

Tell that to the "hostage" king! You are skipping over a number of important details, but whatever, still won't change the fact that Okinawa is a part of Japan and will continue to be.

China can go cry about it somewhere else.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

CHINA some months back - "SENKAKU is ours" CHINA now - "OKINAWA is ours" CHINA after a few months - "JAPAN is ours" CHINA after a year - "VIETNAM, PHILLIPINES, MALAYSIA, MYANMAR is ours" CHINA after a decade - "THE WHOLE WORLD is ours"

CHINA is trying to BULLY its neighbours n USE ITS POWER now !! CRAZY CHINA n CRAZIER CHINESE PEOPLE living in JAPAN n yet supporting those SILLY CHINESE POLITICIANS who they HATE more than JAPAN...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

YubaruMay. 17, 2013 - 05:12PM JST

You posted as

Ryukyu islands were a vassal state of Satsuma since 1609,

In fact

The Ryukyu Kingdom (Japanese: 琉球王国 Ryūkyū Ōkoku; Ryukyuan: 琉球國)historical English name: Lewchew, Luchu) was an independent kingdom which ruled most of the Ryukyu Islands from the 15th century to the 19th century.

Vassal state means a state with varying degrees of independence in its internal affairs but dominated by another state in its foreign affairs and potentially wholly subject to the dominating state

Therefore Ryuku was not physically or morally belong to Japan in 1609 as you mentioned. Foreign and defense affair, it was a big brother Japan domination. Not a state affair.

but whatever, still won't change the fact that Okinawa is a part of Japan and will continue to be.

In theory, Okinawa belongs to Japan. Reality is it belongs to US base. Nothing will last forever! Look at Scotland and Ireland republic. How far they have come through struggle? South has to rise again for their pride, dignity and honor.

China can go cry about it somewhere else.

Individual opinion does not reflect the Government standing. The fact that PRC and ROC ships come and go as they please since 1960s. Abe is the one crying loudly about his touch stand. However he was a PM before and nothing new about his hawkish stand. Life goes on!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In theory, Okinawa belongs to Japan. Reality is it belongs to US base. Nothing will last forever! Look at Scotland and Ireland republic.

By the same reasoning we should also welcome the eventual independence of Tibet and East Turkestan! Nothing will last forever, not even Chinese rule, especially with the way China has been acting lately.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Vassal state means a state with varying degrees of independence in its internal affairs but dominated by another state in its foreign affairs and potentially wholly subject to the dominating state

This definition does not fit what was occurring in the Ryukyu Islands at the time. They were paying tribute to BOTH Satsuma and the Chinese Imperial Court as well. Possession is 9/10th's of the law.

China loses.

Wait, it was the IMPERIAL Chinese court, so, if one is to take this argument to it's next logical step, for China to have any legitimate claim on the Ryukyu Kingdom, both must revert to their former status.

Again, ain't gonna happen, Japan 1 China 0

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yubaru

This definition does not fit what was occurring in the Ryukyu Islands at the time.

I guess you have been born at that time. Pls be informative about the definition existed at that time. Both in native Ryukyuan and English.

China to have any legitimate claim on the Ryukyu Kingdom, both must revert to their former status.

I did not see any single word about China is legitimately claiming the Ryuku Kingdom in that article. Pls read all my posts, I mentioned as Ryuku was an independent kingdom from 15th to 19th century. Therefore your debate about paying tribute to Edo was not solid debate. Big brother bullied small brother and used to ask ransom.

The subsequent invasion took place in 1609. King Shō Nei was taken as prisoner to the Satsuma domain and later to Edo. However he was released later and Ryukyu Kingdom regained a degree of autonomy. Japan was not unified as today. Again I have to post Ryuku was not a part of Japan in 15th century.

I am not a pro Japan or China debater. None of nations losing territory is not my concern. I will not cry for their respective shrinking map.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ermmm, they do belong to Japan.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ryukkyu didn't belong to China or Japan. It was an independent kingdom until annexed in 1879. I've visited several places that were once Ryukkyu, and they were all Japanese, as is senkaku.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ryukyu was independent but gradually over time and very rapidly after the Meiji Restoration, Okinawans began to be seen as actual Japanese citizens. This process started long before annexation.

For example, Japan went to war with Taiwanese tribes when they massacred shipwrecked Okinawans in 1871. At the time, Japan pressed China for compensation and replied that Taiwan was outside the reach of Chinese power and civilization so they were not liable. Note that they didn't deny Japan compensation because the victims were not Japanese, which should be the case if Ryukyu was independent. China, in 1871 admitted fully that Ryukyu was Japanese and the east coast of Taiwan was not part of China...

My question to the general would be, if Taiwan was not part of China in the 1870s, how are tiny uninhabited islands hundreds of KM away from Taiwan an integral part of China since ancient times?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sorry typos

should be

Japan pressed China for compensation and they replied...

tiny uninhabited islands = Senkaku Islands (in case it wasn't clear)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ryuku Kngdom was a strategic maritime trading hub in ancient time. It has been tribunal state of both Japan and China since 14th centuries. However Japan was more heavy handed to native Ryuku people rather than China or Taiwanese residents back then.

For nearly two hundred years, the Ryukyu Kingdom would thrive as a key player in maritime trade with Southeast and East Asia. Limiting trade with China to tributary states and those with formal authorization, along with the accompanying preferential treatment of the Ming Court towards Ryukyu, allowed the kingdom to flourish and prosper for roughly 150 years.

However good time were not last for unfortunate ancient Ryuku people. Their maritime trading activities were harassed by Japanese pirate known as Wokou. Japan has never happy about Ryuku peace and prosperity. They were gradually influencing locals with poisonous intentions.

Due to Wokou harassment and Portuguese traders fierce competition, Ryuku commercial success and flourishing moment fell into decline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wokou

Later on Japanese invasion and subordination was gradually implemented.

In 1590, Toyotomi Hideyoshi asked the Ryukyu Kingdom to aid in his campaign to conquer Korea. If successful, Hideyoshi intended to then move against China. As the Ryukyu Kingdom was a tributary state of the Ming Dynasty, the request was refused. The Tokugawa shogunate that emerged following Hideyoshi's fall authorized the Shimazu family—feudal lords of the Satsuma domain (present-day Kagoshima prefecture)—to send an expeditionary force to conquer the Ryukyus.

I agree with Zenpun Ryuku was never part of Japan until late 19th century. If Meiji was not born and become emperor, it may be still free as independent nation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

When Japan-China Peace and Friendship Treaty was concluded in 1978, both countries recognized the sovereignty of the other country over the current territory. No objection or reservation was raised over the sovereignty of Okinawa by China. Therefore, China has treaty obligation to recognize Okinawa as Japanese territory. History before the peace treaty has no bearing. Independence of "Okinawa" is an internal affair of Japan, and China has no right to talk about it.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So funny. The Chinese establishment really does come out with some good ones, doesn't it? And all with a straight face.

Luo emphasised that the islands were historically in a vassal relationship with imperial Chinese dynasties.

Erm, these are the Chinese dynasties the Communists disowned, no? oh please stop, China, my sides are hurting.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hey China, go back to being a vassal state of the mongol empire - then lets talk

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well any benefit of the doubt anyone was giving China over the Senkakus, just went out the window, by making these comments Japan knows it can't give a millimetre without China taking half of Japan. Pretty dumb move by China there...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Malfupete, if you want to insult them, at least get it right. China was completely owned by the Mongols during the Yuan dysnasty. There were no such thing as a vassal state. They got owned.

The difference between China and other country that got owned is that, normally, the being owned side had to adapt to the owning side. That's the exact opposite in China. Apparently, every owning side had to adapt to the Chinese or the Han at almost every facet of life. And the eventual outcome had always been the Han coming out top no mattered the years, decades or centuries of struggled.

Some of you need to understand something about the Chinese. They don't value time like we do with the western culture. They plan for decades and centuries. We look at things annually and at most every 4 years. I think the Chinese are the most patience people on earth. That also make them so dangerous.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yubaru,

Yes, its my opinion that you guys shouldn't protest against our military base that were meant to protect you. Why can't I opine my opinion that no one should protest against that? It my opinion just like yours. And I can say that I don't want to hear it. That doesn't you can't continue to say it. Its my right to freely speak what I want and its your right to do your thing.

Who are you to tell me that I can't voice my opinion? And in reality, what do you think it will happen to Okinawa or Japan if there were not US military presence? You may object but deep down, you probably know what the reality is.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

At the end, the Americans did transfer the administrative rights of Ryukyu to Japan without consulting the Ryukyuans but said the transfer of the administrative rights will have nothing to do with the final sovereignty of Ryukyu in the following statement:

"The United States believes that a return of administrative rights over those islands to Japan, from which the rights were received, can in no way prejudice any underlying claims. The United States cannot add to the legal rights Japan possessed before it transferred administration of the islands to us, nor can the United States, by giving back what it received, diminish the rights of other claimants."

Guru. Those are U.S. position on Senkaku's only.

It is therefore only logical to conclude that the final sovereignty of Ryukyu is still an unsettled issue and should be settled through the UN trusteeship system as agreed between President Roosevelt and Chiang Kai Shek at the Cairo Conference in 1943 and as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty signed between the US and Japan in 1951 which says:

"Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29° north latitude (including the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands)"

Again, you are missing the last sentence of Article 3 which concludes,

"...Pending the making of such a proposal and affirmative action thereon, the United States will have the right to exercise all and any powers of administration, legislation and jurisdiction over the territory and inhabitants of these islands, including their territorial waters. .."

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

At this point any part of China can become Japan territory.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

it was Their (China) Territory. But it was theirs in what? the 5th century or something? China Saying it's theirs now is like Italy saying Greece is theirs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Guru. Those are U.S. position on Senkaku's only.

You mean the US government have different positions on the administrative rights of Diaoyu/Senkaku and the administrative rights of Ryukyu?

How could that be when they were all administered by the same governing body? And how could that be when they were all handed over in one single package under Ryukyu/Daito in one single treaty?

So isn't it clear that the administrative rights of Diaoyu/Senkaku and the administrative rights of Ryukyu are exactly the same thing?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Again, you are missing the last sentence of Article 3 which concludes

It doesn't matter since the description in the latter sentence is already covered in the first sentence under "United States as the sole administering authority."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Because Chinese GOVT didn't bother to agree 2 social scientists, these two generals think they can get accepted better by current Chinese Govt which are too busy making money in USA. Not so. They are making fool there. These fools are worse than Social Scientist who were not historians. In my non-hsitorian claim, A southern china belong to Okinawa, and Northern China belongs to Mongolia. Okinawa should claim China. Chinese Govt will not be interested in promoting these new two fools in their Govt, I'd bet.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Guru29

Your whole premise is false from the beginning.

As to Okinawa itself, this is clearly written in the Reversion agreement of 1972.

"Considering the United States of America desires, with respect to the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands, to relinquish in favour of Japan all rights and interests under Article III of the Treaty of Peace with Japan signed at the City of San Francisco on September 8, 1951, and thereby to have relinquished all its rights and interests in all territories under the said Article; and Considering further that Japan is willing to assume full responsibility and authority for the exercise of all powers of administration, legislation and jurisdiction over the territory and inhabitants of the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands"

Hence your sentence of

"You mean the US government have different positions on the administrative rights of Diaoyu/Senkaku and the administrative rights of Ryukyu?"

should be corrected to

"You mean the U.S. government have different positions on the administrative rights which U.S. recognizes of Senkaku and the full sovereignty rights of Ryukyu islands".

That would be yes.

As to your previous U.S. statement on Senkaku which states,

"The United States believes that a return of administrative rights over those islands to Japan, from which the rights were received, can in no way prejudice any underlying claims. The United States cannot add to the legal rights Japan possessed before it transferred administration of the islands to us, nor can the United States, by giving back what it received, diminish the rights of other claimants."

is in essence saying that "We (U.S.) aren't taking the position of other legal rights we received from Japan in regards to Senkaku nor the other legal rights we gave back to Japan". Of course, this is when PRC officially protested the ownership of the islands after the underwater resources were discovered.

But of course, the PRC was arguing at that time that Senkaku were theirs because it's NOT PART of the Ryukyu islands, hence in essence, pretty much admitted that Ryukyu was not theirs to begin with.

And to this day (41 years and counting), the "official" position of the PRC is that it does not belong to them. This is further evidenced by the fact that when People's Daily ran an article about the issue of Okinawa, the Japanese government summoned the Ambassador and he denied that it was the official position and that it was an opinion piece of an individual.

It doesn't matter since the description in the latter sentence is already covered in the first sentence under "United States as the sole administering authority."

Again, as pointed out by others, the proposal by the U.S. to UN Trusteeship was never made, hence the U.S. kept the sole administration authority in it's entirety up to the reversion agreement of 1972. This is also covered in the reversion agreement as well.

In summary, China has absolutely no chance in claiming Okinawa or Senkaku in terms of international law by using these treaties and agreements. In fact, it's probably their weakest argument. Better stick with "XXX is part of China since beginning of time" argument.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Hence your sentence of "You mean the US government have different positions on the administrative rights of Diaoyu/Senkaku and the administrative rights of Ryukyu?" should be corrected to

If you can't answer my question, say so. I will not be wasting my time reading your replies to the questions that you ask yourself.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If they belonged to imperial Chinese dynasties then that rules out the Communist rulers of China, no? Perhaps the Ryukyu islands belong to Taiwan according to their argument? Perhaps the people of the Ryukyu islands should decide for themselves, then I suppose they belong to Japan...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It would seem that China can't remember what happens when one country starts making claims on other country's territory. Amazing how blinkered they are. Do they really think anybody else in the world is going to take this seriously? How can you even think to negotiate with a country that takes such stupid positions? I'm glad Japan is standing up to them. At least somebody is learning from history.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's true what the chinese general says. Okinawa or its true name the Ryukyu islands does not and has never belonged to Japan. Okinawa is unfortunately cannot be entirely blamed on Japan. The Allies just stood there and did nothing. We are just as much at fault.

However, it doesn't excuse China of trying to assimilate the rest of Asia. Their claims are almost ridiculous and numerous that I lost count. The ones off the top of my head,

China's claims are Taiwan, Diaoyu islands, All of the South China sea, All of the sea between Korea's Leodo island including Leodo island itself, Tibet, Mongolia, the list goes on.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

China seems to be delusional. Tributary state does not equal belonging to China. Hate to break it to the nationalists but they need to take a look at what tributary state means again.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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