politics

Chinese leaders may come to regret anti-Japan protests

41 Comments
By Chris Buckley

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© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2012.

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China 1890's no different than China 2010s.

Both fell because they bit off more than they could chew.

History does repeat itself.

12 ( +15 / -4 )

Japan 1930's no different than Japan 2010s.

Both fell because they bit off more than they could chew.

History does repeat itself.

China and Japan equal, same.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

chucky3176Sep. 24, 2012 - 07:56AM JST Japan 1930's no different than Japan 2010s. Both fell because they bit off more than they could chew. History does repeat itself. China and Japan equal, same.

Actually there is a huge difference in the 1930s Japan was Militaristic and Imperialistic these days all they are is Capitalistic.

China has reverted back to the days of Empress Dowager Tzu-hsi, playing the part of Empress Dowager Tzu-hsi is the Communist Party of China.

They have made grave mistakes thinking that with money comes power, but instead with that money has come corruption and mismanagement.

Too many states have made the mistake of placing their money in China instead of spreading it out like what any smart investor would do.

When China falls that will be the end of modern unregulated Capitalism.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Actually there is a huge difference in the 1930s Japan was Militaristic and Imperialistic these days all they are is Capitalistic.

Japan has been quietly building up their military, and now they are talking about getting rid of the anti military peace constitution. Japanese people themselves silently support radical right wing government. In an Imperialistic fashion, Japan has been expanding their maritime territorial claims against all their three neighbors. Not only that, Japan has an amnesia regarding their imperialism past and their history is full of revisionism.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

@chucky3176

Japan has been quietly building up their military, and now they are talking about getting rid of the anti military peace constitution. Japanese people themselves silently support radical right wing government. In an Imperialistic fashion, Japan has been expanding their maritime territorial claims against all their three neighbors. Not only that, Japan has an amnesia regarding their imperialism past and their history is full of revisionism.

You are living in a parallel universe. Japan's budget has been declining for several years now, while China's has been tripled over the last decade. (Why does China need all these weapons?) The majority of Japanese people favors peace above all, but are afraid of what is going on in China. Chinese newspapers openly talk of "teaching the Japanese a lesson," "defending the sacred motherland" (since when do communists believe in sacred things?). China, an upcoming economic giant, a massive sense of self-worth (its very name is the "central" kingdom), rampant nationalism, and now armed to the teeth. Sounds very much like Japan in 1940.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

chucky by 1937 the civilian government was gone in Japan. The military took over all of the important cabinet posts. The emperor was told what to support and what not to support. Today we have different political parties. Perhaps we should vote for the socialist party. The other 2 have made nothing but a mess.

I think Japan needs to call home the Japanese companies bringing along the equipment. They not sell them the high tech equipment required to run their industry. If there is no trade, so what. We will just make our own products, call higher prices the cost of freedom.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@chucky3176

Is that what they still teach you in South Korea?

13 ( +14 / -1 )

chucky3176Sep. 24, 2012 - 08:45AM JST Japan has been quietly building up their military, and now they are talking about getting rid of the anti military peace constitution.

I do not know about you, but if all my neighbors were thugs and bullies I too would be looking for more firepower.

But unlike it's neighbors Japan will not start a war, they will just finish it.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

JoeBigs, There is no such thing in the world today as "unregulated capitalism" (other than what are called "black markets"). They are all "regulated", which is to say controlled and manipulated by various states.

Others, Japan and China are very different from what they were a century-or-so ago. China is much, much wealthier and a greater military force, while Japan is less wealthy relatively, and much, much less a military force. What's more, the Chinese people (at least as evidenced by these protesters) are looking for China to go out and get payback for what happened four generations ago, i.e. not to anyone marching around with signs today, as well as for China to basically do what Japan tried to do 100 years ago.

This is one faction in a very large country, so who knows what China will, collectively, do. Two things are certain, and this is perhaps what China is banking on, the US is too broke to go to war to defend Japan and too dependent upon China as its great "trade partner"/"US debt financier."

The American century is over.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

"Mao was new China's first leader and he knew how to be tough on foreigners," said Shi Lei, 25, a seafood salesman from China’s northeast. "If he were still alive, we would be at war by now".

If Mass Murderer Mao were still alive you would be starving and living in abject poverty. Why do the Chinese celebrate someone who killed more people than Hitler and far more than the Japanese ever did?

20 ( +19 / -0 )

mikesboSep. 24, 2012 - 09:30AM JST JoeBigs, There is no such thing in the world today as "unregulated capitalism" (other than what are called "black markets"). They are all "regulated", which is to say controlled and manipulated by various states.

You are either joking or uninformed, if you have underfunded regulations and regulators bingo you have unregulated Capitalism.

Why do you think the world had the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008, an accounting error?

Come on wake up and small the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999.

Need proof, I can provide you tons of proof, ask yourself, do you have time to read it all?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

ScroteSep. 24, 2012 - 09:43AM JST If Mass Murderer Mao were still alive you would be starving and living in abject poverty. Why do the Chinese celebrate someone who killed more people than Hitler and far more than the Japanese ever did?

Bravo and well said!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

only a matter of time before the chinese people figure out that corrupt government officials are acting in their own self interests and not the national interest and their promotion of japan since the '90s as the national enemy come back to bite them...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@chucky... "Japan 1930's no different than Japan 2010s. Both fell because they bit off more than they could chew. History does repeat itself. China and Japan equal, same."

In 1930 , were there over 40,000 US troops stationed in Japan? Did the US and Japan have a security treaty? Japans SDF is has no aircraft carriers, depends on the US for a nuclear deterrent to China and Russia, and currently has no atomic weapons. can you give some evidence for your claim? Also, how can Japan quietly build a force with the US monitoring it? If anyone is building their military surreptitiously, its China

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Japanese business also regret about their right wing government provocation. Currently, Japanese electronic firms are strugging to compete with Samsung in Chinese market. If they sell one flat TV to each consumer with one dollar, they made 1.3 billions. Now LG is aggressively expanding market share now. Sony, Panasonic, Sharp and Hitachi world wide combined revenue is smaller than Samsung. In the future, all fims may have to move somewhere. The problem is China is the largest market and controlling raw materials of supply chain.

Sad truth is China can afford to lose Japan market. Not a vice versa. Japan has been in recession since 1991 and never fully recovered. The current conflict will bite Japanese economy in the long term. Japan has to change like Germany for getting along with neighbors. It is not the national interest for conflicting with neighbors.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Oh China, where is Mao when you really need him to put all of Chinese people in it's place.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

red china is offended that Japan will not kowtow to beijing like a coolie. This is the rub. Red china see itself as the new Qing emperor of all of Asia, and the other countries must grovel for her consideration.

They have one genuflecting coolie in north korea, and it appears the may have a few individual in the south gauging by a some of the comments above.

Everyone else views red china as an arch enemy. Vietnam would not shy away from a hot war with red china; their passionate hatred of beijing is palpable, because china has tried to subjugate Vietnam for the last 1000 years, and historically, china views the noble Vietnamese people as coolies. Rational South Koreans know red china is her enemy too. There is vicious cultural animosity between South Korea and red china: every honest casual observer knows this, because red china is the principle enabler of maoist north korea. India, Russia, the Philippines are also famously unfriendly towards red china.

Red china has declared its ideals by inciting ignorant mobs and raising banners calling for their death of Japanese people. Japan must (and will) adjust to reality. Economics are secondary to this existential treat.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The victory is for Japan. Now many people in Japan think that Japan should make nukes and powerful missiles to counter China. The world is behind Japan as China seen as a bully in the Asia. The ultimate looser is China.......

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The trend in market also started showing. Now people hate to buy Made in China. If the Japanese companies goes out of China and start to make things in other Asian countries then all Asia will be rejecting Made in China....So the aggressor is going to loose ultimately . Please note it the Chinese spies in this forum...

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It is too late for China to come to this.

The world media has written so much on China's political instability, and how China is not fit for any foreign investors. The negative message of China is very strong and it has been already listed on wiki's record.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Why do the citizens in China even bother about the island ? Just do your own stuff and live happy... Even if u win the island the one who benefit are the goverments... NOT YOU ! Why not enjoy life more ?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"'China should make its own demands as a great power,' said Zhang, a 25-year-old wholesale food distributor. 'I feel disappointed in the government. It’s not democratic enough and doesn’t heed our voice.'"

Sad to say, but this young man's comments probably serve as the greatest single argument against democracy as one could imagine, namely the unspeakable horror that would occur the world over if national and foreign policy were dictated by the average Joe on the Street.

Democracy isn't about acquiescing to the whims of the average person. It's about creating a society in which the most capable govern at the behest of the less and least capable.

Somehow, I don't think Zhang, the 25-year-old wholesale food distributor, is quite up to the solemn task of charting the course of a nation.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

" [the negative message of China] . . . has been already listed on wiki's record."

Because we all know that if it's to be found on Wikipedia, then it must be the last word on the subject.

(rolls eyes)

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Japanese businesses should moving out from Communist China. No more Technology transfer to Communist state and shouldn't sell high technology equipments to Communist Government.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

japan lost the most from this fiasco. japan had its heyday a couple of decades ago and since then, been on a slow decline. china is rising and it's not even risen to the top yet. for japanese, STATUS QUO should have been the best policy that can guarantee stability while saving face at the same time. once the status quo is broken, the shift inevitably favors the one whose power is rising - in this case, CHINA.

i blame the nearsightedness of the japanese politicians for this but then when i think of how they got elected in the first place, i have to marvel at the passive-aggressive behavior of the japanese people...

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Ironically enough Ishihara's initial acts have eventually led to the revelation of the kind of underlying country risks for Japan in all its dealings with China, leaving many of the average J-people in front of the TV speechless let alone those residing and doing business in the country. Don't know how much foresight Ishihara had upfront, but in a way he has succeeded in making his point clear at the end of the day.

J-business, if also intending to make their point clear on their part, should show no hesitation in suing both C-government and Ishihara for all damages caused. I trust the donators who gave their money to Tokyo for the island purchase should be equally happy if the same money is spent for damage repair for J-business, which I consider an equally patriotic act.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Them Chinese commie leaders can care less about you. Your export and businesses in China are completely and utterly meaningless to the Chinese. Because you are completely replaceable. They can't wait to use you to get to us. And now you are enabling them. How Stupid are you?

They care only about the transition of power. Once they are done with that. That new Xi guy whom is a super hardliner will deal with you. If I were you, I would watch my back.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

For those of you who call for exiting the Chinese market.................obviously you have not consider the fact that S. Korea would only be too happy to take your market share there. This is like cutting off your nose to show " pride "................

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

“Mao was new China’s first leader and he knew how to be tough on foreigners,” said Shi Lei, 25, a seafood salesman from China’s northeast. “If he were still alive, we would be at war by now

Yeah and he probably would be starving more of your countrymen/women to death as well.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Many demonstrators held up portraits of Mao Zedong, the late Communist revolutionary leader who still serves as a default icon of unity and resolve in times of international tension

I guess Chinese modern history classes in high school glossed over a few pertinent facts.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Mao was an idiot - who would ever follow him now?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Japanese nationalists and the US government are benefiting from this recent conflict over islands. Abe's popularity is increasing and the revision of Peace Constitution is likely. It's a good thing. The ultimate power struggle inside Japan is between the nationalists and those who rely on close tie with the US.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Sad to say, but this young man's comments probably serve as the greatest single argument against democracy as one could imagine

Actually, it's the opposite. A democratic China would not have a single party forever in charge that felt it needed to lie to its people about how glorious it was and how wonderful its founding father was.

A democratic China would have a freer press that could publish opposing views rather than just recycle nationalist propaganda. There could be a real debate about China's history and its relations with other countries.

And in a democratic China people would have legitimate ways to focus their dissatisfaction with their lives, by electing and firing officials, rather than having it channelled into "acceptable" ways like xenophobia.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japanese sovereignty claim over those islands is only supported by a demonized Chinese government?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In my possibly incorrect understanding based on a perusal of a three online sources, the Japanese claimed the islands at the time of the first war against China. The Chinese were aware of them. The Japanese seem to have thought of them as Chinese at least according to the colouration of a map. The Okinawans probably did not think of them as Okinawan, they are on the Chinese continental shelf. The Okinawans referred to them with the Chinese name on their maps. The Japanese first though to claim them prior to the first Chinese Japanese war but did not since they thought the islands were Chinese and that China would complain according to Japanese cabinet records. So based upon this possibly misguided opinion, I wish that the Japanese would give the Islands back, or at least become aware of the history of the islands because the Chinese are not going to go away or give up on this issue, bearing in mind that it relates to the other acts of imperialism that the Chinese suffered at the hands of the Japanese.

Sure the Chinese did not claim them back, until they realised that they were worth something, and possession, or administration for all this time (about 75 years from the time of the claim to the Chinese counter claim) so a compromise sounds like a good idea.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

JoeBigsSep. 24, 2012 - 09:49AM JST

Why do you think the world had the financial crisis of 2007 and 2008, an accounting error?

It was not an accounting error! Invesetment firms intentionally changed figures for decieving their clients.

Mikesbo is well said. If there is no regulation, that is not legal market. It is only black market. US is too broke to pay the debt let alone waging another war.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

95% of Japanese Clothing and apparel came from China. Japanese consumes a lot of clothes because after each season, they throw them all in the garbage or send to charity. 90% of bicycle with a price of up to US$200 are made in China. Japanese does not repair bicycle with this price. They just throw them and buy new one.

I hope that Japan should not buy those volumes of clothing from China and bicycles. Let those be from Thailand, Myanmar and Vietnam. I am happy to buy if they are not made in China.

I don't buy clothing from China since a year ago. I buy from Zara, Gap, Costco and they are made in Turkey, Vietnam, HOnduras, Spain, Pakistan etc.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Timtak: If things were clearly in black and white as you suggest, we would not have this dispute in the first place. Assuming your reference to your sources are accurate references, quite sure there is the other side to all of your points raised. People may argue that the map color issue was originally raised within Japan by a communist bringing up an unofficial map created in the Edo era which also had Ogasawara and Russia in the same colors while using different colors for mainland China and Taiwan. Some may argue that the Okinawans had their own names for the islands.

Bottom line in my view is that no one seems to have really cared about Japan's incorporation of the islands (ie rocks) in 1895 for decades to come, up until 1968 when natural resources were discovered. Thus I continue to view this as an issue of estoppel while knowing not everyone in China will be happy with this view.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japanese consumes a lot of Chinese-made products.

Japanese is one of the few culture and race in the whole world with no HOARDING SYNDROME. Not only in clothes and aparel and bicycles as I mentioned previously but also in TOYS.

90% of Japanese toys from baby to 7 years old are made in China. After one month when the kids no longer interested in toys, they throw them all and buy new one or new toy which is the new interest of the kids. When there is second or 3rd child, they will just gonna buy new one.

So China will lost a big spender or rich consumer. China will suffer more.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japanese is one of the few culture and race in the whole world with no HOARDING SYNDROME. Not only in clothes and aparel and bicycles as I mentioned previously but also in TOYS.

Um, I find that hard to believe. It probably has more to do with lack of storage options in Japan. And really, somehow "race" matters?

So China will lost a big spender or rich consumer. China will suffer more.

China doesn't care. They can sell them to Europe and US and other countries. Sure China loses some, but Japan will lose even more.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

O>berstSep. 24, 2012 - 06:37PM JS>T

For those of you who call for exiting the Chinese market.................obviously you have not consider the fact that S. >Korea would only be too happy to take your market share there. This is like cutting off your nose to show " >pride "................

Most well to do Chinese adore Japanse products and think Korean stuff is crap. But that';s not unique to China of course.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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