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Chinese NGO wants Japan apology for 1937 massacre

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and not a single proof to back up the numbers... shall we move to the next century? this is getting dragging

8 ( +26 / -18 )

Yawn! NGO? More likely to be political government-induced body. Under the CCP?

10 ( +21 / -11 )

Suddenly, almost 80 years later, they feel the need for an apology?

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Numbers may be exaggerated but the fact it was a massacre is not. It would be good for Japan's international image to make some effort to offer an apology.

-1 ( +15 / -16 )

I wonder how would Europe look today if nations would be asking Germany for apologies in order to maintain relationships. For shure the European Union would not exists today, it's the 21st Century people!!!

3 ( +13 / -10 )

Who cares what an NGO says? How many times does Japan have to apologize? More efforts to whip up nationalism at the expense of modern relations.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Sebin IglesiasDec. 09, 2014 - 07:34AM JSTI wonder how would Europe look today if nations would be asking Germany for apologies in order to maintain relationships. For shure the European Union would not exists today, it's the 21st Century people!!!

How can you compare? Do you see Chancellor Merkel or 168 German Goverment reps going to war cemetaries of German soldiers? No. Maybe millions of Japanse citizens still believe in what Abe and 168 of these Japan lawmakers support for the past action by their military. In 1937 Japanese soldiers systematically raped, tortured and murdered estimated more than quarter million civilians. This was more than killed in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, and more than the combined civilian losses of Britain, France and Belgium in the whole of WWII. . If these lawmakers are doing the right thing, why has your emperor refused to go to pray for these 14 class A?

Chinese men were used for bayonet practice and in decapitation contests and many thousands women were raped. Many Japanese soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls. Fathers were forced to rape their daughters, and sons their mothers, as other family members watched. Not only did live burials, castration, the carving of organs, and the roasting of people become routine, but more diabolical tortures were practiced. So sickening was the spectacle that even the Nazis in the city were horrified. No wonder these lawmakers still go to Yasukuni.

The real message of the war criminals being enshrined at Yakasuni is that no matter what you do, no matter how much suffering you inflict, if you have Japanese blood in your veins you are ok. On the other hand if you are foreigner, no matter how much they have suffered it is not important, you are not Japanese. Considering the suffering inflicted on neighboring Asian countries by Japan is it so hard to call them the 'invasions' that they are rather than 'advances'? If Hiroshima and Nagasaki are crimes then surely Japan's wartime actions are also crimes, why is it so easy for Japanese people to acknowledge A-bomb victims and so hard to acknowledge Asian victims of Japan's wartime aggression? Simple, The A-bomb victims were Japanese and therefore important and the others were foreign and therefore less than human and unimportant. That is the underlying fact that is hard to move beyond that for Japan.

3 ( +18 / -17 )

Could Japan do a better job on dealing with its past, no doubt.

But there is a serious question as to the motivation behind these groups, and I am highly sceptical that any apology, or admission of actions would be met with acceptance or forgiveness, even if those steps were made.

Would it be better if politicians stayed away from shrines, probably.

Unfortunately, the Japanese public, the ones that bother to vote, have chosen people and parties who's positions are fairly clear on these matters, and motivations for visiting these shrines and so on are quite transparent.

Is there much risk of Japan ever being "that" Japan again, no I don't think so, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for Abe or which every guy is next on the PM merry go round to say, after the line "Japan is a country of peace" in nearly speech, "and we are sorry for those peoples the Japan of the past has effected, we strive to move forward positively with all nations".

6 ( +9 / -3 )

We want an apology from china over the massacre in Tibet.

22 ( +28 / -6 )

Here we go....again!

7 ( +11 / -4 )

“We used to demand an apology in general terms. But this is the first time a Chinese NGO has specifically demanded the Japanese government apologize for the 300,000 victims of the Nanjing massacre,”

I completely agree with @NZ2011 in that Japan should more sincerely deal with its past, but this notion of demanding an apology is just plain odd. It is fully inappropriate to demand an apology, whether in the diplomatic realm or in personal relationships.

Clearly, this demand for an apology is a thinly-veiled attempt by the PRC to rally the Chinese public against a common enemy to divert their attention away from issues at home. With their economy increasingly faltering, the PRC is obviously running scared of a potential uprising at home.

Also, the PRC has a laundry list of massacres and killings in the post-WWII period alone that eclipse Japan's wartime record, with 49 million plus victims from atrocities that included Mao's Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, the PRC's invasion of Tibet. And this is not to mention the PRC's ongoing territorial disputes with nearly every one of its neighbors.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Even if Japan want to apology about this "war criminal", they will keep their calling about this each year (using like a political mean). Not for the history of China but like a mean to deal with Japanese governement (for money ?).

Don't forget the governement at 1937 in China wasn't the same at 1949 (and ... 2014). Tchang Kaï Chek fought the communists ruling by Mao Zedong but lost against him. If my knowledge of China is correct, Tchang Kaï Chek was in war against the Japanese during the world war 2.

Today the same "Communits" (a bit changed) want Japan to apolozige about "War criminal" from 1937.

To be honest, it's funny. Why the Republic of China want to protect the people (who were for TKC) ?

They forgot the politicians and people (killed by Communits) who were against Mao Z.

Even in 2100 and more more, the China will Japan to apology about WW2 war crime (for money ?).

And don't forget that. People mind can change.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If PM Abe wants to show real statesmanship, he needs to look at a rational view of the situation, who says,"This is bad for Japan, and I won't go." I don't know if that's Abe. Yasukuni is a losing diplomatic issue for Japan, but there's always been support at home, especially among older Japanese. In a political situation for Abe, what succeeds in domestic politics is wrecking the country's reputation abroad. And that leaves Japan goverment in something of a bind. If Abe or many of his goverment officials continues to visits Yasukuni, they could destroy Japan's best chance in years to repair relations with China and South Korea. If they decides not to go, they could be seen as kneeling and bowing his forehead to the ground to Chinese wishes. This is the politics at is worst in Japan.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

And I'd like China to be a peace-loving country, but ya know... pigs flying and all.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

When are the Chinese going to apologize for the invasion of Tsushima, Iki and Hakata? Last time I checked they've never apologized for killing thousands of Japanese during that invasion let alone paying any kind of compensation. I say 1274, never forget. And to top it off, the Chinese are trying to repeat what they did during the Yuan dynasty.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

″and pay compensation to the group’s president″ this is the best part.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

If China wants an apology, I suppose Japan would present it, IF.. .they give back all the financial, technical and social aid Japan has being giving to China along so many years.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Japan should publicly apologize for what the last "generation" did. After that china can shut up and not use it to get public backing for wars.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

actually Germany does go to war cemeteries as part of Remembrance days activities, and a lot of German Nazi's were smuggled out by the various governments to be used to combat communism - or in France's case to feed the French Foreign Legion war machine post war.

Even the Catholic Church had a hand in to help move Nazi's out of Germany post war- that is why you see Nazi's showing up in their late 80's after long careers in the states finally being "outed"

Japan is being kept to a higher bar than Germany- it had no Rocket Program, no Nuclear Weapons Scientists and a racial identity that could not mix in with the Russians- so was not viewed as valuable enough by the allies

3 ( +6 / -3 )

By claiming the wrongdoings of Chinese does not justify Japanese war crimes, Japan history. Any past apologies are nullified by whitewashing. Abe and his cronies are currently trying to whitewash their past war crimes by trying to rewrite their history or savagery. Japanese should repent for their own benefits. Remember Hiroshima. The sad thing is Japan has no one to blame for the Japanese war victims but themselves.

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

praack Dec. 09, 2014 - 09:36AM JST actually Germany does go to war cemeteries as part of Remembrance days activities,

Other than Kohl in the 80's, how many other Chancellor of Germany gone to the war cemetaries? None that I know of. Do you know? Why don't Merkel visit there? Compare that to frequent visit by the Japanese PM's to Yasukuni.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I think Japan should apologize. Not to NGO but To Nanjing (Nankin we called - Nan is South Kin is Kyo, capital) even thiough majority of Japanese were not bon then, AlsB o to current Chinese Govt. 77 yearsa ago. But it is best to show sincere apology for past sin by Japan. Just my opinion. There must be many Nanjing people whose ancestors were victims of Japan's aggression and massaxre.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

It does not matter if they kill a 100, 300 thousand or 1. you invade a country out of your own greed and kill one that's one to many. Japan has never given any aid China, they've been paying a fee not only to China but to North Korea that's been basically to tame them. This is a serious political issue and those who believe the Chinese just a had a sudden need to demand an apology or pay reparations are victims of their on ignorance, this been happening for decades,

-11 ( +4 / -14 )

How many apologies do they need?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Apology doesn't mean not merely a word or conpensation. What Japan is doing now are pushing its way to peace, having forces only for defense, contributing to other countries through ODA (despite of its second world lagest economy, China is the country which received 3 billion dollars in total from Japan ), following the Internationa Law, and etc are derived from the lesson Japan learned from the war. On the other hand, China has increased military budget year by year by two digit and is supporting North Korea which has militarism the same as past Japan. Does China want to be like Japan in the past? Before accusing Japan for the past, China has to learn the lesson from the war, that merciless aggressions to other states, like Tibet, Xinjinan-Uygur as well as others' waters might be a cause of war.

@sfjp330 You must be an honor student as for anti-Japan education. The Chinese government has focused on Yasukuni Shrine as a symbol of anti-Japan sentiment to distract people's attention from its political disgrace. China ranked 80 in 2013 and has slumped to 100 in 2014 according to International Transparency Corruption Index. It's more beneficial for Chinese people to focus on what your government is doing.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

The China Federation of Demanding Compensation From Japan

Less dangerous than pretending to be hit by a car I guess.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Are they just wake up today and run out of other phony works?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Now hang on! Before you go blaming China for digging this up every couple of months you have to consider how Abe, Hashimoto and that other git from Osaka have been downplaying and even denying this incident ever happened. There has been some compensation paid, but these right-wing knobheads that keep downplaying it are the cause of it being dragged out and reborn every few months.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

Just looking at the historical aspect of this.

Yes, the estimated number of those who were killed in the Japanese invasion vary. Most academic sources I've read posit estimate an upper limit of around 80,000. But according to the internet's most basic, vaguely reliable source Wikipedia, mainstream historians admit there could have been anything between 40,000 - 200,000. But the existence of the event is incontestable.

If you think even 20,000 deaths is not significant, you're an idiot.

No intelligent, educated person disputes that the Nanking Massacre (or 'foray' in Abe's language) occurred. To deny it is just a peacock'esque display of your own, wantonly ignorant nationalism. Please get educated before you go out there saying things haven't happened, when the rest of the educated world has already validated and accepted these things. I know life is prettier if you just pretend you live in a fairy tale, but ultimately, if you only educate yourself with biased, nationalist propaganda like NHK and the Yomiuri Shinbun, its the education of your children and your children's children than will suffer. Please read a variety of credible, international sources and make an informed opinion.
0 ( +5 / -5 )

Sebin Iglesias: "I wonder how would Europe look today if nations would be asking Germany for apologies in order to maintain relationships. For shure the European Union would not exists today, it's the 21st Century people!!!"

Your cut-and-paste argument follows the same non-logic as the last time you posted it -- and is the reason you need to post it again; Germany HAS apologized, profusely and on a number of occasions, with one Chancellor even prostrating himself at the foot of the Auszwitz memorial to beg forgiveness. Germany has made amends, and then some, and the countries in Europe share an amazing relationship. Now, compare that to Japan where many politicians STILL to this day deny any massacre occurred.

But given how this always falls on deaf ears and you and others need to cut and paste the same sorry arguments, it's no surprise the people who suffered want a SINCERE apology.

As for those saying, "forget it already!" and "Again? let's move on!", I bet you have no qualms about the anniversaries of the atomic bombings being marked, or people taking offense to Americans saying the bombings were 'necessary' and 'saved lives' (and you would be right in taking offense!), or don't seem to get quite as tired about hearing the families of NK kidnap victims demand things be resolved. Am I right?

-1 ( +10 / -10 )

"Sure thing, China. We'll apologize as soon as you stop being one of the most (if not the most) environmentally destructive Nation on the Planet, as well as that whole Human Rights thing being in the same ballpark as North Korea and Sudan. Deal? No?"

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@sfjp330:

Totally agree. If JP weren't trying to deny their war crimes, then I'd say "let it go". As it is, more attention needs to be focused on the atrocities of the past. Otherwise a repeat is possible.

-5 ( +4 / -8 )

It's all about the money. They don't care about apologies. They have never asked Europe for an apology, and they were there much longer and inflicted just as horrible crimes against Chinese. Of course, Chinese believe White History, so they don't know anything about the crimes of European Imperialists.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

How about a reply letter saying "Give us the Time Machine to go back in time and fix things up. If you can't, please look at the calendar and please look at how many times Japan has apologized. This is the last month of 2014 and we're heading for 2015. All those 1937 need to get a life.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The thug dynasty 1949--- History is never static. What may be true today can be proved false tomorrow.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Abe needs to make an apology recording he can press an button and play every time this comes up. It can conclude with "And no more money, losers. Go away now.".

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Don't make laugh. Japan won't apologize. If they need compensation money demand it from their government

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

War is Hell. Let us never see another one. What was that cultural revolution and how many died in China? Human kind really needs to move forward in peace, if at all possible.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@ALL

One person here said, that this may happen again. I would agree "History has been known to repeat itself". We don't learn very well it seems.

The question that Abe and his administration should ask themselves is how to do we interpret this new request? Should we blow them off as we have been doing over the past 2 decades. Should we deny it ever happened? Certainly some politicians are preparing their statements as we speak.

Einstein said that repeating any experiment with the same parameters and to expect different results is insanity.

So what is different now?

I would say "social media". Allow me to expand on that just a bit.

Most of us are looking at the time. I keep reading "that happened a long time ago". "Lets move on" "That was years ago". Along those lines.

We are all familiar with "Time catches up with us". "Revenge is a dish best served cold". Some wait for that moment, that opportunity to......seize the moment.

Lets look at Bill Cosby for a sec. The accusations against him happened almost 20 years ago. Long past the statue of limitations. His public image has been eviscerated. The cases are not the same but the methods being used in this case are.

It would appear to be the same experiment. Get the apology for Nanking! However the approach is different. They will use social media to pressure Japan to give them an apology and compensation. Even if Abe blows this off they will still achieve their goal.

It would be in Japan's best interest to NOT challenge a public tribunal online and instead defuse this by simply "apologizing" for it and ride that wave to the high moral ground. That would make sense.

What I expect is these older Japanese politicians to stand in front of this tsunami of vituperation until they push up daisies.

I don't think the rest of the world and all of China to ignore Nangking. Abe could win a lot of political points and stabilize the region if he were to do the right thing.

Admit it happened, compensate those who suffered, work towards a new day.

-8 ( +3 / -10 )

I think Japan needs an apology from China for the over beating of the proverbial dead horse. Come on already, give it a rest China and how about you deal with your own internal problems first before trying to use Japan as that shiny object to distract your own people as if you think they are dogs or something that can easily forget the recent years of Chinese corruption leading to deaths from tainted food to poor building construction to cutting costs on safety measures that caused the Chinese high-speed rail train to crash during a lightening storm!!!

It seems China can copy just about everything the Japanese do except manners, quality control and safety measures but then have the balls to want an apology from something that Japan did 77 years ago. That takes the mind of a complete nutter to want that when they currently and have been for decades abusing Japan.

The more China whines, the less respect they will get world wide until no one will give a flying expletive about China.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I fully agree with "smithinjapan"!

He already explained the German "version", so no need for me to do this again!

Just one thing: NO, never forget, but forgive!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Chinese NGO in communist China? There are better target: first, asking the communist party to apologize for chairman Mao's mass murdered of millions Chinese without trials (crime against humanity?), and second, demanding Beijing to stop cultural genocide of Tibet. NGO should help the communist China write a better history book from world community's human rights perspective, and then we can revisit Nanjing 's story from an objective point of view. Got it?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Chinese NGO wants Japan apology for 1937 massacre

Japan already has apologized, more than once. All apologies and reparations for war time actions have been made and settled, with China agreeing to this, back in the 50's if memory serves. China has no right to demand further apologies. I've also heard it said that the more you apologise, the less sincere it becomes. Demanding another apology will serve no other purpose than to inflate this NGO's ego and delusional self-worth.

The China Federation of Demanding Compensation From Japan

How about the China Federation of Shut the Hell up? What a pathetic name for an organisation. It's just a group of glorified guilt trippers and sad saps. Where's the China Federation of Demanding Compensation from China for Butchering it's Own People in the Cultural Revolution? Where's the Tibetan Federation of Demanding Compensation from China for Invading a Country Inhabited by Pacifists? Stop turning a blind eye to your own atrocities for once.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Stop beating the dead horse that you already CHOPPED the HEAD OFF already.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

excellentadventurerDec. 09, 2014 - 10:39AM JST

3.No intelligent, educated person disputes that the Nanking Massacre (or 'foray' in Abe's language) occurred.

Battle of Nanjing did occur. The question is if killing enemy soldiers in combat is a Massacre.

It is also recorded that an army of Chinese Nationalist Party was deployed outside Nanjing to kill any descerting Chinese soldier from the city, so that every Chinese soldier inside would fight to death. Chinese army never issued retreat order during the Battle of Nanjing.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Battle of Nanjing did occur. The question is if killing enemy soldiers in combat is a Massacre.

Killing soldiers in combat is of course not a massacre. Raping women and children, pillaging, holding contests to see who could behead more men, and bayonetting pregnant women to death is certainly a massacre.

The slaughter is well documented; even by western missionaries living in Nanking at the time.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@JWithers Yeah, this is exactly like Bill Cosby EXCEPT the civilized world realizes 1.) This was at war time 2.) Japan has already apologized and 3.) you don't punish the son for the father's crime. But keep up your guilt-tripping as it makes for loads of hilarity.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Tong Zeng, told The Associated Press. “A month ago, it suddenly dawned on me that we should do this.”

It only took them 77 years to come to an epiphany?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Unit 713, Nanking, sex slaves, all deniable as there has been has been 80 years of collecting the evidence and destroying it! The sons of the fathers have gone to long lengthy destruction of any evidence. Luckily other countries have an education system unrelated to government policy and based on truth. Unlike....?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

SaitamaRefugeeDec. 09, 2014 - 01:56PM JST

The slaughter is well documented; even by western missionaries living in Nanking at the time.

That is not quite the case. "The International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone" even gave Japanese army thank you letter for keeping the Safety Zone in the city safe.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

That is not quite the case. "The International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone" even gave Japanese army thank you letter for keeping the Safety Zone in the city safe.

When was that?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There are also non-Japanese people honoured at Yasukuni, but Yasukuni Jinja is a separate affair and not connected to Nanjing/Nanking. Sure, they should move the convicted war criminals' names from Yasukuni to another shrine somewhere. Sure Japanese politicians should not go there under the present temporary arrangements, but they will continue to do so as long as they are told not to by angry foreign politicians.

As to what happened in Nanjing, only one of the JT posters so far has objected to the word massacre itself, but most neutral people accept that some units of the Japanese army caused terrible atrocities there. The exact numbers of dead non-combatants will never be known.

Whether it was two people or three, two hundred thousand people or three hundred thousand, should make no difference to the tone of any apology.

A heart-felt apology will convey the meaning to anyone with an open heart. A Japanese political spokesman should be able to make a heartfelt apology, and open-hearted Chinese should be able to feel such a message.

Talk of compensation sounds like a scam.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It's long overdue for Japan to deal with this issue honestly, and follow Germany's fine example of reconciliation. Unequivocal apologies should be given - then it should be criminalised to deny the matter, in line with Germany and Austria. Freedom of speech does not extend to denials of historical fact

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

SaitamaRefugeeDec. 09, 2014 - 02:37PM JST

That is not quite the case. "The International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone" even gave Japanese army thank you letter for keeping the Safety Zone in the city safe.

When was that?

How about page 3 here. http://lib.law.virginia.edu/imtfe/content/page-3-1253

Quite a number of rapes were reported, but massacre? In addition, thousands of Chinese soldiers were lurking in the city who would be accused of desertion of caught by Chinese, would be taken as prisoners if caught by Japanese, and were cut off from supply. I would be surprised if they had behaved good.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

How about page 3 here. http://lib.law.virginia.edu/imtfe/content/page-3-1253 Quite a number of rapes were reported, but massacre? In addition, thousands of Chinese soldiers were >lurking in the city who would be accused of desertion of caught by Chinese, would be taken as prisoners if >caught by Japanese, and were cut off from supply. I would be surprised if they had behaved good.

What a lie! They were not thanking them for keeping the safety zone safe! Page 3 clearly states, "We come to thank you for the fine way your artillery spared the safety zone and to establish contact with you for future plans of Chinese civilians in the zone."

Nice try.

Furthermore, I find it quite ironic that you seem to think that while there were "quite a number of rapes that reported," there was no slaughter and no murder. If an army is willing to rape civilians, what makes you think they'd stop there?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Here we go again... thought they'd been too quiet for a few days.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

SaitamaRefugeeDec. 09, 2014 - 04:48PM JST

Furthermore, I find it quite ironic that you seem to think that while there were "quite a number of rapes that reported," there was no slaughter and no murder. If an army is willing to rape civilians, what makes you think they'd stop there?

"The International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone" complained to Japanese Embassy of every crime allegedly committed by Japanese soldiers. You can see their itemized long list in my previous link. If there had been a massacre or even a murder, they would have surely complained.

But I am glad you have read the historical material that was submitted to the Tokyo War Crime Tribunal, rather than relying only on someone's interpretation of history.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Let's see for the record today is 9 Dec 2014, and China who by the way on paper only No 2 economy wise, acting like a low level 3rd world country. How about China releasing that wad of stashed cash as it manipulates all the other countries with lies, cheating and changing history to it's recollections. Let it go. Move forward and start acting like a real leader and stop wasting antics on something that was paid and is now as undesirable act as it was "in the past". move forward.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Can't China understand that Japan was the real victim of the second world war and get over a few little massacres,

Um, where did you find your information? I'm sure the sex slaves, and the POWs would agree with you.

If there had been a massacre or even a murder, they would have surely complained.

Um, the 200-300,000 Chinese who perished at Nanking would likely complain, but unfortunately they can't. And yes, the slaughter and rape was well documented. Even the Nazis (later to become Japan's ally) were shocked, and that's saying something

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

In diplomacy, this is developing into a rather large problem.

Just confronting the past, admitting it and taking responsibility would defuse the issue.

Germany did this and came out very well.

Unfortunately, it's something Abe and his right wing supporters are totally incapable of doing.

Stout denial just doesn't work.

It just becomes;

"Did!"

"Didn't!"

"Did!"

"Didn't!"

A bit childish, don't you think?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

While a better understanding of past events does provide a lesson or two to the present generation especially the youth, one wonders if harping on some unpleasant issues will help anyway improve harmony between nations especially those directly affected by such events! It is ideal to leave behind such unpleasant incidents of the past and move forward with a conviction never to indulge in them in future!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

NGO's are nothing more that mischief making political agitators stoking up discontent. Accept the principals of international law and show some respect for the democratic process before waving a finger at the Japanese government and it's people demanding apologies.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Just confronting the past, admitting it and taking responsibility would defuse the issue.

Precisely. That is all Japan is being asked - and expected - to do. Simultaneously laws would have to be enacted to make denial of war crimes itself a crime (in line with Germany and Austria) It isn't infringement of free speech, Japan, it's common sense

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Tong Zeng, told The Associated Press. “A month ago, it suddenly dawned on me that we should do this.”

This fool and his cronies needs to take a flying running jump off a steep cliff, they are way off course, suddenly one day it will dawn on him that he is a fool.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

There is a New York Times article dated January 4, 1938 titled "EX-CHINESE OFFICERS AMONG U.S. REFUGEES; Colonel and His Aides Admit Blaming the Japanese for Crimes in Nanking"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9903E0DF113EE03ABC4C53DFB7668383629EDE

Wireless to The New York Times. SHANGHAI, Jan. 3. American professors remaining at Ginling College in Nanking as foreign members of the Refugee Welfare Committee were seriously embarrassed to discover that they had been harboring a deserted Chinese Army colonel and six of his subordinate officers. The professors had, in fact, made the colonel second in authority at the refugee camp. The officers, who had doffed their uniforms during the Chinese retreat from Nanking, were discovered living in one of the college buildings: They confessed their identity after Japanese Army searchers found they had hidden six rifles, five revolvers, a dismounted machine gun and ammunition in the building. The ex-Chinese officers in the presence of Americans and other foreigners confessed looting in Nanking and also that one night they dragged girls into the darkness and the next day blamed Japanese soldiers for the attacks. The ex-officers were arrested and will be punished under martial law and probably executed.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

There is a New York Times article dated January 4, 1938 titled "EX-CHINESE OFFICERS AMONG U.S. REFUGEES; Colonel and His Aides Admit Blaming the Japanese for Crimes in Nanking"

Further dissembling. Oh, and while I'm at it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7907437.stm This one looks at a "Nazi" who saved Chinese civilians from the IJA. Further http://www.history.com/topics/nanjing-massacre http://world.time.com/2012/12/13/the-nanjing-massacre-scenes-from-a-hideous-slaughter-75-years-ago/

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The incumbent Government of China are warmongering bullies, pure cultural hegemony, look no further than Tibet. Mongolians, Tobetans, Uighurs, and other minorities are routinely discriminated against. 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre let's start by recognising the dead who while peacefully demanding change slaughtered by there own military under orders from there own government. Apologise to the families of the dead, pay compensation. Of course it never happened.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I recommend a movie called "Sepuku" by Masaki Kobayashi for anyone willing to understand the lengths that the Japanese will go to in order to save face. Especially the ending. I only mention this because this tendency is so embedded in the Japanese DNA. Unfortunately it will require for history to repeat itself, possibly several times over, for the Japanese psyche to change.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Not exactly. What I mean is Japanese will fight tooth and nail to uphold a self-imposed image of themselves. Watch that movie!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Chinese NGO wants Japan apology for 1937 massacre

Communist China NGO.....really a Communist Chinese NGO!?! LOL There is no such thing as an NGO in any Communist controlled nation.

This is an attempt by Emperor Xi's allies to find a way to save face after his anti-Japan campaign failed.

But, as usual the only people that believe this are the far left wingers, Japan haters and the Communist paid internet army.

What a bloody joke!

Thank you for the laugh!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Don't exaggerate the numbers. We want to know the truth. We want to know that our grandfathers really did something deserves the condemnation for 80 years.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

bamboo pinkDec. 09, 2014 - 10:21PM JST Don't exaggerate the numbers. We want to know the truth. We want to know that our grandfathers really did something deserves the condemnation for 80 years.

This is a political issue that is being beaten to death, the truth has nothing to do with it. Propaganda rules the day on this subject.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Great to debate, we can demand, argue the numbers, criticise Japanese Government at our hearts content, do this in China and you will be marginalised, tortured, placed under house arrest then finally disappear. Think about it, think about what is happening to the students in HK, and there fate if they don't comply. The People’s Republic of Amnesia remember Nanking, forget Tiananmen.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

NGO = why would a sovereign nation even acknowledge they exist?

There are protocols that must be followed - in ANY government - in order to avoid setting troublesome precedents. One such troubling precedent would be if a sovereign nation started responding to NGOs, essentially elevating the NGO's status to that of another sovereignty.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Only ever had contact with NGO's when sitting on a sub committee overseeing a public financial backing request for one of the NGO connected with Climate Action Network...with a mission statement along the lines of action to limit human-induced climate change to ecologically sustainable levels....it was akin to political scientology .

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Simultaneously laws would have to be enacted to make denial of war crimes itself a crime (in line with Germany and Austria) It isn't infringement of free speech, Japan, it's common sense

Disagree strongly. Even in the case of Germany, it is better to have the deniers out in the open to be shouted down. Censorship of any kind is not the act of a free society, which is where the Chinese don't understand Japan.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If Japan apologize, it will mpt apologize to NGO. Japan is an opposite of sucker.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"Chinese NGO"

This is an oxymoron. China is not a one-party state, it is a PARTY-STATE. There is no PRC without the CCP. In such an environment, how can NGOs even exist? How can organizations operating independently of and often in opposition to the government exist in a Party-State? They can't, period. China has no NGOs.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

NGO?! WTH?! The China Federation of Demanding Compensation From Japan? LOL!! How's this: The American Federation of Demanding china to Shut Up.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Contrast the Japanese arrogance about its past with Germany's complete acknowledgement of its war crimes. Japan is still reviled in many parts of east Asia in part for its refusal to admit its wrongs. In Europe, Poland is one of Germany's closest friends. I wonder what the Japanese think they have to gain by their posture.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Since no Japanese leader had offered sincere apologies for wartime atrocities, unlike German chancellors, especially Willy Brandt who knelt at the monument to Warsaw Ghetto victims in 1970. Japanese’s “Proactive contribution to peace” is just meaningless.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

One beheading by an ISIS militant and it's all over the headlines. There wasn't just ONE at Nankin. Chinese were lined up and beheaded one by one as the others watched. It was a horror show of unbelievable cruelty.

And it wasn't just the beheadings, either.

Japan needs to front up, admit it and take responsibility.

Of course, China has its skeleton in the closet too and needs to take responsibility for Tibet, Tianmen and so on.

These incidents have nothing to do with each other.

Pretending they didn't exist or writing them out of history books will only make sure they persist. Only by facing up to what was done, taking responsibility for it and ensuring it won't happen again can we move forward.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Disagree strongly. Even in the case of Germany, it is better to have the deniers out in the open to be shouted down. Censorship of any kind is not the act of a free society, which is where the Chinese don't understand Japan.

I disagree strongly with the above statement. Germany now has excellent relations with its neighbours due to its reconciliatory attitude, as well as its anti-denial laws. These serve to reassure neighbouring countries of its true repentance. Has Abe or Hashimoto visited Nanking, and prostrated themselves at the memorial, as happened with West Germany's chancellor Brandt in 1970 in Warsaw? And who is shouting down the "deniers"? The sheeple of Japan are afraid to lift a finger to save their country. Nanking is an issue that will continue to poison China-Japan relations until it is properly dealt with

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@Christopher Glen I suppose you haven't seen or heard how many Israelis say about Germany....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I suppose you haven't seen or heard how many Israelis say about Germany.

Oh yeah, and supporting links? I have a couple to begin with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany This one was only signed recently. It seems that Germany has no "statute of limitations" in place when it comes to making amends. This stands in contrast to Japan's treatment of world war 2 sex slaves, and its lack of acknowledgement of the Nanking massacre http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-to-pay-772-million-euros-in-reparations-to-holocaust-survivors-a-902528.html

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

BertieWoosterDec. 10, 2014 - 08:56AM JST

I know photos of brutality by Chinese against Chinese was used as evidence of Japanese brutality.

http://www.oapen.org/search?identifier=448541

"Carl Crow - A tough old China Hand"

page 113 Thick Streaks of Ruthlessness

Crow met his fair share of warlords during his time in China and found some he liked and others he thought outright bandits. He could not very well avoid them and, since arriving in Shanghai, had come into contact with them both as a journalist and an advertising agent. Crow's time in China coincided roughly with the warlord period (1916-39) sparked by Yuan Shih-kai's death that left a power vacuum the warlords greedily filled.

page 115 Much of the actual fighting was fairly shambolic, such as the clashes Crow witnessed near Shanghai, but massacres and extreme brutality, torture, rape and pillage were all commonplace. Beheading was their preferred method of execution with the severed heads, a sight Crow saw many times on his travels throughout China, publicly displayed. If the warlords had an identifying characteristic, it was probably "a thick streak of ruthlessness," as David Bonavia suggests in his study of the period.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

How come some people arre talking about Germany? Japan copycatted Chinese Culture but no habit of copy Germany. This is NGO and Japan about Nanjing which are in China, not in Germany, Japan massacred Chinese people.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Wondering why international press still waste time publishing any "Japan owe us a new dose of apology and a pool full of money" coming from the Chinese (and the Korean). It already crossed the annoying level to a superlative I don't know how to name it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I know photos of brutality by Chinese against Chinese was used as evidence of Japanese brutality

I'm surprised this hasn't been deleted as "off topic". The Japanese military (IJA) was responsible for the deaths of approximately 15 million Chinese, including approximately 200,000 people at Nanking. This is not to mention Unit 731's experiments - which often included live dissections of unwilling participants. China has every right to still be angry with the wishy-washy, insincere apologies that have occasionally emanated from Japan since 1972

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Christopher GlenDec. 11, 2014 - 12:39PM JST

The Japanese military (IJA) was responsible for the deaths of approximately 15 million Chinese, including approximately 200,000 people at Nanking. This is not to mention Unit 731's experiments.

It is high time you should know those numbers are contested. OK. You have blind faith to those numbers. But if you want to contribute anything to the discussion here, why do not you present persuasive material here, rather than repeating your confession of faith. And I mean hear say reporting of media without reference does not count.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Note that I used the word "approximately", and I didn't use 300,000 - which is the C.P`s figure. Are you denying that a massacre, and mass rape of civilians took place?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

For those that are not afraid, please go to the Chinese embassy in Tokyo and give it a mighty finger, otherwise known as the Arizona (USA) greeting.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If the Chinese want to keep digging up the past, they should dig back even further to where it all started. China started the war in 1274 and the conflict has never been resolved. There's never been an apology or peace treaty or anything. The war never ended. In fact the conflict is still ongoing. The geography hasn't changed and neither has the politics. The Chinese want to accomplish today what they couldn't accomplish during the Yuan dynasty, namely the destruction of Japan. Let the Chinese apologize first and prove that they aren't trying pull a Yuan dynasty 2.0 by pulling out of Tibet and East Turkestan. History shows, the only thing China respects is force, not apologies. Si vis pacem, para bellum.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

1937 Nanjing people did not attack Japan in 1274. On the contrary, 1937 Jaoan massacred Nanjing people. Ir is not digging old history. There are Japanese and Chinese who were alive in 1937. Don't forget there are many Japanese who are older than 77. Also in China, Past. not dead history yet. After that, Japan ordered all Christian operated chirches and kindergarten to be closed and sent operators with their families to China. After WW II, they returned to Japan and operated churches again, So it is not dead history yet.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Seeing all the whining in comments sections and the fact that Japan's majority ruling party denies war atrocities like it's 1935, I don't see why this is at all surprising.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

f the Chinese want to keep digging up the past, they should dig back even further to where it all started. China started the war in 1274 and the conflict has never been resolved.

I don't know why this hasn't been deleted as off-topic. The moderator must be asleep on the job. You must be referring to the "Mongol" invasions of 1274 and 1281 - which Japan went some way towards provoking by beheading the Mongol emissaries. If the Mongols weren't ruling China I very much doubt there would have been a "Chinese" invasion. Back on topic, Japan needs to make amends for Nanking

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Christopher Glen The beheadings were because the Mongols were trying to claim Japan as a vassal state, typical Chinese behavior if you ask me. The Mongols ruled China so long, no one can say where that DNA went, but probably into the CCP.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Poor CH3CHO gets down votes just by posting a link to an actual newspaper article. Whoever gave this article a downvote, what was he/she fighting against...?

There is a New York Times article dated January 4, 1938 titled "EX-CHINESE OFFICERS AMONG U.S. REFUGEES; Colonel and His Aides Admit Blaming the Japanese for Crimes in Nanking"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9903E0DF113EE03ABC4C53DFB7668383629EDE

Wireless to The New York Times. SHANGHAI, Jan. 3. American professors remaining at Ginling College in Nanking as foreign members of the Refugee Welfare Committee were seriously embarrassed to discover that they had been harboring a deserted Chinese Army colonel and six of his subordinate officers. The professors had, in fact, made the colonel second in authority at the refugee camp. The officers, who had doffed their uniforms during the Chinese retreat from Nanking, were discovered living in one of the college buildings: They confessed their identity after Japanese Army searchers found they had hidden six rifles, five revolvers, a dismounted machine gun and ammunition in the building. The ex-Chinese officers in the presence of Americans and other foreigners confessed looting in Nanking and also that one night they dragged girls into the darkness and the next day blamed Japanese soldiers for the attacks. The ex-officers were arrested and will be punished under martial law and probably executed.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

NYtoday: " ... The ex-Chinese officers in the presence of Americans and other foreigners confessed ..."

"confessed" under gunpoint?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@turbotsat The guns of their former officers more likely.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

scipantheist : @turbotsat The guns of their former officers more likely.

? Can't make sense of that.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@turbotsat You make it sound like the Americans shot the deserters. There is no reason to assume the Chinese couldn't do that.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

scipantheist: @turbotsat You make it sound like the Americans shot the deserters. There is no reason to assume the Chinese couldn't do that.

It was in Nanjing, 1937. The Chinese officers were caught by Japanese Army searchers. Why imagine they were held at gunpoint by any other than the Japanese Army?

And the old article said "The officers, who had doffed their uniforms during the Chinese retreat from Nanking". Why assume they were deserters? If it was a rout, they're on their own til they can regroup, that doesn't make them deserters.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't know why this hasn't been deleted as off-topic. The moderator must be asleep on the job. You must be referring to the "Mongol" invasions of 1274 and 1281 - which Japan went some way towards provoking by beheading the Mongol emissaries.

The invading army was Chinese and the emissaries were beheaded in 1275 after the Chinese had already killed thousands of Japanese on Tsushima, Iki and sacked Hakata.

Initial study of the artifacts has revealed new information about the khan's forces. Only one percent of the finds can be attributed to a Mongolian origin; the rest are Chinese. The Mongol invasion was Mongol only in name and in the allegiance of the invading sailors and troops.

See http://archive.archaeology.org/0301/etc/kamikaze.html

And that war never ended. It's still continuing today. An no amount of apologizing to China is going to change the current geopolitical situation. Would an apology from Japan have stopped the Chinese from attacking Damansky Island in 1969? Will apologies from Japan result in the Chinese leaving East Turkestan and Tibet?

Take a look at a map of Communist China today. Does it look more like the map of China under the Yuan Dynasty or the Song Dynasty? Hint: It looks more like the map of the country that invaded Japan in 1274 and again in 1281. Apologies won't alter the geography of Asia and it sure isn't going to stop China from its drive to take the western half of the Pacific ocean.

After all, Admiral Timothy Keating, then US Pacific Commander, recalled in 2009 that a high-ranking Chinese naval officer had once suggested to him that the US and China divide the Pacific Ocean between them, with China responsible for keeping the peace west of Hawaii and the US east of Hawaii.

If it looks like the Yuan dynasty and acts like the Yuan dynasty, then maybe it should be treated like the Yuan dynasty.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Your study of history is somewhat skewed. The attempted invasions of Japan in 1274 and 1281 were Mongolian in origin. And yes, moderator, this is relevant in that it counters this skewed portrayal of China. Can you say, without a shadow of a doubt that China would've attempted to invade Japan had they not been taken over by the Mongols? Back on topic, Japan needs to show sincere remorse for its atrocities in China

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Sorry. No more apologies for you.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That's ok, as long as the Japanese government does the right thing vis-a-vis China and South Korea

-3 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan could be praised at there today if it had liberated Wuyue from China rather than slaughting its people together with those coward deserters...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Chinese NGO wants Japan apology for 1937 massacre

How about saying "Thank You" for Japan's financial and technological assistance for a change.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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