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Defense Ministry to team up with Keidanren to promote arms exports

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That's not nice, I know it's a Buisness decision but that's not a nice Buisness, nothing to be proud of. Don't think the world needs more weapons. So refugees from war torn countries proudly bought to you by J-inc are going to be sent back, it's embarrassing our weapons didn't kill them as planned. For gods sake Japan follow Switzerland be the bigger country in Asia.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

@Cricky

if only eh? an opportunity to be special, instead of just bleating on about 'intangiblles'.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The idea that Japan, the world's third largest economy, a democratic country restrained by it's own constitution, living next to the world's most militarily and economically powerful dictatorship which is bent on dominating the entire region can stay "neutral" is a naive sing along around the campfire fantasy.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Intangibles? I'm going you use that as my word for the day. I'd never thought that killing people would count them as intangibles on my Buisness spread sheet, now I know new column on my Excel spreadsheet " intangibles"

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Any legal basis ?

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Pricing and marketing are the key. Chinese and Russian cheap, generic or "copycat" armed products still draw attentions among countries of fewer monetary resources.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Japan is a peaceful nation...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

killing people

...I would gave thought the premise of 'defense' is to deter the killing of people. Particularly that Japan has a pacifist constitution, I think it's even more believable that defense is 'deterrence'.

On the other hand, I don't see Japan's immediate neighbours China, North Korea, or Russia in the same light.

Switzerland? LOL.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Let's be clear. This corporate welfare scheme is framed as part of national defense against a neighbouring country, the labour of which supports our lives under increasing wage depression with cheaper goods, but it's the desperate move of corporate-state elites to keep their wealth and power with the home economy in decline.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Promising news to wake up to! This could be a real boost to jobs and growth in Japan. Japans weaponry will no doubt be far more high tech than the rubbish coming out of Russia and Communist China.

I hope Taiwan purchases a huge share of these weapons to help defend themselves in alliance with peaceful, democratic nations in the region like Japan and the USA.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Most of Japan's weapons aren't competitive enough to be exported.

Some possibilities

1) ASM-3 missile : This is probably the only competitive Japanese weapon, but as it currently stand cannot be integrated into the F-35 due to weight restrictions, must be slimmed down further.

2) AESA Meteor : This missile is a joint venture with UK so it can be counted as Japanese export and can be quite successful on the F-35.

That's about it. Japan's submarines(Soryu/Taigei) aren't particularly competitive against Korea's KSS-III, which has longer underwater endurance compared to Soryu/Taigei's Lithium battery thanks to its hydrogen fuel cell system and carries 10 ballistic missiles that Japanese subs do not.

Japan's ground armor equipment pales next to Korean armors, which are making German armors sweat in Germany's home turf of European contests.

The C-2 as it currently stand can't beat the A400M and even the KC390.

The F-3, which will cost $450 million per unit before the inevitable price rise, is too cost prohibitive. Anybody who can afford a $450 million fighter jet is building one itself.

There are no prospective buyers for US-2.

So I don't quite understand which Japanese weapon Keidanren thinks is exportable.

@Fighto!

I hope Taiwan purchases a huge share of these weapons

Japan won't sell even if Taiwan asked to buy, due to Japanese fear of a massive Chinese retaliation. The only country that can sell weapon to Taiwan is the US.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

War! What is it good for?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Cricky 

“For gods sake Japan follow Switzerland be the bigger country in Asia”

That’s exactly what Japan is setting out to do. Switzerland is one of the world’s major manufacturers and exporters of weapons.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@Cricky

For gods sake Japan follow Switzerland be the bigger country in Asia.

Japan can't be the Switzerland of East Asia.

Switzerland has no natural enemy in Europe hence it can afford be neutral.

Japan has three neighbors happy to go to war with to settle past historical animosities; China, ROK, and NK.

Furthermore, Japan as the forward deployment base of US and host of nuclear weapons can't be neutral; it's a just chess piece in the grand game of chess the US is playing with China.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Japan has three neighbors happy to go to war with to settle past historical animosities; China, ROK, and NK.

Four. You forgot totalitarian Russia, the nation that illegally stole historically Japanese territory and has stated they are prepared to go to war to defend their ill-gotten gains.

So, yes - Japan has many enemies in the region which means she simply must have a strong military and military industry.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

@Fighto!

Four. You forgot totalitarian Russia

Russia has no historical grudge to settle against Japan; any Russian military action in the Southern Kurils is purely defensive in nature as the Russian objective is to defend its territory from a possible Japanese invasion.

On the other hand, China, ROK, and NK do want to punish Japan with massive bombardment on Tokyo if the opportunity arises. That's the difference between these three former victims of Imperial Japan and Russia.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

This probably means corporate welfare through ODAs. Their primary targets will be Southeast Asia.

The ODAs are given to the developing countries under the conditions of employing Japanese weapons, of questionable qualities.

The Mauritius oil spill revealed to us that the Japanese radar systems were faulty, and the native people there are quite angry even if it was given away via ODA.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nishandegnarain/2020/12/11/the-rise-and-fall-of-japan-over-the-deadly-mauritius-oil-spill/

From Mauritius's example, I can clearly see the scheme for arms exports will fail in the long run but J-inc will benefit as always at the cost of taxpayers' money.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Supporting war is a crime.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

"For gods sake Japan follow Switzerland"

Exactly!

Switzerland is in the top 10 of the World's biggest weapons manufacturers and exporters'

Japan should do its utmost to outdo them.

"Swiss arms exports double in 2020"

"https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/swiss-arms-exports-double-in-2020#:~:text=In%20the%20first%20half%20of%202020%2C%20Switzerland%20exported%20just%20over,part%20of%20the%20exported%20arms."

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Supporting war is a crime.

China has the worlds largest military ship building program and the largest navy by number of ships and it is still pumping out more ships every year.

China exports cheap weapons systems to anyone who wants them allowing even the poorest nations to fight wars and kill thousands.

Clearly China is one of many countries that support war and war infrastructure.

So you would agree that based on your statement that "Supporting war is a crime" China should stop and should be made to pay, along with other war supporting nations, for this crime.

Neighbors are not enemies, as simple as that. Japan needs no wars, nor stupidity.

If that were true then China would not be sending military ships into Japanese administered territory without permission hundreds of times each year. Those are not the actions of a friendly neighbor.

China makes enemies through its actions. Its words of peace make no sense and fall on the floor like leaves in autumn.

Japans actions are calculated for defense and are necessary to maintain freedom from coercion from unfriendly neighbors.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

any Russian military action in the Southern Kurils is purely defensive in nature as the Russian objective is to defend its territory 

Almost NO other nation considers the Northern Territories to be Russian. The US states clearly they are sovereign Japanese land. The EU calls on Russia to hand them back to Japan. Any conflict over these Japanese islands would be an act of aggression by totalitarian Russia, NOT defense.

China, ROK, and NK do want to punish Japan with massive bombardment on Tokyo

Wanting to do something means zero. The US would never in a million years allow South Korea to strike at Japan, the US number 1 ally in the region. They would be buried, and then easily taken over by the North if they even lifted a finger.

You are mistaken if you believe SK could threaten Japan except in fantasy.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

South Korea and Japan are not enemies.

They are, via America, reluctant allies with past issues that will haunt the relationship probably for a few more generations. Most time they share intelligence on whats happening in the region either directly when they are not in a spat or indirectly through the US.

In the event that Nth Korea attacks local US bases on South Korean and Japanese soil, you will find all three on the same side. The same goes if China attacks US bases in both countries.

Right now many on both sides are not particularly fond of each other but in a crunch that will be forgotten and cooperation will ensue. It may not be perfect but it will happen out of necessity. The relationship may then see some improvement. Let us hope it never comes in that manner.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Peter14 said "Clearly China is one of many countries that support war and war infrastructure."

Unlike Japan, China never sells something and say use it to fight wars again someone.

China is authorized to sell anything and it is called market economy.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Why is a government ministry supported by taxpayers' money involved in a private-sector, for profit venture? The classic definition of fascism in the mergng of mercantile and political interests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@Fighto!

Almost NO other nation considers the Northern Territories to be Russian.

Actually it's the other way around.

China, ROK, and NK acknowledge the Southern Kurils to be Russian territory and have signed development and fishery agreements with Russia. 

Any conflict over these Japanese islands would be an act of aggression by totalitarian Russia, NOT defense.

You know that the Southern Kurils are not covered by the US-Japan mutual defense treaty, right? Should a war break out at the Southern Kurils, then Japan's own its own, the US can't intervene.

The US would never in a million years allow South Korea to strike at Japan

Again, the US's hands are tied if the war breaks out over the Liancourt Rocks, as the US-Japan mutual defense treaty doesn't cover the Liancourt Rocks and if a war breaks out then Japan's on its own.

you believe SK could threaten Japan except in fantasy.

The ROK has 5,000 ballistic missiles.

You don't go to war with a country sitting on 5,000 ballistic missiles, unless you too have 5,000 ballistic missiles and a match national missile defense network.

This is why Kim Jong Un insists on nukes, because without nukes the ROK can reach Pyongyang in 19 hours, take Pyongyang in 7 days, and all of North Korea in 2 weeks.

Yes, North Korea has crazy amount of ballistic missiles, so the ROK too has crazy amount of ballistic and cruise missiles which in times of war would be pointed at Tokyo instead. This is why Japan must not wage a war against the ROK.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

China is authorized to sell anything and it is called market economy.

All countries are. You made the point that supporting war is a crime and China supports war by selling weapons of war to anyone and everyone who pays. By your very own definition China is guilty of a crime.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

The difference between a good liar and a bad liar is that a good liar always try very hard to find excuses to lie.

Wrong again. The difference between a good liar and a bad liar is:

A good liar speaks 10% truth and 90% lies and uses the little truth to back up the lie.

A bad liar doesnt bother with the truth, they just lie 100%

Now how about you stick to topic and not run off trying to get insultingly personal?

Apologies to Mods and readers.

Japan under Abe have opened the door for Japan to sell military equipment. The offer to Australia of the soyu class submarine was the first attempt in this endeavor. The fact this is now moving ahead with partnerships shows they mean business. This is not a bad thing if major nations all have a finger in this pie why cant Japan?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

China, ROK, and NK acknowledge the Southern Kurils to be Russian territory

I dont see how three nations that do acknowledge the Southern Kurils as Russian changes the fact that most do not. If anything it reinforces the statement that Most nations do not see the Northern territories as Russian.

You would have to be able to name about a hundred countries to back up your assertion.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

AkieToday  10:57 am JST

Supporting war is a crime.

Then China is a Criminal Nation.

"Xi recently exhorted Chinese marines to devote their “minds and energy” to “preparing for war.” Much of the message was meant for the U.S. and Taiwan."

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/10/19/preparing_for_war_what_is_chinas_xi_jinping_trying_to_tell_us_581166.html

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@Peter14

I dont see how three nations that do acknowledge the Southern Kurils as Russian changes the fact that most do not. 

As far as the East Asian region is concerned, the East Asian regional consensus is that the Southern Kurils are Russian territory and Japan is making an unsupported and unjustified claims here. Likewise the East Asian region also does not support Japan's claims on the Liancourt Rocks and the Diaoyu Islands.

Compare this to Argentina's claims on the Falkland Islands, which the entire South America MERCOSUR block support and are putting an active boycott of Falkland flagged vessels from entering MERCOSUR countries.

The East Asian regional consensus view is that the Southern Kurils were Russian to begin with, Imperial Japan seized as spoils of war after the Russo-Japanese War, and were reverted back to Russia at the end of WW2. It's as simple as that.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Won't be long before Japan, so desperate to make money and declare itself a world-exporter of weapons, will be selling to China and North Korea, against its own interests, and claiming they are doing it to protect the nation against them. And yet, don't they still claim to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for the Constitution and for being a pacifist nation?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Japans weaponry will no doubt be far more high tech than the rubbish coming out of Russia and Communist China.

It will warm your butt and make announcements: ...itashimas, ...onegaishimas.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The East Asian regional consensus view is that the Southern Kurils were Russian to begin with, Imperial Japan seized as spoils of war after the Russo-Japanese War, and were reverted back to Russia at the end of WW2. It's as simple as that.

I get a great laugh whenever I see someone who talks completely ignorant of what they preach.

For you information the four islands were agreed MUTUALLY between Russia and Japan in signing the the Treaty of Shimoda in 1855 designating the national borders between Japan and Russia instated between Etorofu and Urup.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Samit BasuToday  01:14 pm JST

The East Asian regional consensus view is that the Southern Kurils were Russian to begin with, Imperial Japan seized as spoils of war after the Russo-Japanese War, and were reverted back to Russia at the end of WW2. It's as simple as that.

Total nonsense. The 4 islands became Japanese territory by the 1855 Treaty of Shimoda negotiated with Russial. They were never Russian or ever taken by war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Shimoda

Don't you ever tire of posting blatantly false information?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Ossan, Peter, Fighto very well said. Valid points that many times are overlooked in Japan.

Samit, I do agree with your view that Japan is behind S. Korea in some military technologies because you don't have Article 9 keeping you behind. That's why it's important to take this steps if you expect Japan to be of any help in East Asia or to help S. Korea if another war happens and North attacks again.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The idea that Japan, the world's third largest economy, a democratic country restrained by it's own constitution, living next to the world's most militarily and economically powerful dictatorship which is bent on dominating the entire region can stay "neutral" is a naive sing along around the campfire fantasy.

Well said,

Only one correct: dictatorship (s), don't forget about North Korea and Russia.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ReasonandWisdomNipponToday 03:15 am JST

I do agree with your view that Japan is behind S. Korea in some military technologies

Could you name a single example?

To my knowledge SK weaponry is mediocre at best. Knock off design of other nation's equipment, failing to reverse engineer other nation's patents, taking apart black box components and being able to re-assembling them again hiring help from other nations then claiming it is 100% domestically made so on and so forth.

Even their own military do not trust domestically made weapons saying they lack accuracy and reliability.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ Samit Basu

You are largely correct, but the Treaty of Shimoda of 1855 between Russia and Japan first resolved the border issue declared the southern Kurils as Japan. Before this the status of the islands were left undetermined by both nations. But yes, afterwards the Japanese started their irresponsible colonial campaigns that lost them all the islands.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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