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Defiant Hashimoto says U.S. troops abused women during occupation

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Somebody put a muzzle on this guy.

26 ( +34 / -9 )

I guess his logic is that Japan did some awful stuff, but it ain't that bad because others did it as well. I think I learned in kindergarten that just because others do something bad doesn't make it right for me to do so.

44 ( +50 / -6 )

but it was a proven fact that Japanese had to built whorehouses for the occupying forces as to protect the majority of Japanese women.

-23 ( +15 / -39 )

Dennis Healey, a wise old political bruiser, once gave us Healey's first law of holes. If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Hashimoto is caked in dirt and is still burrowing down. Let's hope he doesn't resurface.

27 ( +31 / -4 )

Mr Hashimoto, please stop talking! You already made a problem, and every time you talk it is becoming more stupid thing! Shut up, silly man!

15 ( +25 / -10 )

Just found this on Wiki...

Many Japanese civilians in the Japanese mainland feared that the Allied occupation troops were likely to rape Japanese women. The Japanese authorities set up a large system of prostitution facilities (RAA) in order to protect the population. According to John W. Dower, precisely as the Japanese government had hoped when it created the prostitution facilities, while the RAA was in place "the incidence of rape remained relatively low given the huge size of the occupation force". 130 However, there was a resulting large rise in venereal disease among the soldiers, which led the US army to close down the prostitution in early 1946. The incidence of rape increased after the closure of the brothels, possibly eight-fold; Dower states that "According to one calculation the number of rapes and assaults on Japanese women amounted to around 40 daily while the RAA was in operation, and then rose to an average of 330 a day after it was terminated in early 1946." Michael S. Molasky states that while rape and other violent crime was widespread in naval ports like Yokosuka and Yokohama during the first few weeks of occupation, according to Japanese police reports and journalistic studies, the number of incidents declined shortly after and were not common on mainland Japan throughout the rest of occupation. Two weeks into the occupation the Occupation administration began censoring all media, this included any mention of rape or other sensitive social issues...

Just threw this in to widen the debate a wee bit. It doesn't justify any of Hashimoto's comments, but does expand the argument a bit.

8 ( +21 / -13 )

Tell you what, Hashimoto, if and when a US politician makes the incorrect stupid claim, similar to the one you idiotically made, that US troops never abused any women during the occupation or if they claim that that abuse 'made things nicer and more relaxing' for the US troops, then come back with a comment. Until then, you should keep your trap shut already.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

According to John W. Dower, precisely as the Japanese government had hoped when it created the prostitution facilities, while the R.A.A. was in place "the incidence of rape remained relatively low given the huge size of the occupation force".[8]:130 However, there was a resulting large rise in venereal diseases, where for example in one army unit 70% tested positive for syphilis and 50% for gonorrhea, which led the US army to close down the prostitution.[8]:130

The incidence of rape increased after the closure of the brothels, possibly eight-fold; Dower states that "According to one calculation the number of rapes and assaults on Japanese women amounted to around 40 daily while the R.A.A was in operation, and then rose to an average of 330 a day after it was terminated in early 1946."[8]:579

According to Terèse Svoboda "the number of reported rapes soared" after the closure of the brothels, and she takes this as evidence that the Japanese had been successful in suppressing incidents of rape by providing prostitutes to the soldiers.[10] Svoboda gives one example where R.A.A. facilities were active but some not yet ready to open and "hundreds of American soldiers broke into two of their facilities and raped all the women".[10] According to Svoboda there are two large events of mass rape recorded by Yuki Tanaka at the time that the R.A.A. brothels were closed down in 1946.[10]

According to Tanaka, close to midnight on April 4, an estimated 50 GIs arriving in 3 trucks assaulted the Nakamura Hospital in Omori district.[11] Attacking at the blow of a whistle, over the period of one hour they raped more than 40 patients and an estimated 37 female staff.[12] One of the raped women had a two-day old baby that was killed by being thrown on the floor, and also some male patients who tried to protect the women were killed.[13]

According to Tanaka, on April 11, between 30 and 60 US soldiers cut phone lines to a housing block in Nagoya city, and simultaneously raped "many girls and women between the ages of 10 and 55 years."[14]

Michael S. Molasky, Japanese literature, language and jazz researcher, states in his study of Japanese post-war novels and other pulp literature, that while rape and other violent crime was widespread in naval ports like Yokosuka and Yokohama during the first few weeks of occupation, according to Japanese police reports, the number of incidents declined shortly after and were not common on mainland Japan throughout the rest of occupation.

3 ( +14 / -10 )

Allan Clifton, an Australian officer who acted as interpreter and criminal investigator wrote

I stood beside a bed in hospital. On it lay a girl, unconscious, her long, black hair in wild tumult on the pillow. A doctor and two nurses were working to revive her. An hour before she had been raped by twenty soldiers. We found her where they had left her, on a piece of waste land. The hospital was in Hiroshima. The girl was Japanese. The soldiers were Australians. The moaning and wailing had ceased and she was quiet now. The tortured tension on her face had slipped away, and the soft brown skin was smooth and unwrinkled, stained with tears like the face of a child that has cried herself to sleep.[2]:126–7

1 ( +14 / -11 )

hypocrites Allied forces are not saints.

-21 ( +13 / -34 )

Thunderbird that's been posted a number of times before, it does nothing to change the fact that Hashimoto is arguing like a child getting caught doing something they shouldn't have.

He remarks are not for foreign ears here, it's for the Japanese who will vote in the next election. His "logic" is to obfuscate the situation to the degree that no body knows right from left and THAT will keep him in the clear.

This is all an orchestrated game being played by hashimoto to keep his name and his party in the forefront. Believe me, he couldn't buy this kind of advertising, and the people who back his party will eat this up!

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Let him keep digging his hole. He's sounding more like a lunatic every day.

Trying to go on the offensive to divert the attention from people calling for him to resign for being an asshat.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Allied forces are not saints.

No one said they were. However, it is Hashimoto that is making stupid comments, not former members of the allied forces. I see no reason to detract from this.

22 ( +24 / -2 )

Of course, Hashimoto has never abused a woman in his life.

Has he?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Defiant Hashimoto says U.S. troops abused women during occupation

This is already known. The U.S. military has a sexual abuse problem that continues into the present.

The cases last year are among thousands detailed in a searing 1,500-page Pentagon report on pervasive sexual abuse in the U.S. military released last week. It estimates a rate of about 500 men and women assaulted each week of 2012. The scandal is unfolding rapidly in an embarrassingly public manner, each new chapter confirming the report's finding that the abusive culture is endemic. Tuesday night, the Army revealed that Sgt. 1st Class Gregory McQueen, who was responsible for sexual assault prevention at Fort Hood, Texas, is under investigation for allegedly forcing another soldier into prostitution and assaulting two others.

So is prostitution the solution to sexual abuse? I think not.

5 ( +9 / -3 )

Wow, one minute the guy says he is insensitive to American perceptions, then he seems to know everything about them! Either way, the current government has GOT to distance themselves from this guy if they want American cooperation, which they need given what China is up to (now they claim Okinawa as theirs). The US should say to Abe -- get this guy out, or we leave, and leave you to China. Some might cheer such a thought, until they were forced not to stand up to the Japanese national anthem, but the Chinese one.

The US should bring up Hashimoto's own dodgy past if he wants to play such games -- he can't threaten them the way he does the Asahi Shimbun. Hashimoto is playing a game he is not yet big enough for, and I sincerely hope some Japanese politicians grow a pair and call him up on it.

18 ( +24 / -6 )

While the act of rape is horrible in any context or situation, there's a big difference between the depraved acts of individuals and the systematic implementation of sex-slavery by a government! Come on Hashimoto! Stop ruining my opinion of my beloved Osaka!

25 ( +26 / -1 )

Hashimoto, do not try to exonerate, justify or distance yourself from your own stupidity by pointing the finger at others! You are an outspoken right-wing fool and the more you try to rescue yourself the deeper you dig your own parliamentary grave. The reaper is coming for you very soon!

15 ( +15 / -0 )

It's indeed reprehensible for the American government and military to be silent on sexual abuse, whether it's perpetrated within its own ranks or on locals abroad. But the HUGE difference here is that American officials are not publicly LAUDING institutionalized sex slavery as a necessity for soldiers. Hashimoto's grasping at straws here.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

Of course, Hashimoto has never abused a woman in his life. Has he?

Ask his wife! She is the one he cheated on, if that ain't abuse what is? Would like to know if she really wanted all those kids too.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

the gov't has already distanced itself from hashimoto's remark: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/wartime-sex-slaves-were-necessary-to-maintain-discipline-says-japanese-politician/story-e6frg6so-1226642016419

only ishihara is backing his lackey.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Mayor Hashimoto's remark is offensive but not outrageous because many Japanese share the same question.

Why doesn't the U.S. military regret the fact that the American base commander made efforts to make Japan build whorehouses or "Japanese had to build whorehouses for the occupying forces as to protect the majority of Japanese women"? Many Japanese will be satisfied if this question is satisfactorily answered.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

This guy is simply a clown! Nothing more.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Why doesn't the U.S. military regret the fact that the American base commander made efforts to make Japan build whorehouses or "Japanese had to build whorehouses for the occupying forces as to protect the majority of Japanese women"? Many Japanese will be satisfied if this question is satisfactorily answered.

Well I guess Thunderbirds link does matter here. KappNets it was the Japanese who built and ran the whorehouses during the initial phases of the occupation immediately following Japan's defeat in WWII.

The Vice-PM figured that the American's were just like the Japanese and wanted places to go to get "comforted", PLUS his goal was to protect the "upper-class" women of Japan at the time from potential abuse and rape.

Read your own history a bit before pointing fingers elsewhere. Two wrongs do NOT make a right!

2 ( +6 / -4 )

it is unfair for America to criticize only Japan...said Hashimoto.

America, or rather State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki, wasn't criticizing Japan, she was directly criticizing Hashimoto for his "outrageous" comments. No criticism of Japan there.

Who does Hashimoto think he is to assume that criticism directed toward him equates to criticism of the whole nation of Japan? He's an embarrassment and liability to his country.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

loose cannon...he'll be out office soon

3 ( +4 / -1 )

and let's call a spade a spade. these women were "sex slaves" and not "comfort women." that euphamism tricks people into believing that this wasn't a horrific act.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

loose cannon...he'll be out office soon

How? Is he going to fire himself? Dude is too arrogant for that, and the Japanese people really don't care.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Mr. Hashimoto, Osaka's voters elected you to administer their city, not pick at scabs over things that happened several decades before you were born. If you are tired of working in government and want to go back to being a dempa geisha (clown for the media) then announce your resignation and let someone better qualified and more motivated take over.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

'Loose cannon....he'll be out of office soon' Ishihara has made a career out of this. I wouldn't hold your breath.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This guy is living in an alternate reality, hiring a prostitute for money is one thing but forcing 200,000 woman into the sex industry is another it is called human trafficking.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Almost inevitable that he would say soething else offensive. when is his planned visit to the "women of Okinawa"??

3 ( +3 / -0 )

America, or rather State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki, wasn't criticizing Japan, she was directly criticizing Hashimoto for his "outrageous" comments. No criticism of Japan there. Who does Hashimoto think he is to assume that criticism directed toward him equates to criticism of the whole nation of Japan? He's an embarrassment and liability to his country. Well said Sensato. You hit the nail directly on the head. The rest of the world knows not to judge an entire country on the rants of a lunatic.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

hashimoto is just such a sad little man.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You hit the nail directly on the head. The rest of the world knows not to judge an entire country on the rants of a lunatic.

Tell that to China and NK.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Notice how the majority of Hashimoto haters on here are American. Very willing to criticise but not willing to take any at all!

What Hashimoto said is true and I'm glad he let his comments be heard. America are no saints! How can the Americans become outraged by his comments when they also did such things? Disgusting.

I agree with Hashimoto. Japan did similar things but Hashimoto was absoloutely right to point out that America did these things to the women of Okinawa! I can't believe it. Looking at all the comments on here at the outraged Americans. "Let's all criticise Japan! We are America! The Heroes! We didn't commit any war crimes! We always respected and never discomforted the women and people of Okinawa!" "Japan did it so we're allowed too as well!"

The acts of America and Americans do make my blood boil. Take some criticism! The truth does hurt, but you must live with it.

Readers, thumb me down all you want. By the time you see this part you'd have read my comment which is what I've wanted.

-30 ( +7 / -37 )

My suspicion is, unfortunately, that this will make him more electable. Moral and cultural relativism lurk around all arguments and justifications and are the height of sophistication in a country where there is only pragmatism and little idealism (except of an idealised Japan itself).

2 ( +3 / -1 )

MumbaiRocks!May. 17, 2013 - 04:34PM JST I guess his logic is that Japan did some awful stuff, but it ain't that bad because others did it as well.

No, that's not his logic at all. As the article makes clear, he is saying that it's hypocritical of the United States to criticize Japan's WWII Comfort Women System when considering that the U.S. used the Pan Pan Girl system and the high number of Rapes on Okinawa. Unfortunately, what he says is logically correct, it IS hypocritical. However, the U.S. criticism of his "outrageous comment" ie; that the Comfort women were a "necessity" is valid. It was a stupid thing to say. I can not imagine any American politician saying that the Pan Pan Girls were a "necessity" at the time. Even though in reality, the US Army must have considered that it was.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

This guy keeps digging his own grave deeper and deeper.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Of course, Hashimoto has never abused a woman in his life.

My hypothesis is he was abused by women, when he was a baby. The baby-sitters knocked his head over the wall a few times too much. If he was already refusing to shut it up as he does now, we can't blame them. .

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"efiant Hashimoto says U.S. troops abused women during occupation"

Okay, so he is not wrong so what else shall we talk about........

How's the weather where you are at?

-3 ( +0 / -2 )

Should change defiant to "badly educated,xenophobic breacher of human rights Hashimoto"

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hiroki Azuma, Prof. of Waseda Univ. has said to Hashimoto, "There is no need to seriously consider discourse of respect for human rights of English-speaking countries because it is after all hypocrisy" in this tweet ttps://twitter.com/hazuma/status/334004071876947969.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Up to 200,000 “comfort women” from Korea, China, the Philippines and elsewhere were forcibly drafted into brothels catering to the Japanese military during WWII, according to many mainstream historians.

Really? There is no hard evidence that women were really forced to do it or not.

Seiji Yoshida a famous Japanese who,also himself was a Japanese soldier, said that there were many women who were forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers. But later he admitted that it was a fiction. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiji_Yoshida)

And also this makes many Japanese dubious about "forcing women to become comfort women " (http://makizushi33.ninja-web.net/img03_02.gif and http://makizushi33.ninja-web.net/img03_03.gif) It said that we are recruiting whore and that we will pay this amount of money and so forth. It means that they were not FORCED to do that job. (I am not a historian, so I don't know about detail but, I think now you can understand why there are some Japanese who support Hahimoto. And also there are lots of material which makes Japanese dubious about 'Forcing women to become sex slave.')

Here is a document which reads that those who work as "comfort women" were treated well and that they earned money. (http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html)

Toru Hashimoto, who said “comfort women” forced to provide sex to Japanese troops during World War II were a military necessity.

This is not true. He never said so. And I think this is the reason why many people think Hashimoto as a crazy guy and also Japan is crazy. He said that I am sorry for those women who didn't want to do that job but who had to done it. What he said necessary was to give soldiers sex opportunities in organised prostitution. If not, men would start to rape local women as many countries had done,which he raise examples of US troop raping Japanese women and other example I can give is Lai Đại Hàn, children whose mother is Vietnamese who was raped by South Korean soldiers during the Vietnam War . I will say it again. What he said necessary was an organised prostitution to avoid local women to be raped. He never said "forcing women to have sex"" was necessary.

Many people comments that you cannot justify yourself because there are another people who also had done a bad thing. Yes, it is right. And this is exactly what Hashimoto said. What he said is that I have to raise my voice to protect Japan from bad reputation which doesn't have hard evidence and that why only Japan should be blamed for having sex in organised prostitution despite the fact that many countries had also done it.

-18 ( +6 / -24 )

Jordan Lloyd told it as it is. Americans just can't take the sting of the truth. When you speak to much older Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese and Japanese, it is true that Americans and French were the worse.

-18 ( +4 / -22 )

Nice post kyou1 pointing out what he really said. His words were still offensive and insanely misogynist IMO but it really saddens me how rarely the English speaking press accurately translates Japanese.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Thunderbird et al,

Not convincing. The issue here is a systemic kidnapping of 1000s of women, taking them to other countries often near the front, (remember shell-shock?), and ddaily raping them over and over by 10s and 100s of men for months and years on end. Furthermore, the issue is a prominent leader is denying it happened, denying it was forced, denying it was a government plan, etc. US soldiers committing crimes on citizens is not something to be proud of, and when it was gang rapes, or resulted in death it is especially reprehensible. But that is just not the same as this comfort women system, not by a long shot.

(And furthermore, no one denies US soldiers have raped/ committed crimes. It is reported regularly. But to infer the Emperor's j soldiers could have possibly done something wrong or cruel, how dare they!!)

4 ( +6 / -2 )

papiguilio, thumbs up, but no, he is not simply a clown. He is Mayor of Osaka, and he will one day be Prime Minister. That's the problem! He is also a sleaze bag who cheated on his own wife for years at a time, hung out with whip mistresses and frequented illegal brothels. But he is so so popular, particularly in Osaka.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Mirai Hayashi, no, he won't be out of office soon. He will be re-elected as Mayor and will one day be Prime Minister. That is the problem.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Not convincing. The issue here is a systemic kidnapping of 1000s of women, taking them to other countries often near the front, (remember shell-shock?), and ddaily raping them over and over by 10s and 100s of men for months and years on end. Furthermore, the issue is a prominent leader is denying it happened, denying it was forced, denying it was a government plan, etc.

Despite over two decades of historians and activists actively searching everywhere, there is no physical evidence in existence that supports the claim that there were Japanese military orders to systematically kidnap women for the comfort system. In fact, the only physical evidence that exists is Japanese military orders not to kidnap women and to hire volunteers.

Also before replying please not the above does not mean that women were not kidnapped into the system. Only that the government plan to do so did not exist.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Yes, I have no doubt there was some abuse of women by allied troops during and after the war, but none of them forcibly kidnapped over 200,000 women, three-quarters of which died during their ordeal, and then had some nut-job turn around and say it was necessary and also deny they were kidnapped.

PS, I am not American, so once again, the foolishness of the right-wing Japanese shines through!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Goodbye Hashimoto! Go back to being a lawyer and see if anyone hires you to defend them after all this! I hope you will be able to support all your five, or is it seven, kids! You certainly like being in the sack and, be sacked, you will be! Vile little man!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This guy, Hashimoto just don't know when to stop!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Upgrayedd thank you for commenting me. 

My English writing leave much to be desired ,but still, average Japanese English ability is much much poor than me.(I am Japanese) And I don't know whether you know about it or not but, Japanese is shy and doesn't speak out even when it is necessary.It's Japanese culture and it has good point and bad point.

But this time , it went badly. While China and Korea were lobbying in many countries Japanese government had done nothing. As a result many people around the world believe what China and Korea had said and not knowing Japanese side at all.

So many people cannot understand what Hashimoto had said. Because they don't know that "Comfort women" issue is controversial.They think that it has hard evidence. Therefore many misunderstood that Hashimoto had said forcing women to become sex slave or rape was necessary. It is no wonder that many people thought Hashimoto is crazy.

This is a big issue for Japan. To make their citizen able to speak English better and speak out loud when it is necessary so that many people around the world would not misunderstand Japan.

-8 ( +2 / -9 )

“Mayor Hashimoto’s comments were outrageous and offensive,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters,

He is pathetic, but she goes down at his level by commenting officially. That's playing his game. Don't feed the troll !

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Jordan Loyd: "Notice how the majority of Hashimoto haters on here are American. Very willing to criticise but not willing to take any at all!"

Notice how you assume they are, but they are not? That kind of assumption is a big part of the problem. There's a good reason to hate Hashimoto, as many Japanese do now, and it has little to do with nationality and everything to do with his character and what he represents. You offend the man, and what does he do? He threatens you. You say you're against what he stands for, he shrugs and says, "So vote against me next time". He doesn't give on iota about anything but his own ego, and this has proven more than ever -- pointing that out does not make one a hater, either, but simply one pointing out the facts. The man cannot apologize when he does wrong, but point out his wrongs and he has a child-like tantrum, as is the case here. Just this morning he says he was insensitive, now he reacts with bombast and deflection.

Upgrayyed: "Despite over two decades of historians and activists actively searching everywhere, there is no physical evidence in existence that supports the claim that there were Japanese military orders to systematically kidnap women for the comfort system."

You have been presented with these facts for more than two days now. It's now our fault you choose not to see them, as with Hashimoto and others. "No proof"... hahaha... You've even been given quotes by former Imperial soldiers and chosen to ignore them, and just yesterday you yourself said, "Not ALL sex slaves were forced..." (meaning some were), did you not? Way to undermine your own credibility!

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Lowly,

The issue here is a systemic kidnapping of 1000s of women, taking them to other countries often near the front, (remember shell-shock?), and ddaily raping them over and over by 10s and 100s of men for months and years on end.

Really? Just read this document made by US Army in1944. http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

1 ( +1 / -0 )

kyou1: "Really? There is no hard evidence that women were really forced to do it or not."

Not on 2-Channel or nettoyu blogs, no. Shame that's all you choose to acknowledge on the matter and simply plug your ears, close your eyes, and whistle Bridge on the River Kwai when show ACTUAL facts.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Geeezzz this guy will start a war if he continued to talk he is like N Korea leader this guy can not zip his mouth. Honestly if Japan want forget the past first of all FIRED Hashimoto yesterday is late!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

No country is immune from abuse of women or children we only choose to ignore it , so stop throwing stones at each other the fact that one moron has to open his mouth only shows his ignorance. Nothing can ever excuse the war crimes inflicted by any country.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You have been presented with these facts for more than two days now. It's now our fault you choose not to see them, as with Hashimoto and others. "No proof"... hahaha... You've even been given quotes by former Imperial soldiers and chosen to ignore them, and just yesterday you yourself said, "Not ALL sex slaves were forced..." (meaning some were), did you not? Way to undermine your own credibility!

No one has posted any physical evidence supporting the claim that there were Japanese military orders to kidnap women.

I never said "not all sex slaves were forced" anyway. I said not all comfort women were forced into sexual slavery but some were but this was not a result of government orders to kidnap them.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Lowly:

You are misinformed. (This is not to justify what Japan did, but it would be important to eliminate misunderstandings.)

"Kidnapping" must by definition include the use of "force" while the evidences show that the girls were simply seduced into prostitution by "private" traders; the true reason for prostitution is always poverty (Koreans during the war or Japanese after the war).

The expression "raping them over and over by 10s and 100s of men for months and years" may be figuratively close to truth but not exactly true because "raping" does not usually involve payment . Each Japanese soldier were told to pay (generously?) in the brothel. There were Army medics.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"Hashimoto, whose quick tongue and forthright approach has won him friends and enemies"

I wouldn't have Hashimoto or any of his "friends" over to my place for dinner.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithjapan

Which one is not true?

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiji_Yoshida

2.<http://makizushi33.ninja-web.net/img03_02.gif >

3.http://makizushi33.ninja-web.net/img03_03.gif)

4.http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

NO 2 Channel at all.

1 is from Wikipedia. 2 and 3 were originally on the website of Korean government (so words of hangeul below)

4 was made by American .

4 read as follow

A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a 『prostitute』 or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers.

I understand that you think that I am simply plugging my ears, closing my eyes.Because I am Japanese. Then please give me an evidence that 200,000 women were forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers. If you could, I would of course admit it. But I can't find it out any hard evidence so far. I know that I may be biased about "comfort women" issue. So please give me an evidence. I really want to know the truth of this big issue.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

There are several things that are true here;

Mr Hashimoto's apology for his remarks was aimed at the US and international audience in general.

His Twitter attack only several hours later was clearly intended for domestic consumption, by his like-minded far right wing fringe supporters.

Any politician who makes remarks like these, apologizes for them, then "doubles down" on them later is far from fit to hold any public office or in any way be associated with formulating public policy.

While the stated rationale for the US-Japan Security Alliance is to protect Japan from exterior threats, the real value and unstated objective of the treaty is to ensure far right wing nuts like Hashimoto and his mentor Ishihara do not take Japan again down the road of militarism.

Isn't it interesting that we are seeing comments from China recently on Okinawa - what are China's reasons for making these comments? While it could be as part of their overall strategic campaign to control the Senkakus, could it also be to provide a perceived "threat" - with the goal of strengthening the alliance, to keep Japanese unilateral militarism in check?
5 ( +5 / -0 )

Ah, the well used tactic. When trying to divert attention away from yourself, lob some accusations at the U.S. It's one of those things...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Masswipe

That's what Hashimoto's comments are comparable to saying in the Japanese context.

It's not comparable in any way. Have you read a complete translation of what he actually said or do you know enough Japanese to understand the original?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMjVAaZBb0Y

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

MASSWIPE

You are misunderstanding too. Hashimoto and some Japanese are denying that there was a plan made by the military authorities or Japanese government to kidnap women and force them to become sex slave.

He didn't said Japanese soldiers had never raped. I am sure there were unfortunately, rapes by Japanese soldiers as like many countries did

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Prime Minister Abe said "There is Kisen House in Korea, many people are doing prostitution on a daily basis in practice. So, I believe that sexual slavery is not a terrible act, and even suspect that blend into the daily life considerably." http://www.abetomoko.jp/kokkai/166/166_kokusai-6.html

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Someone put a sock in this guys mouth. Yes it was war time lets be realistic here during all wars there were rapes commited by ALL countries and who ever sais otherwise is absolutely wrong. I dont think that Japan will apologize fir this because what does apology mean? It means that Japan admits it what goes after apology? conpensation money wise ofcourse.

I do beleave that during WW2 troops here raped women and i do beleave that when Americans first came here they raped Japanese women too just like it occurs now once in a while.

I think that all of this should be just sropped at this point Hashimoto needs to apologise to all people of Japan and to American troops and just sit in his tiny office and worry nott o get kicked from his position.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

All this prostitution and rapes by society is not good and maybe a reason for the declining birth rates. All the money in the world will never be able to fix it. Being close to Mother's day maybe Hashimoto had something that he needed to get off his chest.

Please don't support the Gov prostitution, rapes, pornography => and Japan can have strong families with children once again. A sign of a strong healthy society is having strong women leading strong families.

If I were Hashimoto I would continue to go with this and pump the heat up. The comments on Okinawa prostitutes were wrong and damaging however ==> If anything the bases on Okinawa should be expunged.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

For those people who keeps insisting there were no proof that the sex slaves were forced, I urge you to read Japantoday's ariticle again and pay particular attention to these sentences:

Up to 200,000 “comfort women” from Korea, China, the Philippines and elsewhere were forcibly drafted into >brothels catering to the Japanese military during WWII, according to many mainstream historians.

There is no mainstream evidence that modern militaries other than Japan’s have employed a formal sex >slavery system.

So instead of insisting on posting garbage hack job selective 'evidences' from 2ch and others, if you want to argue with mainstream historians, you better do a better job of convincing them first. That way, your views become the mainstream views, and Japan's problem of convincing other countries that sex slaves were fake, is also solved.

-5 ( +2 / -8 )

chucky3176 Koreans say that in Japan you must correct the Raitaihan of Vietnam! Japan I will not have such force hauled comfort women!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Up to 200,000 “comfort women” from Korea, China, the Philippines and elsewhere were forcibly drafted into brothels catering to the Japanese military during WWII, according to many mainstream historians.

That doesn't change the fact that no evidence has ever been found that the Japanese army or the military officials had orders to seize comfort women by force. This is recognized by all historians, something completely ignored by the AFP authors of the article.

There is no mainstream evidence that modern militaries other than Japan’s have employed a formal sex slavery system.

We went over this yesterday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_princess

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Actually, Hashimoto is right. Incidents of rape in Japan were particularly egregious during the spring of 1946. In Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of WWII, John Dower says that “the number of rapes and assaults on Japanese women were around 40 per day... and then rose to an average of 330 a day in early 1946.” on April 4, fifty GIs broke into a hospital in Omori prefecture and raped 77 women, including a woman who had just given birth, killing the two-day-old baby by tossing it onto the floor. And on April 11, forty US soldiers cut off the phone lines of one of Nagoya’s city blocks and entered a number of houses simultaneously, “raping many girls and women between the ages of 10 and 55 years.”

Research it if you don't believe me,,,

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This thread becomes really ridiculous and out of topic.

To move forward, the most important is not the "how/why/whom/when" made this happening, but to admit it was wrong. Then historians from various countries can try establish an as objective as possible truth.

Making amalgam with other bad things made by other countries is nothing but an attempt to create a smoke screen to avoid facing reality and to exacerbate nationalism.

This is why I am convinced Hashimoto is a dangerous person. If Japan is a true democracy, he should disappear from the radar at the next elections. If he remains, something serious is going on here.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hashimoto is right: Okinawan historian Oshiro Masayasu (former director of the Okinawa Prefectural Historical Archives) writes: Soon after the U.S. marines landed, all the women of a village on Motobu Peninsula fell into the hands of American soldiers. At the time, there were only women, children and old people in the village, as all the young men had been mobilized for the war. Soon after landing, the marines "mopped up" the entire village, but found no signs of Japanese forces. Taking advantage of the situation, they started "hunting for women" in broad daylight and those who were hiding in the village or nearby air raid shelters were dragged out one after another.[2]: 111 Peter Schrijvers finds it remarkable that looking Asian was enough to be in danger of rape by American soldiers, as for example happened to some of the Korean comfort women that the Japanese had by force brought to the island.[3] Schrijvers writes that "many women" were brutally violated with "not even the least mercy".[3] Marching south, men of the 4th Marines passed a group of some 10 American soldiers bunched together in a tight circle next to the road. They were 'quite animated,' noted a corporal who assumed they were playing a game of craps. 'Then as we passed them,' said the shocked marine, 'I could see they were taking turns raping an oriental woman. I was furious, but our outfit kept marching by as though nothing unusual was going on.'[3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Japan

1 ( +5 / -4 )

One of the misunderstanding on the part of you Americans is that they/you are unaware that, after WWII, the American government (exactly, the American base commander) asked Japanese government/officials to set up prostitution centers using Japanese women.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/23/opinion/l-japanese-didn-t-invent-military-sex-industry-354592.html

Of course, "the American base commander" did this in the back (just as the Japanese army DID NOT OFFICIALLY COERCE Korean girls into prostitution). Mayer Hashimoto wants us to discuss the involvement of American official in setting up a brothel. Isn't it unfair if you simply insist that what the U.S. commander did was the right thing and the Japanese army did the wrong thing? To some, it seems that both Japanese and American commanders did the same thing: getting girls for their soldiers by technically unofficial means but by using official pressure.

3 ( +5 / -1 )

chucky3176, just read this document made by US Army in 1944. http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.

By the way, who are the "mainstream historians" on the subject of comfort women?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

really? I thought just a week he was totally sympathetic and offering okinawan women so american GIs can "release" their pent up energies? what happened? Even in Singapore/Malaysia where I reside their are women tell horrific tales of what Japanese did ..I think Japan he squandering whatever good will they have earned by choosing these monkeys as their leaders

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh dear oh dear, this is getting so ugly.

First off all, about the "lack of evidence"

Really? There is no hard evidence that women were really forced to do it or not.

The main reason there is a lack of evidence in general, is because Japan, conveniently made no effort whatsoever after WW2 to gather information on what had happened. Japan probably thought this was a wise strategy that would allow it to escape various kinds of criticism. Japan didn't document, and did not educate its people. Then, a few decades later, people form other countries strated to come out with what they had gathered. If only Japan had been more proactive then...

Seiji Yoshida a famous Japanese who,also himself was a Japanese soldier, said that there were many women who were forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers. But later he admitted that it was a fiction. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiji_Yoshida)

See? This is exactly what I am talking about. The source you are citing is a communist novelist and ex-soldier. Behold, everyone, the kind of high level authorities Japan has produced regarding this topic!! Not even a journalist, not a historian. No, a novelist ex-soldier. And, more importantly, look at the conclusions that are made by this Japanese poster: "the novelist wrote fiction that really turned out to be partly fiction, hence there is no hard evidence". Now, where is the logic in all this??? There is none. Perhaps the Japanese brain loses its capabilities for logical thinking whenever this topic comes up?

It said that we are recruiting whore and that we will pay this amount of money and so forth. It means that they were not FORCED to do that job.

Another interesting one. So, they apparently put up an ad for a "whore". "Hence," this Japanese poster Kyou1 says, "there has been no forced prostitution at all." It's ridiculous. It's like proving the atomic bombs were not dropped because you know that the US was also in possession of other non-atomic bombs.

Next one:

Here is a document which reads that those who work as "comfort women" were treated well and that they earned money. (http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html)

From the document: "The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy." "On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen."

A bit further in the document: "The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ..."

And: "The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. "

And: "Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles."

So, this Japanese guy kyou1 posting here uses this as a proof of how well these girls were treated, and also claims there was no evidence for forced prostitution. Yet, in the link he provides us there is, in ONE document: false representations at recruitement, making the girls accepting a debt, and the "house master" receiving most of the income and charging them a lot for food. Now, what does this sound like exactly?? Indeed: modern human trafficking of girls who end up in the sex industry and can't quit because they have a debt to pay to the gangers that recruited them. In other words: complete and utter forced prostitution.

People, this is all from 1 link that the Japanese poster "kyou1" gave us as a reference for how well the girls were treated, a few lines after he said there was no evidence for forced prostitution. Can you believe it??

What he said is that I have to raise my voice to protect Japan from bad reputation which doesn't have hard evidence and that why only Japan should be blamed for having sex in organised prostitution despite the fact that many countries had also done it.

Japan has made this bad reputation by herself. First, she did horrible things. Then she did no effort to gather information on the truth. Then guys like Ishihara and Hashimoto showed up who offend and apologize, offend and appologize, offend and apologize. Look how many times we have apologized, say the Japanese, ignoring all the insults they made. What's more, the Japanese LOVE politicians like this, and keeps re-electing them. It makes Japan look like a backward country of negationists. If Japan had been more honest from the start, Japan would not have a bad reputation now.

Japanese is shy and doesn't speak out even when it is necessary.It's Japanese culture and it has good point and bad point.

Kyou1, you are not among tourists here. Most posters here are living in Japan. There is therefore no need to tell lies. Japan as a country has bad relationships with all its neighboring countries and one reason for that is exactly because the country Japan is not shy at all, but rather insensitive and stubborn, and has a high pride.

As for Hashimoto, he is handling this like a right-winger on the internet: trying to sound hash and straight to the point, but lacking in education and sense to convince anyone except those that are already convinced anyway (and are equally lacking in education and sense). It starts with denial, then pointing out that everyone is also doing it. By that time he has forgotten that he has just contradicted his original denial. Then he has to twist words, insert a fake apology that is more blaming the others than himself ("I am sorry that they misunderstood me" etc). In other words, this guys carreer as a politician in Japan can not fail.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Actually, Hashimoto is right. Incidents of rape in Japan were particularly egregious during the spring of 1946. In Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of WWII, John Dower says that “the number of rapes and assaults on Japanese women were around 40 per day... and then rose to an average of 330 a day in early 1946.” on April 4, fifty GIs broke into a hospital in Omori prefecture and raped 77 women, including a woman who had just given birth, killing the two-day-old baby by tossing it onto the floor. And on April 11, forty US soldiers cut off the phone lines of one of Nagoya’s city blocks and entered a number of houses simultaneously, “raping many girls and women between the ages of 10 and 55 years.”

Research it if you don't believe me

That is HORRIFYING. Even a woman who had just given birth, they killed the child by throwing it. Throwing it. They also raped children. I don't want to have an outburst but I'm so enraged after reading that! How can the Americans claim to be innocent or "not that bad"? The world needs to open it's eyes, the Americans in particular. They are not saints, they are not heroes, they are filth.

What Morry says here is a lesson to the outraged Americans to DO SOME RESARCH. How can they dare be outraged when their army has done this? All the outraged Americans on this post are disgusting. America are the real evil ones. They had just occupied Japan and one would hope that they'd now bring stability and help in order for the country to rebuild into a good state. But they didn't.. I don't need to explain any more. Just read what Morry said, read it!

The yanks need to check their history before opening their mouths.

Bring on the thumb downs, I'm waiting :)

-6 ( +5 / -10 )

Japanese more than half, comfort women 's three million monthly salary.

While this will definitely get deleted, I will ask you anyway.

Are you willing to be used and abused for 3 million yen a month, even though you never asked for it nor wanted it in the first place?

You think that money justifies the actions? You think that because they were paid, better than their "customers" it makes what happened ok? Getting paid justifies it?

Sick....sick, sick, sick, nothing more I can say.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And another thing... Since these women were supposedly treated so well (better than many are treated now in Japan apparently), and that all the ex-"comfort women" who are complaining now are obviously frauds... where are the Japan-loving well-treated ex-"comfort women" to defend Japan and its past great sex system?

Each time this topic comes up, there must be hundreds of women saying "hey, things were not so bad!! We got a fair salary and were never forced to do anything we didn't want to do!"

Right, there must be hundreds of them, right?

Well, where are they?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

According to John Dower, Allied Occupation authorities imposed wide-ranging censorship on the Japanese media, which was imposed in September 1945 and continued until the (1952) end of the occupation,[8]:406 including bans on covering many sensitive social issues and serious crimes such as rape committed by members of the Occupation forces.[8]:412 The censorship hardened and grew over the months from its initial goal of suppressing militaristic and ultra-nationalistic ideas into also suppressing anything that was "'leftist' or even remotely critical of American policies".[8]:406,408 According to Eiji Takemae and Robert Ricketts, Allied Occupation forces suppressed news of criminal activities such as rape; on September 10, 1945 SCAP "issued press and pre-censorship codes outlawing the publication of all reports and statistics 'inimical to the objectives of the Occupation'."[18] (wikipedia)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Maybe a good start would be to stop using the euphemism "comfort women" and start calling them what they were -- rape victims.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Hashimoto: The United States should face what the US military did against local women"

It has. The question is, when is Hashimoto going to face up to the fact that Japanese soldiers caused way more suffering to local women?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

brianct, no doubt you are trying to change the topic of the discussion, or you are trying to imply that "Americans are just as bad as Japanese!", but let us put it very clearly right from the start:

The day that the mayor of an big US city publicly announces that those rapes were necessary, for allowing the soldiers to let of some steam, and the American citizens as a whole do not really disagree with what he is saying, THAT day the Americans will be as bad as the Japanese, and not a day earlier.

And this comes from someone who does not have a particularly high opinion of Americans.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan has no plausible deniability.

I know the world loves to dwell on Japanese crimes but how many men went to jail for sex slave trafficking in Bosnia? There is little doubt that it was organized. The American whistle blower, Kathryn Bolkovac, won a suit against DynCorp for being fired after she blew the whistle.

The British army officially approved of officers and men visiting brothels during WW1 and even provided medical assistance to the prostitutes. They thought the men would fight harder if they had sex.

Read this, if you dare, about how the South Korean government operated brothels and how hookers made 25% of the countries GDP. And don't kid yourself, thousands of girls were forced into it. And if the US army was issuing "STD Free" cards to the prostitutes it is the same as being officially sanctioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_princess

The French Foreign Legion had officially organized brothels until 1990.

I

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Jordan Lloyd: "Right you are. I think I speak on the behalf of many when I say that I also want the Americans out of Okinawa! They are not needed! Get out!"

This coming from a guy who automatically assumes if his opinions are not met 'everyone is American'. You lost your credibility with your first post, my friend. Many people, including Japanese, who despise Hashimoto for his comments are not Japanese, but I thought it was amusing and very telling of your nature you would assume they were American.

CH3CHO: "By the way, who are the "mainstream historians" on the subject of comfort women?"

Well, in your case, Japanese 'historians' who were not only never there, but who claim those who were there and admit the atrocities are wrong while they are correct. You may as well start citing Tojo's granddaughter as your source of proof, the way you are going.

Upgrayyed: "That doesn't change the fact that no evidence has ever been found that the Japanese army or the military officials had orders to seize comfort women by force. This is recognized by all historians, something completely ignored by the AFP authors of the article."

Please! At least don't bring in comedy while I'm drinking coffee!

"We went over this yesterday."

Ah, yes... you remember yesterday, just not any of the facts given to you then. Quick! Go ask 2-Channel what to do!!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

For the sake of argument, let's say they weren't forced or fraudulently lead to battlefield comfort stations. Let's say that for the sake of argument. So the next question is then, did these women who were hired as prostitutes, have the choice to quit after they arrived and saw the conditions? What happened to the women who refused to continue to do their work? Did they have the choice to say, I'm not doing this, I'm going home?

If the answers are no, then it's still forced prostitution or sexual slavery, even if they were prostitutes. Even in common laws of most civilized nations, it is still against the law to rape prostitutes. So the entire argument that it was OK, because these were paid women, just cannot be justified by using the line that they were professionals.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

what do americans know about the atrocities of their army?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

brianct May. 17, 2013 - 09:59PM JST

US army accepted rape by troops thats why they engaged in censorship....matter of historic record

US far worse than japanese: US has continued its imperial practices today in places like Okinawa: japan ceased decades ago

Brianct, I completely agree. That's correct.

On a site called "Japan today" One would be surprised to see the majority of it's users going against Japan! Many of the users going against Japan are American. See how they suddenly get very defensive and outraged when fingers are pointed at them? The American forces in Japan were vile and disgusting but the American's just pick away at the Japanese and try to figure out ways to prove their innocence. They become mad when someone turns around and says "Hang on a minute, we did that, but you did it too." And quite possibly what seems to have been on quite a larger scale and intensity!

I just don't know what to say about the Americans who believe they've done nothing wrong, or that what they've done gets cancelled out because "The Japanese were worse".

1 ( +5 / -4 )

What Hashimoto says is the truth. War is war and always women are prone to be raped as are men and children as well. It happened in all fronts during WWII.

-1 ( +3 / -3 )

Politically correct or not,....Hashimoto is Right ! Just because american political figures hide the truth doesn't change it. And they wonder why america suffers from violence today. chickens coming home, chickens coming home...

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The entire occupation was halted by MacArthur -- a fact little known to Americans.

There were so many rapes, murders and robberies by U.S. troops that General MacArthur ordered a stand down of the occupation, confining troops to bases and barracks, while commanders from throughout Japan were summoned to Tokyo by MacArthur.

MacArthur feared a massive uprising and rebellion that would threaten the entire occupation.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The British army officially approved of officers and men visiting brothels during WW1 and even provided medical assistance to the prostitutes. They thought the men would fight harder if they had sex.

So?

Read this, if you dare, about how the South Korean government operated brothels and how hookers made 25% of the countries GDP. And don't kid yourself, thousands of girls were forced into it. And if the US army was issuing "STD Free" cards to the prostitutes it is the same as being officially sanctioned

So again?

The French Foreign Legion had officially organized brothels until 1990.

So what?

Adding things like this just makes everything look like an excuse to justify your own actions and the actions of the IJA at the time.

So if I rape you, it's ok right! Why you ask? Because to use your logic, these other folks around the world are doing it as well so it makes it alright for me to do it to you too!

I highly doubt that you would accept it as a reason and would want justice too!

And yes, I believe it needs to be taken down to the personal level, because everyone who is making excuses for the IJA and their actions, including Hashi-nut case-moto,, are using the excuse because "others" did it, before or after doesnt matter, just that they used hookers, it makes what the Japanese did as no big deal!

I doubt the doubters or naysayers can do this, but put yourself in their, these women' position. Imagine for a moment the pain , suffering, humiliation, degradation and lord knows what else, are you going to sit here and say "hey it's cool, they paid me a ton of cash.......be for real!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Jordan LloydMay. 17, 2013 - 09:42PM JST

Research it if you don't believe me

That is HORRIFYING. Even a woman who had just given birth, they killed the child by throwing it. Throwing it. They also raped children. I don't want to have an outburst but I'm so enraged after reading that! How can the Americans claim to be innocent or "not that bad"?

Sorry, but everyone quotes Dower as the Oracle and while I have a lot of respect for the guy and his previous work, War Without Mercy (by the way he really contradicts himself in both writings, by asking in 'War Without Mercy' why that such a brutal Pacific campaign had turned into such a paternalistic occupation? He concludes that the occupiers of the 3 main Japanese islands were not the same working class troops who had stormed Iwo Jima. The 3 main islands mainly got the Donald Keenes and it was only the Okinawans and Kyushans who had to accomodate the Pacific fighters), but 'Embracing Defeat' was his 'Stockholm Syndrome' moment for his wife.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

to take the other side, Hashimoto is quite wrong in defending /'comfort women' as some sort of military necessity..Since when is rape ever acceptable. But its fun seeing US defend ITS practices; putting Hashimoto mayor of Osaka on same level as US regime

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Upgrayyed: "No one has posted any physical evidence supporting the claim that there were Japanese military orders to kidnap women."

Once again, they have time and again. You just choose not to see it. That's called having the blinders on. When it suits you, you take them off. When you don't like it, you put them on and deny everything under the sun and claim attack on culture, victimization, etc.

"I never said "not all sex slaves were forced" anyway. I said not all comfort women were forced into sexual slavery but some were but this was not a result of government orders to kidnap them."

So in essence what you said is that SOME comfort women WERE forced into sexual slavery, no? You never said anything about it being not by government orders. You only said that some were not forced. As I have said, you undermine your own arguments, and we thank you for it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Okay then smithinjapan,

All I have to say to you, is that I have made no suggestions that all people that hate Hashimoto are all and only American. Of course there will be people of other nationalities that hate him. But what he's said here is very true, and I'm extremely glad he has done so. It's giving people a lot of thought now on what the Americans were actually like, and not what they are made out to be.

0 ( +6 / -5 )

I don't think any of here for a moment condone what Hashimoto is saying, but the stuff about the rapes in the early years of the occupation of Japan does make your stomach turn. American and French forces also gang-raped over 11,000 women in occupied Germany. Of course this has nothing to do with Hashimoto's remarks, but seen in context you can start to see why he would say what he said.

Don't get me wrong, I despise the man to his very core... I just wanted to perhaps illustrate where he's getting his ideas about US rapes from.

Personally I have always thought that there was something rather nasty about the US attitude towards the Japanese during the war, as if they saw them as sub-human. After all, US forces would call the Japanese monkeys for some reason, and the allied war effort was against Japan as a nation, unlike in Europe where the war effort was to defeat the Nazis. This is all probably off topic, but I just wanted to shove my opinion in.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

He's just a local mayor. His opinions are not worth spit to international politics. I don't know why anyone in the US responded to him.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Thunderbird2May. 17, 2013 - 10:26PM JST

American and French forces also gang-raped over 11,000 women in occupied Germany. ...............

Personally I have always thought that there was something rather nasty about the US attitude towards the Japanese during the war, as if they saw them as sub-human. After all, US forces would call the Japanese monkeys for some reason, and the allied war effort was against Japan as a nation, unlike in Europe where the war effort was to defeat the Nazis.

Advice, stick to Channel 2, they might understand your logic: Nobody else does.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I think people were outraged at how he framed his comments: "soldiers living with the daily threat of death needed some way to let off steam and that this was provided by the comfort women system."

I don't know too many people who would call rapists people who were letting off steam. That's what this is about and he doesn't get it since his only response what that other countries raped, too. A lot of people commenting on this thread don't get it as well.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

well tacitus: 'He's just a local mayor. His opinions are not worth spit to international politics. I don't know why anyone in the US responded to him.'

those politicians of internationjal politics..who are they but party apparatchiks! not worth a spit. They dont serve their peoples, they serve whatever power elite really rules

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don't see anything wrong with American soldiers having sex with paid Japanese prostitutes who offered their services after Japan's defeat in a war that they started. I'm not sure why the Japanese think they were rapes. There were no rapes, they were all paid prostitutes.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

proxyMay. 17, 2013 - 10:06PM JST

I know the world loves to dwell on Japanese crimes but how many men went to jail for sex slave trafficking in Bosnia?

More than in Japan and they haven't, as yet, ended up being policymakers in the Bosnian ministry of education after the fact.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Thunderbird2: Personally I have always thought that there was something rather nasty about the US attitude towards the Japanese during the war, as if they saw them as sub-human. After all, US forces would call the Japanese monkeys for some reason, and the allied war effort was against Japan as a nation, unlike in Europe where the war effort was to defeat the Nazis.

I've heard the opinion that fighting between two different races can produce some horrible results. There is something where the other side seems less than human.

In Europe there was fighting between countries that had, at the very least, common borders and similar races. A lot of Americans fighting there had German ancestry. There's a famous story about a soccer match between England and Germany one night in the middle of the war. Take all of that away and you probably have some serious compassion issues.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hashimoto's diversion is working at full!

US posters rushing in this thread and the ones pursuing the provocation are just of Hashimoto's caliber.

In summary, bad behavior will never justify bad behavior.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Even today there are reports of american GI:s raping women in Okinawa. The point cant be if an army does so or not, as far as I know they have always done so. The disciplined army that only behaves in an acceptable manner is mostly a political and literary fabrication. The point should be about what it means for officials to formalize and systematize rape in order to facilitate a supposedly natural occurrence in a state of war. The logic expressed by Hashimoto seems to be of the same kind as expressed in nazi germany and several other countries at that time, rational but morally severely misguided.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, who started this sex slavery in Asia.........Japan. Hashimoto-kun, why change the topic, and throwing the ball to US, France and Germany, the discussion is on in Asia!

@ YUBARU Philippines nor Vietman were only victims here, can you give examples why they should be blame as well?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@ YUBARU Philippines nor Vietman were only victims here, can you give examples why they should be blame as well?

Nope I wont, and you know why? Because people are just looking for excuses or reasons, to justify their own position, and refuse to focus on the topic at hand JAPAN!

Put an article here talking about these other countries and different situations and I will gladly discuss them, until then no I wont.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's the whole attitude of J politicians and some J people:

Yes, somebody did it somewhere, so it's all fine for them to rape the whole city, kill everybody they saw, dissect live people etc.

Do they have any morale/conscience left in their stupid peanut mind?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hashimoto's political downfall. Open foot place in mouth for that guy

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Soldiers running amok is one thing, a government forcing women and girls into sexual slavery is another. The latter is what the Japanese did.

Hashimoto is now arguing off the point having put his foot in his mouth. Grant this idiot one brownie point for admitting that Japan engaged in sexual slavery.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Since Hashimoto began his speech with Comfort Women activity Japanese military enforced during WW II, please check Comfort Women article of WikiPedia before you state about any prostitution activities in the world. Let us discuss about Comfort Women system Japan had during WW II. About WikiPedia, Japanese language version explained more. If you don;t know Japanese language well, try English version, Also there are Koren, Chinese, Tagalog version. I read Japanese, and next Chinese, then English versions to ensure my understanding of Comfort Women issues.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

He make some sense this time.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

lol, wtf is that 'mainstream history' mentioned in article? I'd like to know, really. 'Mainstream history' is something different from the history itself???

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

STOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It`s just getting to the point where I get up in the morning and flick on to JT almost excited to see what this plonker has done now!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yubaru: Thanks!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

To rob12345

I am not trying to make you angry :-<

The main reason there is a lack of evidence in general, is because Japan, conveniently made no effort whatsoever after WW2 to gather information on what had happened. Japan probably thought this was a wise strategy that would allow it to escape various kinds of criticism. Japan didn't document, and did not educate its people. Then, a few decades later, people form other countries strated to come out with what they had gathered. If only Japan had been more proactive then...

I can understand what you want to say. But still evidence is really important. Without evidence I can say that China had used atomic bomb against Japan.(Of course not true.) And then someone gonna ask me where is the evidence? Do you think it is OK for me to say that there is no evidence because China Government dumped it. No you can't do it. What I want to say is that you can say anything without evidence. So evidence is really important.

<>See? This is exactly what I am talking about. The source you are citing is a communist novelist and ex-soldier. Behold, everyone, the kind of high level authorities Japan has produced regarding this topic!! Not even a journalist, not a historian. No, a novelist ex-soldier. And, more importantly, look at the conclusions that are made by this Japanese poster: "the novelist wrote fiction that really turned out to be partly fiction, hence there is no hard evidence". Now, where is the logic in all this??? There is none. Perhaps the Japanese brain loses its capabilities for logical thinking whenever this topic comes up?

The reason why I refer to this is to explain why many Japanese are dubious about 'forcing women to become sex slave'. And OK, I can give you another fiction which was made by journalist. Uemura Takashi, who works for Asahi Shinbun. If you can read Japanese please read this.http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%A4%8D%E6%9D%91%E9%9A%86 I didn't say that because of this(fiction) it is proven that there were no women who were forced to become sex slave. Got it?

Another interesting one. So, they apparently put up an ad for a "whore". "Hence," this Japanese poster Kyou1 says, "there has been no forced prostitution at all." It's ridiculous. It's like proving the atomic bombs were not dropped because you know that the US was also in possession of other non-atomic bombs.

I see what you are getting at. But don't you know it is actually quite difficult to prove that there isn't(weren't) something.(My English is poor sorry) What I mean is that how can you prove that crow is black. You just have to bring one black crow. It's quite easy. But how can you prove that crow is not white. There are no white crow in the world (maybe it exist but assume that there is no white crow ) so how would you do it? You have to give many evidence that this crow is black , that one is also black ... it will not end. So I think that it is impossible to prove 100% sure that there wasn't women who were forced to become sex slave.

From the document: "The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy." "On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen."

A bit further in the document: "The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ..."

And: "The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. "

And: "Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles."

Hmm. OK.

generally making the soldiers happy

I think that every women can understand what does it mean.Don't you think so? So I think all of the women understand what they gonna do. Am a illogical? (If I am,sorry)

And you think those women were not treated fairly and they were poor.

http://makizushi33.ninja-web.net/img03_02.gif

Again. Please look at this. It read 300 yen for a month.

Therefore in fact they earned about 120~150 yen a month. I don't think this salary isn't bad considering that, in those days, men graduated from university earns 20 yen a month for their first salary. So I think they were not poor. On the contrary they were rich. Of course I won't say that Japan paid money so it is not a trouble. Yes, it is a tragedy.

Indeed: modern human trafficking of girls who end up in the sex industry and can't quit because they have a debt to pay to the gangers that recruited them. In other words: complete and utter forced prostitution.

I think it's a tragedy. But having debt was not Japan's fault. And they choose this job to pay back there debt. They weren't forced. Hashimoto said I am sorry for them. He did not say it was necessary.

Kyou1, you are not among tourists here. Most posters here are living in Japan. There is therefore no need to tell lies. Japan as a country has bad relationships with all its neighboring countries and one reason for that is exactly because the country Japan is not shy at all, but rather insensitive and stubborn, and has a high pride.

Oh really? My English teacher (American) often says that Japanese is shy. There are a lot of countries who have bad relationships with its neighboring countries.(not only Japan) And look at this.

http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/n/a/n/nanndemomatome2ch/org4196337.jpg

This is a questionary asking whether do you like Japan?

from top country is Vietnam Philippine Thai Indoneshia Singapore Malaysia HongKong Taiwan China Korea

Dark red means I really like Japan Pink means I like Japan Light blue means I don't like Japan Dark blue means I really don't like Japan

So you can see from it that except China and Korea 80% of people likes Japan.

Japan as a country has bad relationships with all its neighboring countries

Therefore this is incorrect. Maybe you would think this was fabricated by Japanese Media.

Then look at this.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2012/05/16/bbc-global-poll-japan-has-most-positive-influence-in-the-world/

I will say important thing again. Generally it is quite difficult to prove that there isn't'(were not) something.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

there were no rapes, those Japanese women were prostitutes. US soldiers should get what they paid for. Where are the evidence that there were any Japanese women and children being raped? I do not see any evidence at all, because there are no evidence of them. Give me one credible evidence that there were rapes of Japanese women, just one.

You sound just like Hashimoto now. Read the section I took from Wiki... after the brothels were closed down the US servicemen started raping women. Whether Wiki are citing lies I don't know, but I took it to be factual.

Again, not meaning to turn this around, but I felt I had to reply to Chucky's Hashimoto-esque rant.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ Yubaru Then don´t say all countries should be blame if you cannot give any reason at all. You are no moderator if you cannot balance your comments and answer!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Wow...train wreaks really do happen in slow motion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Jordan Lloyd, I thumbed you down without reading your comment.

Anyone with common sense can see that Hashimoto is an assclown and needs to be shut up.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

China vs. Japan is a known issue. But this thread shows clearly that US vs. Japan is not better. PATHETIC!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

kyou1, Upgrayedd, Kappnet2

Thank you for your comments. I completely agree with you. You are raising detailed and reliable sources.

And Lowly and Yubaru, you should see the fact, not Korean propaganda. More frequently they speak, so-called comfort women's statements are becoming less reliable. They have changed their testimonies so many times. They said they would bring firm evidence that they had been forced by the Japanese army when they see Hashimoto at the end of this month. I'm really looking forward to see it.

Mr. Hashimoto seems to be a joker to me. It is interesting to see his next move. He surely would take the responsibility what he has said, but before stpping down from the stage, I would like to see Western hypocricy and Korean propaganda are revealed to the world by him.

By the way, JT, where did you pick up the number 200,000? Who are the mainstream historians? Korean say 200,000 korean girls were taken to become comfort women forcibly. (At that time the number of Korean women between 16-21 was around 1,250,000. One sixth of them? Ridiculous.) Also, it is said over 60% of the comfort women were Japanese. Then how many women were there? Japanese soldiers abroad at WWII were said to be around 4,000,000, and they had troubles of shortage of food, arsenal, and so on. It is not reasonable to think they had such burden of so many non-combatants.

Please see the following YOUTUBE what was talked about in the Japanese Diet by Nariaki Nakayama. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNr5PJCFBE8

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Someone wrote 3 million to a comfort woman. Yen? Extremely wealthy then. Each one could own a bank with such money at that time. It was the time poor child who worked for newspaper delivery toiled with 2 yen a month.. .

1 ( +1 / -0 )

kidijapan

@ Yubaru "Nope I wont, and you know why? "

Then dont say All countries should be blame, if you cannot justify....be specific or you will be in trouble.

Yubaru is just wise enough to keep focus on this article.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

WTF.... during War, there will be always atrocities against women. Be Americans, Germans, Japanese, Italians, NKoreans, Communist Chinese, Russians and whoever. Men do not live by bread alone. They need sex. PERIOD.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Once again, they have time and again. You just choose not to see it. That's called having the blinders on. When it suits you, you take them off. When you don't like it, you put them on and deny everything under the sun and claim attack on culture, victimization, etc.

Smith. Upgrayedd is correct. Nobody has. If you like, you are more than welcome to provide one for us.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

So, STOP pointing fingers who did so and so. All of them did.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It's a shame, the US never apologised for the uncountable warcrimes they've admitted in Japan. Firebombings over Tokyo, Osaka, Kobe, Nagoya, Kagoshima, Fukuyama, Fukuyama, Yokohama, more than 60 cities! And now a stupid American guy comes and want's to blame Hashimoto, what is wrong with the Americans? And all these anti-japanese comments here, what do you think what the UK, the Dutch, French, Spain, American did before the Japanese? Did they ever offer apologies to the occupied countries for its colonialism, slavery, gross violations of human rights and crimes against humanity? Before you blame Japan, blame Australia, Belgium, France, UK, USA, Holland and so on, what they did was much more worse.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

there was a secret meeting in the UN recently the report on Japan at the UN Human rights Operational Protocol committee it mentioned the issue of comfort women as well as the situation concerning Fukushima and all sorts of Japan relevant stuff May 2013

http://ex-skf.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/us-state-departments-response-to-osaka.html#comment-form

the links to the Japan report, that concludes today!! can be found in the comments section of this post under the pseudonym anonymouse.. :) and the link is to an interesting blog www.nuclear-news.net (who are having a womens month) ps i am on topic this time admin ;)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Minami Tamiyo It's a shame, the US never apologised for the uncountable warcrimes they've admitted in Japan. Firebombings over Tokyo, Osaka, Kobe, Nagoya, Kagoshima, Fukuyama, Fukuyama, Yokohama, more than 60 cities! And now a stupid American guy comes and want's to blame Hashimoto, what is wrong with the Americans? And all these anti-japanese comments here, what do you think what the UK, the Dutch, French, Spain, American did before the Japanese? Did they ever offer apologies to the occupied countries for its colonialism, slavery, gross violations of human rights and crimes against humanity? Before you blame Japan, blame Australia, Belgium, France, UK, USA, Holland and so on, what they did was much more worse

Every time I study more about the Americans more disgusted I feel. They always play the good guy against bad guys. Obviously they are always the good guy. Disgust, disgust.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

They need sex. PERIOD.

No, they don't.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Open Minded: If Yubaru would like to focus on this topic, then don´t say all countries, just be specific which countries he meant.

Like, Hashimoto, one should be careful on the first statemets he/she would be saying

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Amazing..... the initial story was about Comfort Women with Korea and China complaining about Hashimoto's remarks. Then the guy goes out and verbally attacks Japan's staunchest ally saying that the USA is no better. This guy needs to take a Politics 101 Class... just the basics. Never argue a point or issue citing other examples by other countries to justify one's actions... especially when the other country is an ally. Hashimoto needs to think before he speaks but I wonder if his brain is capable of deep thought to begin with.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

chucky3176

You are missing the point. It is known that as a general rule, the (Korean, Japanese, Chinese,...) women were paid by the Japanese soldiers, too. (The only problem with them was that they could not freely choose from the customers coming in flocks. In other words, the quality of labor was low.)

Mayor Hashimoto's point was that you must admit that the U.S. soldiers needed women as the Japanese soldiers needed women and the commanders asked Japan (almost officially) to set up brothels.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I can not find USA ever had Comfort Women system as a country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I can not find USA ever had Comfort Women system as a country

Because at that time (WWII) and beyond, they used the local brothels in other countries. As a general rule, IJA prohibited their soldiers to use the local brothels or have sexual relations with local women.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Nigelboy: so, there is no record of US GVT operated Comfort Women System, Thanks for confirming my research.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

History repeats herself throughout the centuries, in that there has always been camp followers, whom have been paid to carry out a very profitable natural function. Be not naive or afraid, but the oldest or nearly occupation in the wold is what? Please, that ye visit the streets of Clark Base, Okinawa City, Sumvik Road Bankok, Hochiminlo, Newtown Circus, that to this very day offer up a panorama of ex-American occupation places to go for after battle relieve. HK and Korea have similar place to go, as does Tokyo and Osaka. Hashimotto maybe vocal in his well founded defence of what is true, but the Knights and I can only say that we have been there !

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't think people supporting Hashimoto's comments don't get it:

HASHIMOTO IS TRYING JUSTIFYING SEXUAL ASSAULTS. AN THE FACT REMAINS, ANY SEXUAL ASSAULTS WHETHER COMMITTED BY US GI'S OR JAPANESE SOLDIERS IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

http://nuclear-news.net/2013/05/17/japans-comfort-women-global-comments-at-the-un-14-march-2013/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CH3CHO, you can't be serious, are you claiming now that the sex slaves for the Japanese troops lived in luxury? It's obvious that article means hill of beans, since they're describing Japanese prostitutes who were hired to service the Japanese generals.

It's not an article. It's an official report from the U.S. army after the capture of certain IJA unit in Burma.

For the sake of argument, let's say they weren't forced or fraudulently lead to battlefield comfort stations. Let's say that for the sake of argument. So the next question is then, did these women who were hired as prostitutes, have the choice to quit after they arrived and saw the conditions? What happened to the women who refused to continue to do their work? Did they have the choice to say, I'm not doing this, I'm going home?

The same report states the following.

"In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea."

If the answers are no, then it's still forced prostitution or sexual slavery, even if they were prostitutes. Even in common laws of most civilized nations, it is still against the law to rape prostitutes. So the entire argument that it was OK, because these were paid women, just cannot be justified by using the line that they were professionals.

Same in Japan during that time. Rape is a crime.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

even in movies youu see the occupying force raping the girls. But. Hashimoto got it. He has become a trending topic

-7 ( +1 / -7 )

Did you ever wonder why the Japanese gov't after its surrender would "know" that their women will get raped?

Maybe because the Japanese soldier and civilian had committed so much rape and murder everywhere that it had invaded and occupied that it just simply developed the theory that others will do the same to its own women.

And the building of the whorehouses are not to protect "women", they were built to protect "certain" women. Those women that got sucked into the work, many were not paid according to what was promised. And many were misled into believing that it was proper work instead of being you know what for a living.

What that means is the Japanese gov't was so deplorable that it would sacrifice the "have-not" and threw them into the fire in order to protect the "haves".

Yes, rapes do happen, just like it continues to happen everyday in every country. But its the use of systematic rape as as a weapon that makes it so deplorable. Its about every soldier committing the same crime continuously without guilt or reprimand no mattered where it went. That doesn't make you human anymore, you're just an animal without boundaries.

After the surrender, the Japanese gov't facilitated the rapes against is own by misleading its own people into comforting the GIs. Many of the women thought they were getting jobs in the city as helps or factory workers but its not upon arrival that they knew they were going to be defiled. You meant to tell me that before the invasion, there weren't any Geisha or hookers in Japan? Why not just use them and setup your famous redlight district that appears everywhere ever since the EDO era.

Its not like you people don't have whorehouses before the occupation. Its your own atrocious behavior against others that frightened you so much that you thought others would've done the same to your women just the same way as what you did to others. THAT's the reason for all these domestic comfort houses. Your gov't got scared from its own rapes against others. Just how would you know that these redlight districts or whorehouses aren't enough? Seems to me, your gov't thought the American's behavior would be like yours. Well, you thought wrong. We still have a conscience. Or otherwise there wouldn't be so many interracial marriages after the war.

All these talks are just pointless. Your gov't's reaction was the exact proof of its atrocious and deplorable past.

And All you sympathizers are defending the actions by saying pot met kettle. How ironic. How pathetic.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

There are abuses in any war. There are those who would say that war itself is an abuse. But there are countries that make a formal process of abuse crimes versus countries whose soldiers commit crimes. In WWII Germany and Japan were in the former catagory. It wasn't necessary. It was, in the case of Japan, nihon vs. gaijin; men superior to women, women as chattel to be abused whenever.

The other issue is that what any other country did does not justify what Japan did. The Holocaust in Germany and slavery in the US does not absolve Japan.

The only good thing about the discussion is that it puts a light on the cockroaches so that you can watch them scurry back under the fridge. And then call pest control.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

He was not justifying his comment, more that pointing out the hypocracy of the US in the face of thier own similiar actions during that period. You may not like the man, but American troops did rape Japanese women and were not held accountable for it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Hashimoto and the extreme right wing will lead Japan into international isolation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cecil John HowellMAY. 18, 2013 - 02:41AM JST He was not justifying his comment, more that pointing out the hypocracy of the US in the face of thier own similiar actions during that period. You may not like the man, but American troops did rape Japanese women and were not held accountable for it.

Nor was Japan held accountable for the institutionalized rape of 200,000 women by the Japanese Imperial Army.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This guy just doesn't get it, Japan had a state sanctioned system of abduction and sex slavery, the Americans had nothing of the kind during the occupation of Japan, and neither have any other army in modern history as far as we know. He needs to resign and go back to being a blood sucking lawyer.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

bannedactssam "international isolation" Yeah cause United States will always be the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

kiyoshiMukaiMAY. 18, 2013 - 03:06AM JST bannedactssam "international isolation" Yeah cause United States will always be the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

I have to disagree. US, China, and South Korea are major players in the International Community. Moreover, Hashimoto's comments regarding comfort women has received international coverage and including CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/world/asia/japan-hashimoto-comfort-women/index.html?iref=allsearch http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/16/opinion/japan-wartime-past-nationalism-kingston/index.html?iref=allsearch

0 ( +1 / -1 )

He's not wrong. The U.S. occupying forces DID commit a ton of offenses against Japanese women - so much so that JAPAN set up U.S. servicemen-only brothels seeing as they were not allowed to officially accuse even buck privates of committing crimes. To the best of my knowledge, the girls in those (and most of the "comfort women") were already prostitutes when they were pressed into service.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

banneddactsam. that part of the news covering "Hashimoto says USA raped Japanese women"wont be part of the news n CNN

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ bannedacctsam, you are right, but that was not Hashimotos point, nor was it mine.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ahhhh, the old 2 wrongs make a right argument.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hashimoto, a typical Japanese!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Obviously, Hashimoto is a product of the Japanese educational system which Korea and China decry. Court records of the Tokyo Tribunal have references to "Comfort Women" and there are no good estimates on the number since the Japanese Government did as much as possible to burn records or war crimes especially any that link the Emperor. But there are surviving records that do implicate the Japanese Government all the way to the top involving war crimes. The issue of "comfort women" and Japan is not limited to the past. Today, Japan is considered the largest market for Asian women trafficked for sex. You can look this up.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Isn't Hashimoto great? He has got all this conversation started up, even brought some American skeletons out of the closet and in all this some people may even have read some history, instead of believing that Japanese soldiers rounded up 200,000 women in trucks.

Thank you kyou1

“It is a historical fact that the comfort station system was used during the Korean War and the Vietnam War,” he tweeted. He gave no details of this claim and did not say which side’s soldiers used the brothels.

Is "claim" an appropriate word? Adverts for "comfort women" (慰安婦), almost identical to those used by the Japanese government during WWII, were on the front pages of Korean newspapers in the 1960's. See this one for "UN 慰安婦"

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tonchamon/imgs/0/0/00840c95.jpg

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

As is the case, since there exists very little records to verify the 200,000 number," it must have been destroyed " argument. Sigh.

This the problem with these academics, namely Yoshimi, who first establishes a high number, then look for evidences to support it. When this fails, he makes a similar argument in that he claims there are still unresearched documents in the archives. This is what he did with "forced" argument as well in expanding the meaning to include those individuals, whom due to economic hardship, became a comfort woman.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Person A: Sometimes rape is necessary.

Person B: That's an outrageous thing to say!

Person A: Oh like you don't have rape in your country.

Person B is talking about the insensitivity of the comment about rape, not that rape exists only in Person A's country. Hopefully that clears it up for some people.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I suggested to discuss Comfort Women and Hashimoto so I am not going to write about USA situtions. Is Hashiimoto trying to destroy Ishin-noKai? Ishin-no-kai sure have no problem to be vanished very soon.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

, then don´t say all countries, just be specific which countries he meant.

If you understand English, and last time I checked this board is in English, you would understand the meaning of what I wrote.

I only reply here out of courtesy to your numerous posts about this and add, you seem to me to be like so many others and focus only on one word or phrase and fail to look at the bigger picture. You nit-pick about one point. Like I've said before, you only see one tree, when there is a forest right before your eyes!

Have a nice day...over and out!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Let me restate that Hashimoto is arguing off the point and throwing a red herring into the discussion. Whatever US GIs did here does not justify Japanese sexual slavery. Period.

This said, let me supplement what I said about American G.I. running amok during the Occupation. According to various sources here is what happened. There were massive rapes of Japanese women by US soldiers. This was largely covered up thanks to the draconian censorship of the MacArthur regime. There were only 6 known courts-martial. Notes author Terese Svoboda: "Although both white and black soldiers were convicted of rape in both theaters during the war, only black servicemen were executed for this crime." <http://teresesvoboda.com/blackglasseslikeclarkkent/papers/rape-Ottawa-legal.pdf >

There was apparent concern by the top brass but no great interest in stopping the mass rapes.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"But he did it, too!" didn't work as an excuse when I was a child and it doesn't work for Hashimoto.

It doesn't matter what country you're from or whether or not you're in the military. Rape is rape. It's reprehensible, vile, and evil, no matter who you are or where you're from.

Hashimoto's attempts to try and justify his comments continue to expose his incredibly misogynistic views. He believes that men can't control their urges and that women are nothing more than objects for men's pleasure.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Person A: Sometimes rape is necessary.

Hashimoto NEVER said rape is necessary. He believes that the comfort women system was a commercial system designed in part to prevent rape.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

bannedacctsam

You are utterly wrong; more exactly, you are distorting the facts. Mayor Hashimoto is simply trying to compare the Japanese system during WWII and the counterpart of the U.S. for the soldiers who want girls. Prostitution is basically nothing to do with sexual assault.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

There was Comfort Woman system then. Don't stereotype all Japanese are shy and nice, therefore military did not have such system. There are many people who studied abroad and none of them are shy. Girlls knew Japan had Joshi Teishin Tai drafting. It was when females were less creature than people. The Wikiipedia is not perfect but it explain well. Also, there are many Japanese who came to USA to study in Univ, too, I did not major English but there are many who have PhD and teach in Univ. Anyway, distorting and denying history do not help Japan at all.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

nigelboy

You should realize that prostitution is born from poverty. In my opinion: Prostitutes are hired by private companies, and it is very likely that, in the contract, they could borrow money for their families (fathers & mothers) to live on. They could earn money depending on the number of men they accepted, and be released from the "job" if certain conditions are met.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

issa1: none of these cities requested for apology. It was scary to learn other cities got air raid. Fortunately, Our city people only had to hide in Bokugo ( air raid avoidance tunnel in the garden of each house. It was War rime. Differebt countries have different attitudes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

it's as if the war wasnt decided, and it is still going on the way everybody talks

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

do you think this is a battle between european and american ethics on japanese soil--wonder if hashimoto has touched down yet.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

toshiko

nigelboy

These two are good points. The discussion should start from here.

I admit that the tactics of the U.S. (using local brothels in other countries) appears politically much smarter than the counterpart of Japan (comfort women system recruiting women from foreign countries).

Then: Is the use of local brothels in "other countries" an ethically ideal system? assuming that they recruit women from foreign countries? assuming that the U.S. commanders pressured (in the back) the countries, which were in a vulnerable position, to set up the brothels?

Note: Assume that your answer to Mayor Hashimoto. Since his comments are often mistranslated, stick to the above point.

Note: From the well-known fact that the U.S. soldiers openly used Japanese prostitutes after WWII, I do not believe in the "prohibition" as you claim (at least around that time).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think many posters have totally missed the salient point here.

This issue is not about Japan, its certainly not about the US, and its only tangentially related to the Comfort Women issue.

This issue is about Hashimoto and and how he views women - and that view is clearly that women are not equal to men, should be subservient, and are nothing more than sexual objects to be used.......

Women in Japan, and really throughout the world, should be horribly offended by these remarks - and any man with an ounce of compassion, and any respect for human rights, should be just as offended.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Exactly, lincolnman. Ignore the comfort women for a moment and just look at what he's saying in general—men can't control their urges and women are nothing more than objects for men's sexual gratification. It's misogynistic crap.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japanese people and the Japan apologists stop making excuses already... lol. It's rather sad to read those comments.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Yesterday's newspaper had one large article. LA Times. Sexual misconducts are normal life among GIs. 6 % of female soldiers encountered sexual assault last year. Top officer whose duty is to curtaul sexual offence was arrested by local police by attacking a civilian lady. Then a master sgt is under investigation because h made subordinate to prostitution, etc. He worked as a pimp, it said. Today;s LA times stated more cases, cover up by generals, etc in 1991 at Hilton in Las Vegas. Hilton was sued and lost. 1991. An Admirall said these female pilots and soldiers are More stories. Journalist concluded that things changed, Ingo-go dancers, topless dancers or hookers to Assst. Navy Secretary who investigated and investigated. Instead Sof luxury hotels (where the pilot was gang raped attendong pilot meeting), more private places and in record numbers. Since then Hilton ownership changed a few times. It is LVH now. However USA never had Fovt operated Comfort women system, It is a unique system of Japan. USA? each GI operate on their own. Pentagon is too busy to media questions now, /Orval office? Too busy with IRS and other problems that One comment to condomn and that is all. Hashimot story, not mentioned at all. Just UN will dig.

t

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It is friggin amazing. Every time Hashimoto opens his mouth, he makes it worse. Unbelievable guy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

House artreides:

" So is prostitution the solution to sexual abuse? I think not. "

Actually, yes it is. But the ianfu system was not "prostitution", it was government-organized gang rape. Don´t fall into Hashimotos trap by obfuscating the two.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Upgraded:

" t's not comparable in any way. Have you read a complete translation of what he actually said or do you know enough Japanese to understand the original? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMjVAaZBb0Y "

I listened to the Japanese clip, and I do not see how that excuses Hashimoto. He continues to defend the "ianfu system" and declares that it is different from rape.

Hashimoto is a disgusting moron.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

KappNets2May. 18, 2013 - 10:33AM JST

You should realize that prostitution is born from poverty.

That's bull, look at Japan

1 ( +1 / -0 )

KappNets2:

" Prostitution is basically nothing to do with sexual assault. "

Yes. And the Ianfu System was government-organized sexual assault. That is why Hashimoto should not get away with mislabelling it as "prostitution".

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Well this has certainly turned into a very lively debate hasn't it lol. Although I don't know what's better JT or CNN. Check out this link!!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/world/asia/japan-hashimoto-comfort-women/index.html#comment-900936922

There are several points I would like to touch on. Some of which have been covered some not so much. I find it odd why no one has mentioned China's involvement in all of this. After all they are the one's which first told the US should be concerned with Japan's nationalism. China is trying to drive a wedge between US Japan relations by trying to make US pick sides between Japan or Korea. Something of which the US can't do without angering one side or the other. Both are extremely important allies and US is being put into a very uneasy position of which China will no doubt try to exploit. The emphasis on the Ryukyu Kingdom as once being China's vassal state may enhance worries of some other countries which were also ancient China's vassal states at some point under the tributary system.

Thus it may boost the sense of a threat from China among some of it's neighboring countries. More importantly, using the Ryukyu sovereignty issue to resolve the Diaoyu dispute will make the latter more complicated, and help the Japanese right-wingers gain more support. According to a recent Asahi Shimbun survey, about 54% of voters are opposed to the ruling LDP's proposal to ease the requirement for initiating constitutional revisions, with a similar number opposed to amending the war-renouncing Article 9. However China's tit-for-tat strategy is absolutely correct. Japanese politicians are becoming more unpredictable & dangerous. Which are creating an unnecessary problem for US. Not withstanding the consistent visits to the Yasukuni Shrine & Abe's hawkish postures aren't helping maters any.

Hashimoto has only made the situation worse by his outrageous outbursts which only gives China more fuel. Yet if Chinese officials openly support Ryukyuan independence, it might push more middle voters to Abe. Once Abe and his LDP win the Upper House election in July, Abe will undoubtedly further promote constitution revision. My guess is that China might stand together with South Korea to try and convince the US that a reviving militant Japan will inevitably harm US interests in the region and push Washington to keep Japan in check. Guys please let's try to be civil here. This is what China wants and right now they are succeeding in that effort. Attacking each other and throwing insults isn't going to accomplish anything. We need to work together to keep the Chinese parasite from infiltrating our defenses. Just a different observation is all not hating or anything. :)

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@chucky3176

"I don't see anything wrong with American soldiers having sex with paid Japanese prostitutes who offered their services after Japan's defeat in a war that they started. I'm not sure why the Japanese think they were rapes. There were no rapes, they were all paid prostitutes."

That's same logic that Japan is using for "comfort women", except "the war they started" part. and you just wrote this yourself in other comment: "So the entire argument that it was OK, because these were paid women, just cannot be justified by using the line that they were professionals."

See the contradiction?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Even if there is no hard evidence that comfort women were drafted by Japanese military's order (meaning some of them might be forced but it was not governmental order, it was done by individuals), Japanese authorities still have responsibility for not preventing it. They were their men after all.

"We are sorry that it happened, but it wasn't governmental order so we had nothing to do with it" kind of attitude is not acceptable.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Most of the commenters who against Mayor Hashimoto, dont understand what he meant or don't see the fact and just respond whatever superficial things emotionally or hypocritically because what he is saying is reasonable enough.

This is the original dialogue of Mayor Hashimoto regarding this issue.(Japanese) http://synodos.jp/politics/3894

Here is the understandable youtube about one of the fact of comfort woman.(English) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijYLNvUPU_A

hope understand better with neutral perspective.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

PM Tomiichi Murayama not only issued a written apology to every comfort women survivor but also started the Asian Women's Fund for Comfort Women. There's also an online site called the "Digital Museum, The Comfort Women's Issues and the Asian Fund".

The views expressed in this museum were all formulated on the responsibility of the Asian Women's Fund. http://www.awf.or.jp/e-guidemap.htm

There's too many quotes to be able to list them but if anyone thinks that all the comfort women were voluntary legal prostitutes, were all well treated, were able to return home if they wanted, or those who believe the Imperialist Military wasn't involved in both the procurement of women and how the 400 brothels were run across Asia, then go and visit this site.

According to this site, the procured women for the brothels were suppose to be a minimum age of 21, and with previous experience of prostitution. That probably happened with the procurement of Japanese women. The war progress and spread, and orders from the military were sent to procure women from Korea, China, Taiwan and other countries.

Since there wasn't enough women from the prostitution business, women and young girls from poorer families were also taken. The minimum of 21 was also ignored and in some cases girls were only 16 and 17 years. Even as young as 12 years according to some reports.

The Imperial Military was involved in every stage from procurement, to issuing military travel documents and how the brothels were run. The Imperialist Military used agents to procure the women but they selected those and decided how much to pay them.

The Korean Comfort Women were enticed in a variety of ways and there are clear evidences that some were told lies about what their work would be. It is recognized that those recruiters often resorted to coaxing and intimidating those women to be recruited against their own will, and there were even cases where administrative/ military personel directly took part in the recruitments.

It appears that the women and girls were not clearly told they would be required to serve as comfort women.

The comfort women in the military brothels were not treated very well and in some cases didn't receive payment.

Digital Museum-The comfort Women Issue http://www.awf.or.jp/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

gas07lisa;

" That's same logic that Japan is using for "comfort women", except "the war they started" part. and you just wrote this yourself in other comment: "So the entire argument that it was OK, because these were paid women, just cannot be justified by using the line that they were professionals. "

No it is not the same. The difference is not about "who started the war" but about who "trafficked women against their will". And only the Japanese government is guilty of that.

If there is one good thing about Hashimotos flap it is that a lot of these false arguments are now discussed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@WilliB

No because Japanese government denies there were any orders to force women to be comfort women, it was done individually, so that logic. Whether it is true or not, that's the logic they use now. and in the other comment, chucky wrote even if those women weren't forced and they were paid prostitutions, it still doesn't justify. so I was pointing out the contradiction.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Most of the commenters who against Mayor Hashimoto, dont understand what he meant or don't see the fact and just respond whatever superficial things emotionally or hypocritically because what he is saying is reasonable enough.

No, we do understand it. You're pettifogging. Hashimoto is saying that men can't control themselves and need outlets for those sexual frustrations. He's perpetuating a culture of misogyny and by extension, perpetuating an environment that enables rape and sexual slavery to continue to thrive.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"modzMay. 17, 2013 - 09:48PM JST

Maybe a good start would be to stop using the euphemism "comfort women" and start calling them what they were -- rape victims."

Or prostitutes, which is what they were and are called in every other country in the world.

-2 ( +2 / -3 )

The better questions are "what percentage of comfort women did the job by force" and "were they getting paid and how much" and did the sytem decrease rape of local women"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

HASHIMOTO IS TRYING JUSTIFYING SEXUAL ASSAULTS. AN THE FACT REMAINS, ANY SEXUAL ASSAULTS WHETHER COMMITTED BY US GI'S OR JAPANESE SOLDIERS IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE.

No he is not. In fact he said rather plainly that it was deplorable that ANYONE got raped. And that Japan had every reason to apologize to the victims (as they have done time and time again). I can't see how so many people missed that section of his comments ... its almost like they are willfully ignoring it.

What he is trying to say is the following;

Not all the women in the WW2 sex trade were forced. Some were.

Of those that were, many were forced by entities other than the Japanese military - including some of the very entities now complaining about Japan's conduct.

Finally, he attempts to point out that as the loser in the war Japan gets to accept the definitions of the court for things like "aggressor", "war criminal" and "comfort woman". As such, I think he pretty much admitted that a certain number of women (likely some number far less than the upper threshold figure of 200K when one allows for those driven to the work by economic hardship or recruited/bought outright by "agents" among their own countrymen) were forced into sexual servitude by the Japanese military.

Today he added that there sure are a lot of people living in glass houses with a penchant for rock throwing.

Fair comments all.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Zichi

You're not even reading (or can't read) the archived documents in the site that you linked to.

If you do, most of them were legal prostitues hundreds of documenation with age verification for passports, pay scales, reports of medical checkups, requests for additional supplies (condomns), operating hours, requests to go home, etc. Having skimmed through the entire volume of documents (which you haven't), I venture to say that 99% of documents presented on the site you linked to are of regulation and compliance nature.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Kappnets2

the counterpart of Japan (comfort women system recruiting women from foreign countries).

That's not what I said. The comfort women system recruited women from Japan, Korea, and Taiwan which the latter two were part of Japan at that time. And hence, as a general rule, the recruitment by IJA in other occupied territories were discouraged or even outright banned.

The reason behind this, as some of AWF's documents sites, is that the local brothels of the occupied territories were unchecked for there were cases of underaged girls, girls recruited illegally, not medically checked for VD, or the threat of espinoage.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@Nigelboy,

You're not even reading (or can't read) the archived documents in the site that you linked to.

I guess you haven't even bothered to visit the website set up by the Asian Women's Fund because if you had you wouldn't have made your comment. Today, I read every single page and linked document which are available in both Japanese and English, and the AWF have provided English translations of documents for those who need it.

I found it very interesting and factual, and since it involved PM Tomiichi Murayama, and the AWF, the facts must be accurate, unlike many of your own comments.

So before you start with your personal insults, you can go and read everything on the AWF site, then come back and tell me about what they have published there.

Digital Museum-The comfort Women Issue http://www.awf.or.jp/

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Zichi,

I have, on previous occasions, posted the links and summarized my findings.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/quote-of-the-day/view/there-is-no-evidence-that-people-called-comfort-women-were-taken-away-by-force-or-threat-by-the-japanese-military-if-three-is-such-evidence-south-korea-should-provide-it

@Aug. 24, 2012 - 10:06AM JST

The archived documents in the below link.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/document.html

Today, I read every single page and linked document which are available in both Japanese and English, and the AWF have provided English translations of documents for those who need it.

Perhaps you could provide the link of the English translated material of the above.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@Nigelboy

The views expressed in this museum were all formulated on the responsibility of the Asian Women's Fund. http://www.awf.or.jp/e-guidemap.htm

Women supplied to the military brothels were suppose to be a minimum age of 21, and already prostitutes. Since there wasn't enough of these kind of women, women from poorer families were taken. They were enticed in a variety of ways and there are clear evidences that some were told lies about what their work would be. It is recognized that those recruiters often resorted to coaxing and intimidating those women to be recruited against their own will, and there were even cases where administrative/ military personel directly took part in the recruitments. Many of the Korean women were under the age of 21, some no more than 16 or 17 and had no previous experience with prostitution. http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-05.html

In another document we find that a Korean couple, operating a restaurant in Seoul, were contacted by the military police headquarters. They agreed to take on the job of gathering women and girls and recruited 20 Koreans. With the payment of 300-1000 yen in the currency of that time to their parents, the couple believed that they bought these girls and that they became the couple's own property. This could be considered as the advance payment by which these girls were bound. According to information given by the women and girls, at the time of recruitment, twelve of the twenty recruits were under 21 years of age — one was 17, three were 18, seven were 19, one was 20, and eight were 23 or older. If this information is correct, it would seem to be clear that the conditions stipulated by the Police Bureau, Home Ministry in 1938 for recruitment in Japan were ignored. It appears that the women and girls were not clearly told they would be required to serve as comfort women. In such cases the agents tricked them, basically recruiting them against their will. http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-05.html

A 14 January 1942 reply from the Minister of Foreign Affairs contained the following sentence: "Because it would not be advisable to issue passports to such types of people going abroad, they should be issued military certificates and transported on ships commissioned by the military."

It is well known that in Indonesia some Dutch women internees were taken to comfort stations. According to Dutch government's report, one third, or one fifth of them were coerced into becoming comfort women. The case at Semarang was tried in a war crime tribunal and a Japanese officer was executed. http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-06.html

Comfort Stations were regularly managed by civilian proprietors, but the military always closely and directly controlled various aspects of comfort stations' activities. http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-09.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Is that it Zichi? I took the time to go through all 5 volumes but you, on the other hand, chose the highlighted version selected by AWF which only indicates that there or there may have existed some operators that may have recruited women under false pretenses. Secondly, the Dutch case is well known and is often repeated as some but what you fail to understand that the operation was immediately shutdown when the Superior officer found about the operation further supporting the fact that IJA did not condone such actions.

And yes. Military had closely and directly controlled these stations acitivities for their control is based on adhrence of regulations and compliance which most of the 99% of the 5 volumes indicate.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Nigelboy,

if you have any problems with the information provided on the AWF site, you need to take it up with them directly, and not me.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

if you have any problems with the information provided on the AWF site, you need to take it up with them directly, and not me.

I don't have a problem with AWF's publishing 5 volumes worth of archived documents which mostly consists of evidence that the Japanese government and the IJA were involved in regulation and compliance to prevent wrong doings. What I do have a problem though is you proclaiming that you read them when in fact, you just read the translated version of the documents that AWF selected which is in no way, shape, or form the overall context of the 5 volumes.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Nigelboy, in your words, "Having skimmed through the entire volume of documents (which you haven't), "

I have already informed you that I read everything on the AWF website.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I have already informed you that I read everything on the AWF website.

Except the 5 volumes here.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/document.html

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

I agree with Hashimoto. Japan did similar things but Hashimoto was absoloutely right to point out that America did these things to the women of Okinawa! I can't believe it. Looking at all the comments on here at the outraged Americans. "Let's all criticise Japan! We are America! The Heroes! We didn't commit any war crimes! We always respected and never discomforted the women and people of Okinawa!" "Japan did it so we're allowed too as well!"

The acts of America and Americans do make my blood boil. Take some criticism! The truth does hurt, but you must live with it.

They are whining at mr Hashimoto for a simple reason. They angered that Japan is becoming free from the US- imposed political influence . This is a good sign. I believe someday Japan will wake up and clean a japanese territory off american invaders, kicking them back to their side of Pacific.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

nigelboy and zichi, you are just going around in circles. Please move on.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nigelboy, Your personal insults are too much. I can read and write in Japanese. When I'm not sure of something, I just ask my Japanese wife to explain it to me. I provided the info in English because probably the majority of readers and posters on this forum can not, but I also suggested that because there's a lot of information people who are interested should visit the AWF site and read it for themselves, which is available in Japanese and English. This is an England language based forum, and the majority of people using it don't even live in the country.

No one doubts that troops of the Allied Forces used local brothels but unlike the Imperialist Military they didn't organize and run them. They didn't force women to become prostitutes.

Moderator: Sorry, but we asked you and nigelboy to move on.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They are whining at mr Hashimoto for a simple reason. They angered that Japan is becoming free from the US- imposed political influence . This is a good sign. I believe someday Japan will wake up and clean a japanese territory off american invaders, kicking them back to their side of Pacific.

No, we're angered that people like Hashimoto, Ishihara and others are trying to rewrite history and take Japan on a backwards path to the road of imperialistic nationalism, which was what led to the Pacific War in the first place. These are dangerous, evil men who care nothing about the rights of other people. They have proven that already, such as when Ishihara wanted to round up foreigners in the event of a natural disaster or when Hashimoto said that public servants shouldn't expect any rights.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This guy will be yesterday's news soon enough.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

claiming American troops abused Japanese women during their seven-year occupation.

First of all... Hate to break this news to you, "Well America Did It Too" People...

There's TWO very big differences between any abuse, rapes, murders ect... that may have happened during occupation....

1) Yes, there were CRIMES committed by U.S. Forces...! And when people were caught they went to jail.... I'll say this again... It was a CRIME!!! It wasn't condoned by anyone, ad definitely NOT Sanctioned by the U.S. Government nor the Military! BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

2) Scale... If you add up all the murders, rapes, robberies, All Crime committed by U.S. forces ever in Japan.. Doesn't add up to 1/1000th of what happened in 1 month in Nanking in 1937....

As in Algebra, You CANNOT Compare Apples and Oranges...

This is the Japanese Schoolboys typical Response when confronted with irrefutable evidence of Japanese War Crimes, "Well America Did It Too...."

Sorry to burst your bubble... NO America NEVER did anything like Japan did, NOT even close...

You want to compare and contrast atrocities, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, use Nazi Germany, although Japan would still be a distant 2nd...

0 ( +2 / -3 )

... NO America NEVER did anything like Japan did, NOT even close...

Chinese Sai Lor, you should read a history book. Even some vary simple, for school students. An article about nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for instance....

-3 ( +1 / -3 )

No, we're angered that people like Hashimoto, Ishihara and others are trying to rewrite history and take Japan on a backwards path to the road of imperialistic nationalism, which was what led to the Pacific War in the first place. These are dangerous, evil men who care nothing about the rights of other people.

The fact that they express their opinions which are different than your expectations, does not mean that they are "dangerous people" or " they are trying to rewrite history".

-2 ( +1 / -2 )

this thread shows the futility of trying to argue with Japanophiles and self-loathing westerners when it comes to anything negative about Japan.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It's true. It did happen. You'd have to be mighty naive to think it didn't. It was wartime/occupation time. Still doesn't justify this and every other idiot with foot in mouth who holds office. I cannot believe that they just constantly did these holes for themselves. Are they aiming to piss everyone off and re-isolate this country? Grrrrrr

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He is not justifying what Japan did. He is one of the most misunderstood guy in Japan now.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Zomafumi - hashimoto IS justifying Japan's well documented sex slavery by creating a myth that every other country has done so. He is a scumbag X2

6 ( +6 / -0 )

claiming American troops abused Japanese women during their seven-year occupation.

Ok, Let's Muddy the Waters...

First of all... Hate to break this news to you, "Well America Did It Too" People...

There's TWO very big differences between any abuse, rapes, murders ect... that may have happened during occupation....

1) Yes, there were CRIMES committed by U.S. Forces...! And when people were caught they went to jail.... I'll say this again... It was a CRIME!!! It wasn't condoned by anyone, and Definitely NOT Sanctioned by the U.S. Government nor the Military! BIG DIFFERENCE!!! The Japanese Military Gave the Green Light, to Not only Rape, but dispose (I.E... Kill) of any victims afterwards, so it could not be reported!

2) Scale... If you add up all the murders, rapes, robberies, All Crime committed by U.S. forces ever in Japan.. Doesn't add up to 1/100th of what happened in 1 month in Nanking in 1937....

As in Algebra, You CANNOT Compare Apples and Oranges...

This is the Japanese Schoolboys typical Response when confronted with irrefutable evidence of Japanese War Crimes, "Well America Did It Too...."

Sorry to burst your bubble... NO America NEVER did anything like Japan did, NOT even close...

You want to compare and contrast atrocities, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, use Nazi Germany, although Nazi Germany would still be a distant 2nd compared to what Japan did...

MAY. 19, 2013 - 09:40AM JST

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well said Chin4sailor, you speak for almost everyone in your comment.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

At First I support Hashimoto becuse he tried to defend USMC's camp in okinawa from minority Anti-america leftist's brame.

But now I really regret that I defend him at initial stage---This stupid Guy is spoiling US-Japan alliance now! Its really awful

I hate Connunist but I hate Facist too!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

hoserfellaMay. 19, 2013 - 03:10PM JST Zomafumi - hashimoto IS justifying Japan's well documented sex slavery by creating a myth that every other country has done so. He is a scumbag X2

At least he clearly admitted Japan is guilty for using comfort women system. He meant that it was thought to be "necessary" at that time, but he denied the acceptability of comfort women under the ethics of today . He suggested the need for reconsidering the sexual crime at military related circumstance. Infringement of human right of women were happened at everywhere on Earth, and it's still been happening. That's why everyone should reconsider the past instead of accusing only Japan. I don't think that Hashimoto's opinion about this issue is wrong.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Zomafumi - no one has said only Japanese soldiers raped during the war. But ONLY Japan had a govt run program to force women from conquered nations to b raped over and over again by its soldiers. Not even Russia, whose soldiers raped women all over Germany, had such a brutal program. This is what you and Hashimoto fail to understand. What other country openly supported the rape of women? None.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@hoserfella

What other country openly supported the rape of women? None.

Korean comfort women of Korean war. It's nothing to do with my opinion anyway. I answer this just because I was asked.

I think you are confusing the meaning of acceptability and necessity. As I wrote, he clearly admitted that Japan is guilty for using comfort women system and I agree with it. It's not acceptable under ethics of today, but it's obvious that there were need for outlet of sexual desire. This issue has not resolved and that's why sexual crime rate aroud the U.S. military base in Japan.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

correction

This issue has not resolved and that's why sexual crime rate aroud the U.S. military base in Japan.

This issue has not resolved and that's why sexual crime rate aroud the U.S. military base in Japan is high.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

re-correction

This issue has not resolved and that's why sexual crime rate aroud the U.S. military base in Japan. This issue has not resolved and that's why sexual crime rate aroud the U.S. military base in Japan is high.

This issue has not BEEN resolved and that's why sexual crime rate around the U.S. military base in Japan is high.*

Sorry for my clumsy English.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

zomafumi:

" It's not acceptable under ethics of today, but it's obvious that there were need for outlet of sexual desire. "

Oh give us a break already with the "sexual desire" of Imperal Japan`s apparently oversexed troops. Their "sexual desire" is NOT the issue. Nobody cares if they frequent local brothels, or make each other happy, Spartan-style, or whatever.

The issue is the trafficking of women against their will. What is so hard for Hashimoto and his supporters to understand that??

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@WilliB You are confusing the topic about the statement of Hashimoto and general argument about comfort women. If you can't agree to his statement about it's problem, then please point it out specifically. As I wrote, he clearly admitted that Japan is guilty for using comfort women system and I agree with it.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@WilliB Correction

If you can't agree to his statement about it's problem, then please point it out specifically.

If you can't agree to his statement AND it's problem, then please point it out specifically.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

He did a mistake and now he is trying to involve more countries to correct the problem...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

zomafumi:

" You are confusing the topic about the statement of Hashimoto and general argument about comfort women. "

No I do not. I have also listened to Hashimoto`s statement in the original japanese. The only confusion is on the side of Hashimoto and his supporters. He (and his supporters) continue to confuse the issues of sex trafficking and prostitution. They are different issues.

Hashimoto is an embarrassment to Japan and an embarrassment to Osaka. One thing is for sure: The Chinese government must be happy seeing this guy trying his best to destroy all sympathy for Japan.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

zomafumi - read this statement from the above story again. It is clear you are ignoring it;

There is no mainstream evidence that modern militaries other than Japan’s have employed a formal sex slavery system.

its quite clear that you and a few others on this thread refuse to acknowledge the truth..

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@WilliB

If you understand Japanese language, please specifically quote the sentence from his remarks about comfort women which you think is problem. Please make your opinion about his statement clear with referring first information source, instead of claiming only accordance with your imagination.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

zomafumi:

" If you understand Japanese language, please specifically quote the sentence from his remarks about comfort women which you think is problem "

Every sentence in his statement is the problem. Same as with your comment. You, like Hashimoto, try to obfuscate the issue of slavery with the issue of supposed sexual needs for Japan`s troops.

The more Hashimoto says (and the more you post), the worse it looks. It like Hashimoto and you keep digging yourselfes into an ever bigger hole.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@hoserfellaMay

There is no mainstream evidence that modern militaries other than Japan’s have employed a formal sex slavery system. its quite clear that you and a few others on this thread refuse to acknowledge the truth..

I don't understand why you are sticking with it. Hashimoto disagrees to use comfort women as outlet of sexual desire, and so do I. He clearly denied the acceptability to run comfort station.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@WilliB

Every sentence in his statement is the problem. Same as with your comment.

My comment to you will keep being same as previous one till you make your opinion clear and concrete with referring first information souce.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

zomafumi:

" I don't understand why you are sticking with it. Hashimoto disagrees to use comfort women as outlet of sexual desire, and so do I. He clearly denied the acceptability to run comfort station. "

But he did not stop there!! He continued by relativising the "ianfu seido" by discussing the imagined sexual needs of Japanese troops, and by claiming other militaries where doing the same. And in doing that, he invalidated his own supposed condemnation of the "ianfu system". Basically, he turned around and belittled what had happened.

Is it really so hard for you to see what is offensive about that?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@WilliB I will continuously cut and paste this comment till you make your opinion clear and concrete with REFERRING FIRST INFORMATION SOURCE. This thread is about the statement of Hashimoto concerning to comfort women issue, which you can fully check in Japanese. Please clearly point out what do you think is problem about his statement.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

zomafumi:

" will continuously cut and paste this comment till you make your opinion clear and concrete with REFERRING FIRST INFORMATION SOURCE "

I did. Apparently, like Hashimoto, you are unwilling to listen and to re-think.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@WilliB

I did. I don't think so. You just wrote your interpretation about his statement instead of citing his remark. I will continuously cut and paste this comment till you make your opinion clear and concrete with REFERRING FIRST INFORMATION SOURCE. This thread is about the statement of Hashimoto concerning to comfort women issue, which you can fully check in Japanese. Please clearly point out what do you think is problem about his statement.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

This issue is about Hashimoto and and how he views women - and that view is clearly that women are not equal to men, should be subservient, and are nothing more than sexual objects to be used.......

Women in Japan, and really throughout the world, should be horribly offended by these remarks - and any man with an ounce of compassion, and any respect for human rights, should be just as offended.

So if this is about Hashimoto and how he views women, then perhaps those who are arguing his words could answer whether the women should have been used as soldiers or should have been at home safe and sound? When you consider this side to those who state Hashimoto is incompassionate, you can understand that this talk then isnt about his view on women but rather about international relations. Those who argue the women were abused, I wonder what do you think these women should have been doing instead, just quietly going off to uni and ignoring the war? I dont think Hashimoto is denying it happened, so what would have been the non-offensive position that these women should have been in?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

" This issue is about Hashimoto and and how he views women - and that view is clearly that women are not equal to men, should be subservient, and are nothing more than sexual objects to be used.......

Women in Japan, and really throughout the world, should be horribly offended by these remarks - and any man with an ounce of compassion, and any respect for human rights, should be just as offended"

This is the quoted part.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's enough bickering. Zomafumi and WilliB, please do not address each other any further on this thread.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@illsayit

Excuse me but it's difficult for me to see where is the quoted part and where was the sentence quoted (or translated) from.

and that view is clearly that women are not equal to men

I would like to ask you to make it clear which statement of him treats women unequally.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I can't believe he's still being taken seriously.

He needs to hire a translator and go to US and properly debate with the Americans. Let's see how far he will go with the "you guys did it too!" kindergartener excuse. He has no idea how to DEBATE! But then again, neither do most Japanese.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Illsayit:

" I dont think Hashimoto is denying it happened, so what would have been the non-offensive position that these women should have been in? "

Err... in whatever position they were before the Imperial Japanese armee recruiters either deceived them into signing the ianfu contracts under false pretenses, or outright kidnapped them. Wouldn´t you you say so?

Or was that a trick question?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It is a misnomer to say that women were recruited ! They were forcibly taken from their respective homes,relocated and raped-200,000 of them.

Hashimoto has dug a deep pit for himself.....he still hasn't hit bottom!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I found this regarding U.S. Soldiers and rape in Europe during the war: "Records of courts-martial show that between 1942 and 1946, 458 American soldiers were convicted of rape in the European Theater of Operations." While rape, unfortunately did occur of course, and these numbers probably did not come close to the un-reported incidents... at least, even during the war, the U.S. Military and Government was doing something to try to prevent it. I wonder how many Japanese soldiers were convicted of Rape in their war years?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A Realist and zomafumi, hope you get your stomachs disemboweled. c u nt..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Later in he month, May 27 I thiink, Hashimoto will address the Foreign Correspendents Club to explain what he's talking but yesterday he accused the foreign meda of a massive disreporting of all his statements and twisting his truth? I don't think he needs the foreign media to twist the truth when he does it better himself.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Foreign media always tells half-truth. They will never say the part where Hashimoto says U.S troops abused Japanese women.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

interesting the amount of newly JT-registered Hashimoto apologists on this site recently. Not so interesting however, the weakness of their 'logic' and arguments. Hashimoto for whatever reason has decided that the atrocious acts of forced sexual slavery perpetrated by the Japanese army were okay. The less dense amongst us realise this is mostly just pandering to the low-life, right-wing m.orons that sadly seem to make up a fair proportion of Japan's politically vocal population.

It is sad that so many posters above feel the need to 'explain just what Hashimoto was "really" trying to say'; or obfuscate matters by insisting that foreign press (ahh those pesky foreigners again eh what, what?) 1). are to blame, or 2). just can't understand "unique Japan's" (laugh) perspective.

The Japanese army and it's government were complicit in the systematic rape and sexual slavery of hundreds of thousands of women - their is NO Justification for that. I for one will not take seriously anyone who attempts to argue otherwise as they are clearly either an agitator or a m.oron.

Doubtless when we defeated Japan and graciously occupied, stablised and sorted out its mess for her there were doubtless unsavoury incidents by occupying soldier. The difference is that those incidents were understood to wrong by all involved and would have resulted in an appropriate court martial or arrest when thy came to light.

Not that I care to know much more about Hashimoto - he's actually not that interesting a human being all said... I wonder if he has daughters, sisters a living Mother? i wonder what they think of all this. Do you think any of his family would enlist in a 'comfort women' programme today? How about the female family members of some of his supporters in this post?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Who voted this boy mayor? A sad reflection of japanese society.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Didn't HASHImoto have an affair with some "snack hostess" awhile back? Well it's evident he supports use of the japan sex industry if it's good enough for him... I see a lot of apologizing in his future but doubt it will change anything.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

hoserfella

But ONLY Japan had a govt run program to force women from conquered nations to b raped over and over again by its soldiers.

You are making up thinkgs in your head. Just read this US army report in 1944. < http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html>

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

CH3CHO - thanks for the report. It sums up nicely the fact that the overwhelming majority of the sex slaves were forced into it on false pretenses by the Japanese Army. Did you have some sort of point to make?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@CH3CHO

Instead of just providing the same repeated link a million times go and read what's on the site provided by the Asian Women's Fund, there's plenty of information that contradicts what's in the link you have given. http://www.awf.or.jp/e-guidemap.htm

5 ( +5 / -0 )

i wouldn't be surprised if hashimoto was right. its a fact of war. just harder to cover up now a days with the internet. figures that the japanese would systemize it though...in a way, i wonder if it was better for the subjugated population in general? less random rapes and violence since its systemized.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@CH3CHO

Why did the American's equally cover up the Unit 731 and give immunity from prosecution to its commander and many of its members?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Fds - makes good sense to you to kidnap then repeatedly rape girls till death, does it? Do you really imagine Japanese soldiers didn't feel the need to rape with "comfort stations" around? Look up the word "Nanking" on google and ask the women there how pleasant the troops were.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

kiyoshiMukai:

" Foreign media always tells half-truth. They will never say the part where Hashimoto says U.S troops abused Japanese women. "

Actually, they did. Hashimotos outrageous statements were quite correctly translated. You can not hide behind the "mistranslation" excuse here.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Checks out, the world's favourite encyclopedia indicates that it did indeed happen :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Comfort_women

1 ( +2 / -1 )

hoserfella, do you understand that rapes and prostitution are different?

But ONLY Japan had a govt run program to force women from conquered nations to b raped over and over again by its soldiers.

Do you understand that rapes and prostitution are different?

On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

Soldiers 10 AM to 5 PM 1.50 yen 20 to 30 minutes

NCOs 5 PM to 9 PM 3.00 yen 30 to 40 minutes

Officers 9 PM to 12 PM 5.00 yen 30 to 40 minutes

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk.

zichi

Instead of just providing the same repeated link a million times go and read what's on the site provided by the Asian Women's Fund

Thank you, zichi. I read the AWF materials years ago, including the documents written in Japanese. However, I think only few people have time and interest in reading the good materials at AWF. So, I recommend people reading the US Army report first, which is just a couple of pages long. Then, as you recommend, they should read the materials at AWF if interested. What I think quite regrettable is that news writers do not read these materials before writing articles. They definitely should. http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

CH3CHO:

You keep posting the same link point to a US armee report. Have you actually read it? Here is what your link says:

"Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy."

Well, visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making soldiers happy" does not sound to me like working a bonded prostitute. Does it to you?

And that is the crux of matter. If the Japanese recruiters had gone out with an honest description of the work in question, do you think they would have found 200,000 willing takers?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

WilliB, yes, I have read it. Now, compare with the AFP article.

Up to 200,000 “comfort women” from Korea, China, the Philippines and elsewhere were forcibly drafted into brothels catering to the Japanese military during WWII, according to many mainstream historians.

Do you see anything that implies focibly drafted?

As to the number of comfort women, look at this summary of various estimations by historians. http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-07.html

This is how they estimate. There were 3,000,000 Japanese soldiers, ASSUMING 1 comfort woman for every 30 soldiers, and ASSUMING replacement multiplier of 2 and you get 3,000,000 1/30 2 = 200,000. You can get any number by changing the assumption. As comfort women testify, a comfort woman had 30 customers a day, just 100,000 comfort women can entertain the entire army of 3,000,000 everyday. I think the estimate is unrealistic. Let truth be the guiding light. I do not see any truth in 200,000.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

seem like the guy find hard to tell them and say sorry to two lady....wow bit unfair.....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CH3CHO - You keep clinging to that sorry little interrogation report of 22 people which STILL exposes how women were lured away from their homes by lies of other work. Whether these 20 women were actually paid or not has no bearing on the countless thousands that were rounded up like cattle and forced into sex slavery.

If you are Japanese, it might be interesting to look at Germany, their full admission of guilt in the holocaust, and their great relations with former enemies today. Thats what an adult does.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

CH3CHO

so you agree that some of the comfort women were sex slaves, you just disagree about the numbers of them?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

"The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women." PM Junichiro Koizumi, 2001.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@CH3CHO

There are many concerns with the US military report on comfort women which you have linked many times.

The interrogation of 20 Korean comfort women took place at the Ledo Stockade in Northern India, and these women were prisoners in the stockade.

The officiers who carried out the interrogations had never visited the places were the women were kept in the Burmese military brothels.

The recruiting of Korean women to Burma wasn't suppose to be for them to become prostitutes.

According to rules set by the Imperial Military, recruited women were suppose to be over 21 years and have previous experience of prostitution, which was the case with the Japanese women used, but not with Korean women and other nationalities too. Girls has young as 16 and 17 were spent to work in the military brothels.

One of the comfort women interrogated at the Ledo Stockade was called Kim and was age 19 at the time of the report. Three were 20, and a further 7 were just 21. The oldest was 31.

The report states "On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty" so in fact none of the recruited women knew they would become prostitutes, and if that was done against their will, then they were sex slaves even if paid.

The money only received about 40% of the money paid for their services, with 60% going to the brothel pimps.

The report also states "In Myitkina their food was prepared by and purchased from the "house master" as they received no regular ration from the Japanese Army." So the food they received and the amount fed was at the decision of the house pimp.

The women were recruited in Korea, given military transport documents and transported to Burma on Imperial military ships along with other Imperialist troops.

The Ledo Stockade was known for its brutality, so why did the Americans put the comfort women there.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@zichi

so you agree that some of the comfort women were sex slaves, you just disagree about the numbers of them?

Exactly. Everyone agrees that some of the women were forced and abused daily against their will. Mr Hashimoto agrees with that, and said so during his interview. The comments by the Japan haters and communist apologists on this site are just an attempt to make it seem like nobody agrees with what you posted. When in reality everyone recognizes it to be true.

Now was it 200000 or 20000? And are we going to blame everyone involved (including the brokers and agents who sold many of these young women down the river for cash) for the crimes or just the convenient scapegoats? These are the only questions remaining.

All posters pretending that Mr Hashimoto condoned or denied the fact that women were used a sex slaves by the Japanese military are being dishonest. At this point one has to question their motivation for repeatedly posting falsehoods.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

hoserfella,

Whether these 20 women were actually paid or not has no bearing on the countless thousands that were rounded up like cattle and forced into sex slavery.

Why do not we agree that truth be the bases of the argument? Can you bring anything that supports your argument? I suggest AWF is a good place for you to visit.

zichi

so you agree that some of the comfort women were sex slaves, you just disagree about the numbers of them?

That depends on how you define a "sex slave". If you define a prostitute on debt bondage as a sex slave, then they were. What I find funny is how Americans translate the Japanese word "ianfu", which means a prostitute. First, US intelligence officers translated it as "a comfort girl". Then, they changed to "a comfort woman", probably because calling an adult woman as a girl is politically incorrect. Now, they translate the same word as "a sex slave". Call a spade a spade. "Ianfu" is a prostitute in the past, now and in the future.

The concerns you raised are all valid. Keep digging. But did you find that Japanese army "drafted" comfort women?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

All posters pretending that Mr Hashimoto condoned or denied the fact that women were used a sex slaves by the Japanese military are being dishonest. At this point one has to question their motivation for repeatedly posting falsehoods.

Hidingout - That so? lets look at the original news story from a few days ago:

Outspoken Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto on Monday said that comfort women—a euphemism for sex slaves—used by the Japanese imperial army before and during World War II were necessary for the wellbeing of troops.

Speaking at a news conference, Hashimoto said that the women were needed to provide “the brave frontline troops with rest and relaxation,” TBS reported. He said the system was also important for maintaining discipline and that other countries used similar systems during wartime.

That, my little friend, is called condoning.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That, my little friend, is called condoning.

No it is not. It is called recognizing the historical context. It was an attempt to explain how something so terrible could happen with government sanction. War (the stated purpose of which is to kill as many of the enemy as possible) allows for people do outrageous things and feel justified in doing so at the time.

Furthermore he clearly said that the military was wrong to behave like unprincipled brutes and that an apology was absolutely in order. It beggars belief that you can still be here, three days after those comments were broadcast, airing your tired little version of what he said. Like I said above, your motivation has to be called into question at this point.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@CH3CHO

That depends on how you define a "sex slave". If you define a prostitute on debt bondage as a sex slave, then they were. What I find funny is how Americans translate the Japanese word "ianfu", which means a prostitute. First, US intelligence officers translated it as "a comfort girl". Then, they changed to "a comfort woman", probably because calling an adult woman as a girl is politically incorrect. Now, they translate the same word as "a sex slave". Call a spade a spade. "Ianfu" is a prostitute in the past, now and in the future.

Its very clear. A prostitute is a woman who sells her body for sex in return for payment. It appears on paper at least, that all the Japanese comfort women met with that description. They were also a minimum age of 21, and most of them had experience with prostitution.

But with the non Japanese women, the evidence is very different. A sex slave is a woman who unwillingly is forced or tricked in some way in to becoming a prostitute without her being able to refuse once she discovered her reality on arrival at the military brothels.

The American document you have linked to so many times, clearly states what you seem to refuse to accept.

Early in May of 1942, Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. Approximately 800 of these girls were recruited in this manner and they landed with their Japanese "house master."

It does not state that these Korean women were told that they would become prostitutes and once they arrived at the brothels were no longer in a position to refuse. Since they lacked passports and money how could they refuse, leave and return to their countries?

They had travelled on military document since the military banned them from having passports issued. They had also travelled on military ships with Japanese troops.

Many of the Korean women didn't meet the requirement of the minimum age of 21, and 3 of the 20 women at the Ledo Stockade were under 21 at the time of their interrogation, so were much younger when first taken to Burma.

The fact that the Japanese called them "lanfu" or prostitute does not change the fact based on evidence that most of the non Japanese women were not willing prostitutes.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@CH3CHO, so its clear that you not only disagree with the numbers of comfort women but also that any of them were sex slaves because they had all agreed to become one, even though both the written evidence and the testimonies prove otherwise.

But did you find that Japanese army "drafted" comfort women?

Yes, because there's written evidence showing that the Imperial Military in occupied countries like Burma sent procurement orders to the Imperial Military in Korea requesting they procure "X" number of women for their brothels. The Imperial Military appointed the agents to find and recruit the women. The Military didn't check that the Korean women met the minimum standards. The Imperial Military issued the women with transport documents and transported them to places like Burma on their own ships. The Imperial Military set up the brothels and decided who were the pimps. They also set the standards for the brothels. Army doctors examined the women for STD's. Even the brothel Japanese "house-masters" or pimps were appointed by the Imperial Military and travelled with the women to set up and run the brothels solely for use by the military. The Imperial Military were involved every step of the way.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Those who refer to AWF's site and conclude that IJA recruited these women have NOT read the entire 5 volumes of the archived documents for IJA role was to regulate and make sure these operators were complying with those regulations.

As to Zichi's last comment, the idea that operators were chosen after they were transported overseas is completely false for the general rule was that it was the operators who recruited them and subsequently applied to the Japanese government to be attached to certain military unit overseas. As the U.S. report in Burma indicates (this is also in the AWF archived documents), it clearly indicates these women were able to return to Korea once the debt has been repayed.

If the criticism is solely based on the fact that Japanese government was "involved" in regulating them, what does it say about the Allied's usage of the brothels in occupied area and in the battle field especially in SE Asia? Who reguated them? Who made sure that these girls working in these brothels were not underaged? Who made sure that these women who worked in the brothels were not forcibly abducted? Were they even regulated? Did the Allieds even care where they come from?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Report from the UN Commission on Human Rights 1998 "Appendix: An analysis of the legal liability of the Government of Japan for 'comfort women stations' established during the Second World War": p. 38-62.

**It is now clear that both the Japanese Government and military were directly involved in the establishment of rape centres throughout Asia during the Second World War. The women who were enslaved by the Japanese military in these centres - many of whom were between the ages of 11 and 20 - were housed in locations throughout Japanese-controlled Asia, where they were forcibly raped multiple times on a daily basis and subjected to severe physical abuse and exposed to sexually transmitted diseases.

**the women, many of whom were still children at the time, were in fact enslaved in rape centres either directly by the Japanese military or with the full knowledge and support of the Japanese military.

The resolution was endorsed by a majority in favor on Aug. 27 at the 51st session of the *UN Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights held in Geneva from Aug. 2 to 27.

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/h0056.pdf

5 ( +5 / -0 )

As to Zichi's last comment, the idea that operators were chosen after they were transported overseas is completely false for the general rule was that it was the operators who recruited them and subsequently applied to the Japanese government to be attached to certain military unit overseas.

The Japanese "house-masters" or pimps were selected in the country of origin, like, Korea. They procured the women for the military brothels and travelled with the women on the same military ships, the difference was the Japanese pimps had their passports, while the women were only issued with one way military transport documents. The Japanese pimps and their women set up the military brothels when they arrived at their destinations.

If the women could to leave the brothels they would have needed permission of the Japanese pimp, transport documents from the Imperial Military, and secure passage on a military ship back to the country of their origin.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In the US document about the interrogation of 20 Korean women at the Ledo Stockade, it states,

"In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea."

Certain girls (probably the ones with constant STD's) were allowed to return to Korea but the only evidence the US would have would be from what the 20 women prisoners had stated.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Japanese "house-masters" or pimps were selected in the country of origin, like, Korea. They procured the women for the military brothels and travelled with the women on the same military ships, the difference was the Japanese pimps had their passports, while the women were only issued with one way military transport documents. The Japanese pimps and their women set up the military brothels when they arrived at their destinations.

And most of them were Korean as well recruited in Korea. The issuance was ”渡航許可” for both the operator and the women. This is CLEARLY indicated in the archived documents.

If the women could to leave the brothels they would have needed permission of the Japanese pimp, transport documents from the Imperial Military, and secure passage on a military ship back to the country of their origin.

Once the debt was paid, they were returned as the U.S. report indicates.

"In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea."

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

UN Commission on Human Rights 1998 "Appendix: An analysis of the legal liability of the Government of Japan for 'comfort women stations' established during the Second World War": p. 38-62.

Yes. McDougal report. Even Professor Yoshimi, in which you like to quote, argued the merits of the content in 1999 when McDougal made an appearance in Japan.

Yoshimi states,

Over 200K. "Even my estimation is between 50K-max 200K depending on the ratio."

Most of them were of Korean decent. "There is no firm evidence to back this up."

Only 25% survived. " There is no evidence to back this up."

As young as 11. Based on the evidence, there was a case of one girl at the age of 14. One could argue that the majority of them were aged 21 under.

Professor Yoshimi's notion is that it does not help the issue by propagadizing unverifiable information for it discredits scholars like him who are still working to finding out the truth.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I must admit, I was both surprised and shocked when I read the UN document on Human Rights with pages 38-62 devoted to the Japanese comfort women. The document was accepted in full by the UN and endorsed by a majority.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So this thread is still going, huh? I hope you all realize that one persistent commenter here (I won't say who) pretty much feels about imperial Japan the way some whites in the American South feel about the Confederacy--you know, "Lost Cause" and moral equivalency nonsense, e.g. General Sherman was just as bad as the most sadistic slave-owner in Georgia, or the Americans and the British were just as brutal as the Japanese. There's no point in debating somebody who feels that way.

And I know the believers in Japan's "Lost Cause" will immediately object to this comparison on the grounds that chattel slavery was never practiced in occupied Korea or any other Japanese colonial holdings (this is true, I will concede that), but their sentiments are disturbingly similar, i.e. arguing time and again that, in the context of the times, the imperial Japanese regime wasn't so bad compared to its contemporaries. Confederacy sympathizers in the USA say the same exact types of things, except they rationalize 19th century chattel slavery rather than early 20th century colonialism.

This "Lost Cause" moral equivalency nonsense regarding pre-1945 Japan will never gain traction outside of Japan. This is, after all, a regime that signed a tripartite pact with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in 1936, and which then attempted to become the hegemonic power in Asia without the full support or consent of Asians themselves (there were collaborators, of course, but most Asians wanted freedom, not domination by imperial Japan). Hashimoto and his supporters are unlikely to ever succeed in overturning the post-World War II consensus that imperial Japan was a bad regime (not only for other Asians, but for the Japanese themselves) which was eminently worth destroying.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Even though contrary to the evidence and testimonies, the deniers, which includes Hashimoto, claim,

*The numbers of the comfort women were in the tens of thousands, not the hundreds of thousands to provide their sexual services to 5.5 million Imperial Military troops.

*None of the comfort women were sex slaves. They all knew before being transported to various countries in Asia that they would work has paid prostitutes.

*All of the prostitutes were well treated and well paid in the brothels.

*The Japanese Imperial Military was not involved in setting up the brothels nor in procuring the women and girls to work in them. That was carried out by non Japanese agents.

*None of house masters, or pimps were Japanese. The setting up of the brothels was by none Japanese owners.

*When the troops were moved to the front line the owners of the brothels decided to move their brothels and their women and girls to the front lines too.

*None of the prostitutes were less than 21 years.

*All the prostitutes were free to leave their employment and brothel provided they repaid their debts to their pimps, and in any case it was a matter between the pimps and the women and girls, and the Imperial Military were not involved.

*If requested by the prostitutes, the Imperial Military would issue them with transport documents and arrange passage on military ships so that they could return home to their countries.

*None of the prostitutes suffered at the hands of their customers.

*None of the prostitutes were forced to have abortions because they were provided with contraceptives which at the time would have been condoms. At least 5.5 million condoms every month.

*The use of prostitutes was necessary to prevent the local women from being raped.

*When the Americans and Allied Forces liberated the prostitutes they found them in good health and well being.

*All other countries including the Americans and the Allied Forces also used prostitutes.

*Prostitution remains a world wide major South Korean industry, and today in Japan there are many South Korean prostitutes.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Professor Yoshimi on the comfort women issue in his book published in 1995.

“There cannot be women who chooses the road that become comfort woman if the way of a free career choice like the worker, the profession, and the independent enterprise, etc. is opened in front of the females. Even when they seem to choose that course of action by the free will, it is actually a result of some compulsion like colonialization, poverty, and unemployment, etc.”

When YoshimiI talks about the comfort women issue, He speaks the “Participation” of the Japanese Government and the Japanese army in the comfort women system. And, he speaks “Comfort women were compelled”. Of course, this means “Compulsion of the wide sense”. Moreover, he says so. “That is responsible in the Japanese Government and the Japanese army.” People who do not know the comfort women issue well misunderstand, "The Japanese Government and the Japanese army made young women by force comfort women”.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

zichi, calm down. You are starting a strawman argument.

As to the number of ianfu, any historian would agree that there is no concrete number.

I told you that it depends on the definition of a sex slave. In addition, a woman who is tricked into prostitution is a victim of a fraud but need not be a sex slave.

Who said, "all of the prostitutes were well treated "?

Look at the last 3 pages of this document. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_4.pdf There is a list of entire female POWs captured by the Allies summarized by country and occupation. The total is 829 consisting of 19 Koreans, 24 Taiwanees and 786 Japanese. Of the 19 Koreans 11 are comfort women. I wonder why there are so few Korean female POWs if there were more than 100,000 Korean ianfu.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

**"Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for “comfort service” in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. Approximately 800 of these girls were recruited in this manner and they landed with their Japanese “house master” at Rangoon around August 20th, 1942. The “house master,” i.e. the manager of this comfort station, was a Japanese man called Kitamura Eibun." page 42

**"When the girls were informed about te real nature of the work, it was quite natural for them to refuse to work as comfort women. Some demanded that the comfort station manager send them back home as the job they had been promised was found to be false. Typically the manager would inform them that the large advance payment made to their parents had to be paid back before they would be sent home. Even where no advance payment had been made, the manager would demand repayment of the cost of transporting them from their home to the locality of the comfort station, the cost of daily meals and clothes, plus interest on those costs. When they realised that they were trapped by this sort of "indentured system," it was too late to reverse the situation." page 50.

"Each comfort station was tightly controlled by the regional military headquarters." page 51 "Japan's Comfort Women:Sexual Slavery and Prostitution During World War II." Toshiyuki Tanaka. Published 2002.

Yuki Tanaka is a Professor at the Hiroshima Peace Institute, Hiroshima City University, Japan.

Photo of the 20 Korean Women interrogated by bilingual Japanese-American soldiers at the Ledo Stockade. http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/6wsitutagw1avuzo/images/62-ca94a33f73.jpg

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Mikihouse,

If your comments are truly accurate then you have a point to make.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

zichi,

When the girls were informed about te real nature of the work, it was quite natural for them to refuse to work as comfort women.

That is author's assumption. Why do not we go directly to the original material.

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf

Somehow, AWF put the US Army reports backwards. Read from page 196 to page 195. Also read from page 187 to page 164. They are good.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@CH3CHO,

In the months before the surrender of Japan, the Imperial Military destroyed a large volume of documents which could have been used in the investigations of war crimes. Documents were destroyed in Japan, and in occupied countries.

The Americans copied about 360,000 documents but only translated about 14,000 of them. They had no interest in the Nanking event, which happened before then joined the war. They weren't interested in the comfort women and for decades they covered up the Unit 731.

Today, many gov't and police documents remain sealed.

There is a list of entire female POWs captured by the Allies summarized by country and occupation. The total is 829 consisting of 19 Koreans, 24 Taiwanees and 786 Japanese. Of the 19 Koreans 11 are comfort women. I wonder why there are so few Korean female POWs if there were more than 100,000 Korean ianfu.

You pointed out that the Americans interrogated 20 Korean comfort women at the Ledo Stockade in Northern Indian.

How many comfort women would it take to service 5.5 million Imperial troops?

That is author's assumption. Why do not we go directly to the original material.

The author, Toshiyuki Tanaka is a respected professor and his book is based on more than his personal opinions. Its not one sided so I suggest you read it.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Another important read is

"Researching Japanese War Crimes Records" which isn't a one sided document.

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/japanese-war-crimes/introductory-essays.pdf

0 ( +1 / -1 )

zichi, where can I find new findings about comfort women in your link?

page 68.

The new IWG records will be least useful for researchers exploring the Japanese military's use of "comfort women" during the war. Other than a handful of documents that record individual accounts of Japanese troops kidnapping women and girls, none of the declassified materials contains any references to this issue.

page 77.

There is very little in the new OSS records relating to forced prostitution, with the exception of a few documents that report the kidnapping of women and girls.

However, one newly released document, a postwar interrogation report of a Japanese officer in Indochina, contains a brief mention that Japanese soldiers may have threatened local women if they did not agree to become prostitutes for Japanese staff officers.

Anything else?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It is very disappointing that what the "Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group" found in 2006 is much less than what AWF found from the US archive and published in 1998.

Ochlocracy is democracy spoiled by demagoguery.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I'm done with this post and have moved on!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

During the Vietnam War the US established official brothels where dozens of Vietnamese women lived and worked under the strict control of their ‘managers’. Many had been sold by impoverished families and high level US officers regulated the facilities. By the war’s end military demand had left the country with 300,000 to 500,000 prostitutes.

Thailand was ‘settled’ by the US military, driving the number of prostitutes from 20,000 to 400,000 between 1957 and 1964. Similar problems plagued the Philippines, where US troops have exploited women since the 19th century under a system of “strict surveillance… restriction, inspection, control and punishment. As recently as the 1990s, base-towns such as Olongappo could house up to 30,000 prostitutes apiece, some as young as 14.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

doh! every one knows that. ...oh seems they don't. .....maybe their school text books wernt good enough.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

ultradarkmelvin:

Where do you get those tales from? 2-channel? It will be quite a show if Hashimoto tries to pass off phantasy stories like that in today`s interview.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

WilliB

Where do you get those tales from? 2-channel?

http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/index.html

Do you for a second believe Americans are completely innocent angels and only that the Japanese were cruel barbarians? You need to stop reading American propaganda for some detox brainwashing.

Thailand was ‘settled’ by the US military, driving the number of prostitutes from 20,000 to 400,000 between 1957 and 1964. Similar problems plagued the Philippines, where US troops have exploited women since the 19th century under a system of “strict surveillance… restriction, inspection, control and punishment.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Japan forgets its place.

Japan lost the war.

Japan's current status is purely from Americans giving them free tech and the 100 of billions of gold Japan stole from its asian neighbors. Japan owes everything to Asia. Asia owes Japan nothing.

3.The allied powers never used civilian masses for sexual slavery.

If US was truly fair in its judgment, Japan would be in the same level of poverty as North Korea and on top of that they would be a divided country. Japan shouldn't be complaining.
-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Disregard the number system. Accidentally put 1 instead of 4. Epic fail on me.

Japan's history textbooks should be regulated by the Allies. It's clear Japan doesn't know its own history.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Oh, I am sure the Japanese know their own history, that is why they dispute it... But lets face it the Male Human Being is on the lowest rung of the ladder... they have been raping woman from day one, not all, but untold numbers have commited this crime.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

So how did Hashimoto do at the Foreign Correspondents Club? No report yet?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@CH3CHO

They definitely should. http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

Do you really believe this is an Authentic document..?

Be careful of what you find on the internet, if it looks too good to be true, odds are it isn't REAL...

You can find dozens, correction, thousands of shady web sites with purported, "Official" Documents, saying everything from Obama is a Nazi, to the Pope is closet homosexual.

Another thing, I haven't seen too many, 1940's era Documents, released under the "FOIA," in such Great, not great, "Perfect" condition, without one single word being redacted...? Wow...You've really stumbled onto quite a find... LOL...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

A 91 year old Japanese man named, Matsumoto Masayo gave an interview to Reuters reporters, telling of his experiences as a Japanese soldier in 1944. He witnessed Japanese troops going into villages to drag out young girls back to comfort stations to rape them. He says what Abe and his cronies are saying are bunch of crock, and Japan owes these women an apology.

http://news.donga.com/Main/3/all/20130524/55374106/1

But of course, testimonials like these will somehow be discredited in Japan as a ramblings of an old man. And the demand for "evidence" will continue in Japan.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/05/23/japan-comfort-women-brothels-idINDEE94M02A20130523

This is what this old Japanese man had to say regarding the comments made by Hashimoto.

"NO EXCUSE"

"It is not just Japan that did something wrong. But Japan also did something wrong ... Just because someone else is a thief, is it all right to be a thief? Because someone else kills people, is it all right to be a murderer? That is no excuse," Matsumoto said.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Do you really believe this is an Authentic document..?

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf

Around the middle but start from the bottom.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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