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To mask or not to mask? G20 gathers nations with divergent COVID rules

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The most strict masking people have been Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. They have all lead the planet since June in Covid cases.

3 ( +23 / -20 )

So 2021, it has no real importance now.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

In Japan, most people on the streets continue to wear face masks, despite the government advising that they can discontinue doing so outside.

In Japan most people are ignoring their government.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Nihon-jin are correct and ahead of the rest of the world as usual - the pandemic isn't over, keep masking up!

-30 ( +2 / -32 )

Nihon-jin are correct and ahead of the rest of the world as usual - the pandemic isn't over, keep masking up!

is that why there are more cases (based on population) in those countries than western countries?

-4 ( +19 / -23 )

Only Asian countries are keeping Covid rules.

Went overseas, completely mask free for the whole stay. Completely forgot about Covid. Wearing continuously a mask does not help as it reminds you a risk, for what is now a weak to mild virus for most.

7 ( +19 / -12 )

In Japan, most people on the streets continue to wear face masks, despite the government advising that they can discontinue doing so outside.

In Japan most people are ignoring their government.

Exactly.

is that why there are more cases (based on population) in those countries than western countries?

That is an excellent point. The reason that masks are not preventing infection in Japan (I can't speak for other asian nations) is that people are wearing the masks on their chins or just covering their mouths and not their noses. The masks are more of a conformity message and "Tatemae" gesture than a serious attempt to stem the flow of infection. And on top of that, more people here are reliant on public transport decreasing the ability to socially distance.

Only Asian countries are keeping Covid rules.

Yeah, and the funny thing is, when the citizens of these countries travel overseas, they completely ditch the masks.

-14 ( +10 / -24 )

In Japan, most people on the streets continue to wear face masks, despite the government advising that they can discontinue doing so outside.

In Japan most people are ignoring their government.

Because they have the right to do so,

Only Asian countries are keeping Covid rules.

And that is why Asia is much better shape than the west.

Yeah, and the funny thing is, when the citizens of these countries travel overseas, they completely ditch the masks.

Because they are following the local rules. In fact, many Asians wear masks in the west.

 

The quoted comments can best be described as the three stooges.

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

To mask or not to mask? G20 gathers nations with divergent COVID rules

One successful strategy used by Asian countries early in the pandemic was to wear masks, general public included, in contrast to mistaken advice from the WHO. Global medical experts advised wearing the masks and as a result people in Asian countries such as Singapore, Vietnam, China, and Japan incurred a lower rate of infections and covid related deaths compared to countries that followed the WHO agency's advice--which it finally corrected.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

3 ( +18 / -15 )

> In Japan most people are ignoring their government.

Because they have the right to do so,

And yet if WE do that you complain and say we are bad. Double standard

Only Asian countries are keeping Covid rules.

And that is why Asia is much better shape than the west.

NO IT IS NOT. You have a right to an opinion, but NOT to manufacture FACTS for your own agenda.

Yeah, and the funny thing is, when the citizens of these countries travel overseas, they completely ditch the masks.

Because they are following the local rules.

You just said above they have the right to ignore the rules

In fact, many Asians wear masks in the west.

 No they don't. Again, you have a right to your opinions but not to make up your own facts.

The quoted comments can best be described as the three stooges.

Your comments are just plain all over the place with no coherence or cohesion

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

We have progressed to the stage now that it should be based on individual choice. If you want to mask up do so if not don't but don't try to force people to conform to one myopic world view. If the masks and vaccinations work so well what do those who love them have to fear???

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Make it an option so we can see the faces of courage and vision.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

One successful strategy used by Asian countries early in the pandemic was to wear masks, general public included, in contrast to mistaken advice from the WHO

You have not yet produced any reference that would make the advice mistaken, it was the same as every other international health authority and based on the avaliable information at the time, it changed accordingly with new information.

So, in order to prove the advice of all those different organization (including for example Asian national authorities) can you finally produce that evidence you said you have? or are you going to just repeat this baseless claim instead?

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

If it wasn't about masks, it would be something else.

When people start realizing this, fear is replaced with outrage.

1 ( +13 / -12 )

The most strict masking people have been Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. They have all lead the planet since June in Covid cases."

Indeed.

Nihon-jin are correct and ahead of the rest of the world as usual - the pandemic isn't over, keep masking up!"

Yeah, that must be why Japan had the highest cases per capita during the whole summer. Japan ahead of the rest of the world? - lol..good one.. still living in the bubble era?

-2 ( +17 / -19 )

Went overseas, completely mask free for the whole stay. Completely forgot about Covid. Wearing continuously a mask does not help as it reminds you a risk, for what is now a weak to mild virus for most.

It also affects family relationships as well, my mother-in-law always treated me like a son, but sometimes I can't stand her coming over and going out with us anymore, she keeps pesting us to disinfect our hands everytime we enter/leave any place (including multiple stores in the same mall) and my son can't touch anything without her rushing to the rescue, so now every time she comes to Tokyo I do my best to limit our outings to just a few hours instead of the whole day like before as its really annoying and somewhat mental.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

The only think more tiring than mask rules are the people who obsess and rail about mask rules as if they were the apex of tyranny.

There is a lot more to be upset about in these 2020s.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

No masks for me !!!

7 ( +14 / -7 )

South Africa which has recorded the most coronavirus cases and deaths on the African continent

Of of 54 countries in Africa guess which one has the highest rate of mRNA vaccination.

This needs to be explained.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

It is ironic to hear that the killer shot has significantly slowed down the death rate.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Still needing masks and vaccines + boosters after more than two years because they are obviously so effective.

Yeah,right….

2 ( +12 / -10 )

All you need to know about masks is that the people who don them while telling us to wear them are the same ones who whip them straight off when the cameras are no longer running.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

It is incredible that after all we have learned and with hard stats as to efficacy of masks, this debate still rages. Covid really did cause some form of mental dysfunction in our leaders (and, by extension, many of our fellow humans).

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Of of 54 countries in Africa guess which one has the highest rate of mRNA vaccination.

This needs to be explained.

It should be expected that the countrie with more resources to keep track of infections is also the one with more resources to get their population vaccinated, no mystery here. Vaccines are related with lower rates of infection, not higher as you are suggesting.

Still needing masks and vaccines + boosters after more than two years because they are obviously so effective.

You mean instead of dying from the disease? that would be a yes.

All you need to know about masks is that the people who don them while telling us to wear them are the same ones who whip them straight off when the cameras are no longer running.

That does absolutely nothing to refute the evidence of their efficacy, if a doctor telling you to lose weight for your health is overweight does this makes the advice less true?

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

Leave up to the individual, why do we have to fight for something as stupid as someone wearing a mask, I personally hate them and never wear them, but I don't go and bother people who still wanna cling to them. As long as they don't bother me I don't care.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

People in Japan drive around on their own in their cars with masks on !!! LOL, Somebody please explain ??

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

All you need to know about masks is that the people who don them while telling us to wear them are the same ones who whip them straight off when the cameras are no longer running.

Yeah, we can see a recent cringe display of this by PM Trudeau:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCaSp1gvBjc&t=121s

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Yeah, we can see a recent cringe display of this by PM Trudeau:

Again, how does any individual conduct disproves the scientific evidence of the efficacy of masks?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Yeah, we can see a recent cringe display of this by PM Trudeau:

Again, how does any individual conduct disproves the scientific evidence of the efficacy of masks?

What?!!! I was responding to Algernon LaCroix on the masking of world leaders (i.e. the article), it has nothing to do with whatever you were commenting on, which I couldn't care less about...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What?!!! I was responding to Algernon LaCroix on the masking of world leaders 

Your quote explicitly says "All you need to know about masks..." clearly implying that this proves they are not a valid measure to decrease transmission.

But if you recognize that masks are actually very effective even if specific individuals fail to use them properly that is fine.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@Virusrex,

My point, and I believe that of Algernon, is that often those who are telling everyone to where the mask don't believe it themselves, they do not follow their own recommendations or orders. That applies to world leaders and health officials; e.g., a while back when Faucci was not practicing social distance and wasn't wearing a mask at the ball game.

As for actual effectiveness, the evidence shows that the masks most people wear have minimal effect.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

But if you recognize that masks are actually very effective even if specific individuals fail to use them properly that is fine.

Did you even watch the video Raw Beer linked to? I doubt it. Trudeau puts on a mask just before the camera shows a doctor supposedly giving him a covid booster in one arm and then a flu shot in the other. Since Trudeau is such a duplicitous liar, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that he got a saline shot for each. The needles did go in, as you can see the skin lift slightly as the needles are withdrawn.

But then as soon as he's finished with the injections, he stands up and the mask comes off (literally and figuratively) as he gives his spiel. Pure performance, but then he used to be a drama teacher.

I'm not sure if you fail to spot such blatant hypocrisy, or that you just ignore it to further your narrative. Trudeau is recommending (for now, but who knows what he'll do as the weather cools) people to mask up, while flagrantly ignoring his own advice. If the risk is so high, why not keep his on? After all, he'd have access to and advice from the best doctors in the land, right?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The reason that masks are not preventing infection in Japan (I can't speak for other asian nations) is that people are wearing the masks on their chins or just covering their mouths and not their noses. 

Not in my experience. The vast majority of people I see are wearing them over their mouths and noses.

No offense, but it sounds like you're offering a lame reason for pushing masking.

They're not working in Japan because ... they don't work. It's not because people are overwhelmingly wearing them improperly. Sorry, no offense, but that's just lame.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

@Hakman spot on !

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

My point, and I believe that of Algernon, is that often those who are telling everyone to where the mask don't believe it themselves

Which has no importance in respect to how effective they actually are, the same as an obese doctor do not make dietary advice to eat less carbohydrates less valid.

As long as the recommendation has a valid scientific basis that is the only important thing for listening to it or not, if other people disregard that advice it does not become an argument to say it is less valid.

As for actual effectiveness, the evidence shows that the masks most people wear have minimal effect.

No, it does not, that is just imaginary "evidence" that antiscientific groups like to repeat but can never support with actual valid references.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

We have progressed to the stage now that it should be based on individual choice

How unusually grown-up of you. You usually tell people to take them off with lots of exclamation marks.

Make it optional in public. Stop whining about people wearing or not wearing them. At the same time, if a business decides it wants masks to be worn on the premises, that’s their right. If you don’t like it, don’t throw a tantrum there and then. Instead, go home and spam social media and perhaps ‘influence’ people.

It’s the grown-up thing to do.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Did you even watch the video Raw Beer linked to?

How does the video refutes the argument that the only important thing to decide if masks are effective or not is the scientific evidence about it? does Trudeau presents new evidence in the video? does he refutes with logical arguments the scientific and medical consensus? obviously not. Therefore the argument holds.

Whatever you imagine could be possible or how everybody else would lie is the same, completely irrelevant, the evidence clearly points out the efficacy and safety of vaccines, masks, etc. So if your argument is that every single institution of the whole world is lying to push something dangerous to their own members, families and friends you are already recognizing you have no argument, that conspiracy theory is impossible to believe.

Again, whatever one single individual does has absolutely no importance against the evidence that clearly shows measures against covid are effective. You can criticize the person that is not following the recommendations if you want, but not the measures, because you don't have the evidence to do it.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

They're not working in Japan because ... they don't work.

According to the medical and scientific consensus they do work, to "prove" they are not working you would need to prove widespread adoption is not decreasing the number of cases, having thousands of cases is in no way proof that several times more could be detected without the masks.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

My point, and I believe that of Algernon, is that often those who are telling everyone to where the mask don't believe it themselves

Which has no importance in respect to how effective they actually are, the same as an obese doctor do not make dietary advice to eat less carbohydrates less valid.

Yes, I know, and I never claimed it did.

Just like how effective the masks are has no importance with respect to what leaders believe or how they behave...

As I said, I was responding to Algernon, not to you. This forum is not all about you...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Yes, I know, and I never claimed it did.

But the quoted text that you agreed with clearly insinuated it, you claimed afterwards that masks don't work, so it is not too long a stretch to see both things being related. Masks have been proved to work same vaccines and other measures. If you agree that the actions of any individual have no weight as proof of efficacy of any measure that is fine, as I already said.

Just like how effective the masks are has no importance with respect to what leaders believe or how they behave...

It could have, as long as a person is reasonable and understand how scientific evidence works then this evidence can be of importance when deciding what actions to take, this is desirable and good.

As I said, I was responding to Algernon, not to you. This forum is not all about you...

I never said it was, I replied because you agreed to a comment insinuating the actions of a person disproved the efficacy of masks, for the third time if you agree this is nonsense that is perfectly fine.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I remember when I first came to Japan back in 2015 and people were wearing masks, they said it stopped the spread of influenza. I checked through the evidence and no journal article or study proved that masks stopped the spread of influenza and flu viruses. In fact it was a pretty strong consensus that they were not effective at stopping transmission at all. Japan has had flu seasons and viruses since then and masks haven't done anything to stop them spreading except now the same stupidty has spread to the rest of the world.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I checked through the evidence and no journal article or study proved that masks stopped the spread of influenza and flu viruses. In fact it was a pretty strong consensus that they were not effective at stopping transmission at all. 

Check again, the evidence for the efficacy of masks preventing respiratory infections when used by asymptomatic people came up (and in multiple reports) during the pandemic, right now there is no room for doubt about this and the scientific consensus is that masks are very effective at importantly reducing transmission when used properly.

Japan has had flu seasons and viruses since then and masks haven't done anything to stop them spreading

Masking symptomatic people was not enough, because asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission is an important way of transmission, now check the last two influenza seasons in Japan, while people adopted the use of masks even if without showing any symptoms, it proves exactly the contrary to what you mistakenly believe.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Other G20 nations have varying measures in place and different social conventions for the coronavirus, which has so far infected 631 million people worldwide and killed nearly 6.6 million, though vaccines have significantly slowed the death rate.

But deaths after vaccines were introduced are a higher number than before the vaccines in places like the US.

As long as the recommendation has a valid scientific basis that is the only important thing for listening to it or not, if other people disregard that advice it does not become an argument to say it is less valid.

The WHO did not have any valid scientific basis for their advice for the general public to not wear masks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The WHO did not have any valid scientific basis for their advice for the general public to not wear masks.

Yes it had, evidence that clearly pointed to being effective when used dealing with symptomatic patients in hospitals for example, and no evidence to demonstrate the same for asymptomatic people in the general population, which is why it advised for masks to be prioritized where they had actual evidence of efficacy.

You have repeatedly claimed evidence before the pandemic contradicted this, but never have provided that supposed evidence. This clearly indicates it does not exists, so you claim can be demonstrated as wrong.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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