Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin shakes hands with Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida during their meeting at the Prime Minister's official residence in Tokyo on Wednesday. Photo: Franck Robichon/Pool via AP
politics

Finnish PM says joining NATO will strengthen security

69 Comments
By MARI YAMAGUCHI

Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said the possibility of her country joining NATO was for the security of its citizens and called for the international community to unite in stepping up sanctions against Russia during talks Wednesday in Japan.

Non-aligned Finland and Sweden are set to announce their positions on NATO membership this week in what could be a serious blow to Russia as its military struggles to make decisive gains in Ukraine.

“If Finland makes this historical step it is for the security of our own citizens," Marin told a news conference after holding talks with Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida. “Joining NATO will strengthen the whole international community that stands for common values.”

Marin said she and Kishida discussed “Russia's horrible aggression against Ukraine and its consequences.” She said that sanctions against Moscow need to cover energy, finance and transport sectors “more broadly than now.”

Kishida thanked Marin for traveling all the way from Helsinki while her government is deciding on NATO membership. He expressed Japan's eagerness to step up cooperation with Finland in responding to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and also in ensuring peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region where Japan is dealing with threats from North Korea and the rise of China's military power.

Kishida said he and Marin agreed to pursue tough sanctions against Moscow and provide utmost support for Ukraine. “Changes to the status quo by force are not permissible no matter where in the world,” he said.

Japan has quickly joined other industrialized and EU countries in imposing sanctions following Russia's invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24. There's growing fear in Tokyo that the war may embolden China to take more assertive military actions in the East and South China Seas, where Beijing's vast territorial claims have overlapped with those of its smaller neighbors.

Japan has frozen assets of Russian leaders, including President Vladimir Putin, and government officials and billionaires close to him as well as key banks, restricted trade and announced a decision to phase out imports of Russian coal and crude oil.

© Copyright 2022 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.

©2022 GPlusMedia Inc.


69 Comments
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Finnish PM says joining NATO

Joining NATO, so what Japan has to do with it?

1 ( +22 / -21 )

A friend is need in a friend in deed,the American are only thing that Russian fear,the US will do the bulk of any fighting,they should he made too pay a tax ,too the US Treasury for defense

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

sakurasukiToday  07:03 am JST

Finnish PM says joining NATO

Joining NATO, so what Japan has to do with it?

Google is your friend.

"NATO and Japan are committed to strengthening relations to address shared security challenges. The practical cooperation includes areas such as maritime security, cyber defence and non-proliferation. NATO and Japan have been engaged in dialogue and cooperation since initial contacts in the early 1990s."

16 ( +26 / -10 )

"Joining NATO will strengthen the whole international community".

Finland can do as they please but however her statement is quite simply obviously not correct.

Joining the NATO alliance will not strengthen the whole international community.

If the world did have an international community that shared and stood for common values then there wouldn't be any conflicts whatsoever.

Unfortunately the reality is the international community doesn't share the same values.

NATO has always seeked to change the status quo in other countries and regions as more of a military force that a humanitarian effort and continues to push its new world order agend .

NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries.

-17 ( +18 / -35 )

Kishida said he and Marin agreed to pursue tough sanctions against Moscow and provide utmost support for Ukraine. “Changes to the status quo by force are not permissible no matter where in the world,” he said.

What bold democratic leadership from Kishida as the living standards of a majority of Japanese slide ever downward.

He should look toward Finland's prioritization of the welfare and security of its own people, not just a small hereditary clique, as an example of maintaining a status quo.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries.

It seems like NATO welcome as many countries as possible in Europe, especially their neighbor is Russia.

11 ( +20 / -9 )

NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries.

Very true.

Long term, probably after I'm dead, I truly hope there aren't any needs for any countries to have any military beyond a small group that is controlled by the UN. The UN-Security Counsel could be 100% rotating without any permanent members too. It's a dream.

Even within our families, we each have slightly different morality and ethics.

If Finland decides to join NATO, the western Europeans will feel a little more secure, though Finland already trains with NATO for a few decades. I think since 1997.

I think it would be great if Russia tried to enter NATO. The day that happens, without any ulterior motives, will be the day that NATO isn't needed anymore.

Really it comes down to having democratic leaders with easy change of power post-election, and playing the international trade game using the same rules. Many are unwritten and difficult to verify for countries where almost anything can be called spying and end someone in jail.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

As long as they don't allow the population to decide via a referendum, it should be ok. I mean, ok insofar as joining but it will only have negative consequences for the security of Finland. And of course Finland directly participated in the invasion of the Soviet Union and siege of Leningrad.

-5 ( +12 / -17 )

Heh, Heh, Heh... Russia is scared.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

Heh, Heh, Heh... Russia is scared.

Heh, heh, heh... Yep, the mighty Finnish armies are coming for Russia!

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

Kjell, when was the last time a NATO nation was invaded by a non-NATO nation? It seems to me to be a pretty safe place to be.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries.

Very true - It isn’t welcome by those countries who have plans to attack & invade other countries

the American are only thing that Russian fear, the US will do the bulk of any fighting

not true ! Most European nations’ militaries are highly trained & would kick Russia’s butt without the US.

11 ( +21 / -10 )

NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries.

If the alternative to the international community is maintaining the West & westerrn supporting nations/US/NATO consortium , or a BRIC consortium led by Russia and perhaps China , at this point I think most people internationally would prefer that the West/US/NATO consortium continue to maintain their powers. Why are so many people born and raised in BRIC countries moving to the west and western supporting countries, and not another BRIC country? Over one billion people living in South Asia are currently suffering a heat wave (yes climate change deniers, of course there has always been hot weather in South Asia ) because of what many scientists have determined is man-made climate change, many people born and raised there will probably eventually try to move to another country. Many people living near warmongering Russia probably feel threatened that the Kremlin's armies may try to annex their nation, how many will want to move to away from their currently sovereign nations. Non-Russian useful parrots for Putin, how many of y'all are ready to shift to the Russian Federation, where climate change could make some areas more livable?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Good. To be perfectly honest, I was surprised that there are countries in the EU that are not NATO members.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

Heh, Heh, Heh... Russia is scared.

Look up a certain individual named Simo Hayha, and an incident known as the Winter War.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

When Greece attack Turkey,will NATO invade Greece,if you are an informed person,you would know the answer

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Finland under NATO would be another big setback for Putin and Z-cult members who have demanded neutrality (means full submission?) from Russia's immediate neighbors.

Long term, probably after I'm dead, I truly hope there aren't any needs for any countries to have any military beyond a small group that is controlled by the UN. The UN-Security Counsel could be 100% rotating without any permanent members too. It's a dream.

I assume that the expansion of NATO will replace the role of UNSC in the long run, and the collective security framework will be more common. The loner Russia, China, and perhaps India, each of whom don't want military allies, may dread the new world order.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Heh, heh, heh... Yep, the mighty Finnish armies are coming for Russia!

Given the beating the Ukrainians are giving them, and also the losses the Fins themselves inflicted on the Russians the last time they attacked Finland....yeah, if I was a Russian soldier I would not be keen on messing with any "mighty Finnish armies" at all.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Unless they are here asking about how to get 100percent off Russian imports and crure oil, they need go back to Europe and hide. Joining NATO for them the s pointless

https://yle.fi/news/3-12435684

Any country not completely dedicated to ending Russian imports, is outright supporting Russia and and thier invasion of Ukraine. That's just the way of the beast.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Smart move by Finland and Sweden when they join NATO. It is every sovereign nations right to join collective self-defense pacts - and in this case extremely wise.

What you gonna do now, shakin' Putin?

3 ( +12 / -9 )

When you think of the money wasted on armies the mind boggles at the despair created. If used for the good of humanity instead of it's destruction we would be living in a utopia! But no...greed and power rule the roost!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

The options seem to be, join NATO and have some sense of security, or don't join NATO and just hope Russia or whoever leave you alone.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

I guess Kishida is in charge of who joins?

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

@sakurasuki

So what Japan has to do with it ?

Japan may not be an official member of NATO due to it's so called pacifist constitution ,but however Japan is considered part of the extended family of NATO due to it's security agreement with the USA.

That's why.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Finland should join NATO!!!

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Joining NATO will strengthen the whole international community that stands for common values.”

which countries represent 'the whole international community ' and what are their common values? I wish she'd explain. Russia and NATO used to go hand in hand

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

NATO bombed Serbia

non NATO country for what reason ?

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

@OssanAmericaToday  07:16 am JST

sakurasukiToday  07:03 am JST

Finnish PM says joining NATO

Joining NATO, so what Japan has to do with it?

Google is your friend.

*"NATO and Japan are committed to strengthening relations to address shared security challenges. The practical cooperation includes areas such as maritime security, cyber defence and non-proliferation. NATO and Japan have been engaged in dialogue and cooperation since initial contacts in the early 1990s."*

While you are correct, the fact remains that neither Japan (which is only "cooperating" with NATO) nor Finland (which is in the process of joining NATO but hasn't applied yet) are members of the organization, hence the pertinence of sakurasuki's question.

Essentially, the article is only about international co-operation against Russian aggression being appealed by non-members Finland and Japan (kudos to them) while their (Finland's) dealings with NATO are just additional information.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Join NATO , good

Russia will instal missiles near border , just installing , doing absolutely nothing ,

then Finland will do the same with nuclear ones .

I wonder Finland still in peace or in fear with anxiety and anxiety attacks daily .

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Good. To be perfectly honest, I was surprised that there are countries in the EU that are not NATO members.

It did not come out of thin air. There is a historical background to that. For example after the Second World War, Finland signed a treaty of peace with the Soviet Union which by the way had resulted in pushing out German forces out of Finland. In the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance established by the Soviet Union, Finland promised to adhere to neutrality unless the country itself was attacked. This resulted in a strong, openly neutral Finnish standpoint in foreign and security policy. The treaty was cancelled in 1992 and replaced with a new, more liberal treaty on friendly relations. Sweden had similarly historic reasons to adhere to a neutrality standpoint.

That’s why Finland or Sweden joining NATO, which is demanded by irresponsible and clueless politicians, is an unnecessary and dangerous provocation of Russia. Sweden and Finland can continue their policies of close partnerships with NATO without applying for membership.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

@Kwatt

Yes it seems so to you but NO not all countries in Europe are part of NATO

NATO isn't the whole international community !

And the whole international community doesn't share common values or need the help of a Military called the NATO !

Thats my point

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

That’s why Finland or Sweden joining NATO, which is demanded by irresponsible and clueless politicians, is an unnecessary and dangerous provocation of Russia.

Gotta love how the fascist Russia and shakin' Putin defenders try and twist things to justify Russia's outrages.

What IS dangerous, illegal and provocative is fascist Russias invasion of a sovereign nation. It is logical - and responsible - that Sweden and Finland now seek the collective self-defense of NATO.

Start a war, deal with the consequences.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Imagine a woman her age being PM in Japan.

Imagine a woman being PM in Japan.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

NATO isn't the whole international community !

And the whole international community doesn't share common values or need the help of a Military called the NATO ! Thats my point

and the countries that NATO represents are nearly all in Europe, and all those countries do share common values as free sovereign nations where democratic principles are held and their leader are chosen by the people, NATO is 30 member countries soon to be 31 or 32, thats a formidable military alliance even without the US. How many NATO member countries have been attacked by non Nato countires?

Finland has a powerful military and undergrounds infrastructure they been building for the last 100yrs, thanks to the soviets. No Putins USSR would never stand a chance against all NATO memeber.

dont bring up nukes , that is mutually assured destruction, nobody wins, everybody dies

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Putin didn’t plan very far ahead on this one. He sure did unite the world against Russia though. This careless miscalculation will set Russia back decades.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Prior to Russia's invasion the position of Finland and Sweden was to remain independent of NATO.

After Russia's brutality was revealed in its invasion of a non aligned Ukraine, the sentiment in both Finland and Sweden has reoriented to be majority in favor of immediately joining NATO to ensure they do not stand alone against Russian intimidation and aggression.

Russia can only blame itself for making such a blunder that increases NATO membership and strength. Something Putin says he wanted to avoid.

This will enhance security for NATO and its members and make Putin feel less able to conquer in Europe as there are fewer non aligned states he can safely attack. Russia, and Putin are safe behind their nuclear arsenal. Nobody wants to invade Russia and begin armageddon. Putin just wants power, thats all he has ever wanted. He has risked it all on a roll of the dice and his miscalculation will cost Russia and himself more than he ever imagined.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Finland and Sweden should NOT join NATO which is now turning into a

British military adventure because of Boris Johnsons domestic problems.

Scandinavia and the three Baltic states should create a neutral Baltic alliance.

NATO is by definition limited to the Atlantic Ocean.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It did not come out of thin air. There is a historical background to that. For example after the Second World War, Finland signed a treaty of peace with the Soviet Union which by the way had resulted in pushing out German forces out of Finland. In the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance established by the Soviet Union, Finland promised to adhere to neutrality unless the country itself was attacked. This resulted in a strong, openly neutral Finnish standpoint in foreign and security policy. The treaty was cancelled in 1992 and replaced with a new, more liberal treaty on friendly relations. Sweden had similarly historic reasons to adhere to a neutrality standpoint.

You know your history, as do I. Very nice and to the point without too much detail. well done.

That’s why Finland or Sweden joining NATO, which is demanded by irresponsible and clueless politicians, is an unnecessary and dangerous provocation of Russia. Sweden and Finland can continue their policies of close partnerships with NATO without applying for membership.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. I can see why they would want to join seeing what Russia is doing today. They share a border with Russia, and Putin has proven himself to be extremely unpredictable and rash. No one knows what he is going to do next. The provocation comes from the side that invaded.

There are some that say their joining Nato is a provocation that will lead to war, while others say it will act as a deterrence as Russia will never directly confront Nato.

2 different schools of thought. Clearly we both are in separate camps, but no one really knows what will happen going forward.

Only time will tell.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

With this visit though, it could be that Japan has become a defacto leader of those wanting to end thier dependency on Russian crude and other exports, and therefore build a better working relationship with the U.S. and Asia. I hope they are here on a 'how to' mission. That's a diplomatic gold medal for Japan. Time will tell.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

not so wise step to be honest.

wise people will learn from own mistakes in history.seems that lady from FIN will need to do that a bit more...

btw UK have promised that in case of russian attack will come and will help to Sweden and Finlad.i gues it may same help as they have provided to Poland in Sep 1939 when wehrmacht have attacked Poland after Gliwice incident...sure "ally" you can "trust"...

very last question-what is japanese business in that or what is japanese involvement in that?let me guess-none?but yes I may be wrong...

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Given the beating the Ukrainians are giving them,

The Ukrainians are taking a beating in the Dombass and only able to "reclaim" positions after Russia pulls back after completing it's objectives.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Finland get all of it's gas from Russia. 100% ...

It may need to look for an alternative supply. I hear it gets cold in winter.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Finland joining NATO, now that would be one step closer to a world war wouldn't it.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Finland certainly should join NATO. It has access via the Baltic Sea to the North Atlantic: it's history with Russia is mixed, it fought with the Germans against Russia to recover some of its territory, then had to give them back afterwards: it's a democratic and very civilized country (e.g no school is allowed to charge fees): it has seen the struggles of its three Baltic neighbours with Russia. Why would it not join?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Christopher Lowery

Any country not completely dedicated to ending Russian imports is outright supporting Russia.

Iam sorry but however that isn't completely accurate because countries that have long been dependent on Russian oil and fuel and the products made in China or India from fossil resources cant possible just disconnect easily.

Even tho products directly coming from Russia are becoming rapidly banned , the products being made in other countries around the world that use Russian resources to make them aren't being banned or stifled.

Examples would be - most medicines are made using benzene from fossil resources and numerous types of plastics and minerals to make electronic components and clothing -the list is endless of the products being made from Russian resources including seafood .

I think its reasonable to assume many countries including Japan would prefer to just outright ban and discontinue anything from Russia -unfortunately as we can observe that is more easily said than done.

Look around your living area and you will find many products that the resources to make them or light and heat your home originated from Russian resources.

Sad but true !

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Nibek32

Putin didn't plan very far ahead

He sure did unite the world against Russia

Perhaps you should have thought your comment through before posting it because it's completely obvious that the whole world isn't United against Russia.

And no iam definitely not defending Russia, just clarifying facts.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Not a wise move on Marin’s part.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The Ukrainians are taking a beating in the Dombass and only able to "reclaim" positions after Russia pulls back after completing it's objectives.

Since the stated moscovian aim is the 'liberation' of Donbas, what's the logic behind then 'pulling back' after 'completing their objectives'? They don't imagine the Ukrainian military will simply just walk back in (and start picking up the body parts of 'liberated' Donbasians ala Bucha, but that's another story)?

It seems it certainly helps understand moscovian mentality if you have had a logic amputation.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It seems people of Finland will have to stock up firewood for the next winter. I heard the winter is pretty harsh over there

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Eastman

There is some truth to what you say.

Ive heard wisdom is knowing what not to do when times are tough.

Sooner that later is best

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

katyToday  10:31 am JST

NATO bombed Serbia

non NATO country for what reason ?

Because of the Serbs ethnic cleansing actions mainly. So many people had to flee that war into neighbouring countries it was starting to cause considerable problems and could've spilt over. Also, the UNs hands were rather tied on taking any action by Russian vetos, who were supportive of the Serbs.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This probably isn't what Russia had in mind with their desire for NATO to be finnished.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Mr KiplingToday  02:54 pm JST

Finland get all of it's gas from Russia. 100% ...

It may need to look for an alternative supply. I hear it gets cold in winter.

Only 6% of Finlands energy consumption is gas. They are not creating any new contracts with Russia for any energy resources and are confident they won't need any resources from Russia by Autumn 2023.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@David BrentToday  12:32 pm JST

Imagine a woman her age being PM in Japan.

Imagine a woman being PM in Japan.

For your sake, imagine a woman her age being the top of CCP China and current Russia

Imagine a woman or even Asian-American being the POTUS

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

cleo...

Since the stated moscovian aim is the 'liberation' of Donbas, what's the logic behind then 'pulling back' after 'completing their objectives'?

Sorry, I was referring to objectives not in the Dombas. There was never an intention to hold Kiev or the north. No gains in the east will be withdrawn. They will be become Russia. As will the south. Odessa could be a bargaining chip for the Ukrainians. Let us keep a port and we'll say by to the east. But it seems the US wants to fight its proxy war to the last Ukrainian.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

knicknack....

Finland is a small country with only a small gas consumption, so they can probably get their supply of gas delivered at much higher cost. They do however, at present import 100% of their gas from Russia.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

 I was referring to objectives not in the Dombas.

What 'objectives' would those be, then?

What was the point of advancing on Kyiv and the north if there was never any intention to hold it? To give muscovite conscripts practical training in how to imitate sitting ducks as their kilometres-long convoy sat surrounded by impassable mud, out of fuel and out of food? To give them practice in how to get rid of incompetent generals by running them over with outdated tanks? To give them practice in looting, raping and summary executions in Bucha? What was the point?

No gains in the east will be withdrawn. They will be become Russia.

Oops, be careful, you're setting yourself up to be shot down for passing on fake news, the official muscovite line is that those places already are russian, there is no need for them to 'become' russian. Strange that they're having to kill all the 'Russians' who live there and flatten their homes in order to 'save' them, but then nothing the muscovites are doing or saying makes any sense.

it seems the US wants to fight its proxy war to the last Ukrainian.

Proxy, smoxy. If Mad Vlad wants to fight a war against the US, then why doesn't he be a big man and invade? If he objects to the US, the UK and other countries providing weapons and training, why doesn't he attack those countries? Cos they're bigger than him, is why. He thought Ukraine would be a three-day walkover. All his whining and whinging about others helping Ukraine is nothing more than the typical reaction of a schoolyard bully when he finds out his victim has friends who are way stronger than him.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

cleo....

What 'objectives' would those be, then?

Duh.... Really, you haven't heard? Its going to be Russian.

Ditto the south and probably all the way to Odessa.

They have already changed the number plates for newly registered cars. No Ukraine flag... Oh and pensions are being paid in Russian rubles.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Yeh, hi, a Finn here.

The neutral relationship between Finland and Russia before was a balancing act, and largely based on at least some kind of mutual trust. After some extremely brash comments from Russia during the last couple of years - clearly sending the message that Russia somehow thinks it has any say in what other sovereign countries do - and then this completely uncalled for, brutal, vicious attack against Ukraine - that trust, even the small bits of it, has completely, totally gone.

At this moment, joining Nato is the right thing to do for us. We have a very strong, extremely functional army of our own, but Nato will provide some extra security for us and for the rest of Europe. 

Overall, Russia has no business whatsoever telling other countries what they should or shouldn't do, and even if some countries do "unpleasant acts" in their opinion, it does not justify Russia's brutal, violent actions. There is no justification for the attack on Ukraine. None. Finland joining Nato is also a clear message and a firm stance against behaviour and thought-patterns like this.

Personally, I had dreams and plans of visiting Russia in the future and get to know the country’s culture, people and history better. After February 24th, I don’t even want to look their way - at least not until the slaughterer and his puppets are long gone. 

@Mr Kipling

Finland get all of it's gas from Russia. 100% ...

It may need to look for an alternative supply. I hear it gets cold in winter.”

@Seth M

“It seems people of Finland will have to stock up firewood for the next winter. I heard the winter is pretty harsh over there.”

Gas forms only around 5% of the total energy consumption in Finland. So I don’t think this is such a big issue. You’re also welcome to Finland to learn about “snowhow” and how to build proper houses that stand against the cold winters: e.g. triple-glazed windows and proper insulation in between the walls. In every single house. There are also approximately 3 million saunas (not heated with gas, btw) - in Finland (with a population of 5.5 million), so don’t worry. We can keep ourselves warm. We've done it before modern times, and we'll do that now.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

A democratic country that won’t allow a referendum from its citizens.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Rodney

A democratic country that won’t allow a referendum from its citizens.

Unnecessary at this time - it would just delay the process. The quicker we join, the better. The polls clearly show the decision to join Nato is supported by the citizens. The most recent poll showed 73% support.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

EastmanToday 02:42 pm JST

not so wise step to be honest.

Since when is greater safety not a wise move?

wise people will learn from own mistakes in history

Finland is showing it HAS learned from history by joining NATO. History shows Russia can not be trusted. History shows Russia will invade Finland for any reason.

All those saying it is not wise to join are talking from the Russian perspective. It is good for Finland and for NATO, but not good for Russia who has desires to expand its borders even more, but can only do so against border nations not in NATO.

Russia will never be invaded again, that is clear as doing so is suicidal. If Russia had only peaceful intentions it would not matter who does or does not join NATO, and Russia itself could move to do so. Imagine Russia in NATO and being able to sell military equipment to all European nations like the S-400 and anything else that is best of class or is good value and reliable. Standardization of equipment would help it sell more and earn more.

Putin is not interested in partnerships but in domination, that is the crux of the Russian problem.

They could have moved into mainstream Europe after the USSR collapse and were indeed treated as if they were doing so until Putin was elected and chose a path of being adversary over mutual cooperation.

Twenty years later and Putin plunges Europe into another brutal conflict that should not have happened.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What 'objectives' would those be, then?

Duh.... Really, you haven't heard? Its going to be Russian.

You’re going round in circles. You say they retreated sorry pulled out from Kyiv and the north because they’d no intention of holding it in the first place, then it’s going to be Russian? What, where, is going to be Russian? The Donbas? They claim it already is. The whole of Ukraine? Then why pull out from the capital? If not the whole of Ukraine, why make a pass at Kyiv? And if eastern Ukraine is already Russian and populated by Russians who just happen to have Ukrainian passports, what’s the reasoning behind flattening the place with bombs and missiles? Why didn’t they just saunter into the place and accept the hugs and kisses of people grateful for their ‘liberation’?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

NATO bombed Serbia

non NATO country for what reason ?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe little things like the seige of Sarajevo or the massacre at Srebrenica, killing thousands of innocent people because the killers didn't like their religion and coveted their land. The force operated under a UN Resolution and had a UN commander. The force was composed of both NATO members and many non-NATO militaries too such as those from Switzerland, Finland, Austria, Moldava, Slovenia (not yet a NATO member), Croatia and North Macedonia. Europe came together to stop the Serbs from butchering the Kosovars. Do you have a problem with that?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

 Imagine Russia in NATO and being able to sell military equipment to all European nations like the S-400 and anything else that is best of class or is good value and reliable.

So far S-400 has been a useless system for the Russians. It hasn't prevented the relatively slow, propeller driven and not even a little bit stealthy Ukrainian operated Bayraktar drones from operating freely even over Russian forces. Best in class? Really? Shoulder fired Stingers have scored a lot more kills than S-400 has.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Ukrainians are taking a beating in the Dombass and only able to "reclaim" positions after Russia pulls back after completing it's objectives.

The Russians retreat after their pontoon bridges are destroyed, the tug used to place the is sunk and battalion's worth of armored vehicles destroyed. If their objective was to lose hundreds of their soldiers, dozens of armored vehicles, basically get handed their backsides and retreat then, yeah, they're completing their objectives.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"NATO isn't internationaly welcome by all countries."

You are right: it is neither welcome by Sinosphere nor by Russosphere or their partners.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The Russians retreat after their pontoon bridges are destroyed, the tug used to place the is sunk and battalion's worth of armored vehicles destroyed. If their objective was to lose hundreds of their soldiers, dozens of armored vehicles

You should receive info from both sides.

but it will be shock for you.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Finnish PM says joining NATO will strengthen security

Mr Zelenskiy can prove it.

They have today too much security.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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