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Gov't considers revision of 'comfort women' apology

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Disgraceful.

27 ( +35 / -8 )

'Gaffes'? You mean when officials publicly say what they really believe?

12 ( +20 / -8 )

Move on already. You will never please everyone, prove your worth by what you do in the present and bring to the future.

-17 ( +11 / -28 )

"There were no materials that directly substantiate forcible recruitments by the Japanese government or by the military, " Clearly never happened, then.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

The Japanese government will consider revising an apology for its wartime system of sex slavery, a top official said Monday,

Begs the obvious question -- WHY? Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what Japan has to gain from this?! Sure there may be some short-term politcal gains for Abe and his cronies, but what good would it do Japan as a whole?

27 ( +32 / -5 )

Fascinating. Except Japan has never apologized. Some individuals in government have expressed "remorse" and made statements acknowledging Japan's wartime and colonial misdeeds, but none of those statements have been approved by the Diet or any cabinets.

Now they want to review the testimony of a mere 16 women, and only those from South Korea, as if there were not thousands of sex slaves from across Asia and even some from Europe.

And another problem with this entire discussion is that some people can't tell the difference between sex slaves and comfort women. Women who joined the corps, were treated well and got paid were comfort women. They mostly served officers. Women and girls who were abducted or sold by their desperate parents and then forceably sent to brothels to be raped repeatedly and were given the bear necessities of life only were sex slaves. Its night and day. How can people not see the difference?

11 ( +23 / -12 )

@jerseyboy

I don't believe that "Japan as a whole" features anywhere in Abe's concerns.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

And they like to accuse Korea of fixating on this subject... What possible good could come of this?

16 ( +20 / -4 )

The recruiters preyed on poor women who had little or no education. They were told they could make a good salary working overseas for the Japanese military. Later, they dropped that pretense and simply abducted women and sent them to the brothels. Some were elementary school students as young as 14. Many of the women were reportedly killed or simply abandoned as Japanese troops lost battles in the latter days of the war.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

What possible positive result can be derived from this announcement or from actually re-examining the evidence that that forms the basis of the 1993 Kono Statement? It can result in either denial of the assertions of forced sexual slavery and prostitution or result in confirmation of the original statement which was never accepted by either China or South Korea. Either way it will only inflame an already volatile situation for no foreseeable gain for Japan or the Japanese people. Maybe they just trying to make right wing politicians feel useful in some strange way?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

This is far worse than even just "ignoring" claims.

What is wrong with these people?

People of Japan, you have to get these old men out of government before they completely ruin the country..

16 ( +20 / -4 )

Actually, China and Korea are not on position of demanding apologies from Japan. Why? They have made atrocities in the past ,and it was proved by their own documents and records. While thousands of Chinese civilians were killed by Mao and persecuted by the CCP, the Koreans also explored Vietnamese ladies to become comfort women during the Vietnam War. In other words they are being hypocrites when they are demanding apologies from Japan.

-31 ( +10 / -41 )

I don't know how this is going to play out. Personally, I'd rather the right-wing loonies in government shut up and be much more constructive, especially to South Korea which Japanese need to ally with against China.

But also, I cannot shake the feeling that South Korea is getting its just desserts by denying forever that there were any Japanese apologies for comfort women, now South Korea is in the position of saying please do not rescind the 1993 apology. Obviously, you cannot rescind something that didn't exist.

That South Korea (and China) now need to acknowledge that there was a 1993 apology by Kono is the only positive advantage for Japan I can see from this action. But do you really have to rake so much coals just to prove there was once a fire?

Baffling.

Ideally, Japan would pull back from the brink of rescission, acknowledge South Korea and China's feelings and the reestablish the import of the Kono Statement of as an official apology in 1993.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Japanese people around the world should be embarrassed by this.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Doesn't matter how it's revised one way or the other. South Korea will be angry. I suspect that even if Japan let South Korea write the statement itself they'd still be angry.

-17 ( +14 / -31 )

"Last week, Suga told parliament that the government “would like to consider” setting up a verification team with academics who would look again at the 16 women’s accounts."

I'm sure that "verification team" will be carefully picked and the outcome a foregone conclusion.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Equal to Holocaust denial. This will shame Japan. Abe must go. Repeat: Abe must go.

16 ( +23 / -7 )

CrazyJoeFeb. 25, 2014 - 07:34AM JST The recruiters preyed on poor women who had little or no education. They were told they could make a good salary >working overseas for the Japanese military. Later, they dropped that pretense and simply abducted women and sent >them to the brothels. Some were elementary school students as young as 14. Many of the women were reportedly >killed or simply abandoned as Japanese troops lost battles in the latter days of the war.

Do you realize that those "recruiters" were Koreans? This was even in the testimonies given by surviving Comfort Women.

-17 ( +11 / -28 )

It's not about apology, it's about compensation. The South Korean government needs to be forthright about the fact it spent the compensation money and take some responsibility itself, instead of blustering that Japan hasn’t apologized nor compensated enough. In 1965, South Korea agreed never to make further compensation demands against Japan, either at a government or individual level, after receiving U.S. $800 million. These comfort women should take up the issue with their own Korean goverment.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

Japanese people including me should be shamed by our ancestors wrongdoing.

10 ( +19 / -9 )

What, exactly, would be the point of this? With the exception of placating the right-wing fringe elements, this would do nothing except antagonize and offend.

Pointless. And quite cold.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Incredible....never thought they are so damn stupid. In this time when Japan should seek more friends they completely shooting the mouth. Okay...no evidence of Japanese atrocities during WW2...no use apology they keep beating us on this issue...why should we apologize when the Chinese Mao killed some many of his countrymen.. If you are really sincere about apologizing...you don't think what others said...

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

It is very regrettable that the goodwill of the Japanese government has done no good

no Mr Suga. A real sincere apology is simply not a jester of goodwill that can be taken back when you don't get what you want from the person you apologized to.

This only proves the Koreans without a doubt that Japan's apology based on conditions have always been partially adopted by few in Japan.

Most Koreans could careless what Japan does at this point with this fake past apology. But what this will could do is a tit for tat actions from Korean government.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

After end of WWII, Japan which spent basically from 1950's through mid 1990s under the same conservative LDP government. There was no change in thought or attitude. At best, the Japanese government was able to buy off the Chinese and Koreans, providing loans and grants while those governments kept nationalistic sentiments tamped down. When the LDP hold was toppled in the 1990s, the coalition government was so weak that even though it began reconciliation with a formal apology, it couldn't make much progress before the LDP came back to power one year later. Japan needed a strong center-left party to lead the way. Unfortunately, Murayama and the Japanese Social Democrats were simply too weak. Japan's delay in the process has only made it more difficult for any real reconciliation. Had they done it back when Japan was at its peak, Chinese and Korean nationalism were somewhat under control and Japan had bought some goodwill through economic aid, they might have gotten their message across more smoothly. Instead, now you have Japan in a weak position, China and Korea ascendant, and both those nations experiencing near-rabid nationalistic sentiments, it'll be much harder for all involved to come together.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

And another problem with this entire discussion is that some people can't tell the difference between sex slaves and comfort women... How can people not see the difference?

Honestbloke,

Because there is no difference. "Comfort women" and "sexual slave" are one and the same. "Comfort women" is merely the English transliteration of the Japanese term, "ianfu," which was a eupemism coined by the Japanese military to describe the fully sanctioned brothels devoted exclusively to soldiers' use. How well the women who worked in these brothels were treated depended almost exclusively on the mood of the visiting soldiers.

But I get what you're saying about the disingenous nature of Japan's official apologies.

What I find fascinating however is that even the most ardent supporters of Japan's more right-leaning tendencies, even those posting here, aren't actually saying the comfort stations and the horror they entails didn't exist, but rather are spending a lot of time and energy trying to deflect attention from Japan's culpability with statement like, "Well, China did bad things too," or "Hey, Koreans helped out with the 'recruiting'"

I'd laugh if it weren't just so sad and pathetic. Find your man-sack, Japan. 'Fess up and face the music so my daughter and her children and her children's children don't have to live with the spectre of Japanese militarism haunting their every step while growing up and living in this otherwise fine country.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This just boggles the mind. The current Japanese administration has a whole host of serious issues on its plate (nuclear accidents, displaced persons continuing to live in prefab huts in Tohoku, declining birth rates, declining industrial competitiveness, antagonistic neighbors, etc. The list goes on). But the government wants to live in denial about such issues and instead go "man to man" with its neighbors over questions of history that are beyond debate (while hiding behind the skirt of Washington). Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me how dumb certain elements of the LDP (in particular) can be. What do they hope to achieve by raising the ante?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Japanese nationalism running amok.

http://hankyung.com/?ac=article_view&entry_id=422673

59% of Japanese say the apology should be eliminated. Lol. There goes the excuse that only a few Japanese are history deniers. That favorite excuse for a long time is really wearing thin.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

This only proves the Koreans without a doubt that Japan's apology based on conditions have always been partially adopted by few in Japan

Well, chosun ilboy calls openly PM Abe as 'insane'. Oficially. Why he should do anything when he's already labelled as 'crazy' in South Korea? He won't do a thing towards South Korea until smiling president Park will be mustered by harsh reality where she is.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

This country has so much to lose and so little to gain by propping up this corpse of an issue.

"However, a minority of right-wing Japanese insist there was no official involvement by the state or the military and say the women were common prostitutes." should read--> "However a majority of non-Japanese insist that the prime minister is a common prostitute of the right."

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Chechan. I don't think Abe is insane. But some people may have said that after Abe attended the Takeshima Day celebration of few days ago when the assembly said they will make the year 2015 the year when Takeshima returns to Japan. Some Koreans were wondering what this means. Is me Abe proposing to go to war over the island? Because that's the only way Japan will get that island. That's why some Koreans may think Abe is insane.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

I can't believe it. It is just disgusting! Are they going to ask again and again to those poor women , at the end of their lives, to recall those terrible and unspeakable moments ? The Japanese government should feel ASHAMED , instead!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

What are you doing Japan? Why dig this up again?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

GOJ ... please stop apologizing for things that happened 73 or more years ago. China and Korea only keep bringing these things up in discussion because they enjoy watching you squirm. Time to stop your groveling at the feet who have no moral advantages.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Stupid and disgusting leadership!!! Not deserve to lead world peace at all!!! Because of these egoists, Japan has to suffer. What a SHAME!!!

2 ( +7 / -5 )

I think we've all seen this coming since a while ago.

Abe is on a mission to completely isolate Japan.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

I will never understand the logic of 'well they have done bad things too, so we don't have to apologize' using unrelated events as examples. If you do not believe that a crime was committed, prove it. If you did it, apologize and then do not ever try to back step and lessen what you did

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Bad move. Very bad move. And I thought Abe said just a few days ago that Japan would stand by apologies made in the past?

I'm skeptical of the poll result. We can't see how the question is framed and the Sankei Shimbun is described as nationalistic, so logically the readership will tend to be nationalistic too.

In my experience, the issue doesn't preoccupy ordinary Japanese citizens as it does some politicians, and I'm sure most Japanese citizens would rather it not be dug up and revisited endlessly. Therefore, I feel the government is not representing the people of Japan on this, just the narrow personal interests of a few stupid politicians. These idiots say they are looking to restore the nation's self-esteem, but Japan had the second largest economy in the world (and third ain't bad, while Japan's GDP per capita is still way ahead of China's), a high standard of education, a comparatively safe society, comparatively secure jobs....

Spoilt politicians living too much of the good life and throwing away Japan's good reputation for the sake of personal pride a few vested interests. Japan's citizens deserve better than this.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

59% of Japanese say the apology should be eliminated.

I believe that is 59% of those who read a known right wing newspaper (and could be bothered to participate in the survey) think the apology should be rescinded, not 59% of the population at large. There is a distinction to be made there.

Anyway, I'm so tired of listening to this topic. Japanese are tired of listening to this topic. Another article posted up at JT today says that the Germans are tired of listening to this topic. Surely the people in ROK must be getting tired as well.

What can be done to put this behind us? The cycle seems endless. Its really depressing. As a hardliner for ROK chucky, and someone who has obviously devoted a great deal of personal time to the issue, I wonder if you could illustrate the sort of actions that you think would (could, might) bring an end to this constant back and forth.

Are there any realistic scenarios that you can see, or are we doomed to keep this up for another 100 years?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Jeff HuffmanFeb. 25, 2014 - 08:57AM JST

The South was well-supplied with prostitutes since the post-WWII French colonial days. Their numbers rose after the U.S. entered the war.

This is very important. Look at the definition of comfort women by US Army in 1944 during WW2. http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers.

"Comfort women" is translation of Japanese ianfu or Korean Wianbu that means "prostitutes". It is recorded that Korean soldiers fighting in Vietnam called the prostitutes in Vietnam Wianbu.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

I have to wonder what good will come out of Abe staying in another term? We all know Abenomics doesn't really benefit the middle class and lower class. Financially and diplomatically, Abe is really dragging the whole Japan through the mud just to please the right-wingers and old foggies running big business.

I'd laugh if it weren't just so sad and pathetic. Find your man-sack, Japan. 'Fess up and face the music so my daughter and her children and her children's children don't have to live with the spectre of Japanese militarism haunting their every step while growing up and living in this otherwise fine country.

Yeah very selfish of these current right-wingers. They are basically leaving Japan's future generations to confront the cold hostility from neighbours, bad reputations of defiant attitude and uncooperative decisions. Knowing China and Korea, these countries will never ever forget the events in WW2 and continue to bug Japan because their great great grandfathers were war criminals.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Abe really is running a bunch of clowns. His only "achievement" to date is getting the yen over 100 again and getting the stock market over 15,000 again. and that by forcingh BoJ to print money like crazy. This can only end badly.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

From reading the Japanese press, it's pretty clear that Japanese are convinced that nothing they say or do is ever going to move Koreans to cease their bellowing and whining over how bad Japanese are. In this context I can understand Japanese frustration. But once a government statement is rescinded, that's the same thing as saying nothing the Japanese government says or does will carry any weight, ever. So revising the Kono Statement would be a huge mistake.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"GOJ ... please stop apologizing for things that happened 73 or more years ago."

Irrelevant comment. GOJ is NOT considering issuing a new apology, it's considering revising (i.e. scaling back) the terms of the 1993 Kono Statement, the statement which should have, once and for all, put an end to this matter 21 years ago. PM Abe and his hardcore right-wing backers have never accepted the Kono Statement, and therein lies a major problem. This is just more "Lost Cause" nonsense being peddled by right-wing politicians in Japan, who can't seem to let bygones be bygones.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

This is both disgusting and unnerving. No good can come from this at all. Most of the women that were enslaved are dead and the evidence given by the few was done so behind closed doors. The only thing Japan is trying to achieve by this is they want to remove official accountability and shift the blame from the government to the soldiers and deny it was government sanctioned thus, relieving them of responsibility. However, the point is, it DID happen and whether it was government sanctioned or not is irrelevant. The defences given by more than one politician and even someone in this thread about other countries taking sex slaves just proves that it did happen and they are trying to justify it with, "but they did it too!" It is also fact that Japan has been bending he truth of the history of the war since it ended. Even Japanese high school textbooks are very carefully edited as to not make Japan look like the aggressor, which we all know is complete hogwash! As a result of this 'edited' history most Japanese do not have any education of the events of WWII and those that do just deny it or defend it with, "but they did it too!" It should not be surprising that these old fools running the country fall into the category of deniers because they grew up in the 'edited' generation. This action is no did decent to the totalitarian mindset that japan used to try to take over Asia all those years ago. They are still trying to force their domination of Asia.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

This must be the 4th "arrow", the one he uses to stab Japan in the back. No good can POSSIBLY come of this.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Gov't considers revision of 'comfort women' apology

Best to tread lightly on that thin very ice - you can practically hear the ice cracking now.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

DisillusionedFeb. 25, 2014 - 10:11AM JST

I would like to remind you that "sex slave" is a politically correct word for a "prostitute". Any prostitute is a sex slave for no woman with free will would sell sex for money. A prostitute is financially coerced into selling sex and therefore a sex slave.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

I believe this article can give a different view about the matter: http://mainichi.jp/english/english/perspectives/news/20140224p2a00m0na005000c.html According to it, it's not a matter of being in denial. If you apologize for your past mistakes but these apologizes, being proof of your mistakes, are used for an endless bashing on you and ask for more compensations, don't you think it's frustrating?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

This article is not clear.

In the first paragraph, it states "The Japanese government will consider revising "

In the second paragraph, it states "is to be re-examined"

When exactly did Yoshihide Suga give this press conference? Was it today? Yesterday?

I believe that there is a general consensus that "officially revising" a past apology is not only an inflammatory move, but just plain stupid.

But I do question the reporting here and the way in which the article is presented. I get the feeling that it has been published simply to generate "clicks" from the usual suspects - myself included.

What is new here?

Come on JT .... you can do a little better, this is starting to feel like a FOX News site.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

OssanAmerica said:

"Do you realize that those "recruiters" were Koreans? This was even in the testimonies given by surviving Comfort Women?"

Trying to sneak past us the pretense that the recruiters were all Korean and therefore it must have been a purely Korean operation, eh? Nice try, but it will not change the fact that even the Koreans were working for JAPANESE bosses.

sfjp330 said:

"It's not about apology, it's about compensation"

Let's test your notion. Here's a thought experiment: propose to the surviving Korean victims of Japan's enforced sexual slavery that if they should only give up all future claims to personal monetary compensation, in return Japan will agree to officially admit its guilt, proclaim it to the world by having Prime Minister Abe come to Korea to deliver an official apology in person, have textbooks reflect the truth, and build a big, public memorial in the middle of Tokyo that tells the story of Japan's atrocities and states a detailed apology, making the apology permanent and irreversible. All of this is still less than what Germany has done, so Japan shouldn't have any problem doing it. I think the Korean victims would accept the deal. Would Japan? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

slowguy2,

I will make it clear about compensation. After Japan's acknowledging the involvement of the military in the comfort system in 1992, the J-government conducted formal investigations into the matter before it admitted in 1993 that there had been coercive recruitment in some cases. PM Miyazawa indicated that the government would come up with some vague gesture in lieu of compensation for the survivors. The Miyazawa's goverment was unable to act on this for reasons. The Korean Council and other support groups were opposed to any measure that evaded Japan's legal responsibility. The ruling LDP was trapped between its admission of coercive recruitment and its unwillingness to say or do anything that might indicate legal responsibility. Japan was concerned about the class-action lawsuit, stunned by numerous compensation lawsuit, and Japanese immediately assumed that the comfort women survivors were motivated by economic gain. This is the reason why many backed the J-government position that the 1965 agreement normalizing relations between Korea and Japan had settled all reparation issues.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Surely the people in ROK must be getting tired as well

I don't think so. SKorea is increasing the budget to spread this to the world, such as erecting more statues of comfort women in US and other places.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

They are just digging their own grave. Looking for trouble. Japanese bureacratic slime.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

@NZ2011

People of Japan, you have to get these old men out of government before they completely ruin the country..

This is what Japanese people want more than Japanese politicians do.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Here we go again with the revisionist statements...next week Abe will be in the media again calling for a summit / dialogue with SK and / or China and when he receives the cold shoulder , will pretend to act all surprised how Japanese "offers to talk " are being turned down. They continue coming up with this crap denialsabout the sex slaves, Nanking, "liberating " Asia from the big bad western imperialism and then keep wondering why their "apologies " are not being seen as sincere. Can you imagine the outcry in Europe if Germany started denying / revising its WW2 actions?

4 ( +9 / -5 )

As history shows, once yet again, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. Stupidity knows no bounds for these poorly educated souls. Any academic, rational person, or child will tell you that Japan has nothing to gain from this. Indeed, the 2020 Olympics will become boycott central among East Asians. Japan has poor relations with nearly all of its neigbors nearly 70 years after WW2. Younger, better educated politicians please. Japan is going down the toilet. We need people who understand that what goes around, comes around.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Any prostitute is a sex slave for no woman with free will would sell sex for money. A prostitute is financially coerced into selling sex and therefore a sex slave.

Ummm.... No.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@mataka

better educated politicians please

There is no "better educated politician" in Japan. Or Japanese people simply would not vote for them because they are not educated at all. So you can give up on Japan. This country is doomed.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

I'll wait until the revisions have been made before drawing any conclusions.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Damn, stupidity knows no bounds in Japan!

I am been wondering whether its is going to be an embarrassing month or year to be a gaijin in Japan, I am thinking its going to be a year at least!

Japans quickly losing any credibility it had, how low can she go, Japan seems determined to run off the cliff, is this a new kamikaze run in the making.............. this is NUTS!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

The contradicting testimonies of Korean former comfrot women are much to blame for this situation.

It is not a problem if the review is done in a fair and scientific manner.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

CH3CHO,what happen to the Dutch women, were they also volunteer whores?

3 ( +14 / -11 )

The contradicting testimonies of Korean former comfrot women are much to blame for this situation.

CH3CHO -- nonsense! There were THOUSANDS of women from Korea involved. How can you expect all of there testimony to be consistent. And, you are conveniently ignoring the testimony of ex-Japanese soldiers, the ones with some guts, who have spoken out to support the Korean claims.

It is not a problem if the review is done in a fair and scientific manner.

Again, pure nonsense. The panel will be appointed by the government, and it will be trying to re-construct details from over 70 years ago. There is no chance of it being "fair and scientific".

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Last week, Suga told parliament that the government “would like to consider” setting up a verification team with academics who would look again at the 16 women’s accounts.

I wonder how many people from NHK will be on the verification team.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

These guys are scumbags. There is no other word.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

It not just the Korean women ..how about the Chinese, Filipinos, Dutch, Australians etc.....they are all lying and making it all up too right? The right wing nutbags in Japan know better because they were all there and observed the "luxurious lifestyles" these women enjoyed under the Korean / foreign managment. This is going to do just wonders for Japan in the neighbourhood both diplomatically and economically. Well done LDP, you deserve the reaction you will get for this BS.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

The way to respond to Tokyo's amnesia is to bomb Tokyo, flatten the Diet while in session and then declare it did not happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what Japan has to gain from this?! Sure there may be some short-term politcal gains for Abe and his cronies, but what good would it do Japan as a whole?"

Japan could gain as a whole if by doing stuff like this constantly, China makes a move on Senkaku or something, and then Japan has the position that it is defending itself and calls on big brother US to help it humiliate China.

Let's hope that will never happen. But really Abe is not thinking about Japan gaining in terms of other countries. Ultra-nationalists don't care what other countries think at all. What matters is what happens in Japan. And ultra-nationalists just want there to be a unanimity of thought that Japan has nothing to apologise for at all, and was rather a victim in the war.

It's pretty simple. Abe and co, want all trace of regret and apology taken out, the constitution changed, and a strong youth who are ready to join the military.

If Abe & co aren't out of power in 5 years, wait for the move to conscription and school visits to Yasukuni.

Unlikely? Just wait.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

chucky3176Feb. 25, 2014 - 11:45AM JST

CH3CHO,what happen to the Dutch women, were they also volunteer whores?

You can read the testimony of the Dutch woman, MS. JAN RUFF O’HERNE, here, on page 23. http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

But what she does not say can be found in the introduction by the chairman, on page16.

We also have Ms. Jan Ruff O'Herne. Jan Ruff O'Herne was born in Indonesia in 1923, fourth generation of a Dutch family. In 1944, 21 years old, she was forced into brothel to become a military sex slave for the Japanese military. She was repeatedly abused, beaten, raped in a period of 3 months after which she was returned to prison camp with threats that her family would be killed if she revealed the truth about the atrocities inflicted upon her.

What is less known about her story is that it was Japanese military police that rescued her, after finding she had been taken to comfort station against her will. The person responsible for this crime was punished by Japanese MP. So, this case could not be generalized. Prostitution itself was legal in Dutch colony of Indonesia, just as it is legal now in the Netherlands.

jerseyboyFeb. 25, 2014 - 11:51AM JST

CH3CHO -- nonsense! There were THOUSANDS of women from Korea involved. How can you expect all of there testimony to be consistent.

The testimonies of Korean former comfort women are less that 200, not all of them disclosed to the public. Almost every disclosed testimony has contradiction in itself. The above link has testimonies by Ms. Yong Soo Lee and Ms. Koon Ja Kim. The written version of their testimonies contradict oral version of their testimonies. The supporter group chose their best witnesses from their pool. You can tell the quality of the rest. These contradictions are major obstacles for any serious historian.

-8 ( +8 / -16 )

These politicians should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. And tomorrow, when another memorial is put in place in honor of the sex-slaves and Japan's war-time atrocities scum like Suga will say "this is very regrettable" and "history has been misunderstood", etc. etc. And of course people like Ossan and CH3CHO will come on and say all the women were prostitutes:

"I would like to remind you that "sex slave" is a politically correct word for a "prostitute"."

Case in point.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

nationalistic Sankei Shimbun daily and Fuji TV, in which 59% of respondents said the apology should be revised.

Japan formal apologies are such a jokes which can be reviewed, revised, disputed and withdrawn. Instead of repetitive revision, Japan should not apologize if it is doubtful that they have been wrongly framed. Anyway past apologies were no longer valid, sincere and credible now. Japan is not remorseful and wish to go back to nationalist era.

Instead of saying sorry and slapping someone face again, it is better for Japan did not say any pointless Sorry at all.

While Abe himself has trodden carefully on the issue since coming to power in December 2012, he triggered uproar during his first stint as prime minister in 2007 when he said there was no evidence Japan directly coerced comfort women.

He has not honored former PM apology and he wished to revise since then.

He later elaborated by saying he was talking of coercion in the “strict” sense, such as kidnapping women.

He used to be flip -flopping what he said! As a decent and dutiful J PM, he should not change the tone like changing the clothes.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

PeacetrainFeb. 25, 2014 - 12:36PM JST

Japan could gain as a whole if by doing stuff like this constantly, China makes a move on Senkaku or something, and then Japan has the position that it is defending itself and calls on big brother US to help it humiliate China.

What does comfort women have to do with Senkakus? If China does not want to be humiliated, do not invade Senkakus. Sending troops to Senkakus is a humiliation to itself by China.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Here's a thought experiment: propose to the surviving Korean victims of Japan's enforced sexual slavery that if they should only give up all future claims to personal monetary compensation, in return Japan will agree to officially admit its guilt, proclaim it to the world by having Prime Minister Abe come to Korea to deliver an official apology in person, have textbooks reflect the truth, and build a big, public memorial in the middle of Tokyo that tells the story of Japan's atrocities and states a detailed apology, making the apology permanent and irreversible. All of this is still less than what Germany has done, so Japan shouldn't have any problem doing it. I think the Korean victims would accept the deal. Would Japan? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

@slowguy

Thanks for at least trying to contribute something concrete to the discussion. Your ideas are interesting and to tell the truth, if I had a vote, I would vote to accept your proposal. I believe many of my Japanese friends would also. May I comment in brief.

the idea of Abe apologizing in person is pretty unlikely. But at least its a more reasonable request than some of the hardliners who want the Emperor to go on bended knee.

the monument? Meh, I'd be OK with it but I think you're right in suggesting that a lot of Japanese would have a problem with that. A monument is only symbolic but I fear that, like the monument activists erected in Seoul (right in front of the Japanese Embassy) it would only serve as a flashpoint for rightists on both sides.

the textbooks I think are fine as they are. Countries have the right to edit their own educational material, and nothing I've seen in any Japanese textbook would qualify as "revisionist". And yes I've read many of them myself.

I suspect you forgot to add "no further visits to Yasukuni" to your list, and this is the one I would never budge on if I was a j-pol. Yasukuni was established long before WW2 and attempts to portray visits to the shrine as "worshiping war criminals" is disingenuous and an infringement on the rights of free citizens wherever they may live to conduct their private religious activities as they see fit.

Now may I ask what guarantee the Japanese would have that if they did everything you suggest (which would be in addition to the dozens of other apologies and compensation and treaties) that ROK would belt up about this topic once and for all? If I was a member of the j-gov I would be very skeptical. The current president of ROK for example has no qualms about giving an interview to the BBC in which she states flat out that Japan hasn't apologized. What's to stop her from doing that again next year, or the year after? ROK is already guilty of extremely bad faith and violation of treaties signed on their own free will. You can surely see why j-pols would be unwilling to line up to be the next sap to have their sincere words twisted and mocked by hardcore ROK nationalists who don't want this topic to ever go away.

I think the victims (the actual victims, not the rabble rousers surrounding them and posting anti-Japan messages all over the world, wherever they may be granted an outlet) need closure on this. Its a real shame that the hard heads on both sides are putting their own cheap political shenanigans over the welfare of these surviving victims.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I make no excuses for these idiots 'revising' apologies.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

CH3CHO

I would like to remind you that "sex slave" is a politically correct word for a "prostitute". Any prostitute is a sex slave for no woman with free will would sell sex for money. A prostitute is financially coerced into selling sex and therefore a sex slave.

I have never heard a prostitute being called a sex slave, maybe you actually mean sex worker? Otherwise which countries are you referring to?

What is less known about her story is that it was Japanese military police that rescued her, after finding she had been taken to comfort station against her will. The person responsible for this crime was punished by Japanese MP. So, this case could not be generalized. Prostitution itself was legal in Dutch colony of Indonesia, just as it is legal now in the Netherlands.

Do you have links to show that? What happens today is irrelevant to what happened during the period of Japanese imperialism.

The testimonies of Korean former comfort women are less that 200, not all of them disclosed to the public.

Whats your point? Do you believe there were only 200 Korean comfort women?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

59% of Japanese say the apology should be eliminated. Lol. There goes the excuse that only a few Japanese are history deniers. That favorite excuse for a long time is really wearing thin.

Lets not twist the facts, chucky. The above says they polled readers of a nationalistic newspaper. I doubt any of my friends, family, or colleagues where interviewed about this matter.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

AthletesFeb. 25, 2014 - 01:02PM JST

Instead of saying sorry and slapping someone face again, it is better for Japan did not say any pointless Sorry at all.

I am afraid you are in no position to say so, unless you are a former comfort woman. In addition, it is not a slap in the face.

He has not honored former PM apology and he wished to revise since then.

I do not understand what you mean. Look at this letter from PM Abe approved by his Cabinet to the Speaker of the Upper House, on July 2, 2013 in reply of official inquiry by Upper House member Fukushima Mizuho. http://www.sangiin.go.jp/japanese/joho1/kousei/syuisyo/183/toup/t183144.pdf

"The basic position of the Government is the same as the position stated in the reply letter on Mach 16, 2007, with regard to comfort women."

Letter from PM Abe approved by his Cabinet to the Speaker of the Lower House on March 16, 2007 http://www.shugiin.go.jp/itdb_shitsumon_pdf_t.nsf/html/shitsumon/pdfT/b166110.pdf/$File/b166110.pdf

"3-2 The basic position of the Government is that it succeeds Kono statement and the cabinet has no plan to re-approve the statement."

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Hidingout, Japan has never officially apologized. The Kono and Murayama apologies were never fully endorsed by the majority in the Japanese Diet nor the majority of the Japanese people. Both Kono and Murayama had to compromise and had to carefully word the semi apologies to lessen the responsibility on Japan and not offend the Japanese Diet. They had a heck of all time with opposition to the apology. The Murayama apology for instance garnered only 22% support in the Diet. Murayama had to tone down the original strong apology to a "regret" after some of his own cabinet ministers walked out in protest. This is why Abe and his camp wants to revise them because they never believed them in the first place. Which completely vindicates the Koreans that Japan was never sincere from the beginning.

Frankly I welcome Abe's plans. This way there are no more pretences from Japan that they're sorry when they're not, and they can't anymore use the excuse that they apologized but that the Koreans won!t accept them.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

this is just one of the reasons that Japan does not deserve a seat at the table of important International affairs.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

the MAIN problem of this country is the total lack of interest in politics by the youth. this is one of the many awful results.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Jaymann: "this is just one of the reasons that Japan does not deserve a seat at the table of important International affairs."

Exactly. They don't even deserve consideration of a seat.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Canceling of apology will strengthen guilt feeling and will create more complex situation with Japanese neighbors so why not keep things simple as they are now.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"abhorrent" is the first word that comes to mind...

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

zichiFeb. 25, 2014 - 01:40PM JST

Do you have links to show that?

This is a research report written in Japanese. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0062_p107_141.pdf The title means, "Comfort Women in Indonesia under Japanese Occupation, a Study Reort of the Dutch Archives"

From page 115 to page 117 or from page 9 to page 11 of the PDF, it discusses the Dutch woman's case.

What happens today is irrelevant to what happened during the period of Japanese imperialism.

If prostitution was legal in Dutch Colony of Indonesia, occupying Japanese Imperial Army must respect the local laws.

Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907

Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Suga chan needs to put his mouth in the "safety position" and thus giving his brain a chance. Rewriting history is using it to win votes from fringe elements. People like Suga disgust me.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

CH3CHO Feb. 25, 2014 - 01:49PM JST

Emperor Hirohito had fantasy about changing all sex slaves as licensed prostitutes who lived in luxury like Myitkyina of Myanmar. It was rare because luxury amenities and wages needed fortune for Japan which was struggling to foot the bill for war.The goal of brothel stations was reducing the rape case and negative international publicity. However emperor could not afford financially for getting this goal. The rape cases have sky rocketed even there were licensed prostitutes were employed. Supply did not meet the very high demand.

I am afraid you are in no position to say so, unless you are a former comfort woman. In addition, it is not a slap in the face.

I am afraid you are in no position to say so, unless you are a former emperor Hirohito who was portrayed as living divine God. In fact he was a war criminal who has never been charged for his role of WWII. It was because of the convenience for political transition buy US rather than he was innocent as Angle. In addition, changing stand for apology from Japan is worse than a slap in the face because it has portrayed Sex Slaves who gave their evidence as fraudulent con artists.

I do not understand what you mean. Look at this letter from PM Abe approved by his Cabinet to the Speaker of the Upper House, on July 2, 2013 in reply of official inquiry by Upper House member Fukushima Mizuho. http://www.sangiin.go.jp/japanese/joho1/kousei/syuisyo/183/toup/t183144.pdf

Formal apology should be finalized with the whole cabinet including speaker. It should be concluded as Bipartisanship agreement of parliament. At the end, it is up to the Victims for demanding sincere apology or accepting past apology as real remorse for moving on. Instead of saying multiple Sorry and reviewing and revising for getting comfortable excuse is waste of time. Comfort women is issue is not for comfortable topic for both victims and deniers.

Sex Slaves were multi-nationals. Not only old Korean Women. It is doubtful all were willing volunteers for J imperial soldiers for their pleasure. However there were not many left over now. What took it so long for Japan to review and revise if it was doubtful instead of waiting until 2014?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

AthletesFeb. 25, 2014 - 02:46PM JST

because it has portrayed Sex Slaves who gave their evidence as fraudulent con artists.

I am getting tired of this, but does she look like a con artist to you? http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

page 20 written testimony of MS. YONG SOO LEE before US Congress

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift without telling my mother. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of People's Army uniform with a combat cap. Altogether, there were five girls with him, including myself.

page 17 oral testimony of the same MS. YONG SOO LEE before US Congress on the same day

My name is Lee Yong Soo, and sometimes I am a 14-year-old girl, and I look outside my window, and there is a girl, and there is a Japanese man, and they are saying something to each other, and they are gesturing me to come out. I did not know anything. I did not know what was going on but they gestured me to come out so I came out, and as you seen her dress, the girl and the Japanese soldier put their hand on my shoulder, and covered my mouth, and the soldier put something against my back, and like that in the middle of the night I was taken away.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Jesus christ, how stupid can a government be?

Just leave it alone FFS.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

CH3CHO

This is a research report written in Japanese. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0062_p107_141.pdf The title means, "Comfort Women in Indonesia under Japanese Occupation, a Study Reort of the Dutch Archives" From page 115 to page 117 or from page 9 to page 11 of the PDF, it discusses the Dutch woman's case.

And I didn't find any mention about the rescue of Jan Ruff O'Herne by Japanese MP's or anyone being prosecuted for her illegal abduction?

Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.

Really are you being serious by trying to claim the illegal occupation of countries and nations by imperialist Japanese troops obeyed and followed the laws established in those countries prior to the occupations? I guess someone forgot to inform the imperialist troops to be on their best behaviour.

You know, Imperialist Japan never followed a single international treaty it had signed including the brutal treatment of the POW's? If it had followed those international treaties, there would have been no War Crime Trials.

from the doc you linked to, JAN RUFF O’HERNE

Even the Japanese doctor raped me each time he visited the brothel to examine us for venereal disease. The Japanese soldiers had ruined my young life. They had stripped me of everything. They had taken everything away from me, my youth, my self-esteem, my dignity, my freedom, my posses- sion and my family but there was one thing they could never take away from me, and it was my firm Catholic faith and my love for God. This was mine, and nobody, nobody could take that away from me. It was my deep faith in God that helped me survive all that the Japanese did to me.

I have forgiven the Japanese for what they did to me but I can never forget.

page 25 http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

Maria Rosa Henson (Philippines) was forced to become a sex slave at the age of 15 years, in April 1943 and endured it for 9 months before being rescued by and saved by guerrillas. http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/oralhistory-00.html

10 ( +11 / -1 )

zichiFeb. 25, 2014 - 03:39PM JST

And I didn't find any mention about the rescue of Jan Ruff O'Herne by Japanese MP's or anyone being prosecuted for her illegal abduction?

The case of O'Herne is well know as "Semarang case". The section of the research paper I linked is about the "Semarang case". The paper cites ruling of Batavia war tribunal where the culprits were retried. I do not think the ruling is available online, but if you are in doubt, you can check the national archive of the Netherland.

You know, Imperialist Japan never followed a single international treaty it had signed including the brutal treatment of the POW's? If it had followed those international treaties, there would have been no War Crime Trials.

You are overstating.

Maria Rosa Henson (Philippines) was forced to become a sex slave at the age of 15 years

As I have mentioned before, rape victims should not be confused with comfort women. Comfort women system was set in place by government policy, whereas rape was prohibited. Comfort women were paid whereas rape victims did not get paid. Comfort women received periodical medical checks to prevent STD, whereas rape victims did not.

Rape victims should be given more attention and care than comfort women, but today, rape victims are treated like attachment to the comfort women issue. I think Maria Rosa Henson is a rape victim and should be treated like so.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

They have no idea how much goodwill and respect for Japan is being destroyed by moves like these.. there is no shame in admitting your forefathers (not you, but your fathers and grandfathers) screwed up. Nobody will judge YOU for what happened when you weren't even born. But if you try to deny and re-write history, prepare for the world's scorn and contempt.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Slowguy,

Here's a thought experiment: propose to the surviving Korean victims of Japan's enforced sexual slavery that if they should only give up all future claims to personal monetary compensation, in return Japan will agree to officially admit its guilt, proclaim it to the world by having Prime Minister Abe come to Korea to deliver an official apology in person, have textbooks reflect the truth, and build a big, public memorial in the middle of Tokyo that tells the story of Japan's atrocities and states a detailed apology, making the apology permanent and irreversible.

Actually, with the exception of the big public memorial, Japan has already done all of those things. PM Kiichi Miyazawa apologized eight times during his 1992 visit to South Korea. Japanese history textbooks and silibi were revised to include comfort women, and the all-important word "coercion" was included in the Kono declaration at the insistance of the South Korean government, which implied it would then be satisfied and said it would not demand individual compensation.

Japan trusted South Korea then...and got burned.

South Korea's worldwide campaign of defamation against Japan is on a roll now. Japan is wise to take action to bring South Korea's libelous propaganda to a halt.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Mitch CohenFeb. 25, 2014 - 05:09PM JST

But if you try to deny and re-write history, prepare for the world's scorn and contempt.

I do no think Japanese government is denying or rewriting history. As long as the review is done in a fair and scientific manner, I do not think there should be any problem.

It is very strange that almost every testimony by Korean former comfort woman is fatally contradicting and this is peculiar to Korean former comfort women. I think it is good to sort out what is fact from what is not, in a fair and scientific manner.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

CH3CH0

You previously stated prostitution in Dutch East Indies and the Netherlands but reading from Dutch documents at the time of the war, prostitution was officially prohibited but on practice did occur in both countries.

Prostitution is when a women provides sex for payment in a brothel. I have also read, at some of the forced comfort women refused to accept payment. Rape of a women is when she is forced to provide sex when its against her will. Even a prostitute in a brothel can be raped if she is forced to provide sex against her will.

VI Conclusion From the evidence contained in the documents, it may be concluded that military brothels were established on all the larger islands of the Dutch East Indies during the Japanese occupation and that European women were put to work in these establishments on Java, Sumatra, Celebes, Ambon, Flores and Timor. Though their number cannot be determined exactly on the basis... of the material available, some two hundred to three hundred European women were probably involved, most of whom on the island of Java. European women working in the Japanese military brothels in the Dutch East Indies, some sixty-five were most certainly forced into prostitution. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0205.pdf

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Australian woman has testified that apon capture was forced into the imperial army's rape centre. I'd also point out that not 1 country invaded by IJA has fond memories or a feeling of relief at being "Liberated" by Japan. They all detest and remember with horror what was done in the name of the Emperor.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It is very strange that almost every testimony by Korean former comfort woman is fatally contradicting and this is peculiar to Korean former comfort women. I think it is good to sort out what is fact from what is not, in a fair and scientific manner.

They should have done the research objectively from the beginning instead of letting geopolitics muddle the scientific process.

It's basically too late now.

And what would happen if an independent historical committee came up with a conclusion that didn't support the South Korean (or Japanese) line?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Please, Japan, leave this topic alone. Don't even "consider". Close the book. It's not worth the trouble and in some cases, gives ammunition and legitimacy to those who don't really deserve it.

The country has way more important issues to confront.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The many comments I see here is one of the good reasons to fix a Kono speech this time the based on the real history and facts without any request and influence from Korea like when Kono speech was composed for the first one. That produced this much misunderstanding to the world. At that time, Korea said as long as Japanese government could release a speech that Korean Government also could satisfied,this would be the last and no more issue. This circumstance is now revealing by the people who got involved composing the first Kono speech, therefore this potential reviewing and possible modification is inevitable. Many Japanese people know this fact now when it was on the major news paper in January. That is why the government made this announcement.

For the first Kono speech was a political solution to clam the situation that was understood by the both negotiators.That was why the speech writer let them review each draft to Korea and accepted at least 10 words deletion and used other words before the final draft. But unfortunately, Korea used the speech that was produced for a political solution for two nation's future as our tacit agreement. However, they used it as if it were a historical evidence in their lobbying movement in the world to even erect historical monuments without any objective evidences while many objective evidences existed which indicated that they were not abducted by Japan as they claim but Kono speech has been used to change that fact. At least, the involvement of Imperial army solders were in Indonesia for Dutch women as victims should have been specified then in the first Kono speech. Since the speech is used as a tool by many lobbying activities, Japan has no way to keep as it is. The government then was so naive that they trusted such a deal. Even Japan is criticized from now on, we must keep saying the truth. Because they were not abducted victims. Japan must not apology for the history which does not exist. We may not give this hot potato to our future generation. We sometime in the future need to seek some diplomatic overture with Korea, we must commit to solve this problem now. For this purpose, I agree with the government of Japan today,

For humanity level and moral issue, we have done and paid so much but we should keep doing it more as endlessly also not just the Korean women but any other women are still there,we must apology and pay compensation and participate more actively to reduce the numbers of women victims as a dark side of war.

However, Japan must keep it clear. I understand that we are blamed for moral issues and women's right issue but not criminal issues. These 2 issues represented by Korea as one package makes this problem is so difficult.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

zichiFeb. 25, 2014 - 05:44PM JST

Prostitution was officially prohibited in the Netherlands and in the Dutch East Indies, but occurred, in practice, in both countries. In the years prior to the Japanese occupation, the prostitutes in the Dutch East Indies were mainly of Indonesian or Chinese origin, although a number of European women were also involved, working either as madams in brothels or as prostitutes in brothels and elsewhere.

OK. I stand corrected.

Even a prostitute in a brothel can be raped if she is forced to provide sex against her will.

I agree. In the infamous Semarang case, 36 young women were taken against their will as prostitutes and raped, but that was against Japanese Army policy and the operation was terminated by Japanese officer.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

chucky3176 :

Hidingout, Japan has never officially apologized. The Kono and Murayama apologies were never fully endorsed by the majority in the Japanese Diet nor the majority of the Japanese people.

There are no any reasons for Japanese to apologize. Plain and simple. Stop meowing, whining and crying. World is enough tired of "angry koreans".

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Officer that caused the rape incident in Indonesia, now the death penalty by law of the Imperial Japanese Army.

This is the only one incident in the Imperial Japanese Army of 10 million troops.

"Comfort women (professional prostitute: Professional Camp Followers)" Imperial Japanese Army's using is.

http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

”Sex Slave system” is a system of South Korea. Not in Japan.

South Korea Army had repeatedly rape as "Sex Slave", a woman of communist side captured by the Korean War.

http://img.hani.co.kr/imgdb/japan/news/resize/2013/1106/138373352169_20131106.jpg

Do you understand?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

@Masaki Miyamoto - The word 'comfort woman' is a euphemism. In this story it does not refer to 'prostitutes' but is the same as (what you consider different) 'sex slaves' . But what did or didn't happen during the Korean War has nothing to do with this topic.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Actually, China, Korea, and US has been quiet about this comfort women issue ever since Mid Jan 2014 when the Comfort Women Bill passed in US Senate.

Japan is the only one harping out loud on this issue after US criticized Japan over its anti-humanity stance. This really isn't a China or Korea issue. Its a humanity issue. And Japan seems to be the one who can't let go and kept on revisiting this subject that's already been etched in stone in the eyes from the rest of the world.

If you can't get on par with the rest of the world, then that's on you. No one pointed a gun on your head and force you to appoint ultra-right wing members onto public media and cabinet posts. The people who "mis-spoke" are the same ones that are your advisers, friends, colleagues and supporters whom shared Abe and LDP's POV and resolve.

The people from the same camp as the ones who shunned humanity can't came out unscathed as to simply proclaim that "we" regret and disagree. Because that's simply isn't the truth. These are your people on your aisle of the row whom you shared a bench with. There is no mistake here. These are your administration's stance and resolution.

With such disregard on humanity, the highest leader of a nation should come forth to address in person, live, and be absolutely firm without any possibility of ambiguity to condemn and reject the many aforementioned "gaffes".

Instead of such, a lowly FM came out whom as we all know has no power or influence in Japanese politics.

So, glass about empty again, its not even half full. Pathetic.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Guess the past is so shameful , just need to denie it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@highball7

Actually, China, Korea, and US has been quiet about this comfort women issue ever since Mid Jan 2014 when the Comfort Women Bill passed in US Senate.

The United States Supreme Court ,Fifteen people prostitutes of South Korea and China against the Japanese government Against class action claim for damages had been caused in the United States ,

February 21, 2006 , " Forced entrainment does not exist , the plaintiff is a prostitute , is resolved ," was with the ruling

This decision has become the final decision of justice related to this project in the United States.

Japan is the only one harping out loud on this issue after US criticized Japan over its anti-humanity stance. This really isn't a China or Korea issue. Its a humanity issue. And Japan seems to be the one who can't let go and kept on revisiting this subject that's already been etched in stone in the eyes from the rest of the world.

With "problem that does not exist" on the side of South Korea and Communist China, the United States should not blame the Japan.

If you can't get on par with the rest of the world, then that's on you. No one pointed a gun on your head and force you to appoint ultra-right wing members onto public media and cabinet posts. The people who " mis-spoke "are the same ones that are your advisers, friends, colleagues and supporters whom shared Abe and LDP's POV and resolve.

Liberal Democratic Party and Prime Minister Abe, will rebuild Japan.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

On this thread we have some people such as Masaki Miyamoto and CH3CH0 questioning and repudiating the comfort women issue.

I think part of the problem is that "questioning and repudiating" is the only thing that this type of person does.

They never themselves say what bad things they think Japan has done. They just react to what they perceive as "unjust accusations" from outside.

I have some Japanese acquaintances like this... they say the Nanking massacre never happened, the comfort women issue is a pack of lies, etc...

As a Brit, I think my country has, historically, done many bad things around the world... things I am personally ashamed of... things like the slave trade, brutal colonization campaigns in Africa and elsewhere, massacres in India such as the Jallianwalah Bagh massacre (I've been there), brutal campaigns of suppression against groups such as the Mau Mau in Kenya... the list goes on! I freely admit and accept those things and will discuss them openly with anyone. These things have been clearly identified and researched by British historians, as well as other historians around the world.

But for some Japanese people, all they can do is deny, deny, deny... they will never themselves identify anything that Japan has done that they personally think is bad or they are ashamed of.

They only react to other people.

The Japanese acquaintances I have mentioned above will deny Nanking and the comfort women, but will also sometimes make vague comments such as "Of course, Japan did bad things in Asia..."

However, when I ask them "Exactly what bad things did Japan do?" they will never identify any specific incidents. Maybe they don't know, maybe they just don't want to say...

So I think this is part of the problem...

In general, Japanese people themselves are very reluctant to identify what specific bad things Japan has done and thus they end up just reacting to other people.

For the posters on this thread such as Masaki Miyamoto and CH3CH0... ok, you don't accept the accusations about comfort women... well, are their any specific examples of atrocities committed by Japan that you do accept?

I'd like to hear about that from you....

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Sad when people deny what happened in the past even if some of the details are questioned but the overall story remains the same. Each new week, each new episode, it becomes more like something like "back to the future!"

8 ( +9 / -1 )

slowguy2Feb. 25, 2014 - 10:31AM JST OssanAmerica said: "Do you realize that those "recruiters" were Koreans? This was even in the testimonies given by surviving Comfort Women?" Trying to sneak past us the pretense that the recruiters were all Korean and therefore it must have been a purely >Korean operation, eh? Nice try, but it will not change the fact that even the Koreans were working for JAPANESE >bosses.

The only ones trying to "sneak past anyone" false information is the comfort women crowd. No one reads the actual testimony given by the women. No one considers that with 240,000 Korean men serving in the Imperial Japanese armed forces, AND MAKING USE OF THE COMFORT WOMEN, that they would keep serving if 200,000 of their wives, daughters and sisters were all getting kidnapped by Japanese soldiers. So by your argument the Koreans who deceived and recruited these comfort women and delivered them to the Japanese military are NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING? If you shoot my on orders from your boss, you are not guilty of murder by reason that you were following your bosses' orders? Kidnapping was a crime even in Colonial Korea, where the police were Koreans. This Korean attempt to absolve themselves of all responsibility is sickening and why the issue will never be resolved.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Why don't these officials just shut up, sit down and maintain silence? Standing up and spouting off is just causing more trouble. It's not worth the distraction from the modern issues.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

OssanAmerica, tinawatanabe, Masaki Miyamoto, CH3CHO, and some others.

How about if we take this case to the ICJ? Let them decide if the Comfort Women were paid prostitutes used only by Koreans, and that Japanese were the ones who were law abiding and guarding peace in Asia? If Japan loses, all members of the Japanese Diet must stand and bow in silence for 5 minutes inside the Diet, in memory of their victims. If South Korea loses, same thing, all South Korean parliamentarians bow in silence and apologize to Japan for all the wrongful charges.

Since you guys are strong proponents of the ICJ, I'm sure you will back this proposal.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

chucky3176Feb. 26, 2014 - 03:24AM JST OssanAmerica, tinawatanabe, Masaki Miyamoto, CH3CHO, and some others. How about if we take this case to the ICJ?

That is an excellent idea chucky. But do you really think that South Korea which has refused to expose itself to the jurisdiction of the ICJ in the Takeshima/Dokdo dispute would willingly do so over the Comfort Women issue?

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choiwaruoyajiFeb. 25, 2014 - 10:19PM JST

On this thread we have some people such as Masaki Miyamoto and CH3CH0 questioning and repudiating the comfort women issue.

Truth will prevail. Finding truth out of information filled with government propaganda is a hard work. But if you develop a habit of yielding to propaganda, the present day problems will also be carried out by propaganda, making democracy dysfunctional.

But for some Japanese people, all they can do is deny, deny, deny

I do not deny what happened. Do you understand my view on the comfort women issues?

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While they are revising the comfort women issue, please do not forget to rewrite the comfort women in Malaya and Singapore. Japan must not leave any trail whatsoever behind because even if there was only one comfort woman, Japan has to apologise. And that is embarrassing!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@CH3CHO

I do not deny what happened.

OK, but in this thread you are merely reacting to what is being said.

This is my point.

On WW2 issues, Japanese people are always just reacting to what is being said.

They rarely or never indicate any bad things that Japan has done , based on information from well-respected Japanese historians.

Japanese people just react to information from outside.

In my post, I gave a list of atrocities which I believe and accept were committed by my country (UK).

This is based on my reading of books written by British historians.

So this is what I would like to hear about... what atrocities do you think Japan has committed in WW2 or earlier, based on information from Japanese historians?

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Asian2013, I am afraid you miss the point of the dispute between Japan and Korea. The issue at hand is whether Koreans were drafted or abducted by Japanese for comfort women. Korean government insists they were drafted.

But look at the testimonies of Korean former comfort women. http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

page 20

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift without telling my mother. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of People's Army uniform with a combat cap.

page 32

My name is Koon Ja Kim. I was born in Pyongchang, Gangwon province in 1926. I became an orphan when I was 14 and I was placed in the home of Choi Chul Ji, a colonial police officer. As his "foster child," I cooked and cleaned for Mr. Choi. I remember the day that changed my life forever. It was March of 1942, and I was 16 years old. I had been sent out of the house by police officer Choi and told that I needed to go and make some money. I found a Korean man wearing a military uniform and he told me that he would send me on an errand and I would be paid for this errand. I followed him and he told me to board a train - a freight car. I did not know where I was going but I saw seven other young girls and another man in a military uniform on this freight train.

Were they drafted or abducted by Japanese Imperial Army?

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China last week cautioned against any bid to revisit the apology for what it called “Japanese militarism’s heinous anti-humanity crime.

Interesting, folks here are upset that Japan may revisit/revise an apology that was given in the past.

I have a question, most if not all the naysayers here have stated on more than one occasion that the 1993 apology and acknowledgement weren't real and were never accepted.

So, why should you folks complain that Japan is thinking about revising an apology that most of you folks claim was never real?

Before, you hoot and holler remember what you posted in the past never really goes away.

I await your reply with baited breath and wide eyes.

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I think Abe & Co is digging their own graves, hope the good Japanese commoners are not drag / or shame by their constant whinning of denials !!!

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choiwaruoyajiFeb. 26, 2014 - 11:11AM JST

On WW2 issues, Japanese people are always just reacting to what is being said.

The issue of comfort women was forgotten by Koreans untill 1980s when Japanese scholars and Japanese media brought it under spot light. That is why their biggest supporter group "Korean Council for the Women Drafted for Military Sexual Slavery by Japan" was established by Korean Government as late as 1990. http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1962763/Korean-Council-for-the-Women-Drafted-for-Military-Sexual-Slavery-by-Japan

The problem is that, though there was no record of draft and there was no testimony of draft by Korean former comfort women, they keep using the word "draft". What do you think? Were Korean women drafted or abducted by Japanese Imperial Army?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Well its not just the issue of the Comfort Women is it but also issues like the numbers of civilians killed, the Rape of Nanking, Unit 731, rape, POW's. There is a growing list of issues which leading figures in recent years have brought up again and again.

I guess in the the remaining short period of my life I won't see any end to the war?

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zichiFeb. 26, 2014 - 03:46PM JST

I guess in the the remaining short period of my life I won't see any end to the war?

I think that is why we need a fair and scientific review of disputed facts.

In fact, based on an agreement in 2001 between Korea and Japan, "Korea Japan joint history study committee" made up of historians was established. http://www.jkcf.or.jp/projects/kaigi/history/

The committee published a number of history studies on disputed areas ranging from ancient ages to modern history. The difference in opinions is still wide but it is good to have a venue for joint study and discussion. I think nothing but research can solve these problems.

-5 ( +2 / -8 )

@CH3CHO

Could you first answer the question in my post, please?

(If you do not want to answer or cannot answer... that's OK... but please say so clearly instead of just asking a question yourself)

Let me repeat...

I am a Brit. In regards to British history there are, I believe, many terrible things that Britain has done around the world. These include: the slave trade, brutal colonizations, the Jallianwalah Bagh massacre, the colonial period in Ireland, various atrocities during the American War of Independence... and many more....

I have learned about these things from British history books written by well-respected British historians who have researched and documented them.

I believe and accept these specific historic events and incidents. In my opinion, they are very shameful and regrettable parts of British history.

I want to ask you...

In a similar way, are there any atrocities that you believe have been committed by Japan (in WW2 or earlier)?

I am talking about things that you have learned from history books written by well-respected Japanese historians.

If there are any, please tell me specifically what they are...

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I am a Brit. In regards to British history there are, I believe, many terrible things that Britain has done around the world. These include: the slave trade, brutal colonizations, the Jallianwalah Bagh massacre, the colonial period in Ireland, various atrocities during the American War of Independence... and many more....

Wow, how many times are you going to post the same thing? I like the way you mention "brutal colonizations" in the middle of your list. Like the Brits didn't "colonize" (ie rape and pillage) literally dozens of countries in ways far worse, and for far longer, than Japan ever did.

If you're so sorry about what your ancestors did maybe go to a corner somewhere and reflect quietly upon it instead of making a mockery out of it with these repeated off topic posts.

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Kono must explain to the world how his speech was produced before the government considers its revision. One thing for sure is an over 6 feet tall documents careful review found no fact and any single evidence of abduction for sex slavery is clear except the case of Indonesia for Dutch women. In that case, why the original speech did not specify the name of country and which citizens became victims. The solders who committed that crime were also received a capital punishment under the military law. Rape, abduction, forceful sex slavery were crime then in the imperial army. If Kono clearly had stated then, Korea could not have capitalized on"some involvement of military" part in his speech to aply for the case of Korea. Japan has admitted existence of brothels from the beginning. How Japan has been dealing with showing Japan's responsibility humanity and moral level should be informed to the world as well with Asian women foundation. The most people have no knowledge about it, so Japan has never apologize and does nothing became the world understanding.

Why did the Kono speech produce so many gray zones? It has been used for the foundation of wrong accusation since he made that speech. When I hear the public opinions for this case, which blindly accept this wrong accusation usually also the public have no root of knowledge and fact. Japan needs to solve the issue politically besides the historical fact. We need to divide the moral issue and crime issue. Japan needs to work hard for this moral issue while Japan explains to the world that crime issue does not exist except the case of Indonesia. Japan must do more to resolve for the case of Indonesia. For Korea, Japan did too much. That has produced a wrong idea as if the testimony of former professional prostitutes were true. Japan has no more obligation to protect them since they accuse Japan with inaccurate information. Japan should released their statement if the based on the common sense, it those statement are trustworthy or not.

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South Korea: Japan didn't apologise! Japan: Ok, we'll revise the apology South Korea: No! don't revise the apology!

Oh, so there was an apology after all.

And this:

up to 200,000 women, mostly from Korea but also from China, Indonesia, the Philippines and Taiwan

And Japan.

The truth is that Korea does not want these women's statements to be re-examined because of what was held back by Japan in the 1993 statement: They were sold off as comfort women by their Korean families and by Korean recruiters/collaborators. This is not going to make Korea look good.

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