Island plans by Ishihara may stoke fresh China tensions

This GOVERNOR needs to be shown his place in the food chain! This GOVERNOR has no business making decisions that effect Japanese foreign policy and foreign relations. If Japan had REAL LEADERSHIP he'd be called into the foreign minister's office and told to shut up and confine his affairs to the management of Tokyo.

This guy is determined to start a war!

Someone has to stop this guy, it doesn't matter if its Japan's or China's or Taiwan's...

The situation has been unnecessarily escalated by him once already.

This guy seems determined to be the end of Japan as we know it, its time for Ishihara to go.

In the end, I think some Japanese need to accept that they lost the war. It's over guys. You lost. Forget these islands and be a great, peaceful country that doesn't seek fights with anyone.

Lady I spoke to yesterday lamented that Korean and China are attacking Japan, and even the US are with their Ospreys.

Next it will be Australia with the whaling. This them and us, poor Japan as victim mentality has to stop.

My theory is that the right wing politicians in Japan know they can't fix Japan. It's just too hard.

So instead their going the route of fighting with Korea and China - so at least they'll have a population directing their anger at China and not politicians.

So many seemingly peaceful Japanese now want a strong leader who can stand up to China - as if that's what Japan needs.

If anything, the Senkaku problem is ultimate proof that Japan is out of ideas and finished.

They had a huge natural disaster and had the sympathy of the world. Now, with the North still a wasteland, the country is raging about an Island so close to Taiwan and so far from Tokyo it's laughable.

It's like watching a sporting game when the losing team is down so far they just start throwing punches.

Could have been so different.

If PM Noda has any guts, he need to shut this guy down. There is no benefit of Japan esclating the problem.

Ishihara-san, please give me your address. I want to build a treehouse, and I hear you have a lovely tree in your back yard.

I know it's not my land to build on, but, what good for the goose and such.

This guy has been in the sun too long.

KariHaruka,

Well, "OUR (Japanese) islands" is still under dispute, but let's just imagine they are indeed Japan's islands.

I have some questions for you concerning the islands:

Now, can you justify spending all that money on the islands?

Do you believe that it's fair to spend even more money sending the coastguard to patrol in the waters?

Do you think that the islands are more important than issues like rehousing the evacuees from Fukushima?

Do they islands have any impact on your daily life whatsoever?

Is it worth the risk of damaging import/export/business relations with China?

Don't point all the blame at China; Ishihara is clearly making matters worse.

These islands are, and will continue to, costing the taxpayer a lot of money. Money that I honestly believe could be spent better and on more urgent matters.

If you believe that these islands are so important for Japan, and the money spent is justified, then the media brainwashing has worked and clouded your judgement.

What I find fascinating is how no one in Japan blames Ishihara for getting Japan into this pickle - not the public, not the media, not the politicians. This is a fine example of the culture of no blame and no responsibility. Wait, let me clarify that: as long as a Japanese person was to blame, then, of course, no blame can be apportioned and no one is responsible. If an outside person or country did something, then this fact should be dwelled upon and remembered for all eternity.

The thing that Japan and the Japanese don't realize is this: America is in full decline. They've got their hands more than full with their failing engagements in the Middle East and they're well aware that China holds more of their Treasury Bills than does Japan. So, America's not going to come sailing to their rescue when China gets violent about this.

After the war, In 1946, the SCAPIN677, the Allied Forces with approval of President Truman defined the boundaries between Japan and China as south of 29 degrees north latitude. The Senkaku/Daiyou island is located south of 30 degrees north latitude, which is outside of this area. China can use this SCAPIN677 document that states:"The definition of Japan contained in this directive shall also apply to all future directives." Whick means that definition of peace treaty for the future borders dispute is defined on this 1946 SCAPIN document.

Typical of a nationalist to load the gun for others to shoot.

He's no doubt loving every minute of this and is too pig-headed to realise how bad this could become...or maybe he doesn't care, because neither him nor his pretty boy son would be on the front line.

And, what's he done with the money from donations for these islands?

This one guy is going to be the death of Japan, he is so old he doesn't care

"They claim that construction of a lighthouse, radio transmitter or basic harbor facilities would increase safety for Japanese fishermen. It was not clear how—or even whether—such private funds could be used for construction on government property."

Of course not! He'll use public funds for his own personal vendetta. If they're not HIS islands, what right does he have to decide to build things there, anyway? Lock the guy up already!

If a lighthouse is built, make sure it's manned by Ishihara and all his cronies.

Ishihara would do well to remember the Tokyo War Criminal trials. A "Class A" criminal was defined as someone who committed "crimes against peace", whether or not they'd put on a helmet and gone out and bayoneted civilians was irrelevant. Seems to me he's already heading the same way....

@gokai_wo_maneku: I don't think for a second that Ishihara is doing this for war profits, and I certainly don't think he's doing it so American companies can make a profit of war materials. If a hot war breaks out between China and Japan, Japan is just going to get creamed, and there's no profit in that. Ishihara is not hard to understand at all, and one does not need to go searching for hidden ulterior motives: he's a run-of-the-mill nationalist who simply can't accept the fact that Japan lost the war, and he's hoping that the country can regain some of its former glory, despite the fact that it's a radically different world from the 1930s and Japan is a much weaker country (populated largely by old people and effete young people).

@Sir_Ivan_coughaheckuvalot: I agree that someone must tell Ishihara to shut up and stop sticking his nose into foreign policy. But, let's not forget that we're talking about Japan. Don't forget Karel van Wolferen's famous observation that Japan has no steering wheel. Just who in Japan could possibly stand up and take responsibility and tell the old geezer to put a lid on it? The country has no real leaders. Can you imagine the emperor intervening? No, this is not like Thailand, where the King has actually called different factions onto the carpet and knocked their heads together. Can you imagine one of the interchangeable prime ministers telling him to can it? Or, even more unlikely, can you imagine a major newspaper running an editorial to this effect? Japan is just not that kind of country. No one is effectively in charge. Japan's total failure to own up to its wartime history is not the example that sent the message to the country that no one should ever take responsibility for anything. The failure to own up to its war crimes was more an example of a deeper and older tendency for no one to ever take responsibility for anything.

And, at the end of the day, the fact is this: Ishihara speaks for a lot of Japanese. There's no doubt that the entire LDP supports him, and a huge segment of the population does too. Get used to it: Japan is embarking on another nationalist swing and the results will probably turn out just like they did last time: with Japan in a world of hurt.

OK, the government can take measures surely to head off this move by Ishihara... It is government land, and not privately-owned. Surely, the Government can pass laws forbidding construction or development on this land. Then again, laws have never really carried much weight. Whatever, someone needs to clip Ishihara's wings.

Am so happy that foreigners do not make internal policy decisions within Japan.

I would be happy if Japanese politicians COULD make coherent policy decisions. The ideas that many of the "foreigners" have would benefit Japan greatly, but since it comes from a foreigner Japan won't listen. Sad but true!

"We the children of the Ryukyu Kingdom. Am so happy that foreigners do not make internal policy decisions within Japan."

This will sound really bad Yuri..... but actually Japan would be do much better if foreigners DID make your policy decisions.

If you think about it, from what I read of Okinawan history there'd be a lot more of you "children of the Ryukyu Kindom" alive today if the wartime cabinet were made of foreigners.

btw, from my study of Ryukyu history, you guys were better off when you related more to the Chinese than after the Japanese took you over.

But that's a topic for another day.

Anyway, I've lost confidence in Japanese running Japan. The last time Japan started throwing punches it didn't end well. Everyone loved a peaceful Japan.

This unpleasant little man could get people killed.

Patrick, I wish the people that actually voted for him would possibly read your post and understand it as he is a very dangerous, selfish and horrible person.. the sad thing is the vast majority probably don't know what a URL is, have never left Japan and only ever voted for him because he was a qausi-celeb many years ago.

We need to be assertive of our claim. To do this make facilities and have them operated by the Okinawa government. We the children of the Ryukyu Kingdom. Am so happy that foreigners do not make internal policy decisions within Japan.

Um, the Ryukyu Kingdom no longer exists because... of Japan. If anyone should be aware of what happens when Japan makes island claims, it should be you. And assertive? Right, so you can call in the US to fight your battles while you sit thousands of miles away in safety?

Ishihara-san, why are you still around?

It seems a lot of the neo-Nazi nationalists feel a good war might fix the economy, at least until after their pitiful lives have ended. I doubt they care about the future after that.

As popular as Ishihara is with the general public -- of which even many younger people carry strong but hidden nationalist sentiment -- I'm surprised that the huge companies who stand to lose a fortune from all the unrest in China and drying up of trade do not pool their resources to ensure this guy is voted out of office.

Or maybe just build him a nice beach condo on one of the islands and stick him out there to tend to the goats. ;)

The Japanese government can't and won't do anything because there are many japanese politician supports these type of actions.

@Patric Smash, I doubt that most people in Tokyo realize what a screwjob Ishihara is. It is just that Tokyo people hate the LDP so much, he was a elected as protest candidate. And his brother is a much loved actor (Ishihara used to write scripts for his movies). Maybe Tokyo people will finally start realizing what he stands for besides "not LDP", like people in US only want "not Obama".

I guess he picked a wrong time to go senile

Ishihara needs to have it explained to him, in no uncertain terms, that as a local governor, he has no involvement in foreign policy, that he is to keep his opinions to himself on matters of diplomacy and that if he wants anything more to do with the islands he can start swimming.

Our islands we can do what we like with them!

Kari, since when did you become Japanese? You want a war? It seems so by your comments. China vs Japan won't be pretty and your beloved Japan will be a mess after if/when it happens. Will you be sticking around or heading back to your home country?

@Ivan

Probie - I think we all know why, don't we? The money went the same way as the ShinGinko Tokyo capital and the last failed Olympic fund.

Yeah, I know ;) I'm just amazed that no-one seems to say anything about his thievery and they just keep re-electing him despite him being a crooked Nazi tw@.

OkinawamikeOct. 05, 2012 - 07:43AM JST Ishihara-san, please give me your address. I want to build a treehouse, and I hear you have a lovely tree in your back yard. I know it's not my land to build on, but, what good for the goose and such.

Here's his business address. Why don't you go build your tree house there? 東京都　163-8001　東京新宿区西新宿2-8-1

For all those who are unhappy with any of Governor Ishihara policies, you can go to the Tokyo Metropolitan Government's website and make your feelings known. Just complete the form.

https://cgi.metro.tokyo.jp/cgibin/cgi-bin/fmail_input_disp.cgi?dep_id=ts02&scr_id=f001&lang_opt=00

Now if you're not into filling out forms or your preferred "weapons of choice" are email, faxes or phone calls, then: 知事本局総務部課　（広報担当）TEL 03-5388-2115　 　FAX 03-5388-1213

ml-chijihon-soumu@section.metro.tokyo.jp

Power to the people.

Remember, the same thing is happening in Phillipines. Coincidence?

YuriOtani, whether China is red or bule or in whatever color, it does not change the fact most Chinese people rightfully hate Japan. You are fooling yourself if you just use the lame excuse that China is red and therefore blah blah blah.

Your ancestors gambled a big time more than a hundred years ago that they could beat China and they succeeded. Good for them! However, this gave many Japanese a false sense of superiority against China. Every country goes up and down through the history, and China was at an absolutely low point when they were defeated by the Japanese. You could succeed again this time, with all the superior weapons as you mentioned, but mark my words you would be simply begging for more hatred and hostilities in the future. Great countries like China eventually will rebound, just like it has done in its thousands of years of history. By then revenge will be taken and only by then will the Japanese people truly regret about all the atrocities that they and their ancestors have brought to the Chinese people. You can mark my words on that!

Doesn't he need authorization of some kind, like a building permit, purchase agreement? Can anyone just stake a claim and do whatever they want?

Oh, sorry...I forgot...this is Japan.

S

There will come a certain point at which J-people will realize this is going way too far. So far for many the dispute has pretty much been fire on the opposite shore, but people have nonetheless in the course of these developments become fully aware of the rather complicated implications such provocations have on the situation in China and the J-businesses therein. The need to avoid being perceived as submission to the threats from China and the need to drive a wedge in their expansionism can be understood to some degree, but one would still question the significance of pursuing these initiatives now, especially when the C-economy is slowing presumably leading to greater frustration on the part of the C-people, and most importantly, at a time when Japan has its own domestic issues of far greater importance (clearly more important than choosing now to set up small lighthouses and harbors on these rocks) to tackle. If these things continue and Abe/Ishiba show any indication of possibly jumping on this reckless and imprudent (in my view) bandwagon, Noda may ironically have a chance in extending the life of his cabinet which may have otherwise ended in no more 6 months. All in all hope and trust the J-people (and the US) will not allow any more of this.

Akiko Santo, a member of the House of Councillors from the LDP, said Ishihara would try to win support from a new government to use about 1.8 billion yen he has raised from contributors to build some basic infrastructure on the islands. Ishihara’s deputy, Naoki Inose, has confirmed the plan.

Wait wait wait! Is that the same 1.8 billion he got from people contributing to his plan to buy the islands? If it is, the real question is, not what he plans to build on the island; but why he didn't return the donated money when the islands were bought by the country???

nigelboy Oct. 05, 2012 - 09:26AM JST The donated funds which was earmarked for the purchase should naturally be utilized for development. This is a no brainer for many Okinawa fishermen have on numerous occasions reiterated their concerns in regards to fishing in that area. The increase and easier acsess by JCG within the area is therefore necessary for their livelihood.

Are you on Ishihara's payroll? Does Japan really want to esclate the problem to a military confrontation?

I remember that at the memorial ceremony held at Hiroshima in August, there were two school kids giving a speech on 'PEACE'. When can we learn from the past?? I'm a HK Chinese married to a Japanese. I am truly sad to see Japanese people being beaten up in China because of some Islands... Please stop creating conflicts, u government people!!!><

Ishihara is planning to give the money to his black-van mates or family members. He should give it to the government to help out with the cost of purchasing the islands, but he won't. The man is a crook.

@lucabrasi I'd like to see a source for number 6.

Using the word "slaughter" might have been taking it a bit too far, but I think this is what Patrick Smash was referring to:

(From NY Times, April 11, 2000) ''Atrocious crimes have been committed again and again by sangokujin and other foreigners,'' Mr. Ishihara said over the weekend at a ceremony of the Ground Self-Defense Force, the Japanese equivalent of an army. ''We can expect them to riot in the event of a disastrous earthquake.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/11/world/tokyo-chief-starts-new-furor-on-immigrants.html

Building unnecessary structures on these rocks and thereby unnecessarily antagonising the communist government of a country armed with nuclear weapons is courting disaster. Why would the leader of a large metropolitan want to court suicide for his citizens like this?

On the one hand, one great failure of the Noda regime is that he cannot do something so simple as to smash Ishihara. On the other hand, when the LDP wins the next election, Ishihara will have a big voice, at least through his pretty boy son. Either way, it looks like war. Probably a good time to move out of Tokyo. How about to some obscure island in the China sea?

@Patrick

Thanks for the info. : )

Will you? Or will you be sticking around just so you can moan and criticize a country you obviously hate?

If Japan goes to war you can bet your bottom dollar I am packing up and heading away. Why on earth would I stay? It isn't my country. And my husband has already said he's coming with me as he thinks this is all BS as well. You think staying will solve anything? You think that the locals will help you if things get out of hand? Reality check. Ishihara has made comments about earthquakes, you think he'd have a change of heart in the event of a war?

And no, not hate. Just sick and tired of a corrupt government and a public that are nothing put mere sheeple for the most part.

Ishihara is a nutcase and I think he is also now delusional. He is a disgrace to Golyo, and Japan. While he remains in power, Tokyo and Jaan have surely no chance of hosting the Olympics in 2020. Time for him to go to the nearest rojin home or better still, time for the men in white coats to come and take him away to hwere he can no longer be a threat to world peace. He and his ilk belong in the history books. I. Fact, he should just be locked up somewhe and forgotten as a bad memory. He has nothing to offer Tokyo, nor Japan. Fascism is a failed philosophy.

Send this muppet Ishihara to live on fraggle rock, I say.

Why not he just build a Peace Park in Tokyo. let the Japanese, Chinese, and all walk of life lives in peace instead of tension and perhaps war. This is a wonderful world, Mr Ishihara. Wonderful world. And your LEGACY as a man of PEACE.

If they were bought and controlled by Tokyo. Since the country bought them, and they are part of Okinawa, how can the governor of Tokyo be allowed to spend money on developing them?

One of the islands is owned by Tokyo the rest are owned by Japan.

TOKYO - Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, a fiery megalomaniac

Fixed

After the war, In 1946, the SCAPIN677, the Allied Forces with approval of President Truman defined the boundaries between Japan and China as south of 29 degrees north latitude. The Senkaku/Daiyou island is located south of 30 degrees north latitude, which is outside of this area.

Yes, the Diaoyu islands were not considered part of Japanese territories under both SCAPIN 667 and the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

According to China's white paper, it was not General MacArthur who stole the islands from China but Major General David Ogden, the Deputy Governor of the military government of Ryukyu.

Even though the Diaoyu islands weren't part of the territories assigned to the military government of Ryukyu under the San Francisco Peace Treaty, Major General David Ogden, the Deputy Governor of the military government issued an instruction called Civil Administration Proclamation No. 27 on the Christmas day of 1953 and annexed the Diaoyu islands as part of Ryukyu.

From Civil Administration Proclamation No. 27,

"I, DAVID A. D. OGDEN, Major General, United States Army, Deputy Governor of The Ryukyu Islands, do hereby proclaim:

Article I

The territorial Jurisdiction of the United States Civil Administration of the Ryukyu Islands, and the Government of the Ryukyu Islands are redesignated as all of those islands, islets, atolls and rocks and territorial waters within the following geographic boundaries:

28 North Latitude, 124.40' East Longitude; thence

24 North Latitude, 122 East Longitude; thence

24 North Latitude, 133 East, Longitude; thence

27 North Latitude, 131.50’ East Longitude; thence

27 North Latitude, 128.18’ East Longitude; thence

28 North Latitude, 128.18’ East Longitude; thence

to the point of origin."

Since the Diaoyu islands are located in latitude 25° 40' to 26° 00' N and longitude 123° 25' to 124° 45' E, they became part of the Ryukyus under this instruction.

However, this instruction of Major General David Ogden was never disclosed to China or Taiwan and neither did the military government of Ryukyu stop Chinese/ Taiwanese fishermen from coming to the Diaoyu islands after their silent annexation.

That explains why both China and Taiwan were shocked when the US government announced the reversion of the Diaoyu islands to Japanese administration in 1970.

Source:

http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/caproc27.html

http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/sgfyrth/t974790.htm

The future of Japan looks bleak indeed with 'leaders' like Ishihara in government office and the millions they have managed to 'inspire'.

For those who do not know, there is a light becon on Senkaku(Uotsuri Jima) that was built by Nihon Seinensha in 1978 renewed by the same group in 1988 and a second light becon built in 1996 again by the same group which is still operating.

I don't remember any large disturbance then so what is the big hasle now?

Ishihara is a dangerous and stupid man.

I'm guessing China will be administering these rocks within 10 years.

This deluded old buffoon must be stopped. Where is the leadership in this country?

Yep and you sound just like the person to do so. Time for you to stop making all of your "Come on, then!, Come on, then!" posts and make this country (and the whole world) a better place for us all.

Ishihara needs to have it explained to him, in no uncertain terms, that as a local governor, he has no involvement in foreign policy, that he is to keep his opinions to himself on matters of diplomacy and that if he wants anything more to do with the islands he can start swimming.

Here's you big chance. You can go to the Tokyo Metropolitan Government's website and make your feelings known. Just complete the form.

https://cgi.metro.tokyo.jp/cgibin/cgi-bin/fmail_input_disp.cgi?dep_id=ts02&scr_id=f001&lang_opt=00

Now if you're not into filling out forms or your preferred email, faxes or phone calls, then: 知事本局総務部課　（広報担当）TEL 03-5388-2115　 　FAX 03-5388-1213

ml-chijihon-soumu@section.metro.tokyo.jp

What's holding you back?

Frank Rizzo - you, sir, are a scholar.

It's been over 70 years since WWII, and still it's not so much forgetfulness as parochialism. China and neighboring countries were victims when they were technologically, economically and militarily weak so in order to not be victims again they are becoming technologically, economically and militarily strong. Naturally this increases the chances of conflict and ignores the lessons from Europe and Pacific Wars but ultimately these countries are prioritizing the lessons of their own histories rather than those of a far off part of the world. I don't think that they can be blamed for this and that the expectation that all will let their actions be dictated by the World Wars is a form of euro-centrism. Rather than constantly complain about this trend I think that all countries need to accept these realities and only then can we create a stable foundation for a peaceful resolution. The problems in the East and South China Sea are just as much the fault of historical baggage as they are of interests.

@Chubaka

MasterBape and Yasukuni have eloquently stated the views of many Americans on this growing conflict.

Don't kid yourself. China has few friends in America and other developed nations. Actually I think we could name their "friends" on one finger.

Travel around the world today and you can see the influence of China as prevalent as America

A laughable statement considering the reach of American culture and technology. The only Chinese influence I see when I travel are the three little words "made in China" on cheap knockoff products. Is that anything to be proud of?

I was visiting universities in Netherlands this summer and saw relatively few Japanese students, but thousands of adult Chinese student professionals eagerly learning, sharing and building relationships while in Europe.

What a weak argument. Of course there are going to be hordes of Chinese (many of them illegal) everywhere you go. Check the world population figures for a clue as to why there might be more Chinese around the world than there are Japanese. Then factor in things like the miserable living conditions in China and repressive government policies controlling the freedoms of their citizens to do things like attend a good university, access the internet, have a child, move across country etc etc.

Compared to China, Japan is a paradise for its citizens. They have no need to flee abroad in order to enjoy a decent, stable life and raise their families in peace. Furthermore, the Japanese have shown the ability to actually develop technologies of their own and/or improve on technology imported from Western countries years ago. By contrast, China has shown no such ability and the number of patent infringement cases against Chinese firms is staggering. I'm sure a quick Google search will show you that there have been a shameful number of cases of Chinese conducting corporate espionage in Western countries ... perhaps that is what you mean when you refer to the Chinese "sharing and building relationships in Europe" ?

The road to war is paved through Japan's schools. We can expect the current and especially future generations of Japanese students to be once more indoctrinated in Imperial nationalism as soon as Abe returns to power.

Right. Because we all know that the schools in China are free from any indoctrination and propaganda. If you are going to hold Japan to such a severe standard then do us the courtesy of applying the same standards to the Chinese please. ffs the Chinese can't even keep their propaganda out of the newspapers and off the streets .... do you honestly believe that the education system in Japan is the problem here?

Those of us who read JT on a regular basis do so because we know and love Japan's wonderful culture and her kind people. But we also know her history. That is why this course of events is so painful to watch....

I know Chin's history too. Nothing much to be proud of there. As for "painful" .... the most painful thing to see is people who "know and love" Japan's wonderful culture coming on to JT to apologize for the communist Chinese behavior.

As much as I dislike Ishihara for his anti-foreigner sentiments, from a Japanese terrirtorial and protectionist point of view this may not be such a bad thing to do. The Chinese have done so much in the Philippines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischief_Reef

The Philippine government calls what China has done "creeping invasion".

Perhaps Ishihara's plan is premature, however one has to think the Chinese have a similar plan.

OssanAmerica Oct. 05, 2012 - 08:55AM JST Howvever, the reason for the J-Govt's purchase is missed entirely by China who, instead of recognizing that the J-Govt made an effort to not escalate the issue, insteads has used the purchse as a reason to escalte the issue far beyond what the islands warrant. So now, I say go ahead and build on them. Clearly China cannot appreciate any effort to take their position into account, so Japoan has nothing to lose.

What effort has Japan done? What a mess for your J-goverment. It's very hard to understand the Japan government’s domestic actions with its bilateral commitments after the fishing trawler incident, followed by senile Ishihara's actions. Not only were the legalities of the 1997 Japan-China fisheries agreement in regards to effective high seas jurisdiction violated by Japan but the broader, commonly agreed principle building separation between territorial and fisheries issues in the East China Sea was unilaterally re-interpreted and Japan keeps instigating the problem.

If PM Noda has any guts, he need to shut this guy down. There is no benefit of Japan esclating the problem.

Yeah right. You try shutting this nutcase down. Not only is he outspoken, he is hugely popular. Japanese people like strong controversial leaders even if they are completely idiotic and obnoxious like Ishihara.

I think it's time to get a contract out on this guy.

^ Coudn't have said it better !

I was refering to MasterBape's post.

China is clearly stretching its muscles and testing the waters as it were diplomatically and possibly militarily too, everyone should be watching and monitoring carefully. The world can't afford another world war powered on unrestrained nationalism and expansionism, however Ishihara, almost single handedly, is adding totally uncalled for and dangerous fuel to the fire.

The answer should be on this issue for now, leave everything as it was, for nearly 100yrs these islands were more or less a non-issue, make an agreement on no building or development, Japan continues to monitor them as it has for the better part of 50 years and punishes Japanese landings and so on the same as other countries.

One thing I do have an issue with is the reference as it being so far from Tokyo, yes its far from Ishihara and Tokyo City Government and he should stay out of it, but if you are talking Tokyo as in the Government of Japan thats a different story. These trouble making rocks are not very far from Ishigaki which is absolutely Japanese Territory, so more or less equal distance between Taiwanese and Japanese territory.

On top of this how far back can land claims go? Perhaps the Mongols want China back?

Im on no side just pointing out this issue is full of unclear and potentially difficult to prove claims.

Japan internally has so many issues which the window for reprieves is quickly closing, I do wish that people were a lot more up to speed with the issues that will effect this country over the next 100yrs rather than buying into this flash in a pan political football rubbish.

The donated funds which was earmarked for the purchase should naturally be utilized for development.

Why should they "naturally be utilized for development"? They were donated to pay for buying the islands, not developing them. So, when the country bought them, Ishihara should have given the money back. It's not his personal pocket money to do with as he pleases.

It's because the original intention was to not only purchase but to develop them as well.

If they were bought and controlled by Tokyo. Since the country bought them, and they are part of Okinawa, how can the governor of Tokyo be allowed to spend money on developing them?

If they were bought and controlled by Tokyo. Since the country bought them, and they are part of Okinawa, how can the governor of Tokyo be allowed to spend money on developing them?

That all depends on the decision of the up and coming new cabinet. Certainly better than using tax money for said improvements, me thinks.

@Patrick

While I agree completely with the tone of your post above, I'd like to see a source for number 6. I know the guy's said some weird stuff, but I've never heard that one before. "Slaughter"? Really?

Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, a fiery nationalist whose failed bid to buy a group of disputed islands ignited a crisis with China, is pushing ahead with a plan to build structures there to hammer home Japan’s claim, officials involved told Reuters.

What? Does he think it's a PC strategy game or something?

@sfjp330 you expect people to abide by some rules laid down in a totally different situation by foreign nations 70 years ago ? You don't even have to be a nationalist (which i'm definitely not here) to see where that goes wrong since the world is ever changing. That would be like asking me to be responsible for what our former and first kings did in the colonial era in Congo. I ain't got nothing to do with that, but my life is now and the reality we face is that of today. Things like that never last. But, i sincerely hope the situation does not escalate into an actual shooting war, if i believed in gods that cared my prayers would be overthere :)

@Frank Rizzo, maybe Ishihara's goal is to whip those effete guys into shape. Besides war pays! Especially for the US, which is the world's arm supplier. The arms company owners (most of the 1%ers) will become even more obscenely rich off this coming war. It will happen! Better head for the hills! It is in everyone's interest that it does happen.

why he didn't return the donated money when the islands were bought by the country???

Probie - I think we all know why, don't we? The money went the same way as the ShinGinko Tokyo capital and the last failed Olympic fund.

Please stop repeating yourself.

[why he didn't return the donated money when the islands were bought by the country???}

Common sense. "Easy earned Self-Rewarded. No Return, No Explanation".......

Very brave indeed. He must be enjoying PR war on 3 fronts: Russia, S Korea, China/Taiwan.

Since when did a purchase of a land owned by a Japanese national become a foreign policy? If we take that stupid argument, Kurihara himself authorized to decide Japan's foreign policy by agreeing to sell his property to the central government which lead to this irrational behavior by China.

Again, this is a classic example of some people just accept the irrationality of China as a given.

MasterBape and Yasukuni have eloquently stated the views of many Americans on this growing conflict. Unfortunately the wicked old nationalists who are egging on this conflict with their north Asian neighbors will not be around in a decade to reap the whirlwind. Right or wrong, the power of China nowadays extends far beyond the need for strong relations with Japan. Travel around the world today and you can see the influence of China as prevalent as America

Technology and markets are available around the world and China has taken full advantage of this. I was visiting universities in Netherlands this summer and saw relatively few Japanese students, but thousands of adult Chinese student professionals eagerly learning, sharing and building relationships while in Europe. China does not need Japan in order to maintain prosperity.

Militarily, the US is war-weary and I believe is presently more concerned about protecting Japan from itself, e.g. prideful nationalists. The road to war is paved through Japan's schools. We can expect the current and especially future generations of Japanese students to be once more indoctrinated in Imperial nationalism as soon as Abe returns to power. Those of us who read JT on a regular basis do so because we know and love Japan's wonderful culture and her kind people. But we also know her history. That is why this course of events is so painful to watch....

@Ivan, actually you are wrong, it started quite a bit further back, research it and you will see. You are just more aware of it now due to current events.

**Tmarie, the Ryukyu Kingdom while gone is our legacy and who we are as a people.

It is China that is causing the problem sending ships into our waters. They are making the confrontations and not Japan. They are looking for excuses for the short victorious war.**

You really don't get it do you? They, they, they... to your islands a few decades ago "they" were the enemy. It's like you have Stockholm syndrome and just don't get it. Get bleating on about being strong and then turning around and demanding the US defend you. Ishihara is a nut and is causing serious problems for your country - get it yet?

Ivan I second that about Frank Rizzo. btw, I recommend anyone living in Japan to read Karel van Wolferen. Also reading Ishihara's book is worth it too. Both pretty dated, but interesting to read and see when they were written and how things are turning out now.

Japan Can build a Missile silo in Senkaku for what I care. Chinese should go into their factories and build cheap goods like they always do.

you don't really mean that right, underchan?

Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, a fiery nationalist whose failed bid to buy a group of disputed islands ignited a crisis with China, is pushing ahead with a plan to build structures there to hammer home Japan's claim...

That's what happens when you send vessels with reinforced bows that repeatedly ram Japanese coast guard ships. Meanwhile, the USS George Washington is in the East China Sea and the USS John C. Stennis is in the South China Sea. Although the US states that it doesn't take sides in territorial disputes, by deploying these aircraft carrier battle groups the US is in fact sending a not so subtle message to the Chinese that the US will not tolerate any Chinese military aggression. Ishihara likely feels that with the US acting as a quasi police force in the region, he can go ahead with his plan to build structures on the Senkaku Islands.

Probie,

It's because the original intention was to not only purchase but to develop them as well.

Sfjp330

Lame response. The better question is does China really want to escalate to a point where they want to further strengthen the U,S. -Japan Alliance, dramatically change the Japanese public view in regards to amending the Article 9 , as well as face a possible embarrassing defeat?

Japan is playing with fire!!!! Chinese are very emotional about this issue and any further action by the Japanese government to establish a "lighthouse" on the island will push the Chinese people to the breaking point of war..If the Japanese government is hoping that the US will come to their aid for the war that Japanese will start, I think the Japanese government is crazy..In the US, news media are siding with the Chinese and are blaming Japan for the rising tension in the area..

What if there is a war over these islands and even if US comes to help..The Japanese people are the ones who will suffer..Do you think the US warships and missile defense systems can prevent missiles from landing on Japan and Japanese Nuclear reactors and etc..Japan wake up and smell the coffee before your leaders take you to another war that Japan cannot win.

While agreeing with many here critical of the continued provocative attempts by Ishihara, also surprised and feel quite uncomfortable seeing those trying to explain the situation within the context of their stereotypical views of the Japanese in general. Would even go so far as to say both may be no different in the degree of misguided conviction if not fanaticism which drives them. Important to understand there are many (as evidenced by the amount of donation) who support Ishihara in what he has been doing thusfar, while most of the others who do not take an openly supportive position on this (due to limited knowledge) would still carry an unfavorable impression if not resentment towards China (as evidenced by survey results in the past couple of years in excess of 70%) which has clearly increased through the recent series of events. Most of them would probably agree that regardless of the complications of the issue at hand, there can be no justification whatsoever of everything that has taken place in China (which has clearly left a very strong impression) and can be in no comparison with the original act of Ishihara which was essentially a call for public donations to pursue a contractual purchase from the private owner, in itself liable to criticism, but by no means accompanied by violent or destructive bahavior. All in all while personally hoping to see more criticism raised against Ishihara or any relevant overly rightist and imprudent actions to be possibly pursued by others incl Abe/Ishiba under the gradually shared acknowledgment that things may perhaps be going way too far, would nonetheless suggest we also don't go too far with our assertions either and leave our criticism at that.

he is free to think , free to address his ... , and others are free to ignore . it seems like he is insulted , im sry if he is not

If agree that these islands belong to China, believe me, they belong to China. There are some things I can not explain here because the appointed time has not arrived yet. But, you can Mr. Kiyoshi Inoue, in his book Senkaku Retto, can tell you that. See more at: http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/diaohist.html Also professor Tadayoshi Murata of Yokohama University published Senkaku Islands vs. Diaoyu Islands dispute and supports china's ownership since the Ming Dynasty.

These two gentlemen are learned japanese who did not follow their emotions but went by historical evidence and facts. Something Ishihara and the Japanese government do not want to understanding like a spoiled little kid. Guru29, great work. Some people will understand in the end. There has been a lot of deceptions and lies in all the dealings and treaties, specially when nations are vulnerable and weak.

What I see in many of these posts are that people are under the accepted premise that China and her population are in fact childish and irrational and that it's the job of Japan to adjust and cater as to not trigger their behavior.

Many took offense when Ishihara stated that Chinese were "uncivilized" (民度が低い」in 2004 during the Asian Soccer in China with their unruly behavior. Well, it turns out that he was right all along as evidenced by the recent looting and chaos.

@iasia - with sincere gratitude, I sent my first email about 5pm yesterday. Many, many thanks for your invaluable help.

Anybody else want to get stuck in?

It is very simple. China is using very low level very basic tactics...they move aggressively in a passive aggressive way...they make big outrageous claims and then dare anyone to call them on it. So they try to set themselves up as "owning" territory by just making a claim and then threatening the use of force to support these invalid claims. They are doing it all over the Pacific rim and hope eventually people will get so tired of dealing with this tactic that they can sail in and take control by default.

Japan is the first party to stand up to them and is doing it well, slowly and with candor and caution and respect. It is a response that China has no counter to. So basically China has already lost but they are too dumb to realize it. Please just lets get on with the real challenges of the modern world and stop this nonsense, Peking. Enough is enough.

Outrageous claims by China? What about the claim of "terra nullis" by Japan even after their government noticed before the annexation that the islands had Chinese names?

nigelboyOct. 05, 2012 - 09:37AM JST It's because the original intention was to not only purchase but to develop them as well.

Bigboy, Go ahead and devlop it and see what happens. I told you so.

This guy should just make a museum to the 200 people that lived on these Japanese islands from 1900s to the war. The old factory should still be around if the bombs didn't get to it.

@tmarie

Our islands we can do what we like with them!

Kari, since when did you become Japanese? You want a war? It seems so by your comments. China vs Japan won't be pretty and your beloved Japan will be a mess after if/when it happens. Will you be sticking around or heading back to your home country?

Will you? Or will you be sticking around just so you can moan and criticize a country you obviously hate?

Everyone forgets we are talking about China here. Ask any of their neighbors, they will tell you the true face of PRC. Don't lurk all day in JT, it is no good. Ishihara went over board, but it's necessary to protect Japan's territory. Ask Vietnam, Philippines, Mongolia etc., yielding to China and what, their lands were taken bit by bit every day, every year. Someone must stop PRC's greed, otherwise, one day they will claim the whole world to be Chinese soil.

m&musa my ancestors did nothing to China. Am from Okinawa and my ancestors were fishermen and farmers. Do not feel Japan defeated China. Japan lost 500,000 military dead in the failed invasion. Add another 1,000,000 plus sicked and wounded. I do understand the brutality of the Japanese soldiers. The difference is while we have not forgotten have forgiven the Japanese.

As far as I know, PRC is only seeking to settle the case through negotiation, so that black mails, mud, eggs etc can be thrown in private space. Why the hell are people talking about? Do they mean PR war?

Ishihara is playing with fire. I hope the central government of Japan and the people of Tokyo come to their senses and put the brakes on this nutcase.

As an aside, the Economist in its article "Could Asia really go to war over these?" (September 22, 2012) had this to say about "the parallels between China's rise and that of imperial Germany" pre-WWII:

"

Back [in the 1930s] nobody in Europe had an economic interest in conflict; but Germany felt that the world was too slow to accommodate its growing power, and crude, irrational passions like nationalism took hold. China is re-emerging after what it sees as 150 years of humiliation, surrounded by anxious neighbours, many of them allied to America. In that context, disputes about clumps of rock could become as significant as the assassination of an archduke.

"

After the war, In 1946, the SCAPIN677, the Allied Forces with approval of President Truman defined the boundaries between Japan and China as south of 29 degrees north latitude. The Senkaku/Daiyou island is located south of 30 degrees north latitude, which is outside of this area. China can use this SCAPIN677 document that states:"The definition of Japan contained in this directive shall also apply to all future directives." Whick means that definition of peace treaty for the future borders dispute is defined on this 1946 SCAPIN document.

Lame. This was already addressed and promptly defeated in another article in which the directives were already nullified by the ratified treaty.

The donated funds which was earmarked for the purchase should naturally be utilized for development. This is a no brainer for many Okinawa fishermen have on numerous occasions reiterated their concerns in regards to fishing in that area. The increase and easier acsess by JCG within the area is therefore necessary for their livelihood.

sfjp330Oct. 05, 2012 - 09:05AM JST

O"sanAmerica Oct. 05, 2012 - 08:55AM JST Howvever, the reason for the J-Govt's purchase is missed entirely by China who, instead of recognizing that the J-Govt made an effort to not escalate the issue, insteads has used the purchse as a reason to escalte the issue far beyond what the islands warrant. So now, I say go ahead and build on them. Clearly China cannot appreciate any effort to take their position into account, so Japoan has nothing to lose."

What effort has Japan done? What a mess for your J-goverment.

The J-govt is not MY govt sfsk. I have explained the effort they made very clearly. It turned into a mess instead because China intended to escalate the issue regardless of the J-govts efforts. In a practical sense it made no absoplutely no difference to China whether the islands were owned by a J-national or the J-govt. Japan still administered them and China still had a claim, either way.

It's very hard to understand the Japan government’s domestic actions with its bilateral commitments after the >fishing trawler incident, followed by senile Ishihara's actions. Not only were the legalities of the 1997 Japan-China >fisheries agreement in regards to effective high seas jurisdiction violated by Japan but the broader, commonly >agreed principle building separation between territorial and fisheries issues in the East China Sea was unilaterally >re-interpreted and Japan keeps instigating the problem.

Ishihara is far from senile, If he were he'd be less capable of influencing international issues to this extent;. It is China which is instigating, or rather openly escalating the problem. Fisheries is nowhere near open water access to the Pacific for the Chinese PLA Navy and potential oil/gas resources in he area on China's list of motives as fisheries would not justify the extent to whiuch China has unilaterally escalated this issue.

Why people are going against Ishihara? If Chinese think they are the world`s best then Japanese also have the right to think about own land and people... If the trade is the problem or worry of China lovers. Then let Japan suffer. Japan has the history of suffering and they know how to over come the difficulties. Not like Chinese...

Well said realmind.

I think most people on here (foreigners) are grumbling about Ishihara simply because he makes no secret of the fact that he doesn't like foreigners - not because he is one of the few Japanese politicians with the spine to stand up to the red chinese on issues like the Senkaku islands.

I applaud Mr Ishihara. Perhaps Japan wouldn't be such a wishy washy , stand for nothing country if we had more politicians like Ishihara and fewer from say the Hatoyama mold.

Before China's current actions, I agreed with he Japanese government, that keeping any buiding on ghe islanmd would help maintain stability with China on the issue. Hence, I suppoorted the J-govt's purchase of hte islands to pre-empt Ishihara from developing on jyhem on his own. Howvever, the reason for the J-Govt's purchase is missed entirely by China who, instead of recognizing that the J-Govt made an effort to not escalate the issue, insteads has used the purchse as a reason to escalte the issue far beyond what the islands warrant. So now, I say go ahead and build on them. Clearly China cannot appreciate any effort to take their position into account, so Japoan has nothing to lose. Ishihara's plan is to bulld facilities to provide safety for Japanese fishgermen. The same facilities would be used to assist both Chinese and Taiwanese fishermen if htey are rescued by the Japan Coast Guard. Not only it is a "peaceful" development it is to he benefit of Chinese and Taiwanese fishermen as well. Of course, China will l;ikely react to it like Japan was building a missle base and that's probably what they will tell their people. Statr a war? Only China can start a war.

Japan Can build a Missile silo in Senkaku for what I care. Chinese should go into their factories and build cheap goods like they always do.

Ishihara is planning to give the money to his black-van mates or family members. He should give it to the government to help out with the cost of purchasing the islands, but he won't. The man is a crook.

Except that he did offer.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politics/news/120905/plc12090522150021-n1.htm

tmarie, the Ryukyu Kingdom while gone is our legacy and who we are as a people.

It is China that is causing the problem sending ships into our waters. They are making the confrontations and not Japan. They are looking for excuses for the short victorious war.

AsianhometownOct. 05, 2012 - 11:08AM JST Japan is playing with fire!!!! Chinese are very emotional about this issue and any further action by the Japanese >government to establish a "lighthouse" on the island will push the Chinese people to the breaking point of war.

OK, let them start a "war" over some unhinhabited rocks and see who on htis planer supports them.

.If the Japanese government is hoping that the US will come to their aid for the war that Japanese will start, I think >the Japanese government is crazy..In the US, news media are siding with the Chinese and are blaming Japan for >the rising tension in the area..

The US Government has stated that the US will defend the Senkakus. There are two Carrier groups in he East and South China Seas as well as a Marine Assault Group ioff the Phillipines. All you have to do is read non-Chinbedse state controlled news media to know this is fact,. not "crazy". The US news media is hardly siing with China, they consider China's claim dubious.

hat if there is a war over these islands and even if US comes to help..The Japanese people are the ones who will >uffer..Do you think the US warships and missile defense systems can prevent missiles from landing on Japan and >apanese Nuclear reactors and etc..Japan wake up and smell the coffee before your leaders take you to another war >hat Japan cannot win.

Even talkng about a nuclear exchange is stupid. Even China does not want that. And in a real nuclear exchange, China has more people to suffer than anyone else.

sfjp330Oct. 05, 2012 - 09:41AM JST

Are you on Ishihara's payroll? Does Japan really want to esclate the problem to a military confrontation?

Why exactly should the building of a lighthouse be a cause for military confrontation? Are lighthouses very threatening or something? How can any country start a military confrontation over a "lighthouse" without looking like a crazy idiot of a country?

Why people are going against Ishihara? If Chinese think they are the world`s best then Japanese also have the right to think about own land and people... If the trade is the problem or worry of China lovers. Then let Japan suffer. Japan has the history of suffering and they know how to over come the difficulties. Not like Chinese...

We need to be assertive of our claim. To do this make facilities and have them operated by the Okinawa government. We the children of the Ryukyu Kingdom. Am so happy that foreigners do not make internal policy decisions within Japan.

Tough luck China and Obama. Our islands we can do what we like with them!