Italy, Japan, Britain discuss broadening jet fighter project to other countries

When that imaginary plane will be in the sky? Will it missed Ukraine action?

There are advantages and disadvantages to expanding the participation in such projects. It spreads the costs but can become overly bureaucratic and conflicting needs and operational requirements lead to delays, cost over runs and different versions so upping the cost anyway.

Keep it simple and work with people who are easy to work with and have similar strategic needs. Japan has a similar requirement to the UK and Italy is a proven and good partner in the field and has worked successful with Britain on more than one occasion.

I wonder what countries they are thinking about adding to the team? France? Germany?

""Italy, Britain and Japan agreed in December 2022 to collaborate to build an advanced front-line fighter to enter service around the middle of the next decade.""

By then fighter jets will be obsolete, who need one when you can reach a target any any where faster cheaper and without losing a pilot ???

Watching how wars are being fought these days Hypersonic and guided missiles even drones are much more capable than any fighter jet at half the cost.

WoodyLee

By then fighter jets will be obsolete, who need one when you can reach a target any any where faster cheaper and without losing a pilot ???

Where does the story say it will have a pilot? Is only a concept model at the moment.

The UK ruling class is hopelessly addicted to its "Dad's Army" militarism and is now egging on Ishiba who has a pronounced weakness for things military and the toys of warfare. Meanwhile, Starmer looks about to own a country with a swelling underclass drowning in neo-liberal immiseration. We are entering an era of violence presided over by an international cabal of chicken-hawks. World Peace RIP.

I wonder what countries they are thinking about adding to the team? France? Germany?

France and Germany are collaborating on their own 5th gen fighter project.

Watching how wars are being fought these days Hypersonic and guided missiles even drones are much more capable than any fighter jet at half the cost.

The US and UK used fighter jets to knock down large numbers of Iranian drones and missiles fired at Israel. Air to air missiles are a fraction of the cost of high performance ground based missiles and fighters can launch those missiles at ranges beyond the range of ground based missiles. The US Navy has been using carrier based aircraft to knock down Houthi missiles as a lower cost alternative to expending the SM-2s and SM-6s fired from destroyers. You can buy a lot of Sidewinders for the price of an SM-6

Having consulted with some key members directly involved in this project, quite a bit of unintentional intel came across the table and the way I view it - opening the door to more members will of course open up some financial and indeed technical support but inherently slow the project down significantly due to cyber securiry and other cooperating interest concerns -that were discussed.

By then fighter jets will be obsolete, who need one when you can reach a target any any where faster cheaper and without losing a pilot ???

Manned combat aircraft are not going away. We have been hearing this nonsense since the 1960s that missiles would make aircraft obsolete. Both UK and Canada cancelled outstanding new fighter aircraft programs based on that misconception and later regretted the decision.

What you will see in the future are manned/unmanned teaming. The latest version of the AH-64 Apache has the capability to use sensors on other unmanned aircraft to assist finding targets and illuminating them for their own weapons as well as the ability to control UAVs and fire the UAVs weapons at targets.

The US and Australia are testing what the Aussies call "Loyal Wingman" and what the USAF is calling the CCA for Collaborative Combat Aircraft with the F-35 and the upcoming NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) fighter intending to team unmanned aircraft, perhaps more than one type with the F-35 within the next 2-3 years.

Do the leaders of Italy and the UK know that Japan cannot export such weapons to a third country due to a constitutional constraint?

@Lookingforbooks

I wonder what countries they are thinking about adding to the team? France? Germany?

UK and Italy have been wanting to add Saudi Arabia, opposed by Japan. Unfortunately, Kishida said no in the face of Mohammad Bin Salman and angry MBS is currently discussing joining Korea's 6th gen fighter program based on the KF-21. Korea has been bending backward to get Saudi Arabia join their program, such as reinterpretation MTCR treaty to enable export of 900 km range ballistic missiles and a low-orbit SAR spy satellite constellation so that Saudi Arabia can scan entire Middle East every 30 minute.

Saudi Arabia is already building its integrated ballistic missile defense network with Korea's M-SAM/L-SAM.

@voiceofokinawa

Do the leaders of Italy and the UK know that Japan cannot export such weapons to a third country due to a constitutional constraint?

That's fine, UK and Italy would gladly take over Japan's marketing territory. UK and Italy just need Japan to ship GCAP parts to them.

Manned fighter jet's days are numbered. By the time this thing is up and flying, we'll be at the 10th gen of unmanned crafts that can outmaneuver anything manned.

Can't use history as a reference point. AI has changed everything and is unstoppable. We'll have autonomous weapons fighting our wars sooner than later.

Just buy from the U.S. for your current fighter jet needs. Don't waste your time, money, energy, and engineers on this waste of resources.

@Jalapeno

Manned fighter jet's days are numbered.

Not at all. AI cannot execute missions on a total communication silence required of stealth. It takes a human pilot to improvise changing battleground situations that deviate from initial mission planning.

Do the leaders of Italy and the UK know that Japan cannot export such weapons to a third country due to a constitutional constraint?

My guess is that the leaders of IT and UK have more information on the subject that you or me.

interesting, new UK gov raising taxes, it is broke and has huge deficit debts (GBP value, laughable) Italy economy maybe even worse! so they inc Jpn the intended finance??? Pie in the sky pretensions of military might. Shepherd's pie in the sky...only on a windy kiting day?

9

Just buy from the U.S. 

The US will not be a reliable country in a few months. It is why Japan is looking for other solutions.

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/08/why-japan-opposed-saudi-arabia-joining-uk-italy-gcap-fighter-jet-alliance

Why is Japan opposed to Saudi Arabia joining UK-Italy GCAP fighter jet alliance?

https://mecouncil.org/blog_posts/why-japan-should-welcome-saudi-arabia-into-the-gcap-fighter-jet-alliance/

Why Japan Should Welcome Saudi Arabia into the GCAP Fighter Jet Alliance

Tokyo could significantly improve its global standing by allowing Saudi Arabia to join a tripartite project to build a next-generation combat aircraft.

When Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida visited Saudi Arabia in July, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman directly asked to join the alliance. But while the UK and Italy are open to Saudi Arabia’s offer, Japan is “firmly opposed,” according to a report by the Financial Times.

More interesting now I go thru the above commments. Is how a blog of armchair warriors can discuss the effectiveness of differing killing machines. cry emoji!. at what human and environmental cost. Why can we not all be blogging about arranging a JT non-sponsored environmental kit flying day, (mmh yep a rainy day here) maybe next month..I accept that the concept jet fighter was the object.

Do the leaders of Italy and the UK know that Japan cannot export such weapons to a third country due to a constitutional constraint?

The Diet changed Japanese law in that regard. If you recall they bid on the Australian submarine program that the French eventually won and the Mogami class frigate is one of the designs being considered for a new Australian general purpose frigate program. Japan build Patriot missiles and sells these to the US to replace stocks depleted not just by Ukraine but also by Saudi Arabia and UAE who shot over a hundred Patriots defending against Houthi missiles.  

In any event Japan could build them for the JASDF and it would still be a useful program to participate in. The Brits and Italians could build them for export.

 AI has changed everything and is unstoppable. 

Not even remotely true. AI only knows what it has been taught. It cannot think. It cannot innovate. It cannot come up with new ideas on the fly like humans can. It only knows what it knows.

https://cybernews.com/ai-news/ai-independent-thinking-existential-threat/

https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/ai-lacks-common-sense-why-programs-cannot-think

Btw, an early form of AI has been out there in the US and some allied navies since the early 1980s in the form of the Aegis battle management system. It was designed and tested in the 1970s but the first combat ships to carry Aegis didn't appear until the Ticonderoga Class cruisers of the early 1980s but I remember the prototype structure on the beach near Oxnard CA. One of its great features is its ability to sort through all the many hundreds to even thousands of objects its associated AN/SPY-1 radars detect, rapidly classify them as threats or something to be ignored, and decide on what order to engage them and with what weapons, and do all of this far faster than any human can possibly do. That is a form of AI. The world didn't get sucked into a worm hole and get spat out into an alternative dimension by it . Humans still have to turn it on and control it. As a former Department Head said to me during my active duty days when a very early laptop running DOS (pre-windows) was getting me frustrated, he said "don't get mad at something you can pull the plug on".

The shape of GCAP reminds me of the old Douglas Skyray

https://i1.wp.com/fightersweep.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/F4D-1_Skyray_of_VMF-115_in_flight_in_1957.jpg?fit=800%2C500&ssl=1

well...why not involve Sweden (assuming they might want to)...

Saab has been making advanced jet fighters for years

Clearly, they know there are systemic issues with the whole project.

UK economy is a shambles - two tier Keir has just raided working class farmers to prop up his budget.

Italy's economy is hardly much better.

Both have issues with new arrivals.

Japan's economy has its own internal issues.

Suspect nothing in this project is actually funded apart from the snazzy mock-up in the photo.

Thus, they want to rope others into buying into this lemon of a project; whether they fall for it and get dudded is speculation - notice the article doesn't mention any countries. Everyone else in Europe is out of money, including the Germans. The US wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. Australia is already tied at the hip to the former. Canada has no real reason as it lives next to the former. So, that leaves the cashed-up Gulf States to keep this scam afloat.

Of course, only way to sell enough of them is to include more partner countries. This project will take so long that the fighter will be outdated by the time the first one is in production

The only question I have is, who will ever fly them in aging, shrinking, disappearing societies? Are they highly probably operated by immigrants in UK and Italy, or by 80+ yrs old pensioner ex-pilots in case of Japan? I mean, both areas , the rest of EU and Korean peninsula could be added similarly, they have no more own future, neither if peace nor if in war, so all these expensive military projects paid by all of us diminish our remaining leftovers and will serve finally only those who are going to take over soon and inherit everything. Hear me, better develop peace and babies!

well...why not involve Sweden (assuming they might want to)...

Saab has been making advanced jet fighters for years

SAAB and the Swedish Air Force are working on a 6th gen fighter and unmanned aircraft to team with it. They are bypassing 5th gen entirely.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2024/focus-saab-reveals-sixth-generation-manned-and-unmanned-fighter-concepts-for-swedish-armed-forces

India would seriously consider joining seeing how Russian technology which India heavily relies on, is behind western technology.

They need next generation engine technology

to finalize their own fighter development project which lacks power output.

Wasabi,

Of course, they may know about it. But they may think it is not a real McCoy If they knew that it was a real McCoy, they would never participate in this joint venture.