Italy says it will be equal partner in jet fighter project with UK, Japan

Italy says it will be equal partner in jet fighter project with UK, Japan

Equal partner with Japan? no that's not gonna work. Japan will claim it will lead tho whole thing.

https://www.japanstrategy.com/business-in-japan/how-to-fail-in-japan/

For those who don't track the GCAP program, here is what's happening.

Japan thought it was getting 40:40:20 (UK:Japan:Italy) program share to maximize Japan's workshare.

Italy is insisting that it get 33:33:33 program share to maximize its own workshare or else.

Then there is Saudi Arabia which is also demanding an equal share, so it will eventually dilute down to 25:25:25:25 across four nations.

If Japan doesn't like this workshare split arrangement, then it can always choose to leave and spend the money on drones instead.

So, Italy wants more than just designing the leather seats?

@BigP

Italy wants more than just designing the leather seats?

Italy actually has a world class military electronics industry.

This illustrates how much Japanese are clueless about the outside world and Japan's standing in the world.

For example, Eurofighter Typhoon has an Italian AESA radar.

Likewise, UK expected to integrate Italian AESA radar, IRST/EW sensors, and data transmission system into the GCAP, not Japanese.

Italians are decades ahead of Japanese in terms of military electronics.

The only contribution Japan can make to GCAP is the supply of composite fuselage parts, landing gear, and engine parts.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/sensors-electronic-warfare/leonardo-delivers-prototype-eurofighter-radar-2

Leonardo Delivers Prototype Eurofighter Radar 2

Tony Osborne April 21, 2023

Leonardo has delivered the first example of the so-called Radar 2 active electronically scanned array (AESA) sensor for integration and testing on the Eurofighter Typhoon. 

The prototype sensor, also known as the European Common Radar System Mk. 2, was delivered to BAE Systems’ facility in Warton, England, in early April. There, BAE will fit the radar into a development aircraft ready for initial flight tests planned for next year, Leonardo announced April 21. 

The UK and Italy also are working on the advanced electronics and sensors that will equip the fighter that emerges from the Global Combat Air Program (GCAP) with Japan. Radar 2 technologies are expected to feed into that project, helping to reduce risk and accelerate the GCAP sensor development effort.

Italy is still smarting after only getting 21% of Typhoon and 15% of Tornado.

At least with no German input this time we have a better chance of building it without leaking designs to the Russians.

This illustrates how much Japanese are clueless about the outside world and Japan's standing in the world.

Talk about ignorance.

Japan was the first to develop and install an AESA radar on a fighter. She was also the first to develop and install it on an air to air missile. MBDA with GB was in talks to adopt the Japanese radar system into the Meteor Missile but placed onto the back burner since they need to remodel it so it can fit into F-35's internal bay.

Japan is also one of the few global players that can develop/manufacture GaN semiconductors which are critical in developing next generation radars.

The US was drooling to get their hands on skin radar system that Japan was developing as well.

So, Italy wants more than just designing the leather seats?

That made me smile. Back in the 80s, I was teaching at a Japanese company that was partly involved in a joint project between Japan and the US to develop a new military jet. While the company was involved in some aircraft work (mainly sea planes), it didn't develop jet aircraft. So I asked the students what the company's role was to be. "Not sure, but we'll probably be making the ashtrays", was the reply.

Italians are decades ahead of Japanese in terms of military electronics

Without giving anything away you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Italy actually has a world class military electronics industry.

Italy has to co-develop with the US. AARGM for example though the primary tech is a product of many decades of development at someplace dear to my heart and a project I have some knowledge of. Italy tag teamed on what the US was doing anyway and the Germans decided they could not afford it and dropped out.

Btw Samit, if you look at the dual band AESA radars on the superstructures of the Akizuki class destroyers, the Hyuga and Izumo class DDH helicopter carriers and the new dual band AESA on the Mogami class frigates, those radars are Mitsubishi products designed and manufactured in Japan and unique to the JMSDF.

Italy is still smarting after only getting 21% of Typhoon and 15% of Tornado.

They received what they could afford to pay for.

Wouldn't it be best to develop the aircraft and engine in the UK and Japan without partnering with the US, and leave the electronics to Italy?

For Japan as well, America's side-stepping during the development of the F2 was nothing more than unnecessary.

If this goes well, it will give momentum to future fighter jet development.

Wouldn't it be best to develop the aircraft and engine in the UK and Japan without partnering with the US, and leave the electronics to Italy?

The engine will undoubtedly be a UK derived product. They are the engine supplier for the Eurofighter Typhoon and have the most recent and most advanced combat jet engine knowledge.

Based on what I have been reading the radar and other sensors on the GCAP will be based on those used on the CAPTOR-E radar recently retrofitted to the Eurofighter Typhoon. Because the team is starting with a clean sheet the airframe will be able to provide ideal shapes and geometries for the several antennas involved. On the Typhoon the exterior mold line, determined long before CAPTOR-E was developed and limits what can be done with that sensor suite in that aircraft. From what I have read the shapes used on GCAP will permit CAPTOR-E to achieve its full performance. CAPTOR-E is the product of a joint British, Italian and German effort.