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Motegi protests over Russian PM's visit to disputed island

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I think by this point getting back these islands is impossible and considering there are already people living there, i doubt the Russians will ever move. How about a joint kinda sharing agreement instead? Where Japanese citizens and Russians can visit each other on these islands with no visa needed?

Trading between a neighbor is at least better than having them stationing troops there worrying about attacks. Build a few tourist spots, a museum, hotels and souvernir shops there is better than getting into argument all the time.

I would like to visit these islands if tension weren't always so high.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

@ Hiro

A business property must have legal owners. The Kurils do.

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

Don't Trust Russia. Don't waste bloody Tax to Russia any further. Don't give in.

4 islands have nothing to do with WW2 nor any other previous wars. Those belong to Japan

from the very beginning.

4 ( +19 / -15 )

Japan is right to protest. The Russian PM - or any Russian for that matter - have no right to be on these four Japanese islands without permission from Japan. The environmental damage they are doing to these pristine islands is immeasurable.

Give the Northern Territiries back now, totalitarian, criminal Russian state!

3 ( +18 / -15 )

The Southern Kurils will transfer to Japan the day the Ryukyus regain independence.

-5 ( +12 / -17 )

Japan has no legal standing over the South Kurils. J acquired the islands in the treaty of St. Petersburg in 1875 but relinquished them in the treaty of San Francisco. It's disingenuous for Jason to claim the Kurils are not part of the SF treaty. Moreover Russia is the de facto owner of the islands. This protest needs no response from Russia.

-4 ( +13 / -17 )

Jason----Japan

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Japan has no legal standing over the South Kurils. J acquired the islands in the treaty of St. Petersburg in 1875 but relinquished them in the treaty of San Francisco. It's disingenuous for Jason to claim the Kurils are not part of the SF treaty. Moreover Russia is the de facto owner of the islands. This protest needs no response from Russia.

There's no such islands called Southern Kurils which was created by Russians later. And you might want to check your history book again. In 1855 Japan and Russia signed the Treaty of Commerce, Navigation and Delimitation, which confirmed the boundary between the islands of Etorofu and Uruppu. The Northern Territories, consisting of four islands of Etorofu, Kunashiri, Shikotan and Habomai, are an inherent part of the territory of Japan, which have never been held by foreign countries. In 1875 Japan and Russia swapped between entire Kurils and Sakhalin where the treaty clearly stated The Kurils Japan was to acquires were 18 islands from the North top Shumshu down to South bottom Uruppu. Do you know what this means? Kurils do not include those 4 islands below Uruppu in the 1st place, which Japan relinquished them in the treaty of San Francisco, Not to mention Russia had not signed the treaty

10 ( +17 / -7 )

The problem is always the US.

During the 1956 peace talks between Japan and the Soviet Union, the Soviet side proposed to settle the dispute by returning Shikotan and Habomai to Japan. In the final round of the talks, the Japanese side accepted the weakness of its claim to Iturup and Kunashiri and agreed to settle on the return of Shikotan and the Habomai Islands, in exchange for a peace treaty. However, the U.S. government intervened and blocked the deal.[18][20] The U.S. warned Japan that a withdrawal of the Japanese claim on the other islands would mean the U.S. would keep Okinawa, causing Japan to refuse these terms. The U.S. had asserted that the San Francisco Peace Treaty "did not determine the sovereignty of the territories renounced by Japan", but that "Japan does not have the right to transfer sovereignty over such territories".[22] Nevertheless, on October 19, 1956, in Moscow, the USSR and Japan signed the Soviet–Japanese Joint Declaration. The Declaration ended the state of war between the Soviet Union and Japan, which technically had still existed between the two countries since August 1945.[24] The Joint Declaration did not settle the Kuril Islands dispute, the resolution of which was postponed until the conclusion of a permanent peace treaty between USSR and Japan. However, Article 9 of the Joint Declaration stated: "The U.S.S.R. and Japan have agreed to continue, after the establishment of normal diplomatic relations between them, negotiations for the conclusion of a peace treaty. Hereby, the U.S.S.R., in response to the desires of Japan and taking into consideration the interest of the Japanese state, agrees to hand over to Japan the Habomai and the Shikotan Islands, provided that the actual changing over to Japan of these islands will be carried out after the conclusion of a peace treaty."[25]

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Get over it, Japan!

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

Japan disclaimed sovereignty over these islands, so it literally has no dog in this fight. Put another way: There is no actual dispute over these islands.

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

Winner takes all . Two men in the ring .. 3 rounds and the prize goes to whoever.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Exactly, the four islands are of course Japanese and should be given back without preconditions, and what only and really still has to be negotiated, are the other Kuril Islands up to Kamchatka and the southern part of Kurafuto as a package. You can see that in any map of an atlas book, for example my former school atlas , decades ago (btw behind the curtain so even the Soviet Union influenced schools ‘taught’ exactly that version too, well , taught is not exactly right, when I asked my geography teacher, why it is white area like others were for Westsahara, Tibet etc., and if there are maybe also territorial differences between Japan and the USSR and why, I only got a short and angry ‘I don’t know and can’t tell now’ as answer and the topic was quickly changed. lol) or look at a contemporary one sold in a Japanese bookstore, all have the same area in white, marked as still to be negotiated. In addition a separate peace treaty can or should negotiated too, but that is more a formal issue and touching wider other aspects, like military, cultural exchange, economy, bilateral politics and such, but it will also work without any paper as it has the last seven, eight decades without it.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Treaty of San Francisco and Yalta conference. Period.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Treaty of San Francisco and Yalta conference. Period.

Yalta means nothing. Yalta's definition of Kuril islands did not include these 4 islands in the 1st place anyway. Soviet (Russia) is not a signer of San Fran but had signed on The Atlantic Charter. Period.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

If Japan did not start a war of aggression and joined Nazi Germany and Mussolini in their attempt to rule the world, those islands would have still be Japanese. But alas Japan chose a path of evil and here is the cost of such behavior including the nuclear bombing. Cause and effect! Those who chose to invade others land, shall be invaded themselves. Remember who started all this crap in the first place!!! So stop your .... crying Japan and repent for your sins!

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

@ KennyG

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_SaintPetersburg(1875)

The Japanese are conveniently blaming the use of French and Japanese language transliterations...looks like someone is lost in translation.....Tokyo style.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Cogito Ergo SumToday  09:48 am JST

Japan has no legal standing over the South Kurils. J acquired the islands in the treaty of St. Petersburg in 1875 but relinquished them in the treaty of San Francisco

Japan did not relinquish ownership to, nor did the Signatory Nations of the San Francisci Treaty ever assign ownership to the USSR. Which did not attend and was not a signatory.

The fours islands that consitutute the Southern Kuriles are Japanese territory illegally occupied by Russia according the US, UK and other Treaty Signatories.

it is Russia which has no legal standing. Only the power of occupation and posession. All part of the Soviet land grab everywhere in the final days of WWII by Stalin the thug.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

@Cogito Ergo

@ KennyG

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_SaintPetersburg(1875)

The Japanese are conveniently blaming the use of French and Japanese language transliterations...looks like someone is lost in translation.....Tokyo style.

Thanks but no thanks for the link unable to process. I trust you, what does it say?

10 ( +13 / -3 )

PaulToday  04:31 pm JST

If Japan did not start a war of aggression and joined Nazi Germany and Mussolini in their attempt to rule the world, those islands would have still be Japanese. 

The four islands were never taken in any war. That's why the WWII Allied Powers excluded them from territories to bre taken away from Japan. But Stalin stole them.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Cogito Ergo SumToday  09:48 am JST

Japan has no legal standing over the South Kurils. J acquired the islands in the treaty of St. Petersburg in 1875 

No. Treaty of Shimoda 1855.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Dear Japan, you're not getting the Kurils back.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Motegi protesting what?

russian PM visiting islands-part of Russian federation.

i really dont get why japanese gov cant get it each time?

islands are russian ones.there is nothing else to discuss about it.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

Etorofu Island

I didn't realize Etorofu was a Russian word.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

ZorotoToday  06:42 pm JST

Etorofu Island

I didn't realize Etorofu was a Russian word.

No. Etorofu is a Japanese pronunciation of a Japanese word. The origin is Ainu word. etu-oro-o-p meaning Cape point. Russian = Iturup Japanese=Etrorofu/択捉

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Had Japan not gone empire building then these islands would still be Japanese.

Motegi needs a history lesson to learn the facts…

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

The matter of fact is that none of Japan's neighbors accept Japan's territorial claims.

As far as Japan's neighbors are concerned,

1) Southern Kurils are Russian. Chinese and Korean(Both North and South) pay fishing tax to Russia to fish there.

2) Liancourt Rocks are Korean.

3) Diaoyu Islands are Taiwanese/Chinese.

So no one cares Motegi protests or not, this is no longer even a news outside of Japan.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

What's that wisdom line right-wing here likes to dispense to its neighbors again when it comes to WW2 issues ?

Oh yes.....it happened 70 years ago, move on already.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

marcelitoToday  08:47 am JST

What's that wisdom line right-wing here likes to dispense to its neighbors again when it comes to WW2 issues ?

Right-Wing? Nationalists? The governmments of the United States and United Kingdom consider these 4 islands to be Japanese territory under Russian occupation". So the US and UK are Japanese right-wing nationalists? LOL

9 ( +11 / -2 )

kurisupisuAug. 12  11:50 pm JST

Had Japan not gone empire building then these islands would still be Japanese.

Motegi needs a history lesson to learn the facts…

No, you need a history lesson to learn the facts, The 4 islands became Japanese in 1855 through a negotiated treaty with Russia, before any "Empire building" by Japan.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

@marcelito: What's that wisdom line right-wing

The Japanese ruling party L.D.P. was two fascist parties snapped together by U.S. in 1954, some member were former fascist! Like the 1957 Japnese PM : Nobusuke Kishi ! This man was a commercial minister of Manchuko, then a puppet state under Japanese occupation in 1930s/early40s! he has committed slavery of Chinese ad Manchrians in Manchuko for harsh labouring works! And he was the great uncle of Shinzo Abe(Former P.M.) and present Japanese defense minister Nobuo Kishi! The LDP has a tradition of family inheritance of political careers, like a family business! You can trace back their "Fascist Roots' from this strange political tradition!

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

What's that wisdom line right-wing here likes to dispense to its neighbors again when it comes to WW2 issues ?

Right-Wing? Nationalists? The governmments of the United States and United Kingdom consider these 4 islands to be Japanese territory under Russian occupation". So the US and UK are Japanese right-wing nationalists? LOL

Either you clearly didn't get my point or are intentionally skirting around it. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the well worn " it happened 70 years ago , move on " line that the J- right-wing uses on most other WW2 issues from Nanking to the sex slaves, to 731 and everything in between. Yet the same crowd keeps on yepping about the Kurils. Japan lost the war , too bad. Loosing territory is a price it paid. Don't like it? Too bad, it ain't gonna change.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@Kenny G: Yalta's definition of Kuril islands did not include these 4 islands in the 1st place anyway

The Yalta conference has granted the Soviet Union the legitimacy to attack Japan after the fall of Nazi Germany! The Japanese army were notorious of "Disobedience" and "Savage War Conducts"! Some Japanese soldiers were aware they will be sent to Siberia labour camps or execution by the Red army, they continues to fight after 15th August when the Emperor announced surrender! Even after 2thSpet 1945 when the official surrender took place on a US battleship by Imperial Japan delegation with signature on paper, still some Japanese soldiers choose to fight the Red army until 30th Sepetember 1945! Because they were fighting for their own lives! That's why the Soviet Union has a legitimacy to stamp out every single resisting Japanese soldier on every single inch of soil, they could reached! That's why these four islands were in the hands of USSR! Stalin did not steal any islands, it was some unreasonable Japanese soldiers stubbornness prolonged the conflicts was the cause! Let me tell you, there were five Japanese soldiers in the jungle of The Philipines keeping fighting and one managed to survive until 1972!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Unless Japan has something really valuable to trade with Russia for those islands, don't expect to ever get them back.

Japan should consider itself lucky that Gen. MacCarthur didn't let the Russians take Hokkaido as they demanded after WWII.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

stormcrowToday  03:00 pm JST

Unless Japan has something really valuable to trade with Russia for those islands, don't expect to ever get them back.

Japan's money right? Russia has been trying to trick Japan and its investment for free only by dangling a carrot

Japan should consider itself lucky that Gen. MacCarthur didn't let the Russians take Hokkaido as they demanded after WWII.

How typical white's condescending attitude is that? What about the Atlantic Charter? What about Hague 1907?

What about so-called humanity? This kind of BS is nothing but reasoning the events afterwards under victor's narratives. So How did Gen. MacCarthur describe that war later?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Islands are owned, lived on, and administered by Russia. Ergo they are Russian. Bottom line. Japan had the chance to get two back and laughed -- now they have zero and can only cry.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

elephant

The Yalta conference has granted the Soviet Union the legitimacy to attack Japan after the fall of Nazi Germany! The Japanese army were notorious of "Disobedience" and "Savage War Conducts"! Some Japanese soldiers were aware they will be sent to Siberia labour camps or execution by the Red army, they continues to fight after 15th August when the Emperor announced surrender! Even after 2thSpet 1945 when the official surrender took place on a US battleship by Imperial Japan delegation with signature on paper, still some Japanese soldiers choose to fight the Red army until 30th Sepetember 1945! Because they were fighting for their own lives! That's why the Soviet Union has a legitimacy to stamp out every single resisting Japanese soldier on every single inch of soil, they could reached! That's why these four islands were in the hands of USSR! Stalin did not steal any islands, it was some unreasonable Japanese soldiers stubbornness prolonged the conflicts was the cause! Let me tell you, there were five Japanese soldiers in the jungle of The Philipines keeping fighting and one managed to survive until 1972!

You know Soviet had been asked by Japan for the mediation with conditional surrender, don't you?

Then what? Knowing Japan's attitude and conditions, Soviet unilaterally dumped the neutral pact ( Remember. Not-renewing the pact does not entitle you to ignore the expiry date of on-going current and the last tenor of the pact) , Declared war just an hour before with Moscow telegraph station blocking Japanese ambassador's emergent telegraph to be transmitted, and started invasions, never stopped it, never ceased fire, even after, Japan's acceptance of Potsdam 8/14 Japan's official surrender 8/15, even after official signing ceremony on USS Missouri 9/02 The heck, if the thugs broken into your house and about to rape and kill your family, you would defend no matter what! After all, Japan could never declare war against Soviet and hence Japan had every rights to defend itself.

And you are saying it was because Japanese didn't drop the weapons?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

cogito:

Jason----Japan

An understandable mistake. Today is Friday 13th after all.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

smithinjapanToday  05:11 pm JST

Islands are owned, lived on, and administered by Russia. Ergo they are Russian. Bottom line. Japan had the chance to get two back and laughed -- now they have zero and can only cry.

 

You are basically saying, forget it and move on. It's been 76 years already. Except no one has ever entitled such a ownership to Soviet( Russia) except yourself. Tell the same narrative to Koreans about their Japanese days and to stop keeping crying. UN or Int'l law whatever, what looks like International legal understanding were simply built up for legitimizing such white dominations, otherwise, you all are logically to vacate North and South America, anywhere speaking your language other than your own homelands. Effective control sucks

4 ( +6 / -2 )

stormcrowToday  03:00 pm JST

Unless Japan has something really valuable to trade with Russia for those islands, don't expect to ever get them back.

Japan's money right? Russia has been trying to trick Japan and its investment for free only by dangling a carrot

Japan should consider itself lucky that Gen. MacCarthur didn't let the Russians take Hokkaido as they demanded after WWII.

How typical white's condescending attitude is that? What about the Atlantic Charter? What about Hague 1907?

What about so-called humanity? This kind of BS is nothing but reasoning the events afterwards under victor's narratives. So How did Gen. MacCarthur describe that war later?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

kennyG:

You are basically saying, forget it and move on.

What else are you going to do? Start a war? You can moan all you like. Russia's not listening and other countries don't care.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Pukey2Today  06:53 pm JST

kennyG:

You are basically saying, forget it and move on.

What else are you going to do? Start a war? You can moan all you like. Russia's not listening and other countries don't care.

Territorial issues are current issues and not the same as craps over past like " Apology, yes sincere one, but we judge if it is or not, or compensation, yes, money is everything

4 ( +5 / -1 )

elephant200Today  11:32 am JST

The Japanese ruling party L.D.P. was two fascist parties snapped together by U.S. in 1954,

The Soviet Red Army invaded these islands in September 1945.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

 Mark my words.

After all, Japan could never have time nor condition to declare war against Soviet and hence Japan had every rights to defend itself at least against Russian's aggression.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@kennyG

Even if Japan offered the Russians a trillion dollars and threw the Emperor in to seal the deal, they'd still refuse.

However, if a Russian leader in the form of Jimmy Carter ever comes along, then Japan might get its islands back and for free. Until that time, the Russians will never return them. It's just not in their nature.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

stormcrowToday  09:28 pm JST

@kennyG

Even if Japan offered the Russians a trillion dollars and threw the Emperor in to seal the deal, they'd still refuse.

However, if a Russian leader in the form of Jimmy Carter ever comes along, then Japan might get its islands back and for free. Until that time, the Russians will never return them. It's just not in their nature.

Agreed. But Japan must keep claiming it's sovereignty over the islands or it would be judged as if it having given it up under current Int'l Law framework, no matter how Int'l Community keeps laughing at and insulting at its whimping.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Yeah, ok. I can agree with that. Times change, so you never know.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

kennyG:

Territorial issues are current issues and not the same as craps over past like " Apology, yes sincere one, but we judge if it is or not, or compensation, yes, money is everything

OK, shall we talk about Diaoyutai then? It's funny how people like you want to talk about territories in the hands of others but not when it's in your hands already.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What about Senkaku islands? you start it if you want. Japan does not build anything, does not let anyone land there, no military drills, not provoking the counterpart like the other two

2 ( +2 / -0 )

OssanAmericaAug. 13  10:27 am JST

kurisupisuAug. 12  11:50 pm JST

Had Japan not gone empire building then these islands would still be Japanese.

Motegi needs a history lesson to learn the facts…

No, you need a history lesson to learn the facts, The 4 islands became Japanese in 1855 through a negotiated treaty with Russia, before any "Empire building" by Japan.

Come off it Ossan!

Japan invaded China and was stealing its resources under colonization and started mixing it up with Russia!

Even the Mongolians helped to kick Japan out.

Russia won-Japan lost

And to the victor go the spoils…

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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