Ishiba won't visit Yasukuni Shrine for autumn rite, source says

＠Simon Foston

The reason why the emperor can no longer visit the shrine is not because Class A war criminals are enshrined there, but because Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone made a distinction between public and private citizens when he visited the shrine.

The emperor has no status as a private citizen, only as a public citizen. When criticism of this became a problem, he stopped visiting the shrine.

If the past emperors were really considered problematic, the imperial family and the imperial family should not be allowed to visit the shrine either, but it was only the emperor who stopped visiting the shrine, and the emperor's family and the imperial family continue to visit the shrine.

Just because Japan allied with the Nazis does not mean that it accepted the Nazi doctrine. Few countries have contributed more to the treatment of Polish orphans and Jewish refugees in Siberia than Japan. You should find out why Chiune Sugihara is called the Schindler of the East.

Ishiba seems to be moderate and cautious in his actions. Hurray for Ishiba.

The symbolic place where beautify wartime Japan and justify invasion war or war-criminal.

Japanese far-rights or Japan's neo-nazi groups who distort history deify it, but its history is short unlike other shrines. even royal family avoid to visit it last decades.

The important point the high priest decides all matters.

The rules regarding the shrine depends on the 神主. The supposed permanence of who is enshrined can be reversed if the 神主 changes. That is the solution to the:

There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

wallaceToday  09:36 pm JST

I guess the people who think that should just read up on what a "kami" is.

Isn't it usually just one spiritual entity rather than a compound being that individual souls can be added to? I've never heard of another kami like the one they have at Yasukuni, which isn't a very old shrine.

wallaceToday  08:59 pm JST

Simon Foston

The Shinto priests won't break their own rules.

I imagine they can though, have an inkling they might if they thought it would boost visitor numbers and income.

Shinto is based on the worship of kami. The most important kami is Amaterasu (Amaterasu-Omikami). Shinto as a distinct religion, kami veneration has been traced back to Japan's Yayoi period (300 BC to AD 300).

The important point the high priest decides all matters.

I get all that, but which particular high priest decided on this rule and when?

Chidorigafuchi National Cemetery is a national Japanese cemetery and memorial for 352,297 unidentified war dead of the Second World War.

Zaphod

The dead are listed by name only. Kami. They cannot be removed. There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

I understand the names were added in 72. If names can be added, they can be removed too, no? As can that military museum on the grounds that has nothing to do with religion.

I guess the people who think that should just read up on what a "kami" is.

wallace

The dead are listed by name only. Kami. They cannot be removed. There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

I understand the names were added in 72. If names can be added, they can be removed too, no? As can that military museum on the grounds that has nothing to do with religion.

Good on him! I hope he instead goes to the Chidorigafuji memorial, which is not stained by politicial meddling with history.

Simon Foston

The Shinto priests won't break their own rules.

Indeed not but it makes me wonder who made this rule and when. Shintoism isn't a monolithic organisation like the Catholic Church and Yasukuni Shrine isn't very old really. Could it be that the priests who decided the kami couldn't be disensrhined were the same ones that enshrined the war criminals in the first place.

Shinto is based on the worship of kami. The most important kami is Amaterasu (Amaterasu-Omikami). Shinto as a distinct religion, kami veneration has been traced back to Japan's Yayoi period (300 BC to AD 300).

The important point the high priest decides all matters.

wallaceToday  08:17 pm JST

The Shinto priests won't break their own rules.

Indeed not but it makes me wonder who made this rule and when. Shintoism isn't a monolithic organisation like the Catholic Church and Yasukuni Shrine isn't very old really. Could it be that the priests who decided the kami couldn't be disensrhined were the same ones that enshrined the war criminals in the first place.

John

What is it you imagine they "put in"? The Shinto priests won't break their own rules. Everything is decided by the head priest alone.

A state-supported shrine that enshrines the banes of war criminals without consultation can unenshrine the names of war criminals.

The Yasukuni Shrine is 100% private and does not receive a single yen from the government. That would be illegal. The government has no control over the shrine other than the laws covering all shrines. As I said, the high priest controls everything.

There are zero state-supported shrines. Against the Constitution.

As I said, that done by humans can be undone.

There are Taiwanese enshrined at the shrine who fought for the Japanese during the law. Their families wanted their names removed but it never happened.

What is it you imagine they "put in"? The Shinto priests won't break their own rules. Everything is decided by the head priest alone.

A state-supported shrine that enshrines the banes of war criminals without consultation can unenshrine the names of war criminals.

As I said, that done by humans can be undone.

John

The dead are listed by name only. Kami. They cannot be removed. There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

They were put in by humans. They can be taken out by humans regardless of what the Shinto priests say.

> All that is lacking is the will to do so.

What is it you imagine they "put in"? The Shinto priests won't break their own rules. Everything is decided by the head priest alone.

OssanAmericaToday  04:45 pm JST

Best not to get all righteous about War Criminals. They are tried and judged by the victors.

Whereas their descendants are a lot more lenient. The prime minister of Japan, for instance, is never going to condemn someone for war crimes when it's his own grandfather.

Anyway a lot of Japanese war criminals got a pretty good deal from the victors, specifically Gen. McArthur. He let them out of prison and back into government, and those war criminals let other war criminals off the hook too. Later on the party they founded got lots of money from the CIA. So there isn't much for Americans to get righteous about, right enough.

wallaceToday  01:44 pm JST

The dead are listed by name only. Kami. They cannot be removed. There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

They were put in by humans. They can be taken out by humans regardless of what the Shinto priests say.

All that is lacking is the will to do so.

Best not to get all righteous about War Criminals. They are tried and judged by the victors.

"Major General Curtis LeMay, who famously remarked: “If we lose, we’ll be tried as war criminals.” 

https://virginiahistory.org/learn/black-snow-curtis-lemay-firebombing-tokyo-and-road-atomic-bomb

Today, WWII is old history. Japan's current militarization is welcomed by it's old WWII enemies, the US, UK, Australia, etc. It is even welcomed by the Republic of China which Imperial Japan invaded in 1937. China's (PRC) days of playing the WWII card against Japan are over. It has made itself the biggest threat in Asia if not the world. Along with it's ally Russia.

Putin is a war criminal and freely continuing to bomb Ukranians. Dead war criminals really do not pose a threat to those who are living today.

deanzaZZRToday 02:07 pm JST

Still, pretty peaceful considering they are up against the largest navy in the world not dedicated to peace.

Yes, devoted to peace. Also stationing 50,000+ USA military personnel including a nuclear powered aircraft carrier and a Marine Division.

Japan has the only constitution devoted to peace!

Agent_NeoToday  01:14 pm JST

China suddenly began to see visits to Yasukuni Shrine as an issue when Prime Minister Nakasone visited in 1985, but even Zhou Enlai has visited the shrine.

The Emperor of Japan started to see it as an issue after those war criminals had been enshrined there.

To begin with, there is no recognition that Japanese people have a completely different view of religion from foreigners. Although it depends on the shrine, the idea of ​​viewing an enshrined person as absolutely sacred is a cult-like religious view, and is almost unthinkable among Japanese people.

It should be made clear that they are different from German neo-Nazis.

Not that different, evidently. Japan sided with the German Nazis in WW2.

itsonlyrocknrollToday  12:34 pm JST

If that mean making politically abrasive public gestures, as a show of intent towards belligerence then so be it.

A show of intent? More like needless, pointless provocation that will only invite more belligerence.

Have you ever been to 靖国神社？

Once a Kami is made it cannot be removed or cancelled. Once added to the pool of kami, souls can not be un-enshrined.

Never say never say. Do more research online. You'll be surprised.

Burning Bush

They cannot be removed.

Bet they could. If they really wanted to.

Nope.

They cannot be removed.

Bet they could. If they really wanted to.

The dead are listed by name only. Kami. They cannot be removed. There is no solution to remove the names of the 14 Class A war criminals.

The museum is pretty tone-deaf, but I think the main concern is the war criminals enshrine in the main shrine buildings.

Yasukuni 靖国 means peaceful country (if anyone is into pub quiz facts).

I understand it is the museum next door to the Yasukuni Shrine, that aggrieves offends

China suddenly began to see visits to Yasukuni Shrine as an issue when Prime Minister Nakasone visited in 1985, but even Zhou Enlai has visited the shrine.

If it had been an issue since right after the war, it would be understandable, but the Chinese Communist Party makes it an issue depending on the mood of the government at the time.

The only countries in all of Asia that officially see this as an issue are China and its stooge, South Korea, which are said to have suffered damage from the war.

It is nothing more than interference in domestic affairs and a diplomatic card.

To begin with, there is no recognition that Japanese people have a completely different view of religion from foreigners. Although it depends on the shrine, the idea of ​​viewing an enshrined person as absolutely sacred is a cult-like religious view, and is almost unthinkable among Japanese people.

It should be made clear that they are different from German neo-Nazis.

How many years have Japan Prime Minsters bowing until they are bent double?

Over 80% of the people of Japan weren't even born when Japan were at war.

Japan has the only constitution devoted to peace!

To be browbeaten into humiliation?

By one dictatorship after another who subsequently slaughters there own people?

If Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba visiting Yasukuni Shrine upsets the neighbours do it.

So, what?

What does he want? A cookie?

Do work!

Worry about actual important things!

Make actual progressive changes!

DanteKHToday  11:17 am JST

Just imagine politicians in Germany going to pay respects to the WW2 war criminals...

Guess you're too young to remember.

"President Ronald Reagan on this day in 1985 made an eight-minute visit to the German war cemetery in Bitburg. Helmut Kohl, the West German chancellor, had suggested the side trip to the cemetery, where some 2,000 German soldiers lie buried, to mark the 40th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe."

Helmut Kohl, Chancellor attended with Pres Reagan.

"49 of the 2,000 German soldiers buried at the site had been members of the Waffen-SS, the military arm of Nazi Germany's Schutzstaffel (SS). The entire SS had been judged to be a criminal organisation at the Nuremberg trials"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnEeG_TU1E

Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba has pledged an "oath" of office to put domestic priorities, to make safe regional security, to defend Japan from the scourge of dictatorships of Putin, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un.

If that mean making politically abrasive public gestures, as a show of intent towards belligerence then so be it.

Good. Time to stop offering prayers to enshrined war criminals.

itsonlyrocknrollToday  10:41 am JST

Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba must visit Yasukuni Shrine head held high, whether he desires to or not, send a clear message that if backed into a corner.

He is under no obligation whatsoever to do anything of the sort. He has the same freedom of religion as anyone else in Japan, including the right as a Christian not to visit a Shinto shrine.

Its purpose is educational

The lesson being “don’t attack our military outpost in the middle of the Pacific Ocean or we’ll incinerate not one but two populations of innocent civilians”. I mean, it’s not like viewers are there to pick up tips on air nautical engineering, they’re there to gawk in awe at America’s most notorious killing machine.

@DanteKH

Exactly, the ridiculous part about Japan, South Korea leader already try to cool down South Korea right wing faction and create more collaborative atmosphere with Japan during past few years. Out of sudden prior Japanese leader just decide to pay visit to that controversial shrine again. Japan just have no idea how to pay back good gesture to South Korean leader.

Just imagine politicians in Germany going to pay respects to the WW2 war criminals...

Proudly displayed, admired and revered. That better?

Hmmm. I would argue that the "proudly" part is subjective and likely to be in the eye of the beholder. I have been there and the explanatory signage (in English and Japanese) next to Enola Gay is pretty straighforward, with no evidence of gloating, admiration or reverence. The museum also displays military aircraft from Nazi Germany and Japan and its purpose is educational.

The salient point being your use of "enshrined," which, since it's a private, non-religious museum, needs to be differentiated from Yasukuni.

Proudly displayed, admired and revered. That better?

The salient point being...It's what delivered the war crime of incinerating civilians

The salient point being your use of "enshrined," which, since it's a private, non-religious museum, needs to be differentiated from Yasukuni.

The present day "militarization", the despotism the belligerence, the cynical political weaponization of historic grievances from the governments of Russian, Chinese , North Korean that could sooner or later provoke a global extinction crisis.

Japan's new Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba must draw on every political sinew, past and present to inspire the Japanese people nation to face the fact that Putin, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong Un will not hesitate to destabilise, to use force, to harass Japan.

Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba must visit Yasukuni Shrine head held high, whether he desires to or not, send a clear message that if backed into a corner.

Japan will draw on its past to secure its future.

TokyoLiving

Anyway, their country, their rules..

Those rules state a separation between state and religion. They need to follow them.

When America bright peace to Japan the dead of course should be honored. But the war criminals that did amazingly horrible things should take their place in hell forever.

The stupid pretext to justify warmongering..

The Enola Gay is enshrined in the Smithsonian Institution

And they still feel so proud of having evaporated a city full of innocents with that plane...

Pathetic..

No it's not. It is on display at the National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center.

The National Air and Space Museum is operated and curated by the Smithsonian

The salient point being...It's what delivered the war crime of incinerating civilians

https://airandspace.si.edu/

Good!

Anyway, their country, their rules..

The Enola Gay is enshrined in the Smithsonian Institution

No it's not. It is on display at the National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center.

“seen by its neighbors”??? Seen by the world. When you enshrine and honor to war criminals who did amazingly horrible things people get upset. When America bright peace to Japan the dead of course should be honored. But the war criminals that did amazingly horrible things should take their place in hell forever.

The Enola Gay is enshrined in the Smithsonian Institution

Some dude

It's the American hobby: telling other countries what they can and can't do.

Except it's Korea and China that object to it, not America.

Satoru

Why do you guys meddle in whether Japanese politicians go to Yasukuni? I never mind Americans go to Arlington National Cemetery, where many Killers in WW2 are buried as well.

Most soldiers, in times of war, are "killers". Only a very few are convicted war criminals. The latter are enshrined at Yasukuni, not Arlington.

It is only Japanese media and online rags that make Yasukuni an issue. Covering people's religious practices, prayers, funeral attendance, grave visits, etc. and spinning them in a sensationalized manner doesn't really help anyone. Despite Japanese media's best efforts to stir up things internationally, Ishiba has, thus far, taken the high road. Let his nobility and earnestness be a glowing example for the nation---especially the media.

Ishiba does not visit the Yasukuni Shrine. He always responds to the quetion why he does not by raising a question why Japanese Emperor has stopped visiting the shrine after 1978. The year 1978 was when the so-called Class A war criminals were enshrined.

dbsaiyaToday  08:11 am JST

Good. But I can bet you other factions will, especially Aso's protoge Takaichi. Same ol' LDP.

Of course. There's an election coming up. A chance to get on the news and spout the usual pious claptrap about praying for peace and thanking those who sacrificed their lives for Japan is just the ticket.

Why do you guys meddle in whether Japanese politicians go to Yasukuni? I never mind Americans go to Arlington National Cemetery, where many Killers in WW2 are buried as well.

Good. But I can bet you other factions will, especially Aso's protoge Takaichi. Same ol' LDP.

AND more importantly hopefully he will not send any offerings either!

“seen by its neighbors”??? Seen by the world. When you enshrine and honor war criminals who did amazingly horrible things, people get upset. When America brought peace to Japan the dead of course should be honored. But the war criminals that did amazingly horrible things should take their place in hell forever.

“seen by its neighbors”??? Seen by the world. When you enshrine and honor to war criminals who did amazingly horrible things people get upset. When America bright peace to Japan the dead of course should be honored. But the war criminals that did amazingly horrible things should take their place in hell forever.

Smart move,  offering condolences is the appropriate thing to do.

sakurasukiToday  06:51 am JST

Not going to that shrine? Really, isn't that part of "Japanese culture"

Going to shrines is part of Japanese culture. Talking to the media about it is PR.

Not going to that shrine? Really, isn't that part of "Japanese culture".