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Japan aims to conclude talks on cost-sharing for U.S. troops soon

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Japan, wary that the incoming administration under President-elect Joe Biden might ask for a bigger contribution to host the troops,

Interesting, I wounder what they would site as evidence that Binden Administration (made up of largely people from the Obama administration) would look for more contribution.

Trump was the one beating that drum.

Can any of the good people here offer rational?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Like the Roman and British Empires, the US requires its colonies to pay for their own military occupations.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Cost-sharing is a euphemism for a yakuza boss demanding protection money.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Like the Roman and British Empires, the US requires its colonies to pay for their own military occupations.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Like the Roman and British Empires, the US requires its colonies to pay for their own military occupations.

Like the Roman and British Empires, the US requires its allies to pay their fair share if they want an umbrella of protection.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Japan does pay.

More then any other U.S. Ally in the world. 3x as much as S. Korea for 3 times longer period of time.

Japan more then any other U.S. Ally has opened factories in America, employing close to a million U.S. Citizens, good paying jobs. While Ford, GM have closed down and moved to China.

Japan has contributed to the Korean War, Vietnam War because of distance and location. It has helped financially or with soldiers in more peaceful means in Iraq, Afghanistan, in the war against ISIS and other terrorist groups.

In any conflict in East Asia America expects Japan's support, or to use our bases, to shoot down ballistic missiles coming towards Hawaii, California, Mailand U.S.A.

Most Americans don't realize how much Japan is doing, has done, and will do in the future!

We would have done even more without Article 9 forced on Japan, and without the Plaza Accord which crippled our economy for 3 decades.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

one question-why Japan as sovereign country steel need US army at its soil years after war end and still Japan have to pay for it?whay Japan need waste own tax payers money for unecessary costs to cover US army stay and to do unecessary missiles etc shopping?

any serious thoughts or ideas?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

ReasonandWisdomNippon...thanks for clarifying for us that its actually Japan taking care of America. Good to know, US is so lucky to have Japan,s benevolence....( not to worry about little facts such as the US presence actually allowing Japan to rebuild after the war and channel all its resources into developing its industry instead of spending it on military budgets during all those Cold war decades )

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The US colonized Japan at the close of WWII to keep it from falling into the hands of the Russian or Chinese communists, as it did Europe with the Marshall Plan. It was not altruism that motivated them.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

without the Plaza Accord which crippled our economy for 3 decades.

How old were you in the 8ties? You write with benefit of hindsight.

I doubt any of the G5 could have foreseen the outcome of the Plaza accords as seen through today's eyes. Japan did benefit from it as well, the travel boom, the massive growth in foreign investments (but executed poorly by Japanese managers). Sekf inflicted.

USA suffered too, it saw production and manufacturing irreversably offshored (why China is the only winner).

Most pertinent is, what if it had not been implemented? IMHO, we would have massive protectionism and trade wars between free nations.

Remember the USD was overvalued because the free world needed USD to be the dominant currency, so as to have effective sanctions power and avoid war. So without the Plaza Accord, we might have seen more wars (trade and military).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I see this kind of article from time to time but I never see it explained what the U.S. wants Japan to increase its Cost Sharing for Hosting U.S. Troops spending on. Does the U.S. want Japan to build the U.S. Military more Golf Courses? Does the U.S. want Japan to build more U.S. Military Dependent Schools? Does the U.S. want Japan to give each U.S. Military Dependent a weekly spending allowance? The Japanese Govt. has built first class Housing, Dependent Schools and Leisure Facilities for U.S. Military Personnel and their Families and spends far more than any other country in the world to host the U.S. Military so what more is that the U.S. wants.

The Philippines is also under the U.S. Umbrella of protection and the U.S. is committed to defend them so how many U.S. Military Bases are in the Philippines and how much money does the Philippines give to the U.S. for their protection? Also other countries in this area that the U.S. is committed to defend besides Japan and SK, how much money do they give the U.S. for their protection? Since U.S. Bases in Japan would be used to defend countries like the Philippines, it seems to me that the Japanese Taxpayers are paying for the defense of some countries who are getting a free ride.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

i always wonder if Japan say no to the cost sharing, what will happen? after all it is tax-payers hard-earned money, it shall be used for social benefits like education, medical, infrastructure, disaster relief etc. The last thing on earth the money shall be spent is on some fantasy protection fees. yeah Japan need not US protection, thank you and you can all leave in peace if you didnt get the money

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Yep. The client state of America will always shoulder the costs. Not to mention that Japanese money is American anyway - via subsidized Japanese trade deficits with the USA, essentially the USA gave money to Japan as long as they use the USD.

however, Japan is fading away as a relevant world manufacturing power. The USA is seeking closer replacements to Japan in India and Vietnam. This is pretty much why Japan accepts all costs to keep the USA noticing Japan.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Japan pays for 100% of the base infrastructures. I worked at Zama for years.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Total cost of all overseas American bases is about $25 billion out of a defense budget of about $800 billion and shutting them down would save almost zero bucks.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan pays enough for the US presence. America is in Japan and South Korea so that it has multiple bases and options when it comes to monitoring China, Russia and North Korea. America gets much out of these relationships and Japan get protection under the US nuclear umbrella. If Japan had to develop, build and maintain its own Nuclear deterrent it would cost much more than the $1.95 Billion dollars it pays each year for the US presence. And in addition the 55,000 US personnel spend money in Japan adding to its economy.

A fair deal all around for both sides as it stands right now. Win win is the best anyone can expect.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Most pertinent is, what if it had not been implemented? IMHO, we would have massive protectionism and trade wars between free nations.

This is a political and “would have should have” response when the op mentioned real economic consequences of the Accord. The yen shooting up 46% is crippling to say the least.

 and without the Plaza Accord which crippled our economy for 3 decades.

What is also crippling is Japan’s mentality of being a little Kohai to the US and UK Sempai, being afraid of criticism from the west and acquiescing to the west. Late, ineffective monetary policies along with financial crisis from other countries are the causes of the long slump,

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Trump was demanding $8 billion when the total cost is $5 billion with Japan paying about $3 billion in total.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“would have should have” response when the op mentioned real economic consequences of the Accord. The yen shooting up 46% is crippling to say the least

There's always two sides of the coin. It can also mean over two years, without lifting a finger, Japanese people's spending power increased by 46%. The same happened with Germany. That's wealth shifted from USA to Japan and Germany without any hardwork (increase in productivity).

Corporate Japan decided to invest (but without financial disciplines) all over the world with their easy money, buying anything that smells of money. This was Japan's chance at leading the world, it squandered it with silly investments. Germany on the other hand ploughed money into modernizing its industries, funding re-unification and shoring up high value manufacturing. Germany didn't have a travel boom either.

IMHO, the poor consequences for USA and Japan were all self inflicted, and only realized when it was too late.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Well hope in one hand and ...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Corporate Japan decided to invest (but without financial disciplines) all over the world with their easy money, buying anything that smells of money. This was Japan's chance at leading the world, it squandered it with silly investments. Germany on the other hand ploughed money into modernizing its industries, funding re-unification and shoring up high value manufacturing. Germany didn't have a travel boom either.

Precisely. This is why Japan got hit the hardest by the Plaza Accord.

What is also crippling is Japan’s mentality of being a little Kohai to the US and UK Sempai, being afraid of criticism from the west and acquiescing to the west. Late, ineffective monetary policies along with financial crisis from other countries are the causes of the long slump,

Japanese people feel insulted if you label them as "Asians". It pretty much provides a context on how Japan keeps being the thirsty "white-drawn" girl (in typical trash anime) lingering for the notices of Anglosphere senpais.

China and South Korea gave up on that dream long ago.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Japan and the UK: America's giant unsinkable aircraft carriers strategically positioned off the coast of two continents.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

American is so kind to provide nuclear umbrella to Japan, American is an angel. Let us all ask the first question, anyone ask you to come here and provide the umbrella? or it is you who come without invitation and threaten people to accept the umbrella? Nuclear threat from whom? did you know that how many countries neighboring with China and N.Korea live a happy peaceful life without the so called "umbrella" from America?? Did China/NK threaten Japan with any nuclear weapon? the answer is NO. the fairy tales exist just to collect protection money, exactly the same style like Yakuza

4 ( +7 / -3 )

These days, the UK is more of a spying outpost than an unsinkable American carrier. Limited miltary presence these days. Just American's early warning station for a Russian nuclear attack.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Ego Sum Lux Mundi

Japan and the UK: America's giant unsinkable aircraft carriers strategically positioned off the coast of two continents.

These days the UK is just a spying and listening post, spying on American citizens and listening for a Russian nuke attack.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Japan has paid an annual 201.7 billion yen, or about $2 billion, to support U.S. bases in Japan for the past 5 years. Not only that, but Japan has shouldered and will keep shouldering payments (rents) to the private landholders of bases, thus allowing U.S. forces in Japan for free use of them. Should there occur damages from the bases, it's Japan that must take full responsibility and pay indemnity.

Trump thinks this is not enough and demanded Japan pay four times more. Japan hopes to keep its annual payment at the same level as the last five years. This itself is absurd and exorbitant, but Trump's negotiating tactics seem to have worked well. Incoming Biden must thank to Trump for the windfall if Japan agreed to maintain the current level of expenses.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Japan more then any other U.S. Ally has opened factories in America, employing close to a million U.S. Citizens, good paying jobs. While Ford, GM have closed down and moved to China and even has contributed to the Korean War, Vietnam War because of distance and location. It has helped financially or with soldiers in more peaceful means in Iraq, Afghanistan, in the war against ISIS and other terrorist groups. In any conflict in East Asia America expects Japan's support, or to use our bases, to shoot down ballistic missiles coming towards Hawaii, California, Mailand U.S.A.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

America expects Japan's support

I think American knows it has Japan's support.

Abe just got awarded the 'Legion of Merit' from Trump for championing the alliance and commitment to free and open Indo-Pacific.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The US has long sought a 50/50 cost sharing arrangement. It is only Trumpism that seeks to make a profit from staging US troops overseas. Once Biden is in office, sanity and morality will return to American policy.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan pays more than 50% of the costs with add ons.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

one question-why Japan as sovereign country steel need US army at its soil years after war end and still Japan have to pay for it?whay Japan need waste own tax payers money for unecessary costs to cover US army stay and to do unecessary missiles etc shopping?

any serious thoughts or ideas?

Until very recently no nation in Asia wanted to see Japan have any possible reason to re-arm. Memories of IJA butchery are strong. It was accepted all across Asia that having US forces in Japan adequately provided for their defense while relieving Japan of any reason for feeling the need to fully rearm. When I served in the US military there was also some who expressed the opinion that the US had to prevent a re-militarized Japan for the US's own national security. There are still some alive today who remember the barbarities of the IJA and my own uncle was one who suffered a life long disability fighting them on Guadalcanal. There is not a lot of trust of the Japanese and a fear that if they ever re-armed it would be the 1930s all over again. Every time some right wing knucklehead in Japan flaps his yap about it was Chinese soldiers dressed in Japanese uniforms who slaughtered all those people in Nanjing (a lie on the scale of something the CCP would tell) or that the Comfort Women were not slaves the rest of Asia is thankful the US military is in Japan to keep them from becoming a menace again. The only event that has moderated this view among Japan's neighbors is the ascension of Xi Jinping and his wolf warrior "diplomats". Now all of Asia fears China more than Japan and sees Japan as an object of China's aggression and as such a natural ally. There is your answer. Maybe not what you wanted to hear though.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Desert Tortoise, i am sorry to hear your uncle suffered on Guadalcanal. Anyway please bear in mind also that how many Japan CIVILIANS died during nuclear bombing? Lemay burning of Tokyo? not to say from WWII until now modern days, how many tax-payers hard-earned money goes into American military base? The money supposed to be spent on Japanese welfare. Lastly, we both know, the whole world know, after WWII, Japan already have no intention to use her military force to conquer any other countries. It is a very very lame excuse that America presence can prevent Japan to re-arm. Dont forget that largest weapon seller to Japan is America, please dont forget that

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Desert Tortoise, i am sorry to hear your uncle suffered on Guadalcanal. Anyway please bear in mind also that how many Japan CIVILIANS died during nuclear bombing? Lemay burning of Tokyo?

Japan didn't have to attack China, British holdings in Hong Kong and Singapore, French Indochina, Dutch East Indies or the US. None of Japan's attacks were even remotely justified. Was the US supposed to just look the other way while Japan invaded Guam, Philippines, Wake Island and sank a chunk of the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor? Do nothing while American forces are attacked and US territory invaded? Say, aw-shucks we're nice guys and we don't want to hurt anyone with a big nasty war? And Japan certainly didn't have to enslave their prisoners as the Japanese did. Only about 40% of allied POWs survived captivity with the Japanese while it was closer to 90% survived Nazi POW camps. Do you think an amphibious assault on Japan followed by a conventional land campaign would have been any less costly than the air campaign that brought Japan down? Once Japan started attacking other nations they kind of deserved what they got INHO. Sorry for the hard opinions but my family had skin in that war. My mother was part of the Manhattan Project btw and another uncle had a tanker torpedoed out from under him while my dad's Army division was stuck with cleaning up the mess Mussolini created on the Italian-Yugoslav border, getting shot at by Tito's forces after the Germans surrendered while the Allies tried to figure out who owned what on that border, so you will never get an apology out of us for what the US did to the Axis. You can still see the wreck of the USS Arizona just beneath the surface of Pearl Harbor. USS Utah is still there too with over 400 sailors entombed inside. It was never possible to salvage her though not for lack of trying. Japan's invasion of China indirectly brought Mao into power and that was a big tragedy for our family too. Yet Japan has never given the US or the other allies a formal apology for starting that war and Japan's schools teach outright lies on the matter. So no, Japan has not atoned in the manner the Germans have and the ill considered comments from some of Japan's far right politicians make us all wonder if Japan learned anything from that war or even realizes the horrors they inflicted on us. This is why the distrust rightfully lingers, even as I have sailed with and admire the JMSDF, the government and institutions of Japan have shortcomings that create distrust to this day.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Very long continuous posts without paragraphs are impossible to read. So I won't try.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Desert Tortoise

i can tell you like to talk about the old days and my family contribute this and that to the war. If you want to talk about war, please go and visit those who have scar in their life ( not only on the skin ) like Lemay burning, my lai massacres, i hope you have no friends participate in that cruel and animal massacres.

Yeah more allied POW died during Japan war time, but i can assure you more CIVILIANS and innocent CHILDRENS die during American invasion. Since you like to talk about your glorious time during war, i pray and i hope you never shoot a civilians or any unarmed kids during your days.

Anyway we need not to talk about history now, the whole world know Japan repent and after WWII, they never have a single war. If you want to compared it with American, maybe you can tell better than me after WWII how many so called liberation war American get involved in.

yeah, before i forgot, you want to talk about war prisoners nowadays? please go check the scandals the allied army did in iraq or middle east nations, Guantanamo prison ? i hope you have good memory to remember all this before you indulge yourself with the Hollywood war movies.

yeah, you want to talk about trust, maybe we can discuss it with Kurds.

i believe after WWII, Japan did far far far more better and they respect human life more than any other countries. The fact speak louder

0 ( +1 / -1 )

whole world know Japan repent and after WWII,

That is the crux of the problem. Japan has never really atoned for their barbarities committed during their colonization of Korea, occupation of China and WWII. The Germans have atoned, but not the Japanese. That is the truth. You never see Japanese delegations at ceremonies commemorating their worst barbarities laying wreaths at their former POW camps or the sites of IJA massacres while apologizing for these acts as the Germans have many times, including annually at some of their more infamous concentration camps. The Germans openly apologize and ask for forgiveness. The Japanese never do. An expression of "regret" is about the strongest language the Japanese can muster. You never see a Japanese delegation laying a wreath and apologizing at the USS Arizona Memorial on December 7th. In fact Japan has never formally apologized for attacking Pearl Harbor. Some atonement! Also unlike the Germans the Japanese to this day refuse to teach their kids the full story of WWII. Like you they know lots and lots about the American bombing campaign and next to nothing about the events that led to that bombing campaign. You are in fact a poster child for the shortcomings of Japanese teaching about that war, still clinging to this view that somehow the Japanese were the victims while ignoring the horrors inflicted on half the world in the name of the Emperor.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

That is the crux of the problem. Japan has never really atoned for their barbarities committed during their colonization of Korea, occupation of China and WWII.

I agree. There have been some acknowledgements of what happened, but there have been as many denials. In the eyes of the global community, Japan has never made a concerted effort at atonement like Germany did. Japan decided on its own that their atonement is a done thing, but the rest of the world didn't agree. And that's the standoff that's been going on for decades.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sh1mon M4sada: Dec. 22 | 06:35 pm JST,

Abe just got awarded the 'Legion of Merit' from Trump for championing the alliance and commitment to free and open Indo-Pacific.

What a comedy! Trump granted pardons to 26 lawbreakers yesterday in addition to 15 others, including son-in-lawJared Kushner's father, Charles Kushner, who is serving a prison term for tax evasion. Trump's granting of the Merit of Legion to Abe must be considered in this vein, an extension of granting pardons to criminals and suspicious criminals.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

yeah, before i forgot, you want to talk about war prisoners nowadays? please go check the scandals the allied army did in iraq or middle east nations, Guantanamo prison ? i hope you have good memory to remember all this before you indulge yourself with the Hollywood war movies.

And for the sake of clarity I have said many times that what the US did in terms of renditions, secret detentions and torture are war crimes that must be punished as such, right up to and including ( and especially ) John Yoo, Dick Cheney and George H. W. Bush. The Code of Conduct training I received as a Navy pilot came from people like Doug Hegdahl and Jeremiah Denton (go ahead and Google them to understand who they are and why what they say matters). They are heros to me. When they stand before you and tell you we don't torture our prisoners not because they are good people but because Americans are not barbarians who abuse their captives. Over and over it was drilled into our heads the never obey an illegal order, and that any violation of the Geneva Conventions is indeed an illegal order. Over and over again we were told that if we did violate the Geneva Conventions the Navy would prosecute is mercilessly because by doing so we would have dishonored the Navy and the whole nation. I guess Army Code of Conduct training is maybe not so emphatic but it was a kick to my gut to see members of the armed forces I served and still serve proudly both violate the Geneva Conventions and worse still get away with it. It is a disgrace the US will need many years to live down, if it ever can.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What a comedy! Trump granted pardons to 26 lawbreakers yesterday in addition to 15 others, including son-in-lawJared Kushner's father, Charles Kushner, who is serving a prison term for tax evasion. 

Of all the pardons granted that given Charles Kushner offends me the most. Usually Presidential pardons are given to repentant prisoners who have become model prisoners and who are doing things to help other prisoners. Not the pardons of this President.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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