Japan asks China to pay for damage to patrol boats

WHY? No need to do so. Tell China to go to hell!!

The Japanese government is loath to show the conclusive video evidence for the obvious reasons it will create more aversion in Japan and embarrassing the Chinese is not going to have any positive effects.

I think Kan is covering up the video because it will show that the Chinese boat deliberately rammed the Coast Guard cutters. That will make his release of the boat captain look like yet another example of a vassal state grovelling before the Dragon Throne. Which will tank his approval rating even further - he went down 20 points from the high 60's before the captain's release to the high 40's after the release. Once that video is released, he'll be lucky to have an approval rating in the low 30's, meaning that he could end up giving up his position as prime minister.

call attention to the fact, cause and effect, what happens to a society that fails to learn from history...

Funny you should say that. I wrecked my brain and then recalled a nation that fits the bill perfectly. And it isn't Japan.

And by the way, the issue at hand has nothing to do with past atrocities, because skeletons in the closet keep popping up everywhere and at any time in history. Let's not elaborate because it will paint a grim picture you don't want to contemplate.

The point here is that Japan is asking China for compensation instead of paying up for something it did not instigate. And rightly so. Chinaman illegally fishing in Japanese (administered, whether you like it or not) territory, refusing to obey commands by the coast guard, trying to defy authority, respond with aggression, resulting in damage to government property. Where is the proof you ask. I'll answer the question with another question. Did the Chinese authorities monitor the fisherman's mission with a satellite? Let's munch on that. Did Japan want to create an incident with big brother? More munching.

The Japanese government is loath to show the conclusive video evidence for the obvious reasons it will create more aversion in Japan and embarrassing the Chinese is not going to have any positive effects.

It's all over Red Rover. When was the last time you went into a convenience store where the staff were not all Chinese. The takeover is over and no amount of hot air can disguise the fact that Japanese Govt has lost any ability to manage both its domestic or foreign affairs.

Today, in his National Foundation Day speech, Premier Wen actually had to explicitly say that China is not a threat to anyone.

Too late. Nobody believes him. And rightly so. Why would you believe the soothing words of someone who's holding a knife at your throat? Google this essay title ("Conflict Prevention and Confidence Building Measures between Japan and China") for an interesting article, written by a Japanese admiral, about Chinese Communist Party military actions since its Civil War victory in 1949. Here's what he has to say: "It is my conclusion from the above facts; the threshold for Chinese use of force is very low."

Problem is Japan needs something from China more than China needs something from Japan.

Let's say Japan stops all exports to China (not that this will ever happen, but just let's say) of products and components. China will come to a complete stop.

Japan Wins!!!!

Today, in his National Foundation Day speech, Premier Wen actually had to explicitly say that China is not a threat to anyone. I guess he finally understood what the Japanese have always understood: how the world perceives the situation. China has been condemned universally. China may be right about the islands or the company employees in restricted military area, but that does not matter. China's reaction is what the world focussed on: it was from the 19th century, not the 21st century. China made itself look scary. (apologies for the cross-posting)

Logic about "who is right" and "who is wrong" is meaningless. What is important is only what do you want and what will you give.

Japan has done a horrible job at cleaning up the mess it caused by its 77 year imperialist binge after the 1868 restoration of imperial power. I point to that fact that Japan is still technically at war with Russia as prove of how willing Japan is to not resolve important issue and move forward with constructive dialog.

That said, Japan is great at using delay tactics to get what they want because most people/countries get frustrated. Japan is trying to use this time proven technique with China. Problem is Japan needs something from China more than China needs something from Japan.

KAN is a fool to think his little ploy is going to work. I am very pro-Japan but this "pay for the damaged boat" is so silly it gives me the impression that the government's top leaders are children. If I were advising the Chinese, I would tell them to not respond. This issue will bury Kan if he is not careful.

The American military planners (recently screwed by Japan’s predictable drag out base negotiations plan) love seeing all this drama, and it would not be surprised if Chinese and American diplomats are drinking beers right now shaking their head about how non-sensical the Japan response is. Many Japanese people love this “get tough with China” posturing, but it is so inappropriate given how important Chinese natural resources are.

@limboinjapan

As for protesting I again suggest you have a little stroll over towards the Japanese government offices on any given day of the week and you will see plenty of protesters, criticizing the government on everything from health care to foreign policy.

Fair enough, you're point is made, I am certainly not an expert on domestic japan politics, but it just seems quite peculiar, that the only ones that make the news, involve protesting the U.S., or something related to the U.S.

As for your children being taught all about the atrocities, although I am bit skeptical of this this statement, you should consider yourself and family lucky enough, to have found a school or district that will teach them anything at all regarding events in the 1900 ~ 1945 range. Good for you, and good for them.

My point isn't to call all Japanese a bunch of war criminals, it would be quite a stretch to say there might be more than a few hundred even alive today, that participated in those such atrocities, but rather to call attention to the fact, cause and effect, what happens to a society that fails to learn from history...

The Vietnam war is taught in American history books and schools, most american's other than a few neocon's like Bush, Cheney and some other war monger, draft dodgers, truly believe the war was bad thing to do, hence, you will see thousands and thousands of protesters, every time, the military does anything.... And I mean, literally anything....

Bottom line, Japan does not clearly understand what kind of relations it created 60+ years ago, if they did, You would never read about incidents like this, they would never happen. Those islands are close enough to geographical China (albeit Taiwan) to spit on.

Ok...now Japan is asking China to pay for damage to its patrol boats??? How about some TPO, and let things cool down a bit, I do not think the communist dictatorship in Beijing is in the mind set to talk about helping out Tokyo with the damage caused by some old, bald Chinese fisherman with and old baseball cap. How about someone donating better gear to this old dude from China?? He looks more like some peasant from the country side of Shizuoka etc..

@mindovermatter:

I am a big critic of Japan's victim "poor us" garbage but I have to tell you that you need to look around a bit more.

My children are both in Japanese school and they were both told about most (not all) of the atrocities (including Nanking) and they even came home to ask me if it was all true.

As for protesting I again suggest you have a little stroll over towards the Japanese government offices on any given day of the week and you will see plenty of protesters, criticizing the government on everything from health care to foreign policy, the fact is there are so many that the news doesn't even bother reporting them any more unless they get violent!

This is Japan and things are still not up to the modern age when it come to political campaigning and protesting they still run around at the stations and near the parliament with banners and bullhorns.

Japan handled this as best they could because China was going to push the envelope no mater what, it want the gas and it wants it all for it's self period.

Bringing up Japan's past aggression and not those of China in all this is irrelevant unless you want to white wash China's past (and present) and make Japan look like the bad guy.

Problem with Japanese Government is the lack of consistent strong leadership and communication skills with neighboring countries.

Well. that's one of them...

Another one is the fact that Japanese have no recollection of history greater than 50 years ago, 70% of the Japanese population, still view Japan as a victim of WW2.... WHY..? Because Japan doesn't teach REAL History and what really happened from around 1900 ~ 1945!

If they did, you would never read about BS incidents like this...

This is the major reason Japan has such problems with ALL their neighbors.

Funny thing too, you never see any protests in Japan, where the people are protesting the Government, UNLESS it's about the Japanese Government helping the U.S.

But where's the outrage over the government acting like idiots in this instance...?

Problem with Japanese Govenment is the lack of consistant strong leadership and communication skills with neighboring countries. Japan has instability in leadeship from top down and with the revolving door on PM, this is creating weak govenment. If you look at the way Japanese look at Chinese workers working for Japanese companies, the blatent segregation and racism continues almost everyday with all of the companies that lack opportunities for the promotion and advancement of Chinese skill workers. The Japanese companies has to do a better job on promoting non-Japanese workers to a entry and mid-level management position. The trust has to be built but Japan still refuse to do this.

Junnama at 01:18 PM JST - 28th SeptemberThose islands were ceded to japan in 1895. Period.

So what. So was Kurile Island ceded to Russia in 1945. Period.

So you haven't seen the video but you read something in the web article and came to conclusion of "Overwhelming Evidence"? How ridiculous.

My judgement is based on several linked articles with comments from representatives from JCD. The videos were captured from two JCD vessels along with GPS data submitted to the prosecutors. JCD has urged the Ministry to release the video to the public for weeks leading up the release. And then you have the Naha prosecutors stating that they decided to release him based on limiting the damages of Japan-China relations. And now, JCD is pi$$ed off.

It's not a concrete evidence but a simple logic tells me that the reason they are pi$$ed off is because JCD was convinced that they submitted enough evidence to prosecute the guy. In any case, it's certain more plausible than your theory which as usual, offer no links/evidence to support it.

mindovermatter & michaelqtodd:

Do you both not know how most other countries would have handled a ship (foreign or not) running from its coastguard and then ramming them? The thought of Swiss Cheese boat come to mind!

Luckily Japan's coastguard is not as trigger happy as most other places we should be thankful for that.

Had it been the other way around (as is was with some Vietnamese Ship in the past) the Japanese boat would have possibly had several dead crew members.

@mindovermatter Could not agree more but still they go on. Has got to the stage where almost nothing surprises me any more when it comes to Japanese government stupidity

Japan asks China to pay for damage to patrol boats

Unbelievable.... And the hits just keep on coming...

Japan! How about just leaving the matter alone...?

Patrol boats are NOT suppose to be aggressors, the are public safety officers... Even if the Chinese wacko captain, intentionally tried to hit you, you're NOT suppose to play bumper cars, with large ships.

Why doesn't Japan just be the bigger party in this dual of wacko's....

Both countries are acting like a bunch of spoiled rotten kids... No harm, No Foul, everyone is ok, nobody was killed, just let it go Japan... You ran amuck with your military 60+ years ago all over Asia, everyone else, except Japan, remembers exactly what you did!

Here's a novel idea, how about showing the world, Japan can be the bigger, better person in the dual of knit-whits, and just leave it alone...

This is about as silly as Japan demanding the Northern Islands back from Russia... You wreck havoc all across Asia, raping and pillaging, not giving a damn about anyone else, but then after things don't go your way and you end up being beat, you want everything back the way it was when you started... TOO BAD! Grow UP!!! You made your bed, now you have to learn to live with the world around you, and all the sore feelings.

About 15 years ago China didn't care about islands or waters at all or who administered them. Till Beijing realized that these islands and waters could be very important for China's growth. Since then they suddenly showed up with irrelevant ancient maps and irrelevant historical facts and started disputes with countries because all of sudden now these islands and waters are undisputed Chinese territories. China, you're about to cross the limit and you're gonna pay for it if you do. Wise up while you still can because more and more signals from other world powers indicate that you're standing alone.

efisher:

Do you read what others write in reply to your statements?

I asked this because I have given you and answer to everything you just wrote many times before and all my replies were based on facts and can all be looked up easily and logically.

Again island are actually closer to the Okinawan island that it is administrated by, than any Taiwan or China territories.

@limboinjapan

What you said is just the Japan's argument. China doesn’t agree.

Japan argues that the "Islets" wasn't included in the Shimonoseki treaty, because the "Islands" has been "discovered", as so-called "no man's land", by a Japanese man several years before the treaty.

In fact, the "Islets" is very close to Taiwan and is part of Taiwan much long before Japan purportedly "discovered" it. It is an indisputable historical fact that the "Islets" have been Chinese territory since ancient times.

By the Shimonoseki treaty after a war, Japan obtained Taiwan and its nearby Islets (Diaoyu Islands is its nearby Islets). Taiwan and its nearby Islets were returned to China after Japan's surrender in WWII.

@Junnama, efisher, techall:

The islands were never ceded in 1895 they were incorporated prior to Shimonoseki treaty and were never part of any area considered as China or Taiwan and that is why they were part of the USA administered Okinawa and then returned to Japan.

The were returned by treaty. These islands were not.

All of Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895. Saipan was ceded to the japanese by a League of Nations mandate in 1922, but they ain't getting that back either. When you make war on your neighbors, you can't expect them to honor commitments they made before you started killing them. Period.

@Junnama

Yes, those islands, as part of Taiwan, were once ceded. However, Taiwan had been returned to China after Japan's surrender in WWII.

Those islands were ceded to japan in 1895. Period.

@limboinjapan

I prefer we discuss calmly, frank and friendly. Anyway, I think the true is that the "Islands" wasn't a "no man's land" while Japan purportedly "discovered" it. All the people living near the coast in Mainland China and Taiwan tell us that their ancestors have been fishing nearby the "Islands" and they always regard the "Islands" as part of the territory of China. Their grandparents told them so, and their grand-grandparents told their grandparents so. It is impossible for so many Chinese people to join together to make an untrue story.

You said "these island are" "internationally" "recognized as Japan's". It seems that you didn't really read the news carefully. No country ever did so. Even US doesn't recognize that the “Islands” sovereign belongs to Japan. After the recent conflict, the US official stance is "we do not take a position on the respective territorial claims of China and Japan" (as per Whitehouse’s official announcement).

SamuraiBlue at 08:26 AM JST - 28th September. The JCG Patrol ship Yonakuni(PL-116) is 77m long and weighs 1200tonnes with speeds of 20 kn. Hardly a Porsche, the PRC fishing boat was much smaller and much agile. In any case the law of the sea dictates that a ship is required to stop and accept boarding when requested by the standing authority. It was perfectly legal for the JCG to sink the ship that fled since it could have been a pirate ship or worse judging from the ship's action

I doubt it. How do you know that Chinese fishing boat was that much agile. Probably the top speed of slow ship at 10-12kn? Again, if you didn't know, even though it's larger, Japanese CG has substantial advantage in speed and agility.

It's not clear cut with rules in the international waters as you state. Sometimes the ship has navigation problems, mechanical, illness, weather, lack of sleep, or other reasons. Regardless of right or wrong, just because they enter your waters, if you think it's perfectly legal for Japan to board or to sink the Chinese civilian ship, think again, you are creating a international incident that is lasting and troublesome. If you sink the Chinese vessel, you can expect Chinese military or economic retaliation immediately. At all possible cost, CG needs to handle it diplomatically with experience personnel and document with video, photos, etc with facts. The conflict is the last thing Japan wants with China. it's not worth it.

@ sfjp330

The JCG Patrol ship Yonakuni(PL-116) is 77m long and weighs 1200tonnes with speeds of 20 kn. Hardly a Porche, the PRC fishing boat was much smaller and much agile.

In any case the law of the sea dictates that a ship is required to stop and accept boarding when requested by the standing authority. It was perfectly legal for the JCG to sink the ship that fled since it could have been a pirate ship or worse judging from the ship's action.

SamuraiBlue at 07:14 AM JST - 28th September. A boat cannot make a tailspin so the logical conclusion is that the PRC boat rammed the JCG ship not the other way around.

You're saying it's the PRC's fault, but I will ask you too, did you see the video? What your saying is JCG with the manuverability of Porche 911 was caused by slow snail pace Chinese1960 truck and JCG couldn't avoid the collision? If you look at the front portion of the JCG where the damages are located from the collision, it looks like JCG made a sudden right turn in the path of Chinese fishing vessel. This is why it's important that Japan govenment releases the video so that there is no discrepancies to the facts for the world to see.

A lot of pictures has been released of the JCG ship with it's stern starboard side damaged due to the collision. A boat cannot make a tailspin so the logical conclusion is that the PRC boat rammed the JCG ship not the other way around.

nigelboy at 06:43 AM JST - 28th Septembe. Have you seen the video?. Nope.

"NOPE" What does this mean to you? So you haven't seen the video but you read something in the web article and came to conclusion of "Overwhelming Evidence"? How ridiculous.

How do you know? Have you seen the video? Give me evidence.

Nope. I wanted to link the source to my argument but apparently the mods are touchy in this thread for whenever I try to post it, it states.

"You comment was not posted because it contains potentially offensive content. Please edit and try again".

you can start by searching "鋭角の鉄の船首でぶつかってきた"

nigelboy at 05:28 AM JST - 28th September. For second time, the unwillingness for the administration to release the video is that it supports the argument in the Japanese public that the Cabinet did in fact pressure the Naha prosecutors to release the captain despite the overwhelming evidence presented by the Japan Coast Guard.

How do you know? Have you seen the video? Give me evidence.

If China was indeed a "Superpower", they would laugh and give the Japanese Coast Guard double the repair costs. They won't do that, because they are amateurs. And the reason the Japanese government released the captain, was to preempt the release of the four Japanese nationals held for "spying".

It smells fishy.

For second time, the unwillingness for the administration to release the video is that it supports the argument in the Japanese public that the Cabinet did in fact pressure the Naha prosecutors to release the captain despite the overwhelming evidence presented by the Japan Coast Guard.

Hahaha, yea Right. China isn't going to pay just like Japan isn't going to apologize, there is too much pride in the way on both sides.

How can Japan or any other country think seriously about dealing with a country that would stoop so low that it would use children as part of it strategy Japanese High schools had to cancel planed school trips to China because the Chinese authorities said it would not be possible for them to meet with their Chinese counterparts.

Forget asking for and apology just ask for the $ 1.2 billion back, cancel all the patent use deals and find another more mature trading partner.

Anyway most of the got stuff I have in my place are made in Japan, Korea, Malaysia and Indonesia the cheap junk that keeps breaking is made in China, I avoid Chinese made things they just don't last.

Could be that the JCG are taking their time mixing an appropriate soundtrack to go with that video~

chiisaishima at 03:03 AM JST - 28th September. Both can present their evidence there.

Japanese govenment has the 3 hour video on the event that led up to collision. If Japan is right, they should release the video and let the world see it. If you look at the damage of Japanese CG, it looks like CG cut in front of the pathway of the Chinese fishing boat. It smells fishy.

@chiisaishima:"Wonder why the Japanese never challenge the Chinese to take it up with the International Courts. Are they afraid that their case may be too weak to win?"

As I understand it the ICJ process is that one country has to basically "sue" the other, so that means the ball is in China's court if they want to file a claim they can but it is not up to Japan to do so seeing that internationally these island are recognized as Japan's.

I think that is the part many here don't get under international law the islands are viewed and recognized as Japan's and only China disputes that fact!

@efisher; "To be frank, we here in Hong Kong think that Japan's claim is something like "reverse possession" in law"

Your argument is pure nonsense. What are you saying? What you just wrote has no legal meaning at all.

If you in Hong Kong or anywhere else in China think Japan got these islands by any non legal means and IF China has any proof then the civilized process if to go to the ICJ!

Don't go writing things that have no meaning, but I think I'm stating to get you, basically your saying in court Japan will win because they got these islands by following the internationally accepted process and that's not fair because China didn't think of it first.

Japan doesn't realistically expect payment for the damage. All they are doing is getting it on the public records that "Yes, we released your guy because you whine like a giant baby. However, we want to remind you that your citizen smashed into one of our boats and you are still acting like a petulant child." All Japan is doing is, "Hey international community! Look at the big fat whiny unstable baby with entitlement issues! Do you really want to do business with these people?"

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that China's rise is based on its exports... which is based on the idea that "China is good for business". Having China appear scary is an opportunity for India and other stable asian countries to take business away and to perhaps take China down a notch.

Given the arrogance by which China executes its international affairs, a strong China is a frightening one for all countries in asia, not just Japan...

Ever since the Cairo Accords of 1943 Japan has tried to justify their very existence and CVhina has swallowed and tried to ignore Japan's needeling. I look for China to give Japan a present! A super pletonium Nuclear Bomb right in the middle of the Ginza - and there will be no more Japanese government -or anything else.

This dispute should be settled in the international Court of Justice. Both can present their evidence there. Japan can take the lead to bring this case to the courts given that they seem to understand the principle the rule of law better than the Chinese. Wonder why the Japanese never challenge the Chinese to take it up with the International Courts. Are they afraid that their case may be too weak to win?

@limboinjapan

To be frank, we here in Hong Kong think that Japan's claim is something like "reverse possession" in law. It might be valid in some cases. The main consideration here in Hong Kong is that those "reverse possession" occurred in a series of events that Japan seemed to act in a non-gentleman's way and not honorable enough (just be frank, so no offence)

@nigelboy

I think that people in both sides should listen to the arguments raised by the counter-party. Actually, most of the people just make argument without a good study of the data/info. I won't say that I have read all the material/data and I am absolutely right. Anyway, I am not an expert in the issue.

As I said before, people in both sides should exchange information.

@efisher:

You still do not address the main point!

If both Chinas are so sure they have proof that these islands are China's then why don't they file with the ICJ instead of constantly confronting Japan and making demands?

@limboinjapan

Your points are well received and I appreciate your patience in discussion.

So far, I didn't read any material that China acknowledged that the "Islands" belong to Japan. If you have, I would be much pleased to forward to my compatriots.

You are right to say that both Chinas were suppressing their people in the past. The leaders were busy in power struggle with each other and didn’t care to voice out for the “Island”. If one knows the severity of the chaos, he won’t be surprised at that.

Actually, China is on her right track only after 1979. The present Chinese Chairman Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao want to take further political reform. However, there are resistances from the conservatives. I hope the people in the world may support China in her reform. The recent conflict with Japan do no good to both sides. The hardliners in China is getting bigger influence now.

As I am in Hong Kong, I have all the free access to available information. Here in Hong Kong, we also discussed the arguments put forwarded by Japan. We acknowledge that some arguments should be considered by China

And yet you still fail to realize that China has absolutely zero credibility in their argument? What's the point of having access to information when one can't still comprehed their own absurd argument?

Furthermore, I'm not sure why anyone thinks Japan arresting the fishing boat crew is that outrageous. Ask the Vietnamese fishermen who the Chinese held for months, in assuredly far more ghastly conditions, for drifting into the Paracel islands during a hurricane about how they feel and you wouldn't get level of vitriol you see here. Some of the responses are just ridiculous.

Good for you Japan! Stand up to the bully!

And the source of this "seemingly" backbone of Japan is nothing but the US bases.

@efisher:

The Quing dynasty's borders were constantly in flux and you will find documents showing areas of Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia and even some showing Ryuku and Japanese Islands and waters as part of its domain on and of over the centuries even though they never set foot in any of them, there are even document that claim they controlled Thailand (Siam) and Burma but absolutely no historical data that can corroborate that and that is why they are not relevant

@efisher:

I don't know how many times and how many people have written this but China (both) previously even after the war acknowledged they were Japan's only to change their mind when the word OIL was mentioned and also that historical "documents" mean little or nothing in today's age and world because if they did we would be rewriting every map on the planet for the next century.

And the argument that both Chinas were in to weak of a state to say anything is also not valid seeing the real reason they were to weak was they were both busy suppressing their own local populations and in the particular case PRC killing a great number of them.

And it is for this reason that both Chinas have not filed or even suggested ICJ intervention because they both know under established international rules of law they would lose.

Have you ever heard of either PRC or ROC suggesting ICJ? the answer is NO all they ever say is the only want to "negotiate" directly with Japan and if Japan ever agrees to that then they will use that willingness to negotiate as admission that Japan has doubts which it doesn't so the only course is ICJ that I will again state both Chinas will not do.

I am not Japanese so I shouldn't care but I do care not because I like Japan more than China but because China is distorting the facts and history and will not work with others under international rules even less than Japan (who I have criticized many times in the past).

@limoinjapa

As I am in Hong Kong, I have all the free access to available information. Here in Hong Kong, we also discussed the arguments put forwarded by Japan. We acknowledge that some arguments should be considered by China.

I never mean to confuse the discussion by mentioning the past-wars. I just wish that we should consider the events together with their background. Isolating the individual event can't produce the whole genuine picture of history.

I think both the Chinese and Japanese people should learn more about the information about the "Islands". At least, we should work together to agree on the factual materials/information. As in a trial in court, both sides may agree with the "matter of fact" while still arguing for the "matter of law".

Some Japanese said the "Islands" was never the territory of China. If one can read Chinese and has read the relevant historical documents/data, it is difficult for him to reach such conclusion.

@Sarge Japan does not demand for it because of the same reason that Japanese don't throw stones into school windows, harass ambassadors by calling them several times at 2 AM or send home thousands of exchange students: They have manners while the Chinese have not. Chinese are just too arrogant and belligerent for that.

Someone above said "pride then the fall". Many of the Chinese posters remind me of some of the Japanese during the 80s. And look what happened.... If these Chinese actually believe what they are saying, we better get ready for the China implosion.

Japan shouldn't ask China to pay for the damage. They should demand it.

Japan maintains a different level of civility.

looks like there is some semblence of backbone in that jelly-fish called Japan

Japan shouldn't ask China to pay for the damage. They should demand it.

What I would like to know is why China is willing to sacrifice its image in the world for a few rocks, even if they have a little oil. Even if what the Japanese did was stupid, what China is doing is more stupid. China has suddenly become scary! To everyone. What happened to the great China of the Olympics? It is a 180 degree turn. China's action is so extreme that nobody even remembers what Japan did. Oh yes, now all Japanese goods imported to and exported from China are being inspected in Chinese ports, causing big delays in delivery. Scary. Very scary.

Can't there be made a general rule to limit the times a country can draw it's WWII victim card? China has totally exploited that card by now and it gets really annoying if they start whining once again that they were occupied by Japan some 60 years back.

The Kan government bringing up the confrontation in east sea gas fields and the compensation of damaged JCG vessel was an attempt to stir up anti Chinese sentiment! Is a conspiracy,Japan has gained much nationalisms over this incident,she kicks up the chase and release the crews/captain as long as she likes and bringing the whole matter to seek Obama's support of Japan to boost his own popularity during the showdown in DPJ! What a dangerous man!!

This incident was definately the japanese inflicted by her own,she shouldnt harass the Chinese fishing boat and she keep underestimating the consequences!And japan just know hugging the US Japan security pact but receieving empty words from Obama! This has reflected the DPJ was totally uncapable to handel a crisis!The next move will be China drilling the gas out of east sea seabed! So....is japan seeking compensations from China for being 'deception' for decades??

I wonder if most Chinese really care about the issue.

I talked to my friend in Beijing, and she said Chinese friends told her that it still takes more than 6 hours to get into the Japanese pavilion at the Shanghai Expo. That is down from 8 hours.

Yeah, thank you for that Zhang. I don't doubt China is eager to start grabbing more territory, but I think the administration has a few other things to attend to that will distract it. Escalating labor unrest. Trying to create another cold war in this age won't rally young Chinese workers long enough against the foreign evil daring to capture a fisherman. They now want better livelihoods, more spendable income. That will be their first priority. Will the Chinese leaders assert their ruthless authority a la Tiannanmen Square or a la Mao Tse Tung? Not really understanding the Chinese mindset, I don't know. Will China pay compensation for the damage done to government property? Only if it has pride in being a developed country.

Thank @paulinusa , I didn't have the heart to tell him he seemed to put such effort into his post!

Zhang Fei: The flaw in your logic is China needs the world as much as the world needs China. "Pride comes before a fall."

limboinjapan: "If you can access things without censorship try looking up all the treaties and you will notice that China in all the cases you keep mentioning has agreed and signed that they are all settled."

I don't think you understand the Chinese mindset. Treaties that are signed with China in a position of strength - typically granting China control over conquered territory - are valid. Treaties signed with China in a position of weakness - typically ceding Chinese territory to other countries - are "unequal" treaties and therefore invalid. The equivalent would be a future Japanese administration declaring the cession of Formosa and Korea to the control of the Allied Powers to be invalid because they were "unequal" treaties signed from a position of weakness.

China has been East Asia's imperial power for 2000-odd years. It is the largest land empire in Asia and triple the size of India (an empire that was assembled by the British rather than the Indians). It’s also the third largest land empire in the world, behind just Russia and Canada, which is why China’s population density is roughly the same as the EU’s despite having three times the population.

China's name for itself is essentially "The Center of the World". The responses you are getting come from the mindset of an imperial power finally free to speak its mind. Note that in the late 18th century, it was the Qianlong Emperor who bade Britain's King George - as if writing to a minor vassal - to "Tremblingly obey and show no negligence".

So why are the Chinese doing this now? Simply put, they don’t have anything to lose. Chinese rhetoric about future Japanese territorial ambitions notwithstanding, they know that Japan (or, for that matter, any combination of powers) is not about to invade China. If Japan blinks, the Chinese get free land. If Japan builds up its military, the Chinese will go after easier marks. They’re going to go at American security relationships with other East Asian countries with a crowbar, using a combination of military-, trade- and investment-related carrots and sticks. At worse, they look like bullies. At best, they get involved in some limited military clashes and end up with millions of square miles of real estate in what they consider Chinese waters – the South China Sea. As an aggressive and acquisitive power that is way too large to be invaded and more than willing to bide their time, the Chinese hold all the cards. I expect decades of future tension much like the Cold War, with a potential adversary that has far more economic vigor than the Soviet bloc but without a comprehensive East and South Asian alliance system to ensure the kind of cooperation against a common adversary fostered by NATO.

In the modern era, it’s been hemmed in by Japan and the European powers – Russia to the north and the Western European powers on all sides. Post-WWII, the Soviet Union and the US assumed this function. Russia is now a shambles, and the US is gradually pulling back from its Western Pacific security obligations, starting with Obama’s gutting of the Navy’s fleet size. With an economic renaissance filling the coffers of the national treasury, it appears that China’s two thousand-year-old quest for ever more lebensraum is about to begin anew. Note that China had its own mission civilatrice – barbarian pacification wars that coincidentally always expanded China’s territorial extent – back when the Gauls were running around in animal skins.

That loud noise we all just heard was the hysterical laughter from the Chinese foreign ministry in Beijing

Hysterical is the perfect term applying to more than the Chinese laughter.

efisher:

I think before complaining about how Japanese politician reacted I think you should look at all the posturing and yelling China has been doing and I also find it kind of tiring how you and the rest of the pro-China poster keep bringing up the past wars as some sort of fake trump card.

If you can access things without censorship try looking up all the treaties and you will notice that China in all the cases you keep mentioning has agreed and signed that they are all settled.

Are those documents not available where you are?

@martinli92

I think Japan shouldn't ignore China's repeated demand for releasing the captain (I read many comments in Japan, they said China was overacting and regarded the repeated demand as childish). The Japan foreign minister shouldn't handle a political issue like that. He isn't the coast guard or a policeman. As foreign minister, he is a politician. Every competent politician should handle political issue in a political way. That is an art. Politic isn't operated in the context of regulations as set in our legal examination.

Then, Japan government even extended the detention. It had gone too far to step across the red line. Chinese government was left with no choice.

What's your sense of the impact of this uproar on the DPJ's popularity? If elections were held today, would the DPJ win a majority?

Just exactly what damages did the Chinese boat captain incur? Japan is right in telling China to stuff it. The Chinese govt are attempting to milk the benefits of the Anti-Jpn fever to the max rather than return relations back to normal. The JCG have actual boat damages that need to be repaired and China should pay for it. As usual Japan's position makes logical sense whereas China's is typically assinine.

efisher:"The detention of captain (by Japanese law)is based on the presumption that Japan has undisputed sovereignty which the Chinese don't agree."

I really don't get this, these islands are nothing like the Korean or Russian problem only thing they have in common are that they are all recognized internationally as Japanese the Korean ones were taken by force and everyone including the US say they are Japanese as for the Russian ones even Russia says they are Japanese but unlike China their has never been a formal end of the war or a peace treaty.

China on multiple occasions accepted the present borders and even signed agreements but now wants to go back on those agreements, try looking up these agreement instead of just listening to PRC and ROC propaganda, all issues were settled in 1958 and 1972.

It just seems that like the Korean government never told its people about its agreements with Japan until recently China has never told its people about their signed agreements, and that is why they do not bring the mater to the ICJ.

@kwatt

Nice to discuss with you. The detention of captain (by Japanese law)is based on the presumption that Japan has undisputed sovereignty which the Chinese don't agree. (Please also consider the view of Chinese just like the Japanese want the Russian and Korean to consider their claims on lands)

Therefore, by so doing, Japan is enforcing her claim against Chinese people by resorting to physical force.

I think both sides should have peaceful talks to resolve the issue, not by force or violence.

Please don't believe the so called -"China threat". It is true that there are some disputes among Asian countries. Chinese people love peace. You see, the Chinese government is trying her best to contain the North Korea. Which country can do that job?

@efisher - Your message is understandable. Maybe he is too young to make a big judgement, but he was elected as minister. Japan is going ever like this as democratic country. I don't think that he mishandled the case. He just did what he has to do as minister and j coast guards have to do their job on Japan's water. There were no aggressive offence to China about that. Japan don't send submarines and war ships to China's waters. It seems that China often sends them all over to East China Sea and South China Sea.

@efisher: I think both countries have their own domestic problems and they cannot gives a space to the others!I couldnt understand why japan cannot gives a mere compromise over China that resulted in such a political deadlock! In europe there was similar land disputes too like Germany never claming back those lost land to Poland and east prussia to Russia! Japan always prpagandaing Chinese nuclear threats,that was ridiculous! The US has dozens of nuclear arsenals aiming China and they have been threatening nuclear war at China in korean war,why did japan never could understanding the necessary of China needs nuclear aresnals as self defense!?

Hmm let's see ...

Somebody breaks into your estate and damages your car. You catch him and give him over to the police. The mother of the burglar calls and demands to let him go, so does the police promptly. the criminal comes home and is celebrated as a hero. The mother asks the estate owner to pay for damages and to apologize to the burglar, also sends some other thugs around your estate to intimidate you.

This is what China does! The Chinese gov. acts in many ways like the Yakuza. There's no negotiating with a crime government like the Chinese one. The Japanese government gave the rat milk, next time it comes back and wants cheese!

Too late to have it out now after he was sent back to China. Shallow-witted Maehara as hawkish Foreign Minister dared to capture the Chinese fishing boat in borrowed plumes or perhaps at the instigation of Big America without expecting how Assistant Secretary of State would later comment on it and how furiously China would retaliate. As a result poor Kan administration was blown away. We should note however that China has been all the while aware of how the U.S. and the new government in Japan are aiming to utilize the confrontation between Japan and China and strengthen the U.S.-Japan alliance by emphasizing China threat and the necessity of deterrence by the U.S. Forces and thereby hopefully solve the Futenma relocation issue. China knows what she does and outfoxes Kan and the like. And simpleminded animosity would do more harm than good with clever China.

@kwatt

As a Hong Kong Chinese, I think the Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshito Sengoku is sincere. Maybe, the Japan foreign minister is too young. Personally, I feel he had mis-handled the case.

On the other hand, I don't think China should suspense the culture exchange between Chinese and Japanese people.

Should have demanded that for the release of the captain.Now saying that is just playing "catch up."

@efisher - maybe so. So which one is good manner to the world?

@kwatt Detention of the captain is highly unwise. Every mature politician know such detention in a disputed territory is highly aggressive.

Japan is asking politely. China is demanding aggressively. Which one is good manner to the world?

It's funny to see Japan's demand following China. lol..

Compensation request by both countries were only talked to their own people. Anyone believes in this words must take some basic political lessons first.

Japan asks China to pay for damage to patrol boats

China replies: "Bite me".

Grukun-

fishy, I know what you mean! I'm still waiting to see this mysterious video that I heard about

Right, makes me even wonder if Japan is really telling its citizens the truth... I mean, if it really was China's fault, why don't they show the video? That'd have helped Japan avoid all the mess. It really is a misterious video.. hope it really exists.

Or was it that movie that was playing on TV last week? I think it was called Umizaru?

lol

I don't understand why the government is so reluctant to show the video to the public.

fishy, I know what you mean! I'm still waiting to see this mysterious video that I heard about. Or was it that movie that was playing on TV last week? I think it was called Umizaru?

LAUGH! Why do the Japanese keep on setting themselves up for rejection?

Chinese government is bad. China needs a regime change.

why doesn't the government of Japan show the evidence video? If it is clear that it was China's fault, then there should be no negotiation, I don't understand why the government is so reluctant to show the video to the public.

Funny!!!

This is stupid, can the US please step in, spank both countries backsides and send them to their rooms.

I'm going to try and predict what China will say to this.... hmmmm... toughy.

all this is just to pathetic for words,it's like two kids fighting in 1st grade elemenary school.And these are the people running the countries. UN Security Council seats,Japan wants and China has,frightening or farcical??

tuesday: "Sorry but that just weak. If they think it is the Chinese boat's captain fault; then why did they release him? Why didn't they charge him? pathetic"

Sorry for some reason only part of what I wrote showed up, Here is the full text

First the prosecutor has not decided yet if he will be charge! Basically this can sort of be viewed as a car accident and in some cases the police charge one driver but often they just let both driver go and let their insurance companies fight it out.

So view it like this, the coatsgarde boats belong to the Japanese central government and China seems to be acting as the representative of the boat captain so now they must work things out!

Good move Japan, but why did they release him without laying charges?

tuesday: "Sorry but that just weak. If they think it is the Chinese boat's captain fault; then why did they release him? Why didn't they charge him? pathetic"

and in some cases the police charge one driver but often they just let both driver go and let their insurance companies fight it out.

So view it like this, the coatsgarde boats belong to the Japanese central government and China seems to be acting as the representative of the boat captain so now they must work things out!

Japan has already lost face...give it up or the big boy will smack you.

I believe the Japan was correct in rejecting China's demand to pay compensatory damages to the Chinese. This was an unfortunate incident which began as a small incident and grew dramatically. Incidents such as these need to be kept in proper perspective. China should have accepted the release of the Chinese Boat Captain without pressing the issue further. Both China and Japan need to move forward for the greater good of both countries and to preserve stability in the region.

This is like 2 schoolyard kids pushing and shoving each other and everyone crowding around waiting to see who is gonna throw the first punch.

Sorry but that just weak. If they think it is the Chinese boat's captain fault; then why did they release him? Why didn't they charge him? pathetic

Japan have already made a wise dicision,the history will prove it,but US is the final winner.

Some of you shouldn't take these statements at face value (including China's demands for an apology and compensation). It's all about the court of domestic and world opinion, and right now China has more to lose than Japan if it continues sounding belligerent. Asia is intently watching China, not Japan.

Why don't they just get it over and done with and start the war.

It is unfortunate that DPJ has such unskilled leadership that have no qualms to making false public statement like Sengoku and Maehara. These two individuals must be held accountable with the PM Kan for making the worst of a bad situation. They made false statements and show how silly Japan may act when negotiation or the lack of it became difficult.

I would suggest the LDP take this lack of leadership and diplomatic skill by the incumbent ruling party and grill these two individuals. Mr. Kan seems to get very bad advise from the chief cabinet secretary and the foreign minister.

PM Kan: While you are at it, please do us all a favor and inform China that Japan's policy for Chinese tourists will revert back to original form where Chinese can only visit as part of official tour groups and not individually.

Like China will pay. I don`t think China will pay for anything. This quarrel will continue because both sides are too foolish to give in to each other.

“At this point, the ball is now in China’s court.”

Japan doesn't expect China to pay for the damages. A stalemate is all they want.

Goood move Japan.

Petty claim, worth?

That loud noise we all just heard was the hysterical laughter from the Chinese foreign ministry in Beijing when Japan's demand came across their desk.

A good countermove. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

There is no negotiating with China. It's their way or the highway.