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Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

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McGraw-Hill's reference to either 'sex slaves' or 'comfort women' is not incorrect, just politically incorrect to Abe and his revisionists. Why can't they let sleeping dogs lie? Looking to the future is a lot more important than trying to 'correct' the past. You can't change the past, only influence the future, and influencing the future does not depend on falsely changing the past. As The Eagles song iterated, 'Get over it!' As a lover of Japan, I can't fathom the fixation on this dead issue.

41 ( +49 / -10 )

Revisionist...fail

24 ( +31 / -8 )

"You cannot rewrite history! Not one line!" - William Hartnell (The First Doctor Who) from the story "The Aztecs".

21 ( +31 / -11 )

Finally, a counter-balance to S Koreas propaganda to build statues all over the world. Keep it up.

-48 ( +16 / -62 )

I think in the US they call a spade a spade.

0 chance of these right wing revisionists successfully having McGraw Hill change the correct terminology.

American publishers aren't the Asahi Shinbun or the other sheep papers here.

33 ( +44 / -13 )

Wow! Sleazy move Japan! No, we will NOT revise our history books just to save your "face"!

34 ( +44 / -12 )

@speed

Having worked for McGraw-Hill and Japanese publishers of textbooks, I'm pretty sure they will all do what they see as best for their bottom line.

There seems to be a push to view these women as either sex slaves or whores. Black and white. Pure and evil. I'm sure some were caught somewhere in between, in the place most of us live. A need to feed the family, a wish to escape the family, or just taking every day as it comes? Life is difficult sometimes. I'm told life during wartime is far worse. I believe that. Let's just tell the story and skip the judgement.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

I don't think so". History is history and Japan would do well to remember theirs. Every other country is advised to do the same.

13 ( +16 / -5 )

Everything has been said already so far, just one question:

Who are "they" to demand a foreign country's publisher to re-write the facts?

16 ( +24 / -10 )

Not a surprise. Will they also ask them not to write about the 1923 Great Kanto Earhquake massacre of mostly Koreans, but also Chinese, and some Okinawans and even Japanese who had a different accent when they answered the sibloleth juu go cento and go juu sen.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

In other news, Republican asks U.S. publisher to change ' slave' reference in textbooks to "comfort labor."

31 ( +30 / -3 )

The right wingers in J govt.c an ask all they like...rightfully the U.S and others just tell them to p&@$ss off.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Pure and evil. I'm sure some were caught somewhere in between, in the place most of us live.

Reality is there were a very tiny percentage that were hookers, and they are the one's being paraded around by Abe and the revisionists as being the majority. Smoke and mirrors, a tiny kernel of truth being used as the basis to create a new fact.

11 ( +14 / -4 )

I apologize. In my rant above, I skipped the notion that women were physically kidnapped and forced to have sex. I believe that happened too.

6 ( +9 / -6 )

When a woman accuses a man of rape, the man is already considered guilty until proven innocent.There women who finally broke the silence after overcoming the shame and stigma. Why refuse to accept their testimony. The Japanese goverment kept hiding this for years, just like they failed to investigate the abductions by No rth Korea.

7 ( +11 / -5 )

The values, traditions and attitudes that a nation or a government inherits from its ancestors do not die that soon or that easily.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I think it's great they're doing this, because there are lots of references, testimonies, pictures, reports, etc. other than the one mentioned, and overseas publishers, if they aren't too wimpy, can provide that info for the world to see. The right wing is stirring up a pot, and they won't like the result, but it's good this is happening, since the right wing is assuming everything about comfort women is based on one report.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

A spade is a spade! A sex slave is a sex slave. The harder Japn tries to cover up and downplay the events of their imperial rule of Asia the more hate and distrust they breed

15 ( +19 / -6 )

Why is Japan trying so hard to dispute comfort women, Nanjing masacar & other atricities recently?

The evidence is too overwhelming. How ridiculous to approach a publisher claiming there are grave errors which contradict Japan's view.

You certainly wont see US officials approaching the Ministry of Education requesting to delete the bombings of Hiroshima & Nagasaki out of history books. Why? Because it actually happened.

20 ( +25 / -8 )

Perhaps Japan would compromise and say ok if they used the term, "Ladies of the Night"

-21 ( +5 / -24 )

“The Japanese government, through an overseas diplomatic office, in mid-December asked McGraw-Hill executives to make a correction in the content of their textbook titled ‘Traditions & Encounters: A Global Perspective on the Past’,” a foreign ministry statement published by the Wall Street Journal said.

OK for all you Japanophiles, please tell me how this is significantly different than NK demanding Sony not show "The Interview". What right does Japan have to tell a U.S. publisher what is historically correct? Will it next be to call Pearl Harbor something other than a sneak attack? Japan, and specifically Abe's government, needs to get past WWII and not create enemies among its closest allies.

8 ( +15 / -10 )

I think we need to drop this "comfort women" euphemism altogether and simply use "sex slaves."

21 ( +22 / -5 )

That is correct. They were forced and abused sex slaves.

9 ( +13 / -7 )

This just makes Japanese look bad in the eyes of others; be humble in admitting your own history Japan and be rewarded with respect.

10 ( +16 / -8 )

Ahahaha! Good try, right-wings.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The right wingers in J govt can ask all they like, rightfully the U.S. and others tell them where to go.

3 ( +7 / -5 )

I love Japan, but history is history, US should ask Japan to put them in the local history in Japan.

19 ( +23 / -7 )

Other than blaming Japan, what has South Korean goverment done for these comfort women after WWII? In the early 1970's, there was lawsuit that was filed against their own government by over 120 surviving comfort women to reclaim human dignity and proper compensation. Their claim was that South Korean government was desperate to keep U.S. troops in the 1960's after the devastating but inconclusive war with North Korea and wanted the women to serve as patriots and civilian diplomats. Why would U.S. military in South Korea say it was aware of reports of lawsuit?

-12 ( +7 / -18 )

Where is Mas Oyama when you need him?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think that the publisher will probably do it. Look at how they have gone from talking about Columbus as an explorer when I was growning up, to today's view that he was an exploiter and started the genocide of the local indians (Native Americans).

What happened in the past happend, both good and bad. As long as the Japanese government is not still hiring "comfort women" for their SDF members who pull into various ports (obviously these protestors have never been to the freeport in Subic Bay lately), then it should be told as it happened.

It happened during the war, and after the war (read a story on how the J-gov at the time thought it was the duty of the "Pan'Pan" girls to work the occupying GI's in order to get the much needed foreign money into circulation), just as the push for the new formed South Korean government did with the women who worked the "Camp Towns" outside of the bases there.

Now to try to act as if it didn't happen is just wrong, and denying their own past.

-7 ( +5 / -11 )

Redolent of efforts by the government of Turkey to have references to the Armenian Genocide removed from US school history textbooks. Given the strength and size of the ethnic Armenian community in the USA, forget about that. Ditto for this case. Korean-Americans will fight tooth and nail against any proposed changes in the McGraw-Hill textbooks.

-1 ( +4 / -6 )

Japan stop denying this happened, you can't change history.

5 ( +13 / -10 )

A PERFECT example of how badly Japan distorts history and people here allow it, and how the sort of crap they pull on the public here at home would NEVER fly anywhere else in the world. Sorry, Japan, but sex slaves they were, and sex slaves they will continue to be called despite hurting the egos of those on the extreme right wing. In fact, now that this push to white-wash history has hit overseas, you can bet the issue will get even MORE attention than the wingers here intended! Hahaha... I'm going to be posting this to all my friends overseas and ask that they send letters of support to the publishing companies, and spread the issue of what Japan is trying to do here.

12 ( +24 / -15 )

Wow, that takes some nerve. How do you re-write history?

1 ( +7 / -8 )

The subject of “comfort women” will never end; even Japan itself will never let it rest. The deceitful tactic is being used by Japanese government to try to create doubts in the people’s minds by poking holes on the subject, such as the women were prostitutes or inconsistent testimonies or lies by Japanese soldiers, so that some people can form their own distorted opinions away from the truth. The longer it is, the more the truth becomes blurry among younger generation Japanese who will then reject the facts and ignore the past. Later, pride can be intensified so that nationalism can reach its full potential. Negative propaganda is in the making.

2 ( +7 / -7 )

Mainstream historians agree that around 200,000 women, mainly from Korea, but also from China, Taiwan and the Philippines, were FORCED to PROVIDE SEX to JAPANESE SOLDIERS in a formalised system of SLAVERY.

There's nothing "comfortable" about that, It's sex slavery! No matter how much Abe continues to deny, he doesn't have the power to change the facts presented by mainstream Historians (outside of Japan).

7 ( +13 / -9 )

McGraw-Hill history books need to be used in Japanese classrooms.

9 ( +14 / -8 )

While I'm not happy that China and Korea constantly bring the issue up Japan, and Abe and his revisionist cronies, seem to be hell-bent on whitewashing the past. Unlike Germany, Japan's leadership won't admit to the atrocities that were committed. So even when they apologize and pay compensation it's overwhelmed by the rhetoric that nothing happened. That means it will go on and on and on.....

1 ( +5 / -6 )

They did this “upon finding grave errors and descriptions that conflict with our party and our ultranationalist, crypto-fascist supporters' stance on the issue of ‘comfort women.’”

Fixed that.

0 ( +6 / -7 )

Politics in Japan right now is leaving 75% in the past and 30% in the present and 5% in the future.

2 ( +6 / -5 )

Michael CraigJan. 16, 2015 - 07:15AM JST

"You cannot rewrite history! Not one line!" - William Hartnell (The First Doctor Who) from the story "The Aztecs".

Those words should be directed to McGraw Hill.

FarmboyJan. 16, 2015 - 08:23AM JST

I think it's great they're doing this, because there are lots of references, testimonies, pictures, reports, etc. other than the one mentioned, and overseas publishers, if they aren't too wimpy, can provide that info for the world to see.

Here you go. http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/document.html

But most people in the world are too busy to read the primary sourse material, while they have enough time to voice for what they feel might be right or what the authority tell them to believe.

Farmboy, I am following this issue for a long time, and yet to find any credible evidence that ianfu were "sex slaves" rather than prostitutes, unless the definition of "sex slave" includes all prostitutes. Would you show me the evidence that they were, if you know one.

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf page 187

Allied Translator and Interpreter Section, Suppreme Commander for the Allied Powers

Research Report "Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" 15 November 1945

9 Brothels

10 Hostesses may, as a general rule, be re-hired at the expiration of their term of contract. Those wishing to continue their employment will so notify the Officer in Charge of MANILA Sector Line of Communications Duties for his approval. When the medical authorities consider it suitable to discontinue the services of reasons of health, they will so inform the Officer in Charge of MANILA Sector Line of Communication Duties. The latter will facilitate the return home of such persons.

Japan need better PR officers to make people realize the reality.

-18 ( +9 / -24 )

No wonder Korea and China keep asking Japan for an apology, it's like the US asking Japan to "correct" their text books to say they never dropped nuclear bombs on Japanese soil.

2 ( +9 / -9 )

Japan stop denying this happened, you can't change history.

Who is changing history? It is anti-Japan like you that start using the term " sex slave" .

-32 ( +7 / -35 )

There's no doubt in my mind that comfort women existed. Some were forced. There would have been the usual camp followers. Denying either is silly.

History should be reported as accurately as possible. If there is doubt, it should be mentioned. Obvious exaggeration, positive or negative, should be avoided.

10 ( +12 / -3 )

Nigelboy, please tell us that the US publisher has it all wrong about the sex slaves, uh, I mean, comfort women. Everyone's just out to get Abe and his right-winger pals, right? Ch3cho has got the ball rolling for ya!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

There is a lot of interesting reading on this issue, and it doesn't take much of a search to find it, even though a good deal of Japanese source material was reportedly burned. The right wing is going to be busy contacting publishers, I think.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/31/world/asia/31yoshimi.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1242&context=bjil

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Unless Japan can financial reason for why MG should change anything, I don't see anything changing. MG is a business about money, Japan would have to give some type of exclusive publishing deal.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Who are "they" to demand a foreign country's publisher to re-write the facts?

becuase it is not the facts.

-32 ( +6 / -34 )

It is extremely unfortunate that PM Abe, and the far-right wing fringe of his party, continue their efforts to discredit some of Japan’s more brutal atrocities in the early 20th century. As some posters have noted, Abe and his cohorts have tried to make this a primarily SKorea-China- Japan issue, discounting the myriad of first-hand accounts by SE Asian, Dutch, Australian, Canadian and even American women of their forced, involuntary servitude.

My sense is that in Abe’s office, is a “playbook”, outlining a long term strategy to revise essentially all of Japan’s WW II history – start with the comfort women and Rape of Nanking, once those are acknowledged and re-written, we’ll move on to the Bataan Death March and Unit 731. Ultimately we’ll get to Toshio Tamagamai’s view that the US “attacked” Japan economically, fully justifying the military attack on Pearl Harbor.

What he fails to understand is that while this may make for “happy feelings” and less “collective national shame” at home, it will harm his short and long term relations with all of his neighbors, and potentially his most important benefactor, the US.

This NY Times article I think summarizes the issue well. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/opinion/comfort-women-and-japans-war-on-truth.html?_r=0

8 ( +8 / -3 )

this sums it up well for me

"While the approach is popular among core right-wing supporters in Japan, it does not have broad appeal among a Japanese public that largely feels disconnected from events more than seven decades ago."

The government should stop wasting any more time, money or diplomatic currency on this issue and focus on other matters.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It is anti-Japan like you that start using the term " sex slave" .

Actually, it is "anti-Japan" of you to continue to deny history. With every denial, refusal to accept the reality of the terrible acts done by the IJA, you further harm Japan as you make your country look more and more like a childish joke.

9 ( +10 / -3 )

Nigelboy, please tell us that the US publisher has it all wrong about the sex slaves, uh, I mean, comfort women. Everyone's just out to get Abe and his right-winger pals, right? Ch3cho has got the ball rolling for ya!

They do. Is it too much reading for you there (CH3CHO links with primary sources)? The ATIS section is in English so it shouldn't be too hard.

It's pretty lame that the U.S. 'historians' who wrote this passage didn't read the U.S. Interrogation Report which states

"A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers"?

-17 ( +7 / -22 )

Abe so delusional and misinformed to think that he can cleanup Japan's image abroad by writing NHK International News scripts and taking trips abroad and trying to buy the respect and friendship of other nations. But this move is goes far beyond the scope of decency. It's one thing to try to pull the sleets of your own citizenry by trying to rewrite your own history but to try and intervene in the education of children in other countries who's citizens were victimized is nothing but insane and utter stupidity.

Although I hate to read stories regarding the Team Abe administration's / Juminto's primary motivation and ambition of a "Beautiful Japan", what a dichotomy to what they are actually doing to this great country, I hope he steams full-speed ahead.

Maybe, just maybe, some sensible members of the parliament, maybe the business circles or some influential individuals in the media see the inevitable train-wreck that Abe is leading this nation into and decide it's time for Abe to have another stomach-ache and take the reins away from this madman! There were voices that sounded out warning the Japan leadership to end the disastrous course they were on before the end of WWII.

Oh but I forgot, they were silenced one way or another too!

3 ( +5 / -3 )

I think most textbooks are biased or just plain wrong. The closest you can ever get to understanding the past is to read over original first source documents. I had an excellent history teacher once who relied on first source documents that we would read over and interpret together.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

it would be smarter for Abe and the Ministry of Education to find ways to improve the level of english, or to provide more scholarships or restructure their own education system to make it smarter and more competitive, than to deal with petty things that will only make japan look funny in the eyes of the world.

this issue is not japan's issue alone, it is everyones' issue, and that especially include asia and the pacific, or even the US, why not listen to them first, or at least include their views?

3 ( +3 / -1 )

tinawatanabe: "Who is changing history? It is anti-Japan like you that start using the term " sex slave" ."

Typical. If you can't accept the truth you call it 'anti-Japan'. Sorry, tina, but it's YOU who do not know the facts, and that is YOUR problem. You really have to wonder when EVERY nation in the world agrees Japan committed certain atrocities, including sexual slavery, and only a handful of wingers and history revisionists deny it. YOU are the reason why Japan should never, ever, be forgiven for its past actions, and why it needs to be brought up constantly. I hope more sex slave statutes are put up around the world in front of Japanese embassies.

7 ( +14 / -10 )

CH3CHO: Says, "and yet to find any credible evidence that ianfu were "sex slaves" rather than prostitutes, unless the definition of "sex slave" includes all prostitutes.

This is directly from your own link. Early in May of 1942 JAPANESE AGENTS arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these FALSE REPRESENTATIONS many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen. It also goes on to say that most girls had to pay 60% of their wages to their house masters, plus pay higher prices for food & board.

So JAPANESE AGENTS named their jobs as "comfort service" and told them NOTHING of their TRUE intensions. They were deceived about the type of work they would have to perform and once they signed up, they had no choice. Do you still call that prostitution?

CH3CHO Says, "Japan need better PR officers to MAKE people realize the reality??

Better PR officers like the German Gestapo?

6 ( +8 / -4 )

Japan stop denying the truth, you can't change history.

4 ( +9 / -8 )

It is true that anti-Japan started using the term "sex slave" lately. Japan has been using "comfort women".

-22 ( +6 / -25 )

tinawatanabe Jan. 16, 2015 - 11:24AM JST

It is true that anti-Japan started using the term "sex slave" lately. Japan has been using "comfort women".

I think in-fact it stated during the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (Tokyo War Crimes Trial), but it could have been earlier.

Also, let me get this straight;

If a man is convicted of rape, is the woman a whore or..... she was providing comfort to the rapist? Which one is it, or both tinawatanabe?

7 ( +11 / -5 )

Wow FRIGGING wow!

Diplomats petitioned McGraw-Hill to change passages of a book used in American schools that refer to “comfort women”, a euphemism for those forced to work in military brothels.

This is the GOVT's doing, so that means the govt does NOT believe the Kono Statement etc etc, this isn't just some right wingers, its GOVT right wingers doing this!!!

Like I have been saying 2015 is going to really BAD for Japan. And it appears the fools that be couldn't even wait for 2015 so they started in Dec 2014!!

Japan this is a HUGE MISTAKE, your digging your own grave, mortgaging your future.

I sense a really bad year shaping up for 2015, Japan as a country has no shame!

Now there is clearly NO WAY anyone can argue that Japan or its politicians are sincere in any way shape or form when it comes to WWII etc

The stupidity shown is off the charts, so utterly clueless!!!

4 ( +7 / -5 )

There is ample testimony that the Japanese military directly set up military brothels, or "comfort stations." For instance, former PM Nakasone (PM from 1982 to 1987) wrote about his involvement in setting up a military brothel in his 1978 memoir, “Commander of 3,000 Men at Age 23” (23歳で3000人の男たちの司令官). He seems like a very credible source.

There is also ample evidence that many (not all) comfort women were forced to act as prostitutes. The Dutch government concluded a report in 1993 which found that of the 300 Dutch women who worked as comfort women at least 65 were "most certainly forced into prostitution."

Clearly, not all of the comfort women were sex slaves, but many were. Also, not all of the comfort women were recruited by the Japanese military, but many were. I think it is important that textbook authors and journalists make those distinctions clear for the sake of accuracy and to avoid fueling arguments of Japan's denial camp.

9 ( +10 / -2 )

Stuart haywardJan. 16, 2015 - 11:08AM JST

Early in May of 1942 JAPANESE AGENTS arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia.

It does not say anything about the nationality or ethnicity of the Japanese agents. The girls were lowly educated and could not speak Japanese. What language do you think the "Japanese agents" used to recruit the girls? Do not you think it makes much more sense to recruit Korean by ethnic Koreans? There are many testimonies by Korean former ianfu that the agents were Koreans. http://koreaverband.ahkorea.com/_file/trostfrauen/Testimonies_KoreanComfortWomen_english.pdf

On the basis of these FALSE REPRESENTATIONS many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

Even today, many prostitutes are deceived into the business. But that does not make them sex slaves, does it?. Can you find any proof that they were sex slaves rather than prostitutes?

-12 ( +8 / -18 )

"Even today, many prostitutes are deceived into the business. But that does not make them sex slaves, does it?. Can you find any proof that they were sex slaves rather than prostitutes"

Yes, lots of unscrupulous Japanese pimps lure girls into the sex industry, withhold their passports etc...

7 ( +12 / -5 )

tinawatanabeJAN. 16, 2015 - 10:20AM JST Japan stop denying this happened, you can't change history. Who is changing history? It is anti-Japan like you that start using the term " sex slave" .

This is the bizarre mind-set that comes out of Japan; hoe do you manage to take a term used to explain something that happened in history 'anti-Japan'!? And why do we almost never hear a single expression of compassion for the women who were in these camps from Japanese - do they only express compassion to their own people?

8 ( +11 / -5 )

Even today, many prostitutes are deceived into the business. But that does not make them sex slaves, does it?

Once decieved into the business, do you suppose they can just get out of it again of their own choice? Sounds a bit like sex slavery to me.

7 ( +10 / -4 )

Do you still call that prostitution?

Not to be rude or anything but the said report you quoted does state "A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower"..." in its preface.

Common sense and logic always tell me that historians should always carry more weight on these type of reports which is a primary "at that moment, on the spot" detailed report than that of memoirs, unverified testimonies decades after , or the ever evolving nature of political correctness.

-15 ( +5 / -18 )

i think you will continue hearing these types of stories in the future, at least for the next four years. certain elements of abe's gov't will continue pushing for revisions to japan's wartime (mis)deeds, and they are allocating billions of yen to do this:

Japan added ¥50 billion ($427 million) to its budget this year to promote global understanding of the country, including its positions on wartime history and territorial disputes. Of the total, ¥4.3 billion is for communicating its message, including strengthening its ability to analyze and respond to global opinion. An additional ¥7.7 billion will go toward nurturing Japan-friendly academics by supporting Japan studies programs at universities and think tanks.

what a waste of money.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

CH3CHO Jan. 16, 2015 - 11:49AM JST

Even today, many prostitutes are deceived into the business. But that does not make them sex slaves, does it?

Ahh....., YES it does!

Can you find any proof that they were sex slaves rather than prostitutes?

Ahh...., YES. Plenty of testimony from living witnesses scattered around the globe, those that victimized and those that were victims.

Maybe you would like some World War II rape kits as proof would you? Maybe some vintage video footage rather, produced by Japanese soldiers? Well, it just ain't there!

I guess we just have to rely, IN PART, on what every court around the world recognizes as evidence, personal testimony and confessions! If a family member of yours was raped, you would accept personal testimony and confession as evidence wouldn't you? If the man accused denied raping your family member, you would surely accept your loved one's testimony as evidence, wouldn't you.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Japan has been using "comfort women".

Yes, as a pathetic attempt to hide and alleviate the guilt from heinous crimes.

Calling a dog a cat does not make it so. Calling an apple a lemon does not make it so. Calling a sex slave a "comfort woman" does not make it so, nor does it alleviate the heinousness of the crime.

8 ( +10 / -3 )

I love Japan and I am not anti-Japan. But I recognize the facts of history and I think Japan should too. I am from the Philippines and met some women who used to be sex slaves during the WW2, most of them don't speak english , don't know how to use the internet but their stories match with the other sex slaves from Korea and China. I don't think the whole Japan knows these facts, it was all hidden from them by these old right wingers! I majority of people here are willing to know,but they don't know how and where to start....

14 ( +15 / -4 )

"anti-Japan" Apparently an adjective, used by Japanese people, to describe ideas they personally disagree with, despite all objective evidence and scholarly research to the contrary.

11 ( +13 / -4 )

@RofrmedBasher

There's no doubt in my mind that comfort women existed. Some were forced. There would have been the usual camp followers. Denying either is silly. History should be reported as accurately as possible. If there is doubt, it should be mentioned. Obvious exaggeration, positive or negative, should be avoided.

Mate you should be a politician. You'd fit in perfectly with that kind of fence-sitting diatribe. Even logic would dictate that there's no way in the world there were "camp followers" or "some" were forced. ALL of them were forced. Do you have any idea what the IA were capable of in WW2? They experimented on Chinese civilians in their labs. They canabalised Australian troops. ALL of this has been documented.

7 ( +7 / -2 )

I guess we just have to rely, IN PART, on what every court around the world recognizes as evidence, personal testimony and confessions! If a family member of yours was raped, you would accept personal testimony and confession as evidence wouldn't you? If the man accused denied raping your family member, you would surely accept your loved one's testimony as evidence, wouldn't you.

Not to be rude again but I don't think any court will base the credibility of the victim's testimony on whether or not the family members believe them or not.

-14 ( +4 / -17 )

.

Even logic would dictate that there's no way in the world there were "camp followers" or "some" were forced. ALL of them were forced.

Define forced? Physically? By economics? What?

Read my previous post. There were a very tiny number of women that did it purely by choice, they made more money for their families and themselves being a prostitute.

One HAS to look at the laws of Japan at the time. Prostitution was legal, and a controlled industry in Japan, it became illegal after the war. So there were in fact women working as hookers.

BUT, as I wrote previously, their numbers are miniscule in the total, but are used to justify all.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Haha, this ought tobe in the 'Kuchikomi' section. It's almost unreal.

Japan (through these 'diplomats') comes across as absolutely clueless and tinybrained for doing this. It's as if its leaders doesn't understand that in other countries, political pressure doesn't work as well as in the quasi-democracy that Japan is. The first thing that comes to mind reading this is the oyaji 'diplomat' (from last year?) screaming: "Why are you raughing?! Shaddap! Shaddap!" at people disagreeing with him.

Aah, if only the rest of the world would be nore like at home, where people cower so easily...

Pathetic move, Japan.

7 ( +11 / -5 )

In other news, Republican asks U.S. publisher to change ' slave' reference in textbooks to "comfort labor."

Er...Makes no sense. Republicans literally died to end slavery in the US, against Democrat opposition.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Love to see how my taxes are being spent....

How about we stop using the term "Atomic Bomb" for the "incidents" that happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Maybe we should call them "comfort bombs", after all the bombs provided much comfort for the American GIs that were set to invade Japan.

Now, of course I am being sarcastic... but the Japanese use of euphemism must really infuriate its former foes...Calling the horrors of Nanking an " incident" and the abuse of woman as "comfort", does not help Japan with the relations of its neighbors.

6 ( +8 / -4 )

"A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future." Robert A.Heinlein

8 ( +11 / -5 )

Is this publisher going to adopt the phrase "sex slave" for anything else, or will this change only reflect on Japanese wartime issues?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The issue of "comfort girls" is more than an age-old resentment that Koreans stubbornly hang on to. It is a result of the Japanese's attitude of being reluctant to be held accountable for the damage they have caused to Koreans.

-1 ( +3 / -5 )

tinawatanabe: "It is true that anti-Japan started using the term "sex slave" lately. Japan has been using "comfort women"."

All you're saying, and you're completely wrong about the former by the way, is that Japan is using euphemism for heinous acts. Sorry, tina, but the TRUE "anti-Japanese" are people like yourself -- people who WANT Japan to continue to suffer; people who lie about or fail to admit the truth because you are ashamed, so you deny it and damage relations with your nation -- and that is YOUR FAULT, not the fault of others. YOU are the true 'anti-Japan' because you are not acting for the benefit of your nation but are acting to its detriment. The people who point that out are not 'anti-Japan' at all, but are concerned about Japan's actions and its path and wish it would make PROPER amends (sincerely) and everyone could get along. You are anti-Japan, tina. Face it.

And back to the book in question, anyone suggesting McGraw Hill needs to change its books needs to hang their heads in shame. I posted this article on my Facebook and you should see the outrage by friends around the world. They cannot believe Japan would sink so utterly low in this day and age. And that's not anti-Japan -- it's justified anger towards a certain mindset. Those who want people to 'forget' the past are disgusting. Those who want to truly atone (or the government to do so) have the right to talk about moving on.

9 ( +16 / -10 )

CrazyJoe

You need to read up a bit more to this issue since it only surface AFTER the Asahi shimbun article in the 90's that had been recently retracted. Before that most people were not aware of it.

-9 ( +5 / -13 )

@samuraiblue

Utter crap ! How did I hear about these stories growing up in the 70s ?

7 ( +10 / -4 )

Japan is becoming a shameless country every week recently.

6 ( +10 / -5 )

Some Korean professors and non-Japanese scholars do point out that victims' testimonies have been too inconsistant to be accountable.

http://scholarsinenglish.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-comfort-women-by-chunghee-sarah-soh.html

I remember even Yoshimi Yoshiaki admittedly mentioned that on TV. But as some posters said above, there are some hard evidence other than hearsays and testimonies. Can someone share links? I am still learning on this matter.

I have read Yuki Tanaka, Yoshimi Yoshiaki, and Yoshida Seiji (complete waste of my time on this one—a disgusting violent SM porn fiction—what a creepy phycopath this old man was!) and now I am reading Chunghee Sarah Soh and Park Yuna.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

David VarnesJan. 16, 2015 - 12:19PM JST

Calling a sex slave a "comfort woman" does not make it so, nor does it alleviate the heinousness of the crime.

At the same time, calling ianfu aka comfort women "sex slaves" is re-writing history.

UNITED STATES OFFICE OF WAR INFORMATION, Psychological Warfare Team, October 1, 1944

A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers.

-15 ( +5 / -18 )

The other terms Allied used in their reports (which CH3CHO linked) includes prostitute, hostesses, geisha to describe comfort women. Brothels, House of relaxation, special clubs to describe comfort houses.

PC has evolved quite a bit in the past 70 years but I'm quite positive that the Allied officers who captured these Japanese units could distinguish between Slavery and what is not.

-10 ( +6 / -15 )

Maybe this would be interesting (?) reading, too:

http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1242&context=bjil

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

nigelboy Jan. 16, 2015 - 12:30PM JST

Mr. Perfect Jan. 16, 2015 - 12:18PM JST

I guess we just have to rely, IN PART, on what every court around the world recognizes as evidence, personal testimony and confessions! If a family member of yours was raped, you would accept personal testimony and confession as evidence wouldn't you? If the man accused denied raping your family member, you would surely accept your loved one's testimony as evidence, wouldn't you.

nigelboy Jan. 16, 2015 - 12:30PM JST

Not to be rude again but I don't think any court will base the credibility of the victim's testimony on whether or not the family members believe them or not.

Not to be rude BUT, you COMPLETELY missed the point. It's called a hypothetical situation where I was questioning the individual I was responding to on this story and whether that individual would accept personal testimony and confessions, NOT whether any court around the world would do so!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Not to be rude BUT, you COMPLETELY missed the point. It's called a hypothetical situation where I was questioning the individual I was responding to on this story and whether that individual would accept personal testimony and confessions, NOT whether any court around the world would do so!

Of course you are free to accept them. But without cross examination by the accused and collaborating testimonies who attest to the incident, it simply stands as an accusation more or less.

With NYtoday's link above, it basically confirms my suspicions.

-12 ( +5 / -16 )

I hope more sex slave statutes are put up around the world in front of Japanese embassies.

What a great idea

3 ( +6 / -4 )

@Alistair-Carnell

Utter crap ! How did I hear about these stories growing up in the 70s ?

Is it possible that you misunderstood or got confused with either Korean Comfort Women for UN soldiers or Japanese prostitution facility for GHQs? Because the Korean Comfort Women of WW2 didn't get publicized until 1973, way after the Japan-Korea Peace Treaty.

There was no discussion of the comfort women issue when the last stations were closed after the Korean War. It did not enter into discussions when diplomatic relations between Japan and South Korea were restored in 1965.

In 1973 a man named Kakou Senda wrote a book about the comfort women system that focused on Japanese participants. His book has been widely criticized as distorting the facts by both Japanese and South Korean historians.[70] This was the first postwar mention of the comfort women system and became an important source for 1990s activism on the issue.[71]

In 1974 a South Korea film studio made an adult film called Chonggun Wianbu, "Women's Volunteer Corps", featuring comfort women and Japanese soldiers.

The first book written by a Korean on the subject of comfort women appeared in 1981. However, it was a plagiarism of a 1976 Japanese book by the zainichi author Kim Il-Myeon.[72][73]

In 1989, the testimony of Seiji Yoshida was translated into Korean. His book was debunked as fraudulent by some Japanese and Korean journalists, and Yoshida himself, in May 1996, admitted that his memoir was fictional, stating that "There is no profit in writing the truth in books. Hiding the facts and mixing them with your own assertions is something that newspapers do all the time too," in an interview by Shūkan Shinchō.[74][75][76] In August 2014 the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbunalso retracted articles that the paper had published based on or including information from Yoshida, in large part because of pressure from conservative activists and organizations.

I mean, depending where you were and how familiar with the issue back in 70s, it is not impossible but Koreans did refer those prostitutes for the UN as Comfort Women, so...

Until the early 1990s, the term Wianbu (위안부, 慰安婦, Comfort Women) was often used by South Korean media and officials to refer to prostitutes for the U.S. military http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_in_South_Korea_for_the_U.S._military

Or it could be Japanese prostitutes for the GHQ (RAA) but they were commonly called "pan-pan" by Westerners and Japanese, so less likely.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation_and_Amusement_Association

-11 ( +6 / -16 )

NYtoday, you can use fancy wording and links to right wing approved scholars all you like, but growing up, we all knew what the IJA were capable of.

Stop whitewashing, and go back to 2ch.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Come on, klausdorth, peer-reviewed academic publications from prestigious international universities!? Surely you jest. In the face of the fine apologists for Imperial Japan on these boards, most notably some western descendants of its many victims, you simply can't win trotting out shoddy sources like that.

4 ( +5 / -2 )

CH3CHO: My reply was a direct copy & paste from the link you gave me.

http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

Now your showing a DIFFERENT link.

CH3CHO Says, "it does not say anything about the nationality or ethnicity of the Japanese agents"

Lol, the official statement clearly says JAPANESE AGENTS, it does NOT say Korean or any other nationality. Even in the unlikelihood that those Japanese agents were born somewhere else, they were still Japanese agents, hired by the Japanese army.

CHO3CHO Says, "even today, many prostitutes are deceived into the business. But that does not make them sex slaves, does it?"

The definition of sex slave: A person who is forced into prostitution and held against their will.

Those girls were deceived to believe they were going to do hospital jobs, NOT prostitution! Show me a link that says they were free to leave at anytime. As the article says, those who were paid, had to give 60% of their earnings to their MASTERS and paid more for food & board than the normal rate. Though I'm sure you can't find any links, showing that these girls were Free to leave anytime, even if they could escape, they didn't have the money nor means to do so.

You still didn't clarify your last statement. CH3CHO Says, Japan needs better PR officers to MAKE PEOPLE REALIZE the REALITY???

Make people? Realize the reality? That sounds very similar to German Gestapo tactics.

8 ( +10 / -4 )

FarmboyJan. 16, 2015 - 10:25AM JST

klausdorthJan. 16, 2015 - 01:39PM JST

http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1242&context=bjil

I do not think the report you linked has professional quality.

sexual autonomy is a power attaching to the right of ownership of a person, and controlling another person's sexuality is, therefore, a form of slavery.

By this definition, any form of prostitution is "a form of slavery." Any from of rape is "a form of slavery." I think the definition is stretched too much.

Several treaties in effect at the start of World War II establish that slavery was an international crime, and that forced sex was a form of slavery. As the various treaties make clear, the comfort stations were a system of sexual slavery that violated international law.

She should, as a professional writer, have made clear what international law she was refering to. To the contrary to her assertion, the international convention at the time states otherwise. http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/whiteslavetraffic1910.html

INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF THE WHITE SLAVE TRAFFIC

FINAL PROTOCOL

D. The case of detention, against her will, of a woman or girl in a brothel could not, in spite of its gravity, be dealt with in the present Convention, seeing that it is governed exclusively by internal legislation.

The convention, written by Europeans, clearly states it is not a in violation of international law.

There are many more critical faults in her essay. But I value my time.

-12 ( +7 / -17 )

Lol, the official statement clearly says JAPANESE AGENTS, it does NOT say Korean or any other nationality. Even in the unlikelihood that those Japanese agents were born somewhere else, they were still Japanese agents, hired by the Japanese army.

It might be interesting to note that in 1944, a Korean agent is a Japanese agent, since they have been annexed in 1910.

Those girls were deceived to believe they were going to do hospital jobs, NOT prostitution!

Actually, your link said they "assumed" and that it was not "specified". Taking this literally, the girls just filled in the blank themselves, a process called Wishful Thinking. No one actively deceived them. They were also "enlisted', not even "drafted", "conscripted" or "coerced".

By the way, the lack of a right to leave at any time does not make one a slave. Unless you want to argue most soldiers of the world are slaves. Plus, the article makes it quite clear that the master gets 50-60 percent because the girls owe a huge debt! Surely you won't deny the necessity of paying off debts?

Overall, even a quick glance at the link shows it to be much more two-sided and neutral than your summary of it is.

-11 ( +6 / -15 )

In a related story the Abe government has asked that that the Pearl Harbor attack be called an unfortunate boating accident.

7 ( +9 / -5 )

You cannot change the history! !!! History is based on the truth!!

So?? Then write the post with evidence.

Former comfort women aditted that they were actually sold by theier own parents to Japanese soliders because they were soo poor, and now just simply blaming Japan for money, since apology was done at Japanese Murayama Administration.

-7 ( +6 / -11 )

Former comfort women aditted that they were actually sold by theier own parents to Japanese soliders because they were soo poor, and now just simply blaming Japan for money, since apology was done at Japanese Murayama Administration.

I have to agree. Frankly, only the over-politicization of this issue makes McGraw-Hill not disadvantaged.

It depends on how far they went. If they went the "full-depth", as in "comfort women" = "sex slave", to make it stick they'd have to prove the preponderance of evidence shows that at least most comfort women are sex slaves. That's a very different level of requirement from saying "Some comfort women were sex slaves", for which at least evidence could be found.

And with what, only 200 women (let's forget how credible their 70-year old testimony is), they won't be able to credibly show that for 200,000 people.

-13 ( +4 / -15 )

hachikou

You cannot change the history! !!! History is based on the truth!!

So?? Then write the post with evidence.

Former comfort women aditted that they were actually sold by theier own parents to Japanese soliders because they were soo poor, and now just simply blaming Japan for money, since apology was done at Japanese Murayama Administration.

Well prove your point and what is your evidence supporting these stories? not just heresay...

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

It shows the utter disconnect the japanese 'elite' has from reality that they think anyone outside of the country could possibly subscribe to their version of History. the publisher should be offended that Japan even asked. Their official response to the Japanese government should contain at least one four-letter word.

8 ( +9 / -3 )

Former comfort women aditted that they were actually sold by theier own parents to Japanese soliders

Some sex slaves originated from poor parents. Does that mean hundreds of thousands of women followed suit? No. There is plenty of testimony out there to indicate how widespread it was. (And it isn't just Korean propaganda as some foolish posters here seem to believe. The sex slaves came from a number of countries.) Oh, and as this link shows Japan didn't fulfill its obligations to Korea with the normalisation treaty of 1965. http://www.japanfocus.org/-Totsuka-Etsuro/3885

So, Japan still has a lot of work to do. This move over textbooks in the US is an ill-advised one

4 ( +9 / -7 )

Oh, and as this link shows Japan didn't fulfill its obligations to Korea with the normalisation treaty of 1965. http://www.japanfocus.org/-Totsuka-Etsuro/3885

The concept of "State is bound by the obligation to make reparation, namely compensate, if the State breaches the obligation to punish" is far fetched considering the fact that none of these comfort women identified their Korean parents, Korean recruiters, and their Korean operators. Even if they do so (if they are alive that is), they have the legal recourse to do it in their own country which they have not done so.

The 1965 agreement is clear. The issues between the countries "have been settled completely and finally.'

-12 ( +6 / -17 )

OMG, I just copy & paste a time frame of comfort women and I get bunch of down vote. It's a fact! Nobody's ill-intention there! It's a FACT!

@Stuart Hayward

In Myitkyina the girls were usually quartered in a large two story house (usually a school building) with a separate room for each girl. There each girl lived, slept, and transacted business. In Myitkina their food was prepared by and purchased from the "house master" as they received no regular ration from the Japanese Army. They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.

While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.

The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer.

In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.

However there were numerous instances of proposals of marriage and in certain cases marriages actually took place.

Again, Japan was no saint and this report contains both good and bad. But this is a historical evidence. Primary source. There was no reason for the U.S. officials to side with Japan by trying to make Japan look more merciful, either. So I think what is written here is pretty close to the fact.

Also, recruitment ads which clearly state "ian-fu (comfort women=prostitution)" as a job title, posters that warns pimps and brokers kidnapping young women in both Japanese and Hangul, bank statements, paychecks, pictures of luxuriously dressed ladies smiling and having a leisure time with soldiers...such hard evidence are widely available on the Internet.

In a perfect world, there is no prostitutes, pimps, loan sharks, poverty, lack of education, misery, wars and crimes. Unfortunately, those unhappy elements have been part of our history and they still exists today. History isn't something to talk from narrow, one-sided perspective. Sure, some volunteered to earn money for war time survival, other got tricked into a sex business. Some parents had to give up their daughters to pay off debt, others got theirs kidnapped by a broker. Some officers were kind, others weren't. In my opinion, that is what happened.

-11 ( +5 / -15 )

Stuart haywardJan. 16, 2015 - 02:08PM JST

CH3CHO Says, "it does not say anything about the nationality or ethnicity of the Japanese agents"

Lol, the official statement clearly says JAPANESE AGENTS, it does NOT say Korean or any other nationality.

A Japanese agent may be a US national, a UK national, a Russian national or whatever national. A Japanese agent may be ethnic Korean, ethnic Chinese, ethnic German, or of whatever ethnicity. CIA has a lot of foreign national agents, does not it? Do we need to discuss any further to establish my point?

If a link does not say anything about nationality or ethnicity, we need to look at other links, do not we?

The definition of sex slave: A person who is forced into prostitution and held against their will

If that is your definition, those who were deceived are excluded.

If someone tells an unskilled woman that she can earn a lot of money by just doing some easy work and that she can also get a huge amount of advance payment with which her parents and siblings can live for a year or two, what do you think her job would be? Sticking bandaids?

-15 ( +4 / -17 )

Abe, are you reading the comments on this page?

If you aren’t, you should be.

Learn to face things and not run away from them and you might avoid another nervous breakdown.

8 ( +12 / -6 )

noypikantokuJan Well prove your point and what is your evidence supporting these stories? not just heresay...

I am SOOOO HAPPPY you agreed on this.

Many evidence, too much evidence that I put on JT message board every time this issue comes in!, And usually ended up with JT removing all my posts, which you are about to witness how freedom of speech is controlled making people believe the false story like "mainstream historian agreed that 200000 women bla bla bla..!!"

"Was sold to Kisaeng of Pyongyang at the age of 14, by mothers living has become difficult." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hak-sun

I found AD on newspaper at that time from ex-Japanese goverment recruiting Prostetution(which was ligeal at that time world wide). There are many images like this on Internet,, search yourself. < http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jvd4VYISqpE/UpYpFHdMyVI/AAAAAAAAAC4/Jx0sLSazAks/s1600/AdToRecruitComfortWomen.jpg>

THis is a tip of iceberg. There are also evidence that ex-Japanese military forbidding forcing women for prostetution. I will post more if this post remain unremoved... you see.

SO now your turn.. :) SHow the evidence the number of 200000 and forced by ex- Japanese goverment.

"Mainstream historians agree that around 200,000 women, mainly from Korea, but also from China, Taiwan and the Philippines, were forced to provide sex to Japanese soldiers in a formalised system of slavery..."

By the way, only a single known case which is very close to the theory that former-Japanese goverment IS resposible of forcning women to prostetution is known as a "Hakuba" case where Australian women were forced by a single JAPANESE MILITARY OFFICER, which was and is a crime, and when they found out, the brustel was shut down. After war, he committed suicide, Japanese goverment apologied and paid compensation. Well.. like crime happens in military like US military in Okinawa, but that doesn't mean whole US military is a bad one.

-12 ( +5 / -15 )

Mate you should be a politician. You'd fit in perfectly with that kind of fence-sitting diatribe. Even logic would dictate that there's no way in the world there were "camp followers" or "some" were forced. ALL of them were forced. Do you have any idea what the IA were capable of in WW2? They experimented on Chinese civilians in their labs. They canabalised Australian troops. ALL of this has been documented.

Calm down son and read my comment again. Nowhere do I suggest that any facts be downplayed or ignored. In fact I recommend the opposite. Pay particular attention to the part where I mention "Obvious exaggeration, positive or negative, should be avoided."

It's kind of ridiculous that people who were not even alive 70 plus years ago, are jumping up and down, regardless of their stance.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

hachikou

how reliable are your sources? seems like you just took these from Blogspots!? I mean I want to see Books, documentations, interviews of these people involved at what you claim. Names of these people. Even wikipedia is not a reliable source , Any 2 year old kid can make blogspots and write anything on the Internet. Name these "Mainstream Historians" who are backing up your statements. How reliable are these historians?

0 ( +3 / -4 )

@ hachikou

I think many West media use number 200,000 (they tend to avoid China's claim of 400,000 plus—wise move) based on Yoshimi's claim, but Yoshimi himself admitted he has not yet found a hard evidence. But many posters here confidently brag there are so many evidence...so Yoshimi, don't give up your hope.

Likely, though, "IJA burned all the evidence!!" is what you should expect. Along with slilent downvotes...

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

This is a classic example of denial. It didn't happen. The Japanese say it' not a fact. Then they say they have apologized and apologized many times.

Why did you apologize and apologize many times if it did not happen? Have you apologized regarding sex slaves?

Why do the textbooks in Japan mention about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What if the US government asked publishers here to change that to "a quick clean end to the war" or " Get there before the Russians do?"

The US and Japan do the same thing. Everyone should just call it whatever term it suits them.

3 ( +5 / -4 )

CH3CHO: "If that is your definition, those who were deceived are excluded."

So you admit people were deceived, then. Good on you! You just want to call it something else.

5 ( +10 / -7 )

I am looking for this image with English translation. Basically this is the order from TOP about the way recuruting comfortwomen. =>watch out suspicious (Korean)pimp who supposedly bring girls who were kiddnapped. =>in such case, contact and cooporate with poice http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/o/b/roboukoishi/gunkanyo1.jpg 要約 軍に慰安所設置の了解を得ていることを利用して、一般市民の誤解を招くような行為をする業者、誘拐まがいのことをして警察に取調べを受けるような業者、そのような業者が存在するので警察と連携して、軍の威信が損なわれないように注意する命令書である。 You can tell, ex- Japanese military was careful about collecting prostetutions.

Prostetution AD on newspaper Salary is equivalen to university grad. Loan is available. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jvd4VYISqpE/UpYpFHdMyVI/AAAAAAAAAC4/Jx0sLSazAks/s1600/AdToRecruitComfortWomen.jpg

Sorry typo, in my former post Austratialn -> Dutch Hakuba -> Shirouma

-8 ( +3 / -10 )

@Christopher Glen JAN. 16, 2015 - 02:48PM JST

Oh, and as this link shows Japan didn't fulfill its obligations to Korea with the normalisation treaty of 1965. http://www.japanfocus.org/-Totsuka-Etsuro/3885

I've read it, and I must disagree with this compression. The Constitutional Court certainly may demand the Korean government try to use Article 3. However, the Korean government probably has a better idea of the real chances of success or how this would come down in international law. Though the comfort women issue has been politicized in a way very favorable to Korea, they still won't be able to win. There are limits to how you can mediate away terms like "have been settled completely and finally". It does not say Japan did nothing wrong, just that everything has been "settled completely and finally." Thus, whether Japan may have violated for example ILO Convention 29 or some nebulous "obligation to punish" (which, can, by the way, be counted under "rights" or "interests") is not really relevant - the fact Japan tacitly admitted to some wrongdoing is why there was even a loan & grant in the relevant treaty at all. It cannot be used to justify re-opening an issue "settled completely and finally", or to say Japan did not really fulfill the treaty, and I think the South Korean government knows it.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

CH3 - the only bandaids being applied are those by the Japanese govt & sympathizers on the festering sore that is this problem of comfort women.

It's not about exact numbers, hard cut you're right you're wrong - it's about Abe & Co being able to see it from a world perspective and understand that their view will never be wholly accepted. It's that simple. There is too much doubt around their argument for others to about face.

Any leader worth his or her salt would be able to comprehend this reality, and go about making the necessary tough statements, in order to allow the common people of Japan to gain respect and not be tainted by bigotry.

Abe's pride will be the downfall of him and his comfort women agenda as it exists now with a decidely anachronistic slant, will be the propagator of such.

7 ( +11 / -5 )

Please don't try to get us to implement your propaganda. kthxbye

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ hachikou

Here's the text version:

**Published on Nov 3, 2014受領番号:陸支密受第二一九七号 起元庁(課名):兵務課

    件名:軍慰安所従業婦等募集に関する件

・保存期間:永久(印) ・決裁指定:局長委任(印) ・決行指定:櫛淵(陸軍省大臣官房副官) 押印

・次官     梅津(陸軍省次官) 押印 ・高級副官 櫛淵(陸軍省大臣官房副官)押印 ・主務局長 今村均(陸軍省兵務局長) 押印  他、主務副官・主務課長・主務課員 押印

陸支密

副官ヨリ北支方面軍及中支駐屯派遣軍参謀長宛通牒案

支那事変地ニ於ケル慰安所設置ノ為内地ニ於テ之カ従業婦等ヲ募集スルニ当リ故ラニ軍部諒解等ノ名儀ヲ利用シ為ニ軍ノ威信ヲ傷ツケ且ツ一般民ノ誤解ヲ招ク虞アルモノ或イハ従軍記者慰問者等ヲ介シテ不統制ニ募集シ社会問題ヲ惹起スル虞アルモノ或イハ募集ニ任スル者ノ人選適切ヲ欠キ為ニ募集ノ方法誘拐ニ類シ警察当局ニ検挙取調ヲ受クルモノアル等注意ヲ要スルモノ少カラサルニ就テハ将来是等ノ募集等ニ当リテハ派遣軍ニ於テ統制シ之ニ任スル人物ノ選定ヲ周到適切ニシ其実施ニ当リテハ関係地方ノ憲兵及警察当局トノ連繋ヲ密ニシ以テ軍ノ威信保持上並ニ社会問題上遺漏ナキ様配慮相成度依命通牒ス

陸支密七四五号  昭和十三年三月四日

Classified Order No.745 by Japanese Army entitled "Regarding Recruites of Female Workers at Military Comfort Houses" issued on March 4, 1938 reads:

"Concerning the recruitment of female workers for organizing comfort houses at..., there are many cases that recruiters were apprehended and interrogated by the police authority due to their way of recruitment being similar to kidnapping.

Therefore, from this time forth, the recruitment shall be implemented under the control of dispatched armies..., so that the utmost caution shall be taken to conserve the dignity of the Army of Japan and prevent this matter from developing into a social problem.**

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

noypikantokuJan

Once again! I agree with you. Blog cannot be trusted, neither from Japanese or Korean side. So what is the reliable source? Testimony can be false as well. At least I posted some newspaper or document photo as reference, that are now wildely spreaded over internet. (please try image search) At least I didn't find any websites that counter-claim thoese references by Korean side.

We all agree that it takes "some time" to boild down to the truth or close to the truth. It took more thatn 20years. Japan has been there going throughh many phases.

First Japaense public was sorry and sympathetic to all comfort women, around 1990. This is why Murayama priminister apologied on the theory of "We might have done it" .. Kouno minister visited Korea and although,he couldn't find any direct involvement, but he was told by Korean politicians,

Korean : "Please admit it, then we will let it go." "言謝ってくれれば今後一切慰安婦のことは言わない" This is 河野対談, which is going to be a big probem.

But this good conscience theory didn'T work. because Korean's anti-Japanese campagin just continues. Japanese peope start to be skeptical about Koreans claim including other issue like teritorial issue. Many books were writted and whole country was in the middle of debate between those who believed and non-believed. And now Japan is getting close to mature phase, where they are more confident with evidence not emotional.

I believe none Japanese people believed that 200000 women were FORCED BY J-MIITARY claim.

-12 ( +4 / -14 )

Stuart haywardJan. 16, 2015 - 02:08PM JST

Make people? Realize the reality? That sounds very similar to German Gestapo tactics.

Why are you so afraid of truth?

Though I'm sure you can't find any links, showing that these girls were Free to leave anytime, even if they could escape, they didn't have the money nor means to do so.

In 2013, a diary of a Korean manager of iansho, comfort station/brothel was found in Korea and was published. It was also translated into Japanese.http://www.naksung.re.kr/xe/index.php?mid=sepdate&document_srl=181713&ckattempt=1

On February 1, 1944, he took 5 ianfu who were returning home to the station and bid farewell.

On April 6, 1944, he took 3 ianfu who were returning home to the station and bid farewell.

On April 14, 1944, he sent earnings of two ianfu who had returned to Korea by cable from a bank.

On June 5, 1944, he bid farewell to two ianfu who were returning home.

On June 1 1944, he sent earnings of one ianfu who had returned to Korea by cable from a bank.

The diary goes on. Do I need to show you more?

-16 ( +3 / -17 )

Hachikou

You cannot even tell what is a reliable source and not. So why would people believe your points?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yeah but to be fair note where it mentions the concerns of Japanese citizens disconnected from events of seven decades ago. Thing is I truly believe if China and S Korea had lived up to the treaties after the war( the ones normalizing relations and made reparations ) and not continued to bring this up over and over and over again none of this would be an issue. Japan wouldn't be doing all this. Not saying it's right. But then again I side is right in this. Dragging it out like this is doing more harm then good.

-5 ( +3 / -7 )

noypikantokuJAN. 16, 2015 - 03:21PM JST

how reliable are your sources? seems like you just took these from Blogspots!? I mean I want to see Books, documentations, interviews of these people involved at what you claim.

I would too. Unfortunately, we are not likely to ever see so called "reputable" sources cover this side.

While the "sex slave" side would clearly want to interpret this as proof of the "overwhelming evidence" on their side, this issue is nevertheless overly politicized, as can be seen by the venom of many on this thread. It seems the narrow-minds cannot even stretch to imagine the possibility that the "right-wingers" may genuinely feel they have a case, and starting from this standpoint, it is entirely appropriate to try and fight back though it may be a hard road.

It would be one thing if such strong opinions are the fruit of extensive personal study of the issue, but it is doubtful that this is the case (in fact, many seem to find it hard pressed to link to even one piece of evidence, instead preferring to parrot claims of "mainstream historians"). On the basis of this horrifying weak personal preparation, a strong prejudice is formed that turns a matter of academic dispute or historic interest into a battle of the very nature of the person.

And I think this strong politicization ultimately hurts the cause of the "sex slave" side, because it is all too obvious that the opposition is effectively silenced. The problem with that is that in such a state, you cannot assess whether there is a valid opposition at all. And for those that are unconvinced, there is good reason to be suspicious of such a state.

Unless of course, the strong politicization actually covers up the weakness of the "sex slave" side, something which I occasionally am prompted to believe by the crumminess of some evidence that does get brought up. A few guys under a lieutenant. Stretching a primary source that does not really say what the pro side wants.

I hadn't seen the textbook, but I suspect that McGraw's mistake here was to overstretch. They'd have been on safe ground if they blathered something like "Mainstream historians believe (Blah, blah)" like our article. Or maybe "There is a substantial pool of evidence to suggest that a large percentage of comfort women are sex slaves, being coerced against their will." Instead, it is probable they just wrote "The Japanese government took a lot of sex slaves, which they call comfort women." When that happens, their burden of proof skyrockets for a very small gain in the force of the text.

-14 ( +4 / -16 )

Kazuaki: "I hadn't seen the textbook, but I suspect that McGraw's mistake here was to overstretch."

Actually, one of the big problems is that you automatically assume they made a 'mistake' by calling sexual slavery what it is, instead of listening to Japan try and quietly beg them to 'correct' what's written (ie. remove content and/or use euphemism to make Japan look less guilty). But hey, why listen to the women who were there, or the imperial soldiers who have admitted to it. Let's listen instead to 'historians' who were never there, may have been related to war criminals, and who claim it's all fabrication and in the case of sex slaves insist they were all prostitutes (meanwhile people like CH3CHO keep changing their definitions of what that means!).

5 ( +10 / -7 )

smithinjapanJan. 16, 2015 - 03:27PM JST

CH3CHO: "If that is your definition, those who were deceived are excluded."

So you admit people were deceived, then. Good on you! You just want to call it something else.

How can my comment be interprited that I admit people were deceived?

smithinjapanJan. 16, 2015 - 04:57PM JST

and in the case of sex slaves insist they were all prostitutes (meanwhile people like CH3CHO keep changing their definitions of what that means!).

Would you show me how my definition keeps changing?

I hope you stop those non senses on my comment.

-14 ( +4 / -17 )

Does anyone, even Abe, doubt that the Japanese army was not entirely capable of 'enslaving' women for sex given that they raped, pillaged, murdered and tortured their way throughout the Asian region during th war? Why fight it?

10 ( +12 / -3 )

All I know is it wasn't much 'Comfort' for the women forced to be 'Sex Slaves'!!

10 ( +10 / -2 )

Actually, one of the big problems is that you automatically assume they made a 'mistake' by calling sexual slavery what it is, instead of listening to Japan try and quietly beg them to 'correct' what's written (ie. remove content and/or use euphemism to make Japan look less guilty).

I didn't automatically assume they made a mistake. I just point out depending how they worded their textbook, they may have put themselves into a spot that's particularly hard to defend.

If I unconditionally accept the testimony of every comfort women (despite the problems with their testimony being sufficiently large even non-Japanese are inclined to comment), with only a few hundred of them, even applying a gain of one hundred (every one of them can accurately describe the fate of 100 similar cases around them, and they don't overlap), they can only testify to the fate of about 50,000 comfort women (out of 200,000 claimed by "mainstream historians").

That's sufficient to justify a remark like "Based on testimony of the comfort women, as many as a quarter of them were coerced into service." But not a sentence that equated the two terms (as seems very popular in the West) - that's where I suspect McGraw overreached.

You might want to defend them, but then you'll have to come up with convincing evidence that proves that nearly all comfort women were sex slaves (and try not to dilute the word too much).

But hey, why listen to the women who were there,

The women who claimed to be there (note your unconditional acceptance - if you were equally unconditionally accepting of the counterclaims, you will conclude there's no problem at all).

But anyway, if you want to believe them, that's your choice. What I do feel is a bit bigoted, however, is your apparent inability to even consider the viewpoint of people who feel that any 50-year old testimony is suspect, even before cross-examination.

or the imperial soldiers who have admitted to it.

From what I've seen of those, I'll leave them out of the stack if I were you. They are OK, I guess, if all you want to show is that some sex slavery did happen. However, given your advocacy to equate the two terms, they are counterproductive, because they indicate what happened were low-level, individualized accidents (for example, that Lieutenant who grabbed a few locals after their daddies attacked the occupation army).

Your opponents can eat this "blow" rather easily, because the population that denies the existence of comfort women is non-existent, and with a substantial prostitute body, that a few accidents happened is a concedable concept.

-11 ( +5 / -14 )

The 1965 agreement is clear. The issues between the countries "have been settled completely and finally.'

Nope. The international treaties Japan signed onto were not covered by the 1965 treaty - which let's be honest if it was offered today it would be rejected by the South Korean people. The military dictatorship which ruled South Korea at the time accepted it out of expedience. If you read the link I posted previously this is made clear.

So you admit people were deceived, then. Good on you! You just want to call it something else.

A valid point indeed

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Lets see the textbook and the passage.

Then we can all agree (or decide) whether or not it is appropriate.

Anyone got any connections?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Mcfraw Hill should compromise by adding a line to say that the existence of sex slave is something that the current government of Japan denies.

Of course, the Deputy Prime Minister's family did not have slaves working in their mines either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aso_Mining_forced_labor_controversy

3 ( +5 / -3 )

igloobuyerJan. 16, 2015 - 05:50PM JST

they raped, pillaged, murdered and tortured their way throughout the Asian region during th war?

The problem is that not a sigle battle took place in Korea during WW2, unlike other areas in Asia. Hence no war related raping, murdering, or torturing.

In addition, rape is totally different from prostitution. You should not confuse them.

-19 ( +4 / -23 )

I love how these right wing fascists want to "correct" history to continue with their disgusting glorification of war criminals. It's just easier to manipulate the sheep that way.

Reality to Japan: History is history and must be taught fully, you can't whitewash it to your convenience.

5 ( +8 / -4 )

Sorry the truth stands... Too bad they can't invent a viewer only time machine and show everyone on all countries what really happened.

3 ( +4 / -2 )

Nope. The international treaties Japan signed onto were not covered by the 1965 treaty - which let's be honest if it was offered today it would be rejected by the South Korean people. The military dictatorship which ruled South Korea at the time accepted it out of expedience. If you read the link I posted previously this is made clear.

They were when a batch of money was sent over to settle the problem.

You might be right that SK won't accept such a deal today, but that's no reason to invalidate a signed treaty.

In essence, advocates like you want Korea to have the right to revoke treaties based on its own feelings and desires. Surely, this can only be described as reprehensible.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

They were when a batch of money was sent over to settle the problem.

Money doesn't solve everything. In this case - only true honesty and repentance will solve this matter for Japan.

0 ( +4 / -5 )

Learn to face things and not run away from them.

Pot kettle black...

-4 ( +2 / -5 )

Michael Craig at Jan. 16, 2015 - 07:15AM JST

"You cannot rewrite history! Not one line!" - William Hartnell (The First Doctor Who) from the story "The Aztecs".

Why don't you think about the possibility that it has already been rewritten?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"comfort women" looks more like another term of discrimination against women.

"sex slave" is equal toward both participants no matter what the gender is, in other words no discrimination there.

because they both involved and both were slaves to themselves and to the system. how can you call that being comforted when your partner is not someone you love?

-4 ( +1 / -3 )

By just looking at these comments, all I can say, it's so funny how people can be desperate haters of something, in this case, Japan. Some old folks here are even ready to shame Japan and propagate his/her one-sided opinion to his/her friends and saying Japan must never be forgiven? Wow, talk about being lifeless! hhahahhaha

-10 ( +4 / -12 )

The Japanese government is wasting its time if it ever thinks that particular view of history will become internationally accepted. And the more it tries to 'correct' a 70 year old 'misunderstanding' the more guilty it looks. The shriller its demands that the world accept Japan's version of history the more annoying and irrelevant it will seem in a world that is beset with its own very pressing and immediate problems in the present.

Its not a particularly difficult feat to force feed a generally compliant and politically apathetic populace with an anlternative past, but it is quite another to convince an entire planet that believes differently.

8 ( +8 / -2 )

kazuaki: "I didn't automatically assume they made a mistake."

You literally said 'mistake'.

""I hadn't seen the textbook, but I suspect that McGraw's mistake here was to overstretch.""

I contend they have made no mistake, as does the rest of the world save a few apologists and people in denial like yourself. Now you can't even say you said 'mistake'.

titaniumdioxide: "By just looking at these comments, all I can say, it's so funny how people can be desperate haters of something, in this case, Japan."

Look in the mirror, bud. Clearly you're the one who hates Japan, otherwise you'd be admitting sexual slavery and saying the government should as well, not trying to hide, yet again, and claim it's others doing your nation wrong. Shame on you. No one needs to go to any lengths at all to justifiably make you look bad -- you do it yourself. And if you try and deny THAT as well, then ask yourself why they are asking McGraw to 'correct' their books. :)

6 ( +8 / -4 )

From the New York Times: "These were not commercial brothels. Force, explicit and implicit, was used in recruiting these women. What went on in them was serial rape, not prostitution. The Japanese Army's involvement is documented in the government's own defense files. A senior Tokyo official more or less apologized for this horrific crime in 1993 ... Yesterday, he grudgingly acknowledged the 1993 quasi apology, but only as part of a pre-emptive declaration that his government would reject the call, now pending in the United States Congress, for an official apology. America isn't the only country interested in seeing Japan belatedly accept full responsibility. Korea, China, and the Philippines are also infuriated by years of Japanese equivocations over the issue."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06tues3.html

10 ( +11 / -3 )

Christopher Glen JAN. 16, 2015 - 08:20PM JST

Money doesn't solve everything. In this case - only true honesty and repentance will solve this matter for Japan.

First, as far as a treaty is concerned, it does. You took the cash, signed the treaty, the end. (That's probably why no South Korean government has tried to play "the hero".)

As for true honesty and repentance, since this is essentially being raked up after 50 years. To convince Japanese (and here I don't mean the so called "liberals"), I believe, will require a much more academic (aka less politicized) environment where it might actually be possible to propose an alternate view without the hate waves. Without saying anybody that disagrees must be dishonest. Only then can the issues be hashed out in a neutral and professional manner.

BTW, for the record, I hold a similar view on Nanking and heck even the Holocaust. One reason they can immerse most, but not all the population is simply because it has become politically impossible (in Europe and the Holocaust, legally) to suggest otherwise. And everyone knows it. If you are already convinced, you won't mind. If you are not yet so, you won't be convinced in such an environment.

Sorry the truth stands... Too bad they can't invent a viewer only time machine and show everyone on all countries what really happened.

Has the possibility that when the time machine gets built ... it might just show that the right-wingers were right after all (at least for the most part) ... even occur to you?

-10 ( +4 / -12 )

browny1Jan. 16, 2015 - 03:33PM JST

it's about Abe & Co being able to see it from a world perspective and understand that their view will never be wholly accepted. It's that simple. There is too much doubt around their argument for others to about face.

Any leader worth his or her salt would be able to comprehend this reality.

Tell so to Galileo, and he would admit the sun moves around the earth.

gaijintravellerJan. 16, 2015 - 06:40PM JST

Of course, the Deputy Prime Minister's family did not have slaves working in their mines either.

Here again, a cheap attempt to misguide people. http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/SlaveryConvention.aspx

Slavery Convention of 1926 distinguishes "slavery" from "compulsory labor for public purposes." Read Article 5.

Subject to the transitional provisions laid down in paragraph (2) below, compulsory or forced labour may only be exacted for public purposes.

Some of Aso's mines were essential to the national economy, Japanese government provided conscripted workers under National Mobilization Act during the last years of WW2. The workers fall on "compulsory laborers for public purposes" and are not slaves.

-16 ( +3 / -18 )

As I had written before, History has and will continue to be His Story. It is written by the victors and is protrayed as the truth. No one person or country should be be above changing truths into lies and vice versa. Which due respect to many of the readers here, how many of you truly knows the events of the past? Also have may of you prior to even commenting already have a bias in regards to the subject matter. My point is that we as humans in order to try and begin to make a better future can not single out one country alone for past offenses if we are not able or willing to open that to the world in general. Can it be that easy to be judgemental of events and issues of the past without ever having the complete knowledge of those events? Or would it be much easier and fruitful to see what a country has done during our time and our ability to gain more availability and knowledge to learn more of the facts? Let try harder to move forward and as my grandfather once said; It you stir in old s&^t, it will only smell worst.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Now, folks here know why Washington does not take Abe’s admin seriously. To put this in a simple yet complex way: in the core, Abe and co are just a bunch of right-wingers, revisionists and nationalists who deny, deny and deny the atrocious crimes committed by Japanese army during WWII.

However, to judge the results so far, Abe and co have failed to gain any support on the international stage as for thise attempts to whitewash the history . On the contrary, U.N is working to approve heritage sites used by Japanese army sex slavery in order to allow new generations to remember victims of horrendous human right violations

Make no mistake; McGraw-Hill is not NHK.

9 ( +10 / -3 )

I could not agree more. NHK is an embarrassment. No one will ever take Japanese leaders seriously if they keep acting like seven year old kids (and that is an insult to seven year old kids).

10 ( +10 / -2 )

It is school textbooks but now adulsts will srart to look at what is all avout commotion. Japanese Foreign Ministry meant to accuse private publisher. Then adult will find what was all about. If the publisher used translation of Ianfu as comfort women, school children will think that is massage therapists. Slave is known in USA. Thus Sex Slave is more applicable word for Ianfu, Luckily for GaimuSho, US Media is too busy on France that no channels discussed about textbooks not using Massage Therapist as Ianfu translation. Just let American none HS students to dig WW II history they did not know. Again Comfort Women in USA are massage therapist women. Majority are women therapists everywhere. Some large tourist cities such as Las Vagas, advertisements on TV state "We ladies will comfort your tired body day ans night"

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Our taxes at work. Abe and the LDP revisionis trying to push their lies abroad. Making enemies for Japan just at the time this country friends.

5 ( +5 / -1 )

McGraw-Hill is not only one textbook publisher in USA. Each state of 50 states in USA, State commitee of Education specify their state textbook publisher. So, now, Japanese Gaimusho mentioned about WW iII partial history that different text publishers will copycat McGrow Hill writings. The scholars assigned in various textbook publishers will dig around WW II histories. especially Japanese roles. Don't blame publishers. Gaimusho opened up. Gaimusho did not know USA textbooksa are not published by only one publisher in USA. Not like Japan.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Nope. The international treaties Japan signed onto were not covered by the 1965 treaty - which let's be honest if it was offered today it would be rejected by the South Korean people. The military dictatorship which ruled South Korea at the time accepted it out of expedience. If you read the link I posted previously this is made clear.

What a lame response. Why on god's earth would Japan offer what will be a 'supplemental' deal on top of the one received in 1965? And don't be so quick to judge that SK would reject it considering the fact that it's what they are seeking which is 'compensation'.

Your position that the 1965 is invalid due to the nature of the 1965 government reasoning resembles that of mob like extortion tactic. But the again, that's essentially what the South Korean government has been doing for the past couple of the decades or so.

-12 ( +5 / -15 )

@noypikantoku

Hachikou You cannot even tell what is a reliable source and not. So why would people believe your points?

Hachikou presented an ad from newspaper at the time of event and a Japanese military official document to back up his point. Both are primary sources. Now, please, we are still waiting on your hard evidence to prove your point. Please note that an editorial or opinion of today's newspaper written without proper reference such as "many historians claim~" and "it is commonly accepted among scholars~" is not concidered as a proof. And other pathetic silent downvoters who still thinks this is a popurarity contest, please do join the discussion with flooding primary sources to back up the number 200,000. Inconsistant testemony is not a primary source, not every documents were burned, we already went over Dutch women case and it was awful and no one is covering it up, and second-hand opinion is not an evidence. Anything will help!

And if anyone here speaks good Korean, can you give those newspaper articles a better translation?

http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/o/b/roboukoishi/148830_3373035144898_67361652_n.jpg

1933.06.30 an article of 東亜日報. A young girl was abducted by Korean brokers and sold into prosutitution. 朝鮮総督府 (Governor-General of Korea) ordered Chosen police to arrest them.

http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/o/b/roboukoishi/563918_3373156147923_951656332_n.jpg

1939.08.31 an article of 東亜日報. Over 100 young girls were abducted by underground Korean brokers armed and attacked a village in Manchuria. Detectives were rushed to rescue those women from 釜山 (Busan.)

0 ( +5 / -5 )

But anyway, if you want to believe them, that's your choice. What I do feel is a bit bigoted, however, is your apparent inability to even consider the viewpoint of people who feel that any 50-year old testimony is suspect, even before cross-examination.

Cross examination doesn't make any sense because there aren't enough witnesses who are alive for one thing, and the surviving ones are elderly by now. Not to mention it happen very long time ago.

-1 ( +2 / -2 )

Lets see the textbook and the passage.

Then we can all agree (or decide) whether or not it is appropriate.

Anyone got any connections?

Comfort Women Tradition & Encounters:A Global Perspective on the Past, McGraw-Hill, 2011, p.853.

"Women's experiences in war were not always ennobling or empowering. The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers". The army presented the women to the troops as a gift from the emperor, and the women came from Japanese colonies such as Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria and from occupied territories in the Philippines and elsewhere in southeast Asia. The majority of the women came from Korea and China.

Once forced into this imperial prostitution service, the "comfort women" catered to between twenty and thirty men each day. Stationed in war zones, the women often confronted the same risks as soldiers, and many became casualties of war. Others were killed by Japanese soldiers, especially if they tried to escape or contracted venereal diseases. At the end of the war, soldiers massacred large numbers of comfort women to cover up the operation. The impetus behind the establishment of comfort houses for Japanese soldiers came from the horrors of Nanjing, where the mass rape of Chinese women had taken place. In trying to avoid such atrocities, the Japanese army created another horror of war. Comfort women who survived the war experienced deep shame and hid their past or faced shunning by their families. They found little comfort or peace after the war."

-4 ( +7 / -12 )

@nigelboy: I think the publisher wrote tamely because this is a textbook article, not a magazine article. Somewhere else's textbooks as my grandchildren in out city never mentioned. Gaimusho goofed.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

My goodness, revisionists and deniers hardly get enough sleep do they. Denialboy up at 4:20 , tut tut .

5 ( +7 / -4 )

The debate rages on...

Although a lot of controversy seems to lie in the minutia of just how the women got to the comfort stations, I have always found it curious that their actually situation at the stations is continually called into question (ie. were they forced into providing sexual services and unable to leave, or were they all well-paid prostitutes). Considering that Japan was officially censured on numerous occasions for enslaving large numbers of allied prisoners of war (along with Nazi Germany), not to mention others peoples, why is so hard to accept that women might have found themselves similarly enslaved?

It seems difficult to see how slavery could be kosher with regards to POWs, but then so 'improbable' when it comes to women.

3 ( +4 / -2 )

It seems difficult to see how slavery could be kosher with regards to POWs, but then so 'improbable' when it comes to women.

The flaw in your argument is that is comfort women were POW when the evidence clearly suggests it's not.

"...While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping..."

"Every comfort girl' was employed on the following contract conditions. She received fifty percent of her own gross takings and was provided with free passage, free food and free medical treatment.."

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf

My goodness, revisionists and deniers hardly get enough sleep do they. Denialboy up at 4:20 , tut tut .

Was this necessary? Concept of different 'time zone' mean anything to you?

-11 ( +4 / -14 )

nigelboy- Thanks for sharing the passage. It indeed conflicts 'with our nation’s stance on the issue of ‘comfort women'.

But notice it only names the army, it does not take any stance on the actual governments (at that time) involvement which seems to be the part that is most protested by the current government.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

27 upvotes for JTDanMan's "In other news, Republican asks U.S. publisher to change ' slave' reference in textbooks to "comfort labor."

The people posting here are mostly denouncing a Japanese attempt to rewrite history. And yet, a rewrite of American history (Republicans actually freed the slaves) get 27 upvotes. Doesn't reflect too well on what kind of people are here.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

HansaramJan. 17, 2015 - 04:04AM JST Cross examination doesn't make any sense because there aren't enough witnesses who are alive for one thing, and the surviving ones are elderly by now. Not to mention it happen very long time ago.

There were many chances for cross examination in the 70's, but they didn't. In the early 70's, over 120 surviving comfort women, filed a lawsuit against their own South Korean government to reclaim, they say, human dignity and proper compensation. At that time, the suit came as embarrassment for the South Korean government. The women claim the South Korean government trained them and worked with pimps to run a sex trade through the 1960s and 1970s for U.S. troops, encouraged women to work as prostitutes and violated their human rights. The U.S. military in South Korea was aware of reports of the lawsuit. The South Korean government was desperate to keep U.S. troops in the 60's after war with North Korea and wanted the women to serve as patriots. These women were treated as marketable item used to boost a post-war economy. In the lawsuit, they claim Korean government ran classes for them in code of behavior and praised them for earning dollars when South Korea was poor.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"Was this necessary? Concept of different 'time zone' mean anything to you?"

No, because I know that you are in Japan, employed as a sock-puppet for JT Touche !

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But notice it only names the army, it does not take any stance on the actual governments (at that time) involvement which seems to be the part that is most protested by the current government.

Yes. That's why I question that textbook passage based on primary evidence which includes reports as below.

"A prisoner of war, a civilian brothel owner captured with his wife and twenty army prostitutes near Waingmaw on 10 August 1944, stated:

"Prisoner of war, his wife and sister in law had made some money as restaurant keepes in Keijo, Korea but their trade declining, they looked for an opportunity to make more money and applied to Army Headquarters in Keijo for permission to take 'comfort girls' from Korea to Burma. According to prisoner of war, the suggetion originated from Army Headquarters and was passed to number of similar Japanese 'business man' in Korea.

"Prisoner of war purchased 22 Korean girls, paying their families from 300 to 1000 yen according to the personality, looks and age of the girl. The 22 girls were of ages from 19 to 31. They became the sole property of prisoner of war and the Army made no profits from them..."

or

"...The interrogations further show that the health of these girls was good. They were well supplied with all types of contraceptives, and often soldiers would bring their own which had been supplied by the army. They were well trained in looking after both themselves and customers in the matter of hygiene. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital..."

or

POW Maekawa, Yasuo captured 22 February 1944 stated

"Prostitutes in Rabaul had been sent away several months before he left because of the danger from bombing.."

-10 ( +5 / -13 )

nigelboy and others, you people should present your distorted and cherry picked 'evidences' to all the mainstream world historians who have extensively studied this case and who all agree they were sex slaves of Japanese imperial army. And ask them why they don't get with the program that Japan is attempting to push.

3 ( +7 / -5 )

The textbook copy nigelboy wrote does not include the words of sex slave. So it seems that any reference of Ianfu Gaimusho wants to delete. gaimusho is the one defined Ianfu is sex slave in this case.

@Hotmail: You are the one distorting. Comment writers are writing what they read on experts' report. I mean a majority. Nigelboy wrote textbook copy that I can not get in my area and I am sure he did not write the text, Try to be a coolMail instead of concentratin insult all of us who at least write comments related to the article.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

you people should present your distorted and cherry picked 'evidences' to all the mainstream world historians who have extensively studied this case and who all agree they were sex slaves of Japanese imperial army. And ask them why they don't get with the program that Japan is attempting to push.

An excellent point. Maybe because they know their distorted version would be torn to pieces in 2 seconds

-1 ( +4 / -6 )

CH3 - "tell so to Galileo" - A beautiful strawman deflection . Irrelevance epitomized.

I'm going to use that in my next uni course with law students as how to not debate successfully.

Please attempt to reply to my comment that suggested Abe is not looking at the whole picture and dragging down Japan's positive image esp those of it's citizens.

This whole fiasco, of foreign ministry diplomats - representatives of Japan - trying to convince a private publisher of note in the usa, to rewrite words to match a part of world history created in their(Japan) own image and not shared by others, was surely doomed to fail. Now Japan has attracted more negative international press coverage and the hole is getting deeper & deeper.

Thanks Abe, but no thank you.

2 ( +5 / -4 )

Hotmail at Jan. 17, 2015 - 09:09AM JST

Seems like just saying "everyone agrees with me, so I'm correct." Making no sense. You should at least show who's arguing that and why you think ALL historian agree.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Maybe one shouldl forward this to Charlie Hebdo, I can imagine a nice satirical cartoon made over this ;)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This issue is a multilayered problem. Wartimes are messy and it will be not possible to justify the stance, that there was just one kind of relationship between Japanese soldiers and local females. Therefore saying "sex slaves" might be a bit crude in respect to the sensibility this issue requires. But to demand that there was absolutely no sexual abuse taking place is also impossible.

What this discussion needs is not only the re-inspection of historical findings, but also more transparency about the intentions of all parties involved. In case the Japanese government accepts the theory that sex slavery was a systemised practice of the Japanese Army during WWII, it will of course have consequences.

It might be impossible to give fair judgement for every single case on record from a 2015 viewpoint, as the state of evidence is sketchy 70years after the events took place.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If some of the comfort women were sold into the business by their parents (a system persisting among the Japanese population at least as far as the transfer at age 5 of Mineko Iwasaki from her birth family to a geisha house in around 1954, according to her memoir, IIRC), or of some other women entered the business voluntarily, knowing what they were getting into, it doesn't negate accounts of those who were deceived or forced into slavery, including accounts from thosed forced from native populations, that I posted on a previous thread. The less-awful accounts don't make the most-awful accounts less true.

It wasn't one little old man sitting in an office in the basement of the Japanese War Dept. making a no-forced-comfort-women policy that he sent down the line to one local commander who faithfully enforced it. Militaries are made up of thousands to millions of people, more conformant than civilian populations are wont to be, but for all that, nothing like the oneness of ants. They just appear the same because we are standing off, looking back from afar, 70 years on.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

CH3CHO, thank you for the links. They are very helpful.

I agree with what Mr. Michael Yon, journalist says;

"The comfort women issue is largely a fabricate sham, and even a scam."

https://twitter.com/michael_yon/status/528796199718256640

He has reached this conclusion through official US documents and other researches.

http://eng.the-liberty.com/2014/5641/

There are already lots of people who have noticed the deceit under the 'ear-pleasing' cover of "Women's rights issue", knowing the facts. This is very encouraging to Japanese people. Japan should just keep telling the world the facts, only the facts that McGraw-Hill is trying to ignore.

-2 ( +5 / -6 )

turbotsatJAN. 17, 2015 - 11:30AM JST It wasn't one little old man sitting in an office in the basement of the Japanese War Dept. making a no-forced-comfort-women policy that he sent down the line to one local commander who faithfully enforced it. Militaries are made up of thousands to millions of people, more conformant than civilian populations are wont to be, but for all that, nothing like the oneness of ants. They just appear the same because we are standing off, looking back from afar, 70 years on.

So, to follow your image: I see the Japanese Government doesn't want to agree with the implication about a little man who wrote, that if the troops cannot source "supplies" they may forcefully take them in whatever way they need to. Thus making the "sex slavery" a systematic part of the Japanese Military practice in WWII.

What a shame that so much public funding is spend on unsustainable stuff, but nobody had the idea or will to found some sort of international academic institution to take care of these topics.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

warausalesman: What a shame that so much public funding is spend on unsustainable stuff, but nobody had the idea or will to found some sort of international academic institution to take care of these topics.

I wonder if the comfort women have any lobbyists, and if so how they stack up against the lobbyists hired by established interests. Probably not very high. Maybe has something to do with the situation stretching out so long, 1945 to now.

Present article being a point in case. Who'd expect Japan to be lobbying US textbook publishers?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@commanteer, Yes, republicans helped free the slaves, but what you should understand is that back then, they were not like republicans are in today's times. Same party name of course, but different.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@sfjp330

You do realize that still doesn't disprove about the sex slavery issues right even without cross examination? Cross examination only go as far. Look at the bigger picture. Sex slavery don't just happen in Korea but also happen here in SEA. Tons of eyewitnesses reported the same thing everywhere. No cross examination no big deal.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Thank Christ for modern communications. The truth always comes out. Abe is as much of an idiot for pushing this as Cameron is for insisting that everyone needs to allow their emails to be read by MI-5. Both leaders are out of touch, and behind the times, and look like fools. Upper class twits.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Sex slavery don't just happen in Korea but also happen here in SEA.

Up to 200,000 women were abducted. All of this wouldn't be such a big deal if Japan had been more forthcoming about its past.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

@Chistopher Glen

You read my post. We are still waiting of a good hard historical evidence to back up your number 200,000. Please, no teasing here.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

nigelboy - you provide the following quote from the corpus of information provided by the Asian Women's Fund:

"...While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping..."

This personal testimony has been quoted often to support the position that there was no element of coercion in the comfort station system. Of course, there are other personal accounts that tell a different story.

Do you feel that the above quote represents the experience and treatment of the majority, if not all women working at the hundreds of comfort stations during the war (with, of course, a very few exceptions)? In not, it would really help me if you could give your opinion of who the ianfu were and what you think their status at the comfort stations was?

5 ( +9 / -4 )

We are still waiting of a good hard historical evidence to back up your number 200,000.

You will notice I said up to 200,000. Unfortunately most of the evidence was destroyed by the IJA which gives deniers like yourself the freedom to present your warped version of events. There is leeway with the exact number for that reason. What there is no leeway over is that mass sexual slavery took place

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Unfortunately most of the evidence was destroyed by the IJA

In other words, you hadn't actually seen the evidence. However, you wish it to be there so you hallucinate it as such and slander anybody who suggests different.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

So I guess the next step this current government will take is to say that the 90,000 people, including 12,000 pows, who were murdered, starved or denied medical assistance on the Burma railway, must have just gone on a hunger strike and then bashed themselves to death. ( and that is just one atrocity out of many ) Rape is..rape. there is no way anyone can justify it in any scenario. To all the deniers, I guess if you ever get raped, you will accept the perpetrators defence that he just needed some "comfort".

0 ( +6 / -5 )

I wonder if Abe and the whitewashing crew's cunning plan is, having shredded most of the paper evidence, just keep quiet until the last witness dies of old age and shout, "Never happened! It's just a conspiracy theory!"

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Japan has asked a major U.S. publisher to “correct” a school textbook that references World War II sex slaves, the foreign ministry said Thursday, as Tokyo’s bid to polish its history moves abroad.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

@nigelboy: You wrote the textbook article very clearly. But I can not find 'sex slavers" in that. So I am assuming that Gaimusho is the one who understand any mentioning of Ianfu is describing sex slave? Not the publisher?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Christpher Glen

You will notice I said up to 200,000. Unfortunately most of the evidence was destroyed by the IJA which gives deniers like yourself the freedom to present your warped version of events.

What a lame, weak, convenient logic! . I say evil IJA raped, murdered, tourtured UP TO 50 million innocent people. Proof? I don't have a proof but notice I said "up to."

But fine, even 100,000, please show us something solid. There should be at least a report made by the US military, paychecks and bank statements (right, those "slaves" were well-paid,) The proud anti-Japanese NYT lately admits that there is little evidence proving the forced requirement by Japanese military officials (12.02.2014). Note that the burden of proof is NOT on Japan.

Though I never deny that the army did burn up some crucial documents as the ending phase of losing warfare, the comfort women affairs/wartime prostitution were not even recognised as war crimes. Their documents were not even primary targets of being destroyed.

And I am not a denier (denying this statement without proper evidence makes you one, though) and anyone can see my past comments and all I want is a good, academic level of discussion (which means no quick-and-easy labeling you always do—"deniers," "right-wingers," "Netouyos," "Japanophiles," and etc., and yes open mind and good attitude to contribute you always don't seem to have) and historic records and archives to further educate us. By all means, I am open to new knowledge and quick to change my mind if what I see is convincing.

I try to post my comments related to historical events with hard, solid primary and secodary source. It's an academic honesty and the last thing I want is to judge anyone's opinion based on hearsay or my own agenda.

@Stewie

Your guess is probably wrong. And you know it. Japan and Burma have established a close relationship since 1954 and Japan has absolutely no reason to ruin it. Japan's apology and remorse has been accepted by them and Japan and Burma have been maintaining a good friendship, so please don't bother.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

NY rodayL Is that Japanese language written info, you write, part of info Suga found in the SDF library? Shga had heated shouting match with one of Diet member when he yelled he will get proof of existence of Ian-fu. You wrote the onw od oddixcial document, Too bad a majority of people do not understand what that says. But that is an official document during totalitalian military government,

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@toshiko

You mean Classified Order No.745 by Japanese Army entitled "Regarding Recruites of Female Workers at Military Comfort Houses" issued on March 4, 1938 reads:?

I don't know what Suga said but this document was actually discovered and presented as a proof of "Japanese goverment's involvement in Comfort Women" by Mr. Yoshimi Yoshiaki. Now Yoshimi's wording is misleading as it sounds the government was kidnapping those girls and it caused quite a sensation we all know. But as you can (or cannot) see in the document, it actually says "the government STEPPED IN TO PREVENT further kidnapping or other criminal acts that had been reported by the police."

Here are said kidnapping cases on a newspaper:

http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/o/b/roboukoishi/148830_3373035144898_67361652_n.jpg

1933.06.30 an article of 東亜日報. A young girl was abducted by Korean brokers and sold into prosutitution. 朝鮮総督府 (Governor-General of Korea) ordered Chosen police to arrest them.

http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/o/b/roboukoishi/563918_3373156147923_951656332_n.jpg

1939.08.31 an article of 東亜日報. Over 100 young girls were abducted by underground Korean brokers armed and attacked a village in Manchuria. Detectives were rushed to rescue those women from 釜山 (Busan.)

Whether Yoshimi's misinterpretation was intentional or not, he later changed his tone of voice regarding this document.

Too bad a majority of people do not understand what that says. But that is an official document during totalitalian military government,

What's bad is not their inability to understand the language but their attitude. Anything they don't want to see, they just close their eyes and do pathetic downvotes (even going back to my other posts in a different thread, hahaha! Just pathetic! But they couldn't downvote my Korean authors' post...they didn't read the post carefully—those Korean authors were the ones who busted victims inconsistant testimony—now go ahead, downvote now.)

You look at this thread, yet no one shows any hard proof to back up their claim but they shout they know the truth and I am the denier. I accept what's true. I don't deny Japan's past awful doings. How can I with so many evidence to show its horrible act? Sure it was war time but it doesn't justfy all. But she shoudn't be guilty of what she didn't do. Same goes any nations, any people. I like fairness. (Downvotes)

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This personal testimony has been quoted often to support the position that there was no element of coercion in the comfort station system. Of course, there are other personal accounts that tell a different story.

It's not a personal testimony. It's an exerpt from a report by U.S. Army right after the capture of a military unit. This is primary evidence.

nigelboy and others, you people should present your distorted and cherry picked 'evidences' to all the mainstream world historians who have extensively studied this case and who all agree they were sex slaves of Japanese imperial army. And ask them why they don't get with the program that Japan is attempting to push.

Hotmail,

Why don't you do it for these often quoted "all the mainstream world historians"? Many posters here are asking for these ' hard evidence' from the works of these historians but not a single poster has provided them. What work(s) convinced you?

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

When did this ever become a subject in History text books? I am curious to know what grade level that they are teaching kids about the sex slavery during World War II.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This article by a woman who grew up in Japan and immigrated before Grade 11 to Australia has a lot of interesting details. About 7 pages long. On one page she describes the textbook she used in high school, on another she quotes a teacher who took up the cause of anti-revisionism in Japan.

LOL on "Our system has been creating young people who get annoyed by all the complaints that China and South Korea make about war atrocities because they are not taught what they are complaining about", that's just what is going on.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

What Japanese history lessons leave out

By Mariko Oi

... There was one page on what is known as the Mukden incident, when Japanese soldiers blew up a railway in Manchuria in China in 1931.

There was one page on other events leading up to the Sino-Japanese war in 1937 - including one line, in a footnote, about the massacre that took place when Japanese forces invaded Nanjing - the Nanjing Massacre, or Rape of Nanjing.

There was another sentence on the Koreans and the Chinese who were brought to Japan as miners during the war, and one line, again in a footnote, on "comfort women" - a prostitution corps created by the Imperial Army of Japan.

There was also just one sentence on the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ...

... Former history teacher and scholar Tamaki Matsuoka holds Japan's education system responsible for a number of the country's foreign relations difficulties.

"Our system has been creating young people who get annoyed by all the complaints that China and South Korea make about war atrocities because they are not taught what they are complaining about," she said.

"It is very dangerous because some of them may resort to the internet to get more information and then they start believing the nationalists' views that Japan did nothing wrong."

I first saw her work, based on interviews with Japanese soldiers who invaded Nanjing, when I visited the museum in the city a few years ago.

"There were many testimonies by the victims but I thought we needed to hear from the soldiers," she says.

"It took me many years but I interviewed 250 of them. Many initially refused to talk, but eventually, they admitted to killing, stealing and raping." ...

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Vernie - They arent teaching it at all in Japan. In fact I worked in a university in Japan and none of the text boos we used had any mention of the transgression. I was told point blank that "Japan didnt do that." "It was all Chinese propaganda" - "The Nanjing massacre never happened."

This is not about when children are taught about the things japan did in the war, but whether or not Japan will tell the truth about the thousands of sex slaves to its own people.

Japan screams about the fact that a few of its people were kidnapped by the N. Koreans, but never do they stand up and take responsibility for the millions of people killed and totured in a very nazi like fashion. The USA may have interned Japanese in the USA, but the Japanese did far worse things to chinese, koreans, Philippinos, and lot s more throughout asia.

Time to start teaching the truth Japan. You only look more and more foolish to the world as you deny what EVERYONE knows as the truth. Stop lying already !!!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Unless they have some very special plan in head, the stupidity of these people is amazing. And they must be totally ignorant about american ways if they believe they have any chance to persuade McGraw Hill to change what everyone knows to be true in their books. What do they expect ? That the people of the world will start luing to please Japan, or that the ideas they are trying to impose against all evidence will become "historical facts" the Soviet way ? Apart from a few surviving criminals among the so-called doctors who vivisected prisonners, the people of today's Japan are not responsible for the crimes of the Hirohito gang more than seventy years ago. Neither is the Abe governement responsible for them. So why this ridiculous insistance ? In Europe, people are well aware of German atrocities in WW.II And they won't forget ! But they do not hold present day Germans responsible for them and they never use them as anti-German "weapons". German governements have once and for all recognised the facts and atoned for them. Apart from a few extreme right-wing of the neo-nazi type, nobody in Germany thinks of denying them and that allows for good relations between Germany and other European countries. No shadows of the past. The same could be true in Asia if only stupid Japanese revisionists didn't try to force people into some sort of Orwellian newspeak type of game. That was fiction guys, humans are not yet the fools you dream of. Forget it. ****

0 ( +5 / -5 )

nigelboy

You initially quoted the Asian Women's Fund's English page with the following quote:

"...While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping..."

When I mentioned that this is a personal testimony that stands in contrast with many other personal testimonies, you replied by saying:

It's not a personal testimony. It's an exerpt from a report by U.S. Army right after the capture of a military unit. This is primary evidence.

Or is it? Here is the full quote:

The records of a prisoner-of-war interrogation conducted by the US military include the claim that, at a comfort station run by a Korean manager in Myitkyina, Burma, the women were free to go on outings, participated in sports, and had picnics, giving the impression that the comfort woman had an elegant lifestyle. However, we might take into account the fact that these were testimonies before the US military interrogators.

http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-12.html

Sounds like a personal account to me, and yes, eyewitness accounts of victims are all considered primary sources. Of course people will lie or embellish, which I'm afraid to say you just seem to have done.

Here is the top paragraph from the same AWF page:

Women at comfort stations were forced to render sexual services to many officers and men, their human dignity trampled upon. According to various regulations, comfort stations were open for long time from 9:00. or 10:00 . to late evening. There were such regulations as that of Morikawa unit stationed in Huarongzen, regulating soldier time from 10:00 to 18:00, noncommissioned officer time from 19:00 to 21:00.

This seems to be a reasonable, if mild, assessment of life at comfort stations. It excludes the issue of how the women got there, but would that matter so much if they had all been well-treated and free to leave?

Again, I am confused about who you believe the comfort women were and how they were treated at comfort stations. Would you mind sharing your opinion with us?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@NY today: The Japanese language portion of your writing is the copy from same document in Japanese SDF library. It is dated 13th yeae of Showa. (1938)

@Eric Culmus Ask your students if they read monthly magazinesRekishi to jinbutsu, Shincho etc

students in Japan read many things more than text books. They don't rely on text book only.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Sounds like a personal account to me, and yes, eyewitness accounts of victims are all considered primary sources. Of course people will lie or embellish, which I'm afraid to say you just seem to have done.

Huh? It's a report based on interrogation of the captured unit and it's members including the comfort women at that time. Not some testimonies 50 years after the fact with politicized baggage already. For example, not a single testimony from the surviving Korean comfort women stated initially that they were abducted by the Japanese military.

This seems to be a reasonable, if mild, assessment of life at comfort stations. It excludes the issue of how the women got there, but would that matter so much if they had all been well-treated and free to leave?

I disagree for it overly exaggerates the hardships with play on words like "forced to render". It's a profession that was legal at that time and it still is in various parts of Europe.

Again, I am confused about who you believe the comfort women were and how they were treated at comfort stations. Would you mind sharing your opinion with us?

Private brothels attached or operated close to the military. It's an operation that exists even today. The most common in the recent past are local operators who recruit local women with no regulation to how these women were recruited or the labor conditions in which they were subjected to, attach closely to the newly occupied military. In regards to Japan comfort women system in general, the women were recruited by operators in their territories and were granted passage to the battle area overseas attaching themselves to a military unit or command area. Not even worth placing neither issues in textbooks,IMO.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Shame on you, Japan!**

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I'm Japanese. In Japan, all kiind of opinions had been shown for more than 20 years. Left winds, right wings, Korea-oriented people, Japanese nationalists, historians, journalists and comfort women themselves.

As the result, "Comfort Women" were just the prostitutes. They were not forced by Japanese organizations. There are many witnesses of many Korean comfort women themselves, officially recorded in the courts, shows that the were just the prostisutes, not forced by Japanese organizations.

So, most Japanese angry with dirty propagandas of Korean and Chinese. Did you foreigners really search the evidences or witnesses or records directly? I think you did not. You foreigners just see or hear only the indirect sensational articles.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

nigelboy

I disagree for it overly exaggerates the hardships with play on words like "forced to render". It's a profession that was legal at that time and it still is in various parts of Europe.

Okay, I understand why you disagree with the position taken by the AWF.

Private brothels attached or operated close to the military. It's an operation that exists even today. The most common in the recent past are local operators who recruit local women with no regulation to how these women were recruited or the labor conditions in which they were subjected to, attach closely to the newly occupied military. In regards to Japan comfort women system in general, the women were recruited by operators in their territories and were granted passage to the battle area overseas attaching themselves to a military unit or command area. Not even worth placing neither issues in textbooks,IMO.

Thank you for responding. I have a better feeling from where you are coming from. As a Canadian educated in an Asian studies department of a foreign university I can tell you that your understanding of this issue does not fall within the mainstream academic understanding, but you already know this.

More important than the worldwide consensus, which you or I are not going to change, seems to me to be the fact that you don't agree with the Asian Women's Fund, which received support (tacit if not financial) from the Japanese government. Your opinion is also at odds with the Kono Statement, which your government (if you are a Japanese citizen) officials supports. With this in mind, perhaps your energy is misspent trying to dialogue with a non-Japanese audience when we are mostly educated differently, and mostly familiar with the work of the AWF and the official position of the government of Japan. It is hard for people to avoid labeling you as a 'denier' or 'revisionist' when you clearly want the official position to be revised. Maybe your efforts should be directed towards changing this official narrative (perhaps they already are).

As a Canadian who has access to the many memoirs of POWs who went through the war, survived various deprivations (including slavery) and then felt the need to leave records of what they saw and experienced, the documentation and circumstantial evidence combined with accounts of comfort women (yes, they are often well after the fact) seem plausible. That was my only point. If one group of people could be reduced to slavery, why not another group? I realize that this logic does not prove that they were slaves, but, combined with the documents and testimonies that we do have it is enough for most in the global community. Again, I think this is also something that you are aware of.

Personally, I have always felt that a look at the government-ordered comfort stations for the U.S. occupation forces are a good place to start from and work backwards. The RAA (Recreation and Amusement Association) was judged to be problematic and to contain coercive elements and mistreatment of the women, which along with other reasons led SCAP to shut them down. How much worse must life have been for women shipped all throughout Asia? Coercion and prostitution seem to often be intertwined, officially-sanctioned or not. In the case of the comfort stations, they were officially sanctioned. This is probably the rosiest view of the system possible... the Dutch government, not to mention the governments of other Asian countries, do not take such a mild view, I'm afraid.

At any rate, I thank you for the dialogue.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I guess I should have been a little more specific. I was meant when did Sex Slavery become a subject in "US schools". This publisher is now putting this in US text books, and the article is not about Japanese History books. I am wondering what age of the students in the US who are talking about this subject, because it seems a little inappropriate to teach to young school kids. It certainly wasn't discussed when I was in school years ago.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

More important than the worldwide consensus, which you or I are not going to change, seems to me to be the fact that you don't agree with the Asian Women's Fund, which received support (tacit if not financial) from the Japanese government. Your opinion is also at odds with the Kono Statement, which your government (if you are a Japanese citizen) officials supports. With this in mind, perhaps your energy is misspent trying to dialogue with a non-Japanese audience when we are mostly educated differently, and mostly familiar with the work of the AWF and the official position of the government of Japan. It is hard for people to avoid labeling you as a 'denier' or 'revisionist' when you clearly want the official position to be revised. Maybe your efforts should be directed towards changing this official narrative (perhaps they already are).

My views are simply mine alone based on the evidence I read and I don't get suckered into the often repeated "mainstream historian"(whoever they are) views which are simply copy/pasted and recycled by western sources over and over. And the AWF view and the Japanese government view are not even to close what's stated in the two paragraphs in the MCGraw Hill textbook so it's only natural that the latter complained.

And let's be clear on the RAA. The primary reason it was closed is the self image U.S. had to maintain to the wives and girlfriends and the mothers back home (Susan Brownmiller). This policy still exist today which is a joke because if the servicemen overseas are forbidden from using such brothels, why on god's earth are the military doctors conducting periodic VD checks on the prostitute working at these brothels? Officially sanctioned or not. If you care about the rights of women under such profession, none of this matters. As Hashimoto said, the issue of exploitation of women should address all of them which includes the comfort women system incorporated by the Korean government to the U.S. Forces and the private brothels frequented by the soldiers all around the world.

For what it's worth, I thank you back for it's been a while since I had an intelligent dialogue with someone with an opposing view.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Did you foreigners really search the evidences or witnesses or records directly? I think you did not.

Did you? It was a Japanese historian who went to the Defence Agency Library and found a document written by the adjutants of the North China Army and Central China Expeditionary Army on March 4th 1938 that this is a passage from:

"Many agents should have required special attention. Some of them accentuated the name of the armies as much as they might hurt the credibility of the armies and cause misunderstanding among the public, others recruited women without control through war correspondents or entertainers, and others selected the wrong agents who took a kidnapping approach to recruit women so that the polices arrested them. In the future, the armies in the field should control recruiting and select the agencies circumspectly and properly, and should build up a closer connection with the local polices and the local military polices in the implementation of recruiting. Take special care not to have problems which have the potential to damage the armies' credibility or are not acceptable to social standards."

You foreigners just see or hear only the indirect sensational articles.

Really? Then I take it you're familiar with the document, have given its contents careful consideration and can comment on its veracity, as you're clearly sooooooooo much better informed than we are.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Simon-san, For example, do you know the witness of Kim Huk-sun (most noted korean comfort women) ?

In 1991 she said that, "at 14 years old she was sold by her parents with 40 yen to Keesen house (korean prostitution area) and 3 years later, her father-in-law took her into north China (under registration of Japan) to work". This witness was in Tokyo court.

And same Kin Huk-sun said that "Japanese police took her into north china" in the book published at 1992 April.

And same Kin Huk-sun said that "Father-in-law took her into north china by train but Japanese army captured her and sent into prostitution house" in the book published at 1993 October .

And same Kim Huk-sun said in 1997 August that "at 17 years old she was hunted by Japanese soldier and was forced to wrok in front of the battle field".

Her witness was changing and changing , and the official one in the court is that "SHE WAS SOLD BY HER PARENTS INTO KOREAN PROSTITUTION HOUSE" and any Japanese did not relational but just as a customer.

I can show you many many other Korean witnesses, but they are almost same. they are poor prostisutes but did not hunted by Japanese or forced by japanese. You can easily know the fact with reading or searching direct evidences or witnesses.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Vernie Jefferies: I guess I should have been a little more specific. I was meant when did Sex Slavery become a subject in "US schools".

30 years or so ago the schools gave 'The Sex Talk' in 9th grade, now I think it's 5th or 6th grade. Or maybe California's always been like that (early learners).

My kid didn't bring history text home these weekend so I can't say about when they introduce 'Comfort Women'.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Simon-san, For example, do you know the witness of Kim...

You needn't have bothered with the rest, I stopped reading after the first sentence. Of course I am aware of the testimonies of the Comfort Women and what deniers and revisionists like yourself have to say about them. Do you have anything to say about the documents found in the Defence Agency Library?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Simon-san It does not mean the man hunting or women were forced !

Why do you reject to know all the facts (they are the witnesses of Korean comfort womern themselves !) and only believe your prejudice, huh.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@aktakJAN. 18, 2015 - 12:36PM JST I'm Japanese. In Japan, all kiind of opinions had been shown for more than 20 years. Left winds, right wings, Korea-oriented people, Japanese nationalists, historians, journalists and comfort women themselves.

As the result, "Comfort Women" were just the prostitutes. They were not forced by Japanese organizations. There are many witnesses of many Korean comfort women themselves, officially recorded in the courts, shows that the were just the prostisutes, not forced by Japanese organizations.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

I'm Japanese. In Japan, all kiind of opinions had been shown for more than 7 0 years. Left winds, right wings, Korea-oriented people, Japanese nationalists, historians, journalists and comfort women themselves. (Freedom of Speech existed 70 years, not only 20 years)

As the result, "Comfort Women" were just SEX SLA VES. They were forced by Japanese organizations. There are many witnesses of many Korean comfort women themselves, they were NOT prostisutes, WERE t forced by Japanese organizations Nippon Seifu Gunji Shireibu and Kenpeitai Honbu. For useless Japanese girls, they had JoshiTeishinTai for girls who could not enter Girls Miiddle School and ASAS they finished 8th grade of elementary schools, they were drafted. We had to go to our classmates houses to encourage our classmates to enter middle school but in my time, Japan was defeated in 1945. So our age people did not have fate of Joshi Teishin Tai. Again Japan had magazines of opinions more than 20 years. ASA they could, publishers started to publish their magazines.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

simon-san Documents found in the Defence Agency Library ? Obviously it shows that there were ones gathering women by the way like kidnapping imitation in the traders, and there is an example which became police matter locally. U.S. soldiers in Okinawa often rapes Japanese girls , and U.S. Forces make official notice to prohibit that. Is this means U.S. planned the rape ? No. same on the matter of Japan.

Toshiko-san What is your purpose? It is obvious that you cannot make counterargument , and struggled to blame me with your unintellectual and nonsence way.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@taktak: If you are in Japan, go to local library to read between 1930's and 1940's newsapaper archives. You will find declaration of Japanese military that proudly explained how it created Ianfu system that is not prostitute. More advanced than prostitute system. My puroose to you is that Ianfu was created to be sex slave. Research before you concentrates on personal attack and writing something you don't know. Or visit JDSF library. there are documents that explains what kind of facilities are created in hot SE Asia, I haven;t write this before but find how doves contributed to frontline and Ianfu. Nihongo yomemasuka???

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Toshiko-san Ianfu system ? "Koushou-sei" system existed, that is legal prostitution system. ”Ianfu” is the word of euphemistic expression of the prostitute.

Can you explain which Japanese law defined "Ianfu-system" ? Yes, there were no such law. With WHAT, are you saying such "SYSTEM" existed? That is only your biased subjective, isn't it?

Can you read Japanese? Anatakoso Nihongo Yomemasuka?

You would better to study the basic about this matter , and study the history not the propaganda, and read the old japanese newspapers.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

simon-san Documents found in the Defence Agency Library ? Obviously it shows that there were ones gathering women by the way like kidnapping imitation in the traders...

Yes, you sort of lost me after that. The document shows that far from being the solitary actions of a few junior officers and ncos, the whole comfort women system was discussed, planned and authorised or at least condoned at a very senior level, just like the Japanese government created the "Recreation and Amusement and Association" in order to pimp out Japanese girls to g.i.s during the occupation. I'm sorry if you would prefer to go on believing that everything in Japan is perfect and that no Japanese people ever did anything wrong in WW2 ever, but there it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the officers at the top level even had vaguely good intentions, i.e. to prevent even worse things from happening, but it looks as if the men on the ground just carried on behaving in whatever degrading, perverted way they pleased. I daresay there were decent IJA men who tried their best to arrange the whole thing with a bit of decency, just like there were Nazis who weren't complete fiends. But as for the abuses that went on, look at how detainees in police custody or on death row in Japan get treated to this day, or the kind of brutal and dehumanising treatment that PoWs and IJA soldiers themselves got, or what happened to politicians the military didn't like such as Inukai Tsuyoshi. What makes you think foreign "comfort women" would get treated any better?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Simon-san Thank you for your replying. This is 2:00 AM in Japan, so I'm going to read your texts later.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@taktak; During WW II, Totalitalian Military Govt created many regulations. One of them is Ianfu and joshi teishintai. Military declaration in late 1930 was Wareware wa baishunfu yorimo motto kouka no aru Ianfu seisaku o tsukutta. Baishunfu dewa nai kara seibyo no osore wa nai.

military official explanation, Any library that has old newspaper arhive has above comment by Japanese Military officials. In essence, they are not prostitute, thus there is no sex desease fear.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"Why should Japan demonize it's own in their own country? FINE! "Why do countries like China and Korea keep looking at the past, instead of the future? FINE! But people should start asking, "Why is Japan now trying to spread their interpretation of history outside of their country now?" or "Why does Japan also keeping on looking at the past by constantly bringing up the revising of historical facts?"

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

No one country walks away from war with clean hands. Although the term "sex slaves" sounds bad, it was a thing of the past. Other countries have done worse, some didn't do as bad, they should just let it go. Every country has its own version of history anyway.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

NY Today

Hachikou presented an ad from newspaper at the time of event and a Japanese military official document to back up his point. Both are primary sources. Now, please, we are still waiting on your hard evidence to prove your point. Please note that an editorial or opinion of today's newspaper written without proper reference such as "many historians claim~" and "it is commonly accepted among scholars~" is not concidered as a proof

Dude, it's easy to post or present an article from a newspaper, however my question is HOW RELIABLE ARE THESE ARTICLES? Name me the newspaper and the writer of this article. You keep on saying it's from a PRIMARY source, but you don't name any of them, so name the paper and the writer! Anyone can make their own newspapers, stories or articles, but maybe these articles are biased and used to divert the people's attention. who are the writers? How are their reputation? Do these writers work for Japanese military or really reliable neutral writers? My evidence are the people I have talked and met back home, the old women who showed me real scars and told me stories that matched with other comfort women's stories from Korea and China. These women are not asking for money or anything, they don't know each other and they don't speak the same language. But how come their Stories are all synced. These people lived during those times. So I will believe their stories than some right winger's blogs on fc2!?. And if Japan has really reliable evidences claiming that comfort women are liars, why don't they challenge the world to prove the History wrong and clear their names? how come bloggers from FC2 are doing these for them?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Simon FostonJan. 19, 2015 - 01:44AM JST

It is no secret that Japan created ianfu system and it is by no means illegal per se.

Prostitution is legal, even today. Look at European countries. Some of the European states even issue permissions for prostitutes.

It seems you do not understand the nature of the debate. It is whether ianfu were prostitutes or sex slaves.

You quoted the document written by the adjutants of the North China Army and Central China Expeditionary Army on March 4th 1938. Do you understand that it is the evidence that ianfu system was NOT illegal, by prohibiting illegal means of recruiting prostitutes?

I am afraid your comments are pointless.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

It seems you do not understand the nature of the debate..

It seems that you cherry pick bits of people's posts, make insolent assumptions like this which fit in with what you would like to think and ignore the rest. So debating anything with you or commenting on anything you have to say is a waste of time.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Simon FostonJan. 19, 2015 - 11:22AM JST

It seems that you cherry pick bits of people's posts, make insolent assumptions like this which fit in with what you would like to think and ignore the rest. So debating anything with you or commenting on anything you have to say is a waste of time.

If you want to personally attack and insult other commenters here, you should be accountable. You cannot hit and run. When did I "cherry pick bits of people's posts, make insolent assumptions"?

Just look at the title of the article. "Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook"

It seems you do not understand the nature of the debate. It is whether ianfu were prostitutes or sex slaves.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

You would better to study the basic about this matter , and study the history not the propaganda, and read the old japanese newspapers.

You mean the ones circa 1931-1945 which were heavily censored (The defenders of Iwo Jima had no idea their fleet had been defeated and wouldn't be coming to their aid) No thanks, I'll stick to mainstream, unbiased historical research.

It seems you do not understand the nature of the debate. It is whether ianfu were prostitutes or sex slaves.

You must admit, the testimonial evidence is pretty much stacked against the revisionists on this one.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japan asks U.S. publisher to change 'sex slave' reference in textbook

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

nigelboy write articke of the textbook, I could not find Sex Slave words. Gaimushi officials wanted to delete anything related to Ianfu? It lools like SS is used by Gaimusho to refer article related to Ianfu stories. No wonder the Publisher is reluctant. SS words are used by Japanese officials, not on textbook. The publisher could be looking all over each page to find where SS words are printed.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Do you understand that it is the evidence that ianfu system was NOT illegal,

Further cherry-picking I'm afraid. Many of the posters here, including myself, have not denied that there were legitimate comfort women employed. However the vast majority - possibly up to 200,000 - were sex slaves - "recruited" from a variety of countries where the IJA held sway

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Japan is playing stupid game by reviving an issue that should be left to the history and by doing so it is giving its neighboring business competitor a political weapon in their fight for markets and money. When it comes to China, Korea and Taiwan all it matters is the Cash and they are using everything available to gain an upper hand.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Christopher GlenJan. 19, 2015 - 12:16PM JST

You must admit, the testimonial evidence is pretty much stacked against the revisionists on this one.

Testimonies must be consistent.

To my knowledge, two Korean former ianfu has so far testified before US congress. Both of them made written and oral testimonies, and the written versions are contradicting to their oral versions. Read the transcript here. http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf

Just google the name of any Korean former ianfu who has testified. You would always find different and conflicting versions of testimonies by the same person.

Christopher, which version of testimony by each of them should Japanese believe? By the way, this happens almost only to Korean former ianfu. The testimonies by Indonesians or Filipinas are much more consistent and trustworthy.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

To my knowledge, two Korean former ianfu has so far testified before US congress. Both of them made written and oral testimonies, and the written versions are contradicting

Cherry-picking again. 2 sex slaves are a mere speck in the ocean that was a huge case of human trafficking

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Name me the newspaper and the writer of this article

The image of recruitment ad Hachikou posted includes the name of the newspaper and the date published. If you want to see the original ad, either you go to a library in Japan to request a copy or do a quick Google search like, "recruit comfort women newspaper ad," which can show you a gallery of different ads published on different newspaper both in Japanese and Hangul. For example, 京城日報 1944.04.26 and 毎日新報 1944.10.27.

For newspaper ads I posted, I did include the name of the publisher and the date.

you don't name any of them so name the paper and the writer!

As I stated above, names are named and dates are dated. You need to chill out and actually read other people's posts before bashing. This is embarrassing. If you don't read Korean or Japanese in the original material, it's not our fault.

but maybe these articles are biased and used to divert the people's attention.

With this logic, we won't be able to use any of any materials of a wartime or in fact, any time as a historical evidence. Or are you saying Japan is the only country who would do a war time media control? What Hachikou presented is not an article, it is an recruitment ad. There's no bias that favors Japanese government in that ad since they did not find prostitution guilty of anything back then. It was legal at that time.

right winger's blogs on fc2

Google Image Search does not recognize whether a image belongs to a "right winger's blog" or not. Neither Hachikou nor I quoted the blogger's (what you think right-wingy) opinion to back up our theory. It happened to be that the search results of those newspaper included said blogger's site, however, it is available and shared all over the place and you can obtain hard copies if you want.

My evidence are the people I have talked and met back home

By all means, I don't deny or argue what you hear from them since I have no idea and I don't judge or label without some decent reason.

Publicly recorded testimonies, though, many of them I have to disagree. Not just the ones that include a description of "Jeep," "helicopter," and "Christmas break" but also Inconsistent stories. I named some Korean professors who studied victims' testimony in my past post. Prof. An Byeong-Jik, Prof. Chunghee Sarah Soh, Prof. Lee Yong-Hoon and Prof. Park Yun-Ha. If you label them as "Pro-Japanese" and choose not to read their works for a critical thinking, it's your choice.

And if Japan has really reliable evidences claiming that comfort women are liars, why don't they challenge the world to prove the History wrong and clear their names? how come bloggers from FC2 are doing these for them?

I don't have a good answer to it but if I have to guess, I think Japanese government is seeking for a most peaceful way to end this controversy after 70 years as coming to a mutual agreement seems impossible. On academic level, study groups between Japanese, Korean, and Chinese still continue to work on WW2 matters and Japanese government fully support them with funding. I don't know anything about FC2.

I don't post on JT to convince any regulars here. I just take it as a good opportunity to share what I learned and it is up to each reader to decide. Bystanders and passerbys, they can see the flow of discussion and pick and choose what they like. I am open to any ideas that convince me good (hard evidence prefered.)

I am done on this thread and going to enjoy my long weekend. Ciao ciao.
-2 ( +4 / -6 )

You need to chill out and actually read other people's posts before bashing. This is embarrassing. If you don't read Korean or Japanese in the original material, it's not our fault.

Perhaps.....but going by the fact the original material dating to the recruitment of "comfort women" dates to the 1931-1945 period when Japan was under military dictatorship I'm taking anything from that time with a huge pinch of salt. The testimony of thousands of sex slaves, with some backing from the soldiers who raped them - will do me just fine, thank you very much

0 ( +5 / -5 )

NYToday

The image of recruitment ad Hachikou posted includes the name of the newspaper and the date published. If you want to see the original ad, either you go to a library in Japan to request a copy or do a quick Google search like, "recruit comfort women newspaper ad," which can show you a gallery of different ads published on different newspaper both in Japanese and Hangul. For example, 京城日報 1944.04.26 and 毎日新報 1944.10.27.

Local Library IN JAPAN? Newspapers published by Japanese during 1944??? hmmmm.... don't you think or suspect that these are a little bit biased? sometimes you don't need hard evidence to analyze things, try common sense???

I don't have a good answer to it but if I have to guess,

Don't know the answer? try, because they are Guilty and knows that they cannot defend thmselves to clean their names because they know the whole truth?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Don't know the answer? try, because they are Guilty and knows that they cannot defend thmselves to clean their names because they know the whole truth?

If that's the only answer you will accept, why do you ask the question?

To be honest, I do not understand the fundamentalist intensity of your (and your friends') conviction. Summarizing the evidence alluded and linked to in this thread as a cross section of what's available, in essence, the in-period documents from Japanese and even non-Japanese suggest that at least no one really was thinking of the situation at that time as large-scale sex slavery. You can find isolated incidents, but that's the not the same thing at all and it seems they are by no means government sanctioned.

And the only thing you have to put up is the "testimony" of a bunch of women popping up 50+ years after the alleged offense. Do remember if they win in the right courts, they might receive a substantial cash prize for their efforts. Some of the "best" ones were selected to go to the US Congress, where they blew their own covers. Really, with 50 years to prepare, one would expect a perfect delivery of the most blatant lie, and yet these women can't even do that. Why do you trust them so unconditionally?

That you do is your choice, but why are you so intolerant of anyone who chooses to be more balanced in their trust of different sources?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

noypikantokuJan. 19, 2015 - 03:36PM JST

You seem to have no idea of what you are criticizing.

The ad was published in Kyeong Seong Ilbo on July 26, 1944.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jvd4VYISqpE/UpYpFHdMyVI/AAAAAAAAAC4/Jx0sLSazAks/s1600/AdToRecruitComfortWomen.jpg

Comfort Women Wanted, Urgent

Age: 17 or older, upto around 23

Work Place: Unit in rear area, Comfort Station

Monthly Pay: 300 yen or more, Advance upto 3000 yen available

Contact in person from 8 am to 10 pm

Imai Work Agency

Phone: 4-1613

Do you have any reason to question the ad?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Do you have any reason to question the ad?

Not personally, as I'm fortunate enough not to have suffered the attentions of 5-100 IJA soldiers a day. However the surviving sex slaves probably will, and that's enough for me

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Let us get back to above article. Japanese officials of Ministry of Foreign requested nott ro use Sex Slave reference M Hill's textbooks. They are the ones who defined writings of Ianfu during /ww II is Sex Slave. They did not ask to delete writings about Comfort Women, Many of them studied in USA before they joined Gaimushio So we can not say their poor English. /sex Slave must be the description of Ianfu in Japanese Govt.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I read an article in NY Times last year about what "Germany can teach Japan." It said "Reconciliation takes bravery as well as generosity and one must truly want it... without the real desire Japan’s path to “normality" with those who suffered from aggression will remain indefinitely blocked." Personally I think Japan has a lot to learn from Germany on how they rebuilt there relations and regained respect from Jewish People and the State of Israel.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I don't agree with Japanese revisionism, but I looked up the textbook, and it was published in 1999. 1999!!!! That's 16 years ago. The second edition was published in 2003, which is 12 years ago. The Japanese government wants to fix this book now? After 16 years sitting of sitting on their hands?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

FernGullyJan. 20, 2015 - 08:48AM JST

The second edition was published in 2003, which is 12 years ago.

And 5th eddition was published in 2010.

http://www.amazon.com/Traditions-amp-Encounters-Global-Perspective/dp/0073385646

One should read "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" by Allied Translator and Interpriter Section, Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers issued on November 15, 1945 to find who re-wrote the history.

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf Read from page 191 backward to page 176.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Just once, just one time, I would like to hear a Japanese person, be it in the media, on TV or a stranger express some kind compassion towards these young women 'sex salves'. Will it ever happen?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

igloobuyerJan. 20, 2015 - 10:54AM JST

Will it ever happen?

It did. http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement.html

See also Letter from Prime Minister to the Former Comfort Women http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement-12.html

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

CH3CHO: "It did"

He said "kind compassion", not fake BS which politicians then turn around and try and rescind or 'revise in the name of patriotism'.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

CH3CHO - I am thoroughly confused. You use the Kono statement (etc) as proof of Japanese compassion, yet you say that the things they apologise for are lies? It's like saying 'We are sorry, so now those things never happened"

1 ( +4 / -3 )

They did not ask to delete writings about Comfort Women

Well I fail to see the relevance of your comment, as the majority of the women concerned were sex slaves. This is just Japan's education ministry sticking its head in the sand again and shouting "la la la, we can't hear anything".

It did

Yes, and then Abe and Hashimoto have gone and messed things up by denying it happened.

Personally I think Japan has a lot to learn from Germany on how they rebuilt there relations and regained respect from Jewish People and the State of Israel.

I couldn't agree more

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

CH3CHO - I am thoroughly confused. You use the Kono statement (etc) as proof of Japanese compassion, yet you say that the things they apologise for are lies? It's like saying 'We are sorry, so now those things never happened"

Back to square one.

Kono statement nor the Japanese government did not apologize on the allegation of such textbook exerpts

"The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers".

<www.mofa.go.jp/files/000042171.pdf>

"...Meanwhile on the Japanese side, even after the announcement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Kato, the relevant ministries and agencies continuously investigated related documents and additionally conducted search and investigation of documents in the United States National Archives and Records Administration and in other locations. With these documents that were obtained in this way as a basis, it also began to analyze hearings of military-related parties and those responsible for managing the comfort stations, as well as testimonies collected by the Korean Council, and was able to practically finish compiling the report on the study results. The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.”

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

justbcuzisayJan. 20, 2015 - 12:32PM JST

CH3CHO - I am thoroughly confused. You use the Kono statement (etc) as proof of Japanese compassion, yet you say that the things they apologise for are lies?

Japanese government appologized for the prostitution, though legal at the time, from ethical stand point.

Kono Statement

The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments.

In short, pimps did it. The responsibility of the government is limited to the oversight of the recruiters. Japanese government did instruct them not to use illegal means. The instruction is recorded in the archives. Kono statement does not say anything about illegalities in the recruitment process by the military.

There are people who get stimulated by the word "sex slave" to dream a day dream. But a day dream is a day dream and you cannot re-write history.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Japanese government did instruct them not to use illegal means.

That worked out really well didn't it? Instructions that may or may not have been issued from Tokyo would seem to have been carried out differently by IJA forces thousands of kilometres from home.

The instruction is recorded in the archives

Really? Please show us some mainstream material supporting your conjecture.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

this issue will hardly be resolved as deniers will never try to raise the voice of their victims but instead their own. as CH3CH0 mentioned, prostitution was legal at the time, yeah, very legal to take advantage of innocent, defenseless people. keep trying to justify the very falsehood of wwii horrid crimes.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

So who's giving me any single evidence on abducted "200,000" women?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

bamboo pink, is that how u try to put your foot in the shoes of the victims? by demanding more, not less? how much more information u need. can't u hear their cries, listen to their stories? those stories ask for nothing more than simple and warm friendship, love, remorse, true compassion. isn't that enough to ask for?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

soukaJan. 20, 2015 - 03:10PM JST

as CH3CH0 mentioned, prostitution was legal at the time, yeah, very legal to take advantage of innocent, defenseless people. keep trying to justify the very falsehood of wwii horrid crimes.

You take it wrong. I am not interested in "justifying" what Japan did. I am posting here because I am against re-writing of history, one way or the other.

Just read the "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" by Allied Translator and Interpriter Section, Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers issued on November 15, 1945. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0051_5.pdf Read from page 191 backward to page 176.

I think the report very credible because it was written by US Army right after the war.

Now, we have inconsistent testimonies by Korean former ianfu, which generally contradict the US Army report and which have no physical or documentary support but words only. And we have assertions by those whom the Western media call "revisionists" which match what is written in the US Army report.

Who do you think is re-writing the history?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

When description is not accurate, there must always be room for adjustment or revision. If you deny this, it's the end of history as an academic study. With backed up evidences, we re talking about the textbook's references which might be wrong, not trying to play with the pathetic women.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@the above comments,

i have no further comments, as we are only humans, not numbers or textbooks. we have feelings, that can be one of the best places to start off with. i appreciate and understand your views btw.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

So who's giving me any single evidence on abducted "200,000" women?

I've heard that the number first mentioned by North Korea. Then SK started using it

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Just read the "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" by Allied Translator and Interpriter Section,

This seems to be another right-wing site. I don't take that material seriously.

Now, we have inconsistent testimonies by Korean former ianfu,

Ah, you mean sex slaves. Any inconsistency doesn't change the fact that up to 200,000 woman were sexually enslaved. It's not like the women rang each other up to corroborate their stories, is it?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

CH3CHOJAN. 20, 2015 - 11:16AM JST igloobuyerJan. 20, 2015 - 10:54AM JST Will it ever happen? It did. http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement.html See also Letter from Prime Minister to the Former Comfort Women http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement-12.html

I meant not from authorities, an expression of compassion from an average Japanese person or media person; like you perhaps?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I meant not from authorities, an expression of compassion from an average Japanese person or media person; like you perhaps?

One may live in hope

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Nigelboy -

Back to square one. Kono statement nor the Japanese government did not apologize on the allegation of such textbook exerpts "The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers".

That seems to be a different textbook than this article is about? The excerpt you posted previously about the textbook is question seems to be very similar in content to the the Kono statement, but my point was about not understanding CH3CHO's intentions.

@CH3CHO-

Japanese government appologized for the prostitution, though legal at the time, from ethical stand point.

How can you cherry pick facts like that? The Kono statement is CLEARLY about the mistreatment of the women, no matter what they were called.

From the Kono statement:

The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments

Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I've heard that the number first mentioned by North Korea. Then SK started using it

This number was also mentioned by the Japanese historian who did the most thorough research into the topic. Yoshimi Yoshiaki estimates that between 45000 and 200000 women were concerned.

While it obviously is difficult to make definite statements in regard to exact numbers and the details of how the women were coerced, there is absolutely no doubt about the fact that a large number of women were forced into this system of comfort stations in one or another way.

For the sake of supporting a war of aggression the Japanese military did directly engage in actions that led to many women being enslaved, as they were not there on their own free will and couldn't simply walk away from the horrors they had to endure.

All of the serious documents linked here make it clear:

the Japanese military perfectly organized and maintained a system in which pimps and shady "business men" of different nationality enslaved a large number of women and is therefor ultimately responsible for the crimes committed in relation to this unprecedented case of state sanctioned violence against women during war action.

That this was all well regulated and perfectly organized was not to protect women's rights, but to protect the military bureaucracy and the morale and health of the troops.

Whether we're talking about 2000, 20000 or 200000 is a question of dimension, but an injustice system remains an injustice system.

Posters like CH3CHO or nigelboy meticulously go into details and seem concerned with "truth" about what happened, but what they actually do is obliterating responsibility for violence against women and smudging the victims once again.

While from a historian point of view it is understandable that the details are researched, it is counterproductive and unethical to feed a public discussion about the details and to engage in arguments about the exact wording, unless you want to invalidate the whole argument.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

justbcuz, you don't live Japan long enough. Kono statement was made becuase of SK's strong demand. SK promised to stop demanding apology and compensation if Mr. Kono made statements in the way SK wanted. So it was his political decision, nothing to do with history. But SK broke the promise and intensified Japan bashing. Abe said he won't withdraw Kono statement to avoid trouble. Isn't it enough?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

justbcuz, you don't live Japan long enough.

Presumptions like that are rude.

But SK broke the promise and intensified Japan bashing.

Because various influential and important nationalists, right-wingers and historical revisionists have continually said there were no such crimes committed and that the statement should be re-worded or revoked, all the while provoking or antagonising people in other countries in a variety of other ways, e.g. Yasukuni visits and denials of other war crimes. Honestly, if you don't know that it makes me wonder how long you have lived in Japan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@igloobuyerJAN. 20, 2015 - 10:54AM JST Just once, just one time, I would like to hear a Japanese person, be it in the media, on TV or a stranger express some kind compassion towards these young women 'sex salves'. Will it ever happen?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

????? ou must bed thinking everybidy is not Jaoanes, even we use broken English and Japanized English.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

That seems to be a different textbook than this article is about? The excerpt you posted previously about the textbook is question seems to be very similar in content to the the Kono statement, but my point was about not understanding CH3CHO's intentions.

Yes. Quite different. "The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.” was the official finding of the Japanese government even after the issuance of Kono Statement.

to the McGraw Hill textbook version of

"The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers".

You can't get any more of a contradiction than that.

So who are these "mainstream historians" with their studies and papers with supporting evidence which I've been requesting for but nobody has yet to present them even after 250+ posts?

Posters like CH3CHO or nigelboy meticulously go into details and seem concerned with "truth" about what happened, but what they actually do is obliterating responsibility for violence against women and smudging the victims once again.

I do. If the issue is about violence against women, it's utterly absurd to simply narrow them to the issue of Japanese 'comfort women'.

As I stated previously, this is in essence, the existence private brothels attached or operated close to the military. It's an operation that exists even today. The most common in the recent past are local operators who recruit local women with, in most cases, no regulation to how these women were recruited or the labor conditions in which they were subjected to, attach closely to the newly occupied military. In regards to Japan comfort women system in general, the women were recruited by operators in their territories and were granted passage to the battle area overseas attaching themselves to a military unit or command area where the operations were regulated by the Japanese military. In regards to Korea, the 'comfort women' system continued where it was not only state sanctioned but the government themselves took part in the direct recruitment, set up locations, and subsquently isolated those who were no longer serviceable.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

As long as no one found 'Sex Slave" words in M Hill text books, I have to believe Japanese Gaimusho and even Govt officials are the ones who refer Ianfu as Sex Slave.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

justbcuz, you don't live Japan long enough. Kono statement was made becuase of SK's strong demand. SK promised to stop demanding apology and compensation if Mr. Kono made statements in the way SK wanted. So it was his political decision, nothing to do with history. But SK broke the promise and intensified Japan bashing. Abe said he won't withdraw Kono statement to avoid trouble. Isn't it enough?

No, because it is very hard to understand your logic. You are saying the Kono statement is a lie, but South Korea should be happy because it exists. But it's a lie. Can you understand this is insincere? I have lived in Japan plenty long enough.

The original post I replied to was when a poster asked if Japanese are sincerely sorry for this, and CH3CHO posted the Kono statement, etc, as proof of regret. If you are against the contents of the Kono statement, then do not use it as defense.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

justbcuzisayJan. 20, 2015 - 08:49PM JST

How can you cherry pick facts like that? The Kono statement is CLEARLY about the mistreatment of the women, no matter what they were called.

You seem to conveniently misunderstand Kono statement beyond what it means. http://www.awf.or.jp/e6/statement.html

Kono Statement

The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited (by the pimps) against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments (though it is not mentioned if it was against their will or if coaxing or coersion was used in the latter case).

Undeniably, this, (namely prostitution,) was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

Can you give any other interpretation than this?

Hence, in short, Japanese government appologized for the prostitution, though legal at the time, from ethical stand point.

bam_booJan. 20, 2015 - 09:48PM JST

Posters like CH3CHO or nigelboy meticulously go into details and seem concerned with "truth" about what happened,

Yes I am concerned about the truth for, otherwise, history would be re-written by organized pressure groups. The only way to fight against revisionism is to show the evidence.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

tinawatanabeJAN. 21, 2015 - 12:16AM JST

Abe said he won't withdraw Kono statement to avoid trouble. Isn't it enough?

Standing by the Kono Statement because it actually reflects how he genuinely feels might help, not just to "avoid trouble," might help.

nigelboyJAN. 21, 2015 - 06:11AM JST

...the official finding of the Japanese government...

Yes, I don't think we need to read the rest of your post to guess what that was.

Would you believe "official findings" of the British or American governments if they said that there were no war crimes committed by the Allies in WW2?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Can you give any other interpretation than this? Hence, in short, Japanese government appologized for the prostitution, though legal at the time, from ethical stand point.

Yes, the issue is how they became 'prostitutes' (against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc) and how they were treated (physical and psychological wounds), you are trying to dismiss this by using the label 'prostitutes' Prostitution was legal at that time, but the 'ethics' being apologised for is the recruitment methods and the treatment, not the act of paying women for sex.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

justbcuzisay

You're reaching, first we don't know how each and every individual had ended up in the business with want ads all over and since it was legal we can safely assume that women that were already in the business would have happily applied. Second the agents who hired some may had been shady but all had to speak fluent Korean to negotiate with the family in the rural area not able to speak Japanese so we again can safely assume they were mainly Koreans since Japanese certainly did not learn to speak the language.

As for the military forcefully abducting is completely absurd and had been shot down twenty times over.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Simon FostonJan. 21, 2015 - 09:48AM JST

nigelboyJAN. 21, 2015 - 06:11AM JST

...the official finding of the Japanese government...

Yes, I don't think we need to read the rest of your post to guess what that was.

Would you believe "official findings" of the British or American governments if they said that there were no war crimes committed by the Allies in WW2?

Oh, by the same token, you would not believe in the testimonies of former ianfu or any research by feminist groups because they have vested interest. Of course, you would not read some of the news media that are "biased." That leaves you the media of your pick.

But if you select information by who reported it rather than what is reported, you risk narrowing your view.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

well, the world is already prepared to embrace and forgive japan with open arms for what was done back then, but somehow seems more like japan is still not yet ready as it still busy figuring out what the numbers are, correcting wordings, whether they happen or not, and so forth.

perhaps they will be tired one day and get to realise it is better to give up than to ruin or put to risk the relationships they still have (with foreign and close neighbors) to their own and to everyones' benefits.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

soukaJan. 21, 2015 - 12:42PM JST

well, the world is already prepared to embrace and forgive japan with open arms for what was done back then

You mean "world" excluding Korea? As President Pak said, It has no intention to forgive Japan for the next 1000 years at least.

Why ianfu issue is hard to solve is well written in 제국의 위안부-식민지지배와 기억의 투쟁 Inafu of the Empire - Colonial Rule and Battle of Memories by Korean professor Pak Yu Ha published in 2013.

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/11/30/2014113000439.html

The book was also translated into Japanese last year.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%B8%9D%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AE%E6%85%B0%E5%AE%89%E5%A9%A6-%E6%A4%8D%E6%B0%91%E5%9C%B0%E6%94%AF%E9%85%8D%E3%81%A8%E8%A8%98%E6%86%B6%E3%81%AE%E9%97%98%E3%81%84-%E6%9C%B4-%E8%A3%95%E6%B2%B3/dp/product-description/4022511737/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=465392&s=books

The book raises several reasons, and one of them is re-creation of memories by Koreans. For example, Korean high schools, the professor says, use fiction novels on ianfu as facts to create false memory in students mind. There are many ianfu movies which are fictional that creates false memory to movie goers. As a result of re-created memories, solving ianfu problem is almost impossible.

It is a good read.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

CH3CH0

i think i understand. however, maybe buying into optimism rather than negative feelings/fears against another (in this case another country), who knows that might help. this understandably is not solvable overnight but, tiny efforts worth it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

nigelboyJAN. 21, 2015 - 06:11AM JST

I do. If the issue is about violence against women, it's utterly absurd to simply narrow them to the issue of Japanese 'comfort women'.

There is plenty of violence agains women we could talk about, but this is a thread about the violence against women as a result of the Japanese comfort women system, thats why it's narrowed down.

CH3CHOJAN. 21, 2015 - 09:42AM JST

Yes I am concerned about the truth for, otherwise, history would be re-written by organized pressure groups. The only way to fight against revisionism is to show the evidence.

No you're not interested in the truth, but in your version of truth. The problem is not the evidence you present us here, but your selection and evaluation of the evidence.

But even the one-sided evidence you present makes it very clear:

The Japanese military created, organized and meticulously maintained a system that led to widespread abuse and violence against women.

The violation of human rights the Japanese military was directly involved in include: abducting women, human trafficking, rape, forcing women into prostitution and enslaving them.

But what you and other posters here try to make us believe is that the Japanese military, who clearly is the solitary responsible for the system, was not directly responsible for the all crimes committed in the name of the system.

Of course the Japanese military left the dirty work to shady middlemen and local pimps where ever it could, but this doesn't make it less responsible for what happened in its name. (Still, there are enough crimes on record that were committed directly by the Japanese military)

The obvious distortions by nationalistic propaganda in Korea and China do not change the above responsibility. To point out that there is propaganda involved is OK, but people who use reference to such propaganda in a public discussion to lessen the responsibility on the side of the Japanese military engage in distortion of history and become henchman of right-wing uyoku denial and revisionism.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Given the Asahi Shinbun's retraction of the originating stories involving the whole comfort women controversy, I think asking for the removal of "sex slaves" from texts is not out of line. Yes there were comfort women, but the picture in people's minds of women shackled to bedposts or forced to comply at bayonet-point needs to be corrected.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Fadamor: Yes there were comfort women, but the picture in people's minds of women shackled to bedposts or forced to comply at bayonet-point needs to be corrected.

Except that there were accounts of those, too.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Japanese_Military%27s_%22Comfort_Women%22_System

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/asahi-apologizes-for-erroneous-fukushima-comfort-women-reports#comment_1849213

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/asahi-apologizes-for-erroneous-fukushima-comfort-women-reports#comment_1848658

http://fightforjustice.info/?page_id=3132&lang=en

http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/oralhistory-00.html

... to Zaoqiang. There she was forced to be a comfort woman for the Japanese military. ... we took ride on a train. It stopped for two hours at Shanhaiguan at which point myself and Yoshiko attempted to escape. But the exits were blocked by military police. ... When we got off the train at Tianjin, fully armed soldiers were waiting for us with a truck, a coach and a jeep. ... How did I feel? I felt as if we were taken here to be killed. I could not but weep. No one talked. All were weeping. That night we slept there and in the morning we were put in those rooms. Soldiers came to my room, but I resisted with all my might. The first soldier wasn't drunk and when he tried to rip my clothes off, I shouted "No!" and he left. The second soldier was drunk. He waved a knife at me and threatened to kill me if I didn't do what he said. But I didn't care if I died, and in the end he stabbed me. ... He was taken away by the military police ... I was treated in the infirmary for twenty days. ... In the comfort station in Shijiazhuang: When the soldiers came back from the battlefields, as many as 20 men would come to my room from early morning. ...

... They rounded up little girls still in school. ... The soldiers made Chinese laborers lay straw in the trenches and the girls were put in there. There was no bedding... When someone died the girls got scared and began to cry. Then everyone in the trenches was poisoned and they closed up the trench. They dug another trench next to it.

Testimony II Maria Rosa Henson (Philippines) ... In April 1943 she was arrested by Japanese at a check point in the suburbs of Angeles and taken to the garrison. There she was forced to be a comfort woman. She spent the next nine months of her life in this way. ... At times, we would be brought to some quarters or houses of the Japanese. I remembered the Pamintuan Historical House. We were brought there several times. You cannot say no as they will definitely kill you. During the mornings, you have a guard. You are free to roam around the garrison, but you cannot get out. ...

Testimony III A Taiwanese victim: ... I was helping my father's business at home. One day, the Japanese police called and told me to come because they had a job for me. They said that I would be preparing meals and mending torn clothes for the soldiers. ... So I went to work. I saw many Japanese soldiers. ... We got up in the morning, washed our faces and cooked breakfast to feed the soldiers. We washed their clothes and mended torn clothes. Then, at night, we were called and confined to a room. ...it was a terrible job. I was only weeping. ... I wished to flee away, but I did not know the way. Soldiers were standing at the gates. If you fled, you would be shot. ...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

There is plenty of violence agains women we could talk about, but this is a thread about the violence against women as a result of the Japanese comfort women system, thats why it's narrowed down.

Actually, there isn't for it's only the Japanese government who had addressed this issue while the others that are mentioned are from a standpoint of comparison, completely ignored.

The degree to how much women and to what degree they system employed by the Japanese government can be debated for centuries and we'll never come to an understanding but the point here is that the government at that time did not condone such coercive methods used by middle men nor the violence which happened in some cases.

But to state that the evidence gathered by the AWF (which took almost a decade) and the review process which lead to the issuance of Kono statement is that of the McGraw Hill textbook narrative is false. This, in of itself, is the 'revision' of history that what people like you denounce against.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The degree to how much women and to what degree they system employed by the Japanese government can be debated for centuries

Reading your sentence I don't really get want you want to say, but no we don't need to debate for centuries as we have come to a clear understanding of the basic facts already.

the point here is that the government at that time did not condone such coercive methods used by middle men nor the violence which happened in some cases.

Except for Japanese uyoku right-wingers everybody agrees that the Japanese military has violated human rights.

There's plenty of evidence that stands against your really far-fetched claim. Even the AWF homepage, not exactly an independent source, features plenty of evidence and testimonies that corroborate this.

the McGraw Hill textbook narrative is false

I don't know the exact wording of the McGraw Hill textbook, but the term "sex slave" is agreed on by the international scientific community and except for right-wing Japan hardly anybody tries to deny that women were enslaved in the comfort stations, so I think it would be wise of the Japanese government not to instigate trouble as it only leeds to more bad press internationally.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

i already see the worse of humanity, in the past, at WW2, women at this very moment used as propaganda to strength their allies and their soldier, each country use their or others country women to comfort their soldier also other people soldier, every country doing the same as what other country do, they sell their women to win. of course, a lot of you will not admit this yet at the same time, you pressure other to accept their country are the bad one and you country more superior coz you are the police. shame on you people.

we have to accept that when war happen, every country that involve included the loser and the winner, they all are the responsible party for unleashing those monster into this world, they all are willing to do anything to win for their cause.

so, suck it up, we all responsible and we have to avoided the third from happening.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I have been disappointed at McGraw-Hill. Why they can not detect Chinese and Korean government's lie?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

but the picture in people's minds of women shackled to bedposts or forced to comply at bayonet-point needs to be corrected.

No it doesn't, because the amount of sex slaves who testified to this kind of treatment is overwhelming. That's what is called strong "testimonial evidence".

Why they can not detect Chinese and Korean government's lie?

Because the lies from the Japanese government are clear for all to see. No-one needs to look anywhere else

0 ( +2 / -2 )

bam_booJan. 21, 2015 - 09:09PM JST

No you're not interested in the truth, but in your version of truth. The problem is not the evidence you present us here, but your selection and evaluation of the evidence.

My view is basically the same as US Army report "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" dated November 15, 1945. How is your version of truth differ from the report and why? As Christopher Glen repeatedly admits, they cannot give any documentary or physical evidence to explain the difference from the US Army report.

Who are the "main stream" historians? Can you name any of them? Western media keep reporting "historians estimate", "historians say" without giving any proper credit to any of them. Actually, the media is just parroting what the pressure group tells them to write.

Muhammad Uqbah Ahmad TermiziJan. 22, 2015 - 11:13AM JST

so, suc it up, we all responsible and we have to avoided the third from happening.

Good point.

20 years ago, Japanese used low key attitude toward Korean propaganda, because of sense of guilt toward ianfu. But the result was that the number inflated to 200,000, that the age went down to 12 or 13 years old, that the English name changed from comfort women to sex slaves, and that the life of ianfu changed more miserable every year. What we saw was re-writing of history, due to lack of effective counter argument.

The choice is bad publicity or worse publicity. Bad is still better.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Who are the "main stream" historians? Can you name any of them? Western media keep reporting "historians estimate", "historians say" without giving any proper credit to any of them. Actually, the media is just parroting what the pressure group tells them to write.

To be fair, I suspect this to actually be accurate, in the same sense that "mainstream Americans" will also have the same opinion. History is divided into many specialties, and to be a real expert on ianfu would be a real subspecialty requiring knowledge of Japanese, Korean and if you want those in other countries still more languages. So the pool of historians that can are sorely limited, and the ones that do are a fraction of this.

So, the "mainstream historian" doesn't really do much more research than a "mainstream layman". A much maligned netouyo who does his homework likely has more primary source ammo than the Western "mainstream historian".

And it is much safer for them to express the "pro-feminist' position on this matter. Only that since they are historians, their words have weight.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

some comments thought this issue is somehow in favor of China or Korea.

No, it is not. This issue is not about China, Korea, Japan or any other country, this is about humanity.

I am not from those countries either, yet still think that every country should be involved if need be to discuss and agree on the terms, etc., not one country saying and others to listen and just agree at once.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

To be fair, I suspect this to actually be accurate, in the same sense that "mainstream Americans" will also have the same opinion.

To be fair I suspect this to actually be inaccurate.

and to be a real expert on ianfu

Ah, you mean sex slaves. Gotcha.

So the pool of historians that can are sorely limited, and the ones that do are a fraction of this.

Thank the IJA for destroying their records at the end of the war http://www.japanfocus.org/-Tessa-Morris_Suzuki/2373

So the overwhelming testimonial evidence from surviving sex slaves will have to do

0 ( +3 / -3 )

One thing about the Ianfu for sure is that there couldn't have been 200,000 Koreans for sure since even with the most conservative figures the break down of Japanese prostitutes was said to be 10% and according to HR of the Defense Ministry(陸軍省人事局) there were no more than 400 Iafujo or brothels meaning either they were super big with 500 prostitutes at each which is very unlikely or the numbers had been inflated to unimaginable scales.

On another note if you check the news of that time there were numerous reports that the Police in Korea had caught numerous unlawful human trafficers abducting female through out the 1930's so the JP police were enforcing the law.

EX; http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9C%9D%E9%AE%AE%E5%8D%97%E9%83%A8%E9%80%A3%E7%B6%9A%E5%B0%91%E5%A5%B3%E8%AA%98%E6%8B%90%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

One thing about the Ianfu for sure is that there couldn't have been 200,000 Koreans

About the sex slaves for sure is that there couldn't have been 200,000 Koreans. Guess what? You're absolutely right.........because the sex slaves originated from China, Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan, (in some cases Japan and legitimate "comfort women") and of course Korea

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I guess you can't do the math. LoL

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

CH3CHO JAN. 22, 2015 - 01:01PM JST

My view is basically the same as US Army report "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" dated November 15, 1945.

So your view is in line with a report that was conducted just 2 and a half month after the Japanese surrender?

Quite ridiculous position to dismiss 70 years of profound research by historians and several 100 testimonials by victims.

How is your version of truth differ from the report and why?

Who are the "main stream" historians? Can you name any of them?

I'm basically in line with what Yoshimi Yoshiaki says, who is the most prolific and credible "main stream" historian on the comfort women issue in Japan. He has a profound knowledge of first hand documents and is also very capable at critically questioning any evidence.

The choice is bad publicity or worse publicity. Bad is still better.

There is one more choice: to let injustice be injustice, be clear and accommodating to the victims and don't bother too much about the details.

Just like the Germans did, who never tried to counter existing inconsistencies of the victims testimonials, because they knew they did something wrong in the first place and valued reconciliation higher then trying to look better on some of the details.

Kazuaki Shimazaki JAN. 22, 2015 - 02:20PM JST

A much maligned netouyo who does his homework likely has more primary source ammo than the Western "mainstream historian".

This speaks volumes about your ideas on history, Shimazaki san. Good that you are so honest anyway.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Quite ridiculous position to dismiss 70 years of profound research by historians and several 100 testimonials by victims.

Well, let me nitpick. Historians didn't conduct "70 years of profound research". The very first time this comfort women issue came to light is 1983 when Seiji Yoshida wrote a book about ianfu-gari, and Asahi-Shinbun and Japanese sayoku(left-wings) started lying about it. Untill then, comfort women were considered just as prostitute even in Korea and korean govt never brought it to the table. So technically, it's 30 years of reseach. And I don't know the exact number of testimonies and how many of them are supported with reliable source. But I know that there are certain amounts of early testiomonies(mainly from koreans) in 80s and 90s. that they were sold by their parents, not abducted by japanese soldiers. And as the issue got attention and became political, they changed their testimonies quite differently that they were gang-raped and abducted. We shouldn't believe unconditionally the ianfu's testimonies are always truth. Should be more skeptical.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Japan is correct. The "Comfort Women" from Korea were NOT "Sex Slaves". This differs from Indonesia and the Philippines where some actually were "Sex Slaves" and the perpetrators tried and convicted. American textbooks should not be supporting a hoax, one which runs counter to the US Army's own findings during WWII.

"There is no evidence to support that Japanese military permitted Korean prostitution brokers to lie or use violence when recruiting Korean women or operating comfort stations. Any coercion, violence or confinement was exercised by Korean brokers against the rules. So if one wants to use the term "sex slaves" to describe former Korean comfort women, they were sex slaves of Korean brokers who owned and operated comfort stations. They were not sex slaves of Japanese military. Japanese military personnel visited comfort stations only as customers. As for dozens of Dutch and Filipino women who were coerced by Japanese soldiers in the battlefields, sex slaves of Japanese military is an appropriate expression."

http://scholarsinenglish.blogspot.com/

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Japanese denials still continue to this very day, but there are no shortage of pro-Japan supporters who think they've apologised enough and people should move on..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There's plenty of evidence that stands against your really far-fetched claim. Even the AWF homepage, not exactly an independent source, features plenty of evidence and testimonies that corroborate this.

There isn't. That's why I'm requesting them. So I'm now asking you directly. What 'mainstream historians' works with supporting evidences convinced you to take your current position?

I don't know the exact wording of the McGraw Hill textbook, but the term "sex slave" is agreed on by the international scientific community and except for right-wing Japan hardly anybody tries to deny that women were enslaved in the comfort stations, so I think it would be wise of the Japanese government not to instigate trouble as it only leeds to more bad press internationally.

I posted the EXACT passage of the McGraw Hill textbook @ Jan. 17, 2015 - 04:21AM JST and it's not the term the Japanese government is complaining about but the content/wording describing the comfort women. I'm simply amazed that you are backing McGraw Hill despite not even reading the two paragraphs.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Glen

Thank the IJA for destroying their records at the end of the war http://www.japanfocus.org/-Tessa-Morris_Suzuki/2373 So the overwhelming testimonial evidence from surviving sex slaves will have to do

I'll say this again: In other words, you have nothing in the way of documents, and you just wish the evidence to be in those documents you didn't get to see. As for the "sex slaves" testimonials, for one thing their total numbers are limited in comparison to 200,000. For another thing, there are potential incentives (read: money). So if you want to believe them, go ahead, but don't be treating it as some sort of absolute argument.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I've heard of no babies born of comfot women and J soldiers, I've heard of no parents complaining about their daughters being kidnapped or working as comfort women.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

tinawatanabeJAN. 23, 2015 - 09:51AM JST I've heard of no babies born of comfot women and J soldiers, I've heard of no parents complaining about their daughters being kidnapped or working as comfort women.

That's probably because you've never asked or searched. Instead of trying to avoid blame, Japanese need to grow a heart.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

bam_boo

Then you also accept Yoshimi's opinion that there are no documents that prove that the Japanese military forcefully abducted women in Korea and Taiwan, stating that the crime the then Japanese government committed was transportation of unwilling people to overseas. Which is a very flimsy accusal of wrong doing since the agents were the ones that submitted the paper for transportation and the military only rubber stamped them.

朝鮮や台湾において軍が奴隷狩りのような強制連行をしたという資料がないことは認めており、自身もそのような主張をしたことはないと述べている。そして「狭義の強制」がないことを唱えて「日本政府に責任なし」という意見は、「国外移送目的略奪罪」に該当するケースだけを罪としているのだと主張している。

He also announces that he found a document from the Japanese military as proof of the then Japanese government's involvement of forced abduction. The document is states;

「軍慰安所従業婦等募集に関する件」(昭和13年3月4日、陸軍省兵務局兵務課起案、北支那方面軍及び中支那派遣軍参謀長宛)というもので、内容は「内地においてこれの従業婦等を募集するに当り、ことさらに軍部諒解などの名儀を利用しために軍の威信を傷つけかつ一般民の誤解を招くおそれある」から「憲兵および警察当局との連繋を密にし軍の威信保持上ならびに社会問題上遺漏なきよう配慮相成たく」

The content only states, "There are concerns in usage of the military's name in recruitment of comfort women stating that it is authorized by the military resulting to misunderstanding to the public and hurt the name of the military. Therefore act with dignity working with the MP and the local police authority so not to disturb the society."

The only way I can read this is don't let the agents you work with miss represent themselves and contact the authority if you suspect any wrong doing so not to hurt the prestige of the military.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

OssanAmericaJAN. 23, 2015 - 04:37AM JST Japan is correct. The "Comfort Women" from Korea were NOT "Sex Slaves". This differs from Indonesia and the Philippines where some actually were "Sex Slaves" and the perpetrators tried and convicted. American textbooks should not be supporting a hoax, one which runs counter to the US Army's own findings during WWII.

You and others are simply arguing semantics; okay, maybe the term is wrong, maybe there were 50,000 women not 200,000, it's hardly the most important thing. Everyone in the world knows that Japan was brutal and cruel to millions of people during the war and committed various crimes against humanity on a daily basis that went unrecognized to this day.

Come on let's accept that and accept that Japan needs to show more remorse and be more apologetic than trying to argue numbers and semantic detail. Show a little compassion Japan and show you really are a mature and responsible member of the international community.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

igloobuyer

No need since most of the nations involved accepted the SF peace treaty and the ones that didn't signed individual peace treaties with Japan. You normally don't ask for seconds for what had been signed and sealed in the international community.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@igloobuyer: Very well put. And the San francisco peace treaty had nada to do with the sex slaves

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yoshimi's definition of sex slave;

その女性の前に労働者、専門職、自営業など自由な職業選択の道が開かれているとすれば、慰安婦となる道を選ぶ女性がいるはずはないからである。たとえ本人が、自由意思でその道を選んだようにみえるときでも、実は、植民地支配、貧困、失業など何らかの強制の結果なのだ。(『従軍慰安婦』p.103)

Basically he says that by merely placing recruitment ads for Ianfu is an act of enslavement since it robs the female to seek other jobs of choice even if the person had applied free of will due to other social consideration. (P 103 Jugunianfu)

He is a flake.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

And your point is what exactly? Further cherry-picking. Up to 200,000 women were coerced, end of story

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

bam_booJan. 22, 2015 - 11:35PM JST

CH3CHO JAN. 22, 2015 - 01:01PM JST

My view is basically the same as US Army report "Research Report: Amenities in the Japanese Armed Forces" dated November 15, 1945.

So your view is in line with a report that was conducted just 2 and a half month after the Japanese surrender? Quite ridiculous position to dismiss 70 years of profound research by historians and several 100 testimonials by victims.

I understand your sympathy with the victims, but you have to be objective when evaluating the evidence in the study of history. Fresh evidence and fresh reports are generally better than testimonies that were started to be collected 40 years after the incident. Right after the war, the Allies were preparing for the war crime trial and most talented intelligence officers were preparing the report.

The testimonies by Korean former ianfu are generally of bad quality, because important elements change every time they testify. Just google and compare. If you have not, read testimonies by Yong Soo Lee and Koon Ja Kim before US Congress. http://archives.republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/33317.pdf Their written testimonies contradict oral testimonies. You cannot dismiss them just 2 out of 100, because they were the best witnesses the supporting group could send. In addition, if Koreans were abducted, why there were no records kept by the left behind families, such as letters and diaries?

From objective standpoint, I think the US Army report is more accurate than late "testimonies."

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I'll say this again: In other words, you have nothing in the way of documents, and you just wish the evidence to be in those documents you didn't get to see.

I'll say this again: In other words, you have nothing in the may of mainstream evidence, and you just wish that all this testimonial evidence was not available in plain sight for the world to see. The reason it wasn't available immediately after the war was because of what these women endured: repeated rape. That they did come forward many years later shows true courage. They deserve the sympathy and respect of the world, not ridicule and cherry-picking

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Basically he says that by merely placing recruitment ads for Ianfu is an act of enslavement since it robs the female to seek other jobs of choice even if the person had applied free of will due to other social consideration. (P 103 Jugunianfu)

According to his definition, almost all of prostitute in the world today are coerced by the results of social consideration. It's awful.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

200,000 or 50,000, it does matter, no matter what is the number, the issue that also we need to pointed out, how today everything that we say in the past is illegal are legal nowadays.

People still can sell human for comfort by following the law, signed up few contract or don't, but, the business itself still legal, no matter which country. Unless, that kind premises itself is illegal on that country but all the country we mentioned above hold in the name of freedom and democracy. Are actually allowing their people to sell their self.

For me, i don't have anything against it, this is their choice maybe this is also what people in the past did, they choose. It does not mean the person itself, maybe, it can be their guardians, or their own government. Maybe, the concept of choice are differ from the past. How we value stuff today are might differ in the past.

We does not live in the past, we are alive in this present, this is what matters. The war already over. The new generation does not care. What we need to do now, stop bickering and start doing something to avoid more wars. If by changing the term used can at least subdue the heat then alt east we should do that.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We does not live in the past, we are alive in this present, this is what matters.

Normally I would agree - if every time a Japanese politician offered an apology for wartime wrongdoing another politician didn't come along and deny everything. With that in mind, this quote springs to mind: "A generation which ignores history has no past: and no future. " Robert Heinlein

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In other words, you have nothing in the may of mainstream evidence, and you just wish that all this testimonial evidence was not available in plain sight for the world to see. The reason it wasn't available immediately after the war was because of what these women endured:

I find it enormously amusing that you don't consider contemporary documents "mainstream evidence", but uncritically accept the woman's testimony (produced 50 yeas after the alleged offense) as such.

repeated rape. That they did come forward many years later shows true courage. They deserve the sympathy and respect of the world, not ridicule and cherry-picking.

The fact you are making an excuse (a rather standard tactic) for them shows that you know that your opposition has a legitimate point regarding the enormous delay between the alleged offense and the allegations themselves (and also the lack of detail and known contradictions). I don't wish to deny you your right to give them the benefit of the doubt on this, but I find it enormously intolerant for you to not accept that not accepting this excuse is at least equally legitimate.

By the way, I'll argue it takes less true courage to make such an allegation after the 90s. Typically, society doesn't fully apply the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard when it comes to sexual assault allegations (and I'm lumping this one in as such). This is at least partially due to the assumption that it is horribly humiliating for the women involved to speak up, so we can reasonably believe it won't be "worth it" for them to make the allegation unless it is at least the perceived truth.

Can you honestly say the current environment is one where this holds true for our comfort women. You certainly seem to be holding them up to be a hero, a good thing to have spoken up, and you aren't the only one. However, now that the shame is gone or greatly attenuated, the assumption no longer applies, and we should hold them to the normal standards of evidence.

@igloobuyer

Everyone in the world knows that Japan was brutal and cruel to millions of people during the war and committed various crimes against humanity on a daily basis that went unrecognized to this day.

Here, you revert to the last fallback of your side. When it becomes undeniable your side doesn't have nearly the solidity of evidence to justify such a harsh stance, instead of conceding the point with grace, you fall back onto generalities.

The idea of not "cherry-picking" was tried in the 90s. The Koreans used the opportunity to push and revise upwarrds. So now the Japanese are saying "Wait a minute ... am I hallucinating or are you taking advantage of my willingness to concede there was some wrongdoing on my part? I used to give you free passes but from here on you have to actually deploy evidence."

The Chinese and Koreans bought the current hardening of Japanese attitudes onto themselves.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I find it enormously amusing that you don't consider contemporary documents "mainstream evidence" No I don't, due to wartime censorship laws. http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/essay1.html Thus I find uncensored, (more) honest mainstream material to be reliable.

You certainly seem to be holding them up to be a hero, a good thing to have spoken up, and you aren't the only one. However, now that the shame is gone or greatly attenuated, the assumption no longer applies, and we should hold them to the normal standards of evidence.

Heroes? No, but victims of one of the grossest acts of human trafficking in history, certainly. Normal standards? How about overwhelming testimony? Not just women from Korea, but other countries as well, saying the same thing. One can surmise they didn't all ring each other up over the phone for tea. So their testimony - backed up by that of former IJA soldiers who raped them - does give their case considerable credibility.

The Chinese and Koreans bought the current hardening of Japanese attitudes onto themselves.

Nope, the Japanese government did that by obstinately refusing to take historical responsibility

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki

The idea of not "cherry-picking" was tried in the 90s. The Koreans used the opportunity to push and revise upwarrds. So now the Japanese are saying "Wait a minute ... am I hallucinating or are you taking advantage of my willingness to concede there was some wrongdoing on my part? I used to give you free passes but from here on you have to actually deploy evidence."

you can hardly complain after four years of brutal terror across the Asian/Pacific region now can you. Do you really think Japan has the right to ask for a soft landing after conducting one of the most inhumane reins of terror in the modern era?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

igloobuyerJan. 23, 2015 - 04:09PM JST

you can hardly complain after four years of brutal terror across the Asian/Pacific region now can you. Do you really think Japan has the right to ask for a soft landing after conducting one of the most inhumane reins of terror in the modern era?

Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY.

My point exactly. I completely agree, yet this is what Abe is trying to do regarding Japan's aggression towards its neighbours, Unit 731, and of course the sex slaves

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"A generation which ignores history has no past: and no future. " Robert Heinlein

The same thing can be said of every country that involved in WW2 in any way. Japan and Germany are very likely to be condemned for their deeds because they lost. But the Allies have been avoided from being criticized in despite of their cruelty during the past war. And now the Allies, for example Russia, the US, China, the UK, France been involving in many conflicts with their forces all over the world while the Axis ,Japan and Germany, have been peaceful for 70 years. We have learned from the past. What about the Allies. Are they thinking they are privilleged to act like a bully in the international commyunity since they won. Maybe.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The same thing can be said of every country that involved in WW2 in any way. Japan and Germany are very likely to be condemned for their deeds because they lost. But the Allies have been avoided from being criticized in despite of their cruelty during the past war.

Oh no, you can't claim that - the allies did commit some crimes against humanity but no way were they on the same level of barbarity and cruelty as those of Germany and Japan (yes, I know the atomic bombings was a horrific act but it was very unusual circumstances etc.).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CH3CHOJAN. 23, 2015 - 04:43PM JST igloobuyerJan. 23, 2015 - 04:09PM JST you can hardly complain after four years of brutal terror across the Asian/Pacific region now can you. Do you really think Japan has the right to ask for a soft landing after conducting one of the most inhumane reins of terror in the modern era? Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY.

I sense the hand of a Japanese writer here; how on earth does igloobuyer exhibit 'hate' in what he writes? In western culture just because you criticise another it does NOT mean you 'hate' that person, on the contrary it can often mean you love that person and what to help them.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY.

Hey 2ch CO3, you'd have more credibility if you don't take Japan's side 100.00% of the time in all arguments..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Glen

Thus I find uncensored, (more) honest mainstream material to be reliable.

Dumb move, Glen. If you want to say Japan censors its news, that actually puts the Japanese authorities even firmly on the side that they are against sex slavery. When government controlled media writes up something bad (and of course the State's efforts to stop it), it means the State is actively communicating a Cease-and-Desist on the issue. In this way it may be an even more powerful statement than that from a free press.

Heroes

You were the one who suggested they are courageous to speak up.

One can surmise they didn't all ring each other up over the phone for tea. So their testimony - backed up by that of former IJA soldiers who raped them - does give their case considerable credibility.

There were so few of the latter that the prime candidate is apparently a whole Lieutenant who ran a very small scale local operation for his own boys, and even that only after their daddies tried to attack the local occupation forces. It does show that such things do happen, but since you want it to be systemic and government orchestrated, this ain't even close - even a suggestion of the opposite. If, for example, there was an orchestrated operation ongoing, said Lieutenant would have said he acted under orders of Major Y to grab the women of the Resistance. But he doesn't.

They don't have to ring each other for tea. They just need to see each other in the news or read about it in a book. Once the first "pioneers" have tested the waters and found it positive, I'll file my own claim (real or not) ASAP too. The more cases come through within a relatively short period, the less scrutiny each one will receive and the more they will be aided by a heuristic of "Surely, with so many complainers, at least some of them would be genuine."

Nevertheless, there are quite a few of them, but to prove 200,000 with them ... now that's a long shot...

@CH3CHO

Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY.

More importantly, regardless of what views you have on history, History should not be politicized to the point where the Opposing View cannot get in. This is especially true if the "dominant side" is held mostly by the thin thread of testimonials from 50 years after the alleged offense.

If you have confidence in your side, this is actually detrimental, because those not already in the choir will see and recognize that the Opposing View will never get a fair hearing in this environment. They would thus not see the lack of the Opposing Side as proof of the strength of your argument.

I'm thus forced to conclude the pro-side is either very dumb, not at all interested in converting the holdouts, or know their position is more hot-air than solids.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

letsberealisticJAN. 23, 2015 - 06:32PM JST CH3CHOJAN. 23, 2015 - 04:43PM JST igloobuyerJan. 23, 2015 - 04:09PM JST you can hardly complain after four years of brutal terror across the Asian/Pacific region now can you. Do you really think Japan has the right to ask for a soft landing after conducting one of the most inhumane reins of terror in the modern era? Regardless what hate you might have against Japan, YOU CANNOT RE-WRITE HISTORY. I sense the hand of a Japanese writer here; how on earth does igloobuyer exhibit 'hate' in what he writes? In western culture just because you criticise another it does NOT mean you 'hate' that person, on the contrary it can often mean you love that person and what to help the

Thanks igloo, I do indeed love Japan - I spend 20 years of my life there, my lovely wife is Japanese - all I want is for Japan to show a little more maturity, understanding and compassion so it can become a more respected member of the international community - I don't want my kids growing up being ashamed of their mother's country.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I believe by now most people here agree that the Japanese military, with the help of middlemen, created, organized and maintained the comfort station system in order to keep its fighting force in "good spirits".

We also seem to agree that the Japanese military directly coerced women and enslaved them in many well documented cases in various Asian nations.

What we seem do disagree on is the numbers and the special case of Korea (and may be Taiwan?).

So if we know about the frequent violation of human rights by the Japanese military here and there, why should it be different in the case of Korea?

The answer is very simple:

...because Korea was not a place of direct warfare.

...and because Korea had practically been a Japanese colony from 1905 and Japan had already established a draconian system of repression, fear, brain washing and a network of collaborators, so it didn't even need to engage directly in dirty business.

About the lack of "documents" from the Japanese army, of course the culprit will not intentionally create documents that prove its own obvious crimes, and what we are talking about here was a crime even then as the "bright minds" in the Japanese military knew very well.

Historians, much like detectives, always have to read between the lines of official documents and interpret the findings.

History is not about exact wording in old documents (except maybe for fundamentalist islam and christian theology ;), but about critical evaluation, of documents, of the context and of a number of factors. Only by combining different information can we create a overall image of what might have happened and that's exactly what Yoshimi is very capable of doing.

In any case we should not forget that the cause of all this discussion here was a belligerent and inhumane Japanese militarism completely indifferent to massive human suffering.

Without Japans aggressive war campaign there would have been no comfort stations and no need to discuss the details of more or less enslavement of women as a result.

So I really wonder why some people here are so anxious about making this inhumane system look a bit better here and there.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

igloobuyerJan. 23, 2015 - 07:51PM JST

I do indeed love Japan - I spend 20 years of my life there, my lovely wife is Japanese - all I want is for Japan to show a little more maturity, understanding and compassion

That strategy did not work last time. Koreans took advantage of the "understanding" and began re-writing the history, while Japan hesitated to make counter arguments. Commiting a crime is one thing, accusing him of another crime he did not commit is quite another.

bam_booJan. 23, 2015 - 08:14PM JST

why should it be different in the case of Korea?

There are other reasons.

Korean professor Pak Yu Ha, the author of 제국의 위안부-식민지지배와 기억의 투쟁 "Inafu of the Empire - Colonial Rule and Battle of Memories" published in 2013, interviewed many Korean former ianfu and found a lot of them said that they became ianfu out of patriatism to the Empire. Read her book for detail.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

bam_boo

So basically your argument is based totally on your own assumption like Ueno Chikako which states history is basically written by the victors but Japan isn't the victor and there are ample amount of documents to prove other wise like the news clips I had posted showing that the Japanese police authority in Korea actively apprehended human traffickers.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

SamuraiBlue JAN. 23, 2015 - 09:05PM JST

So basically your argument is based totally on your own assumption

No, my argument is based on numberless documents, testimonials, circumstantial evidence and critical evaluation of history by historians who are definitely brighter then me.

history is basically written by the victors

In this case luckily so because if Japan had won the war history would have looked like a racist, ruthless, inhuman, non-democratic Japanese militarism wanted to have it look like.

news clips I had posted showing that the Japanese police authority in Korea actively apprehended human traffickers

In regard to the middlemen who engaged in trafficking and enslaving the women in the comfort stations all over Asia, apparently non was prosecuted during the war. They were all collaborators with the Japanese military and during the war the Japanese side apparently didn't care whether the women they "employed" were there legally and voluntarily or not.

Besides all the articles mentioned are from a time when the comfort system was not yet developed in its most extreme form and before most of the violations of human rights actually happened.

CH3CHO JAN. 23, 2015 - 08:46PM JST

Korean professor Pak Yu Ha,

I believe you are talking about Prof. Park Yu-ha?

Park Yu-ha also believes that Korea was not a colony of Japan and except for a few clearly right-wing Japanese scholars I don't know of any historian with that kind of extreme interpretation of the history of Japanese Korean relations.

Not that I want to dismiss all of her claims, as she has a point in regard to Korean nationalism distorting certain facts, but her position is the result of her personal obviously quite radical interpretation of a complex set of information.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

bam_boo

You mean Yoshimi Yoshiaki and his flaky definition of "Sex Slave" with his so called document of proof?

Yeah read and see how much gravity it has as "Evidence". LoL

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Some people seem to have dedicated their lives to denying the existence of sexual slavery in the Japanese Imperial Army.. beggars belief really.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Sexual slavery as what Yoshimi Yoshiaki?

Well tell that to the SK government since they had completely dismissed any and all appeal to the court against the government from the "sexual slaves" that had been hired to accompany and a please the US military till today.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

SamuraiBlue JAN. 23, 2015 - 10:19PM JST

As I have shown above it is very easy to cast doubt on any single piece of evidence that you link here to "proof" the Japanese military's "innocence" as we are dealing with information that can conveniently be interpreted in one or another way.

That's what history studies is all about, to put together many small pieces to create a bigger picture.

If you only look at some of the pieces (e.g. "official Japanese documents") that fit your view you might well get to the conclusion of many Uyoku hate speakers:

that the Japanese military was on humanitarian mission to save Asia (and all this renitent Asians just didn't get it).

Does anybody here believe that?

And what is "flaky" about Yoshimi Yoshiaki's definition of "Sex Slave"? Would you like to create your own definition that is more accommodating to Japanese military history?

Yoshimi is not pointing to any single document, but his view is based on a comprehensive review and critical interpretation of the hell of a lot of information. If you want to cast doubt on his position it's not enough to link some Japanese wikipedia pages or right-winger blogs in a JT thread.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sexual slavery as what Yoshimi Yoshiaki?

That would be: duped into being a prostitute, then held against your will, forced to serve 50-100 clients a day, then beaten if you refused to comply. That sound about right?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

bam_boo

We also seem to agree that the Japanese military directly coerced women and enslaved them in many well documented cases in various Asian nations.

How should I put this?

Speak for yourself.

To conduct a mass scale enforcement of women through coersion and forceful tactics by the Japanese military,requires at that time, in an age of no e-mails or internet, at least a written imperial order (much like the mandatory draft) where such documents are dispersed to various local governments and agencies throughout the occupied area of Japan at that time. You simply cannot destroy every single one of them. Completely unrealistic.

In addition, we have various documented incidents of police aprehending those brokers and middlemen who attempted to forcefully abduct girls and women. (links already given above by couple posters). We also have the Japanese Army shut down brothel house and court martial the one who was responsible when they found out such forceful recruitment was taking place (Semarang).

I don't think anyone here is stating that some unfortunate incidents did happen. But to claim that the Japanese government and the Japanese military at that time condoned these unfortunate incidents is simply ridiculous.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I don't want my kids growing up being ashamed of their mother's country.

I too have the same hope.

Koreans took advantage of the "understanding" and began re-writing the history

Nope, it's what Japan's education ministry has been doing of late. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

that actually puts the Japanese authorities even firmly on the side that they are against sex slavery

Nope, or you wouldn't get these kinds of statements about the sex slaves http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/130519/hashimoto-denies-comfort-women-were-sex-slaves http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Never mind the time it would take to serve 50-100 'customers' a 24hr day.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Supporting mainstream links for your stats please. Oh and while I'm here http://listverse.com/2014/02/11/10-types-of-prostitutes-in-history/ https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/gawking-at-rape-culture Sex slaves were on call 24/7. They were not voluntary prostitutes - well most of them anyway. This is one situation where Japan should make proper amends

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

http://www.luzinde.com/database/mili_army.html

Which was compiled through open data stored at the national archive.

By the way if you do the math, if 200,000 prostitutes takes 50~100 solider a night that means 20,000,000 IJA soliders are on liberty leave which is usually 15~30 % of the entire force making the entire IJA force at 133,333,333 which is more then the total Japanese population of that time. LoL

1 ( +3 / -2 )

By the way if you do the math, if 200,000 prostitutes takes 50~100 solider a night

If you do the math, IJA personnel "serviced" these women at all hours. Perhaps some of them took a break and went back a couple of hours later, thus counted as "2". Put yourselves in the shoes of these women. If you endured what they endured, you wouldn't quibble about numbers

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Ah, so your position is you are unable to empathise with the victims of one of history's worst cases of human trafficking, one iota? Great, your position is clear for everyone

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

By the way if you do the math, if 200,000 prostitutes takes 50~100 solider a night that means 20,000,000 IJA soliders are on liberty leave which is usually 15~30 % of the entire force making the entire IJA force at 133,333,333 which is more then the total Japanese population of that time. LoL

So you are trying to say that 200,000 prostitutes were all acquired at once, and all 'worked' the entire duration of the war, and all were released at the same time?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan did not have enough food even for J soldiers, and most of them starved to death. Japan simple could not afford 200,000 comfort women.

I read a Korean said that if his daughter were kidnapped, he wouldn't sit still, and it is impossible that 200,000 daughters were kidnapped and none of those parents said anything.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan did not have enough food even for J soldiers, and most of them starved to death. Japan simple could not afford 200,000 comfort women.

So you are also saying that every comfort woman was acquired at the same time, and worked the entire duration of the war, and all were let go at the same time?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well if they were as some people say had no liberty to move out and also most of the battle lines were cut off by the enemy subs and war ships by start of 1943 then at that time the so called 200,000 would be at the Ianjo at the same time. Basically the Ianfu had no liberty to leave after paying debt calling them slaves completely warps any acceptable scenario.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So you are saying they were all acquired at once, and used for the entire duration of the war. Gotcha.

You may be ok at math, but it seems you are missing out on logic.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No if they can't leave then it means the accumulated number will reach the maximum 200,000 at 1943 when transportation is cut off even if they were recruited through the duration of the war. It's either they had freedom to leave after paying their debt, the total number is 1/100 of the said 200,000, or the 50~100 clients a night is a complete sham.

So which is it?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So you are saying that they kept every sex slave they ever got until the very end of the war? That girl #1 was still there on the last day of the war?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

That is what people are implying when saying they were SLAVES, not me.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Koreans should produce records that parents of those 200,000 were demanding for daughters return.

I don't remember Koreans said those were "kidnapped" before, I think it's quite new addition.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

That is what people are implying when saying they were SLAVES, not me.

Ok, then you agree that not all the sex slaves would have been kept for the entire duration of the war.

I'm not sure how you think that makes them any less of slaves though. If they were not allowed to leave, and they were forced to have sex, then they were sex slaves. If they were released at some point, that doesn't suddenly make them not sex slaves.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I'm not sure how you think that makes them any less of slaves though. If they were not allowed to leave, and they were forced to have sex, then they were sex slaves. If they were released at some point, that doesn't suddenly make them not sex slaves.

Exactly

Basically the Ianfu had no liberty to leave after paying debt calling them slaves completely warps any acceptable scenario.

There is no other word to call them, except for sex slaves, as up to 200,000 women, except for a small minority perhaps, didn't just volunteer to serve IJA personnel

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Readers, you are going around in circles. From here on, any repetitive posts will be removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

nigelboy JAN. 24, 2015 - 08:20AM JST

How should I put this?

Just as it is well documented on the AWF website archive.

To conduct a mass scale enforcement of women through coersion and forceful tactics by the Japanese military

Yoshimi does not state that there was "mass scale" coercion directly by the Japanese military, but that it created a system in which

... large numbers of women were forced in one or another way (by middlemen and by the IJA) to become comfort women

... and that mostly those women were not free to quit the work when they wanted to (sex slave)

There are so many pieces of evidence from diverse sources that except for Japanese right-wingers nobody is asking for a "smoking gun" document from the IJA itself.

From 1943 on, when the war was getting out of bounds, there are enough well documented cases (see AWF) where the Japanese army did coerce directly, but this was of course not a formal order from the Imperial General Headquarters (IGHQ). The order from the IGHQ was just to "provide enough comfort women" to "satisfy" (sorry for this cynical wording, but that's what it was about) the demands of the troops in order to reduce the frequent raping sprees, the occurrence of venereal diseases and to keep up the fighting strength.

On the outside the military did try to make it look like it would respect international treaties, but the fact is that the IGHQ didn't care much about violations of human rights and only acted in very rare cases when international attention was feared (Semarang). The often used Japanese expression "anmoku no ryoukai" refers to this kind of unspoken agreements that are still very common in any from of Japanese administration.

And even for the many cases that seem as if women participated voluntarily we know that in the Japanese occupied territory (including Korea) the situation was so desperate that women chose to become prostitutes to escape starvation or maltreatment in IJA internment facilities.

What Yoshimi and most other independent historians say is that the Imperial Japanese Army is ultimately responsible for the violation of human rights in relation to the system of comfort women it created.

This is partly for direct violations, but more so for not being able to create a system in which it was possible to prevent frequent violations in the name of the system it had created.

Is this form of liability so difficult to apprehend?

Thinking about the comfort women issue we should never forget, that the IJA was on a terrifying war rage to subjugate Asian nations and when under pressure didn't care much about the human rights of anybody in the way. This said of course there were many in the IJA that did try to stay human and tried to prevent the atrocities.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

A fairly balanced assessment

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Good.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Agreed. If they were all well-paid prostitutes, why was there a need to destroy the records later by imperial Japan?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Yoshimi does not state that there was "mass scale" coercion directly by the Japanese military, but that it created a system in which

Sigh. This is yet again, a pathetic attempt to widen the definition of "coercion" which is fine when discussing among experts but when such explanations are lacking within the western media, the narrative simply remains that the Japanese military abducted these women forcibly.

Furthermore, to discuss human rights violation during the time of war is a bit petty considering the fact the many civilians were subjugated to giving up their ordinary lives which not only includes the soldiers but doctors, engineers, merchants who were sent off to various other Asian nations where their freedom to go back home was restricted once the war intensified. So no. There wasn't anything specifically 'restrictive' about the comfort women that warrants such label.

The ongoing existence brothels within the military (State sanctioned, or unregulated) is the 'system' itself where there will always exist an abuse of women. Again, you have not provided one single argument where the Japanese military of 70 years ago gets singled out based on the conditions you described above. Can you imagine what would happen without the existence of these brothels? Your "more so for not being able to create a system in which it was possible to prevent frequent violations in the name of the system it had created." is the least of your problems as seen in cases of mass rape by the occupying force (Okinawa, Vietnam, Yugoslav)

Yoshimi's game is simple. Expand the definition of "coercion" to a point where going to work on Monday fits the definition, apply it towards the comfort women, and present a simple conclusion that they were 'coerced'. And never address the issue of 'by whom' for leaving them out will automatically conclude to "Japanese military" despite the countless evidence proving otherwise.(parents selling them, brokers, harsh economic conditions)

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Furthermore, to discuss human rights violation during the time of war is a bit petty considering the fact the many civilians were subjugated to giving up their ordinary lives which not only includes the soldiers but doctors, engineers, merchants who were sent off to various other Asian nations where their freedom to go back home was restricted once the war intensified. So no. There wasn't anything specifically 'restrictive' about the comfort women that warrants such label.

It is true that ordinary Japanese people suffered just as much as anyone else due to the stupidity, incompetence and brutality of their regime. Perhaps if there is to be another apology from the Japanese government this year it should be to them.

Can you imagine what would happen without the existence of these brothels?

We don't have to, unfortunately.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Agreed. If they were all well-paid prostitutes, why was there a need to destroy the records later by imperial Japan?

Exactly. One would think the IJA would be eager to keep such records as "evidence", but as we can see that wasn't the case

Can you imagine what would happen without the existence of these brothels?

Let me ask another question then: Are you trying to justify their use?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

nigelboy JAN. 26, 2015 - 06:02AM JST

Sigh. This is yet again, a pathetic attempt to widen the definition of "coercion"

No, I'm not "widening" the any definition, coercion is coercion, just making clear who is the main culprit.

Furthermore, to discuss human rights violation during the time of war is a bit petty

Not sure if you're really aware of what you are saying. To make the Japanese military look better you want to make us believe that we shouldn't worry about violations of human rights in a war, because many bad things happen to many people anyway. What a hypocritical argument!

The ongoing existence brothels within the military (State sanctioned, or unregulated) is the 'system' itself where there will always exist an abuse of women.

It seems your syntax got a bit mixed up, but it sounds like: women in military brothels will always be abused and therefore we don't have to worry about the abuse that happened in the Japanese comfort stations during WW2. Again blatant hypocrisy!

nigelboy, your meandering arguments are an odd mixture of denial, downplaying, finger pointing, lukewarm excuses and diverting attention.

Violation of human rights in your view are either

... no violations

... not really violations

... violations that happen in other places too

... violations that happen anyway

... or violations that were committed by henchmen

What we get is that you are very worried about the Japanese military having a clean sheet and are trying to whitewash Japanese responsibility for war crimes.

It is like your are desperately trying to hide a white elephant in the room.

Again to get the facts straight:

Japan started this completely unnecessary war,

... created and maintained the comfort station system,

... was the principal and boss of an armada of henchmen

... and frequently violated human rights by coercing and enslaving women,

... so it is responsible and should be liable.

No Japanese aggression, no violation of human rights in the Asia-Pacific War

At the end it is as simple as that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No, I'm not "widening" the any definition, coercion is coercion, just making clear who is the main culprit.

Then please state them so as the last year's report which concludes "The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.”

Not sure if you're really aware of what you are saying. To make the Japanese military look better you want to make us believe that we shouldn't worry about violations of human rights in a war, because many bad things happen to many people anyway. What a hypocritical argument!

No. It's your attempt to isolating as if the 'comfort women' were the only people who were subjected to the conditions which includes being sent overseas in a broad definition of 'unwilling' manner.

It seems your syntax got a bit mixed up, but it sounds like: women in military brothels will always be abused and therefore we don't have to worry about the abuse that happened in the Japanese comfort stations during WW2. Again blatant hypocrisy!

No. What I find to be hypocritical is that your insistence that the 'system' in which the Japanese military deserves a special treatment where despite the apologies and humanitarian efforts conducted by the current Japanese government, they still need to address them.

Furthermore, please refer to the McGraw Hill textbook passage @Jan. 17, 2015 - 04:21AM JST. You accuse me of downplaying but how could I not downplay such passage which is completely contrary to the evidence?

Violation of human rights in your view are either

No. You are shifting goal posts where you are applying modern day and ever evolving standards in regards to 'human rights' where it boils down to the simple conclusion that almost everybody who served during the war (soldiers and affiliated civilians) had their human rights violated in one form or another. It again begs the question why the comfort women needs to be singled out which you have yet to give an answer.

Japan started this completely unnecessary war,

There we go. As if it happens to be a 'necessary' war, such system wouldn't have existed? Or is Japan only capable of starting 'unncessary' war?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Then please state them so as the last year's report which concludes

You are not talking about a Japanese government report are you? We know what current government now is up to...

No. You are shifting goal posts where you are applying modern day and ever evolving standards in regards to 'human rights'

No post shifting at all. What we are talking about was of course a crime then as it is now.

A quote from the UNITED NATIONS Economic and Social Council Report from 1998:

http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/h0056.pdf

Accordingly, the Japanese military's enslavement of women throughout Asia during the Second World War was a clear violation, even at that time, of customary international law prohibiting slavery. ... The treatment of the "comfort women" falls within the ordinary usage of "slavery" and the "slave trade" and meets the 1926 Slavery Convention definition of slavery as "the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised". According to the Japanese Government's own admissions, as noted above, the women were "deprived of their freedom" and "recruited against their own will". ... Due to the massive scale on which these crimes were committed and to the Japanese military's clear involvement in the establishment, maintenance and regulation of these rape centres, Japanese military officials who were involved or responsible for the "comfort stations" may similarly be held responsible for crimes against humanity. As a result, the Japanese Government itself also has a continuing obligation to provide compensation for the harms that these women and girls suffered due to the actions of the Japanese military.

The above report also describes really concisely how cunningly the Japanese government is denying legal responsibility even though it had admitted the wrongdoings. It is revealing to read the above document in depth and basically all your frequent claims, nigelboy, have been clearly refuted there.

But surely we will soon be told that the UN is biased, anti-Japanese, not a good source and else...

Also it is good to know that Japan had set standards for the recruitment of comfort women (age over 21, no coercion, already prostitutes, etc.), as there was widespread opposition against the violent recruitment process even inside Japan, but apparently those standards were only enforced in Japan, not in its colonies or in the conquered lands. Another example of the racist worldview of militarist Japan then. If the Japanese military had sticked to its own standards we would not have to discuss violations of human rights here.

You accuse me of downplaying but how could I not downplay such passage which is completely contrary to the evidence?

We have had enough links and quotations here about the evidence in regard to direct involvement of the Japanese military in coercing, enslaving and raping women in relation to the comfort women system, but Indonesian (Dutch) and Philippine documentations, that are also linked on the AWF site at http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0205.pdf and http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/ALCS.pdf, are especially revealing.

It again begs the question why the comfort women needs to be singled out which you have yet to give an answer.

What do you mean by singling out? This is a thread about comfort women, we will discuss other violations of human rights in the respective threads.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

You are not talking about a Japanese government report are you? We know what current government now is up to...

Nope. http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000042171.pdf

No post shifting at all. What we are talking about was of course a crime then as it is now.

No. You cited McDougal report which the AWF themselves state " In this report, the nature of the comfort station systen was unilaterally described as "sexual slavery at a rape center."

Furthermore, this report as per AWF states "None of Arafune figures have any basis whatsoever. It is most unfortunate that Special Rapporteur McDougal, who held a responsible position working for a United Nations organization, relied on such an untrustworthy source."

The above report also describes really concisely how cunningly the Japanese government is denying legal responsibility even though it had admitted the wrongdoings. It is revealing to read the above document in depth and basically all your frequent claims, nigelboy, have been clearly refuted there.

And let's not forget the Coomaraswamy report which preceded cites Seiji Yoshida which was proven to be false and was retracted by Asahi last year.

Also it is good to know that Japan had set standards for the recruitment of comfort women (age over 21, no coercion, already prostitutes, etc.), as there was widespread opposition against the violent recruitment process even inside Japan, but apparently those standards were only enforced in Japan, not in its colonies or in the conquered lands. Another example of the racist worldview of militarist Japan then. If the Japanese military had sticked to its own standards we would not have to discuss violations of human rights here.

Of course. It would be kidnapping and such preventions/apprehensions were done by police including the occupied territories of Korea and Taiwan (newspaper articles already linked).

We have had enough links and quotations here about the evidence in regard to direct involvement of the Japanese military in coercing, enslaving and raping women in relation to the comfort women system, but Indonesian (Dutch) and Philippine documentations, that are also linked on the AWF site at http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0205.pdf and http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/ALCS.pdf, are especially revealing.

"In view of the above, the conclusion must be drawn that the majority of the women concerned does not belong to the group of women forced into prostitution. Too little information is available on the circumstances in which the other European women were recruited for the military brothels to establish with any certainty whether force was exerted in their cases"

What do you mean by singling out? This is a thread about comfort women, we will discuss other violations of human rights in the respective threads.

When would that be? Because what I see and what you described above which is the 'human rights' violation didin't start with comfort women and it certainly did continue by the Korean government with their own state sanctioned 'comfort women' system and the U.S. occupation of Kores and Vietnam where they have used such combination of state regulated and unregulated brothel houses in occupied territories (U.S. version of unmoku no ryoukai) where it certainly would likely result in 'human rights' violations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Then please state them so as the last year's report which concludes "The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.”

Do you honestly think anyone's impressed by that except the kind of people who want to believe it? Or put it another way, if a report had come out when the DPJ was in power saying the opposite, would you trust that as well?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Then please state them so as the last year's report which concludes "The recognition obtained through these series of studies was that it was not possible to confirm that women were “forcefully recruited.”

What you linked is a Japanese government report "Details of Exchanges Between Japan and the Republic of Korea (ROK) Regarding the Comfort Women Issue ~ From the Drafting of the Kono Statement to the Asian Women's Fund ~"

It does not contain any research into the validity of evidence in relation to comfort women. I don't know why you link it here, but it describes in detail the Japanese view of negotiations of the Kono statement. It is not an independent source like the UN report, but rather a document created to justify the Japanese position and the AWF.

In this report, the nature of the comfort station systen was unilaterally described as "sexual slavery at a rape center."

The report is not "unilateral" at all. The UN trans-national organization and bound to independence. How you refer to the UN report shows more about your own unilateral stance then about the quality of the report.

It would be kidnapping and such preventions/apprehensions were done by police including the occupied territories of Korea and Taiwan (newspaper articles already linked).

We already know by now that the coercion and enslavement mainly happened after 1942, when the war was getting fiercer, the moral in the Japanese military was deteriorating and it became impossible to recruit enough "proper" comfort women. The linked articles are all pre-war cases and don't contradict anything.

"In view of the above, the conclusion must be drawn that the majority of the women concerned does not belong to the group of women forced into prostitution. Too little information is available on the circumstances in which the other European women were recruited for the military brothels to establish with any certainty whether force was exerted in their cases"

Funny how you quote documents... you extract one sentence from its context so that it looks as if the document supports your position.

The next sentence in the document says very clearly:

"Of the two hundred to three hundred European women working in these brothels, 65 were most certainly forced into prostitution."

And this is only about the European women, it mentions on several occasions that many more indigenous and local women were forced and maltreated apparently worse then the European women.

But the document also shows that there were different positions within the Japanese military and that some did try to act in humane way, unfortunately that was not the prevailing stance at the hight of WW2.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It does not contain any research into the validity of evidence in relation to comfort women. I don't know why you link it here, but it describes in detail the Japanese view of negotiations of the Kono statement. It is not an independent source like the UN report, but rather a document created to justify the Japanese position and the AWF.

And despite many years of investigation by the organization, there still no evidence.

The report is not "unilateral" at all. The UN trans-national organization and bound to independence. How you refer to the UN report shows more about your own unilateral stance then about the quality of the report.

When it cites a soap box speech made by a political candidate or Seiji Yoshida where it has already been retracted by historians previously, there word 'unilatersl' is too kind.

We already know by now that the coercion and enslavement mainly happened after 1942, when the war was getting fiercer, the moral in the Japanese military was deteriorating and it became impossible to recruit enough "proper" comfort women. The linked articles are all pre-war cases and don't contradict anything.

And yet the ATIS report gives us a completely different picture. And now, the shifting has began with such ambiguous phrase "proper".

"Of the two hundred to three hundred European women working in these brothels, 65 were most certainly forced into prostitution."

Yes. The Semarang case which is repeated again and again where the operation was shut down by the top of Japanese military once they discovered the said unit was violating the code further proving that they did not condone such actions.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

You are repeating yourself, nigelboy. It doesn't make your arguments more true.

shifting has began with such ambiguous phrase "proper".

Maybe you don't know the meaning of " "?

Anyway I believe we've heard all important arguments by now...

Just out of curiosity before signing off here... do you agree with the following words by a former Japanese prime minister as written on the AWF website, nigelboy?

"During a certain period in the not too distant past, Japan, following a mistaken national policy, advanced along the road to war, only to ensnare the Japanese people in a fateful crisis, and, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian nations. In the hope that no such mistake be made in the future, I regard, in a spirit of humility, these irrefutable facts of history, and express here once again my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology. Allow me also to express my feelings of profound mourning for all victims, both at home and abroad, of that history."

Or would you prefer to have such statements retracted as they obviously contradict your interpretation of history and display empathy with the victims of Japan's war rage in a way you seem to avoid even hinting at here?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

No. What I find to be hypocritical is that your insistence that the 'system' in which the Japanese military deserves a special treatment where despite the apologies and humanitarian efforts conducted by the current Japanese government, they still need to address them.

Nope, we've already shown that apologies given by previous Japanese governments have been rendered almost negligible by the statements of Abe, and Hashimoto etc. Humanitarian aid is another matter

Yes. The Semarang case which is repeated again and again where the operation was shut down by the top of Japanese military once they discovered the said unit was violating the code further proving that they did not condone such actions.

Wrong again, as this link shows. Go to the 2nd paragraph of page 29https://books.google.com.au/books?id=HDyFAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=japanese+military+condoned+sex+slave+system&source=bl&ots=YYzEskW5F6&sig=su97cp5ciStYjoDzfohxq35IGlE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jATHVMi7L4i8mAXpmIK4Bw&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=japanese%20military%20condoned%20sex%20slave%20system&f=false

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

bam_booJan. 27, 2015 - 08:21AM JST

Supporting McDougal report of 1998 is supporting rewriting of history.

It is a simple question. If you have 2 reports, one in 1945 and one in 1998, which is the original and which is the rewritten version ?

Christopher GlenJan. 27, 2015 - 12:26PM JST

Wrong again, as this link shows. Go to the 2nd paragraph of page 29

I have read that paragraph, but it says nothing about Semarang case. The outcome of Semarang case is well documented, and what nigelboy wrote is true. Your attempt to re-write history here has just failed.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

CH3CHO JAN. 27, 2015 - 01:54PM JST

Supporting McDougal report of 1998 is supporting rewriting of history.

That's what the world has concluded after a thorough investigation and independent evaluation of the case and rightly so.

Nobody cares what a small number of nationalist right-wing nuts from Japan thinks about history.

It is a simple question. If you have 2 reports, one in 1945 and one in 1998, which is the original and which is the rewritten version ?

As for crimes like rape we know that it very often takes years if not decades bevor victims are able to testify about their ordeal so absolutely 1998 is the version to look at.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The outcome of Semarang case is well documented

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd like to see some mainstream evidence. If it was true, it would be a blip on the radar, a speck in the ocean of national policy on the operation of sex slave brothels

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Something about the Semarang case that bothers me, although it is written within some articles about post-war testimonies, the dutch war tribunal about this case was never released and had been sealed so no one really knows the details of the actual case.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

You are repeating yourself, nigelboy. It doesn't make your arguments more true.

Complete lack of evidence? It still hold true today despite "the relevant ministries and agencies continuously investigated related documents and additionally conducted search and investigation of documents in the United States National Archives and Records Administration and in other locations. With these documents that were obtained in this way as a basis, it also began to analyze hearings of military-related parties and those responsible for managing the comfort stations, as well as testimonies collected by the Korean Council, and was able to practically finish compiling the report on the study results."

Or would you prefer to have such statements retracted as they obviously contradict your interpretation of history and display empathy with the victims of Japan's war rage in a way you seem to avoid even hinting at here?

I would prefer that such statements should be retracted simply because people like yourself, the western media, and of course, the McGraw Hill textbook expanded such sincere statements to expand and distorted to the narrative of "200,000 women abducted by the Japanese military"

To repeat the McGraw Hill textbook once again,

"Women's experiences in war were not always ennobling or empowering. The Japanese army forcibly recruited, conscripted, and dragooned as many as two hundred thousand women age fourteen to twenty to serve in military brothels, called "comfort houses" or "consolation centers". The army presented the women to the troops as a gift from the emperor, and the women came from Japanese colonies such as Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria and from occupied territories in the Philippines and elsewhere in southeast Asia. The majority of the women came from Korea and China."

Once forced into this imperial prostitution service, the "comfort women" catered to between twenty and thirty men each day. Stationed in war zones, the women often confronted the same risks as soldiers, and many became casualties of war. Others were killed by Japanese soldiers, especially if they tried to escape or contracted venereal diseases. At the end of the war, soldiers massacred large numbers of comfort women to cover up the operation. The impetus behind the establishment of comfort houses for Japanese soldiers came from the horrors of Nanjing, where the mass rape of Chinese women had taken place. In trying to avoid such atrocities, the Japanese army created another horror of war. Comfort women who survived the war experienced deep shame and hid their past or faced shunning by their families. They found little comfort or peace after the war."

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"You cannot rewrite history! Not one line!"

This is true, but history is often also written by the victors. Even allowing for that however, it doesn't excuse Japan's forceful coercion of up to 200,000 sex slaves from various countries.

The impetus behind the establishment of comfort houses for Japanese soldiers came from the horrors of Nanjing, where the mass rape of Chinese women had taken place

That wouldn't have happen if Japan hadn't tried to copy the western powers and have an overseas empire of its own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

expanded such sincere statements to expand and distorted to the narrative of "200,000 women abducted by the Japanese military"

Nope, the real distortion comes from the twisted and misguided ideology pushed by revisionists, especially regarding the sex slaves

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What's so bad about admitting it? I don't get why do they fear it so much because we all had stuff we are ashamed of (concentration camps and gulags in Nazi Germany and USSR), Spanish Inquisition, all sorts of genocides done for own people. There could be some trial and whoever wins the case will be the winner and facing the facts like documents, photos and witnesses would be easier to determine who did what and how during the WW2. But I just can't forget a Japanese diplomat called Chiune Sugihara, who during the war saved thousands of Jews in Eastern Europe by issuing them transit visas risking his own life (I even think he lost it). So it's all so mixed...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yes, Sugihara saved 6,000 Jews (and he lived till 1986) John Rabe - a German Nazi on the other hand - saved up to 200,000 Chinese from rape and death during the Nanking massacre by establishing a safe zone - thus averting an even bigger catastrophe. Most countries teach a warts and all version of their history in schools. It's high time Japan did the same, with special mention of the sex slaves

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Below is a link providing disturbing photo's & video footage of the Rape/Massacre of Nanking. Be warned, not for the fainthearted & young kids to see. To those who are in denial of the full scope of what happened. There are plenty of records/evidence that women were raped in various evil ways. If they are evil enough to do that, what makes you think they wouldn't capture women to become sex slaves? They would commit torture those who resisted by using broken glass to stick it into their vagina. Young girls, pregnant women were raped too. If you want more evidence, let me know.

https://www.pinterest.com/freycarol49/war-nanking-massacre-1937-1938/

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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