politics

Japan berates China's Xi over Nanjing remarks in Berlin

107 Comments

The Japanese government on Sunday criticized Chinese President Xi Jinping for making remarks during a trip to Germany about Japan's wartime atrocities, adding that the government had lodged a protest.

At a think tank forum Friday in Berlin, Xi criticized Japan's wartime atrocities, saying the Japanese military killed more than 300,000 people in Nanjing in 1937 when it occupied the Chinese city, Jiji Press and Kyodo News reported.

Xi also said more than 35 million Chinese people were killed or injured as Japan waged a war of aggression stemming from its militarism, Kyodo said.

"It is extremely unproductive that a Chinese leader makes such remarks about Japanese history in a third country," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

He also said Japan's Foreign Ministry has lodged a protest with the Chinese government on Saturday.

History bears heavy on the Japan-China relationship, most weightily in Nanjing.

Japan invaded China in the 1930s and the two countries fought a full-scale war from 1937 to 1945.

China says more than 300,000 people were slaughtered by Japanese troops in a six-week killing spree in the then capital Nanjing, which began on Dec 13 1937.

Though some foreign academics put the number of deaths much lower, no respected mainstream historians dispute that a massacre took place.

Japan, which was occupied after its defeat and became a vibrant liberal democracy, has issued apologies for its wartime conduct in Asia.

But frequent statements by conservative politicians and public figures seemingly backstepping from them or calling into question issues of historical fact have increased suspicion of the country's motives.

Beijing and Tokyo are also locked in a row also over ownership of a group of small uninhabited islands in the East China Sea.

On Friday, China berated Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for reportedly drawing an analogy between the Crimea crisis and a row between Beijing and Tokyo over the disputed islands.

© (c) 2014 AFP

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

107 Comments
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Ridiculous, there's a time and place for these things, not harping on past atrocities at every single occasion.

Show some class Chi-comm government.

-4 ( +25 / -29 )

It took Japan 50 years or more to become a today's democratic country. We have to give time to China for their modernization of the social system and people's mentality. Today's China is not much different from their ancient feudalistic dictarocial regimes.

-12 ( +15 / -27 )

SchopenhauerMar. 31, 2014 - 07:36AM JST It took Japan 50 years or more to become a today's democratic country

Well not really. Nobody would deny that Japan was a full fledged democratic country in 1964 when the Tokyo Olympics were held. In fact one could say that Japan was a full fledged democracy at the time the US occupation ended in 1952. China economically made a turn around starting in the 1980s and in over 30 years hasn't shown the slightest sign of wanting to become a "democracy". How can it with a one party dictatorship, totalitarian control and no vote?

17 ( +26 / -9 )

This piece clearly shows why the people who say Japan has apologized, and the current deterioration in relations is all the fault of China, are wrong. China was invaded. Its citizens were killed.

Is this the attitude of a country truly reflecting on its role in prosecuting an aggressive war? These comments are extremely similar to the complaints made to China when China put up a statue of a Korean independence activist who killed a former Japanese PM . The Japanese government whined about that too.

If someone kills your family, when exactly is the statue of limitations on telling people you wish it did not happen? Why does that situation change if those family murders are amplified millions of times?

And if, generally speaking, country X invades and completely takes over the administrative apparatus of country Y, and then a citizen of country Y risks his life to assassinate, the leader of the colonial power, that citizen will be viewed by the local people, and the people of other colonized countries, as a hero. That's just human nature. In what parallel universe does the leader of country X get to say, years later after de-colonialism has taken place, that guy was a criminal, and everyone says... you know what, you're right! It's ridiculous.

The Japanese government has absolutely no idea how it is perceived overseas, and by overseas, I don't just mean in the rest of Northeast Asian.

-10 ( +16 / -26 )

Well, if you don't have any country to blame... blame Japan! Japan has got now some almost 70 age of peace, growth etc, haven't ttok part in war that parted an entire nation (China divided Korea and tried to divide Vietnam) and is acountry where you can speak your mind whether you're pro or against current government which is able to withstand even North Korean sponsored schools on it's soil. The sole country in Asia which is full-fledged democracy (you can compare it with Taiwan only).

When you have problems - blame Japan for Unit 731 or Nanking! Or compare it with Germany which never paid for their atrocities during WW!!!

4 ( +18 / -14 )

This piece clearly shows why the people who say Japan has apologized, and the current deterioration in relations is all the fault of China, are wrong. China was invaded. Its citizens were killed.

No use trying to argue with. I think it's a futile waste of time to hope there's room for empathy for different sides. Apparently China hasn't learnt from last 50 years, some people are just not sympathetic to China's cause. Everyone would rather play victim.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

“It is extremely unproductive that a Chinese leader makes such remarks about Japanese history in a third country,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

Remarks about Japanese history? Whether or not they were 'unproductive,' Xi's remarks were about the shared history of China and Japan.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Why do China, Japan and Korea live in the past? Cambodia and Vietnam have had much worse things happen to them but they don't cling to these things, they try to move forward.

Why talk about WWII or N. Korean abductees in 2014? It is 2014 guys.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Of course, China could follow the path of Singapore and prioritize trade and relations with Japan over historical issues.

But the result of this approach is that most members of the public in Japan have never once heard of incidents such as The Sook Ching, where Japan vetted all the Chinese males in Singapore and took all those considered a threat away to be shot. Once the topic is raised, no-one can deny the Sook Ching since there are even documents in Japanese showing the "selection" criteria. But Singapore never raises the topic (and Japan certainly is not going to). This lack of knowledge contributes to the deniability within Japan of the supremacist aims of Japanese expansion and the growing widespread belief that Japan entered Asia for the Asians. This belief would be completely undermined if the Japanese government acknowledged, and discussed with its population, Sook Ching and other similar incidents.

If China were to stop mentioning the atrocities it suffered, you can be sure that like Sook Ching, the violation of China would have been swept under the proverbial rug.

I don't think denial is a good basis for moving forward.

Denial is what allows the growing mood of hate towards Chinese and certain other nationalities now building in Japan to foster.

Now, of course Japan is a modern democracy, and I would rather live in Japan that China. But why does Japan currently being a responsible member of the international community give Japan the right to rewrite the past?

Why does China being a one-party state disqualify them from ever referring to the wrongs they suffered?

Awareness of history and the current political systems and merits of the respective countries are two very different things, aren't they?

1 ( +12 / -11 )

The Chinese leaders are a bunch of political trash who have no sense of national dignity or respect.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

jpn_guy: until it is signed sealed and delivered under constitution, I think it is unfair to call the hot air from the polititians "rewriting the past." C'mon, Japan isn't the only place with "deniers" That hunk of rock called China regularly denies its own atrocities committed against their own people. China Japan and Korea need to stop bringing this beaten to death subject up.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Japanese politicians routinely refute the past with some disparaging remark - the problem is that the Japanese are not aware of their militaristic past and take a (still) superior attitude via a via their standing in Asia.

Lodging a protest over known historical events shows the Japanese government to be extremely childish.....

-2 ( +10 / -11 )

The real underlying issue is China using its historical education system to teach Japan-hate to its young people.

All this talk about world war 2 victims and historical revisionism ignores one very powerful counter example: The Philippines.

The Philippines was one of the worst affected countries in world war 2. It was the site of the Bataan Death March and hand to hand fighting between the Japanese and Filipino American forces resulted in Manila becoming the second most devastated city in world war 2, after Warsaw.

Yet Filipinos do not hate Japanese. Neither do Filipinos hate Americans who killed almost a quarter of all Filipinos during the Filipino American War at the turn of the 20th century.

The reason is that Filipinos do not teach historical hate to its children.

If you wanted to see an alternative reality of what would happen if China and South Korea stopped teaching historical hate to its children you have to look no further than The Philippines.

15 ( +23 / -8 )

Alejandro S. Arashi Yet Filipinos do not hate Japanese. Neither do Filipinos hate Americans who killed almost a quarter of all Filipinos during the Filipino American War at the turn of the 20th century. The reason is that Filipinos do not teach historical hate to its children. If you wanted to see an alternative reality of what would happen if China and South Korea stopped teaching historical hate to its children you have to look no further than The Philippines.

Do Japanese leaders openly deny the Bataan death march?

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

This aversion to the truth shows that Japan is still a war criminal nation still trying desperately to cover up its track, in spite of it democratic trappings.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

China has every right to discuss it's history with another country during a think tank meeting. What right does Japan have to complain? What is Japan afraid of? The truth?!

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

On the one hand President Xi Jinpin could have performed the role of an inspirational international leader and statesman.

With US/Europe in deadlock with Russia, President Xi Jinpin could have basked in the glory of a wise and constructive man of conscience, setting party political points scoring aside and held out the hand of reconciliation.

Instead President Xi Jinpin chose to be a resentful political time traveller.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

There's a reason why the whole Asia bar N/S Korea doesn't like PRC - I repeat, PRC, not Chinese people - those poor souls have no saying whatsoever. Pro-China, don't kid yourself.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

igloobuyer:

China has every right to discuss it's history with another country during a think tank meeting. What right does Japan have to complain? What is Japan afraid of? The truth?!

Japan has every right to discuss it's history with another country during a think tank meeting. What right does China have to complain? What is China afraid of? The truth?!

Goes both ways buddy.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Japan has never officially denied that the massacre took place. It does take umbrage, and rightly so, at the grossly exaggerated number mentioned by the Chinese Communist leadership who, at the time, were busy retreating away from the fighting in their Long March.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

No one denies the battle of Nanjing. The problem is that a lot of propaganda were advertised by Nationalist Party and Communist Party of China as well as Japan. Many of the propaganda were denied by research. But a whole lot are still left to be examined, if ever could.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Good on the Japanese politicians. I love to see backbone, and its about time the government started firing back at China for its "International Anti-Japan Smear Campaign" based on events that happened 70 years, perpetrated by a completely different government.

Further, let's not go into who values history more, please. I'll take the Chinese side's point into consideration when they start teaching, objectively, the Tiananmen Square Massacre to students.

Finally, the majority of Japanese textbooks are far more forthcoming about information regarding WWII than some American and South Korean textbooks and most (if not all) Chinese textbooks.

http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/

7 ( +13 / -6 )

who, at the time, were busy retreating away from the fighting in their Long March.

Mike@the Long March ended in October 1935 and the Nanjing incident occurred in December 1937 so your use of the gerund ("retreating") makes your assertion factually incorrect.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The majority of the japanese these days are idiots. mindless robots who ALL DO the same thing! but you have your idiots on either side of the fence. Japan doesn't seem like a democracy. but its amazing the people all on here who think so. I guess I am the only one who doesn't feel this. Says a lot.

-13 ( +3 / -15 )

While I won't whitewash or deny Japan's WW2 history, the Japanese government today has been too timid in responding to China's barrage of criticism. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Japan should mention a few skeletons in China's WW2 closet.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

@billyhelpher_33

The majority of the japanese these days are idiots. mindless robots who ALL DO the same thing! but you have your idiots on either side of the fence.

Why only limit to Japanese?, I thought that doing what everybody else does is part of the human nature. Look how many Lady Gaga fans there are. Or look how many people think they have a original thought as you do.

Japan doesn't seem like a democracy. but its amazing the people all on here who think so.

Well, you seem to have a very poor concept of what democracy is. Democracy is not centered in elections or what political party is in power for hoe many time. Democracy means there is freedom to say and do what you what, within some boundaries (one freedom ends where the other people freedom begins). Democracy is that you have the option to choose and you have to assume the responsibilities of that choice.

I think, Japan though may not be "the ideal image of democracy" (I don't think there is a country like that), but it is a democracy. So your point of view may need to be revised.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@CH3CHO Good to see you on this thread. Would you care to comment on my example of the "Great Inspection of Singapore" and how the Singaporean government's decision to prioritize trade links over historical memory has ensured that no-one in Japan knows anything about this atrocity?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If the CCP wants to remind the world of the damage caused to China and its people by the Japanese prior to 1945, the Japanese (and other nations) should be begin reminding the world about the damage done to China and its people by the CCP since 1949 - and which is ongoing. 20 million died during the Japanese occupation (and the majority of those by disease and starvation), while the CCP body count is 80 million and rising each year. The CCP harping on about events of 70+ years ago, are nothing but crocodile tears about the past from a small-minded criminal gang who have no positive narrative to present about their own time in power.

In 1945, Japanese war-criminals were put on trial and executed or imprisoned, the political structure of the country was rebuilt from the ground up to create a truly democratic nation, reparations were paid to all nations damaged by the former militarist regime, steps taken to improve relations with other nations over decades, and Japan has become a model global citizen. One can only hope the same thing happens with the CCP and China.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

@jpn_guy

C'mon, that is a problem here and every where. Do you think that the vast majority of the people in the States knows really what happened in the Alamo? Or do the majority of the Pakistani and Indian people know the core matter of their mutual dislike?

Or what the Inca Empire did to the other cultures they conquered? Or how did The United States come to have such territories as Alaska, Louisiana, Florida, California, etc.? Or do the common England man know what its country has done to the Scottish and Irish people?

...The list can go on. People forgets for many reasons. After the war, people forgive and let what has been done in the past.

You may not want to forget, that is ok, but you sure need to forgive and go forward. Or... you (and China) can keep in the past and eventually regret it.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

What all the China supporters who go on about what Japan did during WWII is that China and Japan already came to terms with "history" back in 1972 when PM Tanaka met with Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai, legendary Chinese leaders and apologized, agreed to compensation resulting in both nations signing the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship. Both nations even reaffirmed it again in 1978. Based on this relationship was able to make use of Japanese assistance, technology and investment so that it could attain the economic level it has today. So is China a country which does not respect it's own treaties that it signs? How are any other nations to treat agreements with such a country? Does China really think that Asia will accept it as a "leader"? Does China think that the west considers it a country that can be trusted?

3 ( +11 / -8 )

Japan has become a model global citizen - agreed, in all respects except one, historical denial of the past and ongoing reverence for the prewar regime.

And in reference to the above example of why the Philippines have forgiven Japan when other nations have not, the JIA was in the Philippines for less than three years, in China for 14 years, and in control of Japan's nearest neighbor for nearly 50 years!

This simple fact is often left out when people claim "only two countries in Asia go on about the war" line.

It is unlikely to be coincidence that those who shout loudest suffered longest.

That said, I agree with the posters who feel frustration that Japan's role in the world today is compromised by what happened 70 years ago. But is it only the Chinese government who are harking back to the past?

If Mr. Abe and his government want the emphasis on what Japan is now rather than what it used to be, why do they insist on slogans like "bringing back Japan". Why does Abe himself constantly refer to the war years and related issues? Why does he visit a shrine established in a completely different era when the emperor was divine?

Why does he not have a bad word to say about pre-war Japan, a country ruled at the whim of the military, bureaucrats, prosecutors and the secret police, instead of elected politicians (while all the while hypocritically claiming to love democracy?)

Why does he say things like "their is no recognized academic definition of invasion" and then claim other people are the ones who keep raking over the past?

Sure, China is guilty as a one party state sowing hate among its citizens, but if you think that explains this whole sad situation you are leaving out a large number of other factors.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Enough already. How many times does Japan have to apologize only to be demeaned by a hypocritical Chinese commie leadership. They should look back at what their own "DEAR LEADSER" Moe se "DUNG" as in crap and ask how many millions of his own people did he starve to death! Stinking hypocrites that they are!

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Hand on heart, my family in Kochi, and after all that is my only appropriate personal experience of life in Japan I can draw on, have not succumbed to inward facing self-serving historical revisionism that a small minority of nationalist politicians can be accused of clinging on to.

Senior family members are fiercely traditional with a very focused and complex mindset. Proud yet humble , steeped in the old ways yet forward thinking, patriotic yet not nationalist, spiritual with precise enunciation of the past. Most of all painfully aware of their cultural strengths and weaknesses, but unable to express openly emotional regret and shame. please don't fall into the trap of judging an enter race on the actions and uttering of small politically motivated group of opportunists.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Daniel Neagari "You may not want to forget, that is ok, but you sure need to forgive and go forward".

Agreed. Step 1) remember Step 2) acknowledge Step 3) forgive Step 4) move on. Very good, very sensible. But note the order of the steps.

But what is the appropriate course of action when the prime minister of Japan says "there is no academic definition of invasion?" The most sensible interpretation of this comment is that Abe believes the Japanese military campaigns were not invasions.

He is refusing to join China on Step 1.

How is China supposed to climb alone to Step 4?

And again, I am not sure what any of this has to do with the past and current faults of the CCP and the obvious truism that China could benefit from democratic reform.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

JPN_guy.

Those steps don't have to be taken together, they are part of evolving/growing yourself. Saying I won't do it till you do it too is infantile at best.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

“It is extremely unproductive that a Chinese leader makes such remarks about Japanese history in a third country,”

Yeah, come on! We want to keep a lid an all that stuff!!

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

...oh... well

It''S ME beat me to it.

None the less, regarding the

But what is the appropriate course of action when the prime minister of Japan says "there is no academic definition of invasion?" The most sensible interpretation of this comment is that Abe believes the Japanese military campaigns were not invasions....

I am no expert in this matter, though I like to make this question.... Has China submitted an academic study that has been scrutinized and approved by an international board, based on which Japan and China can begin its conversations?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@It's ME "Saying I won't do it till you do it too is infantile at best".

"I won't until you won't" is a deliberate misrepresentation of the position by invoking playground language.

Asking the other party to acknowledge what happened as a precondition for moving on is not infantile at all. It is the basic process and internationally recognized process by which reconciliation is achieved. That's why South Africa set up the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to move on from apartheid.

Truth and Reconciliation. You can't have one without the other. Were Mandela and Tutu "infantile" too for following this basic premise?

How can you move on if you don't agree what you are moving on from?

I honestly believe the right-wingers in Japan would have less hate in their hearts if they knew more about the actions of the Imperial Army. I am not from Singapore, China or even Asia. I just can't stand living in Japan and hearing the "they hate us for no reason" speech trotted out again and again like a broken record.

Separately , I see that no-one has decided to engage with the topic of the Japan "inspecting" and them murdering the Chinese citizens of Singapore and how it fits with the narrative of Japan invading Asia for magnanimous reasons.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

History bears heavy on the Japan-China relationship, most weightily in Nanjing.

After the CCP decided to claim the Senkaku Islands. Because they knew about he potential resources there since ancient times.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Though some foreign academics put the number of deaths much lower, no respected mainstream historians dispute that a massacre took place.

These AFP articles always say this sort of thing, but how is the reader to tell which historians are "respected" and "mainstream", versus those who are not?

Ultimately I'd rather form an opinion based on substance, but the news media offers little help there.

It's no wonder really that China and Japan are unable to get past this.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japan, which was occupied after its defeat and became a vibrant liberal democracy, has issued apologies for its wartime conduct in Asia.

Who wrote this nonsense, and what Kool-Aid are they drinking? A "vibrant liberal democracy"? We all know the LDP has ruled Japan almost un-broken since the end of the war, and many of their initial leaders were the same folks who were in influential positions during the war, and many of the current leaders are descendants of those same folks -- including Aso and Abe. Hardly a "vibrant liberal democracy".

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Abe should apologize to his neighboring countries just like his predecessors did. Then this would put the whole argument to rest. Let bygone be bygone. The fact is WWII history is well documented by the whole world, not by one particular country. Therefore it is impossible to deny the truth. Facts are facts, one has to admit wrongdoings and move on. So the next generation can develop a normal relationship. However Uncle Sam may not wish to see the no 2 and no 3 top economies get along too well because that could threaten its lone superpower status. International politics is complicated. Uncle Sam can reap in enormous financial and political benefits from both sides if the no 2 and no 3 are in enmity.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

decibel - its so ingrained to use the war as an excuse to garner sympathy for political power that I can't even find the power to begin to describe how naive that statement was.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Solution: Wait for the Old Japanese nationalists to die off and let the younger sensible generation of japanese people take over, acknowledge their mistakes, and move on.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The most senior member of my family once recanted to my father the events of August 15, 1945 everything he had built had been destroyed, many lives shattered , Japan as a nation state was broken . It was the first time Emperor Hirohito had never spoken directly to all his subjects, up until then words were pasted down a chain in the form of imperial prescripts. Emperor Hirohito final words 'The Japanese military will be disarmed and allowed to return to Japan, this means, that Japan has lost'.

Tokyo had been virtually bombed to rumble, many had chosen to end their lives than surrender, those who set about the rebuilt process fully acknowledged that Emperor Hirohito and the Senior military leadership had ordered the imperial army's takeover of the three Chinese provinces known collectively as Manchuria, also eight years previously the imperial army had initiated open war against China in the emperor's name. A question, what are the terms for resolution, reconciliation and forgiveness?

Is 21st century Japan required to re-enact The Merchant of Venice Act IV, Scene 1?

Which is a pound of this poor merchant's flesh....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I thought the German government had asked China to refrain from making the Berlin trip the stage for another anti-Japanese rant. But I guess such common courtesy was too much to expect from the Chinese Politbureau.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Wait for the Old Japanese nationalists to die off and let the younger sensible generation of japanese people take over, acknowledge their mistakes

I don't know man, the younger japanese generation is looking a lot like the ones before it. Maybe worse

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Some right-wingers in Japan will most certainly try to change written history to their own suitable needs. However Im sure that they will learn that the time when peoples mind could be controlled like that are over. NK and China and possibly a few more countries are the only states that still try to stop information. Heck even Putin has big trouble to feed his propaganda to the people. If they try to change the accepted view of Japans war atrocities in China I'm sure it will lead to their own loss. However don't forget that this political game is more about using the guilt sentiments as a bat trying to achieve other goals. As far as I have read so far China has not changed political direction regarding the military build up, south and east china sea, at all. From that point of view it is possible that Xi s talk about war atrocities is nothing but a means to try to subdue Japan in the play for control of the seas.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

TokiyoMAR. 31, 2014 - 09:33AM JST igloobuyer: China has every right to discuss it's history with another country during a think tank meeting. What right does Japan have to complain? What is Japan afraid of? The truth?! Japan has every right to discuss it's history with another country during a think tank meeting. What right does China have to complain? What is China afraid of? The truth?! Goes both ways buddy.

Couldn't agree more, 'buddy'. Japan has exactly the same right to discuss any atrocities it suffered at the hands of another nation (read; victims of atomic bombs).

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Why did Abe insist to go the Yasukuni shrine with those Class A war criminals enshrined? This started the whole mess. Are there other ways to commemorate war deads? I thought there are many. Even US think that was a real bad move and voiced their regrets about it.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I have seen no commenter answer the obvious question here;

What is wrong with China discussing it's history with Germany? What is Japan afraid of?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Jpn_guy.

Moving on is NOT done by setting conditions to do so. You won't find peace and forgiveness till you have cultivated those within you.

If you want to change your surroundings you first have to change yourself, and I don't see China or S.Korea on that path.

Peace in Europe after millennia of fighting was not realised by germanies action alone but each country moved in their fashion and timetable. Ditto for the fall of The Wall, end of Apartheid in South Africa, etc.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

It is so painfully obvious that China wants no peace.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

'Solution: Wait for the Old Japanese nationalists to die off and let the younger sensible generation of japanese people take over, acknowledge their mistakes, and move on.'

How I wish I could believe that. One of the tragedies of this country, and why it is often not taken seriously on the international stage is that it seems to have an endless supply of well-connected, generally incompetent political blue bloods doing 12-month stints in charge before sloping off to obscurity or finding jobs such as Chairman of the Olympic Committee. We could be looking at another 10, 20, 30 years of unbroken LDP rule with the offspring of those in power now in power with similar mindsets. There is more chance of dramatic political change in China than in Japan.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@JImizo - I like how you think. It is very true. But the reality is that Chinese officials do not want peace with Japan. Oh, yeah, they will stick their greedy hands out for interest free loans, but will never ever allow history to be dead and buried. Japan has given more to China than any other country, and that is something that Chinese officials never, ever talk about. There can be no peace with China because Chinese officials need their citizenry to have an enemy so they can deflect attention away from their own mismanagement and corruption. Without Japan and the US to hate and to blame all of their problems on the people of China would get rid of them.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

"It is extremely unproductive that a Chinese leader makes such remarks about Japanese history in a third country," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters.

Suga, what's extremely unproductive is Shinzo visiting Yasukuni Shrine and justifying his action. As there are many Japanese leaders either downplaying or denying the savagery committed by Hirohito and his gang, people (including the Chinese leader) need to educate the world so that the Japanese history (the savagery) is not repeated.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

No Japanese leader had offered sincere apologies for wartime atrocities, unlike German chancellors, especially Willy Brandt who knelt at the monument to Warsaw Ghetto victims in 1970.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Ting Zhao: Is that the garbage they feed you in China? So to you, sincere is not a quiet observation but some over dramatic show of prostrating yourself at a foot of a monument?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

jpn_guyMar. 31, 2014 - 08:32AM JST

But the result of this approach is that most members of the public in Japan have never once heard of incidents such as The Sook Ching, where Japan vetted all the Chinese males in Singapore and took all those considered a threat away to be shot.

When a city is occupied, occupying army kill the hiding soldiers in the city. That is called mopping up operation.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Hold on a second. Prime Minister Murayama did offer a sincere apology!! In fact here is a wiki link that shows endless amounts of apologies by Japanese government officials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Even though I really admire and greatly respect Willy Brandt's behaviour towards the past, but isn't he a bit of rarity? I mean think about it for a second. Isn't he one of the only ones to show contrition for his country's actions? I have never seen an American, British, French, Russian or any other leader of a foreign country show so much contrition for his countries actions and I know nobody has ever seen a Chinese leader do such a thing, ever. What is it that is needed here by Prime Ministers? For them to each take the job and immediately apologise for what happened each and every time? That is ridiculous. Fact is apologies have been given countless times. They have just fallen on ears that were not wanting to listen.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@CH3CHO "When a city is occupied, occupying army kill the hiding soldiers in the city. That is called mopping up operation".

Thank you for this clear statement of your position.

During the Sook Ching, all Singaporean males of Chinese extraction had to gather at designated mustering stations for questioning on pain of death. Those who attended the "screenings" were asked questions about their past.

Those with tattoos, those that had posts under the British administration, and those whose families had arrived in China after the Japan-Chinese war were taken away and shot. The execution sites, including the beaches of Changi Beach, Punggol Beach, are all documented in Japanese. None of the above is historically disputed.

From Singapore's national heritage board: "The inspection methods were indiscriminate and non-standardised. Sometimes, hooded informants identified suspected anti-Japanese Chinese; other times, Japanese officers singled out "suspicious" characters at their whim and fancy. Those who survived the inspection walked with "examined" stamped on their faces, arms or clothing; others were issued a certificate. The unfortunate ones were taken to remote places like Changi and Punggol, and unceremoniously killed in batches".

I am not from Singapore, but I think referring to this process as "mopping up" might offend a few Chinese Singaporeans.

But thank you for clarifying where you stand on this issue so we can all see who you are.

I might also add that any "apology" offered by the nationalists who think like you do would be no "apology" at all which is why we go round in circles with the "yes, Japan apologized" "no Japan didn't" argument. It's people like you would constantly undermine the official apologies.

For the record, what do you think of Japan repeatedly apologizing for "inflicting pain and suffering" on Asia. Are you one of the people who thinks no apology was necessary, or one of the people who thinks China should get over it since an apology was already offered? Or are you one of those confused souls who manages to think both at the same time?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

So, Japan's Abe is heralded by wingers here for doing the 'isolate China tour' and using the UN to compare relations with China to those of the Nazis, and then talk about how they are like Russia, but when China asks Japan to recognize actual historical facts Japan cries foul?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

The dog of Asia still barking!!!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Both sides need to leave the past alone and work towards building a future that is prosperous for all. Apologies have been given. They have not been heard. Money has been paid, loans have been given (very little if any ever paid back) even after China was more than able to stand on her own. I am fully in support of all loans and financial assistance being stopped. Japanese citizens should not have to assist a belligerent neighbor who is constantly bringing up a horrible past that happened more than 70 years ago and has apologised for soooooooooooo many times, while its leaders go on mismanaging their country and stealing money from it as well. China gets angry over a few right wing nut jobs denying history for its own self-preservation purposes. No, Japanese should not held responsible anymore for that nonsense. Give and loan me money while I attack you in the international arena for something that YOU are not responsible for but something that someone else did who is most likely dead or at best feeble minded seems ridiculous.

Let the past go and everyone wins!!!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

@sandiegoluv China gets angry over a few right wing nut jobs denying history...

If one of those nut jobs was not the Prime Minister, you might have a point there.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The majority of the japanese these days are idiots. mindless robots who ALL DO the same thing! but you have your idiots on either side of the fence. Japan doesn't seem like a democracy. but its amazing the people all on here who think so. I guess I am the only one who doesn't feel this. Says a lot.

Hey, thanks for insulting the friends and loved ones of a good many posters here, me included. You really need to tone down your xenophobic rhetoric, matey.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Maybe I should clarify.. my remark.. The dog (China) of Asia still barking!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

What's Japan scared of? Germany is a country that knows about honestly owning up to the past. Is Japan afraid it might have to?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

If one of those nut jobs was not the Prime Minister, you might have a point there.

Refresh my memory. Which ring-wing nut job is that? Abe? Well just because you don't like his policies, nor do I, it does not classify him as a right wing nut job. I would classify him as clumsy. But even if you want to classify him as such it still does not discount the fact that there have been so many apologies given by the J-Gov and conveniently ignored by the Chinese, South and North Korean governments for their own personal political and financial interests. Fact is no matter what kind of prime minister you have, those three countries will act as if no apologies have been given. No money has been paid. No interest free loans have been given. That is the true crime in all of this.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

'@sandiegoluv China gets angry over a few right wing nut jobs denying history...

If one of those nut jobs was not the Prime Minister, you might have a point there.'

Whatever view you take on who's to blame for the deteriorating relationship, this copout of 'a few rightwing nutjobs' doesn't hold water. How many times have we woken up to find a foul mess on the carpet because politicians at local and national level as well as those in public broadcasting haven't been house trained? China's tactics to discredit Japan are despicable but idiots in high positions in Japan, very high positions, don't rise above it. To return to the point I made in my previous mail, Japan's position on this issue and many others is a compromised by political culture of cosy privilege which produces incompetence and loudmouths who think standing up for Japan means revisionism and racist comments. It's exasperating that the blundering bullyboys in the CCP are only marginally ahead in a race down the sewer.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@sandiegoluv "Hold on a second. Prime Minister Murayama did offer a sincere apology!!" You are quite right, he did.

Despite glossing over the details of what the IJA did, Murayama's was indeed the first, most heartfelt apology.

However, as you probably know, Murayama was (with the exception of his predecessor who lasted all of 9 weeks) the first non-LDP PM in Japanese post-war history.

That's truly significant. It tells you a heartfelt apology was not possible while the LDP were in power. Well, now they are back in power, and when they repeat the apology of the socialist PM Murayama, they are very careful to parrot it exactly word for word.

Given what you know about Japanese culture and abiding by precedent, why do you think that is? Because they want to make sure they get the words right? Or because they want their nationalist support base to know they are repeating what is already out there, without adding their own opinion.

The personal opinion of the Abe is clearly the exact opposite of the content of the apology. This is clearly and unambiguously revealed when Abe makes provocative statements querying the definition of "invasion", which undermine the whole basis for the apology.

Of course Abe can't come right out and rescind the apology, much as he would like to, since he has a delicate balancing act to play, making sure his staunch nationalist supports, middle of the road voters, and his allies in Washington are all happy. It's the same dynamic that's been in play in the recent theater of contradictory nonsense in which Mr. Abe and Mr. Suga have taken center stage. "Yes, we are investigating the comfort women apology", "No, we have no intention of revising it". It's pitiful.

Of course all politicians can tie themselves in knots courting different audiences - but in Mr. Abe's case its more obvious than most, since he his not the smartest tool in the shed.

In any case, I don't really understand how you can seriously cite the timing and content of the Murayama apology, which is clear evidence of the LDP's intransigence rather than their remorse, as evidence that the Japanese government did all it could to mend fences.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@Jimizo

Once again. I like how you think. Yes, we have woken to a great many of stains on the carpet. And yes, I agree with you, that idiots in very high positions don't rise above it. I have often did a facepalm in the morning when hearing the ignorance that has spewed forth from this idiot's mouth or that one's. You are right on all counts except, and I apologise for disagreeing on the issue of copouts for right-wingers. And that is solely because they are indigenous to every country, no matter where you go. And these idiots will exist forever. Hey, they even have them in Germany. Fortunately none of them have rose to power yet, but wait, there is still time. Anyway, my point is this once again. Japanese officials have apologised more than anyone else for the past except for Germany. And idiots will always be present to stir the pot of anger. Now the problem here is that the three countries that Japan has these beefs with use this to enrage their public so that they can continue to stay in power.

@Smith

Why do you continue to ask Japan to do what only one country has ever done? Have the Spanish, Portuguese, or us Americans ever atoned or apologised for raping two whole continents? They speak Spanish and Portuguse in South America now and go by the names of Gonzolas and Martinez which are not indigenous names. What about the French, Italians, Russians or Chinese? Have any of those groups EVER atoned for their actions? Have any of those groups faced their past? Nope. What are they afraid of? Judging by your name Smith, you are Anglo-Saxon. And if you are, then your country must have a lot of atonement to do, no? I know mine does and it has never atoned for much except slavery.

Germany is a model country now. There is no doubt, but a VERY rare country. Please look at the list of apologies that the Japanese have done and then tell me if your country has done a tenth of an amount of apologies or atonement. I know mine has not.

So, “What are WE scared of?” is what we should be asking OUR own countries. If we don't atone for those actions but constantly ask Japan to do so, then aren’t we just being huge hypocrites?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@sandiegoluv I agree, Germany is rare. This is just evidence that more apologies are in order. It would be a very good idea for a great many nations to look more closely at their history. Many people in the US may not know that the US Air Force went to the trouble of building wooden mock up houses that replicated Tokyo, so they could practice burning people to death and make sure they were very good at it. The massacre of March 10, 1945 is one of the largest (maybe the largest) ever simultaneous killings of non-combatant women, children and old people in world history.

Should the US apologize? I think so. Should the building of mock up towns to practice killing Japanese civilians be in US school text books? I think it should (maybe it is, I wouldn't know).

Do the US and the UK get away with minimizing certain atrocities because they won the war? Obviously.

In an ideal world, all nations would squarely face their histories and realize that much of the misery in recent human history has been wrought by government-led violence.

And if that can prevent future government violence, that's surely a good thing.

Mr. Abe, for his part, is busy making it easier for Japan to participate in government-led violence which is why I believe he should be opposed.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@Sandiegoluv 'Fortunately none of them have rose to power yet,'

That's exactly my point. Nobody is denying that these clowns don't exist in every country. As an example, my own country of birth gifted the world the nazi-sympathizing, holocaust-denying 'Historian' David Irving. I certainly hope people around the world didn't judge UK people by the standards of this rabid anti-Semite and I certainly don't judge all Japanese people by the standards of those requiring toilet and academic training. Most Japanese people I know regard the vast number of Japanese politicians with either contempt or give a sigh and a headshake. My point is that these people are in positions where they are seen as representatives of the Japanese people. I've defended Japanese people during my visits to China, telling them that most Japanese people don't share the views of these insanitary animals.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Sandiegoluv: even if Japan refuses to live up to Germany's example, this thread is about the panic attack of the J-government over China bringing up the facts with Germany. So again, I ask, what are they scared of?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Jimizo I really like how you explain yourself. Good job. But I am afraid I have to disagree with you. Below is a list of outright apologies that have been made and ignored. All, except for Murayama were LDP members. This list does not include the number of times that Foreign Ministers or other government officials have made apologies as well. As for Murayama he was prime minister for a short time no because of the apology but because he was part of a group of a coalition with Socialist whose job was always attacking the government. Once they got in power they did not do much of anything and were quickly shown the door. It is not reflective of his apology at all because as you will see more apologies had already been made way before he came in. As you know, Japanese prime ministership is a revolving door. Those are the two reason that he was shown the door.

1957 - Kishi Nobuske apologized to both Australia and Burma. 1972 – Kakuei Tanaka apologized to China. 1984 - Yasuhiro Nakasone apologized to Asian countries. 1989 – Noboru Takeshita apologized to the Koreans 1990 – Toshiki Kaifu used then words “Sorry” to the Korean people. 1992 – Kichi Miyazawa apologized three times to the Korean people “from the bottom of my heart”. August 23, 1993: Prime Minister Morihiro Hosokawa apologized. August 31, 1994: Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama apologized. June 9, 1995: House of Representatives, National Diet of Japan passed a resolution expressing sorrow. July 1995: Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama apologized June 23, 1996: Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto used “Heartfelt apology”. July 15, 1998: Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, in a letter to the Netherlands Prime Minister Willem Kok apologized October 8, 1998: Prime Minister Keizō Obuchi said “Heartfelt apology”. November 26, 1998: Prime Minister Keizō Obuchi said in a declaration “deep remorse”. On six occasions from 2001 ~ 2005 Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi expressed deep remorse. March 27, 2007 the Japanese parliament issued an official apology August 10, 2010: Prime Minister Naoto Kan expressed "deep regret over the suffering inflicted. December 7, 2010: Prime Minister Naoto Kan apologized for Korea's suffering under colonisation.

@jpn_guy Yes, all countries should follow Germany's example. It would be a much more peaceful world if it did. As for Abe trying to participate in government led violence I am going to assume that you are talking about military build up. Well, if China would behave herself in the South China Sea he would not have a chance. Japanese people are now just scared of China and her flexing her muscles and bullying everyone around.

I hope you both have a great day. Peace out.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

'Let's put it this way: You are invited to your high school reunion party. In that party (all the attendants are over 40 with wives and children, payments for the house and a car that needs to fix something). In that party, were everybody is just remembering an talking peacefully, a guy came to your table and demand you to apologize because you kicked punch him and broke his teeth at school. Even though you apologized afterwards and even you payed to fix his tooth... and that has happen over 24 year ago.. he still demands you to apologize and that he won't leave the table until you bow your head to the floor...'

For a grown-up and a smart person your analogy is ridiculously childish and not very smart.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@sandiegoluv

Your list is all very well but to repeat: 1) The first substantive apology, the apology that became the benchmark, was made only when the LDP fell from power, clearly showing the LDP was incapable of offering a full apology. 2) All these apologies refer in general terms to pain and suffering, but none mention any specifics such as experimentation on live human beings (Unit 731), POW death rates far in excess of those of other nations, and the various well documented massacres, events which are individually denied or ignored by senior Japanese politicians. 3) Japan's current Prime Minister believes Japan did not invade Asia and the verdicts of the Tokyo Tribunals are unjust, undermining everything his predecessors have said (many of whom are simply repeating the apology of the Socialist Murayama, which was, despite being the fullest and most genuine apology, still extremely general).

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

@Smith

No need for a panic attack? Have you not heard of the Cabbage Strategy or Slicing Salami that China incorporates? Take a look at the situation in the S.C.S. in regards to the Phillpines and China.

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/

I think there is just such a need by the governments of Japan, the South China Sea and the USA. China is flexing its muscles in this area and has grown more and more aggressive. I dont think that Japan is scared of anything about this issue. It has no need to be. And If anything the comments by the Chinese President were just meant as a slight at Japan so that the world would focus on WWII and not look at what China is doing in the S.C.S which violates UNCLOS that China signed and ratified. It is just trying to throw attention away from itself so that people will not be focused on its behavior, plain and simple. The victim card is really wearing thing as far as I am concerned and China is no longer the victim but the aggressor. Also, Smith if you would like me to answer your questions than answer mine first, please. You did not answer my question at all about why you expect Japan to show so much sorrow and to teach history better than any other country should.

@Daniel. I kind of liked your analogy.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

jpn_guyMar. 31, 2014 - 05:45PM JST

1) The first substantive apology, the apology that became the benchmark, was made only when the LDP fell from power,

Nations mend ties by peace treaties after a war. San Francisco Peace Treaty, Republic of China Japan Peace Treaty and China(PRC) Japan Peace and Friendship Treaty were all concluded during LDP administration. There is no peace treaty between Korea and Japan because Korea was Japanese ally during WW2. But Korea Japan Basic Treaty to mend ties between Korea and Japan was concluded during LDP administration.

2) All these apologies refer in general terms to pain and suffering, but none mention any specifics

I think Kono Statement was specific to comfort women.

3) Japan's current Prime Minister believes Japan did not invade Asia

Oh, really. He said he refrained from answering to the question if Japan invaded Korea, for definition of invasion is not clear. First, your quote is incorrect in that Korea is replaced by Asia. Second, the usual definition of invasion is to occupy an area by military force. If you apply that definition to the situation in Korea in 1910, since there was no war, since there was no military occupation of Korea and since the unification of Korea and Japan was done by an agreement, it is not an invasion. I think it was a good call that he refrained from answering that loaded question.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

"He said he refrained from answering to the question if Japan invaded Korea, for definition of invasion is not clear. First, your quote is incorrect in that Korea is replaced by Asia. Second, the usual definition of invasion is to occupy an area by military force. If you apply that definition to the situation in Korea in 1910, since there was no war, since there was no military occupation of Korea and since the unification of Korea and Japan was done by an agreement, it is not an invasion. I think it was a good call that he refrained from answering that loaded question."

How complicated does the meaning of invasion need to be? It is quite disturbing to witness here that denial is not only perpetuated by the LDP government but also by a section of the common people.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@CH3CHO "Since the unification of Korea and Japan was done by an agreement, it is not an invasion".

from wikipedia on the first 1905 agreement that preceded the eventual annexation in 1910:

"Delegates of both Empires met in Seoul to resolve differences in matters pertaining to Korea's future foreign policy; however, with the Korean Imperial palace under occupation by Japanese troops, and the Imperial Japanese Army stationed at strategic locations throughout Korea, the Korean side was at a distinct disadvantage in the discussions".

I think scholars of understatement can appreciate the skillful use of 'distinct disadvantage' in the above paragraph.

As a precursor to the above, was the murder of Empress Myeongseong by Japanese agents in 1895 also part of the friendly and cordial agreement process you mention?

"There is no peace treaty between Korea and Japan because Korea was Japanese ally during WW2".

Ally? Perhaps it is more accurate to say that having been annexed forcibly into the Japanese empire, Korea was forced to fight alongside Japan.

I apologize for confusing Abe's quote which you say applies only to Korea. So, according to you, Abe does recognize that Japan invaded China, Burma, Thailand, Hong Kong, Singapore, the Philippines, Guam, and Micronesia then? Does that mean when he visits Yasukuni, he recognizes that he is visiting a shrine dedicated to men who fell in an aggressive war of invasion?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@Jpn_guy. I am starting to understand who fruitless this debate is being. You call the first apology substantial. I beg to differ on all counts and you could only say that if you did not go to the link that I provide here. You will see that there were many more heartfelt apologies before Murayama. Wether Abe is this or that does not concern me. All countries have, had or will have right wing politicians. But what is disturbing is how people will harp on Japan for not apologizing when it already has or that its apology was less than adequate nor sincere enough. It has paid for the infrastructure of both countries to be rebuilt as well, but still they bite back. Never ever will be enough. Even tried to pay victims individually but was told that it was not necessary. Is there a text book that describes the exact words that need to be used in an apology? Because of all the apologies I read, former PM Miyazawa's was by far the most heartfelt. Are you dismissing that? Are you trying to say that the prime minister should apologize on his knees for each and every act that the past generation has done? If your opinion is that the apologies by numerous past PM's is void because one PM said that he has different opinions than the only way out of this is to either forget it completely or wait a thousand years. That is unbelievable and asking way too much. What is more important? Making a relationship with someone who is not going to be fighting you nor has ever fought you or getting all excited when ONE PM comes along with right wing tendencies? So, we have to start the whole framework all over again to make people happy? Give me a break, please. What you are saying is that peace can not be achieved and you have fallen for China"s propaganda to keep drumming up the past so it can do what it wants to while throwing out the victim card all the time. An earlier poster from the Alejandro from the Philippines made a great point in that they have been victimized a lot but are not teaching hate history in their society. They choose to make this an issue. Please read the list of apologies that I posted earlier and remember the unbelievable amount of money that has been given to China and South Korea and not paid back before you go on just following the attack on Japan and claiming that they have not shown enough remorse. I am sure their pocket books would also disagree with you. Now, I am truly done with this debate.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

jpn_guyMar. 31, 2014 - 07:05PM JST

however, with the Korean Imperial palace under occupation by Japanese troops, and the Imperial Japanese Army stationed at strategic locations throughout Korea

Give me a reliable proof that Korean Imperial Palace was occupied by Japanese troops. The fact is it was not. I know Korean ultra nationalists just write these lies in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eulsa_Treaty

Usually, Koreans argue that Japanese delegate Ito's bodyguards were threatening to the Korean Emperor and the court people in 1905, so that the treaty was invalid. The story that the entire palace was under occupation is a total fiction.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Japan Imperial Diet was held November 29, 1890. Here is the starting point of democracy in Japan.

@CH 3 CHO

Are written in the wiki, it is "Korean Fantasy History".

Person who does not know ”The September 7,1901, Boxer Protocol was signed" and "Japan's annexation of the Korean Peninsula treaty” on often.

"Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associated Powers and Germany" on June 28, 1919 Japan government of Micronesia based on trust of the League of Nations and a treaty of Versailles.

"Offense and defense alliance treaty” between Japan and Thailand on December 8, 1941.

They should study more.lol.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

sandiegoluv: "Take a look at the situation in the S.C.S. in regards to the Phillpines and China."

And this relates to Japan admitting its past atrocities... ummm... how?

CH3CHO: "Give me a reliable proof that Korean Imperial Palace was occupied by Japanese troops."

And you wonder why Japanese apologies will never be taken seriously, and why they have to whine and cry when the nations that suffered under their Imperial rule and their atrocities mention to third parties what really happened.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@CH3 So you honestly believe that Korea willingly signed their country away to Japan without any coercion and any statement to the contrary is simply Korean propaganda.

What about the murder of Empress Myeongseong? In general, how do you think citizens of a country feel if assassins from a neighboring country kill members of their royal family? Or is this not true either? (I notice how in your posts you often simply fail to respond to the parts of other people posts that completely undermine your own points - perhaps this time you can do us the favor).

As to the above remarks about the Philippines we may remember that the Philippines was occupied for 3 years, not 15 or 50, which makes a big difference in terms of the national narrative.

However, I would imagine that enough horror took place in those three years for many Filipinos not to echo their governments position of never mentioning the war.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What's Japan scared of? Germany is a country that knows about honestly owning up to the past. Is Japan afraid it might have to?

Does Japan officially refute that the Nanjing Massacre took place? No.

Does it refute that 300,000 people were killed? I think that's more the point, isn't it? There is no definitive death toll, with the aforementioned figure being 33% more than International Military Tribunal for the Far East of the time.

Not defending Japan over this one, just saying.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The obvious problem with Japan "not apologizing" or "not living up to its past" or whatever... is the lack of a strong central authority (and the overall right-wingness of the Japanese government as a whole). You can't just have a group of people that represent the country say this, then have another say that. Whether Japan wants to move left or right, it needs to make a proper decision that will benefit the country's national interests, and stick with that. And obviously denying its past is not one of them.

Should Japan deny its past, and become isolated? Or should Japan just honestly live up to its past, without making excuses or shifting blame? You can't have it both ways. Democracy means the majority's choice, not everyone's views being equally weighed. A nation can only make a single national stance.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

This wouldn't be an issue if people like ishihara were ostracised from politics. The fact that these people still have jobs, or the ability to spout their profound lack of historical knowledge in general, speaks volumes.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Smith - Your hated for Japan and never, ever taking its side is well seen through your comments all the time. Be that as it may, answer my questions. WHY SHOULD JAPAN BE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT ADMITS TO ITS FAULTS WHEN NOBODY ELSE HAS? You have not answered this question, because you can not. You are showing your obvious disdain for Japan which is emotionally based and not intellectual at all. You have provided no facts, unlike me at all. I have shown where the J-Gov officials have apologised time and again. Just look at the wikipedia page that I provided and you have no room to stand on. You have not looked at them, have you?

And this relates to Japan admitting its past atrocities... ummm... how?

Either you do not read things that are posted and are just looking at your own posts or you are just hell bent on blaming Japan for every single thing. Actually the latter seems to be correct if one looks at your never giving Japan a chance on any issue whatsoever.

As I have pointed out time and time again and something that you conveniently ignore and make no comment about is that Japan has admitted its mistakes time and time again only to fall on deaf ears. Your ears are deaf it seems as well. The evidence that I have given is irrefutable that Japan has tried to make amends and that the Chinese government choose to take the aggressive role so that they could avert attention away from the Cultural revolution, The Great Leap Forward, the Tainenmen Square massacre, the Western China incidents all of which have killed way more than the Japanese could ever. And now off to the South China Sea.

Now, I want you to answer my question of why you think the Japanese should do something that no other western country has done? Why not the Spanish? Why not the British? Why not so many others? Why do you hold them to a higher standard? You have ignored what I said about you being Anglo-Saxong and how if you are there is a lot for YOU to atone to. I would like an answer, please.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I am sorry, but it is undeniable. japan has lived up to its past through its apologies. It has apologised countless times, only to be told that the apology was not sincere enough, but if one actually had a working knowledge of what happened and the apologies that were given, one would say, "Let it go". A few ignorant politicians is not worth all the anger because one who is a man of the world knows that, "All mouths in a democracy will not be censored at all ". If you actually think so, then you are nuts. People are entitled to feel how they feel and as long as the government does not aspire to that position than there is no problem at all.

Japan has paid in full as far as I am concerned. South Korea and China have benefitted immensely from the war by the Japanese and the Japanese have never been paid back anything in the area of interest free loans. This whole problem is not because the Japanese wish to save face at all. They have already lost face with so many apologies and the Japanese are really ready to get along with their neighbours. The problem is that their neighbours need an enemy and have taken money from the Japanese for so very long. It has built up both countries infrastructures even when it was not needed. Let the dogs lie. Japan has done enough and the only thing I wish from them is to teach the things that they did in their history books in schools.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I thought the German government had asked China to refrain from making the Berlin trip the stage for another anti-Japanese rant. But I guess such common courtesy was too much to expect from the Chinese Politbureau.

Well said Willi. And this latest round of foolishness coming only days after some flunky named Hong had complained that Japan was constantly going around bad-mouthing PRC on the international stage.

I swear they must put dumb pills in the water supply at CCP meetings.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

It is about time that China publicizes her dark historical defeat and sufferings instead of keeping quiet for decades out of shame. Smaller nations in Asia have kept quiet because of the US and Japanese economic clout. Next year Singapore celebrates her 50th independence. For sure, the events in WW2 will be highlighted so as to remind the population that war is cruel and Singapre has to be prepared. Surely then Japan will not ask Singaporeans to forget Sook Ching when 20% of Singaporean Ethnic Chinese males were brutally tortured and slaughtered. If you are ashamed of the actions, then why do it in the first place!

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Japan has never officially denied that the massacre took place.

Well, many Japanese politicians did (up to the level of cabinet minister). And they have never been fired by the LDP government for denial of war crimes. Even the LDP party itself is founded by a group of top WWII criminals, fascists and Yakuza godfathers with the money (including drug money) that they plundered from China.

The fact is these top WWII criminals were released from the Sugamo prison not because they were clean but because they were fiercely anti-communists and were deemed to be useful for US's cold-war and for suppressing the influential Japanese leftists, that's socialists. One of such top WWII criminals who were released by the US government even became the prime minister of Japan. He is the grandfather of Shinzo Abe, Kishi Nobusuke who was also known as the monster of Showa (1926 to 1989) and monster of ManChukuo (Manchuria of China).

On the national level, out of the hundreds or thousands of war crimes that Japan committed, the only war crime that it has admitted is comfort women or military sex slaves. However, even admitting to one war crime is unbearable for the current fascist government and that's the reason why they are bent on revising the statements that were issued in the 1990s which admitted to the crime.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

If you look at the history, the real problem is how U.S. handle the peace treaty after the WWII. PRC's Zhou Enlai supported the Soviet proposal that all states that participated with their armed forces against Japan should prepare the treaty. Instead, the U.S. had monopolized the task to exclude China. Why did the U.S. wanted to exclude China in 1951 SF Treaty? On the surface of course the Communist Party was now in power and U.S. and Chinese troops were fighting each other in Korea. But Britain also had troops in Korea and yet was prepared to invite the PRC to the conference. It was actually the Soviet Union that was behind the North Korean attack on the south, yet the U.S. permitted the Soviet Union actively to participate in the conference. China suffered the longest and the deepest from Japanese aggression. The SF Treaty divided China with numerous other territorial disputes that the U.S. used in justifying its continuing presence in the region.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Abe administration has no right to complain about China criticizing Japan's past aggressions and current stance of denying to accept nor atone it's past. It's shameless enough to deny History... Abe admin should not further embarrass itself by ignoring the History completely in front of the World.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The result of the U.S. role in the occupation after the WWII and in controlling the treaty process, one of the most pernicious aspects of the occupation was that the Asian people who had suffered most from Japan's depredations, the Chinese, Koreans, Indonesians, and Filipinos had no serious role, no influential presence at all in the defeated land. They became invisible. Asian contributions to defeating the JIA , they were displaced by an all-consuming focus on the U.S. victory in the Pacific War. U.S. fully nurtured Japan's dual identity by aligning it with the West and alienating it from Asia.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

There is no reason for today's Japan to be defending the Tojo era. To do so says it supports that era. Germany would be a good place to say, well that was then but Japan isn't invading nations. Ironic that the Japan government misses this opportunity and cannot leave history behind and only reinforces its malaise

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Japan definitely could more for the historical issues. The main problem is obviously the education. Most Japanese remain ignorant of just how much devastation they brought to the Asian region. It changed the entire Asia is to say the least. Sure, it has paid some money to the victim nations. But it has not done enough to say, completely purge the right wing class A war criminals from the government office, for example. It has not stopped electing any politicians that keep denying the war atrocities. It has not brought any serious national discussions about the past war and its responsibilities. Just because some politicians apologized, isn't enough. There hasn't been enough things done to fully take responsibilities for its past.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

There are a couple of things wrong with the Japanese response. First, it's probably true that the Japanese killed that many Chinese. Even if it's an inflated number it's based in fact.

Second, Japan needs to take the high road and just not respond to this kind of trolling. It just makes the J-gov look like they're still denying the past. At this point it's not worth getting into. Japan was wrong in the 1900s.

Better to point out that Japan has moved on and it's China who is wrong today.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

sfjp330Apr. 01, 2014 - 04:34AM JST The result of the U.S. role in the occupation after the WWII and in controlling the treaty process, one of the most >pernicious aspects of the occupation was that the Asian people who had suffered most from Japan's depredations, the >Chinese, Koreans, Indonesians, and Filipinos

Yes the Chinese, Indonesians, Filipinos had their countries invaded. But Korea was part of the Japanese Empire since 1910 and 240,000 Koreans were serving willingly in the Imperial Japanese armed forces. That there was an anti-colonial movement in Korea and that South Korea has re-written it's history and denied it's role in WWII does not justify putting Korea on the same list as those invaded countries.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@CH3CHO "When a city is occupied, occupying army kill the hiding soldiers in the city. That is called mopping up operation".

A civilised army doesn't shoot prisoners. Japan not only murdered prisoners, it dissected some alive. How many Chinese prisoners of the Japanese survived the war? With its abominable behaviour from 1933-45 and, crucially, its lack of humility thereafter Japan still has no right to complain when China mentions things like the Nanjing massacre.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Yes the Chinese, Indonesians, Filipinos had their countries invaded. But Korea was part of the Japanese Empire since 1910 and 240,000 Koreans were serving willingly in the Imperial Japanese armed forces. That there was an anti-colonial movement in Korea and that South Korea has re-written it's history and denied it's role in WWII does not justify putting Korea on the same list as those invaded countries.

None of us will know the truth. It happened way before we were born. Surely this info seemed to come straight from Japanese textbook.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why dont people promote individual freedom - i.e. liberty, instead of democracy? Democracy means one group can control another group with concentrated power. Why do people need concentrated power in the form of central planning?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We were just patient what Chinese and Korean says for long. Because Japanese was thinking "Just sees future, but don't forget any wars don't have any justice. And that's BITOKU (美徳) "We say nothing to others. We just think only own selves points of having to introspection." . We don't like to blame others without seeing not good things in own. And we were known they KNEW we are quiet. But it's time we can't patient anymore about their acts and words. I couldn't patent it anymore since when I saw Korean's acts on YouTube they made the flag in Japanese "Congratulations Japanese got the BIG earthquake, we are happy about it!" in the middle of the game of soccer/football in Japan and Korea. They are too much, because they knew Japanese quiet always. We had the war with all Asian countries. But why only China and Korean still says badly about Japan, even they made stories or make the story beggest than truth. Where is a country who has been a big help to many countries economies and high technology for a long, long time (since after the war) without takes anything from them? And we were saying for long. We apologized many times to them. Where is the country like Japan? We were never stop the help to them, EVEN NOW. That's the Japanese way we like the spirit "INTOKU-陰徳" as "Just help others with don't say we helped!. Because we won't help in getting orders to obtain praise." Even MANY other Asian countries also knew China says lie about the island things too, because they always start to say suddenly "That's our island." Vietnam, Philippines's, and others too! Korean never accepts go to the international court about the island problem, too. Even we are ALWAYS saying "Let's this problem on the international court, and be clear this problem." since so long time ago! How many times and for a long time they made the story?  http://web.archive.org/web/20070105003810/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1135368.stm I was shocked BBC still put this page on the web... the thing of result was from Korean studens. But the thing the judgement on international, they made the answer it's not true and dismissed it August 27, 2002. At the time, there were also many normal Japanese in China. And many Japanese come and back to between in China and Japan. Why the only Japanese didn't get the sickness then?? But we like Chinese people. Because we know normal Chinese never care about like these things. We know normal Chinese people are really kind people. Just don't like the Chinese government. They must stop persecuting to other races, immediately. And we want to say also to the Korean government that did you apologize and helped to people about Geochang incident, Ganghwa Ryomin massacre, Go Dai massacre, Tay Vinh massacre, Ha My massacre, Phong Nhat massacre, Hoshirube League incident, MOSTLY Lai Dai Han People? ... I think I am foolish now, but wrote these things because I really wanted to say "we have to see the future and start to walk together for making the peace world, also for the people in the world who died from the stupid war..... And there is never justice in anyone in any country.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dear Xi Jinping, re countries invading countries - 430,000 Tibetans have died in the Chinese invasion, during the Uprising and the subsequent 15 years of guerrilla warfare by Chinese Authorities... Hypocrite!......AGAIN! Has Japan every brought up that atrocity? No, they NOT like yourself, show LOW Class when it comes to diplomacy!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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